Why Do Game Companies Do This?
Vložit
- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- ► Follow me!
𝕏 ►► x.com/@MichaelNROH
📷 Instagram ►► / @michaelnroh
🐘 Mastodon ►► mastodon.social/@MichaelNROH
🤖 Discord ►► / discord
#️ Matrix ►► matrix.to/#/#michaelnroh-community:matrix.org
▶️ Second Channel ►► / nr0hofficial
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
► Get exclusive benefits by joining our Community ❤️
Join ►► / @michaelnroh
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
► Links:
My Server Parts ►► amzn.to/43Y7441
Personal Affiliate ►► amzn.to/48S3a0e
(* All Amazon Links are affiliated. That means that I get a small cut of revenue if you buy something, without any additional costs.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🎵 Music from StreamBeats by Harris Heller.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
► Chapters:
00:00 - Apex Legends broke on Linux again
00:39 - Valve to the rescue
01:31 - They are not alone
02:23 - What Game Companies do wrong
04:35 - Why I like gaming on Linux
05:15 - Gaming Then vs Now
06:03 - Gate-keeping with Anti Cheats
08:04 - Why Kernel-Level Anti Cheats are bad
09:13 - Conclusion
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
► Description Tags:
apex legends linux, apex legends linux ban, gaming on linux, linux anti cheat, linux gaming anti cheat, linux gaming 2024, steam deck third party launcher, steam third party launcher, linux vs windows gaming, steam ubisoft connect, steam ea games not launching, michael horn
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#linux #gaming #opensource - Hry
System76 getting onto normal retailers would be HUGE for Linux adoption!
That I think would be huge
They still build computers on demand. They have no store shelf. Anywhere.
The company is growing. I wouldn't expect to find a System76 machine at Best Buy any time soon (5+ years)
Would be nice to see Canonical or Red Hat to invest in that space to give it a push. But just like Nvidia seemingly ignoring the consumer space, they do it aswell mostly because the big comapnies simple get them more money than a simple consumer
@@IC3P3 Fore sure! Red Hat has pushed well on the server side, but the desktop has basically not been pushed at all
I think people understatements how important this is. As someone who uses System76, I think people would get a different opinion of Linux pretty much overnight if System76 started taking up retail space.
The problem you described here is just the tip of the iceberg and part of MUCH larger fundamental problem: companies do not trust open platforms.
Whether it's part of the ability to play games, movies (and even music back then when everything needed to be DRM protected) or consume other digital content users of the open platforms are always cheaters and thieves in the eyes of the content companies. This is due to a fact that the companies have very limited control on what the end users ultimately do on a open platform compared to closed platforms.
1000% this. Truer words have never been spoken
DRM in general is a whole different issue. Copying and distributing content can be done in the same way like on proprietary Operating Systems.
The difference is, that on proprietary ones, they cooperate more when it comes to feeding information from browser to the drivers to the consumer and vice versa.
The thing is, that it doesn't matter in the end. Its not easier to pirate stuff on Linux, but you might get faster access to the resources needed for it
@@MichaelNROH "Copying and distributing content can be done in the same way like on proprietary Operating Systems."
Technically I think you are right but that is unfortunately the whole picture. Recently Rouis Rossmann made a good observation how streaming companies refuse to deliver anything over low quality 720p content without even bothering to state anything about it: Linux does not have "protected content path" for the video and unlikely never will have as long things are kept open.
Reality is that these technical measures help as much against piracy as kernel level anticheat helps against cheating but as long as the companies think that these measures are the minimum accepted level we will get the short stick no matter even if Linux were ten times faster and worked perfectly with all devices out of the box.
We have reached the point with Linux where this has become a political issue and not a technical one.
Fortunately there's a light of hope around these dark clouds. Like I mentioned that music used to be part of this DRM hell (as absurd as it might sound now we were on route to lose all audio playback capability in the name of "plugging the analog hole" for a while) and now it's not a problem anymore.
That's just cap. For a DMA card or computer vision based SBC solution (you surely heard about that MSI monitor with capability to load a vision ai), every system is an open platform. The majority of legit Valorant cheaters already uses such solutions. The fact, that they're cheating "legit", also explains why many people think, that the cheating problem is way better on Valorant. Riot also pushes this myth by publishing "look, we win our war against cheaters"-statistics (they wouldn't just fake those, just for the sweet money, wouldn't they) and censoring critical posts on social media, wherever they can, but especially on Reddit. PlayStation and Xbox got this Cronus Zen ban, still people are using comparable devices just fine, because Sony and Microsoft didn't invent a new peripheral protocol and USB device spoofing just can't be stopped.
Serverside ai enhanced anticheat is still a few years away from being able to be operated at scale, due to operational costs. It's sadly the only solution, because clientside anticheat will always be able to be tricked. A basic principle of it security is "don't trust the client", but somehow this didn't made it into gaming companies except Valve for example. Yes, obvious cheating is bad in CS2, but they choose to not lie to me and i rather know if i lost because of a cheater or because i got outplayed. Difference is, they are actively trying to solve this problem for the long run. This sadly has the consequence, that they have to let cheaters play for a longer time, to collect necessary data for the training of the ai model.
I feel this has less to do with trust and more to do with monetization.
As a security professional both Mac and Linux kernels have moved away from hacking the kernels directly (which windows allows). These techniques used by anti-cheat look just like a professional hack by a sophisticated attacker. These bizarre techniques don’t survive the kernel updates and they obviously don’t translate. They are hard to maintain over time. Good luck if you want to play a game in 10 years with one of these.
Unfortunately the whole idea of a "live service multiplayer game" is that the game with all your dedicated time and money will eventually be flushed down the toilet as the game killed so you can pushed to the next game and be forced to start all over again without an option to go back to the old game.
Multiplayer game companies have taken close look and made very detailed notes what happened to Payday 3 when this transition is not "executed properly".
You can still use DKMS modules on Linux if you want to add anything to the kernel. Oh shoot, hope I don't give any of the anticheat companies any ideas…
@@xard64I'm out of the loop. Tell me more about Payday 3
@@MrGamelover23 Well, there's not that much to tell besides what the Steam statistics tell.
When writing this 24h player peak on Steam:
Payday 2: 34667 players
Payday 3: 518 players
And you have to remember that Payday 2 is over decade old game at this point.
Ubisoft or EA - straight to trash
@dreaper5813 I stay away from releases from all these companies. Yet, there are many many games that I can play.
@dreaper5813Blud, described the entire concept of gacha games.💀💀💀
As a Software Engineer, My opinion is that Kernel level anti-cheat and client side anti-cheat was a mistake, any anti-cheat should be on the server side!
Any client side anti-cheat can be cracked, you can write yourself the EAC and mimic the real one!
But a server side anti-cheat is harder to make and needs to be modify to any change in the game, and you need to know how the game works to implement it!
The thing is, that you can't really leave a client unattended though. Server side Anti-Cheat is great for finding obvious cheats like unusual locations, firerates, etc., but with a good visual analyzer program (in the future maybe even AI assisted), there is no way to ban softlocks.
it's not like anyone relies exclusively on clientside anticheat, almost any game will be using both (clientside anticheat doesn't mean you can trust the client!) most games will use clientside anticheat just as a tool in their toolbox alongside other methods of detection
Unless you're rendering the video and audio on the server side, several classes of videogames can't rely on just server side anti-cheat.
Think Counter Strike.
The client is supposed to render positional audio of subtle enemy footsteps and gun noises that the player must be carefully listening for. Even if the network protocol only had the positional audio events, a cheating client could abuse that information to explicitly alert the user to the enemy's proximity and direction.
For graphics rendering, you've got your typical wallhacks. Even if you minimize data relevaled to the client, a cheating client could still give an edge by highlighting an enemy's presence just before they become visible. The client needs enemy positions to render subtle stuff like shadows.
Server side anticheat requires careful integration with the game design and might be fundamentally incompatible with some types of games. Client side anticheat, on the other hand, might not even require integration with the game design at all. Much more reusable and it generally frees the game designers and developers to do whatever with little regard to cheating, because that's handled by someone else.
Linux to me has potential and it can change the world
its thebenchmark for the open source projects
It already did, look at your telephone, it is very likely that if you dont use apple, it is using android, a modified linux. And it is also likely that we wouldn't have internet like we know it today if it were'nt for linux
@@alejandroespalter2601well all of the servers including this CZcams comment which is in a server is running Linux.
100% of the top 500 supercomputers in the world use Linux. Most mobile devices use Linux (with android). Most servers hosting your data and the websites you visit use Linux...it has definitely changed the world already. The only domain where Linux is not dominating the market is personal computers.
@@hyperplanoi want to see which supercomputer doesnt use linux how
can u use anyother os then custom built linux on the supercomputers
I am one of those who was not unbanned. Arch Linux KDE Plasma Xorg session and Proton GE compatibility layer. 500+ hours wasted, even though my ban was revoked (the ban status became "overturned") I somehow got a second ban anyway, without even logging into Apex Legends or the EA App at that moment. EA's help does not help, community managers are silent on the EA forum. And I filed 7 or 8 appeals with evidence and all to no avail.
Who are you?
Chargeback
Any company thats foing to go out of their way to deny linux players isn't worth my time or money. I refuse to accept any reason to not be playable on steam deck that isn't related to hardware power. Sure i have a windows PC, but thats not going to be a guaranteed future.
Save money whenever possible.
That is why Valve may do the heavy lifting with part of the userbase being test subject for 3rd parties.
My son plays Roblox and I had just got it running on our main computer under Linux when the developers decided to explicitly ban Linux users (they put a check in for Wine). The reasons given were that Linux was being used for cheating, which is ridiculous since the vast majority of players are on Windows and that is where most (if not all) of the cheating is done. My point is that some compatibility issues might not just be down to a lack of testing but actually intentional ! to stifle Linux as a gaming platform.
It aint worth their time to support minority. They make decisions based on returns, not emotional
But they need to make money some how and most games have micro transactions how else are they supposed to keep up with their updates etc.Dont forget that it’s the devs that make games on Roblox who also need a fair share of pay.If you got some money I think it’s fair to waste it on a game you like and get a cool skin etc.Also it’s to help new devs out and allow them to make even higher quality games if the kid wants to play Roblox let him
Play Roblox😭😂
@@dreaper5813i play geometry dash, which has zero micro transactions 🗿
Roblox is horrible BTW, dont let your son play that, as its getting more explicit now
I'm rooting for Linux to get more share in the PC Market, and for Linux gaming to flourish.
WINE was the start, and SteamOS (along with Proton for other distros) have further proved Linux can be used for Gaming.
It's all up to the developers of major titles to take note and make games compatible with Proton/SteamOS and WINE.
Or better yet, make official Linux ports that spare new Linux users the effort to get their games running right through WINE/Proton
@@dreaper5813 I agree that the whole push for Micro-Transactions in modern games is not the best for gaming. Maybe it works well with Free-To-Play games from smaller developers (as to allow players to support smaller devs, as long as the Micro-Transactions don't give paid players an edge), but with most major developers it's all about getting rich players to have an edge over free players. This is something that needs to stop. Only game I provided my money through Micro-Transactions was Warframe, as that game has a fair Micro-Transaction system which all content (aside from special cosmetics) is accessible through free activity. Even paid currency (Platinum) can be obtained free through trading with others.
Also I agree with the delayed patches issue, more players will invest in a game if the game is stable on release and patched as soon as issues arise. This is especially a thing that needs to be prioritized when it's an online-focused game (no matter casual or competitive). Triple-A Devs need to focus on stability over just making a quick buck, if they ignore stability and item stat imbalance issues (especially when linked to weapons devs add as Micro-Transactions exclusives) more players will leave the franchise as a whole. Once they claim to fix their flaws, most players will still be hesitant until independent player reviews claim it's better. If stability issues can be solved and more Triple-A devs can support Linux, things will be better for the Linux users as a whole.
Things won't change in a single day, but the more players show their disinterest in the developer's current actions and ditch their games (costing the devs precious money) the more they will be forced to consider changes that benefit both the company and the players they are targeting.
@dreaper5813 Bingo!
Here is the thing for me, the PS5 sold around 30 million units last I recall, maybe 40s now that it's been a bit, but tbh I'm pretty sure everyone is just guestimating values anyway, so as long as we're in the ballpark it shouldn't matter. The steamdeck sales figures are similarly hard to get exact values for, but we have had "multiple millions" confirmed explicitly and estimates generally float around 2-4 million. (keep in mind, many of these estimates are pre-OLED, and the OLED also sold exceptionally well from what I'm aware of)
So, the PS5's 30 million sales are sufficient for studios to create entire AAA platform-exclusive games like God of War, but 10% of that isn't sufficient to do some touch-ups to play nice with proton/wine?
That math just doesn't add up, and it gets even worse once you consider that Steamdeck users likely play more than other console users since it's decently portable and convenient while still offering both true AAA and indie games. Additionally, ever since the Steamdeck took off it brought Proton/Wine with it, with them now being able to outperform windows in many cases, many people (including myself) that explicitly did not switch to linux because they also play games have/are able to now. In other words, the Deck selling well lowers the barrier of entry to Linux as a whole, it's not *_just_* the direct deck sales. Now, in fairness, I will grant that I think using Apex Legends as a comparison here is probably not great since Apex Legends is an exclusively online competitive shooter where being able to see small shapes, flick to them accurately and quickly, and dodge are all relevant along with having a consistent and fast internet connection, so the percentage of steam deck players is probably near nil. Even so, when the game already works fine and just needs the libraries it's practically free to support linux and you do still get more players so, while not great rhetorically, it's certainly still a valid point.
edit : also, I've mentioned it before, but we really should just use observing server side anticheats. You can block some of the script kiddies client side, and I can see the argument for having *_some_* client side anticheat as a result, but at the end of the day if you're trusting the users to not send manipulated data you're doing something wrong. For instance to measure ESP you can measure the average/median/standard-deviation absolute angle that the player is looking relative to other players; normal players will have one value since they don't know where anyone is, but cheating players will see and know where other players are and want to keep them on-screen so that they can follow them, and that's a difference that could be tracked. Obviously I'm not saying to blindly swing the ban-hammer around here, but my point is cheaters play differently, why are we not looking at how they play? You could even do a semi-random sampling where most players in a given match aren't even having the data recorded, but if one player who is get's suspicious data they're more likely to be watched in the next match. (or tie this into the player reporting system) Will this stop any given person cheating in any given match? No, that's where we would want client-side anticheat. However, is that really what we care about? When you're annoyed with the cheaters, are you annoyed that specific people are cheating in this specific match? No, you're generally annoyed by the amount of cheaters in the general player population and match-heuristics are able to detect and eliminate that problem. Now, when we start talking E-sports and stuff, yeah, then that complicates the conversation, but that's not what 99% of players care about.
I believe the issue with game compatibility on Linux is, that its a PC plattform at the end of the day.
The big game publishers probably target "true console" experiences much earlier, since they can probably argue for some benefits, whilst also making it for difficult to crack games.
The PC gaming market in general is not as popular as it used to be. Whilst still most games feature a PC release, there are more games than ever that were definitely built for controller.
One game that felt really awkward to play for a couple of hours was Star Wars: Fallen Order since the mouse felt somewhat sluggish.
It think that PC gaming in general is slowly becoming less attractive for publishers, and supporting another OS is probably not worth it at the moment. But Proton would technically solve this anyway
They either simply don't care or don't understand. The solution to this would be to stop playing games that don't work on Linux or Deck, and the community being extremely vocal about it. If you know someone who owns a Steam Deck but is not a technical person, make them post on forums if a game they want to play is unavailable. Persuade them to play games that work on Deck. These companies will not support if there's no significant and measurable amount of money in it.
@@aaronplays_ I mean that'd accelerate it, but tbh I find it real hard to believe this is an issue that isn't already being solved by natural market dynamics. Almost every new game I've seen has been proton-compatible, silver or gold at the minimum. It's only the old games still riding off of inertia that are holding out for the most part, but going forward that sorta thinking just doesn't work out.
When supporting proton is borderline free, it's just going to boost player numbers and sales with no significant costs, so it's a pretty easy choice from a business perspective. Only the people so far up the top they've overflowed up their own ass are refusing to see it, and when you're outright refusing what is basically free money, you're not gonna stay at the top for long. (especially as proton is getting good enough now to run games faster than windows with objective technical advantages.)
@@robonator2945 I know single-player games are supported well. I was talking about multiplayer games. Encourage and inform people about multiplayer games are supported on Proton.
Usually people who play multiplayer games do it either because of quick rounds, or because they like to grind the rewards, ranks etc. So I tell them that they can play on PC when at home and get some quick plays on Steam Deck when outside.
"New games with anti cheat usually does not work"... Helldivers 2 would like a word with you.. xD
Just don't support game devs that are Apple or Microsoft elitists.
There's nothing elite about Microsoft :P
It annoys me so much that Linux has these issues. It is the only reason I have not gone full on Linux.
@@dreaper5813 I agree and do pretty much the same tbh. I am primarily a retro gamer and indie gamer. I only play a few newer triple A titles. However, I am also a fighting game player and Dragon Ball FighterZ doesn't work in online matches.
I also like to play a few shooters with my friends, but I won't be able to play all of them. I still plan on trying to go full Linux when I build my next PC, and see if I can overcome limitations.
But I am glad to see opinions like this. There are way too few that has this mindset.
@@dreaper5813 dragon ball fighterz is more of a Marvel VS Capcom game and nothing like other Dragon Ball games, so the PS2 releases doesn't cut that for me.
I have researched how nVidia works for Linux these days through thelinuxexperiment, Seong Seong and Michael Horn and these days, nVidia does work very well.
@@dreaper5813 then you haven't played DBFZ. DBFZ doesn't play like Kakarot. Kakorot doesn't play like Budokai, Budokai doesn't play like Legacy of Goku.
They are centered around fighting in some form, but they play drastically different within the same story of Dragon Ball.
If I remember correctly in the 90s many Games had the Linux Logo on the Case.
Game Devs should finally focus on Linux to not be depended on Windows/MS
That's why Proton exists. It's becoming a bridge for Gamers and once the market moves, devs will consider Linux more
As someone who has been hit by one of the ban waves: No, I've not been unbanned. I hate EA for this. I was indeed unbanned for a day or so, until being banned again, for cheating. I haven't even played in that time period. They have handled this horribly.
@dreaper5813 I do have some of those games with Micro-Transactions, but often rarely play them. One exception for a good game which is run by Microsoft (actually Mojang, but Microsoft's property) is Minecraft. I sometimes play Fortnite, but only to have some fun with friends. If this ban issue can't get resolved, I will just avoid buying anything from EA ever again.
@dreaper5813 My only game I bought from them is Need for Speed Most Wanted.
@dreaper5813 Yeah. I hate the fact he is against supporting Linux.
I really get annoyed with anti-cheat that uses a kernel driver. These give the anti-cheat direct access to all your hardware and software, and all of your files. They can sell info about you to a third party, they can ban you for having ANY pirated software or for using mods for other games, they can theoretically narc on you to your government for arbitrary things they don't like, etc. And the worst part, is that this creates a potential exploit to your system. These kernel driver anti-cheats are connected to the internet, and essentially create a back door into your system that can be exploited by others, even if there are no bugs in the anti-cheat, and if there are bugs, they now open a new chain attack surface, and to fix you need to reinstall Windows.
Windows players themselves doesn't like anticheat kernel level , cause it mess with system level and cause deep errors that can even break your system if not the hardware , so by this perspective i did leave a game that i used to paly for years since i did know they coming to use an anticheat and im not the only one , a lot of people as i remember did decide to leave the game , cause the engine anti cheat had bad reputation in other plateform , (off topic :btw i use both linux and windows , and i did take a step to learn libre office so i can easly use it both in windows and linux in the future, and who know i can switch completely without relying on windows installed physicly or virtually) ... keep up the good work i appreciate your videos
It's a love / hate relationship I guess.
When I used to play Valorant, I wasn't happy with the AC they use, but I was still more happy about how much less Cheaters there were in Valorant.
The story changed over the years, and back when it releaesed there were less Cheat providers anyway
I know people who run Windows, who simply avoid games with kernel level anti-cheats due to not exactly trusting them.
Many don't, but on the other hand you also e.g have legions of people begging valve to add that sort of stuff to counter-strike 2 (just see any yt comment section/reddit thread about that game). People are willing to put up with a lot because they think it will result in less cheating.
I've never understood why multiplayer games are coded in a way where you can do things like speed hack and wallhack. Why is the server even sharing the data to do that, we have occlusion when it comes to rendering games, but not when transmitting location data to players. And you should not be allowed to break the rules of the game.
As for things like aimbots, it's game over now with machine learning. You don't have to run the cheat on the hardware playing the game. It's gonna be rife for console players in the not too distant future.
I combat this issue by not playing online games and not buying Triple A Western garbage.
When valve release an official SteamOS installer to the public, do you think we will see more gaming devices shipped with SteamOS and how much do you think it'll help with the linux market?
I know the handhelds would gravitate towards SteamOS since as far as I'm aware, windows isn't built for handhelds in mind.
Depends on how they release it. Valve has probably some measures in Place that someone else can't ship SteamOS like on a "Steam Machine" and market it that way.
Generally speaking, I think that we will see more Linux devices overall, especially in countries where consoles are more expensive. If Proton handles the job as well as a Windows machine, then you can cut back a lot on hardware if you optimize it a bit
its horrible when the anticheat supports linux but the game company doesnt implement the changes
It's a shame that Roblox are being an arse with Linux. My sons once again banned from Roblox for the crime of using Linux
Larger companies hosting multiplayer games have already made it crystal clear that if we use open operating systems we and out money are not welcome.
Roblox is trash dont play it
Servers don't need to catch the cheaters in real time, if it's a week after the fact scanning and flagging client data can be effective. Online chess has some form of cheater rollback and it's as easy as having an NPC give a quest where players can get the stuff/points/whatever back to more than undo the negative effects the cheaters had. The trackmania and doom speed running communities have shown that all the servers needs is a record of the user input/demo file, unfair play is impossible to hide. The cheats become part of the game's control loop, the user's input changes as a result of whatever the cheat does the cheat either runs before(xray) or after(aim bot). In both cases the reported player input is suspiciously different than it should be. player going to correct way too often or cursor tracking players through walls == xray. If the player can't use the xray to choose what path to take or to look at the corner another player is behind, it's "worth less." Also do you really think a person can play for hours with an xray and not once suspiciously track another player? The mouse data not perfectly natural == aim assist. Same concept if the mouse moves from one place in game space to another and doesn't always do so as if a human would it's easy to spot while at the same time if the mouse always moves naturally the cheat isn't able to perform its one and only duty of controlling the mouse.
I'm a programmer who hasn't written many games, but I've written more than 3 and one could be considered a FPS. I also ran a Q3 server back in the 00s.
I love your videos Michael! I have played Detroit Become Human on PopOS but have yet to get WarZone to work, if I could get my games to work on Linux I would run Linux full time!
Warzone, or COD in general, is one of those games that will probably enable support once the market grows.
@@MichaelNROH Older Call of duty games like black ops 3 work really well from my experience. I just play modded zombies with my friends so I don't know about the competitive side. It does suck how newer call of duty games are borked though even if I wouldn't buy or play them myself personally.
Great video, main purpose is to keep Windows as a gaming box OS for a regular user base, similar to the way O365 suite makes Windows or macOS a must for any company and Linux stays on the server side.
As a Linux user had to just gave up on gaming on Linux, because all the newest AAA titles that have kernel level DRM at launches are either borked or play poorly on launch dates and even 4-8 years down the line, just look at RE series that still have like a Gold rating on protondb and usually require something like custom proton GE and other tinkering to get working.
As for MP games like Fortnite/Destiny 2/Rainbow Six Siege/Valorant or LoL they are still have no proper Linux support because of Anticheat and Battleye DRM that acts like malware.
The only games that play well with Linux are much older ones and some still require some tinkering.
Not to say that there are not any problems with Windows gaming, you also need to apply a bunch of fixes/workarounds, when playing older games on Windows. Still Linux is much better in gaming than it used to be, thanks to Valve mostly. Mainstream community supported Linux distributions are very good for cybersecurity and privacy and general day to day, because unlike Windows you don't have to deal with background telemetry and apps hogging up system resources or annoying forced updates that break everything every 2-3 weeks.
Speaking on gaming on Linux, Intel Arc drivers still don't have DGC needed by newer games like starfield as Red/Green/ and Arc Windows all have this vulkan extension.
This is a side effect of game publishers gutting their QA departments and pushing everything on their code guys. The end user has become the QA and they are garbage at it.
@@dreaper5813 I respect singleplayer games a lot. Indies have been really popping off lately and even games like Slay The Spire and Hades are really fun even if they are a couple years old at this point.
I still play World of Warcraft, mainly on the classic/hardcore servers, but will pop onto retail from time to time. The last great Blizzard title I can remember was Heroes of the Storm.
AAA requiring mtx and battlepasses can SMD.
@@dreaper5813 DnD inspired games have kept to a no-mtx model for the time being. Baldur's Gate 3 included. It's also playable on Linux/Steam Deck.
@@dreaper5813 "no-mtx" is "no micro transactions" "DnD" is "Dungeons and Dragons"
Hades and Slay the Spire do not have micro transactions either.
true true, i agree with your statements
❤
I was happy while pvz warfare 2 didn't have anti cheat at least they were nice enough not to ban me just by trying to run it on steam os
I see this a lot. They update just the launcher and it breaks.
My dream anticheat solution would be verified kernel builds and a generic anti-tampering API that anticheat software can hook into. It could have a permission system similar to Flatpak where access to things like private files can be restricted. Of course ideally we would have no anticheat at all, but this is the next best thing.
Give me your profile pic : )
Honestly i think its better to just use server side anticheats even with a locked down kernel cheaters bypass it with custom hardware
I had the same issue about 1 week ago. I deleted the game and manually deleted all files, reinstalled with default steam settings (no manual proton selection) - game works fine again.
It’s possible that people will also get sick of the spyware that windows and Mac keep baking into the OS or if they full on embrace an OS as a subscription service. People will flock to Linux.
@@dreaper5813in my case ,i was getting sick and tired of windows updates constantly screwing my pc and adding useless features, not to mention always ending up slow to do anything
decided to try linux (Manjaro, Arch-based) and just learn to be comfortable with it even if i don't have any experience with terminal coding
Windows 7 was the peak, and it should have stayed that way if it was going to be this garbage its becoming (Windows 11)
Can you make a video on what DE is best for touchscreen KDE or GNOME? Can you make a side by side comparison? Thanks!
Side by side might be hard as it takes a lot of filming, but yes I will try out more Desktop Environments with a Touchscreen
If you're working with some x86 tablet (no keyboard/mouse, only touchscreen), use Phosh. It's very minimal, but it suits as a good mobile GUI.
For those laptops with touchscreens, I haven't noticed KDE or GNOME being better than the other, atleast on Wayland. Just use whatever one you're already familiar with.
I have issues with Ubisoft launcher with it not saving credentials and with it moving on its own over the screen
I have to boot up my classic gaming i7-2600/GTX 960 machine to play Halo MCC online, as I run ChimeraOS or Debian 12 on my main machines and it’s the only one with Win10. It’s quite annoying, but thankfully I don’t have much of a social life so it doesn’t come up often :P
It’s funny to hear people saying “why doesn’t Apex do this?” when I’ve been playing it for over four years and therefore have had to endure Respawn’s criminally high threshold for fixing any issue.
Anti Cheat systems are basically rootkits
I wouldn't be surprised if it was because EAC isn't in the in-house version, and while they test on Linux, they might forget to test on Linux with EAC.
It honestly just feels like EA like breaking linux support. This is like a couple of month cycle since the new EA app 🙃 edit: Valve are the ones who keep fixing EA games on linux in proton hot fixes
How does Valve not know there is an update being pushed?
How should they?
If a Game dev pushes a patch and just releases it there is nothing they can do. Additionally, Steam gets so many new games per day, so they can't just monitor them
@@MichaelNROH Not sure how steam games are published, but at least something is pushed through valve's database to all the steam clients. I'm sure they can hook up an email alert for the top steamdeck games in each category.
Resident Evil 4 became unplayable without reason, I wonder if it were caused by the anti-cheat stuff.
As a programmer its just a problem of some department just having few people the linux version is just not main focus of the company so there isnt any QC so we become so lazy to check if its working or not sorry
For the Algorithm!
PTR game mode..
Yeah, would be a shame if the companies had to slightly reduce their marketing budgets to pay for servers that could handle a server side anti-cheat.
Better to foist that work on the people who paid for the game instead.
Tell people to do something and put their names on a leaderboard, is fastest way to cheating, easiest way to catch a whale. The Chinese have all sort of leaderboards and the things they would do to top off the leaderboard, is unimaginable, and the context of the leaderboard itself is equally so. You either cheat to get on the leaderboard, or cheat to get off the leaderboard depends on what the leaderboard is about, why context is so important.
Maybe we do it the Syndrome way: When everyone is cheating, no one will be. Instead of selling cosmetics and DLC or battlepass in the store, now it's selling cheat packages made by the developers themselves. As the real cheaters using third party software use stronger cheats, the devs will regularly release stronger cheat packages so players can buy and out cheat the cheaters. It sounds like a nuclear option but I am confident that it will work. No need for anti cheat, for every gamers is an anti cheat now.
In my opinion this whole cheating problem cannot be fully solved with a technical solution. Cheating has always been a social problem as much as a technical one.
Back in the late 90's and early 2000'ish communities still had the ability to host their own servers for the most games and the ecosystem itself took care of the cheaters and was built on supervision by community members and trust.
Unfortunately due to various reasons companies transitioned to the centralized model. For example without centralized server infrastructure it's hard to sell micro transactions and battlepasses.
Yes it feels like anti cheat id yhe only thing stopping proton to reach it's true potential abd just work with any game no matter for the most part. Like I bet if said kernal anti cheat was remobed from these games it would just work
If games would have a "zero trust for client" architecture and all the meaningful checks were made on server this would not be an issue. However for fast paced action games this is way easier said than done.
Well yeah true but adding a kernel level anti cheat even messes with stuff when on windows and tbh does not feel like the correct way to make a anticheat imo. Modifying the memory address positions and stuff like that would block ce and using il2cpp would stop decompiling (I only found what il2cpp is recently so please correct me if I'm wrong about it having the capability to just convert any il code)
Also I hate mobile kb so many typos bruh
@@xard64 yea and that too like fr it's them not putting enough effort into making anti cheat if they did that which imo makes way more sense and should be what all these games are doing instead of kernel level anti cheat bs
I get you mate but at the same tame we are such a niche, big companies don't have to care about their games running well on Linux.
Especially because we are running those games through a translation layer, not naively.
Anti-cheats should be server-side only in my opinion.
I think that kernel / client level AC's are a cheaper way of securing a game, as servers would have to have much, much more processing power otherwise.
my guess is that on linux *you* have the control while on windows *they* have the control
Nahh, they don't either. Microsoft is pretty hostile to their kernel actually
Michael, these last few days I was in doubt about migrating from my Windows 10 to Linux Ubuntu. I've never used Linux, and you, who are a Linux veteran, what are your tips for me to migrate from Windows 10 to Linux Ubuntu 🐧?
@@dreaper5813 🆗
Come Q4 of 2025, the migration to Linux might be increasing significantly, from what I've been learning. (RE: Windows 11)
These various game company's might want to work more closely with the Linux world. It would likely be beneficial to their profitable interests.
Kernel level anticheats just create kernel level cheats...
Why not have instead of anti cheat have the same thing but instead of being banned you only get to play with others who got detected by anti cheat?
That's not a solution, as it still affects the global leaderboards. If you exclude hack vs hack matches, then they will make a new account anyway.
I thought that they were only negligent or just ignorant on Apex Legends for Switch, but Linux having some even worse issues. :(
Developers preferred simple platforms that is why consoles and iPhones/ipad are loved by these, they barely have the energy to deal with pc on windows, they will certainly don't care about Linux and bsd ☠️
(A few examples that validates my statement is gta 6 ignoring pc at launch and hades and waframe mobile edition completely ignoring the android phone/tablet/Chromebook market because is tedious to develop for so many gpus and cpus)
Apple products are kind of a bad example to be honest. Programming for it is quite tedious due to Apple's custom stuff which you can't even test without licenses.
Making stuff for other platforms, especially Linux is way easier
@@MichaelNROH sorry mister but im not saying an opinion, what i said about Apple's iPhone is literal what a freaking developer said, just look for hades on android and why it will not be on android lmao
That is also the reason why a lot of console games are on iPhone and are skipping android right away and this has happened since freaking years ago kinda surprised you didn't knew about that
Anyway what i said about developers loving developing for a platform with not that many variants of gpu/cpu is true xd
i just play geometry dash, and idk why, but i get like 60 more fps from linux than i do from windows
They don't test it because they don't care. And in business practice, it's great. Linux gamer only cover up a small amt of revenue. So small, that setting up a testing and debugging chamber specifically for linux could potentially set them up to gaining less profit.
There's a catch 22 when it comes to usage and support of Linux. Linux doesn't get the same level of support because so few people are using it, and people don't want to move to Linux because it doesn't get the same level of support. It doesn't make sense for developers to spend time and money on a demographic that is less than 3% of their potential playerbase, and it doesn't make sense for users to switch to an operating system that so often goes neglected.
Those 4% are most likely from company usage and not gamers directly. There is just a higher potential that they get a Linux device for personal use as well. Then we are talking
@@dreaper5813since this video is about gaming, i was actually basing it on steams reported usage of linux, which is below 3%.
Why Linux users have to use proton or wine? Why game developers does not build for Linux? Popular game engines are support Linux build with vulkan api. Instead of developing Proton, Valve should have encouraged game developers to build for Linux. I think best solution for Linux gamers is Native Linux games.
native building requires money to build
not all linux users are gamers which leaves the gamers share less than 1 percent not profitable enough to do that
but kernel level linux anticheat should be preffered for linux kernel
There are several reasons.
The first one is apparent, lots of work for little payoff. There just are not many gamers on Linux yet.
Second, Linux Distros and Linux itself changes a lot, meaning that games are not self-sustaining over time unless someone patches them.
Proton is not just good for Windows compatibility, but also because it provides a more continous foundation (mainly because Windows is just old at its core).
I'm not sure you're right. Because you can see that most native Linux game builds are provided by indie developers. Are indie developers richer than big companies? In modern game engines, it is not very difficult to obtain different builds for different operating systems. I think Microsoft might be involved in this. Microsoft may be convincing big game companies to produce games just for him.
@@furkanascoglu9896That's because they're indie, AAA studios have publishers breathing down their neck and with Proton existing, the majority of people on Linux will still buy the game and you don't need to move a finger for support because the community can figure it out themselves. It's a win-win situation.
if some people were intelligent enough to play the game and not make it play by a software...
how is wayland working in gaming im too scared to test at this point
for me its been flawless
Pretty good, I'll say same as x11
same as xorg.. as in, no troubles at all..
Works flawlessly when using amd
Lots of lag when using nvidia and intel optimus
It's good but not perfect yet, as Desktop Environments still work on their compositors.
Gnome for example sometimes skips some frames which can feel like slight stuttering (only in smoothness, not in delays). The rest is pretty good, though we are yet to see the performance improvements, once Wine and Proton enable native support
Oh god no .. I dunno. Microsoft did this with their whole OS and I have to pay, for an OS, that I am also the beta-tester for, and have to get shat on by fanbois when I make a bug report.
I have fully switched to linux, but ...
I hope this doesn't become standard. I get beta testing .... I understand, but I worry corpos will just look at this as "free realestate" for beta-testing and just offload their entire QA team onto the masses. I hope not, but yea. Also, EA -> straight to the bin.
Couldn't you use AI to analyze player behavior on game servers so it can flag potential offenders? It wouldn't solve all cheating options but it might cover vast majority of cheaters.
The number of false positives would be incredibly high. Espcecially when becoming a pro.
The game server doesn't necessarily capture everything the player does. Softlocks and actual proper shots would be extremely hard to monitor
@@MichaelNROH Maybe you're right. I just thought that it could be trained on past matches with known cheaters. I feel like if it can detect people's faces better than humans can it seems like it could flag potential cheaters that are worth further investigation.
Anti-Cheats won't stop cheaters. The only thing that can do it is the threat of going to prison.
🤣🤣good luxk woth that
Prison is near impossible since you haven't actually commited a crime per say.
Even money penalties can easily be circumvented with false registrations.
I guess what it will eventually lead up to is an actual age verification via passport (or similar) so that they can get you.
Not in the context of cheating, but restricting access to minors in general. This way, cheating becomes a lot harder as well, since if you try to fake your identity, then it is an actual crime
@@MichaelNROH If it was possible to make downloading files from the internet a crime, potentially it will be possible to do the same thing with cheating, which could be seen as devaluing developers' work.
Seriously getting windows (most popular computer software on this planet) for free is war crime, and at same time making games unplayable is... nothing special just put easy anty cheat to your game bro...
Finding cheaters will be easier task than finding "music stealers"
Honestly, if you want to play any online game, I'd recommend you to just dual boot Windows and Linux. It's way better than to go through the hassle of setting up the game and being fearful of your account getting banned. It also separates the work and the gaming environment which is great for productivity in my opinion.
I hated dual boot tbh.
Even though it just took a few seconds, you lose disk space and need to setup both environments with your credentials (Web browsing, etc.).
I personally like having an all in one solution, since games don't distract me but are well planned pauses between workflows. Having to reboot everytime I quickly want to play 2 rounds of a game and continue working is really annyoing to me.
But workflows are very different
@@MichaelNROH Interesting.
disappointed you used the reposted 100 times video about kernel anti-cheats as a point against kernel-level anti cheats. the point of an anti-cheat isnt to eliminate cheating entirely as that is not practical, but it is supposed to make cheating that much of a hassle that it reduces the number significantly. DMA cheats cost a lot of money, like you said - this will reduce the number of cheaters by itself.
Tim Sweeney talks about making the industry developer friendly and giving them more of their earnings' share, but fails to understand that an open platform, devoid of any one entity controlling it, is the answer. He thinks Linux doesn't have enough potential players or users to put effort in, but goes out of his way to work for a much smaller user-base on iOS and go to court over policy disagreements. I really think it'd have been more effective if he Epic just pulled Fortnite out of iOS stating their grievances against Apple to the players and let the players deal with it. Tim Sweeney's immature actions out of vitriol towards Valve has made him look like a near-sighted man with childish ego. Remember, Gabe also hates Microsoft with a passion, he used that as a fuel to make a great platform for PC gamers.
You know why people don't complain about Valve taking 30%? It's because they actually regularly improve, innovate and give back to the players, developers and the communities. Small details like regional pricing and payment options, gift cards, social feature for gaming with friends, etc. matter a lot and make people want to use Steam as a platform. What has Epic Games done to improve their launcher and store experience? They don't even have feature parity with Steam, so why should anyone buy games from Epic? Valve may have missed with the Steam Machine, but they hit bullseye with the Deck. The more I see Valve, the more it feels like they operate on common sense and just keep winning with it.
@@dreaper5813 I think he prefers micro and soft.
@@dreaper5813why the heck are you replying with half a sentence per comment?
@@dreaper5813 never happened to me. I don't think it's CZcams removing "offensive" stuff, it's just typical broken CZcams system. But be careful, you might get flagged for spamming.
first
>Most issues come from game launchers
Yet another case of Wine not being fully baked for anything other than games such as GUIs smh
What do you mean "why do video game companies do this?" The answer should be rather obvious. Apex Legends is a game for windows developed on windows and supported on windows. The question should be why do Linux users do this and with this I mean run unsupported games on their systems and then complain when something does not work.
"why do Linux users do this and with this I mean run unsupported games on their system and then complain when something does not work" The answer to that should also be fairly obvious, because they want to play their games. 🙂
"complaining", raising problems or requesting support can also lead to improvements in the end. But I get it, it sometimes comes off as if Linux users think they are entitled to support, which of course they are not.
@dreaper5813 idk I think Windows users should expect better treatment from Microsoft, they bought their OS and as their customers they should be treated fairly. And it's okay to complain in their case, in the end it's up to them how much BS they are willing to put up with, or start looking at an alternative OS.
And the same Windows users refused to accept the facts of reality that anytime they boot up a computer into windows and it's connected online for any reasonable amount of time they do not own that PC @dreaper5813
@@killingtime9283 Then you need to get a windows machine or dual boot windows or maybe you can get away with windows in a vm. Complaining will only help if you are using windows. If you are using Linux you are running the game on an unsupported system and can't get support because it's unsupported.
@dreaper5813 Unfortunately that's the state of AAA games in general. They are not games, they are a storefront with a, more often then not, broken shell of a game attached to it.
Fortnite.
Sorry, but it's GNU/Linux. Linus Torvalds made only the Kernel. If you refer to the GNU project you are rigth, you should call it GNU/linux or GNU + Linux, Linux is the Kernel, the rest of the os is GNU. It's like to call your android phone Linux (it uses Linux kernel). SO please give credit to the GNU project.
if you care about gaming, use windows, the OS is just a tool to get the job done, don't bother, use the right OS for the right job, so you don't have a headache
@@dreaper5813 I also use Linux on one of my computers, but this is for AI purposes because this is one of the things on Linux that works better, but I wouldn't use Linux on a desktop PC For gaming and editing, because we know that many games and commercial software are not designed to run on Linux, Maybe you can use Proton or Wine, but don't expect high compatibility, not every application can be replaced by an FOSS application
Why would they test Apex Legends on Linux? Minimum game requirements clearly state "64bit Windows 10". Why would they be testing game on an OS they don't officially support?
@@dreaper5813 But why would they invest money in testing it?
Things like creating Linux compatible test suites (most testing is done automatically), creating test environments and having people with knowhow on how to fix Linux specific issue takes a lot of money.
I seriously doubt Linux players benefit significantly to their revenue stream (Linux enthusiasts don't strike me like ones purchasing a lot of micro-transactions).
Also, Valve fixed it for them for free, so they clearly made correct decision in not investing their own resources into it.
@@dreaper5813 How is Elden Ring comparable to Apex Legends? Elden Ring is a single player game with some optional multiplayer elements, while Apex Legends is a multiplayer only, free to play, battle royale style shooter. Elden Ring doesn't have anti-cheat system (although it could probably use one given rampant cheating in its PvP).
@@dreaper5813 You might not like battle royale shooters, which doesn't change the fact they are extremally popular and generate shitload of money.
It also doesn't change the fact that many publishers see no reason to explicitly support games on Linux. This is simply because of money - if games on Linux generated significant amount of revenue companies would support them. They don't, which means that, according to their calculation, they believe this revenue isn't high enough to bother.
Also, with Valve fixing games for them with Proton updates, those companies are in a win-win situation - they don't need to do anything to support Linux if Valve will do this job for them.
@@dreaper5813 Or you can get a Windows handheld like Rog Ally, Legion Go, or one of GPD devices and be able to play any game you like without those silly Linux limitations. That is what I did and I'm so glad that I don't have to constantly jump through hoops to play my games like I did on Steam Deck.
@@dreaper5813 Honestly "bad" handheld UI on Windows is pretty overblown.
All those handhelds (ROG Ally, Legion Go, etc.) come with software that makes basic actions (launching games, setting TDP, resolution, refresh rate, frame limiter, connecting to wi-fi, connecting Bluetooth device, etc) pretty easy using a controller. Also there are tools like Handheld Companion that are even more powerful. Such basic actions is all you really need on a gaming handheld.
More complicated things are done easier with mouse and keyboard connected (although touch screen is often good enough), but guess what - the same is true for Steam Deck. Doing anything more complicated on Steam OS requires switching to desktop mode - which isn't any better on a handheld then Windows is.
OF COURSE it's Valve's responsibility to fix SteamOS-specific game issues. They're the ones who foisted their unsupported OS onto the market, selling millions of units on the promise of broad compatibility. "Bring Steam with you, wherever you go!", they said. They made the promise, and now they have to keep it. A better strategy would have been to actually work with the game companies. Get the Steam Deck into their hands. Do whatever it takes to get them to support it for real. But no, Valve decided they didn't need official support or first-party QA. And this is the result.
Considering some of the lead-up to the Steam Deck, such as EAC support for Linux, it's not hard to imagine Valve having tried that. They tend to work a lot "in the industry background", e.g. on the Vulkan API through LunarG.
Some companies such as Ubisoft also reacted to the release of the Steam Deck with an attitude of "let's see how it goes before we get involved" which is so vague of a goal that it may as well be corpo-speak for a soft death sentence, considering there's still major issues with Ubisoft's launcher on Linux.
"it's not hard to imagine Valve having tried that" You're right, and yes, ISVs can be maddeningly uncooperative, but that's their right. Valve isn't entitled to official support for their platform. Ultimately, the decision to press on with SteamOS was theirs, as were the Steam Deck marketing promises, and therefore the responsibility to honor them.
I'm Part of the 0,06%.
Nice!
Honestly cry about it, if you hate this that much just use windows. otherwise you cant force them
Why should anyone invest into testing and maintaining an unsupported OS? It is your problem to make it work for yourself, if you chose to use an alternative OS
I still think they should let me run my own server without anti-cheat in more games