Chinese Diesel Air Heaters Part 3 - Fuel Consumption
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2019
- Chinese Diesel Air Heaters - Part 3 - Fuel Consumption, (By Maths.)
Disclaimer. Any advice or suggestions I may give is derived from published manuals and my own experience and detailed private testing. You must do your own independent research to see if my advice and suggestions are right for you and your instillation. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I just bought two of these heaters and I have been doing some research. I just wanted to say thanks because you have the most informative video about these heaters on CZcams...excellent job!!!
Thanks for the feedback Daniel. There a few more to come, dealing with different aspects. John
@@johnmck1147 I agree with Daniel!!
Good info, clear acknowledgment, thank you John McK 47
I appreciate the simple explanation and calculation for fuel consumption, vs running the thing forever to see.
👍
Thanks a lot for pointing me to this episode, great explanation again!
thank you for doing this series of video...very informative and really helpful! You certainly know your stuff.
Thanks for the positive feedback Angus
That was incredibly helpful, John. Thank you! My heater arrives next week in time for Arizona winter camping, so I've been schooling up with your videos. : )
Thanks for the feedback Michael. JMcK
John,
The most comprehensive video on fuel consumption with these heaters (on you tube anyway)
Also, you're the only one that explains why the pump shouldn't be horizontal.
Thanks you,
Chris.
Your welcome Chris. JMcK
Dude! good freaking job. I didn't realize these could be measured that way! Now I won't freeze at night because I know exactly how much much feel last x amount of time!!!!! Thank you so much
Your welcome Stoner. JMcK
Thanks for the tip on mounting pump vertically.
Your welcome Mike. JMcK
Best explanation I have found thus far. Thank you for making this great video!
Pleased you enjoyed the video Fabio. JMcK
John I have watched all of you videos and thank you so much as they are absolutely excellent. Thank you 🙏
Pleased you found them helpful. JMcK
Cheers from New England! Your videos have been incredibly educational, my diesel heater arrives tomorrow!
Love hearing the birds from down undah
Fantastic explanation. Great work!!!
Thanks Gapri. JMcK
Thank you for your great videos!! Very informative
Your welcome RP. JMcK
John, Thank you very much for the fantastic videos!
Thanks for the feedback Leo. J
@@johnmck1147 No, thank you! Please keep videos coming!
Brilliant! Thank you.
Your welcome. Glad you liked it.
You are awesome. Thank you for your time and commitment to share with us your experience and knowledge. All the best for you. God bless you.
Wow! Phyl.
Thank you for your positive comments. JMcK
Brilliant, just subscribed.
Regards from North Wales UK.
Thanks Les. JMcK
simple and to the point
Good tips and good math. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback Nicholas. JMcK
AMAZING video!
Hi John!
I had asked you in one of the videos about this heater if it would keep a 13x34 metal shop pretty warm. You didn't see a problem as long as I didn't want to have extreme heats in there. Well here are my results which might be of interest to your other subscribers.
I got the 8kw in addition of my solar and waste oil burner. At least one of the 3 has to be in function in order to keep the hot water accumulator hot. That's for my radiant flooring. So if no sun or waste oil is being burnt, only backup is the air heater. And that thing is amazing!
Right now as I type this, it is -17C outside. My shop has a slanted ceiling starting at 12 going down to 10. On top of that, right in the middle, I have a small 5 foot hallway that connect this shop to a previous one of 14x20. That one was electric heated....until 3 nights ago!
I have the heater set at 13C, the thermometer on my bench says 11.9C when the heater says 13 but whatever. At the furthest end of the building, it is 9C. The previous shop used to keep warm at minimal which was 5C. Now with the hallway opened to both buildings, it is 8C. This is the only heat source right now. The air heater. I'm building the other two.... ☺
So make your own conclusions from this to see if the air heater is something you need or want.
Thanks for that feedback Danny. So you are happy with the little heater?
How well insulated is your shed?
You are actually getting those results from a 5 kw heater, as the so called 8 kw heater is actually a rebranded 5 kw heater. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Couldn't be happier. Electrical power is $$$ where I live. I always kept the minimum heat in my wood shop in the winter. Not anymore.
Last night, it actually went as low as -22C and the wood shop, with 2x4 walls, R15 value, just getting the heat from the small hallway with an opening of maybe 2 feet by 48 inches tall and it was 7.5C.
The metal shop was warmer at one end, 10C and closer to the garage door, it was 8C. It took just a bit more fuel last night. It went from a typical 1/4 tank to well over 1/3 to maybe even 1/2 tank.
I've had it working non stop since January 5th. I stopped it once so I could move it too it's permanent destination for maybe 30 minutes. Fired right back up and still going on strong.
2 questions:
1. How many times should it be cleaned out? Will it send me a code telling me that XX has to be changed/cleaned or what not?
2. When you say it is a 5KW, how can we get a REAL 8KW or is it just a marketing smoke and mirrors tactic?
Regardless, I think it is a neat little rig and I am just starting to Frankenstein the whole thing.
I will machine the case (like a good backyard mechanic that worked as one in the Army!) so I can wrap a copper tubing around it and help me heat my hot water accumulator. I mean if Soft Tub SPA are heated with the same principal, surely the heat coming out of the heater is greater than the motor casing for the SPA.
This will be done shortly after the waste oil burner and building a cab for my tractor. Time is scarce so I have to share it at the right time according to priorities. They are calling for a snowstorm tomorrow and I don't have a snow plow for my tractor. The one i had is way too short. So I am extending it to make it the proper one to use.
If it wasn't for the heater, there is NO way in hell that I would have done it in the yard like I used to. Too many times have I frozen my body. Not getting any younger so have to take care of myself. And I have to do it thriftily, on a Veteran pension.
So again, when I do make that mod, I will make sure I tell you. If I can't recall which video I had responded (now,) I will pick one of the 16 you have and it will still be relevant. ☺
Happy New Year, by the way! LOL
Dany F ,
Hi Danny,
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
Happy New Year back to you.
If installed correctly, run on good fuel, and operated correctly you can go a long time without a carbon clean out. I have not cleaned out the boat heater in nearly 12 years.
Give it a full heat run occasionally, and run a kerro mix through at season end.
You will know when it is time to clean. It will be hard to start, and it will smoke.
To my knowledge there are no 8 kw Chinese heaters. It would need to be significantly larger. The Germans do make a genuine one and it is much larger than their D4 heater.
Good for you running a copper coil. You can also run one around the exhaust.
One Chinese manufacturer now makes a water and air heater. I am trying to get one to test.
Cheers. JMcK
Thanks. Simple and clear
Great information, thank you
Your welcome. JMcK
Thank you very much, sir.
Great work
Thanks Richard. JMcK
Top man!
Just awaiting delivery of mine.
👍
Hello John
I have really enjoyed your videos and all the tips thankyou so much for all your efforts in putting up these videos up , Just want to say i have purchased one of these units to heat my sheds and the issues you raised have not been addresses in this unit. Pump is horizontal error and the fuel lines are the non Nylon type and no fuel filter.
Great isnt is .. this unit is ment to be portable but i will address these issues and fix as per your comments regards Ross NZ
Hi Ross, set up as you describe these heaters will work. They will even work upside down......For a while. Just as your motorcar will still work if you do an oil service and forget to add new oil. The engine will still start and run......for a while. JMcK
👍thank you from Germany
Your welcome Adrian. JMcK
Pleased you found the series helpful. JMcK
Hi John, firstly may I congratulate you on your video's, extremely knowledgeable information. I have a Chinese elcheepo heater which had been running very well for the past 2 seasons, until now, Winter 2022. Just nearing Spring and it now will not start up. I checked the "Parking Heater" Instruction Manual in hope of finding how to diagnose the fault other than a blown fuse which it had not. Decided to replace the operation control unit, (cost AU$30) connected to the unit, and non operative still.
Checked the power supply with a multimeter to find power to the control unit was correct, reading 13.2 volts. Checked the power to the Circuit Board unit on heater and same, tested at the plug connectors of both. So power is not the problem at these points. I am assuming that the Circuit board is faulty, Check the instruction manual for contact details, and surprise, surprise (as Gomer Pile would say) nothing, nil details. I am hoping you may advise me if any where I can locate a supplier for another board here in Australia, I'm currently in Central Victoria freezing my N&*%s off. Preferably not E-bay
Once again thank you, your the Diesel Heater Guru it seems. 😉😉🙏
Hi Stephen,
First, thank you for the positive feedback.
Now you do not give enough detail on why it won't start.
Do you get an error code?
Do you hear the pump ticking?
Is the glow plug working? Check with a clamp meter, should go from about a 1 amp draw to 8 to 10 amps as glow plug turns on.
There are on line suppliers for ECB, and in the past all the Chinese heaters copied same protocol so ECB's and controllers matched. Nowadays this is not the case so you need a supplier who sells both and you buy the pair. But you can still have issues re fan speed sensor.
Anyway, if the glow plug works and you hear the pump ticking, I would suspect your issue is carbon buildup in heater atomisation screens in burner and blockage in small air start hole and glow plug screen. ECB issues are very rare.
I have videos on these issues above.
I suggest you check for carbon build up issues first. If you still have issues, It may be better to buy a new heater, they are cheap, and use the old one for spare parts.
Cheers, JMcK
Thanks!
Hi S, If the fuel system has stabilised and there are no air leaks, fuel will flow through a filter with air in it without issues. Look for any bubbles on the outlet side of the filter, there should ne NONE. If there are no bubbles here you could leave things alone. The only bubbles you should have are on the outlet side of the dosing pump, and they should be very tiny, and evenly spaced. Those tiny bubbles are normal and caused by low pressure cavitation in the dosing pump.
@Ryan Oi mate the amount I’m not gonna be CZcams spelling police. Though I can understand what you’re saying or meaning. I reckon you should sleep mate just my opinion mate & yeah nice spot about the worlds media and you saying that has just proven that MSM + the internet is controlled to a certain degree
Hi Ryan, thank you for your feedback. I hope the videos are of some help to you. JMcK
Hi Tony, thanks for the feedback. I agree with most of your points, but I caution on the Kerosene one. From the 2p comment I assume you are British, and you may have a lot of sulphur in your commercial kerosene over there, giving it adequate lubricity.
Running normal "lighting" kerosene will seriously damage the dosing pump in just one season. In Aus, readily available kerosene is far more expensive than Diesel. J
Are you certain that any one using standard kerosene full time in a diesel air heater of this design will seriously damage their fuel pump in just one heating season? You have tested this theory many times and it is in fact 100% accurate?
Thank you John
Your welcome Paolo. JMcK
@@johnmck1147
John, "Your"? C,mon. You are able to do much, much better than "Your". So beautiful videos, the best on this subject, and so lazy to not to write "You're"? I'm so happy that people like you are with us, please, don't put me down. Hug from Italy
Hi John, I live in Canada. I was on the fence, trying to deside if i would buy one of these heaters, for my garage. Now i am not afraid to buy one! Thank you!
👍
Thank you John for your quick response, The actual controller will not operate when I press the on button, there is power to the controller however it will not activate the screen. So can't see any thing on the screen at all. There is also power to the electronic unit on the heater unit it self but nothing happens. I think I will just purchase another unit as you mention. When I have I will pull this one apart and check it further, following your video's as a guide. Thank you again.
Hi Stephen, I have come across two controllers where the screen LED fails and you can't see the letters, but the controller still works. Did you wait for the start cycle? Also it is easy for me to check the controller as I have around six spare ones and I can easy swap in a new one. I try to buy heaters that use standard protocol and those heaters that have controllers with triangular controller plugs generally use standard protocol. Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thank you John that is exactly what is happening, no visuals. I have not waited for any cycles due to this problem, I have jumped straight to a conclusion of broken. I will give that a go and report back. Cheers
As if you invented those heaters^^ GENIUS JOHN
Thanks Marko, hope you found the videos helpful. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 more than that - you gave me the courage to finish my heater installation today in my van - i planned to get the diesel from the cars main tank, but I didnt have the proper extractor for it.. So the heater was installed, but not connected for half a year now. Today i did it with the 10l tank thats included and it worked great, the heater heats now an next week Im gonna be on tour again 👍 keep up the great work!
👍 JMcK
I´m considering mounting the heater unit on its side (with glow plug on upper half) Do you see any issues doing this and do you think the heater will still operate at the same efficiency? Your wisdom as the Duke of Diesel heaters are much appreciated!
Good morning, yes with these dosing pumps the piston action results in low pressure and cavitation which causes the formation of tiny air bubbles. That is quite normal. That is why you must mount the dosing pump in a vertical manner to allow these bubbles to escape. They cause no problem in the burn chamber, and actually help with fuel atomisation in the burner atomisation screens and with the fuel burn.
Re the filter, first make sure the flow direction is correct, filters are one direction. if there is no arrow for guidance, the inlet fuel is directed to the outside of the filter, not the inside. Second, try and initially prime the filter in a vertical manner to allow the air to escape. Once primed orientation is not an issue. Third, a small bubble in the filter is no issue provided there are no leaks in the system. No new bubbles are formed by diesel passage in operation like in the dosing pump, and the filter bubble stabilises and diesel is sucked through the filter without any further issues.
I hope this helps.
Thanks, I will try to get most of the air out of the filter and see if any new air gets inside. Currently about 40% of the filter is filled with air. The flow direction is marked on the filter and it is installed that way.
John, thank you so much for these excellent videos!! I'm in the process of watching all of them. And then I'll watch them again!! One complaint that I have heard about these heaters is the poor compensation for altitude. Can you shed any light on this? Are there any hacks to compensate for altitude?
Hi David,
Thanks for the positive feedback.
Currently these Chinese Diesel do not have any altitude compensation add on that I am aware of. However you should get reasonable performance at high altitude by using a diesel/kerro mix, say 10:90 or 20:80 diesel:kerro.
The big issue is because of the lower oxygen levels at altitude, the heater burns rich and creates excessive amounts soot and carbon in the burner chamber. Kerosene burns cleaner and helps with the soot issue, and kerro also helps with the gelling issue of diesel at low temperature.
Cheers. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you John. It would really be a game changer if there were a way to lean out the mixture, even if the adjustment were crude
Sir. You have written the Bible on these heaters.
The test here is really helpful.
I just ordered a "all in one" 5Kw.
Not only promising a lot of "bang for my buck", but I have seen plenty of videos showing maintenance and repairs.
Plus I saw individual parts sold freely .
Now I just have to explain it to my wife who doesn't know I ordered it 🙃
She will love you for it when she stays warm. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Well... that is the long-term plan
Second plan is to test this and I have an elderly lady down the road whose gas bill has jumped from €230/month to €1240/month. She's in tears. I want to properly install one of these to heat up her living room in the evenings.
So these things have been around since the 1930's and these affordable Chinese ones seem to work if understood correctly. I think i saw Spare parts available somewhere.
You're videos are INVALUABLE. Really!
Hi Peter,
These heaters are cheap buy and cheap to run. I installed one in my daughters bedroom some years ago with great success. She lives on a farm, off grid with no services.
Good for you to look after your neighbour. JMcK
Hi. From what I have read an angle between 15° and 90° upward seems to be ok for the pump, right? Regarding the fuel filter, which orientation would you recommend? I tried mine horizontally, but there is a big air bubble inside. I think this might be a problem when mounted in a car where the angle often changes depending on the terrain. Maybe I should try 90° upward or downward?
Top man 👌
Thanks Stephen, glad you liked the video. JMcK
Thanks for the usage info, explains why i burned up all my fuel in three days from having it on high, ill leave it on low and use 600-700ml a day instead. Fuel filter it says put at a 30 degree angle, i presume for what you described.
Hi Pete, thanks for the comment. The fuel filter can be at any angle, but the fuel pump needs to be angled up greater than 15 deg. An angle of 30 deg is a good angle for DIY people. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 I can't say thank you enough! You Sir, are a brilliant man.
I absolutely adore people who use social media for intellectual mentation. This is the proper use of it.
Be well.
Wahya Saquii
Wow! Thank you Wahya.
Could you tell me what the consumption is per hour on low? I dont need 5kw. More like 2kw so will be running on low
Thank you for the math
Your welcome Patrick. JMcK
Nice, in USA it will run 20 hours or so on 1 gallon of diesel!! My truck burns 1 gallon an hour at 1200 RPMS when idled up, crazy fuel savings
Thanks for the feedback rev9. JMcK
Hi John, many thanks again for the excellent videos. Would I be right in thinking the 2, 5 and 8kw versions use the same amount of fuel per hour and their output is purely based on their size? If so, a 2kw exhaust would be hotter than an 8kw’s because the 8kw is exchanging more heat in the unit itself? This is an interesting factor to consider when planning an installation and I would love to one day experiment with harvesting exhaust heat.
If you search Richard Baker diesel heater on CZcams this guy did some good calculations and energy output. He got about 10,000 output of an 8k heater.
Hi John, my control panel only displays H1-H6 how do I convert to Hz so I can work out fuel usage. H1 setting seems to be two pulses per second.
Greetings from PA. Excellent review I'm thinking of purchasing one of these thru eBay or Amazon the all in one units already assembled I'll just have to make sure that the out take/intake are properly set up and of course a power supply which I guess I can use a deep cell AGM battery would work? I'll be installing in my camper van any tips greatly appreciated and of course trying to pick one out of dozens that offered from the many sellers? Thanks again ☮️
Hi Ish, thanks for the feedback. By assembled do you mean the units in a metal case with an integrated fuel tank? If so read the description carefully. I know a person who bought one of those and did not read the description carefully and all she got was an external metal case. No heater or fuel tank inside. I will be doing a review on those at a later date.
Yes, there are many sellers, look for one with a local warehouse if possible, and one that takes returns. I am not sure that the reviews mean too much these days. Better to have a recommendation from a buyer in your local area. Good luck. J
Have you ever installed a heater outside a small building, for example ? Just the air pipes inside the building wall and the power supply.
Some kind of sheet metal to cover the whole installation. In winter time, of course, you need winter-quality diesel.
Yes, just protect heater from the weather. JMcK
Hi John great vid series. I have a power supply run from the mains. If there is a power cut I was worried it might fry the ecu, so I was thinking of putting a 12v battery in parallel with the supply to keep it running in the event of a power cut. My question is: is there a way of putting it into automatic shutdown when it has a power cut or low voltage situation before the battery dies? Perhaps a relay to sense the mains is off or a low voltage shut down option?
Hi CP,
If you are running off a mains supply I guess you would need to do a risk benefit study. Eg, how often do you have a power outage? If very rare, and generally the worst outcome is a fried ECB, why bother.
If not uncommon, and you go for a battery back up in parallel, why not just run the heater straight off a small battery permanently connected to a small battery charger. If the power goes off and the battery gets no charge, the heater will go through its shut down cycle, when the battery voltage drops down towards 11 volts.
Cheers. JMcK
When mounting the pump, you want it upright following the direction of flow (output pointing up) or does it matter so long as it is upright?
Also, if you have a 15L tank and are using approximately 300mls/hr on the boost mode, does that mean you could expect it to last roughly 45-50 hrs?
I'm thinking about buying one for some winter camping and am just trying to work out the cost vs running a generator or some form of propane heat (which I don't like).
Hi Stephane,
The fuel pump needs to be tilted upwards to allow the little cavitation bubbles to escape. Anywhere from about 30 deg to vertical is ok.
Yes the 15 ltr fuel tank will last about 45 to 50 hours at those settings.
Cheers. JMcK
what is the OD of the fuel pump ?
If you draw the loss heat around the exhaust to preheat the intake air do you think it would increase the efficiency?
It could be an interesting experiment Andrew. As of now I think not, as you want cooler and denser air for combustion. A reason for after coolers with turbos. J
Great videos. What do you suggest wrapping the exhaust pipe in to go through a wood wall?
Hi Mel,
You can wrap it in exhaust wrap available on line or from auto stores, but I personally would put a metal tube in the wall first and run the wrapped exhaust tube through that tube. (Belt and braces approach). JMcK
Is this 0.02 still the same in bigger diesel heaters like 20kw? If they all use the same dosages does this mean they're all as efficient as eachother?
Hi, first off huge thanks for your videos, very informative! I'm a little confused about the dosage of diesel, some say 5-8kw dose 0.2ml and some say 0.02ml. But 0.02ml is the correct dose then I assume?
Hi Sebastian,
The correct dose is .02 ml per pulse. (As I state in the video)
Running these heaters at a high setting of 5 Hz, the fuel consumption is approx 360 ml/hr, or approx 8.5 ltr/day of continuous running. (At a high setting)
If your heater used .2 ml/ pulse, at a rate of 5 Hz it would use approx 3.6 ltrs per hour, or over 86 litres per day. I don't think a little heater that used 86 litres of diesel per day could be considered economical or viable. JMcK
Hi John, a youtuber passed your channel on to me, I have just bought the 8kw heater and on checking it over, it shows the pump with the electric switch having the diesel going into it from the tank, can you please tell me, is that the output to the heater, ? or the inlet from the tank? as I took the cover off and found a few loose screw and bolts and the pump end with the switch was facing the tank downwards, what is the correct way please.?? purchased 24th Sept 2022 GT woodshop has fixed his facing straight down.
Hi Charlie, it will work upside down for a while. The pump must be facing with the outlet upwards to allow the small cavitation bubbles to escape. Sorry for delay, I missed your query. JMcK
Is there any merit in changing the fuel hose on the output of the pump to something more sturdy. My reasoning being pvc pipe has some give in it, it balloons a tiny bit with pressure. Which will mean when it pulses the pressure of the fuel is actually lessened slightly by the ballooning, which may cause poorer spraying from the injector, perhaps making combustion not as good as it could be. Clearly the stock fuel lines work, but an improvement in efficiency is always good. Nylon hose is fuel resistant and very sturdy and doesn't balloon, and is super cheap.
Hi Ratgreen,
On the delivery side, if longer than 500 mm or so, you should use small bore hard nylon tubing for the delivery fuel line.
Suggest you watch number 11 in this series. That will explain in more detail.
Regards, JMcK
Just briliant! Thanks for a splendid video!
Ps have you tried some mixture with eg waste oil or simillar? Ds.
Thanks Magnus, pleased you found it helpful. JMcK
I have a question John, in your video you say to mount the pump vertically and that sounds right to me for the reasons you mention. However everywhere else I’ve seen people saying it should be mounted at 45 degrees. Which is correct?
Hi PD,
The pump needs to be mounted in an upwards orientation to allow the little cavitation bubbles an easy escape. Generally anything over 15 deg inclined upwards is ok, but better to have a angle of 45 deg and upwards is better. JMcK
Hope install goes well. Birds say hello 😊. JMcK
Is it advisable to do away with the soft fuel line that comes with the unit and replace it with the smaller ID nylon hose as seen in many videos? Mind you, I have not watched all your videos yet and you might answer that question in one of those. Thanks either way. (Came back after watching your 11th video where you answered my question, thanks again).
Very helpful videos, all of them. I have an old Mercedes 814 that uses Grade 2 diesel fuel. Do you think it´s possible to use the vehicle fuel tank to feed the heater, or it´s demandable a Grade 3 diesel fuel ?
Hi Fernando,
I am unaware of where you live and I am unaware of the differences between your diesel grades. However some thoughts.
You can use almost anything for a fuel tank.
These heaters will burn almost anything ...... For a while
The “oiler” the fuel the greater the carbon deposits produced, and the more frequent the units require service. The “cleaner” the fuel the better the heaters operate, and the less service.
In very cold conditions or elevated environments a high kerro/diesel mix (90/10) gives good results with lowered maintenance. JMcK
I went into the settings with code 1688 and set the low frequency down from 1.6hz to 1.0 hz, that gives me a half gallon of diesel ($3/gallon) usage over the course of 24hrs; that’s $1.50 USD per day on low. Which is about 1.7 liters or $2.40 AUS per day, if my calculations are correct; I’m going off a diesel price of $1.40 per liter.
Thanks for the feedback Mr R.
However, be aware 1Hz is in the area where the burn is so low you risk a flame out.
You are also at a level of minimum burn where there is a risk of excessive carbon buildup.
Cheers. JMcK
Does the .02 dose rate change depending if it is a 2kw verses 5kw or is it simply Hz control?
Hi Phil,
Yes, the dose rate is the same, and yes the temperature is controlled by Hz.
Both units operate around the same temperature, but the 5 KW has a larger heat exchanger, and hence for the same operating temperature it can provide a greater volume of heated air. JMcK
Hi John,
Just wondering if there is 'any' possibility of fuel being syphoned passed the fuel pump eg, if using the bigger bore aquarium type green fuel line. eg, If the fuel tank was higher than the heater. Do You also know if the red LCD controller has a built in thermistor / thermostat ? I have fitted a heater & the heater thermostat may not be regulating the temperature in the motorhome. The black rectangular LCD controller has a pin hole thermostat. I am thinking extra fuel is being syphoned passed the fuel pump?
best wishes
Ian
Hi Ian, if a controller has a thermistor it will generally have a small hole for temperature sensing.
Generally you can have the fuel tank up to about 1 meter above the pump without causing issues. The fuel pump is activated by an electro magnet, but the piston returns to its normal position by small springs. Too much fuel head pressure not only can cause leakage, but also improper operation as the pump. JMcK
This series is great, and I love your approach that´s "with brains" instead of "with muscle" ;-) Could you imagine somewhen talking about air/fuel-ratio for optimal burning (?),cause you cannot only change fuel-delivery-ratio by changing the pump-frequency, but you can also change the impeler-speed to deliver more air, through this same interface. An engine can run too lean or too fat, for example. Is there some similar dilemma also with a heater? Bye bye !!!
Hi Klaus,
You can change the pump settings and fan speeds in the locked settings of the heater ECU.
The unlock password is easily searched for on the internet. However I have deliberately not released the unlock codes that I know as the average person can get into a whole lot of trouble messing with the settings, and there is no factory reset button to hit when things go wrong. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thank you !!! ;-)
If like mine, it comes with the later style LCD controller, it doesn't show the Hertz pulse rate, so you have no clue as to what rate the pump is injecting the fuel. Mine is the style that doesn't have the WiFi antenna symbol, battery symbol and only shows H1 - H6.
Hello! Please tell me how long will this heater last?
Oh Mikola, I can't answer that because there are just too many variables to give an answer. However our heater on our boat is around 20 years old. JMcK
Hello John, Super in depth videos, which I love. Do you have information on the efficiency running at different pulse rates? I run mine a lot at 1hz, 3hz to heat up quickly and 5.5hz when it's almost freezing inside. But I feel like the boost mode is not as efficient... Would love to hear your opinion.
Hi E,
I mostly run very much like you. Using recirculated air.
I find at 5.5 Hz, I can overheat the heater.
But every install, and environment condition is different.
Cheers, JMcK
Do these heaters have a automatic shut-off and turn-on feature according to the temp? or if the temp is high enough it will just keep on running on low regardless of how warm it gets?
Hi Alex,
All depends on controller.
Most controllers generally supplied with these Chinese heaters keep heater going, and just ramp up or slow down to maintain the set temperature. JMcK
Hi john to my knowledge nobody has ask you what to do in summer, some say you should drain the diesel tank and run the heater dry of diesel, I know I will have to prim the heater again the next time I need it, what is your thoughts on this thank you
Hi Denis.
I always put a tap in the fuel line and just shut the tap when not using the heater.
If using a separate fuel tank I would tend to let it run down at season end so you could add a bit of fresh diesel next season, but these heaters are not high performance engines and would not be bothered by a bit of fuel degradation.
In 12 odd years of heater use on the sailing boat in the Med, I just turn off the fuel tap after using the heater, and next year turn it back on when using the heater. We once went two years without using the heater, turned the fuel tap on and it fired up as normal.
Cheers, JMcK
Do the bubbles effect the flow rate of the fuel?
Would mounting the fuel tank above the fuel pump eliminate the bubbles?
The tiny bubbles are cavitation bubbles caused by the operation of the piston in the fuel pump and are quite normal. Also these regular spaced tiny bubbles actually help in the atomisation of the fuel in the burner. JMcK
Hi John, what happens if the unit runs out of fuel (fuel tank gets empty) ? Can this cause damage to the unit (piston, glow plug, ..). Does the ECU recognizes this situation ? Thanks
Hi Andre,
The ECU will recognise when out of fuel, and shut the heater down without any overheat issues.
However, the fuel pump can run dry for some minutes, as if pushes fuel along the line with air pressure. Excessive running of a dry pump can cause pump wear.
Cheers JMcK
i m watching the full series and trying to find out. is there a manual way to adjuste the heater for altitude? if you are at 5000-8000ft...can we change the fuel pump amount independently from the fan speed to compensate for less o2?
Hi Jonathan, there is no way I know of to adjust a Chinese diesel heater for altitude. You can however buy a genuine Eberspacher heater with altitude compensation.
As, at altitude these heaters burn rich and creat carbon, a partial solution could be a high 80:20 or 90:10 kerro diesel mix.
Sorry I can't be of more help. JMcK
A number of the Chinese suppliers advised me to use the analog controller with my 2KW version, so I did. I have used it at 7500' for a few days at a time with no apparent issues. I will regularly run Kero through the system as well when I return home from a trip. I also have found that the higher cetane diesel works better. I can either buy it for ten cents per litre more at the pump, or put cetane boost into the regular diesel.
Would there be any pros or cons by adding a small amount of two stroke oil to the 5 liters of a full tank? Would that gum up the system, aid in prolonging the life of the metering pump or do nothing? Thanks.
Hi RA, the diesel has enough lubricant for the pump. Two stroke oil is ok in very small amounts but it tends to produce carbon deposits requiring more maintenance. JMcK
Could you use a different type of fuel pump? For example 3-6PSI and 90L / H or is it too much and it would flood it?
No. The ECU needs a way to control an exact amount of fuel being delivered at a particular heat setting and matches this fuel dose to a set fan speed to get a correct fuel air mix. A simple dosing pump is a simple way for the ECU to control the fuel delivery. JMcK
but if you are running in temperature mode (ie the pulses vary to maintain a constant temp) the does Hz changes and therefore consumption is not constant.
Correct Dan, then you have to average, just the same by measuring the time to use a tank of fuel. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thanks, just got 1 of these for under $100 very pleased with it.
how does the heater get decompression or the air bubbles don't effect it the same way as it woulda diver
Hi Kevin
The little cavitation bubbles are normal and if you use hard, narrow bore nylon tube on the delivery side of the pump the little bubbles travel to the heater and help with atomisation of the diesel.
If you use soft large bore delivery fuel hose and you have bends in it the little bubbles will form a large bubble (like decompression sickness in a diver) and cause heater operation issues.
Cheers. JMcK
Hi John, have you done a video about battery usage? I’m not really concerned about fuel usage. I don’t care if it uses 200ml an hour or 300 ml. However I’m more concerned about having enough 12V power to run the heater overnight. I’ve seen the amp values in some of your other vids (maybe 1.2 amps on medium setting) but that doesn’t mean much to me. How long could I run the heater if I have a typical 12V battery setup in my caravan? I’m guessing it maybe be a 100 amp/hr battery?
Hi Greg, I talk more about battery usage in an upcoming video I have done on a motorhome install. Hope to publish end of July.
If you have a 100 AH lead battery you can pull out 50AH (only half) before the battery is flat. You can never get a full 100 AH out of a lead battery in everyday use.
At a mid setting the heater will draw say around 1.2 amps running the fan, fuel pump, and ECU, so if you run the heater for 10 hours a night you will pull around 12 AH out of your battery. You have 50 AH available if the battery is fully charged.
In actual practice, unless it is very cold you will probably run the heater for a few hours at night and then another few hours in the morning.
If it is very cold and you run the heater continuously you will use around 25AH to 50AH per day
Cheers, JMcK
John McK 47 hi John, that’s good to hear. I’ll look forward to that video. I’m now thinking of installing a 2nd 100ah battery in parallel with the original.
Does anyone knows how to use it to keep coolant warm while using it to heat air. Description says it can be done but I just can not find how?
You want to get a small radiator and water pump. It will blow hot air over the radiator and the pump will cycle coolant through the entire vehicle system. It will keep the coolant and the cab nice and warm.
In short for the Americans who neeeeed instant gratification here’s some math I should have right; my heater runs between 1.4 Hz to a max of 5.4 Hz. Probably typical
Minimum fuel consumption idling 24/7: just over 100ml/hr (bout 3.38oz….blah blah, about 38hrs per gallon) about 19gallons a month-under $100
Maximum…389ml (13oz)/ hour & 9.7 hours per gallon. 75 gallons a month…bout $375. Approximate based on five bucks a gallon
What’s in the bubbles? If it is in fact vaporized fuel due to boiling at low pressure then it should recondense after atmospheric pressure is reached. If it is air, the there’s a leak where the piston is pulling in air ( which I think is what happened). If there is a magnetic solenoid plunger shaft, is there a seal around it that can leak air in?
Hi Chuck, they are little cavitation bubbles, cause no harm and are quite normal.
They are very similar to cavitation bubbles caused by boat propellors.
I also think they help in the Fuel atomisation process as the fuel is forced through the atomisation screens in the burner chamber.
If your fuel system is not designed right, or you have the wrong fuel hose the little bubbles can come together and form one big bubble, which will cause you issues. JMcK
and from the fuel consumption you can calculate how many watt of heat it produces as 1l of diesel will burn to produce 10.000 watts of heat of 10 kW.
Well the exhaust gas is part of this so lets say the heater is 70% efficient this gives 700 watts of heat per 100ml of diesel.
So a low setting in this example 144ml will be around 1.500 watts or 1.5 kw. boost around 2.8 kWh, so far from the rated 4kw or what this model is advertised as.
Hey John. With my tank inside my caravan and the pump mounted OUTSIDE, running diesel, will I get gel issues with the fuel?
Hi Keeb,
If you are in a very cold environment you will most probably be buying winter diesel to help with the gel issues. But with the fuel tank inside the van and not in the cold outside environment, gel issues are greatly lessened. Without knowing more I don't think you will have any issues.
If concerned you could mix in a bit of kerro in the diesel. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 thanks. You're an outstanding chap!
You are assuming that the pump is pumping (Dosing) the same volume of fuel per one cycle and you are talking about air bubbles in the fuel line going to the pump that creates inaccuracy in pumping volume . Good video
Hi John,
Re:- Hertz OR degrees C using the controller{ Fuel Consumption}. Will the heater use the SAME amount of fuel ? Does 8C low equate to 2Hrtz ? The controller has a thermistor does that mean that the pump will stop dosing when the room reaches a set temp and then will start pumping again when the room cools? Just trying to work out which is the most economical way to run a heater Hrtz or degrees C.
Thanks Ian
Hi Ian, how you operate the heater is a personal thing, and I suggest you try the different methods.
If you go for a temperature setting the heater will roar away at max speed to try and reach the set temperature, then it will scale back to maintain the set temperature. If it is able, and the area to heat is achievable for the heater. This method can work well where you run the heater most of the time and your set temperature has been reached.
I generally prefer to use the manual setting to lessen the noise. I will set a mid range pulse rate, 3 or 4 Hz, and let the accommodation area heat up more slowly. I generally, but not always, choose to go slower.
Like in a motor car, you can choose to race off to a destination at full speed and max RPM (provided no speed restrictions) with lots of noise and machinery wear to be at your destination in the shortest possible time. Or you can take your time, go slower with less wear and tare.
The total fuel consumption will be about the same. JMcK
Thanks John advice much appreciated.
John the pumps have numbers on then 2kw as12v 16/18 and 5kw is 22/18 what would you think on that. Jeff
Hi Jeff, I do not know. I have lots of numbers ZM-18 , 22-12, J32 etc here. I think it just may be a manufacturer code. However all I test give exactly the same dose. J
Thats good to know thank you again. Jeff in uk@@johnmck1147
Hi John, I’d it possible to make the heater burn more efficiently? In some videos they say to alter the Hz rate and fan speed to get the perfect air to diesel ratio of 14.5 to 1 I think it was. They say this keeps your diesel heater clean and more economical too. If this is correct can you do a video on it and how to set up your diesel heater please.
I use the same remote as I your video and the Chinese instructions are useless.
That should say: is it possible….
Hi PD,
I have resisted this as changing the factory settings can cause lots of issues if you get it wrong.
The factory settings are best for most operational conditions except high altitude. If you are an enthusiast, by all means experiment, but if not, it is better to leave this alone.
Remember there is no reset button back to factory settings if you mess up.
Regards. JMcK
Hi i just received my heater and saw a video and they say to have the fuel pump fitted on 45 degrees angle and you say to have it straight up and down, whats your thoughts on this pls
Hi Peter,
If you watch the videos you will see that the pump causes cavitation bubbles and the pump must be mounted facing upwards so the bubbles can escape. Any angle over 15 degrees is ok. 45 degrees is a good angle. JMcK
@@johnmck1147 Thanks mate i saw that i jumped the gun abit with my question thanks again you doing a great job mate
@@johnmck1147 can you run with the fuel tank and fuel pump higher than the heater so it siphens down to the pump from the tank
peter krych Gold & Hunting
Yes Peter, you can have the tank higher than the pump, up to about 1 meter without issues, but it is good practice to install a shut off tap in the fuel line and close the tap when not using the heater as sometimes the weight of the fuel can leak past the pump seals causing issues on next start up. JMcK
Hi John, I have the 2.5 in my van and have burned out 2 glo plugs. I had used the heater for about 2 hours then turned it off and when I tried to turn it on in the morning the error code for the glo plug came up. This has happened 2X now. Any suggestions? Thank you!
Not quite sure about this without seeing your set up. But some suggestions for you.
1. Are you running correct voltage?
This can be both over voltage. Eg running a 24 V system and you have a 12V heater.
Or having low voltage to the glow plug due to thin power wire to heater.
2. You have a controller issue and the glow plug is left on too long.
3. Perhaps another controller issue, and your glow plugs were actually ok. Suggest you connect a 12V supply and see if the glow plugs heat up to red heat.
I would be interested to know if you find out the issue. JMcK
in my calc 22ml /hz= 0.022 litres per cycle not ml? 22ml/1000=0.022litres! Am I wrong?
is the heater going to be ok with decompression sickness or will it go out
Not Quiet sure what you mean here Kevin. Can you be more precise please? JMcK
Are those birds in the background, or are the bearings about to seize up? :) Excellent series on these heaters.
I think it is the bearings about to seize. 🤪
Aust Butcher Birds and Aus Magpie. JMcK
Your fuel burn rate math is what I was wanting to know. 1 U.S. gallon is converts into 3785.41ml. At a burn rate of 144 ml./hr., the heater will burn 1 U.S. gallon in 26.287 hours. At a burn rate of 216 ml./hr., it will take 17.525 hours to burn 1 gallon. That is a really slow burn rate to be able to stay warm while camping considering that the heater will only be used for 6 to 8 hours during the night. The best part is that this type of burner will burn used engine oil. So, save your used oil for the heater.
will it stay running with air bubbles in the fuel
Hi Kevin, the little air bubbles (not a big bubble) are cavitation bubbles caused by pump piston movement and are quite normal. They can actually help in fuel atomisation and burner operation. JMcK
Interesting, I never knew in Aussiland you guys buy diesel in ml, and not in L. But I learned that this thing burns 144ml per hr. I suggest you switch to L, it is so much easier that way
Hi Mr V
We actually do buy diesel in litres in Australia. But when talking about small quantities we, (well me anyway) prefer to use smaller units when dealing with smaller volumes.
I Australia we also use decimal currency, dollars, but when using smaller quantities we switch to smaller units. Eg I think it more simple to say something costs 58 cents to buy, rather than it costs decimal 58 of a dollar to buy.
We also use kilometres "Down Under" as a measure of distance. Here again most Aussies (perhaps not all) drop down to smaller units for smaller distances. We say things like "The next town is 10 kilometres away" but drop back to smaller measure for smaller distances, eg "You should remain 2 meters apart for social distance during pandemic" not "You should remain decimal zero, zero, two kilometres, apart for social distancing"
Sorry. JMcK
I'll help you, 144ml is 0.144 liters.
Hi john may have found something dangerous in the code setting you can set the start up setting to say P1.3 then you press ok and max setting comes up normally P5.5 is maximum but on mine I can turn it up P8.0 and the heater is running with P8.0 it is way to high can you check yours to see if it doe's the same thank again. Jeff
Hi Jeff, the normal fuel range setting of most controllers seems to be 1.6 Hz to 5.5 Hz. I can override mine and go to 6 Hz max setting, but I can't run a heater long at that setting as it overheats and shuts down. Remember it is summer here with a high ambient temperature. Results would be totally different in winter and you could run at a max setting with less issues.
Provided the overheat sensor is working properly the heater will shut down in a controlled manner when it overheats. I plan to do a video at some time in the future of me deliberately overheating one of these heaters to show the controlled shutdown procedure. The ECU does it very well.
The real danger is cutting power (accidentally or deliberate) to a heater so it can not go through its shutdown cycle. A flat battery will also shut down a heater with consequences. The ECU shut down procedure involves turning on the glow plug to burn off any unburnt fuel. The current draw is 8 to 10 amps (all glow plugs vary) and a flat battery not only will not provide the required amps but the extra low voltage will not "glow" the plug. J
Thanks John not just mine i'll keep it on P5.4 safe looking forward to the overheat video thanks again. Jeff@@johnmck1147