War Thunder Fw190-D9 | Carrying with Duels
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- čas přidán 30. 09. 2017
- Ammo:
-13mm: Stealth
-20mm: Air Targets
Convergence: 400m
Manual Engine Control settings:
-30% radiator
A subscriber requested to fly the Fw190D9 unsquaded, and this is my first match in a while in the D9. It was used in a rare way in this match. - Hry
lol, the engine sound like a horror movie sound when u change the view.
Hahaha indeed!
More like a mosquito
@@shadowguardian3612 nice hearing lol
True
This is really a great video. Sad sometimes the view numbers are not always proportional to their qualities. But this is really a greatly done game. We all have similar occasions of losing altitude advantages when trying to suppress a side-climbing enemy, being attacked by multiple enemies that bearly gives you a chance to fight back, or facing more than 3 enemies while you are the only one player. You handled these situations very well and it is just beautiful.
Please keep on to bring us more videos. You win respect from all viewers. I do love your performance-testing videos as well. It is because of these explorations that our understanding of the game grow deeper and deeper
Thanks for the praise!
To be honest I'm exceeding my own expectations for views/subs, I'm not sad at all!
I'll keep bringing content, and I love the performance-testing videos as well ;).
So in a nutshell, war thuner is about who climbs higher :D Fun game :p
Now it's 69k could not have been a better number
All he did was run to his airfield and got lucky works this video is shit
Some guy in a commentary from Dita's channel advise people to come here and see your capacities. You're a goddam Ace Adam.
Hahaha thanks! Thank him for me!
It’s like those films where the bad guys attack the good guy 1 by 1 instead of the more effective ‘team effort’
Almost as if it were staged ;).
Holy crap that was sublime, you flew that Fw190 like a master! Its good to see some more love for the German planes, as I've noticed a distinct US/English bias in some channels.
Hahaha thanks! Germans are indeed the most difficult to fly. Outturned by UK and outsped by US.
I take requests!
@@AdamTheEnginerd but the outspeed by the us is a bit rubbish as the fw 190 were superior in speed and at least a on path
The d13 was an unbelivable good plane basicaly indentical to ta152
But with shorter wings
@@tobiaszistler c3 is ta152 with shorter wings
@@sule.A i know the ta152 C3 and fw 190 d13 are very similar
You are awesome man!
Thank you for doing this!
My pleasure! :)
Adam514 could you do the 229? Very OP plane
HO-LY-MO-LY!! Dude, that was some cold-blooded fighter dueling. You are making use of each and every advantage of Dora not showing any of its weaknesses to the enemy at the same time... WOW, one of the best WT duel films I ve ever seen - instant subscribe from me.
Hahaha thanks for the sub! Feel free to share with your comrades ;).
I watched this video for the first time 2 years ago: after all the rage and frustration, I finally got it. Thank you ADAM, you make this game beautiful for a lot of us.
The best pilot I've seen in a long while.Keep up the good work :P
Thanks mate!
Even a 5 year old video can still be useful today to help
wauw, This player is insanely good!
Haha thanks man!
You are a great player, but you also got extremely lucky imo. Those .50 cal shoudn't have spark, twice I might add, but they did. GG.
Thanks! I disagree about "extremely lucky" though, a couple of rounds sparked and they wouldn't have done much damage if they hadn't sparked anyway. I got lucky, but nothing extreme.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Yea, not an extreme luck, but you got off couple of times there with the help of luck, your tail could've been taken out or damaged so that you couldn't pull up or down normally. You could've gotten killed frontally as well in that one fight. Etc. Many moments where it could've gone wrong easily.
I wonder, how often you have had these sort of fights? This looked like 1/50 or /100.
Personally it's hard to get the whole flying knowledge and not sure what to do in certain situations.
damn... flying the D9 for myself at the moment but mastering this machine is an art :D
helped me a lot with your instructions
Glad to help!
God damn adam! You are an ace, thx for upload Fw190 D9 is my fav!
My pleasure!
you make it seem like this plane isn't depressing lmao, truly a great player
Thanks! 190s were changed so much since this, I don't even know if they are better or worse now.
@@AdamTheEnginerd don't worry they're better actually, i'm just worse lol
You are great Fw player! I know that im commenting on the old vid but i just thought that im the only one who can play it correctly. Keep up good work man, your channel is great.
Thanks! No worries, this video is a classic!
After the Dora buff that was secretly introduced in 1.79 im just clubbing in my soviet D9 against spits and P47's.
Yeah Doras and high tier Germany were buffed, new top nation in tier 4 imo.
dang you've never seen messer smitty
@@sworin303 I have seen him. Btw is he back?
Not only the nice gameplay, but his explanations even detailed into how to drag mouse is quite impressive
Haha they did? I don't recall talking about my mouse, but it's an old one.
Don't know how many times I've watched this but it is some of the most gorgeous flying I've ever seen.
Hahaha thanks! It was my first video you watched!
Good thing the red text didn't scare you off ;).
@@AdamTheEnginerd Oh was it? Cool! Is that from memory or does CZcams give you those stats?
That's what your first comment sais ;).
@@AdamTheEnginerd Haha ah I see. That makes sense! So glad I found your channel :)
@@brendannolan2508 Likewise!
I really don't get this. German players are the ones who really need all the help they can get but youtube is full with US planes. :(
This is one of the rare exceptions
What are you talking about? Germany wins 70% of the battles, it doesn't look like they need any help.
Actually, what are YOU talking about?
You know that win ratios are entirely relative and provide ZERO proof for your theory?
When i play the germans the US has 70% win rate.
When i play USSR the Allies have 70% win rate.
Proves absolutely nothing.
Only by mentioning this fact tells me that you have no idea what you are talking about.
If you want to talk about planes performances that would be something else entirely and the Allies have more capable planes performance wise than the Germans for example. They are more complicated machines, harder to make them work.
Since my plea for more german content.
I agree the plane itself is harder to play than soviet, british, and japanese, but harder than american? really?
Of course the win rate means something, it's much easier to play a ''harder'' plane when your team does incredibly well, I am not good at all and even I can do well with german and italians, (also japanese and soviet), since you have ''11'' fighters to back you up, instead of 6 people either playing bombers or attacking ground with fighters.
You just rendered your argument useless. Again.
You have no control over team, good players migrate where they wish.
Also you have no control over "win rate". Show me some official statistics and i will be more impressed (although i suspect that the server win ratio for germans is lower than for allies), your own statistics mean nothing when playing on 3 servers, 40-50k players on and 3k battles going on.. (You do understand this simple fact at least don't you?).
I was talking about something more objective, which you can influence, learning to fly more complex planes (which most of them are still under-performing vs allies but again, i have no problem with this, i have a problem with players who do not recognise this fact).
Being a useless drone with no kills at the end of the match is not "learning".
And this does not change the fact that there are many more videos on US and allies in general, from the english youtuber speaking side and there is a reason for it.
And I suspect Your statistics is wrong, but we are in agreement about difficult planes to fight, and sure, I can understand the need for video variety.
Damn still helpful in 2024 !
The best wt Air RB channel out there ...
Simply amazing !
Thanks man!
That was cinematic, tops off to you!
Thanks!
Oh man.. been watching ur vids lately and all i can say is; ffs u make things look so easy! xD
Haha thanks!
Thank you so much for this! gg
My pleasure!
aguante boca gato
@@perreoagonizante la tenés adentro
3 dislikes from your enemies :)
And haters ))).
Nice, a lot of skill and some luck go a long way
Indeed!
The most masterful one yet
Haha masterful video?
@@AdamTheEnginerd just dominance over the enemy. If I was fighting you there in any one of those planes I'd be like wtf
OMG What a awesome gameplay! I am a new player and i just comes to d9 and this video helps me a lot. Thanks
My pleasure, mate! Stick around for more :).
I just bought d13 and ta152h.Can you give me some advice on these 2 aircrafts?I think d13 is so heavy and hard to control even at high speed.And if ta152h is a good aircraft comparing to 152c?
I've never flown the D13, and the Ta152H is not a good plane, don't waste your time on it. Fw190D9 is the aircraft to fly in high tier German props.
Ta152C isn't good either imo.
Thanks a lot.And you have very good aiming in realitic mode!I always miss my target...How to aim with mg151?
Warthunder ASMR Kills, Love youre videos
Thanks for the love!
niceeee mate, i thought about doing germans, but yeah im going to do Japanese fighters :P
Thanks!
Barely anyone flies Japanese though.
Impressive! So, I'm currently rediscovering the 190A's (specifically the A-5/U2) after neglecting them for over a year. Worse in a vertical then the D-9 and slower too, so I find myself pulling evasive maneuvers angled slightly downwards when I'm in trouble. But flap usage makes it a great defensive flyer - takeoff flaps stay on through basically every maneuver besides a dive. And of course it is brilliant at disposing of unsuspecting climbers. It's usually excellent at dealing with F6F's, F4U's, and La's. And decent at killing all kinds of Spitfires and Yak-9's. In my testing I found that a half-spaded 190A-5/U2 can hold 416 kph in a sustained horizontal turn at sea level - seems like pretty good MER. iirc most of its opposition can hold around 330-350 in a turn. Ofc it can't sustainably turn with them, but is my info correct? Does it have better MER for the first turn or so? My biggest trouble so far has been the P-51D's. I can easily fight a P-51-1 at altitude, but if a D-5 gets to altitude it easily out-performs me. And I do worse than a D-30 at sea level. I generally deal with P-51D's by baiting them to just above 3 km (I know this is a major weakness from my time playing them) and usually they bite, but what should I do if they don't take the bait?
So, about the D-9. That maneuver at 7:50 really showcases its performance in a vertical, especially right after you cut throttle. How's the MER in one of those? And also, how should I fight P-51D's above or below 3 km in a 190D-9? And what about Griffons? Probably just staying high and fast, I think.
Btw thanks for answering all my comments so far.
P.S. the reason I came back to the 190's was that I learned how to fight in shallow climbs and dives by playing the P-51's. Then it suddenly hit me that I was turning super slowly to conserve energy. Then I realized that I didn't even need the turn time of the P-51's. The 190's roll rate and firepower seemed more useful to me, and they have been so far!
Thanks!
Evasive maneuvers should usually be done in a slight dive for any aircraft. Flaps are great indeed, rudder wobble is annoying though.
The A5/U2 may indeed hold a higher speed in a sustained horizontal turn than other aircraft, but its turn time (and radius) will be way worse. Sustained turn speed is only one factor in MER. According to my spreadsheet the A5/U2 has average MER, which is pretty good considering it doesn't have a good turn.
Anything other than a P51-1 will outperform you at any altitude in any category except roll. There isn't much you can do except retreat towards friendlies, or go for the reversal.
This D9 is significantly worse than the current D9 though. This one can barely pull 7Gs, forcing the plane to retain energy. A5/U2 actually has better MER than the D9 when you take into account the better turn.
In D9s you should fight P51Ds around 3km. Lower and higher than that they will climb similarly and are faster. In a 1vs1 it's difficult to beat P51Ds in a D9. For Griffons, your best bet is to fight them at low altitude. At over 6km they are faster than you.
Thanks for commenting!
@@AdamTheEnginerd Noted. Thanks for the good info.
i watch some of your videos and then youtube recommends me videos of actual dogs fighting. good job youtube
Lmao actual dogs?
Man why you are not famous? YOU ARE A GODLIKE ACE
I'm not famous?
Love this vid! can you do a vid about how to fight p-47 when below them since that's happening all too often after patch 1.77.
Thanks!
I think you should just dive, if they follow you down to the deck their performance suffers quite a bit. I'll have a short clip featuring the P47 with an energy advantage over me in a video soon too.
Thanks for the advice, hope I found your channel earlier, looking forward for the clip :)
My pleasure!
This video is absolutely fantastic. Just became aware of your channel. Looking forward to watching more. Do you usually use the pitch up rather than the throttle cut when you want to make an enemy overshoot?
Thanks a lot man! How did you become aware of my channel if I may ask?
Yeah I nearly always use maneuvers to make the enemy overshoot so that I keep my speed for the shots when the enemy overshoots. When I cut throttle it's because a more maneuverable aircraft is on my 6 and I have no hope of running away.
Adam514 Thanks for the advice! Throttle cuts hadn't been working for me so I will definitely try this :)
I mostly fly the 190 D-12 and I had been looking up a few videos about them. I saw yours and I thought "that title is exactly what I'm looking for". I was amazed at how helpful and instructive your video was.
Thanks for the very helpful video! I just got my fw 190 d9 and I have troubles flying it, especially fighting griffon spits I'm always uptiered. :(
My pleasure! Lots more where that came from!
Yeah Griffon Spitfires are a mighty enemy. Run towards teammates if you don't have the enemy advantage.
Thanks for the tip!
You should do another fw190 gameplay! I restarted playing them and they are fun!
They are on my list!
Hey Adam, can you make another video about D9 to see how it handles nowadays ? 😁
Does it still performs the same ?
Awesome !
Thanks mate!
Thank you for, this, just got my d9, this should help me figure it out (does the d9 stock effect how to use these tactics?)
This is a pretty old video, the Fw190s are much better than they are in this video, so it should be significantly easier. Stock planes always reduce the margin of safety, but I seem to mind stock planes much less than average.
@@AdamTheEnginerd ok, that will definitely help me (hopefully) over the 11k repair cost 😅
Wow I don’t even know how to use this plane and your video shows how to do it very well
I've got lots of videos like that!
7:38 im seeing the matrix
Haha why?
Great vid and match! No voice over though? Also how did you do the negative g maneouver to get the first corsair to overshoot?
Thanks! Not much voice in my gameplay videos.
I have a key for negative pitch.
technically speaking the video's great overall, but the part when y'r instincts goes to somewhere.......
Haha!
Damn... nice stuff
Thanks m8!
Let's see Phly play like this.
Adam514, by far most talented pilot on CZcams
Haha thanks for the praise!
@@AdamTheEnginerd It's well deserved! Now stop hating bombers
I refuse!
wow! thank you!
Haha my pleasure!
What a beast
Thanks mate!
God playing with a Focke Wulf feels like you're fighting the plane itself half the time
Hmm you shouldn't force it to do what it does bad, like turn.
Skilled pilot ^^
Thanks!
How is D9 now? I just bought it but idk if it has same play style as other fw's.
It's significantly better than the Fw190As.
The D9 is truly my fav FW190
Yeah it's nice.
How do you climb so fast at 5k meters with 550+km/h speed while still being close to enemies
It's in SPD, not IAS so there's that. Also I WEP the whole way, and only load 20 minutes of fuel.
I am not good at this plane completely but I never thought I'd be encountering an ace like in this.
Thanks, this was back when it was a brick too.
You're a beast
Thanks!
You re a mad man
Hahaha thanks?
I miss the old cannon sounds ;-;
Not a sound guy, no opinion on that.
Nice job
Bro... When you were landing for repairs and sped up the footage... I had no idea you were gonna do that and I thought you were gonna slam that shit into the tarmac, lol
Hahaha I can see why!
wish to be a pilot like you. Hello from Brazil ❤
You'll get there eventually!
Do you use Convergence on the D9 if so what do you have it set at a lot of people say you don’t need to set convergence on the D9 but I’m interested to hear your opinion on the matter
I use 500m now on everything (my convergence is in the description of my videos). Convergence doesn't change much for guns mounted near the center of the plane.
damn - now that's a display of skill
Thanks!
What controls are you using? Ive been trying to use FW 190 in realistic lately but they seem to have crippling inability to follow even slightest movement of the enemy while I try to BNZ. On top of that D9 in particular seems to wobble like a madman during a slightest turn because of instructor
This is an old video where the Fw190D was significantly worse than how it is now. I use the classic keyboard and mouse. Unless they changed something very recently, I don't have the issue you're talking about, 190s feel very good.
What all those radiator and propeller things in 8:34 mean? What do you press to access them? What it changes on plane's performance?
Nice video btw, awesome
Manual Engine Controls (MEC). Yeah it changes the plane's performance slightly.
Thanks!
It is worth to grind for the D12 or is differnce between D9 & 12 just to small? ( I've unlocked the d9 already )
D9 is better at low altitude, D12 is better at high altitude. They aren't very different.
I remember when this the fw 190 D9 was a beast
IMO it still is a beast at 5.3.
QUESTION FOR YOU: Do You play with mouse or with joystick?
Mouse and keyboard.
How's the P47N more dangerous than the P47D?? The both have equal stats except the D turns better. I don't understand their BR ranks
P47N rolls much better as is faster than the D25, and equal speed to the D28. Statcards lie for nearly everything except top speed.
Does D-12 or D-13 climb as well as D-9 I spaded D-12 and it's disappointing is the D-13 same as D-12?
D9 climbs better below 4km. D12 has the same performance as D13 as far as I know.
Energy Retention is really a complicated thing. So, as far as I know its like this. Linear ER, how well you keep energy in a straight line, and MER how well you keep energy in turns. Linear ER is for vertical maneuvers, and is MER for horizontal? Usually aircraft with better MER have overall better retention?
Pretty much, Linear ER is for when you aren't turning, usually when you're going straight and above your top speed.
Linear ER and MER depend on different factors, usually aircraft are good in one and bad in the other actually. Some factors like power helps both, but even the importance of the different types of drag vary significantly between Linear ER and MER.
@@AdamTheEnginerd So there is no 1 key factor in both. All contribute.
@@ynwafanmrks1817 The key factors are different for both.
Aircraft with bad Maneuvering Retention, also have a bad Vertical Retention is it? Ta 152 H1 for example has an excellent MER, but how does it do in thr vertical?
If by vertical you mean looping, it doesn't change much from horizontal MER result.
Hey adam,i have a question:waht keys did you pressed to fly like this in 6:25 - 6:32 minutes??? Elevator and ruuder input or ailerone and elevator???
Negative elevator a lot (you need to bind keyboard keys for positive and negative elevator).
@@AdamTheEnginerd Only negative elevator or rudder/roll also?
What is ideal prop pitch do FW 190s?
do f4u4s have bad vertical energy retention? F2gs?(I guess F2GS not)
Nah, F4U4B would even be good.
190 D-9 vs P-51D-30, which one is faster on the deck?
D30 is slightly faster (1-3km/h), and can hold it longer because it doesn't overheat as quickly as the Fw190D9 at 0% radiator. A speed difference of under 10km/h isn't enough to ensure you can outrun something, at close topspeeds the initial energy advantage will be more important (and dive performance if there's room to dive).
Hm, the Fw190 can reach up to 600kmh and a little bit above ? I only know it from test flying the premium and never went so fast.
Lol, u killed incrusio. He is the one of strongest duelists
I believe that the D-9 had a turn rate almost as good as the P-51 and superior to the P-47, particularly at lower altitude
D9 is significantly worse than P51. Even P47 will have a tighter turn radius than D9.
Respect 190.!!
Thanks!
GG indeed
I agree!
400m convergence on nose mounted cannons? Why not 600m or 800m? Just checking for logic.
Great video btw. The Doras are my favorite German planes behind the 109 G6.
Also, should've shown the winnings post-match. I wonder what that groundpounding F4U got for his 10000+ points..
Doesn't really matter for nose-mounted guns, so might as well keep it consistent with everything else I fly.
Thanks! Ground pounding doesn't even seem efficient for RP and lions, but oh well.
Nice game, i love to make enemies overshoot with the d-13 even tho its not a good plane for that because of the speed.
Thanks!
@@AdamTheEnginerd hey Adam, would you recommend the d9 and ta 152 s in their current state
@@crabbyjungle5670 Yeah they're solid.
Hey Adam, could you do another Video about the D9? I just cant fet it to work. I always get outspeeded by everything, even the first Seafire
Perhaps. You're faster than Spitfires/Seafires under 5km though.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Maybe it was because I didnt have the engine injection
That does make a significant difference.
@@AdamTheEnginerd I would still, greatly appreciate a Video about it so I can see how to play it nowadays. I hope thats not too much to ask for
Probably won't happen anytime soon, your best bet to see me flying it is to request it when I stream.
8:09 beautiful... thanks for your videos mate,they improved my tactics. I found myself in a similar situation "meanwhile I'm last on my team" yak 3 against 4 Japanese players. and fighting them one by one using my plane advantages i managed to win the match.
or a sputfire f mkIX against 7 german players... that was so beautiful and required all my defensive fly skills as they was always above me ( after your videos i have started to use negative Gs very often, and i found a nice trick on spitfire with that) the match ended at the time i was dueling the last k4...never was a fan of spitfires, but that match i one of my best records in 1 vs several enemies
p. s. i killed a fw190 with 7.6mm xD - wing cut...
My pleasure!
Haha glad I was of help!
I'm kinda confused how you use Take-off flap during combat, mostly for those nations who capable in a dogfight or it depends how you fly during combat?
Not sure I understand the question. I use flaps in general to turn better.
@@AdamTheEnginerd but when I play American, I did try to use flaps to turns but it seems I always got ass burned...
@@huycan9518 Maybe your enemy was using flaps as well, or significantly outturns you and flaps weren't enough to even the turnfight.
@@AdamTheEnginerd so you mean I need more speed to catch up with or should I avoid taking turnfight when flying Murica's Plane?
@@huycan9518 Depends on the plane and your opponent. Try once against a particular plane, if you don't succeed then don't try turning against it again.
Hey Adam, how do you control your radiator in mouse aim mode? I thought the instructor had to be disabled to use this.
You go in Options->Full Real Controls tab->Manuel Engine Controls->Toggle a key to activate/deactivate MEC->set the rest of the MEC settings you want to use to the appropriate keys.
There are videos on youtube for this purpose too.
still i don't get it
is there is any other method with the FW-190
For sure, this is not how it's usually used. You need the energy advantage to win a fight with most enemies though, because your turn isn't good.
Damn I wish I could play with you. Teach me your ways 😂😂
Best bet is joining the Discord ;). Lots of videos to learn from though.
Yea I’ve been watching soo many of your videos just to know about the planes I fly (Germany and Japan). And also to learn about the strengths and weaknesses of the planes I’m going against
Oh, and what’s the discord I can join?
It's in the description!
Si supiera Inglés me hubiera gustado jugar contigo eres extraordinario. Saludos desde Puerto Rico...
Gracias!
@@AdamTheEnginerd Wao! De nada
makes me feel weak after i had that ace in the k4 with boosters on
Man I miss that engine sound
Other nearby plane sounds were better too.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Yeah was watching a vid on my channel I uploaded ages ago of me ramming a Zero into a Be-6 cause I had no ammo and remembered the noise of the enemy plane just increasing to bruh levels when you got closer. Old .50 cals sounded really damn good as well. Just waiting for sound mods rn. ETSM perhaps
Looking at the stats, what makes the N more dangerous than the D?
I can't wait to run into you in a game again... I think it would be a good fight!
D28 has better performance, N has better roll currently. At the date of this video though, they had essentially the same performance while the N had better roll.
Im getting better thanks to you... 😍
Glad to hear it!
How is it compared to d-12 and d-13 ?
Better low altitude performance, worse high altitude performance.
I dont understand how they dont hit you when your maneuvering I use these same maneuvers and I always get hit I don't understand
You might be underestimating their speed and turn. I'd have to see an example. I do these kinds of maneuvers all the time, but it needs to be done in the appropriate situation.
Bro you have such a knowlegde over plane. U should be a realife pilot of your country
Hahaha I'm doing something better instead ;).
fw190d is very good plane
It's decent for the BR.
How did you know which was a P47N and which was a P47D when all you see is 'P47'?
At the time of this vid you could the variant of the aircraft when it is being called out in chat.
Adam514 thank you. So is this still a feature?
Not anymore.
@@AdamTheEnginerd That's a fair change.
Man i try so maby tactics but it doesnt work on me what should I do more to play with this I always lose money
Hmm could start by staying closd to your team.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Yeah I thought that but
1st I got this plane 3 days ago in most of my missions my team cleaned floor with them I couldnt even burst.
2nd Every advice says go up I go high but I saw some enemy higher than ne mostly p 47 p51 spitfires. I mean I cant beat them in turn, cant go down they are better at low altitude
3rd These german guns really pissing me off.
Sorry maybe its long but I am losing so much money get killed easily and dont know what to do if you have any advice Ill be. happy
Thanks..
If they are higher than you, head towards teammates for support. Uusally German teams have more fighters, use that to your advantage.
@@AdamTheEnginerd okay thanks adam
Ya'll ever just watch his videos on german planes with Erika playing in the background
Maybe!
@@AdamTheEnginerd you should totally make a song with Erika in the background
I should sing?
@@AdamTheEnginerd oh yes..
lovely plane even if its stock
Stock, it might struggle a bit.
Heyy adam whats the status of d9 after 1.79??
It's great! You can pull 10Gs now, compared to 6 a few months ago. 13mm and 20mm were buffed. It's a joy to fly, Germany tier 4 is very competitive now.
Adam514 thank you becoz i was looking for a good tier 4 plane for jet grinding.
Ta152s got buffed as well, they are very good too. You need to try them all out.