Why 911 owners LOVE the Boxster.
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- Is the Boxster (or Cayman) a real Porsche? I made a video a couple of months ago suggesting they were better than the 911. But what do the people who own 911s think? This video showcases what they really think of Porsche's mid-engined cars.
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I chose a 981 Cayman GTS for its road manners. It is small enough to feel like a sports car. Its handling is predictable, planted and fun. In my opinion it is a true drivers car that puts a huge grin on my face every time I hop in it. Greetings from NZ.
And wow, what a place to drive one! I love NZ.
One more. I chose the Cayman GTS as well. It’s amazing
Earlier this year I came up with an idea of buying a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 - thought that since it’ll be the last N/A flat-six mid-engine Porsche roadster it will rather gain in value instead of depreciate and its price point isn’t as ridiculous as the one for 911s. Also thought that it will be the great fun car supplement for my daily 2022 Cayenne GTS, which I actually consider as the ultimate daily driver.
My local Porsche Center didn’t have demo GTS 4.0, so I test drove the Boxster T and actually totally fell in love with it and ordered the GTS 4.0 without even driving it. The car was just pure, condensed fun, I just couldn’t stop smiling while driving it, it provoked me to do stupid things and inspired my confidence.
Couple of months later I took part in Porsche Experience: Porsche on Track event. On one hand I was happy that I’ll finally drive the 718 GTS 4.0 and see for what am I waiting, but on the other I was afraid that driving the 911 (never drove one before) will totally ruin my experience, will make me feel that I chose the wrong car and maybe eventually change the order. Fortunately it was quite the opposite - don’t get me wrong, the 911 is an incredibly capable car, I’d even say that its limits are way further than in case of 718, it’s also way more confidence inspiring, but at the same time it was just boring and lacked fun. The handling was incredible, but I just felt like the car did everything for me and I didn’t really like it. Maybe it looks different for GT models, but 992 C2/C4S/C4GTS/Turbo S that I drove were just a big disappointment from the fun standpoint. At the same time the 718 GTS 4.0 turned out to be brilliant - it adressed all of the painpoints of base engine 718 - way better sound, way higher power output and above all perfect throttle response and power delivery and also my doubts have been resolved - I didn’t feel the low-end torque deficit that I was afraid of in the N/A car as I’m used to turbocharged ones and didn’t feel the difference in weight, it handled just as good as the T model.
Couple of weeks ago I got an info that I finally have an allocation for it and I know that on Dec/Jan I’ll receive a car that will be the EXACT answer to what I was looking for.
Such a great story. I’m desperate to try a Cayenne GTS for the same reason you describe. What’s staggering is it’s also a rather capable off-roader. Thanks for taking the time to write. Stories like your are really valuable. 👍
Amazing !
One day, like all great Porsches, the Boxster will get the full recognition it deserves. By far one of the best drivers cars to exist, have owned two now and love them.
People who bash them are just miss informed, often never been in one.
Very true - on all counts.
I have to agree with you. I’ve had both platforms and the mid engined platforms are more fun to drive, more affordable and offer useable power on the road. I still prefer NA flat 6 engines so the newer stuff is not as appealing but the 4.0 liter engine in the GTS and GT4/Spyder trims in the 718 may be the best there will ever be.
I reckon you're right, Scott. The last of the great mid-engined ICE sports cars.
What captures it for me
is the comment that you no longer need a 911 to fulfil your porsche dream. I had 3 gens of 911 and am now in GTS 4.0 Cayman. It is special, fast, delicate and has brilliant sense of quality. I absolutely adore it. I still want a 911 though, but a small one, something like the 997.2. The power of the 911 spell.
The Porsche badge has been burned into my brain for decades. And of course like many/ most people, that meant owning the iconic 911. However , when I began my search over 2 years ago, it became clear to me that the Boxster S provided everything I was looking for in a sports car. I’ve never once felt as though I “ settled “ and have not regretted my decision for one minute! Cheers !
Good on you, Hal. It’s taken me many years, but I feel exactly the same. Porsche’s mid-engined cars are definitely their best proper sports cars.
I had a 911 turbo and I discovered I don't like the feel of a turbo due to lag. When it was time to get a new Porsche I went to Atlanta Porsche experience center where they offer mid engine vs rear engine, so they basically give you half time on a track with a 911 and half time in a Boxster. I loved the Boxter so much that I bought one. The fact that manual.gearboxes are only offered in a boxster made it a no brainer for me.
Good for you, Jose! 👍
The 992 911 Carrera CTS has a manual.
I switched from a 997 Turbo manual to a 718 Spyder manual. Just so much more fun!
@@Patrick-jc9pbthe 718 Spyder is a such a great car. There was 4 of them at VIR when I was last there and stared at them all day in the paddock. I just bought a 992 911 Turbo in PDK but still have my track car which is a manual with 850hp. Lol
I'm likely about 5-6 years away from being able to financially responsibly own my first Porsche. You've made a pretty good argument for the 981 Boxster or Cayman. It checks the boxes for me: 1. Affordability, 2. Driveability as a potential daily driver, 3. Cargo space for weekend trips, 4. Looks, they look amazing. As I turn 50 and have worked my butt off, I look forward to enjoying more experiences during my midlife. Thanks for your videos addressing the practicality and emotional side of why you purchased your 981.
Good on you, Marcos. I’m glad to have helped - if only a little. Life is short. 👍
Do it. As quick as you can. I’m 54 and got my Spyder 7 months ago. Finally a stretch for me, but don’t care. The smile it keeps on my face is literally priceless. 😊
@@kennethherskind2250 The Spyder is a thing of visual and mechanical beauty. I adore it.
@@peterfritzphoto I’ve never experienced a vehicle before that has such a complete combination of refinement, power, beauty and specialness. It’s peak Porsche IMO.
@@kennethherskind2250 I haven’t driven it, but I’ve watched enough videos about it to know it’s iconic.
I have a 986 S . This by far the best sports car for over all performance and driving experience I have owned.
I've had M3's , fast Audi's & driven a few 911's Including a track day. The Boxster is the only car I've owned that makes me feel great about driving & is an event each time I take her out. Love your videos .
After driving hundreds of cars, I feel exactly the same way. Thanks, Simon. 👍
981 Manual owner here. Spot on!!
"Such a glorious sound" I love how in touch with your senses you are! That little Boxster is so freakin' cute, who cares what brand it is?!!
Have owned my 2011 Cayman S 987.2 PDK in red with clear engine cover and detailed intake for 7 glorious years and counting. Love the shape, size and weight and something not talked about much - uniqueness. I see 911's every day but very rare to see a Cayman. The tighter the turns the more I love it.
You make an excellent point, Russell. I saw a 987 Cayman on the road a few days ago, and it's the first one I'd seen in months. Also, I just looked up clear engine covers on the Cayman, and wow!! If I owned a Cayman, that's the first thing I'd do - it looks amazing!
Had several sports cars but our 981 2.7 is the best handling car we have driven. It brings a big grin to my face every time I see it. Looks fabulous too, what more could we want? Nothing!
Ditto. I just finished fitting a red, full-width rear led light bar under the spoiler. Looks amazing.
video on this please! @@peterfritzphoto
The difference between the two is fundamental. I was finally able to buy my first Porsche this year after 40 years of lusting for one . The rear engine layout of the 911 brought me back to the first car I drove almost half a century ago, the VW beatle. With all the car's development and sophistication it still has that VW feel. The 718 does not have that feel. It is an extraordinary car as well for those seeking a mid-engine drive. Choose the one you like and you will be making a good decision with a 718 or a 911.
Well put, Robert.
Thanks Robert, the main différence is the Price 😅 and This makes the différence. So I finally bought a 981 GTS 😊😊
@@stephaneallroad8789 Good for you, and have fun driving it.
I've owned a 2015 981S for 4 years and have absolutely loved it. Currently it has 32K miles on it and has been complete perfection. But I still struggle with the intense desire for the 992T. This has become a spiritual battle within me of learning to be satisfied with what I already own and resist being greedy. I think about trading by Boxster for a 992T but just can't bring myself to do it. I am very blessed to own my Boxster S and consider it a forever car. Great video.
Oh, Keith, I know exactly what you mean! The 6-cylinder mid-engines cars are truly the best Porsches for driving enthusiasts, but the pull of the 911 is undeniable. The way I’m managing this is to set the bar so high (GT3 Touring), that I’m ‘forced’ to keep my Boxster and remain grateful for its fabulous qualities. I figure by the time I justify the GT3-T, I’ll just keep both.
That's a good strategy, Porsche brother!@@peterfritzphoto
Blessed enough to have had owned a 992 Carrera S Manual and 981 Manual previously and traded the 992 for a Spyder…mid engine is so much more fun, great review.
@@robertgregory1927 Thanks very much, Robert. Yum… the Spyder.
Thanks for the great video! I will be picking up my Boxster GTS 4.0 in about 2 months from now. It will be my first Porsche ever and I am so unbelievably excited about that. Can't stop imagining the moment of me standing in front of this brand new car getting unwrapped before my eyes...
Oh, wow - that’s fantastic! What an amazing first Porsche; about as good as it gets, actually. I’m really happy for you!
After having owned both a air cooled 911 and then a Boxster S I have to totally agree with this sentiment. The Boxster is a much better roadster. Having owned multiple roadsters of all brands since I first got my license over 50 years ago this is the first time I never even thought of selling the car. I purchased my Boxster new in 2006 and have never even thought of going back to a 911 or any other car.
I have a 987.1 Cayman S and a 997.1 911 Turbo. Aside from the same brand and similarities in appearance, they are completely different vehicles. The Cayman is Fun to drive. It’s light weight and the rear end comes out nicely when you want it to. The 911 Turbo is just a beast in a straight line and I don’t feel comfortable hammering on the throttle in tight corners like I do with the Cayman. Your description is simply bang on…….they’re just different. The main reason I have a 911 Turbo is to fulfill a childhood dream. The 911 will always have a special place in my heart. The Cayman is special too…..but that’s because it was my first Porsche. What can I say, I love them both.
Sounds to me like you have the perfect pair, Kim. Bravo! 🙂
@@squicker That’s AMAZING! Love the S2000! I had a MR2 Turbo (heavily modified making 604whp. That was (and is) still one of the most fun cars to drive. I had to sell it because it didn’t have and AC and I got married. The words “Wife” and “No AC” don’t go well together. 😂
@@squicker haha! 100% agree. Although, my only argument to my wife was that it was plenty “chill” enough going down the 1/4 mile strip in 10.39 seconds @136mph. 😂
@@squicker you have amazing taste in cars. I would also love to get my hands on a GT4. I drove a GT3RS at the track in Fontana several years ago and fell in love with it. My pocket just isn’t deep enough to own one unfortunately. As for your friends that say GT4 over S2000, I think they associate faster with fun. My Cayman is fun…..but my 1985 Corolla GTS (aka AE86) was a hell of a fun time with only 110hp. I wouldn’t do it today but sliding the rear end on the streets was a ton of fun. I grew up with 90’s era Japanese cars so I certainly love them even though they don’t compete with todays cars. That’s what makes them so much fun though. They’re raw!
@@squicker The S2000 is like a Swiss watch. Gorgeous machine.
I'm enjoying your channel. Only just discovered you (recently bought a 718 Cayman S and was trawling for content about them) and really like your videos. Great channel, and I look forward to more vids.
Thanks very much, Ian. I love your channel profile: "Northern, belligerent. Mechanically inclined."
As an owner of both I 100% agree! The Boxster is a better car than the GT3 for almost all situations. The GT3 is incredible on the right road or a track, but I would grab the keys for the 718 GTS 4.0 any day of the week. Had a 981 Boxster S before that and loved it so much I ordered the GTS. Heartbreaking that we are almost at the end of the line for ICE Boxster/Cayman - get them while you can.
It’s the end of an era, for sure. Thanks for this wonderful insight, Garner.
Do you have a manual or pdk GTS?
I bought a CPO base manual Cayman in 2019 with low mileage. With a conservative tune, larger brakes from a wrecked S, coilovers w/ adjustable sway bar endlinks, wider tires and an alignment close to the GT4 it’s is more than enough for any public road. It’s a lot of fun and lite weight for a modern car. Does it have turbo lag, yes however it can be greatly reduced by how you drive and a few inexpensive mods. Plus on road trips I can get 32-36mpg (US gallons) in the mountains. Such a fun and comfortable car to drive.
Yes, on public roads, where we all drive, the Cayman and Boxster are perfect. And turbo cars are so easy to tune for more power. My mate’s MKIV Supra puts out 1,000 RWHP, with just tuning and bolt-ons.
I sold my 911 turbo s cabriolet for a 718 Spyder 982. Everyone thought I was crazy. lol. 2 years later I have zero regrets.
Good on you, Glenn. I always admire people who ignore the crowd and go their own way.
I have a PDK 992 and a 6MT 982 in the garage and 9 out of 10 times reach for the Cayman keys over the 911 unless I’m taking it to a track day. The Cayman is just more enjoyable on public roads; largely because of the manual transmission, but also because of the size and feel. The 911 on the other hand is unbelievably good on the track, but I still often choose the Cayman for track days since it asks more out of me as a driver.
Always appreciate comments like this - informed by real-world experience. Thanks for sharing.
Fantastic videos on this subject. Professional, insightful and 100% correct.
Thanks, Kenneth.
Nice job on your Boxster reviews. I’ve owned three 911’s and loved them. Then I added a 1999 Boxster to teach our children to drive a manual. I taught our daughters how to autocross in it and realized that I also got hooked to the balance with the mid engine.
The next one was a 981 Cayman and now we have a 718 GT4. I still love 911’s …but love the Boxsters and Caymans more.
Thanks for the kind words. And thank you for your real-world insights. It's so amazing that you taught your daughters drive manual and autocross in a Boxster. Coolest dad.
I had Cayenne Hybrid, a Panamera Turbo S with a V8 engine, also both 991 Carrera 4S and 718 Boxster 300hp and recently I bought a brand new 718 Boxster S with 350hp, he is in fact more drivable than the 991 I can even say that all in the 718 even being a four cilinder he is most of the time faster and balanced chassis. never drove a Boxster 981, definitely should be amazing, but I can say that the 718 four cilinder is a hell of a car and yeah I do agree with you Peter.
I have both. A 2012 991.1 S and a 2014 981 Boxster. I honestly love both cars for different reasons. The 911 is my dream car and the thrill of driving it never fades. The sheer power and that NA sound is intoxicating. The Boxster is just plain fun. Always puts a smile on my face. The biggest decision most weekends is which one we take for our drives through the mountains. We are taking a bucket list road trip in the Boxster in April down the east coast of Florida from Amelia Island to Key West on the A1A, then back up through Alligator Alley to the West Coast for the return trip home along the Gulf Coast. Almost 2000 miles in 5 days. It's going to be a blast!!!
It sounds to me like you're living life exactly as one should - intentionally. I hope you have a wonderful trip, and thanks for sharing a snippet of your life. 🙂
@@peterfritzphoto thank you. Trying to live life with memories not wishes...
@@theroadlesstraveled2980 Wise man.
Great video and agree with a lot of what you've said. I'm a convertible guy so I've never lusted over a 911 - they look awkward to me in convertible form so I've only ever really had eyes for the Boxster. I've driven a 987 and a 981 and honestly apart from the 981 definitely feeling more premium and special, I found the 987 to be the better driving car. The 987 had a more raw feeling, recalling cars of yore which appeals to me, where as the 981 seemed a little too polished. Both types are fantastic though and both are very special.
Thanks, Christopher. Sadly, I’ve only driven a 987 in an urban environment. I’d love to try one on some of my favourite mountain roads. Hopefully one day. 👍
When i was on the market for my first Porsche 7 years ago i was choosing between a 2009 997.2 C4S Cabriolet and a 2013 981 Boxster S. Thankfully my daughter said the 911 rear seat was too claustrophobic and I've been loving the Boxster ever since.
Good for you, James! I agree with your daughter - the back seat is useless for anyone over 3.
Spectacular photography! I’ll be picking up my Boxster GTS 4.0 this summer, so I’ll let you know my impressions. Thanks Peter!
My dream car! Congratulations! Thanks for the kind words.
I had a 993, Ocean blue, lovely car solid car, built like a tank. You could feel the boxer engine when stationary at traffic lights vibrate the car as if alive. I do miss it, but prices , even from a few years ago are now too much. Today I have a lovely amaranth red 981 Cayman S with all of the options of a GTS-sounds great and sounds similar on start up to the 993. Lovely looking car especially from the side and to my mind at least, quite reminiscent of the 993. Both great cars. Great incisive thought- provoking videos you are producing Peter.
You describe that so well, Dakah. Yes, I’ve seen many 993s here in Australia going for more than $600k. Thanks for the kind words, and thanks for sharing.
Completely agree Peter. 4 years in and still absolutely love my 981 Cayman S. I normally get that itch at 3 years, but can honestly say I have no intention of changing it, not even for a 911. A 4.0 GTS cayman or Boxster could tempt me if my numbers come up! It also helps that it’s not my daily so always feels special on those sunny weekends. 😎
I feel very much the same, Steve. Mine only gets used to visit my dad in the mountains, or my mum down the coast - with the odd exception being a solo blast out into the countryside. Each time I look at my car, I see a more exciting design than the 911 from every angle except possibly dead-rear. Like you, I think my next Porsche sports car wouldn't be a 911; it would be a 4.0-litre Boxster or Cayman.
My 2023 Spyder is completely insane. I drive it every day here in San Diego.
It’s better than a 911. 911s are SO COMMON here in San Diego compared to either a Boxster or Spyder. People literally walk up to my car and start taking pictures.
Plus, the Spyder is the best balanced and most beautiful Porsche you can drive today.
Completely agree - on all counts.
Love seeing your videos and your thoughts are the same as mine, I've owned a (Boxster's) 986, 987, and now a 981, I have loved them all and they have just got better after every model update, not sure if I'm ready to move into a (basic) 718 though may be tempted by a GTS 4 (PDK)
Thanks, Steve. Yes, a 718 GTS 4.0 would be perfect for me, too.
As a potential buyer who wanna makes dream come true, I appreciate your conclusion to reassure me that either a Boxster or a Cayman would better fulfill my dream. I've had disappointing experiences test driving different Porsche models that they left me with an impression "What? Is this it? Not impressive as expected." Now I know what I want is something that can offer me with more driving pleasure yet fit it to urban daily life, I think I've got a solid answer here.
Thank you, Agnes. I'm glad I was of some help.
I jumped from a 718 boxter (amazing car) to a 718 Spyder 4.0MT. Then I did the Mid vs rear engine at the Porsche experience center Atlanta. I must say, that it was a lot of fun. The 992 felt so powerful, comfortable and planted though I did drifts and skids, the 718 was so much more playful, light, analog and edgy. Different strokes,for different folks. I’m in my late 40s, so,I think I’ll stick the 718 Spyder for now though a raw 997 is so tempting.
Sounds like a tonne of fun! And I totally understand your insights. For me, a late 911 would be a great cross-country GT. For the mountains where I drive, though, I reckon the mid-engined platform is bang-on.
I’ve been driving a base 987.1 for six years. I’ve ridden in - and driven - many friends’ 911s, and they have their own appeal, but I would agree - the boxster is such a fun driver’s car, even with the one I own being the base model gen1 987. I live in the hill country of central Texas, and the winding roads and beautiful vistas are the perfect environment to enjoy sporty top-down driving eight months of the year (and top-up driving in the hottest and coldest months). The practicality of two trunks is just the icing on the cake. I no longer aspire toward a 911. After watching a couple of your videos, the 981 seems like the target I should be thinking about next.
Thanks for dropping in, Andy. A photographer friend of mine in Texas shoots a lot of landscapes, but until I saw his work a couple of years ago, I didn’t realise how incredibly diverse and STUNNING the landscape is over there. What a place to own a Boxster! As for the 981 - yes, I think this is the model series to have - unless you can justify the 718 GTS 4.0. But really, the 981 is so damn good, the price jump to the 718 won’t be worth it for most. Take a look at my most recent video about upgrading from the MX5 to the Boxster; it offers some more insights (and some nice audio of the 981). 👍🦘
Your video on the Miata-to-Boxster was the first one of your videos I watched. We owned a 1999 Miata for many years and loved it!
I’ve enjoyed 5 911’s incl. 997’s, Turbo S etc. 992’s are comically large GT cars, unusable power, too big for UK B roads. But if you need to ‘scratch the itch’ the 911 is an icon. I ‘upgraded’ to a 718 Boxster GTS 4.0 as its Porsche best modern sports car; small, light, N/A 911 engine (unavailable in a new 911 unless it’s a GT track model at insane prices) with perfectly placed knobs & buttons. Modern 911’s have tech you will never use with distracting touch screens. 718 GTS 4.0 hard or soft top, PDK or manual are going the way of the Dodo and destined to be a Porsche classic…snap one up while you still can.
Your sentiments are spot-on, Neil.
Comically large? The 992 911 is 2 inches wider and 5 inches longer than my 981 Boxster. The footprint in my garage is basically identical for practical purposes. Comically large is a ridiculous exaggeration. And yes, they are both great cars.
I had a 2017 991.2 911 S Cabriolet which I LOVED! But an unfortunate hydroplaning incident left it totaled. 😢. I recently purchased a 2015 981 Boxster GTS a few months ago and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE this car! More so than the 911 as in a drivers car perspective. I will say the 911 was a bit more comfortable and definitely more of a “GT” car, but the Boxster is so much more fun to drive that it more than makes up for it!
That's so great to hear. Thanks for stopping by!
Most obedient car I have ever driven I'm so glad I didn't wait till I could afford a 911
That's a very good way to put it. I completely agree.
I'm with you Peter. I would love a 911 too but not if it means parting with my 987S Boxster. What a machine! Driving nirvana!
We’ll said, Shaun.
2014 Base 981 with upgraded Fabspeed headers, Borla catback exhaust and 100 shot of Nos. on 20" Carrera S rims. 2800lbs and 400 horses.
Woo-hoo! What a machine! Where can I see photos or video?
I’m in the market for a Manual 981 Boxster. Better than a 911 ? Perhaps more practical and compliant than a 911 & easier to drive at its limits … indeed . But not “Better”. Just my $0.02 The Boxster is a fun car that represents “Value” (my subjective opinion). I won’t be selling my 992 GT3 Manual Touring anytime soon. Thanks for the Porsche content - I enjoy your perspective.
Thanks, Andy. This video simply shares some of the many comments I received from 911 owners about their perspective on the Boxster. The overwhelming majority who’ve driven both favour the Boxster. My guess is, if it had come before the 911; if it had always been more expensive than the 911, few would maintain the 911 as the superior car.
I fully agree, I do have a Boxter 987 from 2010 and a 911 Carrera 3.2 from 1987....I will never sell my Boxter.
I opted for a Spyder over a 911 GTS convertible because i just couldn’t get over how good it looked. The reality is that I can barely use a fraction of the capabilities of the car so the power and acceleration of these types of cars are largely academic. I’ve driven 981s and 987s and I’ve felt they give every bit as much driving pleasure as the Spyder. Arguably, they might even give a bit more as they have a better soundtrack and you can use more of the cars’ capabilities. Like Peter, I’d love a GT3 Touring but I can’t get on the list and I honestly don’t think I am missing out on much.
Thanks for your generous contribution to this topic. The Spider is indeed a thing of beauty. I saw a new one at a pre delivery yard yesterday, still covered in plastic, and I almost had to wipe the drool from my chin.
Got a 2023 Spyder myself. Bought it new from Porsche. So happy. Much better than a 911.
Don’t care what the 911 snobs think……
I own a 987.2 Spyder and 997.1 Turbo, love them both! might enjoy more the Spyder!
What an awesome combo!
Another great video 👍
Thanks, JB.
owned 981 base cayman and currently own a 991.2 C2S, agree that 981 drives better than 911 but i stuffed it up when i spec my 981 (went for 20 inch wheel and sports exhaust plus other cosmetics upgrades), no PASM and Sports Chrono, so it rides very harsh most of the time, i sold it after a few months of owning it despite the NA flat 6 right behind your ears sounds absolutely amazing. my 911 on the other hand, is very muted even when sports exhaust, but i do enjoy take my 5 and 2 year old for a joy ride around yarra valley and it is my dream car since 16 years old
You make a good point re the ride. The 911 C2 is definitely a nicer car in that respect.
I like this style of CZcams videography.
Great shots and cinematography, but made by someone who has actually spent their real money and invested time into the car, rather than a reviewer who just points out the physical details or a sensationalist channel filled with shouty fluff
Thanks - I really appreciate that.
Great composition and production qualities.
Thank you.
Oh nooo if you look at the porsche badge at 1:58 while it’s moving it looks like something that references porsche’s heritage
Oh, wow - so it does!! Freaky!
Maybe you’d like to join the Melbourne Boxster Group and come on some drives?
Thanks for the suggestion/invitation, Alessandra. I’d be a terrible member, though. My dance card is always full to the brim.
The midship engine is far superior than a rear engine that’s a technical fact, in a twisty road my Carman do not respect any any 911, fast in and fast out. However on other facets the 911 is made to be superior to a Cayman, having driven both I keep deferring my 911 ownership as the Cayman will be certainly missed.
You made another video about simplifying goals, and I think that concept is very applicable to the Boxster/Cayman v. 911 topic. Market pressures have forced the 911 to become the best sports car and the best luxury car, but something has to give. Part of the compromise is price, but the bigger issue is that the 911 has lost its purity of purpose. The Boxster/Cayman aren't as objectively accomplished, but they retain the traditional sports car virtues in a way that the 911 isn't allowed to. If you want the world's best GT car, it's hard to beat the 911, but I'm not sure if a PDK 4S even qualifies as a true sports car anymore.
Thanks for the thought provoking videos. I've owned 4 Boxsters, and I enjoyed being prompted to reconsider why I love them so much.
P.S. Canon for life!
Beautifully said, Aaron. Bravo. 👍
I came off of a Mazda MX5 (Miata), and two Z3's (2.8 and 3.0) and was looking for a new Roadster (kids are gone, the Roadsters have always been for me my wife). I always thought 911's were cool, but overpriced and over-complicated and heavy. Every one I drove felt like a thousand hamsters on wheels were working in the trunk to keep the car on the road. The moment I took my first turn in a mid-engined 981 in 2013, I was hooked. I agree, it's the perfect car. It's designed the way a drivers car should be -- engine in the middle, perfect balance, turning around the middle axis seamlessly, controls all just fall-to-hand. Really spoils you and ruins a lot of other car experiences because they don't compare. My 981 was a daily driver for 7 years, easily handling the snow, slush and ice of the US Northeast as well as the blistering hot summers and glorious springs and falls. She now is restricted to "fair weather" duty. Ten years on with 75K miles, she still performs incredibly, looks great, and hasn't cost me an arm-and-a-leg in service. My buddy asked me yesterday "you ever gonna sell that?" and I replied "why would I?". Thanks again for this and the prior video, oh, and if no one's mentioned it to you yet, stop driving on the wrong side of the road. I know, it's nost just you, but please tell everyone in Oz I asked 'em to stop.
Absolutely brilliant, Richard! And yes, I’ll pass on your request. 😄🦘
Aftermarket exhaust? It sounds great! I LOVE Porsche! If I was loaded, Id have a macan, a GT3, GT4 RS and a 911 Turbo S!
LOL. I'd have almost the same, but swap the Macan for the Cayenne. :-) The exhaust on my car is the factory sports exhaust. I love it, too!
Well. On my search for my wife's 911 that I promised her 25 years ago for her 50th birthday. She decided on a 981 Cayman manual.
Never once regretted it. Everyone LOVES her car.
That's pretty cool. Your wife is *very* cool.
@@peterfritzphoto black w black 20" Carrera wheels. 👍
Spent two years charting my arguments of getting a 911 or a Cayman. Ended with a 987.2 Cayman for its rawness, hydraulic steering, size & of course that glorious flat six where it belongs, mid engine Mount! At 54, I don’t see selling my cayman it’s a keeper but one day if I’m able will probably get a 993
Good for you, Jody. I reckon the 987.2 Cayman will go down in history as one of the best driver’s cars ever conceived.
@@peterfritzphoto thank you, agreed these cars, as yours, are true driver’s cars and timeless in design! Cheers from across the pond!
Made the same choice. On balance for sure 911 is as good as the boxster, except less money in the pocket 😂😊
Where was that reservoir footage taken? In VIC? Looks stunning
Sure was, Wade. It was shot from Mt Pinninger, at Lake Eildon.
@@peterfritzphoto I’m definitely going to go for a drive up there and get some shots of my car (unfortunately not a Porsche, yet!)
@@wademc8511 It’s an awesome spot - I’ve been there at least 100 times. Keep working, saving, and dreaming, and you’ll be driving your own Porsche up there one day. 👍
How about from s2000 to a 981? I have been owning my s2000 in Sydney for about 12 years now. There was a period of time I really wanna get in a 981 base with PASM. I drove friend's 981 for about 20 minutes. I def felt the difference. All the differences I felt signal 981 as a better car. But I just don't feel like the $$ delta is justifiable. 🤷♂ Curious what others think if you have driven both cars.
I really wish I could help, Kevin. Sadly, I’ve driven every Honda model except the S2000.
@@peterfritzphoto No biggies. When I was driving friend's 981, I definitely felt like it's a more torquey and it is wider hence more stable in the corners. But one thing I like my s2k better is the width. I think perhaps most people don't care about this. Due to s2000's width being narrower (perhaps the same for MX5), I feel like the wind/action is closer to my shoulder. Just feel more thrilling. Yes, I am a middle size man so perhaps it fits more snug for me to sit in s2k than 981. 981 is quite roomy for me. Also perhaps this is the reason why people laugh at Honda (owners) that car feels fast but not really going that fast. Loll. However fun factor is 100% there despite the speed.
@@mk.h Speed certainly isn't everything. The perception of speed matters far more, and that's part of what makes cars like the MX5 and other smaller sports cars so much fun. I've done 300 kmh before, but I'd much rather do 75 kmh through the corners of a tight mountain pass than four times the speed in a straight line.
@@peterfritzphoto Ohhh totally agree. 100%.
To be fair I really think that statement refers to the original boxter. Similar to the 914 (I think is the name… the little 4cyl thing)…and of course the new ones, anything in the last decade are for sure worthy cars and are honestly the best chassis in its class. And for sure a clear choice for a cayman or boxter in a GTS trim or above. The 4.0 might be the sweet spot value/performance..
Couldn’t agree more - the 4.0 litre would be divine. And yes, The whole ‘not a real Porsche’ position lingered far longer than warranted. It ceased to be true a long time ago.
But how much of it comes down to the fact that most 911 buyers choose the coupe over the Cabriolet? Maybe if you were comparing the Boxster with the 911 Cab, you'd get a different response?
I don’t know - I simply shared what my viewers shared.
@@peterfritzphotoI understand. I just think if you surveyed 911 Cab owners the response would be somewhat different.
I think the Boxster is incredible value for money, at least the 981s were, but as I think you acknowledged the 911 has that certain something the Boxster/Cayman simply doesn't.
And since the 991, the looks of the 911 Cab with the roof up is no longer compromised.
You certainly don't need a 911 Carrera over a Boxster/Cayman, unless those rear seats actually work for you, but I think most people would still prefer to own a 911, even if they may prefer to drive a Boxster/Cayman.
I also think cabriolets are just more fun to own as a weekend car than coupes, unless your focus is track days, yet most enthusiasts have convinced themselves the coupe is the best choice.
IMO, it's simply horses for courses.
If you are buying a car to use everyday, IMO a Carrera coupe is probably the way to go, along with the PDK transmission. I think it is probably easier to live with as an everyday car than a cabriolet, and those back seats are also a very convenient place to put your coat and your briefcase or whatever.
Is a 911 Carrera objectively worth circa 50-60% more money than a Boxster/Cayman? Certainly not. Is it subjectively worth circa 50-60% more? Maybe! Maybe more as a daily, as a car for a certain type of business person where image is a component of credibility.
The 911 is one of the greatest pieces of 20th century industrial design. The 911 represents more than a 'sports car' for many of us
I couldn't agree more. I don't seek to diminish it, or ignore that aspect of its appeal.
I own a 981 Cayman GTS 2015......I would like to learn more about the long term reliability of this car. While it is not my daily driver, I drive it for the sake of driving on the weekends, meaning I never drive short distance and make sure that engine and oil really get up to temp, also I drive mid to higher RPM range, so I avoid carbon build up. Can anyone tell me how good and how reliable these cars are for long term ownership, meaning for 15 - 30 years of ownership, when all service tasks are being done timely.
That's a great question, but a difficult one to answer as they've been out less than 10 years.
i have had 6 911 models and a 986 boxster and a 718 cayman gts. i agree that the cayman and boxster models are superb cars. i only sold my cayman with reluctance and because i found my perfect 911 in a 991.1 targa 4s. it certainly isnt faster or better handling but to me it is a gorgeous car that is more than enough sports car for me and as a taller chap i just fit more comfortably in the 911. the 911 is something special imo but not a better drivers car.
Really insightful, Tim. Thank you for sharing this. 👍
As a first time buyer I walked into my local Porsche dealer and asked for a 992 GT3 and they laughed at me. I ended up with a 2022 Cayman GTS and don't feel the need to move into a 911.
Lol. I tried to buy a new Rolex Submariner two years ago, and was met with a restrained version of the same response. So I bought a Davosa Ternos and a Tissot Seastar instead. Now I don’t really care for the Rolex anymore. The Cayman was an inspired choice. 👍
@@peterfritzphoto. I also own a Carrera but the Tag Heuer one. 😆
@@trigganometry168 Lol. Touché.
So I did the opposite (though not by ownership). I had an OG M2 until recently. Was on the hunt for the most fun car I could reasonably afford, that I would keep forever as ICE goes away. The M2 was a contender. That thing was an absolute riot. Soooo playful and fun, even at reasonable speeds. I test drove 981 S, and 718 base and S. They were objectively better cars. They could take corners FAR faster than the M2...but they were TOO perfect! There was no playfulness to it; clinical, perfect to a fault. Suspect I could have gotten them to be fun, but I would have had to go WAY too fast to do it.
Thought I was going to end up keeping the M2, but I decided to try a 911. It was the perfect blend of playfulness of the M2, but with the better chassis, suspension, steering, and manual shift feel of the Cayman. Said another way, it was the Cayman, with the fun injected back into it. It was the perfect option for me. Ended up going 991.1 C2, and glad I did! I may get a Boxster in the future to complement it, but I'll likely go for ND2 Miata instead at that point.
VERY interesting, and the way you escribe it makes sense. Also, the M2 is easily one of the best looking cars BMW has ever made. And I'm starting to think the 991 is actually a lot more desirable than the 992. I might just have to get one one day after all... Thanks for sharing your experience.
@@peterfritzphoto Just for added context: My Cayman test drives were serious ones, "here's the keys, take as long as you need, let us know if you need anything." As for 911s, I test drove a 997.2 C2S, 991.1 C2 and C2S. I didn't drive a 996, any variety of Turbo or GT, or GTS (Cayman or 911), not that I could afford those higher end versions.
Point is, I drove a LOT of examples. If it wasn't the 911, I would have tried a few other cars, but likely would have stuck with the M2.
@@dBsdecibels It’s great when you find a car that just feels right. My all time favourite is the original NSX manual. Perhaps one day.
@@peterfritzphoto Thought about one of those many years ago, back when they were $40-50k. They're probably out of my range these days. Definitely would be a contender though!
@@dBsdecibels I made exactly the same mistake. Now the cheapest manual I can find is $160k.
I’ve owned a 987 Cayman, a 718 Boxster, and have recently purchased a 718 Spyder. I’ve frequently driven (but have never owned) 911s and from the 991 onwards I’ve felt they’ve gotten too big. The Boxster/Cayman platform is superior in my eyes, and with the 718 Spyder there’s no comparison!
Quite true. I saw an aerial image last night of a G Series next to a 981 Cayman and 996, and couldn’t believe how tiny the G Series looked. The Spyder is the GOAT.
My father passed away a few weeks ago and was also a Porsche fanatic. We saw the 718 Spyder unveiled at Goodwood together in 2019 and both fell in love with it. It felt like a fitting tribute to buy one in his memory. I know he’d have a massive smile on his face knowing that I’d bought it. Life’s too short, follow your dreams ❤
@@nathanjacobs5901 I’m really sorry to hear that, Jacob. I dread losing my dad… But what a fitting tribute; very special indeed. The number plate on my car represents the first initial for my dad, me, and my son. Take care, mate, and enjoy many, many drives in your dad’s honour.
Hands down, a 992 is a better can than the Cayman or Boxter outside the GT cars. The real question is if it is 2x better as the price it commands is about 2x the cost. There I would say, no. But the 992 is still in every way the better car.
I’m afraid many 911 owners disagree with you, mate. I love the 911, but the mid-engines cars are more thrilling to drive on switchback mountain or coastal roads. For urban or GT driving, I prefer the 911, but that’s not how I use a sports car.
@@peterfritzphoto Have had this debate with Porsche enthusiasts and the kink in the analogy is that my opinion is not on the 911 but the 992 - 911. I drove all and settled for a Cayman S because it was the one I could afford, but the 992 - 911 is really by far superior. I rented one for three days to drive on country roads where the speed limit was 100km per hour but you simply can’t drive much faster. The 992 was king, especially in the rain on WET mode, it was better than the 718 GTS 4.0 I was driving together with. Any 911 below the 991.2 I agree fully, Boxer or Cayman 718 is the better car.
@@Adrenaliving I’ll have to defer to you on earlier 911s. I’ve only driven the 992 and 964. I also rented the 992 for three days, and drove it 800km across the Victorian High Country, Melbourne freeways, and coastal roads. I then bought the 981 and drove the same roads. My video on that 992 experience is called ‘3 Days with an Icon’. Regardless of which Porsche we buy, we still win, anyway! 👍😄
@@peterfritzphoto saw that video! Was one that triggered me as I was walking the same path. Looking for a Porsche and wondering which is best value for money. There the Boxter/Cayman is extremely good value especially second hand. Here my car which is 7 years old cost less than half of a new one if you order the same spec now. Car inflation has been crazy! My car new was 42k in euro cheaper than the same car new now.
I enjoy your videos a lot, hope you keep them coming!!
@@Adrenaliving I certainly has been. I sold three cars that I’d owned for years - all for sizeable profits. Nuts.
Amazing sound! Which year/spec of Boxster is yours? Stock exhaust?
I agree, Brendan - I love it! It’s a base model 981 with factoryPDK, Sport Chrono and sports exhaust.
992 is the ample bodied iconic, prestige adult Porsche. 718 is lean, reflexive and rebellious. Someday, when I'm all grown up I'll give up football for golf and my Boxster S for a 911.
Haha - well said!
How do you feel about 987’s?
I love them, but for safety’s sake, would only buy a post-2009 model. I do prefer the styling, proportions, and on-road presence of the 981, though.
Boxster/ Cayman are also really nice cars…although they don’t give me the same positive thrills like the 911. The looks of the 911 are also way better to my eyes than Boxster/Cayman. AND I like the feeling of the motor in the back more rather than in the middle…
911 expensive…unfortunately
I agree. The 911 remains the best looking design. Ever.
@@peterfritzphotonope. 718 spyder is better! 😜
I’ve driven alot of Boxsters including 986, 987 and the current 718 GTS 4.0 and have only driven one 911 997.2
To be honest they all have different characteristics unique to them selves.
However from my experience I preferred the classic grand touring of the 911 the power out of corners and the precise steering giving you several options mid corner. It felt very sure footed and comfortable on the freeway. Conversely I must be the only one that wasn’t impressed with the 718 GTS. It was nice sure but felt like it lost the raw feeling of earlier Boxsters and did not feel as comfortable on the open freeway as the 911. Sure it’s better on twisty roads.
Personally from my experience I prefer the 911
I totally understand, Fred. Out on the highway and on fast b-roads, the 911 is awesome. And then there’s the looks! But on tight mountain roads, where I drive, the Boxster is a standout. There might still be a 911 in my future, but the Boxster continues to impress every time I wring it’s neck in the High Country.
@@peterfritzphoto I am looking to drive or buy a 981 to see what it’s like. But even if I had the money for a 718 GTS 4.0 like $180K or so I wouldn’t buy one preferring an older 911 or maybe other car marques like Mercedes etc
@@fredsalfa You’ll only know once you drive them. We build up ideas in our mind about things, but it’s only when we experience them that our opinions have weight. And sometimes, we’re surprised just how wrong we were. A good example is holiday destinations. There’s even a term for it: Paris Syndrome. 😄
Owned both Caymans and various 911s. I have only kept 2 - a 981 GTS (PTV PASM PSE SC) and 991.2 GT3 RS both are magnificent drivers cars in very different ways. Many of the truly great Porsche sports cars are from the Cayman/Boxster family e.g. 987 R, 987 Spyder, 981 GTS, 981 Spyder, 981 GT4, 982 GTS 4L, 982 Spyder, 982 GT4, 982 GT4 RS - all are NA, all will turn on a dime. Most knowledgeable Porsche owners know the good "drivers" cars and of the 911s its really the GT dept. cars e.g. GT3 or GT3 RS (or direct derivatives there of 991 991 R).
Thank you for this illuminating insight. One thing I’ve noticed (and frankly, expected) is that most people who poo-poo the Boxster and Cayman have never driven one. You’ve owned two genuinely God-tier Porsches. 👍
@@peterfritzphoto A lot of sensible Porsche owners e.g. those with nothing to prove, know the Cayman and Boxster platform is very good and you're right, there are a lot of people that have never driven them and will talk them down. Better to drive a "slow" car fast than a fast car slow.
@@VK6AB- That last sentence. 100%.
Short question after hearing that exhaust sound, do you have a sport-exhaust? 😊
The factory one, yes.
Well, at least you can fit a small DSLR and travel tripod in it 😂 take care, buddy!
I thought most variants of the Boxster had 4 not 6 cylinder engines?
Only the current 718 generation - and only the base model and S models. The GTS and Spyder versions are sixes. Mine is the 981 generation, and they were all sixes.
Great vid! Another Melbournian here - your 981 has PSE right? Have you,driven one without PSE? And if so how quieter is it? I’ve got a manual 987.2 2.9 and it’s so quiet. Can barely hear it,in the cabin under throttle. I’m seriously considering a /981 for a few reasons but mostly want something with a better soundtrack. Cheers
Hey, Amanda. Yes, it has PSE. I haven’t driven one without, I’m afraid. You could always get one without it and go aftermarket. 👍
When I was looking for my car, the sales guy took me out for a ride. As we got in he gleefully exclaimed "This one has the NOISEMAKER!" and punched the PSE button.EXCELLENT! That pretty much sold me on a car that had way more content than I really had intended. When you don't have the PSE button on, you can hear the exhaust, but it's muted and there's no burbles or pops on downshifts. When you put it on (and it comes on automatically with SPORT), it's noticable from the cabin even with the top up and you find yourself encouraging it on downshifts. I have the 3.4L engine and I like the sound, but it's no where near as dramatic as some of the "full time" sports exhaust approaches (aftermarket or OEM). I do love that I can turn it off if I want a little quiet in the cabin (ie, I'm married), but sometimes I'm a little envious of other guys with louder gear. If you want louder gear all the time (and have always lusted after a Subaru WRX), there's always the 718.
@@blackmanxrjc Yep, I love the Noisemaker on mine! And that I can turn it off when I want to cruise in relative silence.
I recently moved from a 2002 911 996 Targa to a 2014 981 Cayman GTS. The Cayman is a much better balanced sports car & I’ve driven extensively on track & ‘fast road’ use in UK & Europe. If you look at what Porsche have done with their GT3 pro 911 RSR cars that race Le Mans, they’ve made them mid engined! I rest my case.
Great point!
Had various Porsche over the course of the last 25 years and loved my 996 gen2 stick shift. However, the Porsche I loved most to drive on backroads and mountain roads was my GTS4.0 Boxster stick shift… the 98x mid engine chassis is for shure the best driving one in the entire lineup of Porsche. Whether you are self confident enough to chose one because it’s better and more fun or are in doubt because of your friends and other people seeing it as the base, non real Porsche is of course a different question!
Thanks for chiming in. The 981 and original NSX manual are two of the most satisfying sports cars I’ve ever driven. And the mighty little MX5.
@@peterfritzphoto …yes, MX5 not to forget…!
You've got a bright future
Thanks, Anfernee! You just made my evening.
The people who know Porsche’s cars know just how good the Boxster and Cayman are. The people who think these are a poor-man’s Porsche don’t know.
100%, and they've likely never driven a Porsche of any description.
Have you considered another generation of 911? like 993 or 992? I always wondered if those are better cars for their price than a 997.
Sorry, Daniel - I don’t follow.
@@peterfritzphoto I meant... have you considered a second-hand 911 from previous generations, instead of a Boxster?
@@daniel.muntean Understood. Yes, I have. I wasn’t interested in the older cars, though; only 991 onwards. The thing was, the cheapest one I could find was more than double what I paid for my Boxster, and in my opinion, wasn’t twice the car. I only drive mine for fun - mostly hard, on challenging mountain roads (like I just did yesterday and today). I didn’t want a GT car. I wanted an agile, perfectly balanced sports car. For my purposes, the Boxster was - and is - perfect. 👍
I have two types of 911 owners around me...1. A hard core driver type who tracks often, need power and can expertly control heavy rear end, 2 who do not know how to properly drive a porsche and do not know much about cars. Basically "bought a brand" not a car and live and die by what brands they have / wear..And judge everything by its price tag.
Only type 2 people "look down" on non 911 cars / owners based on my experience. Oh..i have an 18 yr old 987 Boxster 😂
You forgot Type-3: those who’ve driven neither car. 😉
@@peterfritzphoto A good point...that's my mum and wife...they still think I have a 911 (aka "the only Porsche in existence") as they don't care / know about different models of Porsches 🙂
Don't worry too much about what others think of the car you want. Buy it if you can afford it and if YOU are impressed by what it offers.
Mate, I stopped caring what anyone thinks many years ago.
My 2021 718 Spyder looks better, drives better, and is far more powerful than any 911 I've ever driven. However, the only 911 I've ever driven is a 1981 911SC. I must say though that driving the Spyder is a dream come true, and I have no 911 envy.
And neither should you. The Spyder is an incredible car.
But 911 owners and most people in general will always look down on the Boxsters
No matter how good they are they'll always be seen as the "Porsche with panties" as Ralphie said
Did you watch the whole video and read all the comments from 911 owners? The Boxster (which, on part numbers alone, is 95% 911), receives plenty of respect from 911 owners.
We should sell more 911s so Porsche can afford making cheap Boxters and Caymans. Solved.
My 981 Agate Gray Cayman S with gaurds red interior turns heads on the daily. Escpicially from women, which is rare.
Ooh, what a great colour combo! I once had a beautiful dark blue Mercedes-Benz CLK430 Convertible with the plate FREE-3. A sexy Italian woman once walked up to me in my car and said, “Is the car free, or are you?” I told her I was expensive, but great value…
How to I get my car to the photo op at 5:13? I assume that it's Thopson dam?
Mt Pinninger Lookout - Lake Eildon.
@@peterfritzphoto thanks Peter.
911 owners don't know anything about the Boxster unless they've also owned one.
That’s what this video is all about. Did you watch the video and read the comments onscreen?
Not sure that I agree that 911 drivers "respect" the Cayman/Boxster. Porsche ownership is by and large a hierarchy of snobbery.
Carrera S owners don't "respect" base Carreras.GT3 owners don't respect GTS's.
The Boxster is very nice car (especially the 981) but there is no media ever produced about the junior Porsche that doesn't contain copium-filled "just as good" comparisons to the 911.
It contains those comparisons because those who haven’t driven the mid-engined cars don’t realise they’re actually a superior sports car. I’ve driven hundreds of cars, and the Boxster is at the very top of the pile in terms of driving dynamics, build quality, and packaging. Did you watch this whole video, and read all the owner comments?
But my 718 Boxster T 's 2.0T engine sounds terriable... Every is good, but the engine.
LOL. But at least with a turbo engine, power gains are easy. 😄👍
Unless you just have to have the racing history or the rear engined feel (which is very muted in new cars compared to old), the boxster/cayman are every bit as good (or better), for less. 0-60 and ring times are pretty meaningless in the real world, and a Tesla will humble both anyway. Even Porsche track days seem to be overrun not with 911s, but with gt4s. This isn’t to say the 911 isn’t devastatingly effective. It is. But in marginal ways which are irrelevant on the street.
I’ll finish by saying the boxster is better because it’s usable utility. People are more willing to drive their boxsters, not just because the drive is as good or better, but because it doesn’t cost them as much money to do so. A car too expensive to enjoy fails as a car, in my book (why I’ll never own a Ferrari).
Explained to perfection. 👍
Jrande
The best Porsche never made is a Cayman with a GT3 suspension. Double wishbones & multilink rear. They won't do it. Because nostalgia is a b*tch. The 911 has always had the engine in the wrong place. Have to load the front. All of them suffer from understeer. Lower polar moment of intertia and a much quicker turn in for the mid engined cars. Despite being neutered with Macpherson struts all around. Also has a stiffer chassis like all Caymans vs their 911 contemporaries. Status seekers seek 911s. Drivers look for Caymans with LSDs. Owned a 993, 997 and 987.
So much wisdom in so few words.
Okay guys.... We all know the Porsche Boxster and the Porsche Cayman are way better and way more modern.
The Porsche *and* the Cayman…?
@@peterfritzphoto My keyboard sucks I'm sorry i meant the Porsche Boxster and the Porsche Cayman
@@Vyltax LOL. BTW, I call my son Tommy Boy. 😄
@@peterfritzphoto Hahaha that's amazing!