Is Pogacar Too Good To Be True? | Rider Support
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- On todays episode of rider support a listener questions whether Tadej Pogacar is doping given his performances are so superior to all the other riders in the peleton. More listeners write in with questions around Time Trial Helmets, heart rate training and how to become more in-tune with riding your bike. These question plus much more.
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It sad but the reality is doping doctors are always ahead of the race than the tester.
But rumors about any specific substance would arise, people have been knowing about EPO years before Armstrong confessed. Now, there is no specific rumor about any specific drug. Not even one.
Everything I see, everything I hear, reminds me of all the times I've been through this loop before: amazing performance, could they be doping? No, because of such and such. Advances in tech and science have always justified gains, until the next scandal. The big chainrings and 1x, the fat tyres at low pressures, the speeds exceeding expectations and setting records, the shrapnel of quality riders exploding out the back gesticulating to the cameras about the insane pace; yep, I've seen it all before, again and again. What happened to dope testing during the two years of Covid? Could the inevitable disruption to out of competition testing have enabled teams/riders to dope more freely? (for riders that respond well to doping, performance can be impacted long after a doping programme). It seems that performance dramatically increased when riders returned to full competiton after the pandemic. There's a juicy conspiracy theory for you :)
"EPO? Nah, bro, it's the new $2000 cranks that our sponsor started selling this season! The proprietary internal mesh structure will give you an easy 50 watts, trust me bro. Not that my salary depends on it or anything like that."
Every sport is the same, but cycling is easily the worst offender when it comes to using doped-up professional athletes to market the latest 'revolutionary' batch of equipment. The entire industry would collapse if people knew that 90+% of performance gains came from the stuff that you can't really profit from. You get faster by training harder (and smarter), dialing in nutrition + body composition, and sleeping better. Having a good bike still matters ofc, but not nearly as much as the industry (and it's marketing mouthpieces) would have us believe.
I was talking to a guy from USADA during the Sydney Olympics in 2000. He told me that Sydney Olympics would be the first Olympics with genetically altered athletes. Here we are 25 years later... Nobody can do anything about it.
"Genetically altered athletes", what does that mean?
@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 There’s been a lot of dna therapy studies on muscle growth, blood function gain etc. The focus is medical use. The studies are for helping people with muscular dystrophy, blood disorders etc., these technologies are acquired by athletes.
@@abdul-kabiralegbe5660 Mutants?
@@pabloessgalhardo5317 To me, "genetically modified athletes" probably implies that it is possible to (1) modify the DNA of a living person and (2) for those modifications to be so precise as to gain athletic advantages with little to no side effects. I'm not aware if it's possible in 2023, not to mention in 2000 as claimed.
Yes You're right , the Chinese have mutant GC riders they call them little losers 😅
Doping or not Doping..cycling is a bloody hard sport 😊
It’s a super human show.
Yes but still no excuses to dope or cheat
@@neilberry1552 correct 👍
Gianetti is the manager of Pogacar and he is the drug Lord of cycling. When I see Pogacar cycling up mountains and he does not even break a sweat it reminds me of Armstrong who also did not break a sweat. They are using blood transfusions and new products which the testers have not developed yet. By the way, Eddie Mrycks also doped.
I'm slightly curious about all of these altitude camps in the mix. If you're always at altitude camps you're most likely going to have elevated red blood cells all the time, so where's your baseline for testing? What if you're just micro dosing epo and living high and your rbc is "explainable"?
Zero tolerance needs to exist, and stream the real time rider data in the moment to rule out motors.
And he's not guilty until proven innocent either, I'm enjoying the heck out of the mutant performances. There's just stuff that's the new normal and it all started during the lock down when wada couldn't test. If you had a way to get a free year of no wada tests, seems like a great way to turn a crisis into an opportunity. Same with endurance running.
My hunch is pogo bio passport was tweaked when he was younger to allow for a better range . Hi altitude training on spainish islands where drug testing in Spain as a whole is limited .😅 pogo is a great rider , but all the big riders in recent years have got so much faster compared to their peers . I think they are getting complacent and not even bothered about hiding their gains
Anthony, your naivete is stunning. Testing positive is the only metric for knowing someone is doping? Have you missed the last 30 years of pro cycling?
The doping is ALWAYS ahead of the testing, testing is by its nature a reaction to an action. So what guys are on now there is no test for.
exactly. Poeple talk the same as in the Armstong era. There are new doping products and technics that cannot be detected yet.
💯 these two are either naive or shutting their eyes like people did in Armstrong years. Armstrong didn't get caught till years after because they were way ahead of doping laws tests etc. Its the same here its just all too good to be true
The issue with the tendency to be skeptical of pro cycling being clean lies in its history going back to amphetamine use in the 50's. PED's were not banned until 1965, so it's naive to believe that pro cyclists prior to that time stayed away from them if they were available. Nearly every outstanding multiple grand tour winner since the second half of the 20th century has been implicated in PED use. Accurate testing technology tends to lag the latest doping methods. The scientific tuning of nutrition in contemporary performance enhancement is also a "gray" area. When do sophisticated nutrition regimens drift into PED territory?
Is that a serious question? The answer is when the compound used is on the banned list.
Jonas's tdf time trial was the only stand out performance that made me think is this for real.beating the opposition by miles when his previous time trials had been nothing special and has never been repeated since to the same degree. Let's be honest even the commentators could not believe it!!.
OMG?!?! Pogacar is here there and everywhere... winning in every terrain all the time! Jonas is damned if he do and damned if he doesn't. If he specializes in Grand Tours he is boring (and doped apparently?!) He is best in the third week of af grand tour... This is why he could win that time trail. He also took a lot of risks and had really good bike handling. Jonas never perform excellent in a rested TT. Pogacar however had a bike change which did nothing good for him. I'm not saying that I know which of the riders are clean or not, but it seems to me, that Jonas is just fair game to critisize and enveryone just loves Pogacar. You have to have a breakthrough at some point... Btw. Pogar was destroyed the next day and was dropped by the other main contenders. "I'm gone, I'm dead". This suggests to me, that fatigue had caught up with him in the third week.
Jonas beat pogacar 2022 and 2021 in the third week tt so he is just strong in the third week. Pogacar and jonas are either both doped or clean so who cares
if you look forensically at Jonas' TT on one of the many side-by-side comparison videos online it was clearly far more than simply pushing more watts where Jonas gained time.... Pogs TT looked positively ragged by comparison.
Jonas rode every corner and every inch to absolute perfection and squeezed every milisecond from the course...Pog often looked like he was coasting and loose....huuuuuge difference.
Not a good „proof“. Jonas‘ TT the year before was excellent too and he gained a lot in corners/not changing bikes. Also I‘m not sure that jumping in the pool in the sun was a good idea for Pog on the rest day. And I think Visma has a pretty good computer model of Pog and know how to crack him over the span of 3 weeks.
Even Jonas looked embarrassed 😅, though there were caveats which made that time gap possible , I seem to recall the tdf was near the end so many riders not bothered too much
Yeah man, I'm sure a guy managed by Mauro "doped himself into a coma" Gianetti is one we can trust
Even better, riders were caught in 3 different teams he managed.
There is a reason why they all train in Spain. In Spain they are certain rules for Usada and others anti doping agencies. They are not allowed to test on the weekends and during the nights
Everybody is on the juice. In any sport code. All your favourite(current) superstars are, and legends was on juice. But you need talent, hard work and the right mentality to succeed.
That’s simply not true. If you think every pro athlete has doped than you’re just an *diot
…I was cycling for years with my skiing helmet around Dublin. It has removable inserts, so was good for the summer too and nice and warm in the winter!
Where is the link for that episode you mention on minute 13:10, about test heart rate zone with Joe something?
Joe friel, czcams.com/video/9OdwvV7oZy4/video.htmlsi=oW41J7LMZkWz2NXU
I don't think riders are doping nowadays, not the top guys anyway. But I read an article once about what goes on at altitude camps: diets honed in to perfection to hit target weights, blood tests every few days to see everything is in order, with immediate corrections in diet and training if required, ...
The medical guidance of these top guys has evolved so much that I think it's almost like doping back in the 90's in terms of results if not better (as proven by the performances). And when you pair that with a set of genes that are 1 in a million.... I wish we could just enjoy greatness when we are witnessing it.
In percentage points, how much faster is Tadej than the guys behind him? 1%? I don't think that's beyond the realms of possibility with excellent genes.
In F1 When Lewis Hamilton was dominating, people were saying it was just the car. Now we see the same argument with Max Verstappen, I think it is human nature to try and bring great athletes down.
read that first sentence again... riders aren't doping now... not the top guys anyway... true - so it's just the middle pack fodder who are doping to keep a contract, but then soft pedaling in races so not to trigger any alarm bells.. LMAO
@@MichaelBoogerd That's not what I mean, my belief (largely in line with recent doping positives) is that it's more the guys at pro continental and high-level amateur level that are doping. The pro conti's out of desperation because they're just missing those few %'s to make it to world-tour, and in the amateur level because, well, people can get away with it for the most part as there is very limited testing. Some may ask why would an amateur dope? The same question could be asked about bodybuilders. Go have a look in your local gym, the amount of people on gear is shocking. For no other reason than having a sixpack at the beach. Most of them won't even compete. People are always going to be drawn to it, out of curiosity, desperation, ...
@@erikvanderveken1408 I do agree is must be rife when there is no checks… however to think some guys are just “missing out” and resort to doping to get that extra 1% is missing the elephant in the room that 500+ other guys are somehow “only” genetically better and already had that extra 1% as a gift from their parents - maybe some are - but not all of them. At pro level there are checks - but the controls can’t keep up with the doctors… to think that the top level is completely clean is a really naive perspective… given both the history of professional sport in general and even the confessions of those champions in cycling who didn’t get caught - for 100 years riders have been let’s say supplementing (not doping) be that champagne to take the edge of the pain, to amphetamines to blood doping. Is the peloton clean? Sure - cos no one is tripping the positive test. So it must be clean right? Technically yes, if we don’t count all the supplements and additional products that aid performance that are not banned. Just look at how slow WADA was to do something about tramadol. Imagine 100s of other products like that not on any banned list.
@@MichaelBoogerd you are right, however, if it is not banned, it's technically not breaking the rules.
Is taking creatine doping? What about altitude training? It's a gray area.
Regarding the few % though, I have been active in competitive bodybuilding myself, and one quote I heard from a coach comes to mind: You can't turn a mouse into an elephant. Meaning, that without the right genetics you can take all the gear you want and you still won't achieve much in that sport. I've seen guys on tons of stuff and still look "average" at best and I've seen natural bodybuilders who shit on 90% of enhanced bodybuilders. Genetics do play a huge role.
F1 and cycling surely can’t be compared? How are they ever remotely similar?
DUNBAR NUMBER...150 people...thank you for all the interviews and excellent information...from Chile, South America!!!
The testing has improved X and the unknown substances have improved 10 X. Armstrong was known to have something the others didn't.
I think he is just a freak of nature that comes along every now and again. We have seen him bomb and we have seen him smash...... Pidcock is similar mould just raw talent. 45 years in the sport you get to judge on a certain level. Now Jonas Tour TT last year did shout out loud to me!
Exactly besides Jonas his TT I haven't seen anything very questionable. Also winning from Ganna when the TT ends in a recently long climb is nothing over the top
In that TT Jonas beat Van Aert by 3 minutes if that is not a red flag i don t know what is
Yeah, Vingegaard is the only one doping. Pogacar also smashed everybody else, but he is just better than everybody else at everything all the time, so nothing suspicious at all. And Van Aert is one of Vingegaard's closets teammates, but he is obviously clean like Pogacar and the rest of riders. Everyone knows that Vingegaard is the only one doping and somehow just doesn't get caught.
Thanking that he is racing clean is thinking the Chinese weightlifters are clean. As someone commented if will come out down the road
Look at van der pol he's performing at the same level but in certain races where pog is winning almost every race he enters. The races he is racing are selected carefully. Pogcar also uses his power output at very specific times in races, you don't see him putting in multiple attacks through the day of a race. Evenpol is in the same category as pogcar with evenpol, pogcar, vanderpol, pidcock. Look at Jay vine second year pro from swift winning mountain stages in the Vuelta. There's a decent list forming of high performances coming from a growing group of riders
More likely to be nitrous oxide cartridges than carbon dioxide ones
Pogacar was only 10 secs faster than +5kg Dumoulin and 35 secs slower than pantani. Seems clean to me
Agreed. It was nice to see those times. Hard to know what the wind was like on those days and how it was raced though
Only 35 secs slower than the superdoped pantani......
@@karl880535s slower but with half the rolling resistance and with eating more than half an apple during the stage.
@@karl8805 With vastly superior equipment
@@DaM.1Nonsense, pantan's bike weight was not noticeably heavier if at all.
Thank you, Anthony and Sarah. totally agree: we shouldn't have to dress the part. I'm a mtb'r with my first drop bar bike since I was a kid. The bike was expensive enough... I'm wearing the same helmet. Note: not a full-face 😂
Someone will be the best in the following cases:
1. Noone is doping.
2. Some are doping.
3. Everyone is doping.
The fact that some riders are better than others doesn't suggest they are doping.
Exactly. Also, looking at the potential of a rider (performance at junior level) and steady progression through development surely accounts for credibility. Also, we could expect Pogacar to win with huge margin, as the only top 25 UCI ranked cyclist present at the Giro.
Maybe you can dive a bit deeper into Pog‘s performances compared to clearly doped riders from the past. I have heard in a Podcast that what sets him apart is his lactate clearance. He practically always sprints with fresh legs. This fits along the lines that he is especially good in shorter climbs.
Rumours are easy Doing what Pogi did takes a lot more than controversy.
😮😮😮
If you think Pogacar, and many others are not doping, you’re crazy
37 kph average in livogno for Pog, even in a facebook group post i randomly stumbled upon almost everyone is suspicious about pog bcoz he simply isnt getting tired after all this hell from the giro
Good Video 😊!! Why do you all consider Pogacar better than Vinegaard? Vinegaard dominated him two times in a row at the TdF! What is the hype regarding Pogacar in comparison to Vinegaard - it is strange?!
Pogacar is a better overall racer than Jonas. Pogi can win classic races, grand tour races, can win races on the gravel, can win TT’s. Jonas doesn’t have the ability to win different kind of races like Pogi does
@@quinthomas5805 First, Vinegaard also won races besides the TdF. And besides that, the grand tours are still much more important. Should we now also count in, who is the better runner of the two? Come on, you just search for plus points in favor of Pogacar.
Not to forget that Vinegaard destroyed Pogacar last year not only in the mountains, but also in the time trial and even in the flat parts of that trial he was faster.
On another stage where the two raced very technical downhill against each other, Vinegaard was also in the advantage. He has no weaknesses.
@@NyonidePogacar was out injured in run up to TdF last year. Also Visma were a better team overall..
Are you serious or trolling? Pogacar is the best rider by a mile (and every rider in Peleton will tell you that - even Visma guys). Pog can win every classic and monument + GT, while Jonas have never won one day race at 1.UWT level in his life (Pogacar in one day races at 1.UWT has 11 victories while Jonas best result was 14 in Lombardia). But Visma and Jonas are smart, they know where they strength is and that's TDF. Yes, Jonas can win 1 week races also but he's built for TDF and he's the only guy (with the help of Visma) who can take it from Pogacar. Visma is probably the best team science-wise and they calculated how to beat Pogacar. Last year they knew that Pogacar don't have the base for TDF (because he was 6 weeks without bike after the crash at LBL) and they knew if they ride every stage 110% he will survive till 1st rest day, he survived till 2nd but then you he will have massive drop in form and that happend (that's why they Visma rode last TDF like crazy from the stage one). In 2022 UAE team was not so good and Visma attacked him from every angle (Roglic, Jonas, WVA..) and they managed to crack him. Don't get me wrong, I think Jonas is the best GT rider today (especially if there's mountain climbs) but the best rider overall - not a chance!
@@nazgulzg I agree in many aspects, but not all. I think the real difference in the last two years was Jonas and not just Visma. As Poga and Jonas in the most important cases had the exact some races (the same amount in the alone in the air, the same amount of accelerations, they were together wheel on wheel) but in the end Jonas was mostly much stronger in the 1 vs 1, man against man. The same in the time trials.
Of course Poga had much more victories in general. Jonas is just really there at the top since 2 years. I think if he would focus on that, he could also be extremely strong in one day races (analog to time trials).
Not to forget how fast Jonas was down the hill. He even outperformed Poga in this respect last year at the TdF and Poga is already excellent in this regard.
I hope they aren't on the sauce.
But being objective, it's hard to believe when Tadej is riding zone 2 and zone 3 up hors catégorie climbs, whizzing past all other top elite climbers while "high fiving" kids and passing out his bottles as souvenirs. These metrics just don't make physiological sense.
And because Tadej is such a likeable guy, as these hosts convey, we all "hope" it is all clean and above board.
I think the reality may not be so romantic. History also shows us that the latest cocktails are usually way ahead of the testing protocols and science. Time will tell.
We should know all his numbers. FTP, weight, haematology, lung capacity, v02. Why is this all hidden???? Training at altitude is actually a chance to openly microscope regardless of whether they actually gain an altitude acclimatisation, they just return to race with better blood, and the bio passport is useless if they have been doped since a junior.
I have watched the sport since the 1980's when we know results where supplemented. I just think marginal gains doesn't allow these races and times to get faster and faster smashing times and records of riders we know doped? Cycling 140km-200km per day for 3 weeks at peak performance, it is difficult to see why fatigue, lack of recovery wouldn't be a big factor on at least one day??!! I think the premise no positive drug test so no drugs is not much of a standard after all Armstrong didn't fail drug tests!
Actually, it turns out in hindsight that we know that he did fail tests. The UCI covered it up though, didn't want to kill the golden goose.
7:15 : There’s an individual I will NOT ride with because of gel disposal methods. “Doesn’t want to get his jersey dirty”.
2:00: I'm surprised that someone familiar with cycling would be "devastated" to learn down the road that Pogacar is doping. Of course he is! It's a no-brainer, which is why the theatrics ("I would be devastated") is hard to understand. Absolutely everyone who wins a grand tour is on the gear. History has told us so. There's no reason to think anything has changed.
I remember when Matt went over the handlebars too.
do you know “blood worms “ and what if they don’t even know they are doping?
Dunbar’s number is 150
Legend
Come on!! They are all doped.
Sydney 2000 (Oakley Safehouse) I'd just finished a fly on the wall docco on the 1st Olympic triathlon. David Miller walks in and as pure as punch the subject turns to doping, he tells me (or Chris Boardman and me) that doping should be stamped out and anyone doing it should be run out of the sport.
2001 he's found in Biarritz with a lab full of gear by the French police
The point is, is there a point?
Anyone who can lie so brazenly (and he is just one example) and be straight faced about it tells you anyone is capable of doping.
UAE lab experiment, created by Mr Gianetti, Snr Podgcar is clean....
I certainly would like to believe it...however at one time I also believed in Santa.
These guys are quicker than the lance Armstrong days!! No nutrition, tech advances would out perform EPO.. Come on people wake up...
You’re an expert? You know the weight of Armstrong? Have you tried a bike of 20y ago vs latest? You know the difference in energy management science now vs 20y ago?
First, love your podcasts. That said your headline was disappointing click bait. You're better than that.
Appreciate the feedback. Can you help me understand what you found click bait about it? The title matches up pretty well with the content of the podcast.
@@TheRoadmanPodcast The title rubbed me the wrong way because it infers that Pogacar isn't on the up and up . Given that your perspective is that he is clean, why not lead with that?
for me the problem with Pog is the people he's surrounded by, multiple members of the leadership team in UAE, including riders have either been convicted of doping offences or have had their names associated with either highly publicised doping rings or cases...
Im not sure if any team in the sport would completely shield him from speculation, but UAE is amongst the worst choices given the history of UAE Sports and doping. UAE have a poor history of doping problems in other sports aswell (horse racing, athletics, shooting, weight lifting etc) which could hint at an 'at all costs' mentality. The UAE Gov seem to be making good headway to tackling doping in sports by introducing new laws and large fines but the doubts are difficult to shake after the damage has been done historically, and cycling is possibly the worst sport for UAE to go into given our sports own doping history.
Now when you factor in all of these elements and see his performances things start to become very troubling for us older fans who have been watching since the 80s... I hope he is clean, but its almost impossible to not have some doubts.
lol just enjoy it. You sound like a very paranoid individual
@@quinthomas5805 Paranoid? lol indeed.
no....paranoia is when you make things up in your own head...this is all information thats freely available for anyone who bothers to find it.
I'm guessing you're a massive Pog fanboy...doesn't like anything bad being said about his favourite rider, even though its information thats freely available about his teams previous misdemeanours... oh dear!
And Visma is better haha? Ex Rabobank, Visma is surely doing something not used by others, the instant results the riders get, when they come to Visma are crazy:)
Is at least 1 pro cyclist in the Grand Tours doping? If so, Pogi could be very well also doping. Why the tests don't catch them as often? Are they the best at hiding it or someone is looking the other way?
Tops
So if everyone is Doping ! The natural more given rider will winn !!! 😅
Don't ask questions that you really don't want the answers to or are not prepared to hear the truth. Just enjoy the show.
The Pog Machine needs a full in depth analysis… the UCI is incompetent In giving us this. We are all dreaming to think, suddenly there is no cheats. The very dna of completing is riddled with examples of individuals trying to gain an advantage! From twin riders, cables attached to trains, or riders riding trains… do you honestly think we’ve just jumped the fence in this human condition?
You have to come to Slovenia and you can see what is behind the all sports succeses of this nation :) Also cycling :) Not doping.
I've been cycling for some 25yrs+, and have advanced degrees in both Physical Therapy and Exercise Physiology, and any person who thinks that there isn't rampant doping in Professional and Cat.1/2 are either naive or lacking significant gray matter. A person, not doping, couldn't finish TDF or be within 15-20% of top 10 average finish time. Wake up and great real.
Look wise she above your league, congrats bro ;)
pogi is riding all time low watts bro, much slower than 2012-2019/20 era. the watts are lower than the u23 juniors 😭😭😭😭
Everyone accusing Lance before he got his ban was right. Innocent until proven guilty is only for the courts, not us.
Should be for the fans too. What a stupid statement to make. You fool
TP- Pan y aqua? 😂
As is always the case it’s a combination of the latest greatest science/technology in PED’s and of course the athlete him/herself. Like it’s a contest of who responds to the PED’s the best…no?
Mohoric said a few weeks ago, that there is so much data being taken from cyclists these days, and with the computing power behind that data, that there's pretty much no way for anyone to dope without it being noticed.
Remember that year in Le tour, when Vinokurov won the stage. One cyclist comented...we all know how much each rider can go. Lets wait for result. Next Day l think, Vinokurov was disqualified for some kind of dope
I think you have spent too much time listening to Lemond, that is one man that can't let history go so now all he thinks about is everyone is either doping or riding motorbikes. Just enjoy cycling for what it is and continue interviewing riders etc rather that getting wound up by who could be doping or not. Your podcasts are sooo much better when they are interviews only.....
Who is considered the all time greatest in cycling? Merckx. Guess what happened to him? He was busted. Let's not be naive. Let experience be your guide. I love the sport regardless. Motor doping is where I draw the line.
The host of this podcast is so naive.
Listen, everybody at the top of every sport is doping and is protected by many entities. How do you think Lance Amstrong dominated for many years without getting caught.
We all want to believe in a hero like in movies, but just like in those movies, it's too good to be true.
WAKE UP!!
350w Bosch doped
Have a look at the history of his results since he started age 9. Texan bully is like dog's poo, scraped off and forgotten. There is nothing, absolutely nothing these two have in common
Motors.
Somethings going on, we just don't know what.
“Unless somone has a positive test they are not doping, it’s black and white”
Doo some research on the number of guys who are convicted and admitted drug cheats without a positive test.
Lance is number one on the list.
It’s attitudes like this that keeps these guys in the dark.
I’m not saying that means they are doping but it doesn’t mean they are not.
Jonas and Poggy do 7 watts per kilo for up to 15 mins not 5. The “facts” you present to make your argument are not close to accurate.
We are seeing 2 guys in particular who are putting in performances that have only been eclipsed by former dopers.
Once again you are correct that in itself this is not enough to prove doping. But it is most certainly the level that raises suspicion.
The info you guys presented on this was pretty far off the mark and extremely dismissive based on the pretty large assumption errors you made.
I get it’s not intentional but you are just wrong.
These kind of performances consistently. I don't care as long as they dope safely. As I don't think it's safe to constantly do these performances clean.. the omerta is strong. Maybe the governing body's realize it got to go on to make the sport interesting and progressive.
Top level cycle racing has always been dirty since the early days, I just think they are getting smarter!
He has a Festina watch
Garmin watch
i see you compared Pog to Eddy M. Merckx doped......that is not even hidden. While Poga has not failed a drug test, and I hope is just a genetic freak, his numbers are at or above all of the previously doped riders. And he can maintain it......that is even more suspect. And previous record holders were doped to the MAX. He also does train at the notorious altitude camp (hotel); which is also suspicious when you consider the ownership. Armstrong was considered a clean rider, as was Ulllrich, until years after both retired. So testing clearly is not a reliable filter for whom is clean.
Love cycling, and love the show, but if it walks and talks and looks like a duck......well.....its probably a duck.
The first cheating in cycling I’ve ever heard of was riders hoping on trains. As long as there is money or pride involved, there will be cheating.
I don’t think Pogacar and others are clean . I believe they have been using new products that have not been tested for yet . I’ve heard all this before with Armstrong et all. UAE team boss is Gianetti. Cycling drug Lord. Also Arabs don’t like to lose. It will come out one day
They don't even need new stuff. Plenty of old stuff is great and easy to skirt tests with
1. Very racist comment
2. What is clean? If it's new and not banned by the UCI, then is taking a supplement doping? Where do you draw the line between doping and supplementation if it's not already banned?
@DavidFritzIII don't know too much about this do you? The rules close lots of loopholes and take intent into consideration. A new PED that nobody else has access to is still a PED and deemed to be doping.
*What's racist here?😂
@@DavidFritzIII Where do you see racism in that comment ? Karen 😅😂 ,
@@DavidFritzIIInot rascist at all. Its an issue. A state nation with huge amounts of money and influence backing cycling team. The team management of uae have a dubious past as well as a famous doctor in the team . The drug testing program has more holes than Swiss cheese
If they were all clean, Pogacar would still come out on top - Just like Armstrong. You've got to be incredibly naive to think that these riders are clean, these pro teams run through more dope than the cartels.
That’s hard to say, a rider back in the Armstrong era was asked the same, that if Lance could have won seven tour anyways if everyone was clean.
But the rider feels everyone’s physiological reaction to drugs is different, he thinks maybe EPO worked better on Armstrong than others, so he isn’t sure if Lance would have won seven tour if everyone was clean.
The rider isn’t completely wrong, if we give a bottle of whiskey to 200 people and tell them to down it in 10 minutes, I am sure all of them will react to the alcohol differently. Some will get drunk faster, or sober up faster, some might throw up, some might be completely fine and etc. So whatever those riders are taking, maybe Pogacar was able to maximize it compare to others.
Why wouldn't Pog not dope if he can't get caught? 🤔
He's great PR for a dodgy country
i dont know what was worse... Anthony's denial of anything going on because no-one is getting caught (and then saying testing is better than ever)!, or Sarah's "he can't possibly be doping he's too nice!" as if all Dopers look like pirates and behave like dicks. Nice people dope. Bad people dope. Not many people get caught. Unfortunately. How can he doping? It's so entertaining... its completely missing the point... the style of riding is certainly more repeatable every day if you're doping. Blood doping might have the passport and the tests as countermeasures.. what the modern peloton are supplementing with might not even be on banned list (Tram) or are untraceable/no test exists to find out. Just learn to enjoy the spectacle.
did I say that? 🙈ooops. I do love Pogi but of course just because someone is nice doesn't mean they do bad things. I'm with you lets enjoy the spectacle. They're still absolute machines 😃
If pogi is doping then he needs to get more of that stuff because last year's doses were lacking
I disagree with the hosts in this episode. Cycling has such a bad reputation whether it’s drugs or motors that there is nearly a reverse burden of proof on the sport itself. I think it’s perfectly fair to question if the sport is currently clean.
Unless they fail a drug test they are not doping? Given the history of cycling this is one the most ridiculous things you can possibly say. By that reasoning Bjarne Riis never doped.
Usually a good podcast, but have to challenge "unless somebody fails a drug test they're not doping". That's so strongly not the case and surely you know it? For an anti-doping rule violation (ADRV) the presence of a banned substance is one of ELEVEN possible ways, these include possession, whereabout failures and even prohibited association (receiving coaching and advice from people with ADRVs themselves.
There is definitely doping. Its also definitely harder with the biological passport but the need to win is still the same. Whether a rider can gain a biological, aero or mechanical advantage, they will. Its human nature and thus there will be those who will go against the rules, test against the strength of those tests and move the line in the sand to match what they have got away with. The line will continue to be crossed until a physical countermeasure stops it. Ask yourselves how many bikes were tested for motors in last year's TdF TTs. I also think the notion that you have to prove doping before you can have reasonable suspicion is putting the cart before the horse. For example, the biological passport is not proof of doping, but an adverse finding would definitely increase suspicion. As would a seemingly superhuman performance.
No way this era is clean lmao
I'm thinking it may be a mechanical advantage that enables him to quickly separate from everyone else. Look at his attack on La Redoute in L-B-L. There's a closeup of his hands on the hoods as he accelerates, but one of his thumbs is on top of the shifter in an unnatural position and he's pressing it down repeatedly. Once he gains his big separation he cannot be seen doing it again. He also did the same thing in the Giro last month. I'd love to think I'm imagining it, but....
japanese keirin racing they are in camps all have the same bike more or less and no contact with outside world this is how they should approach any pro racing
Just why would anyone tell you Pogacar is doping. You are a podcaster.
You should of skipped the first question. A lazy answer.
Cycling without doping would be just another boring sport, sorta like golf.
I suspect you could be surprised of doping in golf (and other sports): much more money involved! Professional snooker players have been banned for doping….
all u wanna be expert are just that wanna be !
first of all u don't know talent if it hit you on the head..there's nothing suspicious about Pogacar he's just a cut above rest....no amount of juice or otherwise csn create a smooth yet powerful pedal stroke ..its pure talent dude..unfortunately you guys want nothing short of attention and u are drawn to gratuities by slamming the old dope thing on this amazing cyclist..listen you all wanna be...Armstrong was obviously doped..you can tell coz he not performing as a natural athlete would ...Pogacar talent and an amazing team backing him up are what created such a dynamic and winning cyclist
again too often amateur who never got anywhere are ptoned to wanna be expert for the lack of success they all suffered
as the old saying goes
THOSE WHO KNOW DO NOT SPEAK. WHILE THOSE EHI DO OFTEN DONT...
If you think they aren't riding clean why even watch them
What a bird
i know someone doing a better job of ruining the environment they're a petra checmical company called ineos
4:00: I watch this podcast in increments, hence the double post. I'm going to take issue with the "intellectual laziness" accusation leveled at those who question what is going on. Ignoring the history of the sport is intellectually lazy. Ignoring the fact records set by doped riders are being broken by the likes of Tadej is intellectually lazy. I don't know what your end goal is here, but being intellectually astute doesn't seem to be one of them.
What record did Tadej break that was held by dopers? He's a mile off any of Marco's times in the Giro.
@@TheRoadmanPodcast I wasn't referring to Tadej per se, but you bring up a good point. I do not know what record Tadej has broken, so touche. I'm referring to the overall picture in which records have been broken, post doping 2006. Don't make me look it up! Because I will! I swear! (I'm goofing)
Just a note to add that you chastised yourself for not pushing back at LeMond's insinuation that Froome moto-doped. How could you push back unless you asked for sources? You didn't ask for sources. Why? I appreciate your intelligence. I also like listening to your interviews. You clearly love the sport of cycling, and you have a knack for conducting interesting interviews. Maybe it's just me, but something about these interviews doesn't ring true. I know I wouldn't want to turn riders off if I was asking certain questions.
No. Absolutely not.
whose his dr and ds..doesnt he live in colonevs chambers
walks like a duck ...
Pogacar one day cleaned his nose with TT Olympic Champion; next day outrace best climbers in the world without even sweat. Frustrating, is boring to watch these races.
Autophagy lol
Of course one can have suspicions.
It’s intellectual laziness not to understand that concept, given the past
You miss the point, why? Gianetti and other team uae team manager for uae both have long history of doping. Gianetti was the manager of dopers basso and pantani. Same w the other uae manager, manager of doped riders, and doped himself as a rider too
We just don’t know, either way. A claim that o is doping is unsubstantiated and wrong, a claim that he is clean is unknown.
We don’t know. Live w the uncertainty, that’s the way things are
All elite athletes dope , money talks
Armstrong never failed a drug either
Father Christmas does not exist people
You can't trust any top level rider with regards to taking PEDs.
It’s really simple if Pogi is doping it means they all are, It’s like the LA era they all are or they aren’t. I do think the UCI realized that the last doping scandal almost ended professional cycling, they don’t want that again 🤨
Given that most great cyclists of the past have been doped, the pertinent question is whether the doping means someone else wins. It seems obvious that Pogacar would also win a lot if no-one was doping, but are there really any poor Chris Boardman types out there who are being robbed because of doping? Maybe not, but the complexity is that not all doping is equal. Haemoglobin that transports 40 times more oxygen than human haemoglobin surely blows EPO out of the water performance wise.
Still love watching the racing irrespective, the 'tells' that someone is going to crack on the third climb of the day, the agony of watching the bunch sprint swallow up the lone breakaway meters before the line remain the same as ever.
The fact that he was a phenom right from the beginning when he was a young kid, tells me that he is just a very incredible talent.
Lance was extraordinary as a kid too. He was winning pro level triathlons as a very young teen. Just sayin
@@nimrodrdc Yes he was, though not to the same degree as Pogi, and he was not the right build for ever winning the TDF. And he couldn't do it all like Pogi can.
You don’t pronounce pogacar correctly. Why not learn rhe rt way?
Dude. If Jonas was there he’d be minutes ahead of Pogacar and people would say nothing about it.
He has ridden at this level for many years. He is not faster than any other year.
💉💊💉💊
You two are naive beyond belief. What did Greg say? Power curve to rpm on the climb. Empirical science is there to prove doping evidentially. History is there to prove the probability. Just ask your namesake David Walsh and read L A Confidential. Pogacar is in my view a doper. I know the history of cycling well and it is synonymous with doping from strychnine to steroids to EPO and beyond.