LITHIUM VS AGM BATTERY for Overlanding. Should I spend the money?
Vložit
- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- AGM vs Lithium. Get past the sales talk of lithium batteries and understand the facts.
WE ARE INDEPENDENT FROM SPONSORS. SUPPORT US:
/ andrew_stpierre_white .
FOLLOW ON INSTAGRAM: / 4xoverland_com
HUGE BACKLIST: 4xoverland.com/
BESPOKE 4WD CUSTOMS: www.autographoverland.com/
PODCASTS: bit.ly/4XOPODCASTS
ANDREW’S 4X4 BOOK: bit.ly/Four_Wheel_Drive
ANDREW’S AWARD-WINNING MEMOIR: bit.ly/Torn_Trousers
ANDREW’S FILMMAKING VIDEO COURSES: beafilmmaker.com
FACEBOOK: / 4xoverland
TWITTER: / 4xoverland
4xOverland is the world's largest global 4WD adventure motoring channel. Established in 1996, it is hosted by well known 4x4 writer, explorer and filmmaker, Andrew St Pierre White. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Very well done. I had my lithium’s shut down on me last year and wouldn’t take charge. Did the same thing as described with another battery and woke up the charger.
Great questions and a great report. Keep up the good work
Amazing video Andrew! Easy to understand and great information for all of us. I've been dying to get hold of a Lithium Battery in Malaysia but can't find one. Keep up the great work you are doing for the 4x4/overlanding community!!
082220/1628pst. That was the most intelligent discussion, educational even. The presentation was not scripted, the two people exchanged views and comments that came out quite naturally, which is very commendable. The gentleman in yellow Jacket explained well to the other gentleman, who was quite inquisitive to understand the intricacies of flooded Pb cell batteries and the LiFePo4 batteries, or the comparison between the two. I have yet to come across such intelligent program in YT in my life. No comments on “ others!” You know what I mean !
Thank you, both of you. My respects and 73s...
This was a really helpful video. especially the last part about when you run a AGM or SLA off an inverter, compared to a Lithium battery.
Very unclear definition as there are several DIFFERENT Lithium battery technologies. Main known ones are LiPo and LiFePo. The former is used in phones, Electric cars etc as it has higher energy density. But also the known ,explosive fire, variety. It use allows smallest size for given energy capacity. The storage battery presented is LiFePo variety, where the far more stable, less fire prone technology is better, at small loss of energy capacity for given volume is of no concern. But for clarity this presentation should not refer to just 'Lithium' battery but state the technology specifics. Even the optimal charging is affected by Lithium technolgy used.
Good informative video on lithium battery purchase breakdown. Thank you both for discussing this topic for us uninitiated campers !
Great video Andrew. Heiner (sorry if I misspelt his name) is fantastic at giving clear explanations of the technology and the function of the batteries. You both did a great job. Really enjoyed it and feel much more confident about the value and limitations of lithium batteries. Thanks lads.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the prismatic being better. Especially in an off road scenario. Cylindrical cells are wound tightly and encased in a metal casing, This minimizes electrode material from breaking up from mechanical vibrations, thermal cycling from charging and mechanical expansion. The complete opposite to prismatic construction ! Remember those Optima glass matt super tough off road starter batteries from the 90s? No coincidence each cell was constructed in a cylindrical manner.
Extremely informative, thank you!
Awesome. I learned a lot.
I would live to see some info on putting Lithium batteries in a solar setup.
Great video Andrew and Heiner, thank you.👍
Fantastic video. Answered a lot of questions. Very well presented. Great stuff!!
Lovely, very good help. And learned a whole lot. Thank you. And more power.
Great video, Andrew. I have just got into lithium power, all the factors of this new technology add up and significantly outweigh the larger initial outlay in dollar terms. I won't even mention the weight savings
As someone that's trying to get a rig put together, and looking at the differences between these two batteries I really appreciate all this information, especially about how bad of an idea it is to put a lithium battery under the hood. Tons of great information here, thank you! I'll have to check out more of your video's. :D
Really nice video Andrew. Heiner seems to really know his stuff.
Very entertaining and informative; thanks for making our lockdown a bit easier sir.
Great video and really helpful. The comment about Prismatic cells confused me as it conflicted with some other research I have done. What I have identified is that some manufacturers provide protection both in terms of physical (explosion proof jacket) and electrical (internal fuses) at a cell level. Prismatic cells are bigger and therefore both more dangerous in the case of explosion and cylinder cells. Cylindrical cells because there are more of them, have more redundancy at a cell level so a problem with a single is less likely to be as serious. So it may be more true to say that the quality of the cells used is more important, and a reflection of cost, than whether they are prismatic or cylinder.
Great info Andrew! Great idea to go to the shop and compare....
O man I have been watching so many videos on lithium batteries but this has put it in a way I could understand. Thanks so much. Brilliant.
Thanks Andrew, stay safe and healthy!
We just upgraded from AGM's to Lithiums by building our own battery bank on our sailboat (we liveaboard) using 180 amp hour, 3.6-volt CALB cells, and a DALY BMS, wiring the cells in a 4s2p orientation. So stoked on the upgrade! We charge our lithiums in 2 different ways. We send the power from our 120 amp Balmar alternator on our engine to our 100 amp-hour sealed lead-acid starter battery. From there a Renogy 60 amp DC-DC charger takes the load from the alternator and puts it in a lithium profile and in turn charges the lithium batteries. It was a fun build!
Really good information Andrew. Thank you to you both
Good info! Thanks for the video, George.
FYI: Pb Crystal batterie are still available in OZ...
That was great never could get my head around all that in the past but know light bulb has gone on. Thank you 👍👍
Love your work Andrew! Keep it up! I had so many questions about Lithium batteries and this is very insightful and answer almost all my questions, except 1. Almost all battery chargers and gauges measure the voltage of the battery to determine its state of charge. But since the Lithium battery has a virtually constant voltage (until shutoff), how do you measure/determine its state of charge?
thank you for other great detail video on new type battley system as look put together 24v down 12v system for over land tour build in my truck
I’ve a lithium and matched with a redarc BCDC the advantages are amazing . Just the weight and capacity are enough on why I really like my set up. Steve 🇦🇺
You asked all the right questions, and Heiner answered very well. The first thing he answered well, was that the Lithium battery case is just a "housing" of the bits inside, so that case and how it looks is the thing that actually confuses everything...because if the look the same, then it should be the same, and that is where the issue starts. Lithiums are fantastic BUT you have to match and design it to work how you want, and unless you are technical at heart, you will struggle. You just started to touch on connecting multiple batteries at the end of the clip, and that is really when it gets complicated...if you need 24V or >200AH...then you really need to match and understand....whereas AGM's you can really still connect them in parallel and/or serial as you see fit, and when you need to...LifePo4 need planning. Great Video.
Prismatic.... New word of the day.
there are three standard formats for Li-ion batteries: cylindrical, prismatic and pouch.
Prismatic. Sounds like religious nomenclature when spoken softly.
That was brilliant mate and easily understood. Thanks👍
Awesome. Answered many of my questions.
So informative, thanks for doing this for us.
Excellent video! Thanks for this one.
Good simple explanations, thank you.
Great info! Love the free flowing nature of the video.
I learned a lot from this. Thank you. I could put a lithium starter under my seat in my Defender but then I heard 1. The price and 2. The trickle charge issue. So I'll stick with AGM for my starter battery.
I would not see the value in going lithium for a starter battery. Lead acid performs very well in this usage.
Super great information given here. Thank you Andrew.
Thank you very much Andrew I learned alot from that video.
Superb! Thank you for sharing this valuable information.
nice questions and explanation by the technician. just the one i have been looking for
brilliant educational content. keep em coming
Thank you both for the information. I am getting a much better understanding of lithium technology.
thank you for clearing up alot of questions about lithium batteries great clip
Very informative, thanks Andrew
Great discussion Andrew, proper honest vid i feel
Really great….to the point, information ! Thanks for sharing!
Brilliant, really enjoyed this video.
you gonna love the lithium, enjoy. Surprised that your redarc jump started the management system. I have to jump start the management system on my batteries.
I wonder if its because I have 2 75 amp batteries and you only had one for the test. Will be interesting to see once you have fitted both??? Maybe a follow up on this episode? or maybe its the relion management system vs the Amtron?
As you saw on mine I have linked my started motor to the lithium batteries using a kill switch, so its hassle free to jump start both ways if needed.
I just bought an Ultra lead carbon battery, which so far seems amazing in terms of charging speed from Solar and can go to deeper discharge than AGM. (same price as AGM) Biggest issue for me with battery systems is the ridiculous prices for the DC to DC chargers like red arc.
Mark Jennings
You are correct in the price for the Battery management systems as lithium set up is expensive (chargers or bms), i have a back up power system in the house and was advised not to go lithium because of the risk of thermal runaway inside a house. AGM's have there down side but until lithium batteries is improved a bit more i will stick with the old tried and tested AGM batteries.
I really like this video as with most of them. I would like to point out something in regards to the dc to dc charger vs. charging from the alternator. If you have a Smart alternator which many new or late model vehicles have you must use a dc to dc charger with any battery, Gel, Lead acid, Lithium etc... in order to achieve a full charge.
Very informative, Thank you.
Great video. Was tempted to replace my AGM battery with Lithium but now I need to ensure my inverter and my charge controller can stop charging once the battery is full, meaning i will need to further invest in a shunt.
most smart charge controllers know when to shut off and that is why you use a proper charge controller rather than a dumb isolator switch.
Interesting to see that AGMs (and FLAs) still "win" for certain applications such as under the hood of a car. Also, the guy wrongly said that a high current draw from an AGM battery lessens the capacity. That is not true. It doesn't significantly lessen the capacity of the battery, it just lessens the effective capacity of the battery at that higher amperage draw. For example, if a 100Ah rated AGM battery has 50Ah of usable energy (without damage to the battery) rated at the 20 hour drain rate, that means you can draw 2.5A for 20 hours to get 50Ah out of the battery (assuming a healthy fully charged battery). However if you instead put a 25A load on that same fully charged battery, then you wont get 2 hours @ 25A. You might only get 1.5 hours, but that doesn't mean the battery dropped to only 37.5 Ah usable energy. You can still extract the "missing" 12.5 Ah, just at a slower rate (such as the 2.5A rate). I suggest that draining the batteries either way (either 2.5A for 20 hours) or 25A for 1.5 hours, then 2.5A for 5 hours (both are 50Ah of drain), will leave the battery is a similar state of charge (around 50%). If you don't believe me, try it. I usually do capacity tests on batteries that way. I use a high drain rate until my inverter beeps (usually at 10.5V under load), then I lighten the load and keep going.
Excellent discussion. However, here in the US we have a wide range of weather. During the year I can travel areas where the temperature can vary between -10 (-23C) to 115 (46C). At his time lithium batteries have complications when dealing with weather extremes that my 8D AGM’s don’t have. I’m excited about lithium battery potential, but right now they don’t answer all my needs like an AGM does.
so can it be a combo hybrid batery liuthiu + agm sort of ?
Exceptional explanation... thank you so very much!
Great subject, great video, thank you.
Great content... yet another ripper flick mate. Cheers
Nice work best real world review of the lithium vs AGM
Great video.. great information.
I just ordered 2 x Amptron 100ah batteries thanks to you! 👍👍
Rocking the William Painter Sunglasses... (I have seen their ad too many times).
Looks so funny when you pick it up like that. Very good video
I learned all of this when I quit smoking and started vaping , hahaha. Li-on batteries are great. Seems like there could be a little capacitor that would at least allow the charger to "see" the battery when its flat though. It will get normal really soon. AGM batteries are gonna be antiques .....maybe in the morning
What a great video 👍👍👍👍👍 Thank you so much for explaining all that about battery's. 👍👍👍👍👍
Fantastic informative video Andrew (as usual). Thanks so much for putting it together and thanks to Heiner too. Really informative and contains great, simple to digest detail. Lithium all the way. 👍
I learned a few things with this one, recently I also chose lithium. However, my biggest concern while choosing was not mentioned in this video: cold weather charging. Most lithium batteries bms will shut down bellow 0º to avoid damaging the cells. That's the only thing I would have liked to see mentioned in here. (Not a concern in Australia or South Africa I assume). Thanks for the great videos.
Mário Félix well it gets colder than 0 in Australia mate
Hi Andrew, I have a 120ah Lead crystal battery have done for a few years, after watching the video and the comment of possibly not being able to purchase Lead crystal batteries in Australia anymore, I had a look and there appears that you can still purchase them.
Trailer camper Australia was one of the sellers.
Great video.
Can you charge a lithium battery with a Epever mppt charge controller.
I believe it has a special setting??
Great video Andrew, one but I hoped you would have covered was suitability for use as a winch battery. Thanks, Dave
They're not suitable for a typical 4x4 winch setup. Continuous amp rating is too low and they should not be installed in the engine bay. You want conventional lead acid starting/cranking batteries for this job (1 as a minimum, 2 is better).
@@trimat2016 cheers, that is what I thought. I had been using AGM for my winch battery but that has now got to the end of its useful life so was looking at other options. Will probably just go get another one of the same.
@@davidwilkinson4382 So my understanding is no good under the bonnet, the winch would typically be connected to the start / crank batt under the bonnet and in my case the 2nd battery sits under the tray of my 79 series LC and services all the accessories (not winch) so in this application these seem ideal
Great video! 👌
Very clearly presented information and makes this new world of lithium 12V batteries much less daunting for amateurs like me! 😊
Keep up the good work.
Glad it was helpful!
@@4xoverland it certainly was! One question that I have after watching the video is if I am to upgrade my camper trailer system from AGM to lithium, would it be better to have 2 x 100-120ah batteries connected in parallel or one large capacity 200ah battery? i.e. Does having 2 x batteries provide a redundancy if one fails, or if one fails are you in trouble? Cheers
The best explanation ever, thankyou👍👍
So for engine compartment stored batteries. Extreme heat with lithiums is a concern in the desert temps of 100°f plus. Under hood temps can reach 200°f plus. The interior/cab alone here in south west Arizona can reach 122°f.
I had a lead crystal battery have a cell or 2 drop late last year and it was replaced under warranty. I note this only to note that they clearly could supply the replacement in Australia.
Excellent Andrew - Thanks
Great info explained clearly great job
Loved the video 👌
Something to remember here is the information from Suppliers IS NOT ALWAYS CORRECT! I work in a battery shop & there is a very well known brand of lithium Motorcycle battery sold all over the world that advertise they are Prismatic cells. Every single one I have cracked open have lithium polymer cells with no protective casing! I dont sell these by the way.
Nice pair of William painter sunglasses Andrew. I had the same pair many years ago
Great info
Will be definitely going lithium in the new zook
Weight is the biggest thing for me
if you want to start your car with it, there are AGM batteries on the market eg.: Enersys EP, XE; Odyssey extreme, Powersafe SBS, Interstate MTZ,... example: Enersys XE16 12V 16Ah Crankingamps: >600A
or Odyssey PC2250 12V 125Ah Crankingamps: 2250A
I am curious about how to set up and run duel batteries. It would be nice if you make a video about duel battery use also, that includes conventional and lithium.
I have one big question left after this brilliant and very educational video: how or more when you gonna charge these batteries, when they don't like to be charged all the time by just a little. I mean, practically, you charge them, start your trip, use them for let's say 1 day and they are down to 70%. Do you then just switch off the charger and wait until it's down to 10% and only then switch the charger back on? But then you plan to just stay in one place for another 2 days but then your battery is flat?! How this works in real life?
The most important question and answer (for me!) was the very last one; "why 2x 100ah batteries v. 1x 200ah battery." To add to the electrical engineering answer Heiner gave, unlike AGM/Flooded batteries, you can easily add more batteries to the system later. That means you can start with 1x 100ah battery + DC/DC charger+charger/inverter+MPPT solar controller for your system and then after your cardiologist bills are paid due to the sticker shock, you can buy another 100ah lithium and add it into the system ;-)
Companies in the USA are selling these now with 11 year warranties. But I live in a hot climate, so how long are these going to last in the Oz heat?
very good information
about lithium batteries for today
they are the best but very expensive
and the bms circuit prevent thermal runaway and causing the battery to explode from short circuit condition .
the only thing to worry about
lithium battery is physical puncture.
they say it lasts 2000 cycles
but in realty it reach alot lower than 2000 .
using a smart power charger that record the charging and discharging
curve (1st cycle recordings )using a constant load and this information can be compared to curves example after reaching 600 cycles
if the curves are 20% in difference expect the battery is fading away and can't last longer when it was brand new .
Thank you!
Hey Andrew love your videos , can you start adding links to products you mention in info, it would be really useful , cheers Leon ...
Great content as always
Thank you👍
Awesome information! 👍
The new technology is Lithium Titenate. They are fire proof and damage proof. They are 20,000 cycles ie life- time batteries . Also you can charge them in ten minutes. You can discharge them at massive amperages also. These will function from -59C to +65C- LTO - AWESOME!
Awesome video!
Very good to the point
I’ve just installed a 1500w inverter to make coffees on the road, I’ve got 1x 100amp agm and 1x 75amp agm with my car running and a 40amp dcdc charger charging the 2 batteries the voltage drops to 11.6v from 14.4v . I’ll be interested to see how many cycles I get .
LiFePO4 is a rollercoaster in my present build decision making. Yes there is deep discharge and high cycle life ability, very high (95%) Watt-hour efficiency and superb energy density per kg . However, very few products seem to have a convincing CCA rating for emergency engine starting, most prohibit in-series use to make 24V without more complex BMS, charging and general use below 0 Deg C seems restricted to 5% Amps of Ah size and/or need for heating mats. My latest discovery switching me off again is risk of alternator burnout due to very high current even when charging at low rpm when alternator cooling fan performance is low, demanding alternator temperature controlled charge regulation. I'm rapidly concluding some low capacity CCA rated AGMs and a small homemade Honda GX35 24V APU charger generator is the way ahead to back up plenty of PV and possibly a yacht type wind charger . LiFePO looks great for domestic offgrid however.
Awesome information. Thanks. I have a Ctek DCDC charging an AGM. Will the Ctek charge a lithium if I change over.
We just upgraded from AGM's to Lithiums by building our own battery bank on our sailboat (we liveaboard) using 180 amp hour, 3.6-volt CALB cells, and a DALY BMS, wiring the cells in a 4s2p orientation. So stoked on the upgrade! We charge our lithiums in 2 different ways. We send the power from our 120 amp Balmar alternator on our engine to our 100 amp-hour sealed lead-acid starter battery. From there a Renogy 60 amp DC-DC charger takes the load from the alternator and puts it in a lithium profile and in turn charges the lithium batteries. It was a fun build!
Am i understanding this correctly, apart from weight difference, I am guessing its ideal as a 2nd battery for fridges, access etc and being charged by a BCDC charger... has a super fast recharge time.... and the fact it lasts longer before going flat because it has more usable Amp power in store... is that right and do they come in 120amp?
Can you please do a video about the different between lithium and lead crystal battery please