Improved Battle Plans - Defeating Cersei and the Iron Fleet (How To Fix Season 8 Episode 4)
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2019
- I analyze the plans for the campaign to take the Iron Throne from Cersei and offer my own improved strategy based on a war of propaganda. In this video I use historical military strategy to offer proper commentary the plans to take out Cersei and the Iron Fleet in Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the Starks". I've also added my own take on how to fix the naval ambush at the end of the episode.
#GameOfThrones
#ImprovedBattlePlans
In this video I referenced a lot of history about naval combat from antiquity. If you are interested, here is a series I did on the Roman navy: czcams.com/video/jpGMSzgd8eg/video.html
I'm so sad we never got to see your brilliant version of events play out in the TV show. Just makes so much sense!
@@doughyjoey_8742 I am considering a long term plan of using the channel to make my own original content series. Not sure yet what the setting will be. Could be historical, some existing fantasy universe, or perhaps my own original world.
Anyone remember when Danny had jorah and grey worm sneak into meereen? If only team Danny had one spy who knew the secret passages of the red keep or a highly trained assassin at her disposal.
I'm with you on the assassin, but I'd be careful with the tunnels. Qyburn took over the little birds network, he might know those tunnels too. And he'd know they know them.
Sneaking into the tunnels is still possible, but with a facechanging assassin on your team, killing a Lanister soldier, stealing his face and armor and walking into the front door might be safer and easier. I nominate Ed Sheeran from last season as donor.
what did you expect from far left radical sjw liberal feminazi writers who have no idea about war at all...some beta says this is how it is but let this idiot write it...and thus you get writers who think people on boats can live forever and that flying two dragons into hundreds of ships with harpoons and spears that can hit them very easily with seasoned pirates that can aim those things with ease...ya okay...i just cant anymore with this show...it insults my intelligence to the max...these writers are either the dumbest people ever or they think we are idiots which were not...so they just ruined this show sorry...this last season was just god awful
1. Ask Bran to scout Kingslanding.
2. Pet Ghost.
3. Let Arya do the rest.
4. Everybody could enjoy their cup of starkbucs.
Bran scouting kingslanding is not gonna happen because if im not mistaken bran's scouting prowess is only limited by weirwood trees and there are non in kingslanding
Zhi xci Nope. Weirwood trees are used for greensight which allows Bran to see the past. Skinchanging or warging is a different ability and it allows him to possess animals and even humans. So yes, he could probably scout Kings Landing if he could possess a raven or two.
I honestly don't think Bran even cares about anybody else at this point; its all about his own survival. I wonder if its even Bran in there anymore.
Think about it, the Night King came south and immediately assaulted Winterfell, cut through their defenses and personally went up to kill Bran himself to make sure it was done properly. Why did he go about doing it this way? If its all just about killing mankind then why not just surround Winterfell and starve them out?
I think its because the three-eyed raven is the real threat to all life in westeros and the Night King was the only one to realize that, so he tried to kill him quickly. Now that the walkers are all gone, the three-eyed raven is free to manipulate mankind into destroying itself. Even Meera Reed said that Bran died in the cave. Seriously, Westeros is screwed.
alaskamark456 If that’s so, why would Bran even tell Jon that he’s actually the true heir to the throne? If he didn’t care, why even tell in the first place.
Also that last theory might be a little too far fetched since we only have 2 episodes left. Opening more plot points would be a disgrace to the already ruined season 8.
Ungoldt. Remember, Birdbrain can see the future. Maybe he told Jon knowing that this information would fester and cause a rift between Jon, Dany and their forces; further weakening mankind for whatever evil plan he has in store.
Exactly, the writing is atrocious at this point. I wouldn't put it past the writers to bring in a massive plot-line to the show this late. Maybe to be resolved in a spin-off down the line so they can milk people dry even more.
Saying that Danny forgot about the Iron Fleet is like saying that Hitler forgot about Normandy.
Just pure and utter ignorance on the writers part
He did actually. The German intelligence was first deceived and prepared for a landing near Calais and Hitler was not woken with most of his advisors fearing that he would lash out at them for waking him early. Hitler had taken direct authority over the movement of panzer divisions in France, not unlike a monarch as Guderian and Rommel found themselves at conflict over them.
In other words, yes it's realistic, it has happened, and it's supposed to show that Dany is quite the poor ruler.
A better version would still have been the one proposed by Invicta which accomplishes basically the same but not in such a bad manner.
@@1293ST
Incorrectly assuming a naval invasians landing spot and forgetting about Normandy all together are two very different things. Stop trying to flex on people with history everyone already knows about.
Royal Navy*
or Stalingrad
You literally rewrote the scene better than D&D. In 15 minutes.
Sachindra Bhattacharya I bet it took more than 15 minutes
@@Satanthony I bet it took less than 15 minutes. I could come up with a better idea in 5 minutes. ANY idea is better.
Fax!
Seriously. He had my attention from this story more than the episode did.
Agreed
That moment when one CZcamsr writes a battle script for a multimillion dollar t.v series better than the entire studio backing it’s production.
"D&D kinda forgot about Invicta"
It is known
* Dumb&Dumber
I still can't believe David saying Dany forgot about Euron !!!!
Forgot about the only enemy she has left lmaoOo
Why portray Dany as such a short span idiot ! How they not have a plan in case of an ambush , at least fly above clouds the entire time and send scouts and scout from above clouds herself before getting closer to sea or land . Rhaegal completely died for nothing GRRM said himself it's almost impossible to hit a dragon in flight and yet he hits the dragon from the first try!
@@ChefNourhan to add salt to the wound, Euron had already ambushed Dani´s forces when he attacked Yara (facepalm)
Your hypothetical scenario had me 10 times more excited than the actual episode without FX. Great job!
Same here
same
Same here lol
Same.
Arya Is pregnant and her kid will be a whitewalker
Daenerys: We must attack King's Landing now!
Everyone else: Why?
Daenerys: Because we only have two episodes left!
Makes sense
HBO: We'll give you enough funds for 10 episodes
D&D: Nah 6 is enough.
HBO: But it's literally 4 more episode of character development and action.
Exactly. This whole season seems rushed.
@@DjuraValtr D&D: Forget it, guys, we're doing Star Wars movies now!
Because she must be acknowledged and crowned before words about Jon being Aegon gets out. She's in full political panic mode.
Someone sharing ideas for fun on CZcams: "Daenerys underestimated the clever tactics of the Iron Fleet."
Writers paid thousands of dollars for an extremely popular TV show: "Daenerys kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet."
Millions of dollars*
I'm pretty sure 13 year olds with a copy of a Total War game are better tacticians than D&D. They screwed up so much in the last 2 episodes that it's almost impressive.
yeah they just want it epic but people who are interested in tactics and history are just cringing...
Because the movie characters are too dumb :'(
I feel it’s more that they’ve gotten lazy and think their audience is stupid. Which they’re not completely wrong with how many people thinking how “cool and awesome” Arya killing TNK was. You know, Jon Snow’s antagonist for all these years...
@@lassepetersen2141 It can be epic with tactics. Remember Rob when debating what to do when he had 2 Lanisters armies to worry about? If your into strategy these scenes are awesome because it gives you a slight taste of what would you do and you see how hard it is and it is satisfying when you see the tactics work effectively.
@@CahzinarX Yeah true
We don't know what GRRM will put to page eventually, but D&D had two years to think this through, and Invicta out-thought them in less than a week.
Keep in mind that the goal of D&D is not necessarily to show their characters as logical, or their world as following rules. Their goal is high drama and spectacle. The fact that someone on a dragon did not spot eleven warships which had direct line of sight on her when she was looking in their direction, and their candid response being.. she 'kind of forgot'.. says it all.
Judging by the attention to detail GRRM has put in his books so far, it will be a far more believable story.
@@battleangel4833 Yeah, but Invicta's scenario has more drama and spectacle in addition to not being fucking stupid.
Actually Invicta had two years to think it through but unlike D&D he didn't. All he's doing is modifying what D&D gave him after the fact.
@@fifteenbyfive So D&D completely lack the ability to look back at their own work, analyse it and see how they could improve it?
Turns out you didn’t really need tactics, plans, or even an army! Daenerys could’ve soloed it herself the entire time!!
Wearableputty
Haha yeh
One of her dragons and almost her whole fleet gets taken down by a few ships of the iron fleet
Then Daenerys just destroys the whole fleet like nothing
@@sonarbuge7958 Those Dragon patch notes were no joke...
@@carlosmaciel4629 drogon: +1 attack for each dead dragon card in your graveyard.
@coinny22 Didn't she already know that the ballistae were in production and could hurt her dragons since last season though? To my mind, this should make her more wary of engaging enemies that she hasn't properly scouted first.
A friendly spazmoid well tbh, nothing stopped her from just flying over the red keep out of range, and then divebombing Cersei
Robb Stark season 1: "we can't take kings landing without ships"
Season 8: "luckily kings landing moved to a desert"
Honestly? That little fanfiction at the end would have had the same shocking effect on the viewers but with much better strategy.
Syx the only showing effect episode 4 had on me was at how bad it was
A better effect storywise as well, because having to leave Rhaegal behind would be even more traumatizing for Daenerys than him just suddenly being shot. (missandei could have just been shot by archers or something)
I think most people were more confused than shocked when Rhaegal died. There was no build up and the death was ridiculously comical.
I think it even would have been much better!
If they actually used that sign, I might've felt something when Rhaegal died.
Next episode Benioff: "Euron just sorta forgot about Drogon and his fleet sunk"
Geert Matthys I think Euron is Doomed.
The scary thing is, that's probably what's gonna happen :/
thats what i wrote on the trailer of episode 5!
Or Arya gets a drop on him. Anything is possible now.
Euron will forget how to shoot with 100% accuracy, allowing Dany to sink his fleet.
HBO should hire you instead.
Rhaegal not being able to escape due to his injuries is just plain excellent writing, where consequences unfold. Something the show has lost, sadly
It would also fit in Sansa's warning that the troops (and the dragon) needed to recover.
@@Robbedem Wow so true, and then we'd ACTUALLY have a reason to believe Sansa is getting smarter.
I agree!🤦🏻♂️👏👏
The idea that they could even hit the dragon is laughable. Hitting a moving target thousands of feet away and hundreds of feet in the air should’ve been damn near impossible.
@@connorgolden4 you didn't take aimbot into account
..they show a clear understanding that the balance of power is dangerously even...
S08E05: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Fuck the season bad man
Losing ONLY HALF their forces in the battle against the Night King is way too generous... given how the defenders had to run and hide from the dead inside the castle !
Yeah and as far as the Dothraki go, not one was ever shown inside the castle during the fight
They fucked it all up, at best a few 100 men should be left.
They just really wanted to end this show real quick lmao
I would like to know where thoes 1000's of men hid. Because I didn't see a damn one of them.
Willy Ajax All they had to do was say something like half her army was still in transit to Winterfell when the dead attacked. One simple line could have fixed this glaring mistake.
D&D: Dany forgot about Euron and his fleet
Me: But the War Council literally mentions Euron bringing the Golden Company and Euron is on the strategy map.
Exactly this! How could they forget about such a large threat (THAT'S EVEN /SHOWN/ NEXT TO DRAGONSTONE). Do they all have amnesia or something?
just turn your brain off brah
What D&D meant to say was ‘We kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet. And everything else.’
Qyburn casted a spell because in reality he's Gandalf the black and the only way to defeat him is with Gandalf the White alongside the riders of Rohan
Well they also said that dothraki are gone.. (fan theory) what if after the ending credits od 6th ep, d&d comes out and states
" hey, we are really sorry about decreasing quality of the show. Thruth is we spent half of budget on 3th episode effects and the other half for weed and made 4,5 and probably 6th in one afternoone beeing badly stoned. And at the moment we really taught it's badass. Sorrey
I like the strategy of marching down the King's road united. I would also add, to allow Varys, master of whispers, to spread propaganda about Daenerys in King's Landing, to slowly win over the people. I would also stop and hold court at Harrenhal. I would call all the Lord's of the great houses to come and bend the knee. If Cersei wants to parlay, she sends Qyburn or whomever to Harrenhal.
It could also allows Varis to spreads rumours about John, thus opening the path to "mad queen" ending
Dany already have the "Master of Whisperers" yet Dumb and Dumber forgot how a fucking menace you can use with just words, ex. of words as weapons: season 1-4
the dragon's death in season 7 made me wanna cry
the dragon's death in season 8 made me wanna laugh
same, I was like WTF. Were those scorpion bolts laser guided and heat seeking?
Euron was known as dead eye Jim
@@Nathan-jh1ho lghsdpa= laser guided heat seaking dragon piercing arrows
Stannis Baratheon defeated the Iron Fleet in the battle of Fair Isle during Greyjoy’s Rebellion by essentially trapping the Ironborn between Fair Isle and the mainland. If anyone competent was in the writing room, they’d model any Targaryen victory on that. Especially since the straits between Dragonstone and the Crownlands makes it a suitable comparison.
Considering what they did to stannis.....
but didn't stannis defeat the Greyjoy fleet because his ships were bigger and smashed the greyjoy's ships?
@@idrinkyourmilkshake7715 they would have been slower but they managed to trap the iron born in between the redwyne fleet of the reach and stannis's ships.
Wouldn't John and/or Theon most likely either have been taught about the Greyjoy rebellion by Eddard Stark or just know about it from other sources? If so, then I completely agree with you.
Yes, but I agree w/ the video in that- there really was no need to engage the iron fleet. Leave them out at sea. Their biggest mistake was not sending out scouts....they literally have access to a kid that can warg into and control flocks of birds. The ULTIMATE scout ! Would have made sense to use Bran here ! I also agree that travel by sea was a stupid move....I like the idea of a long, slow march down the Kings road to win the hearts of the people. As soon as the dead were defeated- they should've sent people south to spread word of the great victory at Winterfell. They should've listened to Sansa and used that time to allow the army to get healthy and perhaps even pick up some more allies.
“Always forget about the iron fleet” - Sun Tzu
Oh man, made me crack up
Looool this is so perfect
D&D
"Dany forgot about the iron fleet but they didn't forget about her."
...
They literally had iron fleet chips on the planning table right beside Dragonstone at the start of the same episode..... and she and others in her company had brought up the Major threat of the iron fleet numerous times.. burned almost her entire fleet too...
All these types of videos I've seen, i want a remake with their writing.
Exactly! The plot holes in Season 8 are infuriating to anyone who actually pays attention!
D&D: Danny sort of forgot about the iron fleet.
Mauler, myself, and the rest of the universe: shut up you fucking ham sandwich.
Daenerys forgot about the fleet because she was blinded by arrogance.
@@abraham2172 They never stated that but keep on trying to defend crap. D&D only said she forgot that’s it, so anything else is your own false narrative.
If only they had a person who knew how to get into kings landing secretly (and he did like 4 times already) and could get a small group to kill the queen...
sigh.
by what the shitty writing has been going they will excuse it as
"Tyrion forgot about the passageways"
Faceless man: a man can do the job.
they had a dream team to kill cersie without any more deaths, send arya for the kill and davos to smuggle her into kings landing
And if only they had a super crack Faceless Assassin on call.
@@djoseph_sm2783 * 10 good men and they will impregnate the b*tch
@@GushChew don't even get that started....Dany and Arya never had even a single conversation in the entire show (facepalm)
Your story was awesome.
I'm gonna pretend that is what actually happened from now on
Imagine how disappoint people will be when they discover that all your cool "spoilers" don't actually appear in the show :D
yup. That was awesome!
Totally, the writer really taints the quality of game of thrones show
DUUUDE, your ending made me get goosepumps!.. what would have been the BEST part of this season so far!..
100% Agree! That would have been an awesome battle! Damn :D
Ikr! That was horrible to listen to (in a good way in context)
Man, he sets it up so well too. The descriptions of how the show totally ignores any real tactical or strategic planning, and how he uses the experience a real force should approach the situation, while still having, in essence the same outcome! Masterful!
Yeah, invictas ending was much better then what happened in the show. But to be fair, they might have wanted to go for some subtle symbolism there: The Kraken kills the Dragon by drowning it. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into bad writing lol.
Loved how he ended it! This season is so rushed with only 6 episodes. Who the fuck only does 6 episodes for a final season? This needs at least a minimum of 8. Everything is too crunched together and these tactical plans have been pure stupidity.
Gotta admit just thinking about that alternative ambush scenario now gives me chills, that would have been a much more powerful moment. If only the writers would have someone like you to consolidate lol, but no, they just keep to their sitcom level of writing
Plot twist. There cannot be a naval strategy anymore since Kings Landing is all of a sudden in the dessert not by the water lol.
2nd Plot twist. The ocean has returned!
It was also on the top of a mountain all along. Expectations subverted!
yeah like how did that happen ı tought that there were forests and farmland but it seems they just took the city and placed it at Dorne.
Qyburn rolled up his sleeves the night before and worked out a quick engineering project to relocate the entire capital.
2nd Plot twist. The ocean has returned!
_Expectations subverted_
1. Fly high with Dragon
2. Drop heavy object
3. Repeat
More or less what they did in Narnia - even a fist-sized rock thrown by Dany from 2km would be death from above, smashing through every roof or whatever
You forget that in D&D's universe, Cersei now has rapid-firing patriot missile scorpions that melt through dragon scales kilometres away like a hot knife through butter xD
@@couchpotatoe91 Cersei's S-400 anti aircraft defense system.
@@couchpotatoe91 lmao amazing technology
Or water the ironfleet with oil, then boom!
Don't forget to take into account Euron's teleporting stealth ships with romulan cloaking technology with heatseeking ballista bolts. Just sayin....
Probably also made out of Adamantium... cause you know Dragonscales are kinda tough to penetrate.
Those are actually scorpion bolts not ballista bolts
Wallace to be fair Euron has some kind of cloaking magic in the books
He also has a full Valyrian steel armor and the dragonbinder.
he also shoots lightning in his ass... like william wallace.
Send Arya, Ride to the Capital, Kill Cersei (not sorry), Ride the dragons, Crown Dany, fly back north, have a nice cold pint and wait for the whole thing to blow over.
Jon: How's that for fried Lannister gold?
Sam: Yeah boi!!!!!!
"clang swords together"
D&D: Sorry
Fans: It's alright. I'm sure it won't be that bad
D&D: No, No... we're Sorry Guys
Fans: OHH!! OH MY GOD THATS GROSS!!
Dany flies back from a burning King's Landing covered in ash.
Jon: "You've got Red Keep on you."
have a nice starbucks cup
Hey Shaun
the one thing that absolutely boggles my mind is why cersei didn't take dragonstone while it was undefended.
She couldn't see it from her balcony so she kinda forgot it existed.
Let's petition a Saudi prince to fund the remake of season 8
As a Saudi I second the motion lmao
I'll just wait for the books to come out...
seasons 7 and 8 are not canon anyway...
How bout start from 7?
@@lastmanstanding5423 Canon*
@@matthenry2564 thanks... fixed... :)
How the heck do they still have half their forces? It looked like they got decimated in episode 3.
Thats game of Thrones. I still don't get how the Unsulied got back from Casterly Rock after their ships were torched.
Commissar Kitty decimation is only 1/10th of their army gone.
Remaining half was chilling out in Starbucks nearby. They were prepared to take part in battle after, in the case that the first half was was completely wiped out...
Considering this show lost all concept of time: babies.
There is no way there was 50000 troops inside winterfell...
Question- how did the fleet of ships see 2 dragons in the sky and have Danny not notice the big fleet of ships until they were within firing range of both her and her fleet? I mean... she's kinda got optimal view there...
Blame the writers :p
Your alternative ending to Episode 4 was phenomenal and didn't do a single character (or the show) a disservice. Well done.
makes a point to watch out for enemy navy... has clear reconnaissance advantage.. STILL LOSES TO FRICKIN DOLLAR STORE JACK SPARROW
I really dont think that you can compare them, though. Jack Sparrow is written to be the funny, suave, slightly mad captain that seems like a lot of fun. Euron Greyjoy is a ruthless captain who will do anything and kill anyone to get what he wants.
I personally think that Euron is much more interesting than Jack Sparrow. From what I can remember, Jack saved a bunch of slaves and spent the rest of his time in Scooby-Doo scenarios. Sure he gathered the pirate fleet to fight Calypso. Hes really human. This is probably because of Disney, but his swordplay style is very theatrical and flashy.
Euron got the largest fleet built that Westeros has ever seen. He pushed his brother off of the bridge to his death so that Euron could claim the throne himself. His fighting style is very brutal and is very straightforward.
@@itzdylandude show Euron is a joke
@@CrunchyNorbert Compared to book he is.
In the show though he's just a pirate captain stereotype..
@@itzdylandude did you just write an essay?
More like Low Budget Captain Hook
House Invicta for the Iron Throne!
"Remember to always split your forces, before committing each to a frontal assault. Such is how one wins a land war in Asia... " -- Said no one ever
You may actually be the first person to say that.
Napoleon could do that.
@@quetiaogoreng4651 no, just plain no, the terrain in some asian countries would shake up the volleys and the forested areas would deny him any cavalry use especially in the southeast, in the steppes sure but then he would've been found by local scouts easily
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - Dread Pirate Roberts
You fool! You have commited one of the classic blunders, the most well known is "never underestimate the idiocy of the writers responsible for the latter GoT seasons", but only slightly less well known is this: "never underestimate Dannys blindness when it comes to spotting naval fleets!" hahahahahahahaha!
Tywin Lannister: (to Weiss and Benioff) This CZcamsr is a better strategist than you.
A wet paper bag would be a better strategist than those two idiots.
He shall be his cupbearer
"I thought you were good for more than just brutalizing HBO subscribers. Apparently I was wrong"
Your fan fiction is a hundred times better than what we got in the show xD
It's funny but also sad, it could have been so good.
Yeh, but when millions of dollars are at your fingers tips what are you going to do? Craft a detailed, lore inspired and passionate project, or shit something out and rake in that fuckinggg moneyyy. The suits in charge dont give a FUCK about fans all they care about is that sweet, sweet money and a return on their investment.
It's like all the showrunners had to do is hire two people that knew extensive military history.
1 for Dany.
1 for Cersi.
That would have made season 8 much better, more realistic, and back on top as the best show on TV.
yes. But apparrently they wanted to hit certain endspots for the finally and bend the characters to do stupid things so it can happen. The Show was too short We needed full 10 episodes for Season 7 and 8. Hell Splitt them in half show each year five eps and call it a day. But thats too slow.
GoT huge success was its immediate downfall. They dumbed it down, made it for Mainstream when in reality Mainstream Audience was already eating it up during Season 1 when it wasnt dumbed down. Just trust that when a show does great you dont need to make it simpler as it was.
The worst thing is. THis last season will see to it that the other ones will be tainted forever by this rushed ending.
At this point I feel cheated especially since they took 2 years to make this??? IT feels cobbled together in a haste and less than a year. Not over 2 years.
Also, HBO could not be cheap with the highest rated show in history and budget season 7 and 8 to actually have 10 episodes each so they have narrative time to maintain character development that doesn't seem sudden and bizarre, and allow various ends to be reached without having to resort to bait and switches and ludicrous deus ex machina moments of stupid reversals that seem more appropriate in a WWE match where some goon comes running in with a steel chair and hit the face character while someone distracts the ref to allow the heel character to pull off a bogus win.
Anyone else see an issue with HBO in the last 2 years? ATT buys them, suddenly they decide to drop the *still making over a billion dollars profit per year* HBO boxing program after 40 years, they start lowballing production budgets for GoT which leads to a choice of either more air time with much less CGI or keep the CGI but cut a few hours of screen time from each season. Then HBO's new boss announces that they want to create a bunch of cheap series that is more oriented for their streaming service to try to compete directly with netflix/hulu/crackle/sling/free dive/tubi.
I will imagine your scenario is what actually happened since the alternative is simply to horrifying. Much better cinematically and a satisfying character moment for Danny.
And just imagine Cersei parading the dragon´s head over Kingslanding walls... that would be a better trigger than the bells
Everyone: Bran, we need your abilities to defeat the enemy.
Bran: I must consult with the Elder Gods.
So they have Dorne, The Veil, The Iron Islands the North and Sansa can be used to attract surviving Tully Loyalists to revolt and kick out Lannister forces from Riverrun in the River Lands, and the Unsullied took Casterly Rock, thats
Plus you can use Gendry as the last Baratheon to take the Stormlands almost 6 out of the seven Kingdoms on your side....Danny could had already won the war just by using politics
Ricardo Guanipa yeah, and they could even convince the reach to side with them as the Lannisters attacked Highgarden and killed Olenna
I mean, even in the show she could probably win by waiting, with no additional work or allies. Cersei is paying off a pirate fleet and an elite mercenary army, how long does she expect her gold to last? They'll either leave or start looting once the supplies run out. I get that Dany is mostly moving fast for political reasons, but marching down King's Road would buy them some time and avoid splitting forces when the balance of power is clearly matched. And they seriously could have waited a week or a month, forcing injured and tired men into a forced march that'll end with a siege rather than a decisive battle is just dumb. There was nothing to gain from the mad dash to the capitol.
@@visakhps3736 And Olenna made sure the Reach knew that Cersei killed MArgery and Loras. and the other Tyrells @ Sept of Baelor.
tbh this is what i thought would happen. can't support a mercenary army forever and plus the inflated number of people in the capital would reduce food stores drastically. since they don't have highgarden under crown rule they have no food. the only logical would be to bring in food from across the narrow sea, but as they're doing tht just build up the iron islands fleet, solidify relations with dhorne send gendry to storms end to raise more men and make peace with the inhabitants of casterly rock and lanisport and make tht the new seat of targayrean so she can have a new supply of subjuects (also make peace with samwell and sending him tho the tarly seat)
THEY COULD BESEIGE KINGS LANDING FROM HUNDREDS OF MILES AWAY. it would force cersei to seek a decisive victory but denying her a fight while launching guerilla raids all over their territory would break their spirit within a couple years and by the time that's you can march in without a fight as a saviour not conqueror.
Even more so, they had Tyrion and Jaime Lannister on their side, ensuring that the Westerlands also joins them (especially when they see Cersei stands no chance in the long run). Honestly I don't even understand why the lannister forces followed Cersei and not Jaime. Shouldn't Jaime have been the lord of the Westerlands either after he was released from the kingsguard and there is no other better heir? Jaime honestly should have taken the lannister forces north at the end of S7, leaving Cersei alone with the goldcloaks, kingsguard, loyalists from the Reach, houses from the crownlands, Euron and the golden company.
Why even March straight for Kings landing? Just march your army in a propaganda tour around Westeros converting the houses one by one. If Cersei wants to stop them she'll have to leave her fortified position and navy behind and come out in the open.
ShogunV yes thank you hahaha the whole “we have to take the capital” thing is so silly. Sure, take it eventually, after you’ve gathered enough men to bury the Golden Company
That is what I was hoping for.
Make the people riot and take down the Queen. If blood will be drawn, let it be by the people, not Daenerys herself. A hungry, dissatisfied population can do wonders, just look at the French revolution.
Then Cersei starts using wildfire, and Daenerys and her allies intervene to stop her.
Converting? 😂😂😂 The last house danaerys tried to get their allegiance and they refused were house tarly.....how did that end?
You're basically suggesting she goes round and roast anyone who turns her away....
@@pamoweiberezi5315 in a choice between being roasted and supporting Cersei, i doubt many would choose being roasted...
Which is pretty much the strategy Jon suggested to Stannis!!! Jon saves Stannis from making a suicidal strategic mistake of attacking the Boltons head-on at the heavily fortified Dreadfort and instead suggests a much better strategy of first aligning with the mountain clans (by eating & drinking with them), liberating the Deepwood Motte from the ironborn and thus earning more Northern allies from larger houses (Glovers). For crying out loud, Jon was 16 when he came up with that!
That ending made things so much worse and sadder. I love it. I would love to have watched that while crying at the death of the second dragon.
Imagine Cersei parading the dragon´s head over the walls of Kingslanding. THAT would be a propper trigger for Dani
This isn't just a better war strategy, but it is also a better plot. Watching the army march down the kingsroad is an extra episode for character development and plot movement. Arrival and set up at King's Landing is another episode as well. It just opens so many more doors.
I completely agree. I would have loved to have seen her army marching south on parade. I guess it would have been similar to the opening scene of S8E1 but on much larger scale.
@@abstractdaddy1384
Same. I was hoping for just *one* scene in the Riverlands, where the Blackwoods & Mallisters offer a force to Jon- so that their last contribution to the story wasn't just a throwaway line that they were in 'open rebellion' against the Freys, yet add nothing more meaningful to the story.
The Blackwoods are effing awesome- & could have possibly added something to both Bran & Jon's stories.
Non-book readers don't even know that the previous 3-Eyed Raven was, in fact, half-Blackwood (Northern house originally/ First Men) & half-Targaryen: Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven is one of the most fascinating characters I've ever read about; I even have a headcanon about why he ended up Beyond the Wall - a character that's been 'dead' for decades is more interesting to me, than the bastardisation foisted on us- same goes for Arthur Dayne; Dorne was butchered- the best parts of it ended up being someone who was long dead, & recently dead (Oberyn).
Sorry for my gushing, lol.
That ending he wrote was beautiful, and dat combined crest 👌🏼👌🏼
The only problem is - if Dany has popular support from propaganda and Missandei and the fleet isn't lost, Dany wouldn't go Mad Queen and there'd be a generic Hollywood pro-war ending.
There needs to be even smarter tactics from Cersei and Euron to weaken Danaerys.
WaveHello surprise ballista after faking a surrender might work. Plus have tension between dany and everyone else on the road and at KL.
@@LowestofheDead Perhaps she could go mad if everyone prefers John over her. Lines could be said about how he is his "father" Ned image, and how Ned and Robert leaded the rebellion against the Targaryen, thus planting more doubt and paranoia in Dany´s mind.
I hate watching videos where they complain about the progression, without having any valid point prepared. I understand opinions, that's a different thing, but to take the time to make a video, you need time to prepare with some facts.
The facts you brought was great. I loved how you refered to ancient/historical events to back up your statements, and a different proposal of how it SHOULD have played out was phenomenal. I rather watch your version of GoT instead of the current "lets kill characters just because"-version I saw last monday (timezones)
You had me in the first half I’m not gonna lie
Or use 1 dragon to take the city in 7 minutes. No army or tactics needed.
And dont forget that while the attackers are sitting outside the walls have the whole BALLISTA ARTILLERY AND ARCHERS ON THE WALL not shoot at them
Dragons just aren't that useful when the ironborn have cloaking technology and SAMs on board!
It doesn't matter what they do, Danny will forget about Cercie's army's.
could you spell any worse
Smoke some weed and furget abut everythingsy.
She will KINDA forget about Cersei's army.
And don't forget about cersie's ( S-400 advanced anti stealth air defense technology )Systems.
Along with ( Infrared electronically
Scanned array RADAR).
She forgot about Cercei's army but the army didn't forget about her...
Lets call the artillery what it is: A rail gun. This universe has rail guns now.
Plus Quyburns new Invention the "metallic Elephant" :D
@@ObiWanKowalski My queen, this invention travels through the stars and looks like a small planetoid, but is in fact a giant space station that contains a turbo laser powerful enough to destroy an entire planet. I call it the Iron Moon.
Give qyburn one more season and cersei will have nuclear warheads
Suprised the scorpion bolts didnt have a expanding tip ...
Well it has dragons and ice zombies, this isn’t that bad in comparison
*Improved Battle Plans - Nuking King's Landing with one fast dragon boi*
This has become my new favorite channel in the course of the past month or so. Seriously thank you , and hope to watch even more soon !!
1. Fire ships. Sail a dozen of them into the Harbor of King’s Landing.
2. Toss diseased bodies into the city.
3. Wait for the 50,000 or so Dornish troops.
4. Have Danaerys fly around the Westerlands intimidating Cersei’s remaining allies there into abandoning her.
5. Go to Oldtown and secure the support of the new High Septon and have him denounce Cersei and encourage the faithful to rise against her.
God damn that fanfiction was 10,000 time better than what we got.
Just imagining the wall of black sails appearing on the horizon while dani tries to protect her two remaining children.
Not to mention Urine personally killing her dragon with his bare hands would have made her rage towards him much more understandable. As it is, there's no way she could know he personally killed her dragons from that volley of balistas.
It's staggering how disappointing this season is. Such a great show being kneecapped in its final season is a tragedy.
they should have gone back to not actually showing us some events and in that way presenting them as impressive tactical moves or whatever, like robb defeating jamie which was awesome! instead we get stupid scenes i guess money is a part of why some of these scenes are as stupid as they seem such as half of the northern alliance beeing alive and so on.
Man even a 50cal sniper rifle would have a hard time hitting a dragon flying in the sky in a unpredictable path. The only way to hit dragons flying with the accuracy they had on the TV show is with a guided missile which Euron apparently has a bunch of.
@@Pwn3dbyth3n00b i think they replaced the accuracu with just sheer numbers. There was easily 20 volleys flying at the same time. Improves the odds of a hit
@@djayt1215 the first three arrows landed direct hits because of bad writing and Euron guided missile technology. Everything else missed after cause of bad writing.
@@djayt1215 It makes no difference. that is like trying to throw 10 rocks in the air to try and hit a bird. Let me know how that goes for you. You have a better chance at winning the lotto.
HBO should have hired you as the main coordinator for their war strategy in GoT.
That bit at the end was some of the best fan fiction I've ever heard. It was quite emotional just imagining Rhegarl being unable to escape due to his injuries. God i wish this show was better.
Past seasons: Not only are they great stories in the short term but they also lay a solid foundation for the ending.
Season 8: Folly prevailed.
Dude, this show has ranged from mediocre to terrible since at least Season 5.
great ideas man
you forgot to mention that the lion share of Cersei non-naval forces are mercenaries, as such letting your army rest while Cersei needs to feed and pay for those foreigners... the mercenaries will leave due to the amount of debt going sky high ,or the citizens will be very angry while Cersei up the taxes to pay and feed her army.
THANK YOU!!!
this exactly, if I was in Dany´s position I´d actually sail back to Essos and get some reinforcements while Cersei has to deal with a mercenary army that wants to be paid and the people in the city who have to be fed and/or want to go home again
partner this with maybe some abushes in the outskirts of Kings Landing and some spies in the city making propaganda for Dany and Cersei will eventually have to deal with a civil uprising of some sorts
Heh, "Lion's share."
@@RiobasTayem You forget about one simple thing - these mercenaries don't have to be paid right away.
@@MankindDiary that's true, but it would take some time to get to Essos and back to Westeros and the Golden Company could become restless without anything to do
You've highlighted my opinions of the episode perfectly, especially the naval battle and troop movements.
The show really needed someone to demonstrate real world examples to illustrate how the excitement and art of battle comes from two forces working their hardest to out think and outplay the opponent, not just 'oopsie doodles, caught out by many od the same challenges we've been caught in before".
Maybe the biggest sign of Danny going mad is even if she wouldn't rest the army, she wouldn't even rest her Dragon. Or we could have seen something novel like a pair of large barges with the fleet so they could roost at sea :)
When I saw the ambush scene from the last episode, I immediately thought of you and your Winterfell defense analysis! I hoped you would make another video similar to that one. I was not expecting it to be so good though! Not only did you point out the mistakes shown on the scenes, but also you praised and acknowledged the good parts, proposed a better and smarter strategy and even a more emotional death scene for Raeghal, who would have died from a real ambush and deception! You're awesome, man!
Your fanfic is orders of magnitude better than the show canon.
i can't believe we all have to call d&d's writing "show canon". it truly hurts.
You know damn well that GRRM won’t all this butchery to be his story.
Fanfic tends to be of a higher caliber than actual canon, except in the case of 50 Shades.
GoT AA technology is so accurate that if the WW2 combatants uses this tech it could have been the end of the aircraft carrier era.
No joke, those planes would be so doomed; gyro-stabilized, tracking computer predicting movements of aerial objects, and that firing arc and range... jesus, even if danys has 100 more dragons wouldn't have been enough... (edit: forgot to mention their surface to air radar...)
@@weitheweeb7150 Don't be surprised if Qyburn developes S-400s in the next episode...
@@soundwave2481 rofl!
@@soundwave2481 I don't be surprised if Gendry develops
Nano suits from crysis 3
Don't forget they take like 2 seconds to reload, otherwise Danny could have roasted them after they all missed her.
Fantastic arguments! I love the support from historical examples.
If the episode had ended they way you wrote it, fans surely would have been raving!
Dude. I’m so glad I found this video. Listening to and reading fanfic is the only thing that’s gotten me through my GOT breakup, and your battle strategies are by far the best I’ve seen. Also 12:30 and on gave me actual chills. In my mind, this is now how it went down! I can sleep well tonight.
The battleplans are so stupid and illogical because *the plot demands it*. It's just another stupid, contrived way to put Daenerys on a path to darkness.
The writing in Season 8 has really hit a new low, and that's really saying something after the recent seasons...
It was a ticking time bomb that started since season 5
@@leonpaelinck And yet the road to it was so forced, so what you said means absolutely nothing. Foreshadowing is lazy writing if the story doesn’t support it.
I LOVE THIS PLAN! Invicta should be made Hand of the Queen!
This was so simple yet so amazing. Especially compared to the garbage D&D are feeding us....
Beautiful fan fiction. sadly we ran out of CGI budget and had to go with cheaper script we got from the janitor from 3rd street...
They had to blow all the budget on Danny burning the innocents for 40 minutes straight
Do not insult the janitor from 3rd street. This was Dumb and Dumbers' work, a janitor could write much better, or at least clean this mess they made up.
first of all, your explanation of the episode was great, the best I have seen so far. Secondly, oh my your version of how they should have decided was amazing (military strategist ) and propaganda acts are always the first action any military takes before invading so I'm total with you in that plan. lastly, your fan fiction version at the end was 120% better then what the show decided to do and would have made more sense with the previous seasons decision the show itself takes. If I had any criticism, it would be that how didn't I know about your channel sooner.
HBO should hire Invicta as writer xD
your fanfiction is 100% more satisfying than the disaster ep4 was
These videos are so awesome!! Your documentaries are really great, but I totally would watch more of this type of content too!!
Hey man, cool vid as always. Your suggestion for the fate of the dragons was seriously awesome. That wrenching choice is like the early seasons!
Daenerys: "The longer I leave my enemies alone the stronger they become" shouldn't instead Cersei say "the longer I leave Daenerys alone, the greater her dragons become"??? the Field of Fire clearly established that 55K of men are no match for dragons :/
Kriegerdammerung Yes but Cersei has scorpions now, and Daenerys is afraid of being put aside by Jon Snow supporters so she needs to get the Throne quickly.
Technology has clearly improved since then. If a Ballista can penetrate a dragons scales an entire army equipped with such will be able to do the same.
@@MrUnicorn15 physics have also changed quite a bit. Wind differential, kinetic energy, and terminal velocity are all very different.
Dragons, White Walkers, the old Gods and the new are all just side quests. The main quest on this TV show is to find the Holy Gurl Powa.
@@warlordnipple Sadly yes. The script does not hold up when compared to the earlt seasons, it does not even hold up against the last seasons.
Jeez your story is good man...
Like definitely (first season) GOT standards acceptable ... Compared to the shit we are being served at the moment
D&D pulled a rian johnson and subverted everyones exceptions with a Hollywood cliche of a season
I remember what it felt like when Viserion went down. It was pretty heart wrenching despite how contrived it was to send a small raiding party on foot instead of on horseback, or JUST HAVING THE DRAGONS GRAB A WIGHT ON A FLYBY. I just laughed this time because of how stupidly absurd it was for no one in Dany's entire fleet to think that maybe they should scout out Dragonstone before they dock their ships.
Fax👏👏👏
The march down to King's Landing would also enable them to draw upon additional soldiers from Northern Lords located farther south, as well as gather soldiers from among the Riverlords and even from the lords of the Vale. It would also give Reachman and Dornish armies time to march toward King's Landing as well. They might even be able to call upon armies from the Stormlands by using this time to place Gendry on the throne of Storm's End.
At that point, they only need to worry about the stalwartly loyal Westerlands and the Iron Islands through Euron.
I love the description you made of the armies' march across Westeros ! I should have been very pleased to see that.
The way the show uses the dragons...... it just hurts. Personally, I'd never deploy them in daylight or in the vanguard.
They are the biggest weapons Dany has, but they are always on the frontline and vulnerable particularly when two of them mostly never had a rider, Cersei is smart that she keeps her biggest weapons and targets back as a final line of defence and her enemies might not even come close to getting them.
@Joe Arguin come to think about it, a night fury-hiccup duo can destroy the whole fleet, army in one night 😓
@Defsuz That projectile is pretty huge and would have lost a lot of force by the time it gets to the dragons too
@@MaestroJericho I thought those were ballistic missiles that were blasting holes in the dragons. It made a lot more sense before I realized they were big clunky spears.
Defsuz to be fair, the ballista were outright stated to be specifically made to kill dragons. This was demonstrated on balerion’s skull.
It is just a pitty that the show doesn't have world building consistency since at least the fourth season, travel time, losses, army sizes, nothing makes sense and that is why I can't feel invested anymore. They should have been reduced to a hundred people after what hapenned in 8.03, which is like ten times what they need to wreack an army according to Ramsay Bolton...
well cersei has 20k mercs and whatever Lannister forces are at kings landing, so maybe 25k total. for a successful siege the north would need 75k men. as it stands they should have no chance. the only way they can win is to starve the city (seems unlikely since the iron fleet controls the sea) or take an open field battle, which cersei would be stupid to give them
@@99Pierogies after seeing 08x03, i'm pretty sure cersei will meet them in open battle and lose the golden company in the process
@@pogchamp2897 Nope only the good guys make awfull decision in GoT...
@@SuperPostman mark my words dude
Dany also should’ve flown behind the iron fleet in this episode as he started targeting her northern ships.
That was my thought... the Scorpions were on the bows of his ships, she could have flown around the island or up and over to attack from behind. Or straight above, as they couldn't fire straight up. She could have used the same strategy at King's Landing - coming in quietly at night, dropping over the center of the courtyard and running a lap from the INSIDE. Did you notice the platforms the Scorpions were sitting on? They couldn't traverse to fire inside without walking their crews off the platforms. And they didn't nerf the Fleet, they took off their plot-armour... They were trying to hit a small-profile moving target from a rocking platform with 15th century technology. Not a chance.
I love the marching plan. It beutifully reflects the royal progress idea from previous Targaryan kings (starting with Aegon I). The only difference I would suggest is that she rides Drogon. It would reeinforce the believe that Targaryans are more than "normal" man. One Drawback would be that it may come of as threatening.
Another thing is : why didn't Daenerys expect Cersei to have ballistas ?
One prototype ballista had proven effective. And Cersei had plenty of time to prepare herself. Everyone knows that Daenerys' main weapon is her dragons. She should have expected Cersei to focus on anti-dragon ballistas.
eh, because if someone told me he wants to shoot dragons out of the sky with a ballista id laugh. Especially from a ship. In an ambush.
a) there is no reasonable way any kind of fleet would ever be able to "sneak up" on a flying unit, let alone enter firing range undetected. quite the opposite actually.
b) there is no way you can shoot even 19th century artillery and hit something on the first shot. Especially not a moving, worse, flying target. You have to range your weaponry beforehands to even have a chance of hitting something as small as a dragon
c) this is compounded by the fact that it is impossible with their technology to even range a dragon. You just cannot tell how far away this thing is and where you need to aim unless you have a lot of experience with the size and speed of dragons.
d) there is no way for them to realistically design and build the kind of weaponry that has enough range, precision and power to be a threat for a dragon in a way that allows it to freely swivel around and aim into the sky to hit the bloody thing. Real artillery is heavy and slow to aim and the range of movement is limited. for a reason
e) their ambush position is stupid. The way they bunched up their ships behind a cliff basically means they set themselves up for total annihilation in a short amount of time if they got spotted. Dragons could swipe n from above while having cover from the cliff. People from above can fire arrows and throw rocks or whatever you can imagine at them. They severely limit their movement and the wind they can catch, etc. The whole ambush situation was utter bullcrap
Your everywhere!
Your everywhere!
@@TheVergile And to add to that, for 5253 years of dragons, people tried to use Ballistas and crossbows and the only way they ever worked was if it hit dragons in their only weak spot, the eyes, since dragonscale and bone is much harder than steel. Aka, a ballista has a 1 in a million chance of killing a dragon.
@@reyne2878 HAHAHAH - one in a million. it might just work!
But that would require good writing. The writers of the GoT show have demonstrated that they are hopelessly lost once they have to come up with something on their own.
The line "that we got was pure incompetence" gained me. I agree with every single word of it.
Your proposed battle scene is SO much cooler. Props!!
Judging by how they defended the Winterfell...these stupid moves was not a surprise tho.
The show is falling so off especially in military aspects.
It died with tywin and robb.
The defense of winterfell was fine, stop with this armchair generals going by regular history. Its a night fight in winter against zombies. That strategy made sense in the context of that.
@@l3quack actually the military strategy of Ramsey was really on point in the battle of bastards.
@@k995100 it really didn't. Not going by precedents for it, it was so dumb.
And going by precedents is smart - the series is absurdly realistic, the books and the early show use battle strategies from real life to good effect while still making it interesting.
Just a couple of examples as to how the battle makes no sense from a non-precedent point of view:
- Oh, let's charge about 4000 Dothraki at 100,000 dead people, and see what happens!
- Let's put our artillery in front of the barricades, so they'll be destroyed when the dead charge! Also, let's only fire them once, so we don't hit our men, but let's not fire them at all after they're all killed!
- Let's stick half of our forces in front of the barricade, so we'll have to sacrifice them when we set it on fire, adding a few more thousand to the army of the dead needlessly!
- Let's keep only like 5 people on each section of wall, so they can easily be overrun, instead of taking those men we don't need at the front and putting them on the walls where they can easily pick off the dead!
- Remember when Ned Stark said "500 men could defend Winterfell against 10,000"? Let's just ignore the whole philosophy of that and just throw bodies at the army of the dead!
I could go on, but I feel bad for the people who put effort into making the show, as opposed to the writers who didn't.
Even players of medieval computer games would see how stupid the strategy used by the coalition at Winterfell. Heck, gamers would fare better defending Winterfell!
Its ok. Cersei will forget about Drogon.
Hahahah, this is an amazing comment
Perfect. Absolutely flawless. You would have had me in tears if this is how it went.
how you fixed it is a hell of a redemption for me, brilliant job done!
Man, David Benioff and D. B. Weiss’ writing sure have gotten worse when they didn’t have the book to use as a reference.
G. R. R. Martin is a genius.
A fat and lazy genious.
Daniel W
Yupp, thats it.
Daniel W The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring are the next two books that are yet to be published
After all that build up, Dany turned out to just be a massive dingus.
And Jon is even dumber
@@MineGames66 I swear at this point Cersei should win. Cause Its clear signals that Dany wont. And if they put jon on that throne and he becomes a Long and prosperous Ruler. THis show hasnt understood its premise or World. Jon is utterly incabable of dealing with the lords of westeros. He would be dead within a year (or 7 days if your the poetic type ^^)
Tyrion was referred to a "clever" , recently offering nothing but horrible ,empty headed strategies any rational queen would've dressed him in motley and cut off his tongue
@@tomw4955 Dany kills Varys, Jon kills Dany, Jon goes north, and Bran takes the throne.
Saved you the next two Sundays.
Welcome to the 'endgame'.
@@MineGames66 In his defense, he was never too bright, he never knew anything. Dany wasn't dingusy at all. Tyrion became dingusy, but we do know it may be because of lack of sex XD. Dany has absolutely zero excuse. Team Cersei 4tw.
damn man, i discovered you with your episode on the wintefell battle and you continue to impress me ! i was realy disapointed with the strategy of the season 8, thank you !
Your version of the episode is just perfect.
Damn, Euron piercing a spear into Rhaegals Head would be a VERY epic scene.
It also shows that the character is more hated than Joffrey
Isqandar Zulqarnain the difference is, we hated Joffrey because he was so well-written. We hate Euron because he’s SUCH a poorly-written missed opportunity.
Dude, that was a great alternate ending, I got pumped visualizing contact with the enemy...oh but man...Euron plunging a spear through rheagal's head would bring the fury of a thousand Ho doors from fans...........And be in true GOT fashion.......Long live Lord Eddard
eoe123321 and such death can also strengthen dany's reason for going mad
Lovely story, man, it’s a pity you wasn’t a part of this episode preparation. Thanks for your version, I was truly excited.
Why didn't *you* write the episode? It would have been so much better...
No, it wouldn´t.....