10 signs you are talking to a covert narcissist 1-boasting by dropping hints 2-gossiping and bashing others to elevate themself 3-criticizing you under the guise of being honest 4-unsolicited advice that doesn't suit your situation 5-playing the victim in every story but never taking accountability 6-incredibly self-centred in conversation 7-selective listening and fake empathy 8-defensive, they take offence over any disagreements 9-long list of expectations and one-way boundaries 10-they will project their undesirable traits onto others 5 ways you will likely feel after leaving a conversation with a covert narcissist 1-anxious and uneasy 2-diminished and inferior 3-confused 4-frustrated 5-drained cheers from southern ontario, canada 🍁
I always had a bad headache every time I spoke with my mom on the phone. Sometimes I would feel sick. Now, I won't talk to her on the phone at all. We live in different states. I haven't seen her in years and don't plan on ever visiting her again. I only respond to her texts using the fewest words possible and without giving her any information about me or my life. I never initiate communication. This has worked out well for me.
@Loveisallyouneed77 You'd almost think we talked to the same person. Arguments until 4am. Whatever you say they bring something new to hit you with. And if you, out of desperation, try to show what your problem is in all this they instantly throw the "it's all about you" card. She worked in healthcare. Every day there was the long story about all the things she did right and how the colleagues did everything wrong. Endless drama with friends and teaming up against one person of the group. The trash talking is real indeed. How this and that is not "normal", but only your stuff while carefully hiding their own traces. And of course letting you know the reaction of their friends, how they wouldn't be able to stick around like she does. How your responses were non-appropriate, because they never heard hers.
I absolutely could not figure out the roundabout conversations saying they were complete tennis 🎾 matches finally after decades and learning about narcism I slapped my own face at his remarks showing him the pain they instilled. Our relationship better now he's onto giving/showing more respect and less stress with kids moved out and successes themselves but they're dumb! My daughter's mad at me as she'd moved out when still at uni prior to covid against my wishes, mentioning this they ganged up on me, thus proving he will go against me with anyone as I'd stated prior!
@@eliprenten7066 , I call it the 'corkscrew' conversation. When all else fails they'll even try to move the goalpost or change the context to something unrelated by latching onto a word or phrase that you use - and when that fails then you'll hear "it's always about you" so the conversation (that they turned into an argument) changes because we naturally start defending ourselves. 🤨
All good ones. I would add that they don't let you have conversations with others. They will interrupt your conversation and literally make it about them.
I've dealt with many of these. The biggest one is the starting a conversation and then getting cut off midway through. I never got a chance to ever get my point of view or opinion across before it was always cut off
@@morebirdsandroses Or remembering exactly what you said, and condescendingly asking you to continue as if they hadn't just cut you off. Or another thing I've encountered, is after being cut off they just keep going on and on until I lose interest in even continuing my thought. Because it's been several minutes and the topic has changed so many times that bringing it back up would be counterproductive to the conversation. So I kind of just stop talking all together. I lose interest in conversations because, even though I am guilty of only conversing in topics I wish to talk about, the conversation usually ends up one sided. Because I can actually have an intellectual conversation and my intelligence or knowledge of the subject they think they know more about would make them feel inferior. This is why I don't generally like talking or engaging in conversations with people. Because they are usually shallow. And any attempts to add depth or knowledge or to teach something just gets shot down or deflected for something more shallow. Something that I can't add any feedback to. So they can control the conversation by not allowing me to add to it
@@nova396 I've just never had someone who could Intelligently challenge my opinions to make me change them. That may be a bit of ego. But my ego doesn't drive my thoughts and actions. It's very annoying to be talking intently about something you really enjoy talking about, only to be cut off and then left on read. While the conversation goes on to something entirely different. Anybody who has ever experienced it would know. But if you're the one who cuts people off because you don't want them to finish what they're saying, then you're the kind of person I don't enjoy talking to. I won't deny that I am a bit high on myself. But I'm not so high that my head is in the clouds. That I can't see other people's perspectives. I am a very good listener. I hear every word people say and consider my responses. Just because you don't want to hear my response isn't my problem. That's why I get cut off so often. Because I can have more than just superficial conversations. Because I have a vast knowledge and understanding of many things others wouldn't think. Sometimes more than whoever is speaking. And when you're dealing with people who don't see things the way I do. Only seeing themselves as superior. Having someone humble you as not being as superior as you thought really grinds THEIR ego to almost nothing. And when you're a person whose entire personality revolves around your ego, it makes you a bitter listener. Only wanting to hear yourself because you think you're right. And not wanting to hear anything someone else has to say because it challenges your own thoughts. Thoughts you thought were infallible. These are the kinds of people I refer to in what I was saying. Not just people in general. Because people in general are open to opinions and knowledge. Narcissists don't like it because I challenge their superiority. Who are very close-minded about new ideas and thoughts. Believing themselves as "having all the knowledge without need for more." "They know all there is to know and don't need to learn or change their way of thinking." It's those kinds of people who would actively seek to shoot down intelligent conversations because they lack the intellectual capacity to actually learn something new. If it's not a conversation that puts them at the center of it, they would have no part of it. So they do whatever they can to put themselves at the center of it. Even cutting people off mid sentence so they can steer it back in their favor
My father was a covert narcissist and that comment about "You will leave a conversation with them feeling exhausted" hit me so hard. That was exactly it. He would just exhaust you every time.
How to differentiate harmless people with ADHD or autism from narcissistic people: it’s the vibe! A lot of traits are similar! It may be annoying, but Most neurodivergent people are very accepting and warm hearted, still, they can accidentally zone out, Info dump, talk about themselves to help others, miss social hints, forget what you just said, coming along as rude and self centered. But the vibe tells the difference. Yes, It can be draining to talk to a ND person in hyperfocus or zoned out, BUT you won’t feel anxious, humiliated, depressed afterwards! ND people are oftentimes the least judgemental person in the room!❤
Omgosh you just described me! She was going through the list and I was starting to question if I am a covert narcissist....but in truth, I hate gossip, I don't have any interest in controlling people or positions of authority or power, etc. But, I definitely zone out at times (I feel terrible about it), am very forgetful at times, dump a bunch of info...sometimes unsolicited, etc.
This can lead to stereotyping. ND people are people just like anyone else, they are not more or less warm hearted. I think checking for the overall vibe , as you said, in addition to spotting behaviors is good advice.
The thing is... I've been learning a lot recently that ADHD/etc could be from ABUSE itself. Which is how narcs, etc are formed. I was ADHD and forced/drgged with ritalin at age 7. My abuse started very young, but my first?(maybe actually second) real trauma happened when I was 6 years old.
She went deep with this and every word of it is 100% true. 40+ confusing chaotic miserable years after a 19 year old young & dumb me married what I now know is a narc. Walk away and take any kids with you. A narc will never change and your life will never get better. Don't waste your youth or look back with regrets in old age. You deserve better. ❤
Wow, 39 years and 5 months for me. So many double standards. I am so tired from the lack of caring from her. I'm completely drained from all of the chaos that she continually creates; I just want it to end. I long for some peace and quiet, some calm in what little is left of my life. I wish I could go back and talk to the stupid, naive kid that I was all those years ago.
@@Nuculer9001 17 years is bad. You just had more willpower to get out sooner. That or you are a lot smarter than I was, which is more likely the case. Just pay attention to the red flags. Lord knows I wish I would have. No matter what the case, I am glad you made it out of the darkness.
And if the detached narcissist you were married to saw this video they'd be calling you the narcissist. So then, what is the basis for these truth claims? How many people on here just wanted to be left alone to play video games in their fifties or act like children rather than become responsible adults? The water gets muddy. So, what is the standard?
@johnbautiste For decades we have only heard about male narcissist, very rare talked about female narcissist. We all have narcissistic behaviour to some degree, but real narcissist are full of them self, and never cares about others, and only blame the other for there miserably being. Women narcissist are more covertly than men narcissist. I have encountered it in my family. I guess you never encountered are real covert narcissist, if you did, you would understand how they overtime bit by wearing you down, with no remorse or regrets
A phone call w a covert narc: they suddenly are talking with someone else in the house about an unrelated subject while you are waiting to continue the original conversation. Which becomes far less important due to the interruption!
Haha, I know, I’ve been on the receiving end of that one plenty of times! And sometimes she wouldn’t even just speak to someone else, she’d shout! Without of course moving the phone a little away from her mouth….it used to make me feel so unimportant and negligible….now it seems rather funny.
i’m chuckling out loud. I put the phone up in the air and count to 10 go down to the receiver to see if they’re still caring on the phone may go up again. It’s rather comical when my husband comes into the room and he knows who I’m talking with or whatever this is.
The malignant narcissist I was involved with for eight years, his big schtick was triangulation. According to him, a constant stream of supposed exes were clamoring for him to return to them. Later, I found out the majority had never dated him, but some of the "exes" were from as far back as the THIRD GRADE! This guy was a party of one who tried to get me to believe he'd been with over 40 women. When I learned the truth, I couldn't believe I'd fallen for his BS for so long.
I knew someone who was evidently a narcissist some years back. My mother had just died and I was telling her how I felt the local hospital had let her down. This woman's response? "Well, let me tell you what happened to me in that hospital." Not even an expression of sympathy. Just straight on to her and her issues. Everybody else who knew her seemed to adore her, she was very well liked. it was incredible. It was as if I was the only person who could see through her. There is only one way to deal with a narcissist. Identify them and withdraw your social contact from them. Isolate them. Leave them alone. Do not waste your time or attention on them. These people are not capable of change of improvement. They are unsaveable. They're parasites.
This is sometimes a way that people relate to others. It's not always that they're trying to make it about themselves. Though, I guess if you know the person well you would know the difference.
@@chaoswitch1974I agree. Sometimes someone’s story is SO relevant and poignant, the only way I can make clear how much empathy I have for them is to tell them a story of mine where I felt the same way for the same reasons…. In that way we bond more because we have a shared experience and understanding even though there are two different stories. But yes, she only shared a snippet. The full picture may still be a narcissist. Though the last paragraph sounded so incredibly mean and intolerant. If she didn’t find empathy from that friend, just don’t hang with that friend anymore… no need for all those other words/tactics.
A female lead I work with checks all of the boxes. She's really sneaky and good at lying and putting on an act. This video only confirms what I've been experiencing.
Its a good that people are getting educated about narcissism. But the problem is narcissism has become the most common accusation for people to use as a weapon against someone in an argument. So narcissists will never admit to themselves that they are narcissistic. Narcissism is the real zombie apocalypse 🧟♀️ 🧟♂️ 🥺🧟♂️ 🧟
And then accuse the accuser of projecting. 😖 Narcissism has always been a problem. We just have a specific word for it, that encompasses the lying, sneaky, batshit insane, mean-spirited, hypocritical drama queens. We who are in the know can simply file away the information for self-protection instead of making the accusation. My husband accused me of being unable to control my emotions. Years later, he told me that he couldn't hug me unless he felt like it. Narcissists calling other people narcissists is actually kind of convenient, as it's tattling on themselves with a word that can sum up multiple aspects of their craziness. It's just important to know about projection and how it functions.
At least you're radically (and humorously) honest about your inability to spot it. Cut yourself a LOT of lack though. Love, a sense of loyalty and gaslighting on their part would make even the most emotionally intelligent of us rethink EVERYTHING.
God bless you , i broke up with my narc after one year of hell I must admit these footages kept me from going back to hell i was used to . Anyways glad you are out of hell bro , it takes a big heart to get out of a toxic bonding ❤
Only 45 years 😩🤣… I feel your pain . I got clued into what I was attracting ( narcissists ) over 10 years ago and I still attract them and get sucked in . I can’t seem to find normal partners . At this point I’m convinced I’m supposed to be with narcs as some form of a karmic lesson .
A big one not listed here is...Coverts can listen intently and make you can feel very heard and validated but they don't really care about you...they are only gathering data to use against you. This is part of the honeymoon phase...you will forever be trying to get back to that connection that becomes a mere glimpse of it after they are done needing to get amo on you.
Thanks Lise, my ex narc girlfriend would actually often ask my advice but she would almost never take it. In fact she would often brag about how someone else gave her different advice and she would take that. She enjoyed making me feel insignificant that way. One of the weird things I noticed right away when we first met is she would ask me a lot of questions about myself like she was interested but it sounded clinical like she was checking off items on a list. Very strange. As far as empathy I cant tell you how many times she would tell me how empathetic she was. If someone is truly empathetic they never have to say so with words they let they’re actions speak for themselves. She was always talking about empathy but didn’t really have any, wow. Omg talk about double standards. She was the queen of double standards. It was perfectly okay for her to smile at another guy when we were together but god forbid I were to smile at another girl it would be a disaster. She also had guy friends but I wasn’t permitted to have any girls as friends. I told her many times that was a double standard and she never had a good response. So glad I dont have to deal with that stress any longer:)
@@Henry1965ism, Right on! Those narcs ALWAYS have a secret life somewhere somehow and they have no qualms with humiliating their partners behind our backs.
What weirdos, mine would ask a question, I'd answer and he'll have the nerve to say he doesn't know... Hun? What's he bothering me for then, oh just to bother me, got it! 😊
Same here. I’m terrified of trying to navigate the dating scene because I can’t trust my own judgement. Just found out who I thought was a good friend had all the red flags but i completely overlooked them. Very frustrating to say the least.
Seems all of us who have dealt with these DEMONS and got out alive …now we all have no desire to date anyone We were fooled ! Hurt Dragged Smeared Replaced Dragged again It’s terrible I wish for you all to heal and breathe easy and KNOW you are protected !! We made it out alive n that’s not easy !!
Basically sums up the whole experience. Fell for it because the person claimed to be the victim of a narcissistic ex partner, but it took me a while to realize maybe they both were.
Exactly. I think quite a few people who are complaining about their narcissistic ex are actually the narc, themselves. Because one of the hallmarks of narcissism is having no self-insight, and projecting your own faults onto others. If a narc comes out of a bad relationship, would they ever say “well, I am a narcissist and treated my partner badly”, or would they say “my partner was a narc”? Sometimes I read threads where mothers claim their children are narcissists. Now, that may be the case. But often I get a strong vibe about the mother, herself…saying things like the child is “ungrateful”, had “a perfect childhood” etc. You know?
The worst 3 years of my life dealing with a covert narc. I biggest thing i felt was embarrassment knowing i put up with the manipulation for so long, and once they had gotten their fill i was thrown in the garbage like a piece of trash... however now that im free i now know how strong i really am to get out in tact with my sanity.. years later im stronger than i ever was before building my life back again. One of the hardest lessons of my life, but also Im thankful for the lesson.. because i wouldnt be who i am today... the biggest revenge is happiness and moving on with your life
Two more signs you're dealing with a narcissist I would add is if you confront someone over their dishonesty or passive aggressive behavior and they respond by trying to gaslight you and say you're imaging it or you discover they tried to immediately escalate and preempt your concerns by triangulating with people in your common social circle by telling them a false narrative about the situation thats misleading and completely out of context to make you look bad.
⭐Triangulation is a big one. Don't let them bring in other names when they are criticizing you. Tell them, "This conversation is between me and you. I don't want you to tell me what others are saying about me. Let's discuss things between us." Triangulation can cause a big mess and so much confusion. You won't really know if the narcissist is telling you the truth when they are relaying a message to you about what others are saying about you. Don't believe without proof. Actually, you can go to that person and ask for yourself. I believe much of the time they are lying.
👍Basically, you should use your gut instincts. Even if you don't know everything that is going on, if you feel like something is wrong, it probably is. No need to really second guess yourself. You can try discussing it with the narcissist. If the narcissist begins their bad behavior, close your mouth and do what you will do, even if it is against their wishes. Nothing bad. Some narcissists don't play fairly. If they are trying to take advantage of you, do things to protect yourself. Depending on the situation, shut everything down if you need to. Some narcissists can be predatory. They may try to be manipulative by giving you their sob story. In many cases, you may need to ignore it and keep a straight face.
Had a neighbor who (IDR the reason why) said ‘nobody likes you’. I’m thinking yeah, don’t you sound like you haven’t left 7th grade 🤨😂. I have a pretty good repartee with the neighbors, although some of them can be the ‘all about me’ type of convos. I think the first neighbor was simply projecting her bad feelings onto me. Rather than waste time getting involved in her negative bid, I just ignored her. :P
Your observation about "feeling of exhaustion" after having a conversation with a narcissist was very enlightening. I just realized that maybe most introverts are introverts because most people who surround them are narcissists. If introverts were surrounded by empaths maybe they wouldn't be introverts.
My ex-girlfriend: 10/10 of these! Textbook covert narcissist. Had never had any experience dating a narcissist, and so being in my mid-40s I thought I had been around the block a bit. Boy, was I wrong! Two years on, I've gotten over it, but have no desire to date anyone.
I think i read somewhere. In conversation. That if you speak in a complementary way about anyone. A narcissist will squirm in their seat. I have a covert narcissist in my life. She Is off the charts 😂 i can’t get away from her. So i just make sure i notice and point out other peoples good qualities in her presence it’s unbelievable. She hates me. 😁
I am SO thankful for number 5. If my ex hadn't accused me of being a narcissist, I probably would have never dove into the subject and done some research. I only wish Lise had been on youtube back then. Had to watch a bunch of less effective creators drone on and on... and even confuse me. Lise has the best channel of all I have come across.
Same happened here, she accused me n even sent CZcams shorts of how I one but I was too clouded in anger to connect the dots. Eventually I googled “why does my gf have 0 empathy” why won’t she speak to me etc n it came up n then it made sense why she sent me such vids, projection
I watch videos like this, mainly to make sure I am not developing any of these narc traits. Second to avoid those with them. Checking my self. In the end I have to look in the mirror and be ok with who I see. You always got you, good or bad.
It's not enough to just point a finger at a covert narcissist. I've come to realize just how much I have had a lot of these qualities. My mother had these qualities in spades. My older sisters all had/have the same qualities. My father was cold and abusive, so I learned little from them except how to behave like them. I have a long journey to undo this training. There's little sympathy for the bully. But remember that all bullies have had a bully in their life.
Great remark, Lucas. I’m to some extent in the same boat as you. I feel very frustrated when dealing with them but I know they can’t help it. It makes a lot of people angry when I say that. They’re worried that understanding narcissists is enabling them. For me, it’s almost the contrary. Being angry with them is enabling them. It’s an intense and unhealthy form of engagement. I see narcissism as a tragic coping mechanism, also tragic for the narcissist. A narcissist is a drowning person. Yes, they’ll pull you down with them, so don’t try to rescue them (unless from a big distance.) But they’re still people. I’m removing myself from my older sister’s life, currently, because contact is too damaging for me. But I see the tragedy of her life. Even if she doesn’t. (She has vetoed any talk of the past, of our nasty childhood especially.) It’s from observing her that I’ve realised how much narcissism destroys. My sister doesn’t seem to feel able to relate on an equal plane with others. Always feels herself above others, and is therefore tragically alone. I’m not sure she has a genuine, deep bond with anybody. Even with pets she has a kind of weird relationship. She says she loves them (only since recent years btw) but cannot seem to truly relate to them. Hard to explain. I’ll be working on myself for the rest of my life, like you. You know when I started to feel really free? When I no longer felt I had to be “right”. It’s kind of a knee jerk reaction our brain has. But now, when I’m in any sort of difficulty with someone else, I think “what did I contribute to this?” It’s counter-intuitive, for me, and it’s immensely freeing. (I’m not talking about assigning blame, of course. It might just be a realisation “well, I kept hanging around for the abuse, that’s understandable because I didn’t realize it was ok to walk away, but it might be better if I left this situation instead of hanging around.”) It makes me live (more) without resentment. And resentment is the narcissist’s game.
I definitely have covert traits, but the more people disengage and ignore, the worse it gets. I can work on myself, be highly aware of how I am, but I see these traits creep in from my family members and I have to realize I’ve picked up poor behaviors from many people around me. My family has covert and grandiose traits and I think sometimes I end up the scape goat and it’s projected onto me. Then I feel victimized. My mother was very emotionally neglectful and it really damaged me. I have almost no relationship with her. I worry that the narcissistic narrative is going too far in our society. I see how the narcissist is demonized and how they may be pushed into being even more terrorizing when they are likely surrounded by people with narcissistic traits themselves. I have done a lot of therapy, I see myself clearly, but I don’t feel that anyone around me cares all that much to see me get better or feel better….everyone stays as self absorbed as they always have been. Then I wonder if I’m the one who is abnormally self absorbed or if I’m really assessing things correctly and when I say something, the projection starts. I hear you about the enabling and how we fail to see the human behind the coping mechanism. It’s been hard for me to really buy into all the narratives about narcissists when I’m aware of my own and others pain. I get angry because no one seems to have compassion for my failings and hurts, they just tell me that I need to work on myself and abandon me in almost every way imaginable. It’s really painful and very isolating. No amount of self awareness or self care moves the needle on my loneliness in the world. I’m starting to believe that discussing narcissistic traits is demonizing people beyond repair or reproach; this is unfortunate and is causing a lot of damage in society.
@@lilamiranda33 Hi Lila, I agree with you - the narcissist narrative has gotten out of control, it’s like the new witch hunt, a way to project all evil unto others and believe the rest of us are ‘good’. Very handy! I don’t want to think how many narcissists are out there talking on forums about their terrible, ‘ungrateful’ narcissistic children. (I see that a lot. The word ‘ungrateful’ when used for children is an immediate red flag to me.) So, you’re worried about your own narcissistic traits. Well, almost everyone has some, so that’s a safe bet, anyway... If you were truly narcissistic, and even if you’re not, I’d recommend the channel HealNPD. This is a channel by dr Mark Ettensohn for narcissistic people. Not for malignant narcs, I’m sure. He explains, with compassion, what it’s all about, and it helps me to understand what is going on with my family members and also with myself. (Up to a point - I’m not a narcissist, although I’m sure I have traits.) Another great channel (along with the present one, of course) is Crappy Childhood Fairy. You’ll love it. It’s not about narcissism but about the thing I’ve been diagnosed with, and you may have going on, too: cPTSD. Anna explains so well what happens to people who grow up in dysfunctional families, and what I really like is that she doesn’t just talk about what has been done to us but also about our own resultant dysfunctional behaviours. I kind of feel myself calming down (from the pretty much constant anxiety) when I listen to her, because things start to make sense. She says that loneliness is probably the number one result from cPTSD. It’s ingrained in us because of our background. I know that I’ve had to get a lot of therapy, when I was young, to be able to connect to people. I do it very easily, now, though I still feel that core loneliness and probably always will. But I shudder to think where I’d be without the therapy. You say people abandon you and tell you to work on yourself. Now, Anna has much better insights on these things than I do, so be sure to check her out - I’m just rambling along, here, and wonder if the people that tell you to work on yourself are your disordered family members? Because that is par for the course, they always tell you what’s wrong with you and that you need therapy. It’s never their issue, not even partly. My deeply disordered aunt, that I lived with, was forever telling partners, relatives and friends that they needed therapy. Never set foot inside a therapy office, herself. Meanwhile she’s physically abusing me and her boyfriend on an almost daily basis. Funny, when you come to think of it! On the other hand you may have some dysfunctional behaviours, yourself. Well, almost certainly, because that’s what cPTSD does. And it’s possible that people abandon you because of that. That used to happen to me when I was young - I didn’t realize how I turned people off. Just like my sister still doesn’t realize how she drives a wedge between herself and her loved ones. Probably never will, because I believe she is narcissistic and she’s unable to see her own pain and her own shortcomings. I hope you’ll work on yourself, but not because other people tell you to. It’s immensely freeing to discover what a pain in the ass you can be, and to become less uptight about it and smile about it if possible. Which won’t, incidentally, be possible around your disordered relatives because they’ll be shaming you for your shortcomings, and using them as a weapon. If they truly are narcissistic, you’re unlikely to ever get the warmth and acknowledgment from them that you crave. Absorbing that loss and accepting things for how they are is a necessary step. Another aunt of mine was in her sixties when she still tried to get validation from her mother. That’s because so often it looks like it’s close! You can almost touch it! But it will never, ever be there. I don’t see how one can get healthy without mourning that loss and moving on. Well, etc. I hope you check out Crappy Childhood Fairy. If you do, let me know what you think!
@@lilamiranda33the reality is everyone has narcissistic tendencies and will be self involved, so rather than worry about the peopl3 who can't be there for you (presumably to protect themselves, from certain triggers or behaviors) just keep pouring the compassion into yourself. As your cup starts to fill, relationships will start to grow more naturally, with people that are compatible. You are not your behaviors and you deserve compassion. I wish you well❤
@lilamiranda33 There's a statistic about how many abusers change. The number is less than 5%. I've never heard a better rate for Narcissists. Furthermore, you are responsible for you. When you mistreat people, that's on you. It's your fault you mistreat people. When I get impatient with the kids because that's what my mother taught me, that's on me, I did that. What my mother did to me is on her, not me. So I'm really unsympathetic with your pity party. You seem to be blaming your family for making you that way and complaining that people have low expectations for you. If you're going to shrug and say your family made you that way, that's why people have low expectations. You make sure you don't mistreat people. If you don't know how you should treat people, go learn. Study positive, healthy people. Read "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. Come up with game plans on how to solve an argument with being toxic. If you're going to therapy to change the people around you, you're wasting your time. You're complaining that you've been going to therapy, but the people around you are the same. Of course they are. Therapy doesn't work on people who aren't with the therapist. Therapy doesn't even work on people with the therapist unless they do some painful, serious work. Your focus in therapy should be about changing yourself and how you interact with the world. You say people abandon you. Not discussing Narcissism isn't going to fix that. If they ditch you, it's likely because they themselves are toxic, they don't understand the value of committment, or you're mistreating them. If they ditch you because of the first two reasons, there's nothing you can do about it. Refocus your energy. If you're mistreating them, stop it. Nobody has a right to mistreat anyone, no matter the pain. The Narcissist narrative is not responsible for making Narcissists worse. Narcissists behave badly because they choose to. Unless someone is literally holding you hostage, your actions are your own. Your family's actions are their own. You're literally contradicting yourself. You complained about the low expectation that Narcissists can't change and you've insinuated that people can't help it when they mistreat people. So which is it? Can a Narcissist choose the right thing and change or are they hopeless cases and victims of circumstance? You're complaining about your enviroment. Fix it. If it's that toxic to you, get a new one. I did. It took years, but I did. You can work towards that, too. Furthermore, even in a toxic enviroment, I still endeavoured to choose the right thing. I didn't allow myself to hurt people. It's not that I never did, it's that I took responsibility when I did and recognized it was my fault and fixed it as best I could. Being in pain is no excuse. Either you can change despite your circumstances, or low expectations are justified. Your pain can't be fixed through external means. Narcissists don't have the worst pain, they have the most toxic, unacceptable coping mechanisms. They need to stop it. So aside from literal hostage crimes, nobody makes anybody do anything. If I can choose to be kind to people, despite being around a Narcissist, you can to.
A lot of people on here saying how most people these days seem to be narcissistic in some way and they do have a point. However, I would say that a tell-tale sign you've been dealing with the real thing is just how drained, exhausted and depressed they leave you feeling. In my own life, an ex from the past got hold of me on Linkedin. It didn't take long before even her casual catch-up messages included elements of all 10 of Lize's points. The things that really sood out were the fake flattery, the victimhood, the sob stories and the overly emotional and boundary-violating nature of her questions about my own life. It's been a sobering and eye-opening reminder of why I broke up with her in the first place (and thought her a narcissist at the time) and also of just how much I value my peaceful, single existence 😂. But back to my original point, she's super-draining - in a way that more normal people just aren't. I'll be fine by the way (grey rock specialist! 😂👍).
In my experience with my mother-in-law, the only solution was to stay away. There is no other solution. Any communication, regardless of whether it includes some manipulation
When you are in their presence after periods of no contact their behaviour is amplified which validates your decision. It's validating and empowering....time apart does heal ❤💔❤️
I lived all of this. It exhausts me just remembering it. I wish interactions like this on no one. I am hopeful that your videos prevent someone else from entering into a relationship like this. Nice work.
My step mother in-law is a lower mid-range narc, per HG Tudor. Full no contact now for over a year and it feels great! She is a truly sick, cold, mean, cruel, and empty person. We try to see my father in-law when she’s not around, she’s a very difficult person to be around but she projects that onto everyone else. I’m calm and mind my own business, but I seem to be the problem in her eyes… she is perfect! She knows everything! She’s even convinced her husband that he knows nothing and he must rely on her at all times. Stay away from these people, they’ll make you sick.
So, the ‘covert bragging’ is one variation, but the guy that comes immediately to my mind when I hear the words ‘covert narcissist’ didn’t really brag about himself, he kind of ‘bragged’ about how badly life had treated him and how everyone was unkind to him, how everyone tried to take advantage of him. His own failures (alcoholism was one, he’d been fired from his job for showing up drunk in the morning) were also something he was bitter about. And the fault of his girlfriend, because she had made him drink. I think I’d have found him easier to be around if he’d been truly bragging rather than spreading a kind of misery that you somehow ended up feeling guilty for. I’m not expressing this very clearly… he was as it were reverse bragging. He bitterly mentioned that he was unattractive and would say things like “stop talking about the beautiful people!” It was as if he took a grim pleasure in the way things had gone against him, in his own lack of success etc. He was singularly unpleasant to be with. Oh, I remember an incident where he had to give a lecture and said he was nervous about it. His girlfriend said: “you’re very good at this, I know you’ll do well!” He looked at her contemptuously and said ”yeah well, that YOU think so doesn’t mean anything.” When I told him I had a next appointment and had to go he wrote to me later (hand delivered in my mail box) that he’d looked up the bar where I supposedly had a meeting and it didn’t exist. I wrote back saying it did exist (it did, of course) because I didn’t know yet that the only appropriate answer to that sort of accusation is “ok.” No explanations, no defense. I wrote this at length because he was a fascinating character, really. Though not one you wanted to hang out with. Such a draining personality.
I've met this person you describe here! No matter what you do or how hard you try to set things right the goal posts will move. The secret agent mode when you tell him you have to go to a meeting is also something I experienced. It's creepy stalkerish.
I didn't even know what narcissistic meant. Until my ex accused me of being one. After reading up on it and after some self doubt and some weeks of questioning myself, I realised that it was her that was the narcissist. She was also doing things that she claimed that she hated in people. It was abuse from day one. I often wonder whether any part of her really loved me at all at anytime. I used to feel so lucky like I'd won the lottery numbers when I first got together with her. She used to often say to me that she could have anyone but that she CHOSE me. Someone told me that it was her that hit the jackpot with me and that she was like a lottery winner that didn't know what to do with the money and would blame others for losing it. She also used to say how all her exes cheated on her. How she was treated so badly etc... I realised that with all her failed relationships...she was the common denominator. She hurt me deeply numerous times and I'd literally break down in tears sometimes when she was right there in front of me. She barely even flinched. She didn't even care that she hurt my feelings. She would almost just look blankly. It ended a few months ago but I also think it's going to take another few months for me to get back to myself.
Let me share with this community. When I finally realised I was dealing with my second wife, a narcissist (I know, it's my fault. My pattern of behaviour), I filed for divorce, after 8 years together, despited it's so difficult to do so (trauma bond) But she plays superior: filing for marriage annulment at church, blaming, and demeaning me, as usually she used to do against her 7 past partners. Thanks, Lise! I stopped being blind!
Ahh, the Religion thing. Me too.. My daughter was heartbroken. . We were married for two years before she was born but it was the Annulment thing, felt denied and "illegitimate" in the eyes of God.
Marriage annulment that's pretty funny, I went for justice of the peace myself, cheap fast no ring no dress 1 night honeymoon and still he complained, popped out 2 kids one after the other at his demand, even signed pre-nup moved against my wishes, I'd lived there ate teen yrs, we were neighbours.... Never worked again, might as well give him something worth complaining about 😊 ❤!
Just ended a friendship with a covert narc. Ticks every single box including the last one. When I told him the friendship was over, he told me I had a narc/bpd personality disorder and he was "glad he hadn't fallen for it" 🤣🤣🤣
The person I like is 100% identical to every point; incredible how identical she is to all 10 of these points. I'll keep my eyes open for someone better
I've been hestitating to click on this topic of discussion cuz I saw the words covert narcissist in a video title months ago and immediately identified this lady that I don't like at work is a covert narcissist and then immediately identified that I knew that because I also was. And I definitely am and I really hope I can curtail it. It's certainly more helpful than actually engaging with her as a rival, and hopefully I can learn to listen to others.
I believe that everyone has at least one narcissistic tendency. I know that I do just because it was presented to me. But a tendency here or there doesn't mean the actual NPD. Especially if you are aware and want to make changes. Narcissists are deliberate, unapologetically so. And it normally will be based on a "wrong" or perceived "wrongs" done to them that they hang on to.
This channel is one of my TOP 2 favorite CZcams channels on Narcissism which I watch everyday to stay sane and not fall into a deep depression. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thanks Lise - you’re so right on all accounts! Wish I had seen this video before I got in a relationship with a covert narcissist. Took me 10 years to figure out what the heck was going on and now I just live with it. Be careful out there everyone - especially if you’re kind and sweet and empathetic!
Wow, this describes my family members perfectly!!! There is no way to have a discussion with them to resolve anything, they do not want to resolve they want to win.
I got played by a narcissist for two years. I turned the tables and figuratively tore her to shreds. Outta my life forever. And I hope I don’t sound like a narcissist for celebrating my win.
The area where we live oozes with narcissism. My husband & I are in our 70s. The last narcs we finally got rid of was a week ago, a Christian family trying to buy our property. It was their dream home & thru prayer God told them they should pay $300k. (Mkt/list price is $650k). They breached the contract & backed out on a gamble we would come down to their offer. It backfired & then came the abuse. This one lasted a month. Before that, one year ago, a Christian family bought the property next to us. They offered us $100k cash, twice for our property. We refused. The bullying began. We ignored & refused to engage regardless of their despicable tactics to break us. Once rid of them, another slithers in. They’re exhausting soul sucking parasites. You cannot educate yourselves enough; for us we’ve been educating ourselves for 3 years. With each, we get better at spotting them. We’re in hopes of getting the time reduced to one conversation lol
I appreciate the early caveat here that narcissism comes on a spectrum, like many things. You can be a bit narcissistic or overwhelmingly, constantly selfish. I say this because i recognize conversational traits i, and others close to me, often display. That is the interruption or immediate rejoinder of, "Oh wow! That happened to me, too! I know exactly what you mean... okay, this was about 15 years ago, when i... i... i..." etc. Most people do this pretending, or believing, that they are showing solidarity with the original speaker, relating how understandable their situation is, etc.; acknowledging that the topic resonates with them. A close friend of mine who does this, like other people i've known, defends it as needing to say their part because their memory is getting bad and if they don't blurt things out the instant they think of them, they'll forget them, and they really think their contribution will enrich the conversation. So you see, i am doing this right now, and so is almost every other commenter: Saying Yes, yes, listen to how it happened to me, or to the narcissists I've known! How do we know, then, when the behavior is actually anti-social, self-aggrandizing BS, and when it is merely enthusiastic participation in a two-sided conversation? I think it's how it goes when you call them on it; when you say something such as, "I'm sorry, can you please let me get my story out without interrupting; this just happened and it's important to me that you hear it,"-- the reply from the possible narcissist can be either something like, "Omigosh, yes, i'm sorry, please carry on..." (even if perhaps making a mental note to share their own story later, much later); or it can be what Lise here mentioned, the accusation of you yourself being a selfish narcissist, and the turning of the discussion of any topic into an ad hominem argument. (Now here i go with my "I" story: This happened a lot in my last relationship. We would be talking about some topic that had absolutely nothing to do with my or his psychology or morality or emotional health. Let's say, about flea medicine for the cat. I would suggest it was time for more; he would assert that he thought the cat was fine, that it had only been 3 weeks, or whatever. But to solve the disagreement, instead of turning to something such as "Let's check the calendar to see when it was last given," it would be, "You ALWAYS want to give too much. What is that about you? You just like playing doctor?" And then, even worse, a turn further away from the topic at hand and into relationship competition: "And how come you always disagree with me?" etc.) Anyway, i appreciate the video. Very recognizable and common personality type!
1:56 - #2 is the biggest clue that their shit-talking is eventually coming for you! The way they gossip about others- and as she points out - strangers in a nasty way that's uncalled for, there's a first sign of a brief mask slip.
I have a cluster of some of these traits, especially asking for opinions to create an opening for myself. But it varies, and I'm not uninterested in what other people have to say, especially not when I'm reflecting about it afterwards in solitude. When I was a kid I had trouble to express myself (lack of verbal fluidity and self confidence), so I often sounded dumb even though I'm quite smart. It was so frustrating. I'm still struggling subconsciously with the memories of these events (even though my ability to express myself today is much better), which makes me overprove myself. But I'm trying to make the people around me aware of it so that they ignore it.
I think it's normal to seek validation. What distinguishes the narcissist in my opinion is their need to diminish others and their utter indifference to the suffering they inflict.
All these videos are great in a number of ways, but they are always about someone else. The person opposite us. It's important that we look at ourselves as well. I show at least a couple of these traits as do a number of people I know. At the same time I'm able to feel and show empathy. I have a friend who's very self centred, outwardly confident, inwardly insecure, shows a number of these traits to the extremes. He also has a big heart and is very capable of thinking about others and acting on it. We are all complexe and capable of good and bad behaviours.
Agreed, we all are complex and there's a bit of Narc in all of us.. The biggest clue is the real Narc is totally disinterested in your life, especially the happy things. They also will not be there if others are ill.
We may be capable of bad behaviour but really what bad things do we do which follow patterns and hurt other people consistently? We don't have disorders because we swear when we get a parking ticket.
@@Calidore1 Well, there’s the danger. Of dividing people in two groups - the disordered, who are ‘bad’, and we who are good. We’re ‘empaths’! So we never have to look too critically at ourselves. Most people have narcissistic tendencies, even if we don’t have the full blown personality disorder. I agree with Philip completely, we have to look at ourselves, too. Putting the badness all in others is a way to stay stuck, and get complacent.
I think 100% of these covert narcissist have a PhD in acting it truly is spectacular for no other word. The performances that they decide to present. I wish I had picked it up years and years ago, but I have now and I’m coming to terms with it but geez, it’s taking so much work and the hours- therapy understanding the dynamics of it all
I recently came across your channel and I feel that you "get" all the behaviours better than anyone educating on these subjects. You give real examples which helps the understanding.
Brilliant commentary on Narcissists. The only symptom/observation not mentioned was them calling everyone else Narcissists before returning to the topic of themselves. One of my favorite things to do is get 2 together in a social environment and leave them while they bloviate. It takes them a little while to realize I've left. They were too busy talking about their own great moments and achievements.
My ex used to slam her fists and get super angry when she didnt get her way. Sad we had a child together(although i always love my daughter, she is so special), I am forever tied to her as she dragged me to child maintenance court (while I was unemployed, and close to the court date she moved 1200km away with my child), even after i paid for all the financials 75% of the time. I was so depressed I had a drug addiction; only after seeing a licensed therapist, did all this behavior make sense. She also had her mom side against me. Im not perfect, my pshyc told me I draw broken people to me, and it is so true.
thank you, I started listening to videos about narcissism about 8 months ago. was with a person for 10 years, it all finally clicked. although I could never quite pin point when I was with him. I drank alcohol to keep these feelings down and did not know it. my own body was sick and tired of the games and it took my mind a long time to catch up. after 10 years he discarded me because of the way I was "always acting and I would never change, or be better, or why can't I just be like I was in the beginning. such manipulation.
I find it amazing that you have never met her, yet you know her so well. 30 years in and thanks to you, I now know her too. So much damage has been done. I am but a shadow of my former self.
I met this specific person at work I just started 3 weeks ago. Exactly like Lise described. This person is like a energy vampire. Today I quit my job because of this person. 😂. I feel good. Mentally & physically.
I’m married to a narc but I always start to panic that I’m a narc when I hear some of the initial symptoms, but then I remember that I’m AuDHD and I’m not faking or pretending and that’s the big difference. I might not notice I’m annoying someone and I have learned that the verbal stuff can come across as narcissistic but it’s really my AuDHD and I get super embarrassed and feel terrible if I upset someone by my yammering on. I wish narcs didn’t exist because I think people would be nicer to me. 😂. We talk about ourselves because we don’t know any other way to relate. And god forbid a special interest comes up. Then there’s the forgetting everything in life every night so every morning is pent trying to recall what is happening and where I am and who do I know 😂
I filed for divorce, after 8 years together, despited it's so difficult to do so (trauma bond) But she plays superior: filing for marriage annulment at church, blaming, and demeaning me, as usually she used to do against her 7 past partners. Thanks, Lise! I stopped being blind!
Love your vids. Always well thought out, and produced. Watch them all, and always get a new insight. You are the sister we all needed growing up, to knock sense into us about out dealings with other people(we now know are narcs !), and may not have had. No idea why you do not have more subs or likes, to fairly reflect your great work
All negativity is a reflection of their emotional landscape #1..#2 is secondary gain to bolster their self esteem which is zero..it's arrogance..sheer arrogance and this routine setup makes any connection impossible..unless you become their assistant..all vertical guess who's in the bottom..us cause we are only viewed as their opponent..nothing more..ever..get off the eggshells and don't be shy you're just desert to them
Thank you for a wonderful summary that I could’ve used 30 years ago. Back then, when you found yourself in a relationship that didn’t make sense you were kind of on your own. Marriage counselors had absolutely no clue. You are doing a great thing making it simple to understand relationships that are baffling. So much wasted time in my life that could’ve been avoided- it’s not going to end well for you or the children, so get out early. Sorry, that’s how it goes.
Psychological studies show that narcissism is on the rise . And it’s promoted by mainstream media including advertising , sports , music , And narcissistic people are not willing to look at themselves. So is narcissism going to completely take over . Is there any solution?
dear god please change, go get reiki therapy energy healers whatever you can to change. It's so unbearably miserable to be around people like you. Heal your inner child please.
I accidentally smear and trianglulate and plant seeds of doubt. I blame extreme fear and autism and that I am authentically concerned with perceived threats. It does not make me feel big and I do desire everyone to be well. Intention, motive, and theatrics need to detected to discern the difference. I also expect people to articulate their problems well with authentic movements towards truth otherwise I do get peeved if they made me listen to whole deal that can't be solved bc they hid details. I'm aware people need to vent sometimes but when you ask advice its infuriating. I'd be wary of people who cry narcissist. Hypersensitive people and attn disregulated can misread situations sometimes. Sometimes they're oracles but can also dramatically misread as well. I have 2 narcissists in my family and 1 sibling that is an abusive petty monster if she feels slightly slighted. Likewise I can attribute everything this lady is saying to every ex date or partner that didnt end well. Can't say if they were narcissists or not but they sure acted like ones.
@@cassandratq9301 perhapse.. I think it is stress related. We are so quick to think 'its them' when we actually know it is childhood trauma manifesting its self. We need to solve this. It iscan epidemic.
Also, something I’ve noticed with some very covert narcissists is that they choose volunteer positions or careers that come with a lot of built-in praise and attention, so that they don’t have to do any of that themselves. They get to sit back and “act” super humble while people praise them. I think a lot of pastors and charity leaders and workers are this way. Some people on these positions just ooze narcissism and I’m not talking about them…I’m talking about a lot of the people that are well-liked and really fool people by their seemingly genuine humility and “good person-ness.” It’s very sneaky and they put on a good act. I almost think these people can cause more of a mind *uck than the more overt narcissists just because they seem like good people on the outside but the way they are making you feel is so bad. It’s the same with physical abuse that is so obvious vs. emotional abuse that can be harder to identify and so it’s easier to gaslight yourself by what you’re experiencing.
In my experience, my covert narcs often brag about other's accomplishments and try to take some credit for those happenings. Yes, they may have supported them in some area, but they try to take credit for how someone else's life turned out.These people are exhausting, and I have learned to cut them out quickly. This is why I do not wish to visit my almost 93 year old grandmother. The backhanded "compliments" and unsolicited advice were the worst. Thankfully I just got out of a work situation where my boss (who retired and I am stepping up into her position) taught me how I don't want to be in that position (my mil taught me the same thing). My former boss had plenty of people fooled (worked for the same agency for 41 years) and it was awful to work under her for the last 5 years. Additionally, I have a sil who claimed she was "empathic," but she only appeared that way to insert her own opinions or try to fix the situation. She also uses a particular health issue to do whatever she wants, even if it isn't wanted.
thank you!!! i have been in a eight year relationship with a woman. your video hit every point i have been dealing with. she got very mad at me today over nothing. now is my chance to let her go free!!! good riddance. now i can go on and enjoy my life.
I have a friend exactly like this. And I feel the way you have described after talking to her, most of the time, if not always. Thank you very much. Your video is most informative.
My mom is not a narcissist (she aligns more with BPD from the DSM5), but certainly has some covert narcissistic tendencies. A lot of her behaviors are not intentional or conscious, but in order for things to get better, you have to be straightforward and call it out when it's happening. In a normal situation, using "I statements" is sufficient, but with someone showing narcissistic tendencies, you have to be more direct and center them. Instead of "I feel ___ when you do ____", you have to say "you are doing ____. This may not be your intention, but this behavior is rude/inappropriate/unwarranted." That said, this approach has only been effective after asserting and maintaining boundaries within our relationship. She still can't so certain things, like be honest about WHEN she will arrive somewhere, but this behavior comes across as a fearful response. As though her being honest that a commute will take 3 hours instead of the 2 she had planned for, will somehow get her into trouble. And of course, sometimes this denial of reality is just arrogance (she knows better than the GPS). It's odd, but idk what else to do about it.
I had a family member who checked 9 out of 10 of these boxes. She was very superficialy charming, with some naive girly like features, eventhough she was middle aged. When I told her my grandmother from the other side had lost her child, she said; Well, what do you expect? Getting so old with that many children? And then directly on to talking about her supposed misery. And ofcourse nasty gossiping about other people. This is just an example. There were very many of these 'incidents' when I was in contact with her. She passed away and I went to her funeral. Not many people showed up... I guess a lot of people figured her out quickly.
Yes, they absolutely drain you. The number of times I heard, "I'm only telling you for your own good", usually after a bitchy remark. I'm hoping the saying, 'Karma never forgets an address' is true.
Word salad! He used to drive me crazy on the phone. I was so frustrated and drained… But once I knew who he was, I was sitting back and laughing! That’s why knowledge is so important!
99% of people I've met are self-centered. They like to talk about themselves and rarely show interest in others. It's so normal it can hardly be narcissism.
There's a huge difference, in my experience, to being self centered (which we can all be, and sometimes its even a good thing) and narcissistic personality disorder.
the one distinctive factor in determining an NPD in my experience is you have to walk on eggshells constantly around them and you just feel a darkness when they're around. A hollow empty sad soulless darkness that almost makes you sick. Once you realize this you will notice only a few people you know are actually full on narcs. The rest are just humans who have some flaws like the rest of us.
@@Joshneedsnature also i noticed coverts are terrible at confrontation face to face with other adults but will take it out on their kids after, and also don't stick up for their kids ever.
This is exactly something a narcissist would say. Gaslighting and dismissive as an automoticity with no real understanding, just a need to be right and important for such.
@@brendensangster3571 I haven't seen it like that so far, although the last person that I think might have been lacked empathy in a big way. It wasn't that she didn't care for her son, but everything was done from a very black and white and practical standpoint that didn't have any empathy. I haven't quite unpacked it all and formed complete thought and word around it. It was jarring, especially in hindsight. I don't honestly think she was trying to hurt anyone, it just seemed like her default was so self centered that she couldn't help it. I'm not a therapist, and it isn't my place to put a label on someone. It felt like a lot of trauma and lack of accountability though, to the extent of not seeming to care what the people close to them (aka me, her son, and friend group) were feeling about the actions she chose. It all seemed to be from a place of self preservation. It was really confusing.
They are not interested or capable of seeking middle ground in a difficult conversation. The very notion of middle ground will bring out a feeling of deep injustice because they are perfect and the problems they face in life are your fault. They will provide a never ending series of hoops to jump through to finally win them over; nothing will ever be enough.
- I tend to use “you” in generic terms and not specifically towards a person but got accused of unsolicited advice where the person lashed out at me quite aggressively. I tried to explain and stand up for myself but they started calling me names. - I get excited that someone shared a similar interest or wants to get to know me so I overshare and talk to much. Immediately after though I ask to know more about your experiences. I don’t mean to talk to much I just get excited. - I don’t like asking questions about peoples past because I feel like it’s invasive. I try let people open up and lead the conversation in how they want. I don’t have bad intentions and usually when confronted about something hurtful I did, I try to apologize without getting defensive. I guess this video is a bit triggering for me because I’ve been battling with some peoples projections for months. My night terrors have started to come back and I haven’t had them since childhood. These people manufactured an issue out of nowhere and now that I’m not backing down, it only reinforces their view point. I’ve asked to be left alone but they will do “nice” things (send gifts, cards, etc,) and when I don’t respond nicely or just sweep the issue under the rug, they smear me to other family.
Ok, most of the people that I deal with have most of these traits. I'm beginning to wonder if there's anyone left who can actually quiet themselves and focus long enough to listen to what you have to say. It's like this manic machine-gun fire of blather that never ends.
I’ll never forget when I was crying being vulnerable with him and he said this is how I like you when you can be this way with me 😭😭😭😭that’s when I knew it was time to get the hell out of there
10 signs you are talking to a covert narcissist
1-boasting by dropping hints
2-gossiping and bashing others to elevate themself
3-criticizing you under the guise of being honest
4-unsolicited advice that doesn't suit your situation
5-playing the victim in every story but never taking accountability
6-incredibly self-centred in conversation
7-selective listening and fake empathy
8-defensive, they take offence over any disagreements
9-long list of expectations and one-way boundaries
10-they will project their undesirable traits onto others
5 ways you will likely feel after leaving a conversation with a covert narcissist
1-anxious and uneasy
2-diminished and inferior
3-confused
4-frustrated
5-drained
cheers from southern ontario, canada 🍁
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Carparthero , thank you for write it down. ❤️
From Pekanbaru, Indonesia 🇮🇩
Thanks it helps to read and listen both really drives it home!
Yes drained
I always had a bad headache every time I spoke with my mom on the phone. Sometimes I would feel sick.
Now, I won't talk to her on the phone at all. We live in different states. I haven't seen her in years and don't plan on ever visiting her again.
I only respond to her texts using the fewest words possible and without giving her any information about me or my life. I never initiate communication. This has worked out well for me.
They listen to respond, not to comprehend
Then you get stuck in a cycle of over-explaining, which is only more fuel for the criticism and what not
@Loveisallyouneed77 You'd almost think we talked to the same person. Arguments until 4am. Whatever you say they bring something new to hit you with. And if you, out of desperation, try to show what your problem is in all this they instantly throw the "it's all about you" card.
She worked in healthcare. Every day there was the long story about all the things she did right and how the colleagues did everything wrong. Endless drama with friends and teaming up against one person of the group.
The trash talking is real indeed. How this and that is not "normal", but only your stuff while carefully hiding their own traces. And of course letting you know the reaction of their friends, how they wouldn't be able to stick around like she does. How your responses were non-appropriate, because they never heard hers.
Mom would wonder why I'd mention this or that (off gossip topic or something equally worthless) and I could only reply, "My brain must function".
I absolutely could not figure out the roundabout conversations saying they were complete tennis 🎾 matches finally after decades and learning about narcism I slapped my own face at his remarks showing him the pain they instilled. Our relationship better now he's onto giving/showing more respect and less stress with kids moved out and successes themselves but they're dumb! My daughter's mad at me as she'd moved out when still at uni prior to covid against my wishes, mentioning this they ganged up on me, thus proving he will go against me with anyone as I'd stated prior!
@@eliprenten7066 , I call it the 'corkscrew' conversation. When all else fails they'll even try to move the goalpost or change the context to something unrelated by latching onto a word or phrase that you use - and when that fails then you'll hear "it's always about you" so the conversation (that they turned into an argument) changes because we naturally start defending ourselves. 🤨
#11 From out of nowhere they give you the narcissistic smirk.
#12 You turn your head and catch them silently laughing at you.
😂😂 so accurate omg!!!
I have pictures that speak a thousand words. That caught him in action. Very telling.
It's worse than a horror movie for real!
#13 You tell them your happy news and they start talking to the dog
Yes!
They are weird!
Was married 9.5 years. A covert narcissist. Now divorced. Recovering still.
Have ZERO desire for relationships.
❤
Same here
Same
For me, that's the mental battle, to not let them ruin my future
Same here but beat you with 10 year marrige!
@@larrybeeler6660
Great point to remember
Circular conversation, that tends to lead nowhere. Totally one sided.. Yep, very frustrating...
you can barely even have a conversation with a narcissist
Here here 💯
A conversation is back and forth. There is not conversation with these losers
100% agreed. Very unbalanced & tiresome, especially when it's one of your own parents
All good ones. I would add that they don't let you have conversations with others. They will interrupt your conversation and literally make it about them.
Oh coverts can play the game very very well. They can definately give the illusion of having a convo with you.
I've dealt with many of these. The biggest one is the starting a conversation and then getting cut off midway through. I never got a chance to ever get my point of view or opinion across before it was always cut off
Even worse when they come back later to show how empathetic they are by "remembering" what you never said!
@@morebirdsandroses Or remembering exactly what you said, and condescendingly asking you to continue as if they hadn't just cut you off.
Or another thing I've encountered, is after being cut off they just keep going on and on until I lose interest in even continuing my thought. Because it's been several minutes and the topic has changed so many times that bringing it back up would be counterproductive to the conversation. So I kind of just stop talking all together. I lose interest in conversations because, even though I am guilty of only conversing in topics I wish to talk about, the conversation usually ends up one sided. Because I can actually have an intellectual conversation and my intelligence or knowledge of the subject they think they know more about would make them feel inferior.
This is why I don't generally like talking or engaging in conversations with people. Because they are usually shallow. And any attempts to add depth or knowledge or to teach something just gets shot down or deflected for something more shallow. Something that I can't add any feedback to. So they can control the conversation by not allowing me to add to it
What a crybaby😂
@user-jp1hs6sl3h You clearly value your opinion way above anyone else by your complaining. As if conversations don't change.
@@nova396 I've just never had someone who could Intelligently challenge my opinions to make me change them. That may be a bit of ego. But my ego doesn't drive my thoughts and actions.
It's very annoying to be talking intently about something you really enjoy talking about, only to be cut off and then left on read. While the conversation goes on to something entirely different. Anybody who has ever experienced it would know. But if you're the one who cuts people off because you don't want them to finish what they're saying, then you're the kind of person I don't enjoy talking to.
I won't deny that I am a bit high on myself. But I'm not so high that my head is in the clouds. That I can't see other people's perspectives. I am a very good listener. I hear every word people say and consider my responses. Just because you don't want to hear my response isn't my problem. That's why I get cut off so often. Because I can have more than just superficial conversations. Because I have a vast knowledge and understanding of many things others wouldn't think. Sometimes more than whoever is speaking.
And when you're dealing with people who don't see things the way I do. Only seeing themselves as superior. Having someone humble you as not being as superior as you thought really grinds THEIR ego to almost nothing. And when you're a person whose entire personality revolves around your ego, it makes you a bitter listener. Only wanting to hear yourself because you think you're right. And not wanting to hear anything someone else has to say because it challenges your own thoughts. Thoughts you thought were infallible.
These are the kinds of people I refer to in what I was saying. Not just people in general. Because people in general are open to opinions and knowledge. Narcissists don't like it because I challenge their superiority. Who are very close-minded about new ideas and thoughts. Believing themselves as "having all the knowledge without need for more." "They know all there is to know and don't need to learn or change their way of thinking."
It's those kinds of people who would actively seek to shoot down intelligent conversations because they lack the intellectual capacity to actually learn something new.
If it's not a conversation that puts them at the center of it, they would have no part of it. So they do whatever they can to put themselves at the center of it. Even cutting people off mid sentence so they can steer it back in their favor
My father was a covert narcissist and that comment about "You will leave a conversation with them feeling exhausted" hit me so hard. That was exactly it. He would just exhaust you every time.
Same here. It's like walking through the gates of hell.
How to differentiate harmless people with ADHD or autism from narcissistic people: it’s the vibe! A lot of traits are similar! It may be annoying, but Most neurodivergent people are very accepting and warm hearted, still, they can accidentally zone out, Info dump, talk about themselves to help others, miss social hints, forget what you just said, coming along as rude and self centered. But the vibe tells the difference. Yes, It can be draining to talk to a ND person in hyperfocus or zoned out, BUT you won’t feel anxious, humiliated, depressed afterwards! ND people are oftentimes the least judgemental person in the room!❤
Omgosh you just described me! She was going through the list and I was starting to question if I am a covert narcissist....but in truth, I hate gossip, I don't have any interest in controlling people or positions of authority or power, etc. But, I definitely zone out at times (I feel terrible about it), am very forgetful at times, dump a bunch of info...sometimes unsolicited, etc.
This can lead to stereotyping. ND people are people just like anyone else, they are not more or less warm hearted. I think checking for the overall vibe , as you said, in addition to spotting behaviors is good advice.
I don’t see any correlation between the two…
@@user-sz2iz8yh3i true, of course someone can feature both: ND and NPD! Unfortunate combination 🙈
The thing is... I've been learning a lot recently that ADHD/etc could be from ABUSE itself. Which is how narcs, etc are formed. I was ADHD and forced/drgged with ritalin at age 7. My abuse started very young, but my first?(maybe actually second) real trauma happened when I was 6 years old.
She went deep with this and every word of it is 100% true. 40+ confusing chaotic miserable years after a 19 year old young & dumb me married what I now know is a narc. Walk away and take any kids with you. A narc will never change and your life will never get better. Don't waste your youth or look back with regrets in old age. You deserve better. ❤
Wow, 39 years and 5 months for me. So many double standards. I am so tired from the lack of caring from her. I'm completely drained from all of the chaos that she continually creates; I just want it to end. I long for some peace and quiet, some calm in what little is left of my life. I wish I could go back and talk to the stupid, naive kid that I was all those years ago.
And I thought that 17 years was awful...
@@Nuculer9001
17 years is bad. You just had more willpower to get out sooner. That or you are a lot smarter than I was, which is more likely the case. Just pay attention to the red flags. Lord knows I wish I would have.
No matter what the case, I am glad you made it out of the darkness.
And if the detached narcissist you were married to saw this video they'd be calling you the narcissist. So then, what is the basis for these truth claims? How many people on here just wanted to be left alone to play video games in their fifties or act like children rather than become responsible adults? The water gets muddy. So, what is the standard?
@johnbautiste
For decades we have only heard about male narcissist, very rare talked about female narcissist. We all have narcissistic behaviour to some degree, but real narcissist are full of them self, and never cares about others, and only blame the other for there miserably being. Women narcissist are more covertly than men narcissist. I have encountered it in my family.
I guess you never encountered are real covert narcissist, if you did, you would understand how they overtime bit by wearing you down, with no remorse or regrets
A phone call w a covert narc: they suddenly are talking with someone else in the house about an unrelated subject while you are waiting to continue the original conversation. Which becomes far less important due to the interruption!
damnnn been there!!! It’s so annoying happens everytime.
Haha, I know, I’ve been on the receiving end of that one plenty of times! And sometimes she wouldn’t even just speak to someone else, she’d shout! Without of course moving the phone a little away from her mouth….it used to make me feel so unimportant and negligible….now it seems rather funny.
i’m chuckling out loud. I put the phone up in the air and count to 10 go down to the receiver to see if they’re still caring on the phone may go up again. It’s rather comical when my husband comes into the room and he knows who I’m talking with or whatever this is.
@@LPoppy2023 your mother id guess? :)
@@i.ehrenfest349 my mother?
The malignant narcissist I was involved with for eight years, his big schtick was triangulation. According to him, a constant stream of supposed exes were clamoring for him to return to them. Later, I found out the majority had never dated him, but some of the "exes" were from as far back as the THIRD GRADE! This guy was a party of one who tried to get me to believe he'd been with over 40 women. When I learned the truth, I couldn't believe I'd fallen for his BS for so long.
So once you found out no one was really after him, you didn't want him anymore either?
That's all they do is lie lie and lie some more ! Lucifer is the father of all lies !
@@darthnatas953omg. He was messing with her head, making her think she had all this competition and threats to their relationship
A malignant and covert aren't the same tho
I knew someone who was evidently a narcissist some years back. My mother had just died and I was telling her how I felt the local hospital had let her down.
This woman's response?
"Well, let me tell you what happened to me in that hospital." Not even an expression of sympathy. Just straight on to her and her issues.
Everybody else who knew her seemed to adore her, she was very well liked. it was incredible. It was as if I was the only person who could see through her.
There is only one way to deal with a narcissist. Identify them and withdraw your social contact from them. Isolate them. Leave them alone. Do not waste your time or attention on them. These people are not capable of change of improvement. They are unsaveable. They're parasites.
This is sometimes a way that people relate to others. It's not always that they're trying to make it about themselves. Though, I guess if you know the person well you would know the difference.
@@chaoswitch1974I agree. Sometimes someone’s story is SO relevant and poignant, the only way I can make clear how much empathy I have for them is to tell them a story of mine where I felt the same way for the same reasons…. In that way we bond more because we have a shared experience and understanding even though there are two different stories.
But yes, she only shared a snippet. The full picture may still be a narcissist. Though the last paragraph sounded so incredibly mean and intolerant. If she didn’t find empathy from that friend, just don’t hang with that friend anymore… no need for all those other words/tactics.
Rubbishing other people disguised as concern is the big give away for personality disorders, both narcissism and borderline.
A female lead I work with checks all of the boxes. She's really sneaky and good at lying and putting on an act. This video only confirms what I've been experiencing.
It's revolting
Sounds like my ex , she’s a lead at firehouse lol
Its a good that people are getting educated about narcissism.
But the problem is narcissism has become the most common accusation for people to use as a weapon against someone in an argument.
So narcissists will never admit to themselves that they are narcissistic.
Narcissism is the real zombie apocalypse
🧟♀️ 🧟♂️ 🥺🧟♂️ 🧟
And then accuse the accuser of projecting. 😖
Narcissism has always been a problem. We just have a specific word for it, that encompasses the lying, sneaky, batshit insane, mean-spirited, hypocritical drama queens.
We who are in the know can simply file away the information for self-protection instead of making the accusation.
My husband accused me of being unable to control my emotions. Years later, he told me that he couldn't hug me unless he felt like it. Narcissists calling other people narcissists is actually kind of convenient, as it's tattling on themselves with a word that can sum up multiple aspects of their craziness.
It's just important to know about projection and how it functions.
yup all boxes checked, and it only took me 45 years to figure it out! Thank you for shedding light on this subject!
At least you're radically (and humorously) honest about your inability to spot it. Cut yourself a LOT of lack though. Love, a sense of loyalty and gaslighting on their part would make even the most emotionally intelligent of us rethink EVERYTHING.
God bless you , i broke up with my narc after one year of hell
I must admit these footages kept me from going back to hell i was used to .
Anyways glad you are out of hell bro , it takes a big heart to get out of a toxic bonding ❤
Blame that cable news you still watch, that makes you also hate your kids, for the numbness and lack of deep probing insights.
@@jgannon1637narc alert
Only 45 years 😩🤣… I feel your pain . I got clued into what I was attracting ( narcissists ) over 10 years ago and I still attract them and get sucked in . I can’t seem to find normal partners . At this point I’m convinced I’m supposed to be with narcs as some form of a karmic lesson .
A big one not listed here is...Coverts can listen intently and make you can feel very heard and validated but they don't really care about you...they are only gathering data to use against you.
This is part of the honeymoon phase...you will forever be trying to get back to that connection that becomes a mere glimpse of it after they are done needing to get amo on you.
She nailed it! Feel uneasy, agitated after talking to narcissist probably because of the constant guilt trips
Thanks Lise, my ex narc girlfriend would actually often ask my advice but she would almost never take it. In fact she would often brag about how someone else gave her different advice and she would take that. She enjoyed making me feel insignificant that way. One of the weird things I noticed right away when we first met is she would ask me a lot of questions about myself like she was interested but it sounded clinical like she was checking off items on a list. Very strange. As far as empathy I cant tell you how many times she would tell me how empathetic she was. If someone is truly empathetic they never have to say so with words they let they’re actions speak for themselves. She was always talking about empathy but didn’t really have any, wow. Omg talk about double standards. She was the queen of double standards. It was perfectly okay for her to smile at another guy when we were together but god forbid I were to smile at another girl it would be a disaster. She also had guy friends but I wasn’t permitted to have any girls as friends. I told her many times that was a double standard and she never had a good response. So glad I dont have to deal with that stress any longer:)
I'm glad the relationship didn't become more serious (marriage). Smart move to end it! 😊
Yes so true
If she has guy 'friends' then she was cheating on you as well.
@@Henry1965ism, Right on! Those narcs ALWAYS have a secret life somewhere somehow and they have no qualms with humiliating their partners behind our backs.
What weirdos, mine would ask a question, I'd answer and he'll have the nerve to say he doesn't know... Hun? What's he bothering me for then, oh just to bother me, got it! 😊
My soon to be ex fits almost all of this. I feel like a fool for falling for her and ignoring the red flags.
Me too. 😕 It's like I can't trust my own judgement anymore.
@@samscarletta7433super relatable feeling ❤
Same here. I’m terrified of trying to navigate the dating scene because I can’t trust my own judgement. Just found out who I thought was a good friend had all the red flags but i completely overlooked them. Very frustrating to say the least.
Seems all of us who have dealt with these DEMONS and got out alive …now we all have no desire to date anyone
We were fooled ! Hurt
Dragged
Smeared
Replaced
Dragged again
It’s terrible
I wish for you all to heal and breathe easy and KNOW you are protected !!
We made it out alive n that’s not easy !!
Basically sums up the whole experience. Fell for it because the person claimed to be the victim of a narcissistic ex partner, but it took me a while to realize maybe they both were.
Exactly. I think quite a few people who are complaining about their narcissistic ex are actually the narc, themselves. Because one of the hallmarks of narcissism is having no self-insight, and projecting your own faults onto others. If a narc comes out of a bad relationship, would they ever say “well, I am a narcissist and treated my partner badly”, or would they say “my partner was a narc”?
Sometimes I read threads where mothers claim their children are narcissists. Now, that may be the case. But often I get a strong vibe about the mother, herself…saying things like the child is “ungrateful”, had “a perfect childhood” etc. You know?
The worst 3 years of my life dealing with a covert narc. I biggest thing i felt was embarrassment knowing i put up with the manipulation for so long, and once they had gotten their fill i was thrown in the garbage like a piece of trash... however now that im free i now know how strong i really am to get out in tact with my sanity.. years later im stronger than i ever was before building my life back again. One of the hardest lessons of my life, but also Im thankful for the lesson.. because i wouldnt be who i am today... the biggest revenge is happiness and moving on with your life
Two more signs you're dealing with a narcissist I would add is if you confront someone over their dishonesty or passive aggressive behavior and they respond by trying to gaslight you and say you're imaging it or you discover they tried to immediately escalate and preempt your concerns by triangulating with people in your common social circle by telling them a false narrative about the situation thats misleading and completely out of context to make you look bad.
⭐Triangulation is a big one.
Don't let them bring in other names when they are criticizing you. Tell them, "This conversation is between me and you. I don't want you to tell me what others are saying about me. Let's discuss things between us." Triangulation can cause a big mess and so much confusion. You won't really know if the narcissist is telling you the truth when they are relaying a message to you about what others are saying about you. Don't believe without proof. Actually, you can go to that person and ask for yourself. I believe much of the time they are lying.
👍Basically, you should use your gut instincts.
Even if you don't know everything that is going on, if you feel like something is wrong, it probably is. No need to really second guess yourself. You can try discussing it with the narcissist. If the narcissist begins their bad behavior, close your mouth and do what you will do, even if it is against their wishes. Nothing bad.
Some narcissists don't play fairly. If they are trying to take advantage of you, do things to protect yourself. Depending on the situation, shut everything down if you need to. Some narcissists can be predatory. They may try to be manipulative by giving you their sob story. In many cases, you may need to ignore it and keep a straight face.
Had a neighbor who (IDR the reason why) said ‘nobody likes you’. I’m thinking yeah, don’t you sound like you haven’t left 7th grade 🤨😂. I have a pretty good repartee with the neighbors, although some of them can be the ‘all about me’ type of convos.
I think the first neighbor was simply projecting her bad feelings onto me. Rather than waste time getting involved in her negative bid, I just ignored her. :P
Your observation about "feeling of exhaustion" after having a conversation with a narcissist was very enlightening. I just realized that maybe most introverts are introverts because most people who surround them are narcissists. If introverts were surrounded by empaths maybe they wouldn't be introverts.
My ex-girlfriend: 10/10 of these! Textbook covert narcissist. Had never had any experience dating a narcissist, and so being in my mid-40s I thought I had been around the block a bit. Boy, was I wrong! Two years on, I've gotten over it, but have no desire to date anyone.
At least you got out of that hell after only 2 years 👍
I think i read somewhere. In conversation. That if you speak in a complementary way about anyone. A narcissist will squirm in their seat. I have a covert narcissist in my life. She Is off the charts 😂 i can’t get away from her. So i just make sure i notice and point out other peoples good qualities in her presence it’s unbelievable. She hates me. 😁
I wish I knew all of this when I was growing up. Still, it's good to learn that I wasn't the problem.
I am SO thankful for number 5. If my ex hadn't accused me of being a narcissist, I probably would have never dove into the subject and done some research. I only wish Lise had been on youtube back then. Had to watch a bunch of less effective creators drone on and on... and even confuse me.
Lise has the best channel of all I have come across.
Agreed. Shrink 4 Men is probably the only other one also right up there for me.
Same happened here, she accused me n even sent CZcams shorts of how I one but I was too clouded in anger to connect the dots. Eventually I googled “why does my gf have 0 empathy” why won’t she speak to me etc n it came up n then it made sense why she sent me such vids, projection
Agree with everything you said! And I too was accused once and that’s what led me to look into the term. Had never even heard of it before that.
I watch videos like this, mainly to make sure I am not developing any of these narc traits. Second to avoid those with them.
Checking my self.
In the end I have to look in the mirror and be ok with who I see.
You always got you, good or bad.
It's not enough to just point a finger at a covert narcissist. I've come to realize just how much I have had a lot of these qualities. My mother had these qualities in spades. My older sisters all had/have the same qualities. My father was cold and abusive, so I learned little from them except how to behave like them. I have a long journey to undo this training. There's little sympathy for the bully. But remember that all bullies have had a bully in their life.
Great remark, Lucas.
I’m to some extent in the same boat as you. I feel very frustrated when dealing with them but I know they can’t help it. It makes a lot of people angry when I say that. They’re worried that understanding narcissists is enabling them. For me, it’s almost the contrary. Being angry with them is enabling them. It’s an intense and unhealthy form of engagement.
I see narcissism as a tragic coping mechanism, also tragic for the narcissist. A narcissist is a drowning person. Yes, they’ll pull you down with them, so don’t try to rescue them (unless from a big distance.) But they’re still people. I’m removing myself from my older sister’s life, currently, because contact is too damaging for me. But I see the tragedy of her life. Even if she doesn’t. (She has vetoed any talk of the past, of our nasty childhood especially.)
It’s from observing her that I’ve realised how much narcissism destroys. My sister doesn’t seem to feel able to relate on an equal plane with others. Always feels herself above others, and is therefore tragically alone. I’m not sure she has a genuine, deep bond with anybody. Even with pets she has a kind of weird relationship. She says she loves them (only since recent years btw) but cannot seem to truly relate to them. Hard to explain.
I’ll be working on myself for the rest of my life, like you. You know when I started to feel really free? When I no longer felt I had to be “right”. It’s kind of a knee jerk reaction our brain has. But now, when I’m in any sort of difficulty with someone else, I think “what did I contribute to this?” It’s counter-intuitive, for me, and it’s immensely freeing. (I’m not talking about assigning blame, of course. It might just be a realisation “well, I kept hanging around for the abuse, that’s understandable because I didn’t realize it was ok to walk away, but it might be better if I left this situation instead of hanging around.”)
It makes me live (more) without resentment. And resentment is the narcissist’s game.
I definitely have covert traits, but the more people disengage and ignore, the worse it gets. I can work on myself, be highly aware of how I am, but I see these traits creep in from my family members and I have to realize I’ve picked up poor behaviors from many people around me. My family has covert and grandiose traits and I think sometimes I end up the scape goat and it’s projected onto me. Then I feel victimized. My mother was very emotionally neglectful and it really damaged me. I have almost no relationship with her.
I worry that the narcissistic narrative is going too far in our society. I see how the narcissist is demonized and how they may be pushed into being even more terrorizing when they are likely surrounded by people with narcissistic traits themselves.
I have done a lot of therapy, I see myself clearly, but I don’t feel that anyone around me cares all that much to see me get better or feel better….everyone stays as self absorbed as they always have been. Then I wonder if I’m the one who is abnormally self absorbed or if I’m really assessing things correctly and when I say something, the projection starts.
I hear you about the enabling and how we fail to see the human behind the coping mechanism. It’s been hard for me to really buy into all the narratives about narcissists when I’m aware of my own and others pain. I get angry because no one seems to have compassion for my failings and hurts, they just tell me that I need to work on myself and abandon me in almost every way imaginable.
It’s really painful and very isolating. No amount of self awareness or self care moves the needle on my loneliness in the world.
I’m starting to believe that discussing narcissistic traits is demonizing people beyond repair or reproach; this is unfortunate and is causing a lot of damage in society.
@@lilamiranda33 Hi Lila,
I agree with you - the narcissist narrative has gotten out of control, it’s like the new witch hunt, a way to project all evil unto others and believe the rest of us are ‘good’. Very handy! I don’t want to think how many narcissists are out there talking on forums about their terrible, ‘ungrateful’ narcissistic children. (I see that a lot. The word ‘ungrateful’ when used for children is an immediate red flag to me.)
So, you’re worried about your own narcissistic traits. Well, almost everyone has some, so that’s a safe bet, anyway... If you were truly narcissistic, and even if you’re not, I’d recommend the channel HealNPD. This is a channel by dr Mark Ettensohn for narcissistic people. Not for malignant narcs, I’m sure. He explains, with compassion, what it’s all about, and it helps me to understand what is going on with my family members and also with myself. (Up to a point - I’m not a narcissist, although I’m sure I have traits.)
Another great channel (along with the present one, of course) is Crappy Childhood Fairy. You’ll love it. It’s not about narcissism but about the thing I’ve been diagnosed with, and you may have going on, too: cPTSD. Anna explains so well what happens to people who grow up in dysfunctional families, and what I really like is that she doesn’t just talk about what has been done to us but also about our own resultant dysfunctional behaviours. I kind of feel myself calming down (from the pretty much constant anxiety) when I listen to her, because things start to make sense.
She says that loneliness is probably the number one result from cPTSD. It’s ingrained in us because of our background.
I know that I’ve had to get a lot of therapy, when I was young, to be able to connect to people. I do it very easily, now, though I still feel that core loneliness and probably always will. But I shudder to think where I’d be without the therapy.
You say people abandon you and tell you to work on yourself. Now, Anna has much better insights on these things than I do, so be sure to check her out - I’m just rambling along, here, and wonder if the people that tell you to work on yourself are your disordered family members? Because that is par for the course, they always tell you what’s wrong with you and that you need therapy. It’s never their issue, not even partly. My deeply disordered aunt, that I lived with, was forever telling partners, relatives and friends that they needed therapy. Never set foot inside a therapy office, herself. Meanwhile she’s physically abusing me and her boyfriend on an almost daily basis. Funny, when you come to think of it!
On the other hand you may have some dysfunctional behaviours, yourself. Well, almost certainly, because that’s what cPTSD does. And it’s possible that people abandon you because of that. That used to happen to me when I was young - I didn’t realize how I turned people off. Just like my sister still doesn’t realize how she drives a wedge between herself and her loved ones. Probably never will, because I believe she is narcissistic and she’s unable to see her own pain and her own shortcomings.
I hope you’ll work on yourself, but not because other people tell you to. It’s immensely freeing to discover what a pain in the ass you can be, and to become less uptight about it and smile about it if possible. Which won’t, incidentally, be possible around your disordered relatives because they’ll be shaming you for your shortcomings, and using them as a weapon. If they truly are narcissistic, you’re unlikely to ever get the warmth and acknowledgment from them that you crave. Absorbing that loss and accepting things for how they are is a necessary step. Another aunt of mine was in her sixties when she still tried to get validation from her mother. That’s because so often it looks like it’s close! You can almost touch it! But it will never, ever be there. I don’t see how one can get healthy without mourning that loss and moving on.
Well, etc. I hope you check out Crappy Childhood Fairy. If you do, let me know what you think!
@@lilamiranda33the reality is everyone has narcissistic tendencies and will be self involved, so rather than worry about the peopl3 who can't be there for you (presumably to protect themselves, from certain triggers or behaviors) just keep pouring the compassion into yourself. As your cup starts to fill, relationships will start to grow more naturally, with people that are compatible. You are not your behaviors and you deserve compassion. I wish you well❤
@lilamiranda33 There's a statistic about how many abusers change. The number is less than 5%. I've never heard a better rate for Narcissists.
Furthermore, you are responsible for you. When you mistreat people, that's on you. It's your fault you mistreat people. When I get impatient with the kids because that's what my mother taught me, that's on me, I did that. What my mother did to me is on her, not me.
So I'm really unsympathetic with your pity party. You seem to be blaming your family for making you that way and complaining that people have low expectations for you. If you're going to shrug and say your family made you that way, that's why people have low expectations. You make sure you don't mistreat people. If you don't know how you should treat people, go learn. Study positive, healthy people. Read "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. Come up with game plans on how to solve an argument with being toxic.
If you're going to therapy to change the people around you, you're wasting your time. You're complaining that you've been going to therapy, but the people around you are the same. Of course they are. Therapy doesn't work on people who aren't with the therapist. Therapy doesn't even work on people with the therapist unless they do some painful, serious work. Your focus in therapy should be about changing yourself and how you interact with the world.
You say people abandon you. Not discussing Narcissism isn't going to fix that. If they ditch you, it's likely because they themselves are toxic, they don't understand the value of committment, or you're mistreating them. If they ditch you because of the first two reasons, there's nothing you can do about it. Refocus your energy. If you're mistreating them, stop it. Nobody has a right to mistreat anyone, no matter the pain.
The Narcissist narrative is not responsible for making Narcissists worse. Narcissists behave badly because they choose to. Unless someone is literally holding you hostage, your actions are your own. Your family's actions are their own. You're literally contradicting yourself. You complained about the low expectation that Narcissists can't change and you've insinuated that people can't help it when they mistreat people. So which is it? Can a Narcissist choose the right thing and change or are they hopeless cases and victims of circumstance?
You're complaining about your enviroment. Fix it. If it's that toxic to you, get a new one. I did. It took years, but I did. You can work towards that, too. Furthermore, even in a toxic enviroment, I still endeavoured to choose the right thing. I didn't allow myself to hurt people. It's not that I never did, it's that I took responsibility when I did and recognized it was my fault and fixed it as best I could. Being in pain is no excuse.
Either you can change despite your circumstances, or low expectations are justified. Your pain can't be fixed through external means.
Narcissists don't have the worst pain, they have the most toxic, unacceptable coping mechanisms. They need to stop it.
So aside from literal hostage crimes, nobody makes anybody do anything. If I can choose to be kind to people, despite being around a Narcissist, you can to.
My parents are 76 and 78. My mother is a covert narcissist and my father a grandiose narcissist. Sadly it only gets worse with time.
I've watched approximately 300 hours of CZcams videos on narcissism, but when I watch your videos, I feel like you are writing my diary.
A lot of people on here saying how most people these days seem to be narcissistic in some way and they do have a point. However, I would say that a tell-tale sign you've been dealing with the real thing is just how drained, exhausted and depressed they leave you feeling. In my own life, an ex from the past got hold of me on Linkedin. It didn't take long before even her casual catch-up messages included elements of all 10 of Lize's points. The things that really sood out were the fake flattery, the victimhood, the sob stories and the overly emotional and boundary-violating nature of her questions about my own life. It's been a sobering and eye-opening reminder of why I broke up with her in the first place (and thought her a narcissist at the time) and also of just how much I value my peaceful, single existence 😂. But back to my original point, she's super-draining - in a way that more normal people just aren't. I'll be fine by the way (grey rock specialist! 😂👍).
In my experience with my mother-in-law, the only solution was to stay away. There is no other solution. Any communication, regardless of whether it includes some manipulation
I agree..I don't do male competive friends either
Same thing here.
When you are in their presence after periods of no contact their behaviour is amplified which validates your decision.
It's validating and empowering....time apart does heal ❤💔❤️
DIL’s are narcissist too, I stay away from her
@@casperinsight3524 yes absolutely right Because they are outside your inner world, which creates mystery in them, and this is terrifying for them
I lived all of this. It exhausts me just remembering it. I wish interactions like this on no one. I am hopeful that your videos prevent someone else from entering into a relationship like this. Nice work.
My step mother in-law is a lower mid-range narc, per HG Tudor. Full no contact now for over a year and it feels great! She is a truly sick, cold, mean, cruel, and empty person. We try to see my father in-law when she’s not around, she’s a very difficult person to be around but she projects that onto everyone else. I’m calm and mind my own business, but I seem to be the problem in her eyes… she is perfect! She knows everything! She’s even convinced her husband that he knows nothing and he must rely on her at all times. Stay away from these people, they’ll make you sick.
So, the ‘covert bragging’ is one variation, but the guy that comes immediately to my mind when I hear the words ‘covert narcissist’ didn’t really brag about himself, he kind of ‘bragged’ about how badly life had treated him and how everyone was unkind to him, how everyone tried to take advantage of him. His own failures (alcoholism was one, he’d been fired from his job for showing up drunk in the morning) were also something he was bitter about. And the fault of his girlfriend, because she had made him drink.
I think I’d have found him easier to be around if he’d been truly bragging rather than spreading a kind of misery that you somehow ended up feeling guilty for. I’m not expressing this very clearly… he was as it were reverse bragging. He bitterly mentioned that he was unattractive and would say things like “stop talking about the beautiful people!” It was as if he took a grim pleasure in the way things had gone against him, in his own lack of success etc.
He was singularly unpleasant to be with.
Oh, I remember an incident where he had to give a lecture and said he was nervous about it. His girlfriend said: “you’re very good at this, I know you’ll do well!” He looked at her contemptuously and said ”yeah well, that YOU think so doesn’t mean anything.”
When I told him I had a next appointment and had to go he wrote to me later (hand delivered in my mail box) that he’d looked up the bar where I supposedly had a meeting and it didn’t exist.
I wrote back saying it did exist (it did, of course) because I didn’t know yet that the only appropriate answer to that sort of accusation is “ok.” No explanations, no defense.
I wrote this at length because he was a fascinating character, really. Though not one you wanted to hang out with. Such a draining personality.
I've met this person you describe here! No matter what you do or how hard you try to set things right the goal posts will move. The secret agent mode when you tell him you have to go to a meeting is also something I experienced. It's creepy stalkerish.
I didn't even know what narcissistic meant. Until my ex accused me of being one. After reading up on it and after some self doubt and some weeks of questioning myself, I realised that it was her that was the narcissist.
She was also doing things that she claimed that she hated in people.
It was abuse from day one. I often wonder whether any part of her really loved me at all at anytime.
I used to feel so lucky like I'd won the lottery numbers when I first got together with her. She used to often say to me that she could have anyone but that she CHOSE me. Someone told me that it was her that hit the jackpot with me and that she was like a lottery winner that didn't know what to do with the money and would blame others for losing it.
She also used to say how all her exes cheated on her. How she was treated so badly etc... I realised that with all her failed relationships...she was the common denominator.
She hurt me deeply numerous times and I'd literally break down in tears sometimes when she was right there in front of me. She barely even flinched. She didn't even care that she hurt my feelings. She would almost just look blankly.
It ended a few months ago but I also think it's going to take another few months for me to get back to myself.
Yes, the blank look!
Take your time and be aware of what you now know. It's a lot to take in!
So true brother
Let me share with this community. When I finally realised I was dealing with my second wife, a narcissist (I know, it's my fault. My pattern of behaviour), I filed for divorce, after 8 years together, despited it's so difficult to do so (trauma bond) But she plays superior: filing for marriage annulment at church, blaming, and demeaning me, as usually she used to do against her 7 past partners. Thanks, Lise! I stopped being blind!
Ahh, the Religion thing. Me too.. My daughter was heartbroken. . We were married for two years before she was born but it was the Annulment thing, felt denied and "illegitimate" in the eyes of God.
Marriage annulment that's pretty funny, I went for justice of the peace myself, cheap fast no ring no dress 1 night honeymoon and still he complained, popped out 2 kids one after the other at his demand, even signed pre-nup moved against my wishes, I'd lived there ate teen yrs, we were neighbours.... Never worked again, might as well give him something worth complaining about 😊 ❤!
Religious narcs are literally the worst
“I just want to feel happy/good” … at what point did my feeling good/happiness get in the way of yours
Just ended a friendship with a covert narc. Ticks every single box including the last one. When I told him the friendship was over, he told me I had a narc/bpd personality disorder and he was "glad he hadn't fallen for it" 🤣🤣🤣
Your name sounds Dutch….if you are, I think we may have known the same guy :)
@@i.ehrenfest349 Really? Has he been complaining about me?
@@annebos4634 ha, no, I’m just joking, he does sound like a guy I know.
Yes now that narcs are being exposed, they are doing what narcs do best: flipping the script back onto the victim.
The person I like is 100% identical to every point; incredible how identical she is to all 10 of these points. I'll keep my eyes open for someone better
I have watched MANY narc videos, and this one is thr best, by far. Thank you!
I've been hestitating to click on this topic of discussion cuz I saw the words covert narcissist in a video title months ago and immediately identified this lady that I don't like at work is a covert narcissist and then immediately identified that I knew that because I also was. And I definitely am and I really hope I can curtail it. It's certainly more helpful than actually engaging with her as a rival, and hopefully I can learn to listen to others.
I believe that everyone has at least one narcissistic tendency. I know that I do just because it was presented to me. But a tendency here or there doesn't mean the actual NPD. Especially if you are aware and want to make changes. Narcissists are deliberate, unapologetically so. And it normally will be based on a "wrong" or perceived "wrongs" done to them that they hang on to.
This channel is one of my TOP 2 favorite CZcams channels on Narcissism which I watch everyday to stay sane and not fall into a deep depression.
Thank you 🙏🏻
Stay healthy and strong 💪, keep your energy for yourself, I wish you the very best but you're already there with yourself in your life, rock on!
@@joseenoel8093Thank you so much 🙏🏻 ❤
Thanks Lise - you’re so right on all accounts! Wish I had seen this video before I got in a relationship with a covert narcissist. Took me 10 years to figure out what the heck was going on and now I just live with it. Be careful out there everyone - especially if you’re kind and sweet and empathetic!
Wow, this describes my family members perfectly!!! There is no way to have a discussion with them to resolve anything, they do not want to resolve they want to win.
I got played by a narcissist for two years. I turned the tables and figuratively tore her to shreds. Outta my life forever.
And I hope I don’t sound like a narcissist for celebrating my win.
The area where we live oozes with narcissism.
My husband & I are in our 70s.
The last narcs we finally got rid of was a week ago, a Christian family trying to buy our property. It was their dream home & thru prayer God told them they should pay $300k. (Mkt/list price is $650k).
They breached the contract & backed out on a gamble we would come down to their offer. It backfired & then came the abuse. This one lasted a month.
Before that, one year ago, a Christian family bought the property next to us. They offered us $100k cash, twice for our property. We refused. The bullying began. We ignored & refused to engage regardless of their despicable tactics to break us.
Once rid of them, another slithers in. They’re exhausting soul sucking parasites.
You cannot educate yourselves enough; for us we’ve been educating ourselves for 3 years.
With each, we get better at spotting them. We’re in hopes of getting the time reduced to one conversation lol
I appreciate the early caveat here that narcissism comes on a spectrum, like many things. You can be a bit narcissistic or overwhelmingly, constantly selfish.
I say this because i recognize conversational traits i, and others close to me, often display. That is the interruption or immediate rejoinder of, "Oh wow! That happened to me, too! I know exactly what you mean... okay, this was about 15 years ago, when i... i... i..." etc. Most people do this pretending, or believing, that they are showing solidarity with the original speaker, relating how understandable their situation is, etc.; acknowledging that the topic resonates with them. A close friend of mine who does this, like other people i've known, defends it as needing to say their part because their memory is getting bad and if they don't blurt things out the instant they think of them, they'll forget them, and they really think their contribution will enrich the conversation.
So you see, i am doing this right now, and so is almost every other commenter: Saying Yes, yes, listen to how it happened to me, or to the narcissists I've known!
How do we know, then, when the behavior is actually anti-social, self-aggrandizing BS, and when it is merely enthusiastic participation in a two-sided conversation? I think it's how it goes when you call them on it; when you say something such as, "I'm sorry, can you please let me get my story out without interrupting; this just happened and it's important to me that you hear it,"-- the reply from the possible narcissist can be either something like, "Omigosh, yes, i'm sorry, please carry on..." (even if perhaps making a mental note to share their own story later, much later); or it can be what Lise here mentioned, the accusation of you yourself being a selfish narcissist, and the turning of the discussion of any topic into an ad hominem argument. (Now here i go with my "I" story: This happened a lot in my last relationship. We would be talking about some topic that had absolutely nothing to do with my or his psychology or morality or emotional health. Let's say, about flea medicine for the cat. I would suggest it was time for more; he would assert that he thought the cat was fine, that it had only been 3 weeks, or whatever. But to solve the disagreement, instead of turning to something such as "Let's check the calendar to see when it was last given," it would be, "You ALWAYS want to give too much. What is that about you? You just like playing doctor?" And then, even worse, a turn further away from the topic at hand and into relationship competition: "And how come you always disagree with me?" etc.)
Anyway, i appreciate the video. Very recognizable and common personality type!
I live in the same house with a person who's like this...it's beyond draining! 🙄
1:56 - #2 is the biggest clue that their shit-talking is eventually coming for you! The way they gossip about others- and as she points out - strangers in a nasty way that's uncalled for, there's a first sign of a brief mask slip.
I have a cluster of some of these traits, especially asking for opinions to create an opening for myself. But it varies, and I'm not uninterested in what other people have to say, especially not when I'm reflecting about it afterwards in solitude.
When I was a kid I had trouble to express myself (lack of verbal fluidity and self confidence), so I often sounded dumb even though I'm quite smart. It was so frustrating. I'm still struggling subconsciously with the memories of these events (even though my ability to express myself today is much better), which makes me overprove myself. But I'm trying to make the people around me aware of it so that they ignore it.
I think it's normal to seek validation. What distinguishes the narcissist in my opinion is their need to diminish others and their utter indifference to the suffering they inflict.
All these videos are great in a number of ways, but they are always about someone else. The person opposite us. It's important that we look at ourselves as well. I show at least a couple of these traits as do a number of people I know. At the same time I'm able to feel and show empathy.
I have a friend who's very self centred, outwardly confident, inwardly insecure, shows a number of these traits to the extremes. He also has a big heart and is very capable of thinking about others and acting on it.
We are all complexe and capable of good and bad behaviours.
Agreed, we all are complex and there's a bit of Narc in all of us.. The biggest clue is the real Narc is totally disinterested in your life, especially the happy things. They also will not be there if others are ill.
Totally agreed.
We may be capable of bad behaviour but really what bad things do we do which follow patterns and hurt other people consistently? We don't have disorders because we swear when we get a parking ticket.
@@Calidore1 Well, there’s the danger. Of dividing people in two groups - the disordered, who are ‘bad’, and we who are good. We’re ‘empaths’! So we never have to look too critically at ourselves.
Most people have narcissistic tendencies, even if we don’t have the full blown personality disorder. I agree with Philip completely, we have to look at ourselves, too. Putting the badness all in others is a way to stay stuck, and get complacent.
I think 100% of these covert narcissist have a PhD in acting it truly is spectacular for no other word. The performances that they decide to present. I wish I had picked it up years and years ago, but I have now and I’m coming to terms with it but geez, it’s taking so much work and the hours- therapy understanding the dynamics of it all
I recently came across your channel and I feel that you "get" all the behaviours better than anyone educating on these subjects. You give real examples which helps the understanding.
Brilliant commentary on Narcissists.
The only symptom/observation not mentioned was them calling everyone else Narcissists before returning to the topic of themselves.
One of my favorite things to do is get 2 together in a social environment and leave them while they bloviate.
It takes them a little while to realize I've left. They were too busy talking about their own great moments and achievements.
My ex used to slam her fists and get super angry when she didnt get her way. Sad we had a child together(although i always love my daughter, she is so special), I am forever tied to her as she dragged me to child maintenance court (while I was unemployed, and close to the court date she moved 1200km away with my child), even after i paid for all the financials 75% of the time. I was so depressed I had a drug addiction; only after seeing a licensed therapist, did all this behavior make sense. She also had her mom side against me. Im not perfect, my pshyc told me I draw broken people to me, and it is so true.
thank you, I started listening to videos about narcissism about 8 months ago. was with a person for 10 years, it all finally clicked. although I could never quite pin point when I was with him. I drank alcohol to keep these feelings down and did not know it. my own body was sick and tired of the games and it took my mind a long time to catch up. after 10 years he discarded me because of the way I was "always acting and I would never change, or be better, or why can't I just be like I was in the beginning. such manipulation.
I just broke up with one. Made everything, including my birthday about her.
I find it amazing that you have never met her, yet you know her so well. 30 years in and thanks to you, I now know her too. So much damage has been done. I am but a shadow of my former self.
Beware of these wolves in sheep's clothing.
Great video thank you for sharing Lisa 😋
I met this specific person at work I just started 3 weeks ago. Exactly like Lise described. This person is like a energy vampire. Today I quit my job because of this person. 😂. I feel good. Mentally & physically.
Do not talk to them. Run for the hills and keep on going.
I’m married to a narc but I always start to panic that I’m a narc when I hear some of the initial symptoms, but then I remember that I’m AuDHD and I’m not faking or pretending and that’s the big difference. I might not notice I’m annoying someone and I have learned that the verbal stuff can come across as narcissistic but it’s really my AuDHD and I get super embarrassed and feel terrible if I upset someone by my yammering on. I wish narcs didn’t exist because I think people would be nicer to me. 😂. We talk about ourselves because we don’t know any other way to relate. And god forbid a special interest comes up. Then there’s the forgetting everything in life every night so every morning is pent trying to recall what is happening and where I am and who do I know 😂
100% This is a very helpful list of what I experience with several of my family members. Thanks for validating my experience.
I filed for divorce, after 8 years together, despited it's so difficult to do so (trauma bond) But she plays superior: filing for marriage annulment at church, blaming, and demeaning me, as usually she used to do against her 7 past partners. Thanks, Lise! I stopped being blind!
there does seem to be self obsession and victimhood but also self sabotage - rejecting opportunities probably because of low self worth
Excellent and on point. This is a wake up call.
Love your vids. Always well thought out, and produced. Watch them all, and always get a new insight. You are the sister we all needed growing up, to knock sense into us about out dealings with other people(we now know are narcs !), and may not have had. No idea why you do not have more subs or likes, to fairly reflect your great work
All negativity is a reflection of their emotional landscape #1..#2 is secondary gain to bolster their self esteem which is zero..it's arrogance..sheer arrogance and this routine setup makes any connection impossible..unless you become their assistant..all vertical guess who's in the bottom..us cause we are only viewed as their opponent..nothing more..ever..get off the eggshells and don't be shy you're just desert to them
Thank you for a wonderful summary that I could’ve used 30 years ago. Back then, when you found yourself in a relationship that didn’t make sense you were kind of on your own. Marriage counselors had absolutely no clue. You are doing a great thing making it simple to understand relationships that are baffling. So much wasted time in my life that could’ve been avoided- it’s not going to end well for you or the children, so get out early. Sorry, that’s how it goes.
"Humble bragging" and complaining about their good fortune.
Thats why relationships that get entangled before you can see if their actions match their words usually don’t end well. Take your time.
Psychological studies show that narcissism is on the rise .
And it’s promoted by mainstream media including advertising , sports , music ,
And narcissistic people are not willing to look at themselves.
So is narcissism going to completely take over . Is there any solution?
Nope, this is all part of the grand design of the powers that be. All they care about is misery and creating hell on earth, imo
Creating divisiveness, smh
Social media elevates narcissism to a whole new level. That seems to be why it is so prevalent now.
@@user-du5gr8pe9w I think that's true. Narcissists have always existed but social media has normalized it.
Thank you.
I really love your art piece behind you too. ✨
Wow! This was spot on. Your description at the end is exactly how I feel after dealing with a covert narcissist in my life . Bravo!🎉❤
Actually my covert never says anything. He just sits disconnect then.
I am CN I was not diagnosed but this is it
dear god please change, go get reiki therapy energy healers whatever you can to change. It's so unbearably miserable to be around people like you. Heal your inner child please.
I accidentally smear and trianglulate and plant seeds of doubt. I blame extreme fear and autism and that I am authentically concerned with perceived threats. It does not make me feel big and I do desire everyone to be well. Intention, motive, and theatrics need to detected to discern the difference. I also expect people to articulate their problems well with authentic movements towards truth otherwise I do get peeved if they made me listen to whole deal that can't be solved bc they hid details. I'm aware people need to vent sometimes but when you ask advice its infuriating. I'd be wary of people who cry narcissist. Hypersensitive people and attn disregulated can misread situations sometimes. Sometimes they're oracles but can also dramatically misread as well. I have 2 narcissists in my family and 1 sibling that is an abusive petty monster if she feels slightly slighted. Likewise I can attribute everything this lady is saying to every ex date or partner that didnt end well. Can't say if they were narcissists or not but they sure acted like ones.
A lot of these overlap with ASD and ADHD symptoms for very different reasons.
I saw that to. I have add. So i did see the common thread.
I know someone who is covert during the day, but as soon as they drink, they become antagonistic. Hurts a lot.
The "drunk" them is the real them.
@@cassandratq9301 perhapse.. I think it is stress related. We are so quick to think 'its them' when we actually know it is childhood trauma manifesting its self. We need to solve this. It iscan epidemic.
Also, something I’ve noticed with some very covert narcissists is that they choose volunteer positions or careers that come with a lot of built-in praise and attention, so that they don’t have to do any of that themselves. They get to sit back and “act” super humble while people praise them. I think a lot of pastors and charity leaders and workers are this way. Some people on these positions just ooze narcissism and I’m not talking about them…I’m talking about a lot of the people that are well-liked and really fool people by their seemingly genuine humility and “good person-ness.”
It’s very sneaky and they put on a good act. I almost think these people can cause more of a mind *uck than the more overt narcissists just because they seem like good people on the outside but the way they are making you feel is so bad.
It’s the same with physical abuse that is so obvious vs. emotional abuse that can be harder to identify and so it’s easier to gaslight yourself by what you’re experiencing.
fantastic video, i believe most narcs are covert or passive on a spectrum and same for their complementing enablers :(
In my experience, my covert narcs often brag about other's accomplishments and try to take some credit for those happenings. Yes, they may have supported them in some area, but they try to take credit for how someone else's life turned out.These people are exhausting, and I have learned to cut them out quickly. This is why I do not wish to visit my almost 93 year old grandmother. The backhanded "compliments" and unsolicited advice were the worst. Thankfully I just got out of a work situation where my boss (who retired and I am stepping up into her position) taught me how I don't want to be in that position (my mil taught me the same thing). My former boss had plenty of people fooled (worked for the same agency for 41 years) and it was awful to work under her for the last 5 years. Additionally, I have a sil who claimed she was "empathic," but she only appeared that way to insert her own opinions or try to fix the situation. She also uses a particular health issue to do whatever she wants, even if it isn't wanted.
thank you!!! i have been in a eight year relationship with a woman. your video hit every point i have been dealing with. she got very mad at me today over nothing. now is my chance to let her go free!!! good riddance. now i can go on and enjoy my life.
I have a friend exactly like this. And I feel the way you have described after talking to her, most of the time, if not always. Thank you very much. Your video is most informative.
My mom is not a narcissist (she aligns more with BPD from the DSM5), but certainly has some covert narcissistic tendencies. A lot of her behaviors are not intentional or conscious, but in order for things to get better, you have to be straightforward and call it out when it's happening.
In a normal situation, using "I statements" is sufficient, but with someone showing narcissistic tendencies, you have to be more direct and center them. Instead of "I feel ___ when you do ____", you have to say "you are doing ____. This may not be your intention, but this behavior is rude/inappropriate/unwarranted."
That said, this approach has only been effective after asserting and maintaining boundaries within our relationship. She still can't so certain things, like be honest about WHEN she will arrive somewhere, but this behavior comes across as a fearful response. As though her being honest that a commute will take 3 hours instead of the 2 she had planned for, will somehow get her into trouble. And of course, sometimes this denial of reality is just arrogance (she knows better than the GPS). It's odd, but idk what else to do about it.
I had a family member who checked 9 out of 10 of these boxes. She was very superficialy charming, with some naive girly like features, eventhough she was middle aged.
When I told her my grandmother from the other side had lost her child, she said; Well, what do you expect? Getting so old with that many children? And then directly on to talking about her supposed misery. And ofcourse nasty gossiping about other people.
This is just an example. There were very many of these 'incidents' when I was in contact with her.
She passed away and I went to her funeral. Not many people showed up... I guess a lot of people figured her out quickly.
Yes, they absolutely drain you. The number of times I heard, "I'm only telling you for your own good", usually after a bitchy remark. I'm hoping the saying, 'Karma never forgets an address' is true.
Word salad!
He used to drive me crazy on the phone. I was so frustrated and drained…
But once I knew who he was, I was sitting back and laughing!
That’s why knowledge is so important!
99% of people I've met are self-centered. They like to talk about themselves and rarely show interest in others. It's so normal it can hardly be narcissism.
There's a huge difference, in my experience, to being self centered (which we can all be, and sometimes its even a good thing) and narcissistic personality disorder.
the one distinctive factor in determining an NPD in my experience is you have to walk on eggshells constantly around them and you just feel a darkness when they're around. A hollow empty sad soulless darkness that almost makes you sick. Once you realize this you will notice only a few people you know are actually full on narcs. The rest are just humans who have some flaws like the rest of us.
@@Joshneedsnature also i noticed coverts are terrible at confrontation face to face with other adults but will take it out on their kids after, and also don't stick up for their kids ever.
This is exactly something a narcissist would say. Gaslighting and dismissive as an automoticity with no real understanding, just a need to be right and important for such.
@@brendensangster3571 I haven't seen it like that so far, although the last person that I think might have been lacked empathy in a big way. It wasn't that she didn't care for her son, but everything was done from a very black and white and practical standpoint that didn't have any empathy. I haven't quite unpacked it all and formed complete thought and word around it. It was jarring, especially in hindsight. I don't honestly think she was trying to hurt anyone, it just seemed like her default was so self centered that she couldn't help it. I'm not a therapist, and it isn't my place to put a label on someone. It felt like a lot of trauma and lack of accountability though, to the extent of not seeming to care what the people close to them (aka me, her son, and friend group) were feeling about the actions she chose. It all seemed to be from a place of self preservation. It was really confusing.
They are not interested or capable of seeking middle ground in a difficult conversation. The very notion of middle ground will bring out a feeling of deep injustice because they are perfect and the problems they face in life are your fault. They will provide a never ending series of hoops to jump through to finally win them over; nothing will ever be enough.
You describe my brother perfectly
- I tend to use “you” in generic terms and not specifically towards a person but got accused of unsolicited advice where the person lashed out at me quite aggressively. I tried to explain and stand up for myself but they started calling me names.
- I get excited that someone shared a similar interest or wants to get to know me so I overshare and talk to much. Immediately after though I ask to know more about your experiences. I don’t mean to talk to much I just get excited.
- I don’t like asking questions about peoples past because I feel like it’s invasive. I try let people open up and lead the conversation in how they want.
I don’t have bad intentions and usually when confronted about something hurtful I did, I try to apologize without getting defensive.
I guess this video is a bit triggering for me because I’ve been battling with some peoples projections for months. My night terrors have started to come back and I haven’t had them since childhood. These people manufactured an issue out of nowhere and now that I’m not backing down, it only reinforces their view point.
I’ve asked to be left alone but they will do “nice” things (send gifts, cards, etc,) and when I don’t respond nicely or just sweep the issue under the rug, they smear me to other family.
All of this is classic narcissist behavior.
@@cassandratq9301 are you talking about me?
@@cassandratq9301 are you referring to me? Or them?
Ok, most of the people that I deal with have most of these traits. I'm beginning to wonder if there's anyone left who can actually quiet themselves and focus long enough to listen to what you have to say. It's like this manic machine-gun fire of blather that never ends.
I’ll never forget when I was crying being vulnerable with him and he said this is how I like you when you can be this way with me 😭😭😭😭that’s when I knew it was time to get the hell out of there