Longsword techniques: zornhau, oben abnehmen, duplieren, mutieren
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2009
- Warning: the volume is too loud now.
A little bit outdated Zornhau and associated techniques with longsword from Lichtenauers Kunst des Fechtens: Zornhau ort, Bis stercker, Nym es nyder, Oben abnehmen, Duplieren (with Bruch), Mutieren. Source gesellschaft-lichtenawers.eu/t...
Anton Kohutovic, Martin Tibensky - Jak na to + styl
Thank god that these guys are keeping the proud traditions of ancient European martial science alive.
Agreed, this is a part of the European martial tradition, but let's not forget specifically whose style this is.
To anyone interested, this is specifically part of the German fencing tradition, the techniques used here originate from Johannes Lichtenauer.
@@x-rhoden-x6477 And it's important to remember that Lichtnenauer's techniques were learned from Fiore de'i Liberi ;P ;P ;P
@@atomic_wait Lool, You mean Fiore learned from german master, like he said himself ;)
It'd be sweet to have movies with real swordfighting like this that go for a long period of time.:)
Real swordfights DON'T go on for a long time. They're over about as quickly as the video shows.
NoneOfYerBidniz True. But the average swordfight takes about 45 seconds. I've also heard that in a swordfight of 2 people the same skill level, the same style, the same gear/weapons, in a fair setting, and a fair environment, can last ~45 minutes.
***** How many average sword fights have you seen?
***** 1. To parry/block a swing takes about ~1/3 the amount of time that it takes to swing/attack/stab/etc.. And the parry motion is easier to execute than a clean attack (since you are moving less of your body, and its less tiring anyway) (This is an important point and probably the biggest reason why swordfights take longer than one may expect)
2. Well, it does slightly depend on the style of the fighters, but not too much. If they are both super aggressive, then their average fight may last like about 30 seconds (assuming they were fighting sound and carefully). The average swordfighter in general tend to keep their distance a lot, and attack when theres open spots or strategically, or regularly.
3. Whether the first shot lands or not during a fight depends on where the person got hit, but it also depends on the weapon that was used. There was once a duel where 2 men were fighting with rapiers and one guy stabbed the other in the hand, but the guy who got stabbed somehow trapped the rapier so that you couldn't stick it back out of the hand (so it was basically stuck there), then he used his rapier to kill the other guy. Well, thats a legend, at least, but it is physically possible.
4. Swordfighting isn't really comparable to streetfights and ufc fighting and all that unarmed combat stuff. Sword-fighting naturally has a different style, and one difference between the two fighting types is that swordfighters tend to usually keep their distance and parry, block, etc.
***** HEMA seems to be slightly fast paced in my opinion. HEMA is where they teach all the fighting techniques as far as i know, but in a real swordfight you'd probably keep your distance a lot and fight sound and careful, so it would be a bit longer.
Also, I wouldn't say the speed of parrying to striking is that similar. It takes less arm motion to do a simple parry or block, than it takes to do an attack. It is true that attacks can last very small fractions of a second.
Thank you guys for opening my eyes to the beauty and greatness of my Western Heritage. :)
Hope one day Hollywood call you...and that one day I'll be joining you.
After 11 years since my first zornhau ort interpretation I am slowly starting to be a bit more satisfied. The video we did in 2009 shows clearly how one should NOT perform a zornhaw. I wonder how long will it take to be more satisfied with more complicated techniques.
Je dobre vedet jak to nedelat, ale jak to teda delat ? :) Vzhledem k tomu ze jsme pri treningu Zornhau zlomili 3 mece behem jednoho mesice (krome toho ze to nebyly zrvovna kvalitni mece) mam pocit ze delame neco spatne :(
No ja len chytám pocit, že sa v ňom začínam orientovať. Po dobre dlhej dobe. Ale je pravda, že meče určite dostávajú zabrať. Čo tak prísť sa poradiť na Tyrnhaw 2013?
Zatim jeste nejsme uplne rozhodnuti jestli pojedeme, ale rozhodne to zvazujeme. Doufam ze to vyjde.
Nemozem 100% garantovat ako sa vydari tento rocnik, ale ked sa niekto zaobera povodnym sermom tak by som povedal, ze to je skoro povinne:). Nic ine tu totiz nie je:).
:) je to tak. Ostatni ze skupiny uz tam jednou nebo dvakrat byli a rozhodne si to pochvalovali.
Musim se pridat k ostatnim - pro me zatim nejlepsi video, ktere jsem nasel na internetu, zabyvajici se volnym bojem. Bezva rychlost a presnost. Je videt, ze mate velke zkusenosti a ze vas to bavi! Moc dekuji!
Preji vse nejlespi a hezke pozdravy, Petr
One of the most impressive longsword demonstrations I've seen on CZcams! Great work - thank you very much for sharing this.
I wish movie directors would realize this historic fencing exists and show something like this in movies for a change!
I am so glad I found this channel. You guys are so fast, fierce, technical and most importantly controlled. Yalls videos, especially this one are perfect to show someone what HEMA is.
I love this. The speed and commitment to the techniques is at a level that I thought, at first, that it was free sparring. This is one of the most impressive demonstrations I've ever seen, and the two fencers here clearly don't fuck around at all. I've seen both videos, and I'd really like to see more. The realism is amazing. Thank you very much for posting this.
Definately one of the best longsword videos I've seen. The speed and realism is excellent. Inspiring I say
Wicked swordplay guys, I didn't know the longsword could be used in that fashion. Deadly effective.
I've just seen this video and in my 20 years of WMA study, having travelled the world and met so many teachers and students, this is by far the best living application of KdF I have seen to date. The intent, control, body mechanics and technique are superb. I'll be looking for a plane ticket to Slovakia to train with you in 2011 :)
This is my favourite historical european martial arts clip on youtube. The power, speed and intesity are really awe inspiring.
Keep making videos like this! :)
Simple, basic yet deadly effective! And no doubt such styles of proper longsword fighting wreaked tremendous amounts of bloody havoc on the European battlefields of the late 1400s till the mid 1600s (before it fell out of fashion within the combat context, outside of personal duels!). You guys gave a spectacular demonstration, & what amazing dedication, tenacity, timing & skill!
Great stuff, one of the best HEMA videos I've seen for sure. Already served as help and inspiration for our training, I hope the positive feedback encourages you to make more of them.
All the best from Slovenia
I love how you used the soundtrack from "The Witcher".
This is how they train at Kaer Mohren.
Amazing! I was directed here after watching "Fechten mit dem langen Schwert", and I was thoroughly impressed! Thanks for uploading.
Yours are some of the first vids I watched about WMA, and you guys blew me away. I still watch your vids, because they still amaze me. very fast, very skilled, very impressive. Hope that one day you can cover schielhau, krumphau, and schietelhau
I never tire of seeing it! Have a feeling with this weapon enviable! You are an inspiration to those who study the European Medieval Martial Art! Awesome! :)
Seen this over a year ago and still can't get over it; I've got to have watched it dozens of times by now...
Dear Jedislayer,
You are a bro and gentleman of the highest order.
Regards,
HEMAbros everywhere.
Outstanding video, guys. You really capture the spirit of the German fighting system...brutal efficiency of dealing death. Well done!
I keep coming back to watch this. I think this is some of the best longsword fighting on youtube.
Spectacular, in the speed, skill, timing, techniques & power utilized to full, fearsome effect! That demonstration above was dazzling, just incredible in its amazing professionalism. Greatly Enjoyed watching that!
Ein schönes Video mit ordentlich Mehrwert, gut gemacht! Danke.
you are skilled men, greetings from a Dutch epee fencer!
Love this video. The way you guys train is inspiring! Greetings from NYC, Hopefully I can get over and train one day.
Fantastically done cinematography. It certainly intensifies the bout.
You guys're great!!! the skills are powerful but also delicateful.
I'm really glad that I can adjust the speed of the video. Dang there be some slick moves!
You guys are bloody awesome!
It's such a pity that this sport (I don't even know what it's called) is not as widely recognized as Kendo, cause it's so much more entertaining, and I would love to practice it myself, if only such an opportunity existed where I live...
HI!
Enjoyed this video very much, one of my favorite techniques is in fact the Zornhau :)
I always start with it, get the opponent a bit confused. Great technique and great vid.
THX.
TOD from ARS ENSIS
Simply amazing! Would love to see more vids like this, keep up the great work!
that looks like amazing fun, u guys have clearly trained ALOT.
Simply amazing. If only movie directors would have fights even half as good as this.
Hello Robert,
thank you very much for your compliments.
We used standard practise sword from Jan's offer. We also used Pavel Moc swords. They are not sparring swords, but rigid and 2kg swords with widened root of the blades.
Great video!
I liked especially how you changed in the Ochs guard to hit with the point
Beautiful. Upon seeing this, I instantly wish to start training and learning.
I get what you're saying, and it brings us to a difficult choice. Going with the step undoubtedly brings more impact, but as you say, the hand travels much quicker than the foot. Dividing time like this is tricky business -- for instance, it's easy to trick many people out by stepping after the hands move, as it allows one to choose their positioning after they've forced a reaction. But that can't go very fast with anything but a small step. So I definitely think you make a valid point there.
@hindenwolf
I totally agree! One of the best Longsword videos I've seen!
Thumbs up for Witcher 1 music
Thank you. O tebe sme nikde dlho nepoculi, som uz myslel, ze nie si pri serme. vdaka
velice pekne chalani. dore tempo. hodne zdaru.
@halfassedfart Hello,
I didn't see the Lichtenauer model form Pavel Moc. Are there any pictures online? Those swords were our custom design.
Thank you, we appreciate it a lot. We will try to prepare hopefully more interesting stuff soon.
Amazing, great aggression and speed.
Fearsome intensity.. Great work ..
Pictures of the both zornort variants at the end of my article at our web site. It didn't allow me to write here the URL/link to the pictures.
wow ok now im curious what are their sizes(the only "feders" i had in my Hands had the weights of around 1kg (2.2lbs) ) but it was not an ensifer one so hard to compair
as an Iaidoka I'm very impressed, having studied asian martial arts for a long time because there was non of our own stuff surviving or available. Go for it guys
These are very well trained,good arms.
Even as the swords are surely blunt those guys are brave doing that wearing T-shirts. perhaps this gives a elevated sense of real danger and brings realism to their training. If this is so, you guys are insane, and I for one applaud you for it. Impressive speed and intensity.
Some thing I would suggest to this channel is uploading clips of fights like this, but having parts where you slow down the fight and explain it. It seems like only other swordsmen could fully appreciate these videos.
@maeljin Hi. There are both variants in our video. We wanted to show both because both are possible in certain situation. e.g. Falkner and Talhoffer depict Zornhau ort with short edge downwards. My choice depens on the situation (distance, opponents oberhau trajectory)
Regards,
Anton
I keep coming back to this vid. Awsome.
@tossetoke Thank you very much Toke. You mean Oli from Dreynschlag?
Love it, exceptionally well done.
Holy shit that was some of the most hardcore "sparring" I've seen.
I really like the energy, really fast.
@kohutovic i saw this for the first time about a week ago and i am completely fascinated. like many, i had always thought of western-style swordfighting as boring hack and slash, but this video really opened my eyes to this lost art of western martial-arts and I cannot wait to begin training. Also: POST MOAR VIDS THIS SH**T IS AWESOME!! :)
This made longsword fencing so epic!
@halfassedfart If I describe it it will probably look like in the video. But I use more body rotation, it comes more from above, and the gap between contact of swords and hitting chest is very very short. And yes, I started to thrust into neck and chest as well. You can see here only head hits.
this is the first time ive checked this out its amazing
very interesting stuff. Looks like an awesome weapon.
Impressive video. I think I can recognize all the techniques except the two strokes/techniques @ 1m22s
It seems a counter against a winding move. Which techniques is this
@SwordsAndBeer Hello. Thank you. These variations are based mainly on general Lichtenauers techniques described in all manuscript like Peter von Danzig, Sigmund Ringeck, etc. There are Zornhaw ort, bis sterk er wider, oben abnehmen, duplieren, mutieren.
Man id love to something like this, what category does it fall under fencing or sword fighting?
@Tulcaryar You can find everything on our web. Music is from the game Witcher.
hudba ze Zaklínače :D :) paráda koukat na vás kluci :)
@Tyrhor which the German sword masters are said to be Czech?
I've seen this video a dozen time or more, and I'm always awed by the skill oy guys show. What sources do these variations come from? Are they from a single manual, or from multiple manuals? If you could share that information it would be a great help for me and those of us out here who want to have something (a very, very high something) to shoot for.
This is how this type of sword fighting should be done. Skilfully, and with no silly LARP costumes.
Fantastic vids.
@nowymail Hi nowymail, the techniques shown are for unarmoured combat. In full armour, the sword is held like a short spear with the left hand on the blade (called "half-sword" or "armour hand"). This is done to to seek out the armour's weak points (joints, down the cuffs of the gauntlets etc.) or to assist in grappling.
@halfassedfart I are doing the zornhau ort now faster and more efectively with short reaction time for opponent.
is the clashing sound real? the last time i dueled with my claymore it was not that noisy?
@kohutovic do have eastern european fencing methods around?
These look great, guys.
Hey, where did you get those gloves, how much were they and how well do they work?
Oh shit I want more! please!
you guys are awesome!
What fencing masks do you use/recommend for HEMA?
Hey!
I attended your seminar in the Netherlands a few days ago ( one of the 3 guys of Invirtus, with the braid :p ). It was very enlightening and a lot a fun! I was especially impressed by your speed. So, I was wondering, do you have any more excercises on speed/explosivity you recommend?
Thanks,
Jem
Hello, thank you. I am writing about swords in the article linked in the video description.
Hi nice fencing. Never seen that long and thin swords how are they called(only longswords?) and where did you buy them?
very dynamic!
congratulations!
I have both of them. Both are very good. You should not make a mistake by choosing anyone.
@kohutovic Máte apsolutnu pravdu suhlasím s Vami. Ospravedlnujem sa. Je pravda ze som si neprečítal názov videa a teda že je to len nácvyk technik. Scénický Šerm som aktývne robil 11 rokov a samozrejme som sa venoval aj reálnemu šermu preto som si dovolil opnovať tomuto videu. Ešte raz sa ospravedlnujem a ako nácvik technik to beriem :) S úctou Aratron
@Entheobotany
Ringeck writes:
"Wer dir ober hawet, zorn haw ort im dröwet.
Glosa.
Daß vernym also: wann dir ainer von siner rechten sytten oben ein hawet, so haw einen zorn haw mitt der langen schniden och von diner rechten achslen mitt im starck ein. Ist der dann waich am schwert, so schüß jm den ort für sich lang ein zu dem gesicht. Vnnd träw im zu stechen."
Where is here note about height of arms?
what kind of workout regimen do you guys do?
Thx for that video, I enjoyed it a lot.
Good job. I wish you many succes in your Hobby ;-)
very good training
amz!!!You are the grandmaster of sword.
@kohutovic Are these the Pavel Moc 'Lichtenauer' swords?
Both thrust is possible and each version is suitable in slightly different situation. Sometimes is better to do it with KS (kurtze schneide) upwards sometime downwards. It depend on the style of opponents cut. Both versions are proved by manuscripts. In this video, you can see both. Direct thrust is done in the most sequences when zornort continues to winden, duplieren, abnehmen ...
So when do we get a new video? You guys are awesome..I always use your vids to introduce people the reality of European swordplay.
Very nice video. Thanks for subscribing, BTW. Where did you get your feders? They look like they perform well.
whats the weight of a federschwert?
Thank you. I probably mean duplieren after oberhau? Or "Bruch/Break/" against duplieren.
@hindenwolf Thank you very much. Yes, it is german longsword fencing, Lichtenauers tradition.
great video with good music
greate Video!
which swords do you use?
@TimberwolfCY Thank you very much. Good encouragement to make some new and better of course.