Goku isn't Overconfident | The Anatomy of Anime
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Toei Animation and Akira Toriyama have moved forward with this notion that Son Goku is a clear example of an overconfident character.
I have never agreed with this and I've always thought of that particular trait as something closer to Vegeta. So today we will be diving head first into the lore of Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Super, while extracting a quote from Resurrection F. Sit back and relax Totally Not Mark's Anatomy of Anime!
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Goku knows Jackie Chun is still out there somewhere. He knows there's still someone out there who is stronger than him.
@Kingshuk Monsur but he never beat Jackie Chun.
@And then they said but goku never knew he was roshi
He knows Saitama exists
Monaka
Kingshuk Monsur hé means master roshi
Goku ISN’T overconfident, he’s just a little on the unintelligent side, that’s all.
Just Some Guy without a Mustache then you never understood the show. Goku is a mystery
Get out of every comment section
He’s definitely not unintelligent
@@deusfusion7945 when it comes to fighting he's not. He's a genius
Goku is a strategist, he's smart in terms of fighting. Goku is the kind of guy that does good in things that are only important to him.
If we're talking about overconfidence that award definitely goes to Vegeta.
I've never realized how many people don't understand Goku's character. It's weird.
I've been disappointed to find out how many people seem to want to shit on Goku just for the sake of it. Truth be told, I think those people do it solely because DBZA does.
@@werecactus6 yeah. vegeta is shown off as this genius hard core badass who is the picture of perfection no matter the mistake he's made and is always praised no matter what. and like you said ppl like to shit on goku cause its normal to hate on everything. people are so stupid its sad and annoying.
@@davidempey8980 Don't get me wrong, I love Vegeta. He's super interesting and entertaining. But people forget that the whole point of him as a character is that as smart as he is, he's always wrong. They also forget that Goku is very well liked by his friends, because he's nice to them and he brings out the best in them. The franchise doesn't work without this--every single person in his group started out hostile towards him, but he won them over. That's what he DOES.
@@werecactus6 i always thought vegeta was a strong but boring person but that's just me. but i did have the thought that uub might replace goku someday. goku and vegeta can't go on forever.
Not like we have had over 30 years with his character or anything right ?! 🙄
Whis punching goku like that reminds me of Krillin throwing a rock at him when he's super saiyan in the cell saga
The rail gun piercing him when he lowered his guard was, also, a direct callback to that very same scene. It had been established even back in dragonball classic, that a sufficiently strong character ready for it could easily tank bullets- yet, in Z, we see an unprepared super Saiyan can get hurt by a small rock as though he were a normal person.
Gonna be the devil's advocate for this one, and say that Whis SPECIFICALLY targetted Goku when he was this relaxed- precisely because that's exactly the training he state he was looking for: being able to react and instantly mount your defense / dodge while relaxed. If you look at how Ultra Instinct behaves, it looks rather chill when adverting attacks, much unlike how Super Saiyan and up barges through them.
@@bragnir you took the words from my mouth
@@bragnir I always see people bring up characters tanking bullets in DB, but it never makes sense to me. Goku is still stung a bit by bullets when his guard is down, and it's not like his skin is hardening as he gets stronger. When Bulma shoots him as a kid, it stings him, it is 100% reasonable that still as an adult, with his guard down in his base form, he would still feel a similar sting. Frieza's laser was probably a lot stronger than a bullet, and it's no more of a stretch to suggest that Frieza, with his advanced alien technology, could develop a weapon to kill a weakened Goku, than it is to suggest that Gero, a guy who's robots he made in his prime were just canon fodder for Goku, could create robots able to completely destroy super saiyans with ease.
@@melon6444 DB feats are a bit unreliable because of how Toriyama forgets about stuff and then pulls new stuff out of his ass every other day. However, the whole tanking bullets and yet being stung by them thing has been more or less mainstreamed as "being ready for it" vs "not so". DB characters use their ki for pretty much everything: speed, attack, energy attacks and yes: defense.
A super saiyan who's, for some reason, NOT using his ki to enhance his defense can very much get one-shot by a farmer with a shotgun.
An early reference to this where characters can be clearly seen getting prepared for such attacks, is the demon king piccolo saga in the original dragonball: when Launch shoots Tambourine (I think that was his name- it's been years) with her uzi- he actively prepares to tank them.
Melon 64
I guess Son Goku could not control his power back then, so it was always on.
Goku expressed nervousness when fighting guys like Raditz, Frieza, The Androids, Cell, and Buu. He does express quite a bit of caution and seems to be aware of his physical parameters as well.
It sucks how backwards his development is in modern Dragonball because he seemed so mature and wise(as much as can be expected from Goku) in the Buu saga. Its as if Super undone all of that progression.
ReeceHoward06 wrong. He’s just more of himself in Super rather than the guy that messed everything up in the Boo arc
@@ReeceHoward06 he's a flat character there never has been any development
@@ReeceHoward06 I wouldn't say wise but definitely mature
@@newdawnhorizon9879 cap
"I love Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and even Dragon Ball Super"
RIP GT
and kai maybe
edit: this reply doesn't make much sense
TheWildStereotypicalHam I like Kai better than Z
This comment has 69 likes
Abubakar jamro not any more
Poldi
GT is the bastard child of the franchise
Vageta is overconfident. Goku is humble
The only Overconfident moment of Goku is when he's eating.
Not even then. Have you ever seem him not finish a plate?
@QUEENDOM arrogant is a part of overconfidence. What school did you attend?
Agreed, vagina is overconfident...
(Go go grab a bowl intensifies)
@@nocwyn Vagina? 😂😂😂 I thought it was Vegeta.
He WASN'T overconfident until they decided that they wanted that to be a character flaw.
Like the one thing he kept from his Sayian lineage was the love for fighting. He loves to fight people and get stronger and then fight stronger people
The problem is that it's one of the biggest thing he is not. His humility is a big part of his character.
Personally I think this overconfidence thing is more of arguing semantics over actual portrayal. Because Goku still is the overeager warrior looking for a challenge in Super. I don't think the writers meant overconfidence as in the condescending kind Vegeta shows but more of the "he loves to let his guard down to enjoy every fight" kind Goku always has shown. In the Universe 6 Tournament and Tournament of Power he never really writes anyone off just because he know he knows he can win, he genuinely is looking forward for each fight he's in and to enjoy the most of it he had to suppress himself especially when he was low on energy towards the end. I just think that it was a poor choice of words on the writers' part.
Exactly. You get it. He's the humble guy who won't back down from a fight no matter the odds because he loves the challenge. Vegeta wasn't the grinder. He was the Prodigy. Goku was the grinder, the underdog. They changed their mind and now it's all flipped.
@@adarshbs7259 I would argue that it's rightfully flipped. Vegeta was born a prodigy while Goku or Kakarot was born average. But as Vegeta said during the Buu Saga, he only fought for the pleasure of vanquishing his enemies, while Goku only trained to better himself. Being a low-class warrior there was nobother way for Goku to get stronger but to keep training. Vegeta was taught an extrospective philosophy, you're power level reading tells you that you're either weak or strong so the strong can rule over the weak and the ones that didn't cut it should be the ones following. Goku was taught an introspective philosophy, there's always someone stronger so no matter how strong you get you can always aim higher. Both of them recognise that there are stronger peopl3 but Vegeta views strength in a malicious way and Goku views strength in a humble way, and of course Goku hitting his help did help him develop that kindness in the first place.
This is why Goku was considered a genius even though Vegeta was the prodigy all the way back in the Cell Saga. Goku immediately realised the problem of forcefully ascending past Super Saiyan and as a martial artist having trained with many masters he knows speed and strength can never be substituted for one another. While Vegeta knew too but unlike Goku who saw the retaining the regular Super Saiyan transformation as a path to release his full potential Vegeta still was looking for a transformation that gave immediate power because that was the only way he knew how to get stronger, Vegeta saw how the gravity chamber made Goku stronger and he thinks spamming it will make him surpass Goku, same with the time chamber. Vegeta's problem is he only knows how to get stronger with the methods shown to him unlike Goku who is always seeking out other ways and people to teach him. In that sense he's more rigid and less flexible than Goku and that's how he became the grinder. Fortunately after the Tournament of Power Vegeta has realised this and is seeking his own way to get stronger.
Personally, I never saw Goku's attitude in the Cell Saga as overconfidence. I'd rather talk of a great act of love towards his son. Goku, whose one and only dream in life was always to surpass all limits, decided to happily sacrifice that very dream for his son. From a certain point of view, he gave up the love of his life for Gohan. In the end, despite all his efforts and sacrifices, he was not the strongest, he had not surpassed the ultimate limit. But he was just so happy that HIS SON was the one who had made it.
Again, from Goku's peculiar point of view, this could be seen as the greatest love declaration of all.
He didn't even think about Gohan feelings until Picollo yelled them at his face.
Geo “From Goku’s (VERY) peculiar point of view.”
There’s a reason I specified that.
It’s also a great contrast from Vegeta who abandoned his son and focused on making himself stronger instead. You get a perfect view of their philosophies and how they differs in that arc.
@@geo4290 You really didn't understand what he said x2 xd
@@juliandavidhoffer2022 Yeah. I mean, Goku still had something to learn about fatherly love due to his ingenuity (namely: letting your son suffer randomly is NOT good), but he had his heart in the right place.
"What's draining your strength is your own doubt..."
--Goku to Gohan, Perfect Cell saga
Milky Pal time to make that a tattoo quote on my arm
Except it wasn't his doubt, his power *was* cut in half from that hit. Which should show you how much stronger he was than super perfect cell. XD
@@imglidinhere Yes,but It also came from Gohan doubt In himself(since he isn't a fighter like Goku,or any of the Z fighters)and the fact that he didn't want to endup destroying the planet as a result of him going all out.
i just cant hack it dad im just a kid I havent changed not at all-gohan then goku:" would you stop attacking yourself idk where you got it in your head that there's something wrong with you cuz there's not you've saved my life and our friends life so many times and your going to do it again right now. Then cell go " what on earth are you mumbling about chanting a little prayer before you die." I have dbz lines in my memory forever
To be fair, Gohan's only LITERAL weakness was his doubt in that entire arc lol.
Goku has been my favorite character since Dragonball. He's pure to a fault. His only goal in his life is to become stronger solely for the gratification of surpassing his own limits. So, yeah he can seem naive or unintelligent at times but that's because of his lack of focus in other areas of his life that don't pertain to his ultimate goal. He's not dumb, naive or over confident but rather so focused on his ultimate goal it can lead to problems for anyone around him not on the same journey. That's why him and Vegeta are the perfect pair. Goku's ultimate goal is to break his limits and Vegetas goal is surpass kakarot. So, together they're infinitely strong pretty much.
I'd say he's not dumb, but uneducated. He grew up in the woods, alone for years. Also, I don't think he ever got treatment for his brain damage as a child.
Goku is definitely educated. But he was educated by the nature and life around him.
What the people before me said.. And yes he wants to get stronger, he is a fighter but he never in DB and Z put his fighting obsession get in the way when his friends or people (earth or whatever) needed him. So when the situation needed him to be focust.. he was pretty damn focused and calculative as shown in the video i.e. against Frieza.
@@aaronkasarion8144 That's not education
People: Goku is overconfident
Goku when Gohan reaches the Super Saiyan 2: GOHAN, YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE CELL DOWN NOW, BEFORE HE CAN REGENERATE!
People: Hum...
Before super Goku wasn’t overconfident. But every time Gohan is stronger then somebody he ends up fucking it up
Vanish Hero Gohan is also overconfident till he lacks any confidence.
Yeah and Goku saw Gohan transfrom before anyone and knew he could beat Cell how is that overconfident that's facts
@@Chriso22 Yeah, I like the point in this video that confidence and overconfidence are two different things. Confidence is based on facts, while over confidence is based on ego.
Funny you ignore how he gave Cell a Senzu before that
I honestly think he's overcome that since his battle with vegeta, and i really saw that too when he battled broly, jumping from form to form testing out his and brolys limits (well until he went super Saiyan and destroyed both goku and vegeta)
Then SSJ Broly pummeled Frieza for like an hour, since Goku and Vegeta messed up the fusion dance twice, and that fusion method lasts 30 minutes.
jruler93
Props to Frieza for that God tier durability
Tbh i expected more from a mortal that blocked a hakai
@@donkeycheese8098 I expect more from a mortal that can create hakai
Autistic Duck I mean we kinda already knew about it from Namek, dude got hit by a spirit bomb, kicked from Kaioken, cut in half, got hit by a full super saiyan blast, and got blown up with a planet. All of that and Frieza was still alive.
What whis said could be interpreted as whis not understanding goku.
Good point
The writers of Dragon Ball Super arent smart enough to write a mentor character being wrong about someone he's supposed to be teaching
That would be worst in my opinion. Angles in Dragon Ball (i.e the Dragon Ball Wiki) "are beings of extremely high status within the hierarchy of the multiverse. Their role is to guide and teach Gods of Destruction to master their destructive capabilities as well as also serving them as their personal attendants." Any being that's meant to guide literal Gods should be omnipotent, which Whis has shown through everything he does. Claiming him to not understand someone like Goku or anything in general, especially after observing him for about 6 months, would be counterintuitive to everything he's suppose to be. Him being wrong about something so simple pretty much destroys his status as Angel.
If want to be meta about it, Toriyama didn't give a shit.
@QUEENDOM In the Raditz fight, he doesn't let go of Raditz' tail as if he wants to fight him more. He knows he's going to lose without help in that fight. He does that because Raditz pleads for his life saying they're brothers. And it's more of a hesitation than purposely letting go.
@QUEENDOM I didn't say Goku is flawless or that he made mistakes. I'm just arguing about the reason he let go of Raditz' tail.
I agree that Piccolo was the superior fighter, but now he's way behind. Unfortunately.
The dynamic of Goku and Vegeta is that they're opposites. If Goku really was overconfident the dynamic wouldn't work as well as it does
This.
But goku still has moments of overconfidence
Seemed to be the opposite dynamic in resurrection F. Frieza powered down from his golden form and goku let his guard down thinking it was over. Vegeta actually attempted to finish frieza.
@@phantomface9211 that isnt him being overconfident just stupid and naive
@@phantomface9211 lowering your guard isnt overconfidence did you watch the vid vegeta even in resurrection f is overconfident
He's not overconfident. He's reckless. There's a big difference.
Byte man Are you okay in the head? in your own links they are not the same definition or stand in for each other. The word being related doesn’t mean it’s the same definition . In that dictionary.com link type in sex, words related is manliness and manhood didn’t know they have the same definition as sex. Take a second to think about what you are saying before you type something because you feel intelligent. Used your links btw, so if you looking for my facts click your own links.😂🤦🏾♂️
By the way you can be reckless by being overconfident. That’s prolly what you were thinking I’m guessing still don’t mean the same thing.
@Byte man Wow imagine stating something then sourcing links that entirely refute your initial point like that. Did you get hit in the head as a child?
Future Trunks arc in DBSuper
@Byte man Are you trolling?
The only thing he's confident about is his ability to learn new things
And even then Is not misplaced since he ALWAYS learns new things.
He learned Ultra Instinct in 45 mins...
Like varying degrees of pain?
he learned kamehameha in minutes when it took roshi years to master.
@@juliorenteria7138 he's been learning ultra instinct since he met whis
"Goku isn't overconfident, he's selfish" is one hell of a take and a very succinct way to describe the core of how he approaches fighting.
No. This describes him the very best. This is how this character is. If You don't understand why it's the best description of Goku, You don't understand the character. Because that's his MAJOR trait. That makes him being Goku. He mades his decisions because of that trait.
@@Netsuki how is Goku selfish? Almost every fight after Cell vs Gohan, Goku has given to others.
@@artypyrec4186 because in my opinion, despite goku saving the earth countless of times, that isnt to say a lot of unnecessary things happened. goku a lot of the times in battles will get over exuberant because the opponent hes fighting is incredibly strong, and this will lead to goku a lot of the times making the selfish decision, which has cost people their lives, to at times prolong the fights because goku is just worried about the fight and his opponent. just my two cents
@@artypyrec4186 Because Goku literally called himself selfish early on. That's the real reason he asked Krillin to spare Vegeta. Because he wanted to fight him again. He knew how much of a bad idea it was, that Vegeta might never change, and he might go on to try to destroy the world and hurt more people. But still he *begged* Krillin to let him have that second chance to battle such a worthy opponent.
rhonda howard The reason why the trait of selfishness is a misnomer on Goku’s character, is because Goku is ultimately good. Not only that but Goku strongest character trait is naïveté, something people always mistake for selfishness. Not only that saving Vegeta proved to be a critical vital moment to help out Goku’s friends later on in their fight against The Ginyu force against the Frieza Force soldiers and ultimately against Frieza himself, on planet Namek.
The vast majority of fans who don’t like Goku‘s character try to use the “selfish“ argument against Goku‘s character. But to no avail. If Goku makes one decision that ultimately everyone must suffer, with no redeemable qualities in sight, then it should easily be deemed a selfish act. But if that decision in turn helps he himself or any of his friends for the positive that decision was a positive. I.e. non-selfish decision.
I get it, Goku did say “I know it’s selfish” when talking to his best friend about sparing Vegeta’s life. However again my argument kicks in, Goku‘s decision to spare Vegeta’s life turned out to be the ultimate win for himself and his friends. If Vegeta were dead, Gohan and Krillin would also be dead. Because they wouldn’t have had the power level to take on The Ginyu Force, alone. Vegeta provided the perfect back up to save their lives. A lot of fans like to try and find negatives within Goku because they hate his character to either some minor or major degree, it’s that simple. If this weren’t true then Mark wouldn’t of had to of been forced to make a video where countless fans call out Goku for being overconfident when in reality.. I for plethora of years have been stating the opposite. Goku has never been overconfident. He has always known what he is able to do, and because of his caution, and due to his proper training he’s been able to push himself far beyond the limitations that anybody else ever has. It’s kind of sad, because this just goes to show people only see what they wanna see. And even if you have someone like totally not Mark, myself or someone else who can show them undeniably that they are wrong, people will still choose to believe that they are right despite knowing they are wrong. And they will make excuses for it.
The only time I can think of where Goku was overconfident was when he first met Popo in Dragon Ball
Yeah and even then he actually had a few reasons:
1. He was literally 15
2. He had just killed the guy who had been hyped up to be the strongest ever
3. He had no reason to think Popo could fight and Popo really doesn’t look threatening. (And by that point he could detect power levels, at least to some extent.)
@@MarioLuigi0404 yes he might have reasons but still overconfident
@LiL Speng a logical conclusion yes but that doesn't take away from the fact that goku was overconfident. Goku even said himself that it would be an easy fight and calls it a fluke when popo lands the 1st punch. This is exactly how arrogant goku was when he fought beerus.
@LiL Speng was vegeta not arrogant when he let cell reach his perfection? Was vegeta not overconfident when he was about to finish frieza in resurrection f?
@LiL Speng goku in super is not the same character i agree. Hes an idiot in super. Thus far you have said nothing to disprove goku's overconfidence against popo. He thought it would be an ez fight and i could understand why. I would be overconfident in that fight but overconfidence is overconfidence no matter the age or mind state.
I watched DBS with French subtitles and in the french version Whis said that he was too relaxed and not overconfident.
I don't remember what Whis says in the Japanese version (a.k.a. original text), but either way, the English dub was misleading, being a literal translation or not.
@@argolds and thus I'm going to advocate the "make sure we got this right by talking with our staff in Japan" stance. Seriously, it's a big scene that they f**ked up by what I can assume is a lack of communication and double checking the scripts translation, which would have been easy to fix considering that they should already be doing this.
Not 100 % sure, but I believe "too relaxed" was also what Whis said in the German Dub. It would make way more sense.
Against Piccolo (Jr) he was very fast too relaxed and Piccolo managed to hit him with a mouth beam through his shoulder.
In the fight with Freeza, it happened twice. He turned off supersaiyan and flew away, and he got (almost) hit by Freeza's Destructo Disk. Later when he gave Freeza his engery, he also let his guard down. He managed to counter Freezas beam attack, but it was very close.
You could even advocate he was too early too relaxed with Radditz.
A special case is his fight with (Majin) Vegeta, because he thought he could trust him, but in the end Goku was too early too relaxed.
Aah so this could just be a translation error. Makes sense.
Same in Catalan dub
*Mark:* asks his audience for their opinion on something using Twitter
*Also Mark:* proceeds to obliterate his audiences opinions in a CZcams video
Seriously though, this is a great video. I fucking love these.
Emphasis on “Obliterate”
Because people were wrong. And he was right about them being wrong. It's literally the same I try to say to Vegeta/Gohan fanboys| Goku haters. For years. Or longer. But people literally refuse to understand that facts.
@@Netsuki it's an anime take it easy lol
@@MrMultiPat wym, that's totally NOT Mark...
Cartoon character: *makes statement*
Totally Not Mark: I'm about to end this mans whole career
Correction: Cartoon Character makes *incorrect* statement
Correction: Anime character: *makes statement*
Correction: Anime Character: *makes incorrect statement*
@@LJ-hk4tv Correction: Anime Character: ||makes statement||
@@obiwankenobi1608 No
This actually made me like Goku a little more as a character. Thanks Mark.
Goku has always been my favorite character. I always knew he was a largely misunderstood character, and Super made it so much harder to defend him. Love the channel Not Mark
👍
You know, without knowing the entire path Goku took from his youth, I could understand Whis making a wrong conclusion.
It’s funny cause at the time Whis barely knew Goku
Yeah, just ‘cause you’re the mentor doesn’t mean you can absolutely ascertain the truth about your student. Which is the point Mark made in last week’s video on Whis.
Honestly, I think the biggest piece in why people still think why Goku is overconfident instead of being Naïve, is not watching the og Dragon Ball. Sure, in terms of world building and plot development, Dragon Ball isn't needed at all. But in terms of character development, its a goldmine on what makes the character (mostly Goku and Krillin in DBZ) themselves. Had people seen og Dragon Ball, they would know why Goku is really naïve and innocent. I mean shoot, he didn't even know girls existed for 12-13 years (forgot his exact age in the start of Dragon Ball) and had to "Cupcheck" them to see if they were a Boy or Girl.
@@oH_._ He knew girls existed just nothing else about them
@@juliorenteria7138 Right right. He knew them just didn't know how they looked like. Cause I remember Goku saying his Grandpa told him about girls.
Goku, a man of innocence, selfishness, honor, and never-ending naivety.
I once saw him kill a man with a ki blast a single fucking ki blast
Kinda oximoronic when you think of selfishness and honor in the same sentence.
@@joshuablackmon939 how so? A swordsman can be selfish and still get what he wants with honor and respect.
I can't agree he is selfish. Naive, yes, selfish? There were three moments he was selfish or arguably so, and a bonus.
1. Wanting Vegeta to live. And he asked his friends for this once to indulge him. What kind of selfish person is consientious enough that what they are asking is a lot? A selfish person would demand and not see how they are asking too much at all. And it's not like they hadn't just beaten Vegeta starting with a handicap and couldn't do it again Vegeta knew he had to get better to get back on them and so would Goku.
2. Frieza. Just mentioning because insist on that. Goku's mind was altered by the new form, and he was fighting Frieza. He could feel Friezas power, he could compare to his and nd know even going double wouldn't measure up to himself. That might be arrogance, sayan saddism even, but not selfish. And later he naively thought Frieza would repent. Naive, not selfish. When Frieza proved even to his thicc skull he was not gonna change, Goku promptly tried to kill him for everyone's sake.
3. Super, with its infinite fanservicing writing and dialogue, but that is already super and we are saying super gets goku wrong.
Bonus. Leaving with Uub. I could arguee that to his mind his kids are adults and do not need him anymore, Uub does, and that is a guy who crosses the globe in less than a second or he instantly teleports for a visit... Whose kids also can cross the globe in an instant to visit him. Sooo selfish if we ignore the actual character and world like DBGTs first episode did. But ya know, if granpa decides for once to be genuinely selgish in his old age, that doesn't make grandpa selfish, ffs he earned it
@@louisvictor3473 You have a sound arguement but, I don't think that it proves that he isn't selfish. He made multiple risky decisions against his friend's judgement just to indulge himself such as sparing Vegeta, letting Freiza reach 100%, letting Freiza live, putting Gohan against Cell, healing Cell, the TOP, and whatever else happened in GT
..cause I forgot. While I think he isn't selfish enough to cause harm intentionally, you gotta admit, in his pursuit of strong opponents, he can be pretty selfish and sometimes even destructively so.
Never thought of goku as over confident, just a big risk taker.
One of the best moments of Goku in the entire series was during his fight against Frieza! And it happened before SSJ transformation. Even before the Spirit Bomb. It was when Frieza was literally toying with Goku and Goku even had nightmare visions of losing....He was outmatched completely. It's so rare that we see what's going on inside Goku's head. We have seen Goku overcome circumstances with a lot of struggle, but we never witnessed Goku being terrified!!!
Goku allowing Frieza to power up was intentional because ironically he was not confident if he kills Frieza at his 50% and somehow he returns in future, he may not be able to defeat him then. We have seen Goku in different mindsets but never was he scared of losing everything as he was during the Frieza battle. Later, when he was able to technically overpower Frieza at 100%, then he was confident enough of his power to outmatch Frieza even if he has to face him in future. That's why he lets him go then...
Yeah, basically he wanted to completely break Frieza’s spirit. Which, albeit in an evil and twisted way, was the true source of his power.
A good example to show goku also being scared but unkowing, was when he was shaking from fear because of hit and had to have it pointed out.
Again This is How The writers fucked up In legit every Scenario where goku knew or thought that he would lose.........Then he would admit that shit #Cell #Buu when Ssj2
#Vegeta, Goku said he might lose #Buuhan, Goku knew he had to fuse in order to gain any sort of chance of winning
But In super they Went with Toriyami’s “OG” What Toriyami wanted storyline for Dbs which fucked everything up
I mean, the way Super has made Goku a worse version of Luffy, I'd be overconfident, too, if I had significant brain injury and the knowledge that there are magic balls and SUPER magic balls that can literally undo anything I do. Even bringing back something that's been erased from existence.
Wut
wong feimun HOW DO U STUPID
the series tried at least 2 TIMES to establish something to replace the treath of death, once in the Buu saga with the whole "if you die while being already dead, that's it dude. game over" and the other in Super with "erasure from existence". Yet both times the series didn't had the _balls_ to keep it up
@@tomasparant8901 well the super db's can do literally anything lol.
Goku is super naive, NOT overconfident.. I think Whis is talking about the other saiyin..
You know.. the one that put his saiyin "pride" above anything else..
@QUEENDOM Arrogant or overconfident, their both percieved as wrong, so whats your point? its not like one trait is infinitly worse then the other one. who gives a shit?
Having proof of your words or actions still make you end up less empathetic towards others if your acting arrogant "OR" over-confident.
And speaking of Goku, he actually wanted to give Vegeta a chance to kill Kid buu while he could easily kill him in his SSj3 form "before" his spirit bomb, but instead he was "naive" and let his chance to kill Kid Buu slip which made the situation even worse..
@QUEENDOM I'd have to disagree here. Based on the definition of overconfident, Vegeta is both quite arrogant and quite overconfident. He consistently sizes up his opponents and deems them to be the less superior fighter, but then goes to get his ass handed to him. There are several times where Vegeta manages to keep his overconfidence at bay, but there are also plenty of times he straight up egos his way into a tough lesson in humility.
Honestly the misunderstanding of the character of goku as well as other is the reason why I really don't like dbs. The fact that believe it or not alot of people are turning a blind eye to plot holes and other things that are objectively wrong with the series shows how docile we have become. We aren't thinking as much as we used to and instead people rationalize way flaws and really I just don't believe that is a productive way to look at things. Great video BTW dude.
is it possible that they using "overconfidence" when they are actually talking about his naivity?
Philip kelton perhaps. When I hear overconfidence I think arrogance which is as mark stated, more so a vegeta trait.
It might also just be Whis not quite understanding Goku as well as he thinks he does.
That's what I was thinking.
Wies uses the word "naive" instead of "overconfident" and mark doesn't have an episode anymore
like i said, this seems more of a misstranslation than anything else, considering that this is at first a JAPANESE show. Japanese people are seen as "overconfident" when they are just "relaxing" their society is built on that principle, if you are not doing anything, you are lazy.
@@Gadlight 100% like for instance When Akira Toriyama says that he was lazy while making the manga. We all know that is not true because he putting out the manga weekly. he meant he had to cut corners to make his deadline but he called it being lazy. Also When Toriyama says he is forgetful which is also not true.
Another principle of the Japanese is being Humble and one way Toriyama seems to show his humbleness is to say that he is forgetful! Like he said he forgot about the character Lunch in the Saiyan Saga. but if you look at the Dragon Ball a visual History Toriyama drew a little Christmas strip for the Shonen Jump Magazine and Lunch and she was searching for Tien who was training with Kami. So did he really forget the character or did he have no more use for her so he wrote out of the story! I believe he wrote her out because the comedy aspect of Dragon ball was going to be less and Lunch was added to DB for Comedy!
He said he forgot about SSJ 3, now this is believable because it been almost 15 years since the Buu saga, of course, he would forget a form that he has looked at for almost 15 years.
0:03 "DBS didn't understand the first thing about Goku's character..."
Their animation staff - at the time - didn't understand the first thing about proper anatomy, either.
Goku's biceps/triceps are in the opposite places in the way his arms rest here. At least I can say they're not always like that.
Hey you're right what the fuck ?
Yeah, it’s like his arms are backwards.
Ha i noticed that too
"Goku isn't Overconfident"
10 months later, Goku throws a sensu bean at Moro.
To be honest it wasnt confidence, It was just stupidity. Too bad the writers can't tell the difference
That's more of him being selfish and naive again than him being overconfident, especially considering Moro, even after eating that Sensu Bean, was clearly still not a match for him, only managing to break his own arm. Goku just didn't count on the fact that the arm Merus had cut off would still be there. That's not overconfidence, just naivety.
Goku stupidity being a threat to all life in the universe checks out
@@badabingbing474 well, that's less of a trait exclusive to Goku and more of Saiyans in general. We saw Vegeta and Gohan do some pretty stupid stuff too. The writers just like to abuse that trait of Goku a lot because plot needs to happen.
yeah, thats marks point, is that DBS is BS...
100% agreed!!!!
True
Akira Toryama was overconfident because The manga was selling a Lot.
Akagi Kaiji said hi..
I love how totally not mark disects characters like he's shikamaru on steroids
Edit :thanks guys this is the most liked comment I've ever typed
Brain steroids?
“What a drag”
@@air-headedaviator1805 beat me too it
I finally started watching naruto and finally understand a naruto comment! 😂
@@NathanUpliftpk Nice
Dude, I love how you wrote about Goku. His character is relatable. People of his character is often ignored and taken for granted for in life. However, in character as well, we shouldn't care to be ignored. We do us.
Calling him a battle obsessed psychopath would apply more than overconfident, hell Goku is the kind of guy that is ok with getting killed if he gets a good fight out of it.
Sociopath*
Psychopath is more along the lines of doing so because their ability to feel the emotions are impaired. Things like remorse. Goku was actually confirmed to be a sociopath by the writers, as he perceives all his friends in the same light, Krillin is just as important to him as his family. This view of friendship is why his family life is rough around the edges. He just doesn’t understand it.
@@cookieelement3467 By "the writers" you mean Toriyama, the guy that calls androids cyborgs and cyborgs androids?
@@Doomroar Yes. And in this case I trust the person that wrote up the character of Goku on his assessment on his personality. Toriyama forgets stuff and makes errors, he is human, but discounting his interpretation of Goku's character because of that doesn't seem like the best idea when he made Goku's character.
@@cookieelement3467 You mean the same guy that says Goku's fault is that he is overconfident, and Vegeta never underestimates his enemies?
@@Doomroar toyotarou wrote that vegeta doesn’t underestimate his enemies.
They pronounced goku (kakarot)during the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade as "Cockorot"
Epic _😎😎😎😎👊👊_
Tell me your lying
*Say sike right now*
I missed it, tell me someone DVR’ed this!
@@gos2501 czcams.com/video/6xGZFqJrt8M/video.html
I honestly had no idea people thought he was overconfident.
I thought that Vegeta was always very clearly the overconfident one.
Unfortunately, many people thinks Goku is stupid and Vegeta is badass, knowing his ways. But that's exact opposite. People refuses to knw that Vegeta is overconfident one. I argued with people who are like that for many years.
@@Netsuki , to be fair Goku is stupid or at the very least foolish and selfish
@Madhumita Mandal , you seem angry.
@Thelmon , exactly.
Thought Vegeta improved a lot in that regard Since the Buuu saga, Goku.... Not so much.
@@ADAJ342 I don't think his selfish but I do think he is stupid
Yamcha, the Forgotten character.
Honestly, most of the human fighters are kinda underused, but mostly him.
eh, i feel i would kinda argue the opposite, i would say yamcha is one of the more overused human fighters since he gave it up after dying, he didn't want to be a fighter anymore. I would argue that Tien is the most underused human fighter as he continued striving to be better and continued fighting.
Dwayne Hardt Tien still being underrated even after training while Yamcha who doesn’t train still underrated but if Yamcha were to train someday which I doubt so, he will be more popular than Krillin.
Yamcha, the joke character
More like the mistreated character. Toriyama progressively destroyed his character until he ended him in the Cell arc. Yamcha was made "the cheater" of his relationship, even though Bulma has shown onscreen that she is the more likely to cheat of the two. She fell for Jackie Chun, Commander Blue, Zarbon, and Goku, while being with Yamcha. "The forgotten character" label has better candidates. Launch disappeared but she never was a character to begin with, Chiaotzu never contributed anything but it seems intentional Toriyama left out Chiaotzu because he didn't want to draw him.
@@Juan-zs6jt Its a shame how Toriyama treated Yamcha.
He was always a joke/humiliated character, but Bulma dumping him for Vegeta was simply the final nail in the coffin.
6:52 I cannot look at that face without thinking "just according to cake"
If goku was overconfident he wouldn’t run from kid buus planet destroying attack
I'm not sure this is a good argument, it's possible to be overconfident in general and still at times recognize your limits. You could be overconfident in your ability at basketball and not think you're better than Michael Jordan or something.
I freaking love you man. It's like you're putting my thoughts and opinions about dragonball and it's universe into logical words with source material. Thank you and keep it up!
U dumb 💀
Mr. Puppet what is your problem, and who hurt you?
@@Chip88898 My ass
@@Chip88898 Fuck you! ^_^
This is one of my favourite series on CZcams, i love seeing a different side or a different perspective on
my favourite characters, thank you Mark
So happy to see these back. The anatomy of anime is an awesome series, using characters we love as a way to discuss character development and storytelling techniques.
1:20 This is literally the best thing I have ever seen in my own 2 eyes
What rock song is that anyways?
Once again, another great video Mark! You seem like the only person that actually understands Goku's character, which is great for me because now instead of explaining the same shit everytime I say "Goku is my favorite character in Dragon Ball" I can just direct them to your channel
You know I really wish Toei or Akira watched your videos. I’m sure if they did they could make a really good Dragon Ball series.
Watching you show the pages of the manga really just makes me want to go buy it and read it. It's so cool seeing the panels that shots in the show were derived from.
Short answer, Goku likes pushing himself, he isnt overconfident
"Gohan~ We both know I don't know what that word means."
“I love dragon ball, dragon ball Z, and dragon ball super” -Mark
Dragon ball Gt: Am I a joke to you 😢
Dont worry about it Mark: yes you are
Yes
Yeah pretty much
You aren't thinking of this in cultural context, overconfidence in Japan is expressed differently than here in the US. Just goku saying something like "I'm going to beat your freeza" would be viewed as hubris.
But he is referring to the English dub in the video. So it would be translated to something other than that, as to reflect the same meaning between cultural divides.
@@Spiarmf the english dub and all dubs for that matter can't be taken even contextually as what is in the source material. A lot of times they cut things down to match the mouth movements.
@@Spiarmf the dub is a translation is it not?
This channel is pure gold and criminally underrated.
my favorite thing about the thumbnails are how the first Goku one now looks like it's looking at the last Goku one and vice versa, and that's pretty cool
Nice Video! Can't wait to see what you make in the new year!
Hey mark just want to let you know I’m watching this at 3:28 am and really appreciate the hard work and enjoyment that you find in your craft. Your videos itch a certain spot that no other content creator scratches. Keep up the great content and keep enjoying what you do.
Remember that time Krillin threw a rock and hit Super Sayian Goku in the head? I don't care if it was filler. It was great
Tis a most epic moment..and the fact SSJ Goku felt it! 😂😂😂
@@jonathanwilson1539 well he probably was at less than base of his power💀
@@jjuchii probably! 😂😂
When was this?
Rk9 it was during the days leading up to the cell games
10 seconds in and the video has covered everything
All of your videos are top tier man. Keep it up super pro. I really appreciate these dragon ball videos.
Mark, I’ve been watching your videos for the better half of a year now. And I must say, I’ve become a more cognizant writer as a result. I would be remiss if I did not express my gratitude for these videos because by you using Dragonball, it gives me a frame of reference for more nuanced aspects in plot and story telling! Thank you, Mark, for analyzing and sashimi-ing my favorite anime so that I might better refine my skills as a writer, and captivate my audience with genuine and complete trains of thought! Much love man!
Sounds to me like this is less of a misunderstanding of goku and more of a misunderstanding of the word “overconfident”
you know.. the reason why the OG super saiyan is my favorite transformation of the series is because goku for the first time fights a opponent that not only has brought him to a desperate point where there are literally no other choices(ALSO doing it gradually by giving you the feeling that MAYBE the spirit bomb or the kaioken x 20 could beat him) but it also crushes goku's perspective on what a fight should be like, goku's anger wasnt just krillin's death, is the frustation that freezer slowly develop in him seeing how far freezer could torture not only him but everyone he care, goku knew freezer was enjoying it, but most importantly, goku knew he couldnt do anything about it, thus his mind breaks through the rage, frustation and desperation, THAT is what i feel the super saiyan should represent, or at least what the original was, a simbolism of the rage, from a naive kind-hearted man to a cold furious man who almost threatened his own son into killing him if he doesnt go away, and EVEN in that state, goku's heart couldnt just kill the bastard, but he partly let it live, because he knew that he will be in eternal shame knowing that the thing that defeated him, was in fact the thing that he always feared.
A super saiyan
You’re right about all that, except it wasn’t the *first* first time an opponent had brought him to that desperation point.
Demon King Piccolo was the *first* first time.
I’ve really loved your channel - thank you for this!
Another amazing video. Thank you for expanding upon the misunderstood Goku character video. I referred to that video over and over again when I try to explain to people how Goku comes from a pure place so thank you for making that. Very well worth watching.
Roshi: There will always be a more powerful for.
Goku: How do you know?
Roshi: This is a shonen story. The enemies always get stronger. You'll have to constantly gain power to overcome them.
1:19 - 1:28
This little segment of Goku with Little Vs MK theme was orgasmic.
Have you, and your editor ever considered making AMVs?
That probally made his editor
+1 !
Would be great to have a full version of it !
Great year Mark! Your videos help me be a better writer. And my D&D players thank you too!
Hey great video, I agree that alot of people get Goku characteristics wrong at times. You should make a video on more of Goku being confidence and his mindset. That would be a great character study and also how you can apply the lessons of confidence from Goku to one's own life. Keep making great videos man!
Can we take a moment to appreciate how hype that Goku edit was at 1:20! Reminds me of the good ol’ dbz amv days
Dude i know this has been two years but do you perhaps know the name of the song used?
Goku definitely has a few more instances of overconfidence. He was cocky when he fought Popo in the King Piccolo arc and got his ass handed to him. He flat out states that Kaio's training made him cocky in his speech to Krillin at the end of the Saiyan arc. BoG also portrays him as cocky when he fights Beerus in ssj3. There's an instance for every era of the series.
Not saying that any of them make Goku an overconfident character, just that there are plenty of moments where hes developed as one(usually to learn a lesson after, but still).
I specifically say Adult Goku a number of times in the video. There are plenty of instances when we was a child where he wasn't overconfident that I didn't point to because he was still a kid.
@@TotallyNotMark oh, my bad. I was a bit confused since you referenced master Roshi's teachings in the video influencing his motives, so I thought you meant any moment from that point onward.
That Battle of Gods moment was particulary weird In Goku's part,wich I belive he doesn't do In Super.
@@TotallyNotMark Didn't two of his examples talk about Goku as an adult? What he said to Krillin, and the way he was portrayed against Beerus as SSj3?
@@codycartwright6998 @Dr_Rota Against Beerus, he wasn't so much overconfident, he was more-so allowing Beerus a chance to decide which form was more of his level.
Goku was confident that SSJ3 is a powerful form, but he couldn't sense Beerus's Ki.
"If you'd like, I can dial it back to 2 for you."
It's more of Goku giving his opponent a chance to offer a fair fight than anything else.
As for the Saiyan Arc, Goku wasn't overconfident to the point of underestimating Vegeta. It was a case of underestimating his own resilience.
He already knew his Kaio-Ken multiplier was more powerful than Vegeta.
He wasn't cocky because he KNEW he could overpower Vegeta. But it was overconfidence (cockiness) in his own durability, because he even
states that he didn't think the repercussions of Kaio-Ken would've been that painful.
Very nice presentation, that's why I subscribed!!
TNM, please don’t change. I look forward to EVERY video you post. You are doing a magnificent job.
"After Resurrection F concluded, Goku's shortcomings from that story suddenly disappear, never to be seen again"
*First Episode of ToP*: Goku get's scarred from a bullet for letting his guard down.
*Also Goku*: (Manga) Getting bodied by Toppo for letting his guard down.
*Also Also Goku*: Getting incapacitated by Merus for letting guard down.
*Also Also Also Goku*:...idk
Goku isn’t overconfident that is just a fan’s interpretation of him.
@@secoTheSonicFan nah super made him stupid so they could have more humorous moments but hes a genius when it comes to fighting
Dumber and dumber...... Really???
@@secoTheSonicFan yo mom
Congrats on 300k!
Awesome Vid
I think the series ate that Whis comment when Goku went to Meerus for mastery, a notion that made Whis curious and with Goku accepting Meerus philosophy to master UI. Seems you hit the nail on the head with where they were going.
Anyway a major fan of Goku and happy that someone puts in to words what a lot of us feel. It seems the new age obsession with anti-heroes always has to put a shadow on these types of characters.
At the beginning I disagreed with you, but you made good arguments and convinced me.
Honestly this is just amazing I am learning more and more about characters that I thought I fully knew
9:17 bro this is why I love your channel little things like this are just hilarious
The Cell incident is interesting because Goku's ability to know his son's true limits is just a testament to his genius as a fighter. Unfortunately, it also displays how he has extreme difficulty communicating with his son (Unlike Piccolo, Gohan's real moral support). To be able to depict dual sides of Goku's character with just one decision is really amazing writing in my opinion.
“I love Dragon Ball, Dragon ball Z, and even Dragon ball super” lol, I noticed you left out Dragon Ball GT (yes I know it’s not cannon, just thought it was funny)
He hates GT :(
I think Whis is Overconfident in his assessment of Goku.
Love the videos!
Goku’s name means something like “aware of emptiness/ knowledge of the heavens” and as a character represents Taoist enlightenment. Naivety is his therefore his biggest weakness and I definitely agree there.
But Whis saying that, is just Whis being wrong (perhaps intentional) to make a point to Goku in a way that others beat around the bush about or get so blunt he ignores it. The UI character development you’re looking for, happens around him- as he represents the enlightenment of wu wei.
Awesome video man
Totally Not Mark: I love Dragonball, Dragonball z and even Dragonball Super
Dragonball GT: am i a joke to you?
Yes. GT is joke. Is all the screamy and fighty with no humor or good story or growth.
@@SilverwingStudios i found gt more enjoyable because there aren't gods that hold goku's hands for the entire series, and it's dark theme and the baby arc and the shadow dragons arcs were good.
@@ali-kun7038 As someone who liked the original Dragon Ball far better than Z (Yes, I'm that old) the complete lack of humor in GT made it feel very stale. The entire series felt like the end of the Freeza arc.
......yes
Totally Not Mark: Yes, you are.
4:13 Yeah, just stop right there. All these people who don't know Goku's character didn't watch a single episode of Dragon ball.
Excellent as always Mark! Love the deep dives on the characters and story. Yeah I never thought of Goku as overconfident - but that is basically Vegeta in a nutshell! I also think Goku was incredibly obnoxious through Super, it felt like all of his character progression just got erased.
Awesome as always
If I had to take a guess, the 'over confidence' aspect that Whis points out is more that when Goku believes he has the advantage, he gets too lax and can drop his guard. An example would be Goku giving energy to Frieza only to then almost get backstabbed, but that time he was able to catch it. The obvious reason for Whis pointing that out of course was to setup/foreshadow when Goku would later get shot by Frieza's minion in Resurrection F, where Goku _was_ overconfident and dropped his guard.
Also I guess one way to look at it is that _at that point in time_ Goku was overconfident in himself to keep improving and reaching new heights of power. He was coming off of picking a fight with his universe's God of Destruction and he managed to unlock the power of Super Saiyan God. Not only that, but he was able to integrate SSG into his own base ki through his fight with Beerus to where he got an overall power boost and would later be able to invoke God form on demand. So it's basically Goku being overconfident that if he's pushed enough, he can overcome all odds, and he selfishly seeks out opponents who keep pushing him in that nature. That's a big aspect of Goku's character in Super as he would put his entire universe in danger for the sake of seeking out greater fights and pushing himself to greater heights.
Whis wasn't giving some overall historical criticism, he was pointing out a flaw based off of how Goku's behaved since Battle of the Gods. And it did become a huge issue as it served as the catalyst for the Universe Survival arc.
Goku has Overconfident moments but as a whole Goku isn’t an overconfident character
Actually, if I can add to this argument, I feel like you can make a case for Gohan being an overconfident character. Once when he battled Cell and wouldn't finish him off because he was convinced that he couldn't do anything, and the second time when he fought Super Buu and acted like a cocky douche because he was doped up on Mystic Kai energy and thought himself as too strong for him... again.
Gotenks is also overconfident now that I think about it...
Yeah gohan whenever he gets a power gets completely overwhelmed by his own power and causes something bad to happen, goku having to sacrifice himself for earth and gotenks and piccolo getting absorbed
In the sense of Trunks and Goten and of course, Gotenks, I blame their age and immaturity for their overconfidence. They underestimated their opponent. It's like how Goku, when first meeting Mr. Popo, underestimated him and was overconfident then.
You should know, these videos are the shit. And your character analysis vids are top notch. The references to other books about character building. Or references to the series itself. It’s super good, pls make more content, I will watch it
Keep these up. Only reason I regularly use CZcams nowadays
Mark when discussing about whis: he doesn't make goku overcome his overconfidence
Mark's video title: Goku Isn't overconfident
Me: Confused screaming
I feel like you kinda missed the point of Whis' assesment. He wasn't sserting that Goku was overconfident, rather that Goku tends to lower his guard when he's confident that the fights over - and it usually comes back to bite him in the ass. Against Freeza, Against Vegeta, Buu. Plenty of good examples to draw from.
That's called naivety and humility, not being confident that the fight is over.
Accept, that wasn't what Whis was implying when he explained Goku's lack of guard. The statement in which he made, and how he explained, at the moment he made it makes it seem that Goku's guard is down when he's laxed, and deems it overconfident. That he has to be on guard all the time without coming off as smug about his fighting ability and power.
They were no longer training, and Goku doesn't see Whis as a threat, therefore has no reason to keep his guard up. And that piece of writing is inaccurate about Goku's personality, or Whis' assessment thereof.
@@Kal824 I imagine it was just a poor choice of words on the English localization's part. I think Whis's assessment is still spot on about him being too lax, but at the time of writing that line they mistook what "overconfidence" meant on a broader scale, throwing that in the fill time/match the lip synching.
I think that line was less of an inconsistency, and more just an oopsie on Funimation's behalf-- but that may just be me.
I love that you play the original DBZ soundtrack, and not that hot garbage that is Falcouner's score. Subscribed!
I maybe 2 years late to this amazing video you put together but I 100% agree with you about Goku's character. I never understood how people could say he's overconfident and have so many negative views about him when it's actually the complete opposite. Yes more of the Overconfident goes to Vegeta because he shows that so many times from DBZ to DBS and always gets his ass kick because of that trait. And I was really excited that you brought up points from the Frieza saga and Dragon Ball. Because to this day I still believe that not many people watch Dragon Ball to understood how Goku character really is and how he came to be through out the other shows because that is where his character development and journey really began. And yes it is even more sad that the actually creator forgets how Goku character is suppose to be but then again he always keeps forgetting shit. But once again thanks for the video.