LADIES' QUADS: Rescoring/Analysis (Alysa Liu, Alexandra Trusova, Kamila Valieva, Anna Shcherbakova)
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- čas přidán 30. 09. 2019
- The month of September marked a huge milestone in ladies' skating: Alexandra Trusova earned a world record for her free skate and total score, and more ladies are attempting quads!
Alysa Liu (Алиса Лю), Anna Shcherbakova (А́нна Щербако́ва), and Alexandra Trusova (Александра Трусова) all landed ratified Quad Lutzes. Alexandra Trusova and Kamila Valieva (Камила Валиева) landed Quad Toeloops.
Music: Firebird by Stravinsky
Events Featured: JGP Courchevel, JGP Chelyabinsk, Nepela Memorial/Ondrej Nepela Trophy, JGP Lake Placid, Lombardia Trophy.
Coaches of note: Eteri Tutberidze (Этери Тутберидзе)
#alysaliu #alexandratrusova #kamilavalieva - Sport
I think if the judges continue to 'reward' these quads that are full of errors according to their scoring system, then YES is the answer to your question. The coming generations will look at the current ladies doing these quads and follow their footsteps because it shows in the results that this is what the judges want.
AllAboutThat Stuff I think that Trusovas 4T is nor that bad an Kamilas quads are stunning in the training! But I have to say that you're right, the majority of quads are technically a disaster
I agree. These quad jumps are full of errors: an inside edge on the lutz takeoff, blade assisted jumps, under rotated, etc. I know I’m not the only one that wishes the ISU would rate skaters by their own rules. I mean what do they have them for?
The majority are not even quads...so therein lies the first problem
@@warren1564 amazing that double standards when it’s women jumping jumps usually performed by men or just when it’s Russian in general 🤦♀️ because funny but the flaws mentioned in the video (mentioned generously in general) are the flaws 90% of skaters have.
@@maouimaisnon2535 what? 🤔
Sasha and Kamila have the best quad toe
메뎁쉐르발리 you betcha!😁
인졍인졍
Alysa’s “quads” should never get more than 2 GOE. They look like triples since they get no height or distance. She also PR 180-270° since she has subpar technique. She actually had an outside edge though, so I’ll give her that. But her 3As and 4Lzs are under 80% of the time and DONT get called. Rip isu
Alyssa liu only gets like 2-2.5 revolutions in the air for her "quad Lutz" lol. Most people watching her videos can't tell if it's a triple or quad in real time because she gets so much of the revolutions on the ice from prerotation and underrotation
I thought it was a triple lutz when I first saw it !
Ioana B Even the judges did in one competition 😂 they fixed it after they watched the replay tho
On Alysa is actually more than 180 degrees prerotation bc she is still on the ice at the 1/2 mark
@B. Sahsa has 180 prerotation and thank God she doesn't rotate another 180 on her toepick on her 4Lz landing.
@@Redoaltor bullshit
Maria you clearly are under the fog as always.
@@Redoaltor You're just being mean.
No running edge, shaky landing, awful body position. But only russian girls got called out for that. SHOCKED...
Sasha is clearly the best out there. There are other great ladies jumpers too.
I think we should encourage the girls to do quads with quality, and when a skater can barely get a triple lutz right (correct edge, minimum pr) I absolutely do not think that skater should be thinking about a quad lutz. We should also encourage these girls to work on their overall skating, because the jumps souldn't be the sole focus of the sport (sasha is the one that needs this the most and yet her team is only concerned with how many quads she can do). At the end of the day I think that these ladies will most likely lose some of their quads once they start getting older and their bodies change, the only ones that look sustainable in the long run are kamila's and sasha's quad toes.
IMO the best way to encourage overall skating skills is to to revise the base values for the elements. When a spin has a BV of 3.5 and a quad has a BV of 10+, skaters are going focus on quads; that's just a fact. I for one would like to see more BV for the step sequence.
@@fazdoll I agree, but I also think that judges should starting judging these quad jumps fairly. If these ladies were being punished for their poor technique (which most of them have), then they wouldn't be as encouraged to do them. Most of these have a lot of PR, full blade assitance, poor takeoff and tend to be UR so why are some of them getting plus 4? it's ridiculous
The Russians are known for poor edges.
I agree. It’s up to the ISU to start judging these jumps fairly and by the rules. However, I think only thing that will put an end to quad mania is the ISU banning them from ladies skating. They are supposed to look out for the skaters aren’t they? Also if they upped the age limit to 17 or 18 for senior level competitions it would also end this trend. As skaters get older their center of gravity changes and thus quads may not be possible for them any longer. Besides it’s called ladies figure skating, not teenage jumper skating.
@@CMny1905 Are you crazy, morons? Absolutely far from sports people have decided that they can "make fate"? I wish I could see how ridiculous you look on skates. Foolish armchair critics.
Is Anna’s quad take offs body position strange? I’ve noticed it last year. She tend to bend her upper body down close to 70~90 degress and try to use the power of hip to muscled the take off. Compare to the isu demo/ Mikhail and Boyang’s quad lutz take offs, Anna seems to bend her upper body lower, the others are like leaning forward 30~45 degrees.
Is it ok to take off like Anna did? Isn’t jumps depend more on the leg’s power during take offs? I’m worry that it maybe not good for her hip in the long term.
Sasha by far has the best ones. Then maybe Kamila. But she tend to land on a flat or even inside edge which can cause injury even in a double jump so coming from that far up is terrifying. She also cant seem to do a combo properly. Every combo she does that weird power pull between jumps and it disrupts the flow every time.
Anna shouldn't be doing a quad Lz IMO because she uses way too much blade assist even in her 3Lz, Sahas can have blade assist at times too but doesn't seem nearly as bad, and Alyssa URs but at least has some toe pick unlike Anna. It's her 3A that's scary because she almost stops and then launches into it.
Trusova is probably the best lady with quads atm and that’s worrying. Alyssa is probably the worst
Kamila has the best quad.
How so?
Kamilla has the best 4T in my opinion. Better take off
Trusova is Quad 👸🏼
Is she really though? It took her over a season to land one. It took Kamlia and Alyssa a single competition.
Well, you know, it is easier to follow the already beaten path...
Тулуп приемлем у Саши, а лутц с ошибками
@@nataliaeskova533 у анны тоже ошибки
@@tubdhtubdhftubh3 согласна, с ребром. И неясное, и неправильное и преротейшн ( хотя за него не наказывают)
Imo Trusova and Valieva do have quads even though there are some technique issues, but Liu and Scherbakova's are cheated. However they are young and have time to improve.
Definitely! I hope that as their skating matures they will evaluate their technique and continue to grow stronger :)
And you can clearly see that trusova is trying to improve her technique
Tbh any knowledgeable figure skating fans can judge better than those so called "judges".
Brian Cao judging is difficult, much different when it has to be judge instantly.
You should apply to be a judge.
Valieva's quad toe is insane, the height, distance and the PR!! [Its around 122º - 135º degrees (all the 3 jumps, different PR's)] but she uses full blade instead of toe pick, I hope she gets stronger to be able to use the pick, even its a low pick. I do think her weight is one of the reasons why she gets so high in the air, tho. Its a lot impressive but also scary. I'd put her to share the first place with Trusova. Speaking of her, I still think Trusova has very nice quad toe, she does not have the best entry, but she does get a huge height and distance, she also has less than 180° degrees of PR, its usually around 165º and well, as for the Lutz, man, this jump would be wild if she was taught good tech. Even if she had around 90°, it would be a lot better, and I think she wouldn't use full blade assistance. I'm not sure which I would put in second and third places, Alysa has a deep outside edge and Anna has either flat or very slighty inside edge. Anna gets higher in air, both of them have good body positions as well as excessive PR. Alysa is being pushed to do this jump a few months, maybe she will get a higher jump with time.
I definitely agree we should encourage these girls, being taught bad technique is not a skaters fault, its harder to performe and can lead to a lot of injuries. Its not to encourage bad tech, its to not belittle them for it. I wish they had someone to help them fix their technique, and still do hope they will take their time and stay healthy.
Nice to see a respectful and nice video on this subject.
Honestly when it comes to these skaters rotations...their underrotations are fine when you remember its roughly 90 degrees or less for toe jumps and roughly 120 degrees or less for edge jumps. Its the prerotations which are the issue.
In my opinion, the ISU needs to implement something so excessive prerotation is deducted or results in downgrades. Downgrades from quads to triples or triples to doubles, which only seems to happen when the jump is badly underrotated, not badly prerotated. The judges should be able to look at take offs in slow mo like they can with landings. Pre rotation is a required thing for jumps, even the best jumpers ever have a slight amount however its getting too much now. So much so that it makes you question whether there really are true triples or true quads.
I mean...if the ISU and judges did their job, this declining in skaters quality of jumps wouldnt be happening. I mean these skaters do this for a living and cant even get true real feedback in their scores. They really are not at fault here especially since they are so young. They are so talented and have so much room to grow yet nobody seems to show or tell them where they need to grow. They'd actually have a real reason to fix these but they dont since judges dont deduct them and arent consistent with scoring.
C'est la oiseau. I'm just trying to be informative, but saying rules like this should be implemented is extremely arrogant. Pre rotation is extremely difficult to fix and whether someone pre rotates or not is engrained in a skater technique as soon as they start learning jumps. Saying pre rotation should be penalised is like saying left handed people should be penalised, as in; many skaters start to pre rotate as it is easier and more natural than the true technique, and though coaches try to fix it, there is only so much a 5 year old can take in. What I'm trying to say is pre rotation is not the skaters fault and though they can attempt to fix it it will almost never be fully fixed.
@@CCHLV._. if you say it like that then skaters with less prerotation should be awarded more at the very least. But judges just dont even care. Technical panel is a load of bullshit.
@@CCHLV._. I do see where you are coming from, however take a look at my final paragraph. This is no where near the skaters fault as I already explained. I'm talking many MANY years ago here...but if ISU penalized excessive pre rotation then we wouldnt be in the state we are in. If a skater has no outside edge on a lutz...its not classed as a lutz and is rightfully deducted for it...why shouldnt that happen with rotations? Back in the older days of figure skating there was a huge push in skaters finally achieving triples and eventually quads in mens...now we're going backwards and reverting back to just doubles and triples and this has been happening over MANY years, not just suddenly now! The ISU have brought this apon themselves by not finding a way to penalize them sooner, they started to with underrotations before they got too bad but never did with prerotations. If they had sorted this out years ago when very few skaters did this...they wouldnt have such a mess now with so many doing it.
Think of it like this...you have a skater with bad pre rotations and is legit not even doing real triples. The judges call them out and are losing points. The coach and skater see this and find a way to fix it. Coaches are proffesionals here and by seeking help with other preoffesionals in different parts of skating, which is what they do what with their connections, they analyse the jumps that are pre rotated and come up with a solution when they find the source of the problem.
Just looking at the skaters pre rotating too much these days...you can tell its due to lack of strength or lack of precission. If you have good strength in your legs and core then you can lift yourself in the air with that strength before you start pre rotating too much. They need the strength to have the ability to lift into the air earlyier than what they are currently doing. And for some its just a case of precission and timing of when the toe pick goes into the ice. For some, they just need to have better reflexes and need practise more off ice and in a harness. Looking at it scientifically, these skaters arent converting their kinetic energy efficiently or quick enough from one leg to the other. The speed they pick up before executing the jump isnt transfered over to the take off leg as efficiently since they take so long taking off. When they pre rotate they're losing the speed and energy they just picked up from moving.
Back to the example I was setting up though, it sounds simple but the only real way to fix most pre rotated jumps is through starting again and practising. Forgetting everything you once knew and starting with a clean slate. Go back to singles and work your way up once you excute a single clean...then a double clean...and so on. Maybe not as extreme but maybe just practise your doubles and triples off ice for a while. Practise with a harness on ice as much as you can taking off quicker than you would normally. Start in harness with singles very slowly and get a feel for what its like and what must be done to not pre rotate...and just practise until it becomes muscle memory.
From my little experience with figure skating, its all about strength and timing, you need to be stronger and have better reflexes to get it done. And this can be achieved by practising!
Its harder when you have your career happening around you which is why I WISH coaches payed more attention to skaters during their toddler younger years so that any bad habits dont become muscle memory and instead have the right things as muscle memory, its harder to fix when your older and have things going on. But it can be done by simply taking some steps back. Find out WHY this problem is happening (legs strength, poor timing, body position, reflexes) and strike it there. They can do it...its just they dont need to cause judges dont care about quality anymore OR they suddenly do but only on certain skaters.
Sorry for the long reply, but there IS a way as Ive probablly poorly tried to explain. Find out WHY you are pre rotating and address it with going back to basics.
C'est la oiseau I completely get where you are coming from and I think everyone can agree that the judges are flawed, I think the system is good but it is not being utilised rightly. About strength, (coming from my view as a figure skater) I think the sport has evolved to have prerotation. When you compare technique from pre IJS to now it is clear that jumps have (in general) gotten smaller, with less height but quicker rotation.
With this, a change in stature has occurred, giving rise to prerotation; skaters, especially ladies, have become less "stocky" and become more slender. You can also compare air position where leg wraps where very common pre IJS, compared to the current, extremely tight air position.
What I'm trying to say is that prerotation has become synonymous with jumps and is now probably the more prolific technique. Of course excessive prerotation is a problem but more harm will be done trying to penalise it than letting it be part of the sport. We should be focusing more on correct jump edges and better skating skills instead of prerotation as the drive for more difficult jumps is fuelled by the reward that ensues.
I think the more important problem is jump edges, under rotations and the judges rewarding high technicality with high PCS. I really don't think there is a good solution for combating pre rotation and the underlying problem to all of this is the flawed judges. If jumps are given correct goe and are called correctly, and performance is justly rewarded, I think we would see a better sport.
@@CCHLV._. I really agree and see your veiw. Honestly there is alot of things that the judges and ISU need to work on, I'm just worried if its already too late since attendance and overall viewership and interest in figure skating has decreased abit in recent years. I'm really grateful to hear another side of the arguement though and I'm glad to see your insight.
the fact a judge gave a goe of -4 to a fall shows they aren't even trying to hide the goe inflation on quads
Kihira got a -4 in the 3A fall and no one said a thing, is she inflated too?
@@Ramsesos Yes...dont see why you're asking. They commentor mentioned quads specifically cause thats the topic of this video
It's possible to win back other points in goe despite a fall, which is probably how that one judge figured it.
Actually, it is not in any handbook that a fall must be -5. It says it has to reflect both positive and negative goe, and in the case of a fall or serius mistake the positive goe cant be over +2, which means a fall can be just -3, and I've seen it, I dont remember if it was to Maia or Kamila but one of them has -3 and some -4 on a fall in the first JGP. For me a fall must always be -5 because landing is what determines if an element is done or not. But technically it is not against their own rules.
Sascha is a true Olympic champion. Her 4 lutz is my favourite among all scaters. Lets do quints Sascha, i cheer for you
Just because you have a good lutz and a quad lutz doesn’t automatically make you an Olympic champion
She fucked up every jump except Salchow and her artistry is non existent 😆 real champion with proper scoring should be Kaori since she's only going wrong with lutz lol
Non of tutberidze girls has a jumping technique (and with 3/4-full rotation they're not even quads 😆) Welcome to the era of 4k and slow motion
@@zonedutopia No fr I love Sasha, but none of the Eteri girls except Aliona has an at least decent technique
@@MelonLordits not even good ,she does quad flutz mostly with blade assistance and excessive pr
How its good? Like its not that pretty or have good technique either, lets ignore fact that she does lutz with flat edge sometimes , she also has blade assistance and excessive prerotation
I will definitely go with Kamila as my fav and Sasha. I love Sherbakova and Liu but their quads... Best wishes to all of these amazing girls
This sport is dying slowly but surely. I like Kamila's quads the best, they are not heavily prerotated and have good height. Anna's also looks pleasant to eye in air but are very flawed.
Anna looks so great in the air, but her takeoff drives me crazy!
how is it dying i don't get it?
@@alexgerdt2278 I don't know that I agree that it's dying, but people are upset with wonky judging that doesn't have a consistent or accountable method of judging PCS and GOE. These skaters doing iffy quads are getting higher GOE than skaters doing good clean triples. In my opinion, the price of doing these high-difficulty, high-return elements is that it comes out of your transitions, composition, interpretation, and /or GOE, because you spend so much time setting up and focusing on the element. Yet their PCS doesn't reflect that, as though they're getting a "well those were all good, considering the difficulty of the elements." Skaters with low tech, high GOE/PCS don't get a boost to their base value just because their skating is good. Therefore, skaters with high base value shouldn't be getting a boost to their GOE/PCS. The quad jumpers are winning in landslide victories where - they earned the victory, but not the landslide, you know what I mean? This pushes high GOE/PCS skaters out of the competition and destroys the artistic/performance aspect that most casual fans were drawn in by in the first place. If the sport fails to draw in casual fans, it doesn't bode well for the life of the sport. But it's too early to tell, in my opinion.
Iris Excellent analysis. Excellent excellent analysis. Honestly they’re squeezing what regular fans love about the sport in the first place. Also, there are skaters who have great technique like Elizaveta that are being pushed down by other skaters who have flawed technique but high technical content. What’s the point then if they can’t even master the basics?
anna’s case is truly a shame, she has an incredible in-air position and the rotation looks effortless, if only she didn’t go to tutberidze
I love the quad toes. And the height Kamila and Sasha get on them are impressive!!!
All the best to all of them.
I’ve found this gem of a video kinda late:( quite informative and it interests me to see other people’s analysis! Hope you’ll do another video like this someday:D❤️
To answer your questions: Trusova's and Valieva's have the best 4T. No one has a good 4 Lz. I would have rated the quads somewhere between you and the judges. Yes, quads will be needed to be competitive, at least for the next few years. Kostornaia can't get away with being beautiful anymore, not against Trusova. Medvedeva needs to forget about the podium altogether.
As does Zagitova....and it's sad.
fazdoll Idiot.
@@erinm9568 but at least Alina won the Olympics and everything nobody can erase that but with these other skaters who will win the Olympics??
@@abdakhatoon9514 Excellent question. Will there even BE an Olympics. Sasha is an excellent jumper but is seriously lacking in artistry. Also, the young lady from the United States is adding to her arsenal. I really hope they do have the Olympics...no matter who the winner is, I imagine it will be highly competitive.
@@erinm9568 ikr
I'm just happy that Alina has nothing left to prove now
She will always be the Olympic Champion
It's Medvedeva I feel really sad for
For me the best Is sasha
The Toe of the last skater is really well done. I hope this enormous amounts of impact not make her career too short. And sasha S is great too!
For me Alysa looks clearly a triple.
Alysa stops and just jumps up. If you compare it with Sasha's jumps, then it can not be equally called quads.
Can I please check what qualifications do you have or technical training? Thank you
Can anyone please tell me/point me the "inside edge" landing of Kamila. I am not an expert but I read that a lot on comments. Thankss
By far Valievas 4T is the best, and really that looks like a quad, Sasha 4T is good too.... and YES RIGHT NOW IS NECESSARY AND WILL BE NECESSARY IN LADIES, 3A OR QUADS... if you dont have any of these, it will be very hard compete, really only 1 ladies can compete without 3A or quads and is Zagitova ((her GOES AND PCS are the highest of the ladies))
I don't get why you put Kamila's 4T as UR. It's less than 90 degrees UR, so it's clean. In fact, I think it's cleaner than Sasha's 4T.
sasha is the quad queen no doubt
A fall in the FS is not automatically GOE -5. You should apply GOE -5, but you can still award positive features, making it now -5 automatically. It is true tho, that many (if not all) jumps that end in fall don't get any positive features, thus getting GOE -5
Fall is not automatically -5 goe, if jump have some positive aspects it can be -4
I mean yeah they're inflated. But this isn't just quads. It's the same for most ladies' triples. That poor take off apples to all toe jumps of all the ladies, past and present, with the exception of very few. The entire Olympic podium had it. So I don't think it's fair to deduct for poor takeoff only on quads - triples and doubles too.
That's very true! I've noticed this trend even with the Junior Grand Prix triples, so it will be interesting to see how the scoring of triples fares in seniors. Thanks for your comment!
@@tripleflutz3518 It will be the same. All the current senior ladies' triples have been PR and blade assist for a very long time. Alina, Evgenia, Kaetlyn, Satoko, Gabby, etc. all use the same technique and were not penalized. Everyone except Rika and Liza (and before Sotskova, Tsurskaya too).
Sasha 😍😍👍
unlike men's, i don't think women's is at the point yet where you NEED to have a quad to win. Women's is really really competitive but taking an example of Kostornaia who won gold despite not having a quad. While Trusova has a lot of strength and stamina, i find Kostornaia skating really beautiful and graceful. Scherbakova has a good balance between jumping and artistic skills and Trusova is a jumping machine
does kamila has toe pick assistance? bc i dont see it
5:35 , 6:15 , you don't see it ? Or what do you mean exactly ?
Not a fan of the quads. A beautiful triple without the long set up and imaginative artistry is much better. All the jumps take away from the beauty of figure skating.
Miss the Yuna Kim era 😢
Самые читерские прыжочки у Алисы Лю
Alex trusova is my little queen, so many years ive been waiting for a skater that is a combination of beauty,cuteness, might,technic ..all in one.
Golden haired, blue eyed, athletic,pridefull ...thas all about her.
She's the next legendary champion .
I’m quite late with this comment but I’m seriously wondering what is meant by “effortless throughout.” I feel like I’m the only one who hates Scherbakova’s entries into her jumps because she looks like she’s trying to launch herself into them, like she’s clearly too small to be doing those big jumps and she’s forcing herself into them. And Trusova’s are clean but they just look so messy to me. Am I being too harsh??
I also find Shcherbakova's entries ugly and not "effortless". Certainly not deserving of high GOE. She leans forward very deep right before the start of the jump and then hammer-toes (or mule-kicks) herself into her toe-jumps, then puts her entire blade on the ice instead of just her toe while at the same rotating her body already way before the actual jump starts. It does seem forced, much like Medvedeva's constant muscling into her jumps. Trusova doesn't make that forced impression as she is very athletic and seems to be made for jumping quads but her landings tend to be messy. Under Plushenko she has also much improved her toe-pick and pre-rotation for her lutz.
Yeah to me it looks like Alyssa also rocks back onto her R blade after she picks in, making it a slight loop entry. Not nearly as much as the Russians though
The sad thing with to much prerotation is that it's really common even with triples (flip and lutz).
Tbh, ALL of the 4Lz should be marked 4Lz
Under the rules, you can't deduct for poor take-off based on slo-mo. It has to be visible in real time. Not sure it is in most cases.
Kamila’s toe is gorgeous! Anna’s also look nice but cheated :/
Same video for 3A
Sasha is best!
Hold on there's a rule about long preparation? They never call that lol
Winter Olympics 2022 - No quads, no golds for the ladies ....
I think it’s wrong for a coach to be expecting 13 and 14 year olds to do quads. To much stress on the body at a young age. Yes ladies will need to do quads to be competitive, however this takes away from the overall sport of figure skating. Only those who can do a quality quad can win.
You’re allowed 180 degree prerotation and a quarter turn on the landing with no deductions. Calling out Alisa on both makes me doubt your credibility with me.
but they gave her extra points... One thing is not deducting, and another thing is to actually give extra points for that.
180 degree prerotation is considered a cheated takeoff for the lutz, flip and axel and is supposed to be downgraded.
In Alysa's case, she did the lutz so 180 PR is a negative.
The toeloop, salchow and loop all take off with 180 prerotation; that's normal and this is why they score lower than the other three jumps because they are easier and rotate less in the air.
Mario Bermejo I’d need to see where it’s written that different jumps allow for different amounts of pre-rotation.
quads already are necessary to be competitive. or a triple A
Quad?? Where??
up your a
Where is the 4S of Elisabet?
She hasn't landed one this September :)
@@tripleflutz3518 True. But when she land one, please, analysis😋
@@Galaclar And she was the first senior lady to land one.
Most of these quads are cheated on the takeoff. These girls are rotating between 180-225 degrees before they ever get all the way into the air. Kamila has the nicest looking quads but even she was 180+ degrees around before she got into the air. If under-rotations are penalized then pre-rotations need to be penalized as well. It's the exact same thing except it happens at the beginning of the jump instead of at the end. It's still cheating the rotation. That goes for triples too. This cheated technique is unfair to the skaters who have proper technique and complete the rotations in the air versus on the ice. They've added pre-rotation to the scoring requirements now but they are leaving it up to the judges to decide...which is beyond stupid as it should be the tech panel who decides if a jump is pre-rotated just as they decide if it's under-rotated. For every step forward the ISU takes they take 3 steps backwards. Smh.
I think the ISU recently changed the rules and now a pre-rotation is supposed to be -1 to -2.
@@vreedlak1833 True. Problem is the technical panel isn't calling it. It's supposed to be up to the judges to determine whether something is prerotated or not which is completely ridiculous. I hope they change that rule. It needs to be the technical panel's job as it's their responsibility to review jumps...
@@vreedlak1833 Not true. The rules don't penalize pre-rotations. The poor take-off rule is used mainly to penalize obvious forward take-offs, such as when a toe-loop actually becomes an axel in real time. None of these jumps fit in that category.
Although I love her skating, I do think Kamila takes a long time in prepping for her quad toe - which is a deduction.
thhough 90-180 degree PR in toe loop is okay, Valieva's quick take off is much better than Trusova's 180 degrees one.
One amazing thing when you’ve been in the skating fandom since a decent amount of time is day after day witnessing the double standard people (so called fans) are applying on Russian skaters, and just women that do « men tricks » in general. Because I’ll say it once and for all, and I’d like people to remember it, but :
NO NEED TO LOOK FOR THE 4 5 QUADS IN A SEASON TO BRING DOWN ONE RUSSIAN SKATER BAD TECHNIQUE, JUST LOOK AT THE OVERALL TRIPLE JUMP TECHNIQUE IN ALL THE WOMEN FIELD NOWADAYS.
Few, now that we’ve done this, what’s worst ? A common prerotated and underrotated triple flutz by a Japanese or a Belgian skater or a not so prerotated and fully rotated quad by one of the only bold skaters brave enough to take that risk ?
Almost 100% of the technique critique on social medias is about quads, as it just proves how people are unhealthily obsessed with them (and biased against Russians in general). But when you point out to them the same flaws on their favorite skater basic triple jumps in comparison, they suddenly bury their head in the sand. Yes people, you see flaws where you want to see it. Nobody criticize men’s flaws, nobody criticizes non Russian skaters flaws. And oh man there’s a lot to say.
my favourite quads are kamila’s. her technique is quite consistent, and her quads look so elegant and effortless and not just pure jumping when she does it. however, alysa liu’s quads look very stable and satisfying to watch. Alexandra’s are very technical and great
Too much Pre rotation is also under rotation although the landing is clean.
Лутц без преротейшена не бывает, почти у всех 180 градусов.
Until they can take off on the right edge and not pre-rotate their triples, I’m not interested in their “quads”
No one cares
A triple Lutz with Axel takeoff now called 4 Lutz, I suggest another name for it, maybe Trusova jump
I feel sorry for Kolyada, he took many years practising the authentic 4 Lutz and, considered for being one of the best 4 Lutzer in the world before Carmen Curse stroke and now he can't land any quad in the latest test skate
Trusova's lutz is not the worst of the bunch by a long shot
@@iris7484 But she is the first lady landing that "3.5 Lutz" and got positive GOE. A so-called Trusova Lutz is dedicated to her miracle works in figure skating
@@iris7484 Uno already had his 4 Flip with Rittberger pick aka The Uno Floop. We can't name 2 different jumps by the same name
@@shawnwoodward4522 damn, u right
@@shawnwoodward4522 yeah shoma's flip has serious prerotation, it's not even a flip anymore 😅
What is (ur) ?
It means underotation
THESE AMAZING WOMEN CREATING HISTORY AND JUMPING QUADS
it's necessary to penalize FAKE-QUADS,
only few quads should be rewarded / acknowledged
I don’t know why the people who make this type of video think prerotation is a bad thing, all skaters are being taught to do it, because you can’t rotate a jump without prerotation
Honestly, Kamila's 4T isn't very good. There's too much blade assistance and her air position can get plain terrifying. The only good ladies' quad right now is Sasha's 4T. I believe Rika can bring a good 4S later, too. Kamila is close to having a decent 4T but it needs more work, and we know Eteri doesn't tend to teach good picking technique for toe jumps so I'm not optimistic. I'm looking forward to more quads in ladies' but I wish they would be scored properly.
A person with Shoma Fucking Uno on userpic is trying to evaluate quality of someone else's quads and talks about picking technique. THE AUDACITY. Girl, girl it's still better than Uno's "quads".
you don’t even know how numbers work on GOE -5 means - half of the actual points of the jump oh god
I don't like this. They can do these "quads" when they are still children. And how about grown up women? Sorry, I rather watch Yuna or Carolina.
I think Quads will indeed become a "thing" you need in your program if you want to become competitive. And as history has already shown us, any sport will improve over time and expectations become higher. There is no point in saying that we should stop at quads because we believe that's the limit of the human body. I mean, when figure skating started becoming a thing, people probably couldn't even imagine that what these athletes are doing today is possible. Sports are supposed to evolve.
I also believe introducing new technologies into the judging system (like motion capture or artificial intelligence) in a more advanced way, could help overcome these problems. If the controversial judging (poor take offs and landings) are done by a software (assisted by a human) then maybe the judges would have more time to judge artistic skills for example.
But that's just my opinion.
Kamila's toe wasn't UR
.
I like Kamila's and Anna's quads because they are so graceful from beginning to end. They have shaky landings but my point is that once they improve their landings (and takeoffs) they will have awesome quads. I do not hate Sasha's quads because her's are actually very powerful. I simply prefer the more graceful jump. Figure skating is a competitive sport for sure but I don't think quads should ever be required in the ladies' events. I firmly belive that one should be trying to learn 3A before quads but that's just me. Its also not all about the quads. The program itself also needs to be a clean. A lady with a clean program and no quads deserves a higher score than a lady with iffy quads, especially if the second skater has a messy program. But again, that's just me.
Yes , these quads should be downgraded, when pre rotation 180 and above, bad take off. And judge should score fairly on performance not on nationality.
eeeeeh anna’s flutz cannot be consider a 4lutz and moreover that hammer toe
Оооочень предвзято. Алиса делает прыжки намного хуже Ани, но ей он ставит GOE выше. Смеюсь.
Очень может быть, но Аня недокручивает четверть оборота все время, получается примерно 3, но оценки все равно как за четверной:/
Вот это действительно не понятно
И Алиса, и Аня имеют проблемы с ребром на лутце
Но теперь, я так понимаю, судьи игнорят тутберидзевских по этой части..
@@christyhap Аня ошибласт один раз в Китае и вы уже говорите так будто она с завидным постоянством так делает
@@user-ne6td7zp1t так и есть, сколько я наблюдаю за ней и не только за ней, все время внутреннее ребро
А вот как раз то в Китае, АХ, какие плохие судьи, посмели поставить ей восклицательный знак на её "коронном" прыжке!!
А я было подумала, наконец-то! Хоть кто-то это сделал, честно поставив оценку
И что
Российская федерация ФК подала жалобу!
И все
Прощайте объективные оценки в отношении team tutberidze
@@christyhap у нее хороший лутц, лучше чем у многих исполнительниц 3Lz
They should finally ban quads and you were being quite nice with some of the judging points as a lot of these skaters have full-bladed assist and pre-turn their bodies -> not good technique.
Yes I want to encourage these girls to be good skaters, but quads don't make a good skater.
She judged these girls so poorly, saying they had “shaken landing” just because it wasn’t “effortless” . I really hate it when people judge this even though they have no idea of what they are doing
oooh i like ur name!!! triple flutz!!! XD
yes they should be encouraged, but I see a lot of people calling '''x'' skater ''quad queen'' when the jumps are full of errors. we should encourage them to do better, judges too. Judges should do their jobs so the skaters can improve the quality of their quads (and triple too), but instead they love to reward a wrongly executed jump.
Valieva's are the only proper quads. Trusova's 4T is a toe-axel and takes off forward (you can see the right knee step up in real time)
I wouldn't say Sasha's toe is a toe axel, tho. Toe axel is releasing the rotation before your toe picks the ice, which she does not do. Her upper body is in the right position the moment her toe picks the ice, she does use her knee but its probably to get a higher height. Who was taught to do a toe axel, unfortunately, is Alysa. You can see the difference between their triple toes, Alysa releases the rotation (upper body) before the blade hits the ice, and when it does, she uses it to get a stronger jump. Trusova's entry is not the best one, but its not a toe axel either. Valieva's entry is better than hers, that's true.
yoshinawa You’re correct. A toe axel is when you turn your body on takeoff so you’re facing forward before you even pick in. I know this because I had a toe axel when I skated 😂 Trusova doesn’t face forward until after picking in, which is what is supposed to happen during a toe loop.
@@evanperilstein5308 What are you on about you can't turn forward before you pick! A toe axel is when you rotate on the picked toe taking off forward. That's why it's called a toe axel! Because it's essentially an axel done off the left toe pick instead of LFO edge
@@benbailey159bb No, a toe axel is facing forward the moment your blade picks the ice. What you said is called pre-rotation, a toe-loop can have up to 180° of pre-rotation, its normal and okay but beyond that is not. The loop and salchow both have a natural and NEEDED 170-180° of PR, yet neither of them is considered to be a loop axel or salchow axel, are they? The take-off is done backwards but leaving the ice completely is forwards. Toe loop is a tapping jump, the take-off is done the moment you pick your blade on the ice, which means, you pick while facing backwards? Your take-off is backwards. You pick while facing sideways/forwards? Your take-off is forward, hence why its a toe-axel. Leaving the ice is not the same as take-off.
@@nawa1038 A toe-axel is caused by failure to use the proper 'pole vault' style mechanism and as a result the right leg passes the left while the pick is still in the ice causing the skater to take off forward from the toe and be in the air by around 5/8. A toe axel is, by definition, unacceptably pre-rotated. It is also highlighted by an axel-type right knee step up which absolutely should not happen in a proper toe-loop
Well as a skating fan these Ladies does not impressed me neither those who does low quality jump. I think that the judges should revise their manuals for scoring low quality technique's shouldn't be awarded like this. I have been a fan but after kim yuna retirement honestly i want to see a good jumper, technique's, skills, emotion, and artistry. Some ladies are good but i hope in future there is someone whose worth to watch.
The best lutz are 1.trusova 2 Shecherbakova 3 liu
@Amanda Machado more like none of them are true quads, considering the prerotation and the landing, but hey, pro judges think they are clean quads, we amateur are the wrong ones. Lol.
@@yunilius7193 if trusova jumps are not quads, then 99% of the ladies doesn't even have triples, and 95% of quads in the mens field are not quads either. try to apply the same criteria to all the skaters and all the jumps in the field, not just picking on one particular skater. i bet that your favorite lady prerotates her tiny triples even more than trusova prerotates her gigantic quads. and yes, in that regard the ISU tech specialists are better than you, sofa haters. they are judging everyone equally, not just picking on skaters that they don't like.
@@alexanderbakulin8836 i'm talking about quad lutz as per the original poster, so shut your trap and go worship your goddess
@@yunilius7193 in terms of landing or prerotation trusova 4Lz are not worse than 99% of 3Lzs of other ladies (in fact it's better). it's just the usual hateful crap that you are talking. nothing interesting here
@@alexanderbakulin8836 i think u are delusional, why keep mentioning trusova? I didnt say anything about her alone. What i wrote is about all these girls' supposed quad lutz. U are acting as if i mentioned trusova alone, can u read or not? Silly fan.
medvedeva is like the worst flutzer back then HSHSHAHAHAHA
4 Toe Loop: Full Blade = No TOE-Loop! Only 3 1/4 Revolutions in the Air: No QUAD!
4 Lutz: Full Blade, Forward Take Off, Crossed Legs during Take off, Prerotation 180° (Pivot), No Counter Movement but Change of Edge - Three Turn Movement, only 3 1/4 Revolutions in the Air: NO 4 LUTZ -> FLOOPTZ! Compare with Mikhail Kolyada, Boyang Jin and
Nathan Chen. For Ladies and Men the same Rules should be applied! There is a lot of FAKED JUMPS in Figure Skating!
маг, иди в жопу
Another "expert" who watched too many Koola King videos on a loop...
@@onceuponatime7801 hate? I think you give your idiotic comments too much credit
It is acceptable that these ladies use an alternative technique to attempt quads since it's so much more harder. At least for me, and tons of other figure skating fans I know. Let's be honest, no one wants to see a tripletriple program any more these days.
Bullshit. I'd rather see a triple-triple program performed by someone with good technique than those pathetic attempts at quads. And it is not acceptable to use any other technique since, sorry to burst your bubble, that means the jump is not good and, honestly, could be actually called an other jump. And given that some men perform their "quads" with the same technique like those girls (e.g. Shoma and his 4Floop), it'd mean that there are double standards in judging - men are required to jump quads with good technique, while ladies can get away with cheating their jumps.
They should be judged the same as the men. I don't think any of these quads compare to what the men are doing. No power, just quick rotations, little ice coverage, not to mention the pre-rotations.
Alexandra, Anna and Kamila have good quads.
Liu need fix her technique.
Anna's quad is cheated
@@sherryt2711 the judges and technical panel in events of grand prix 2019, GPF 2019 and European Champion 2020...not think that Anna does quad cheat.
@@user-qk8nr7jp7i mmmm No, say it judges and technical panel of ISU.
The funny thing is that you trust ISU. Anna’s lutz is the worst of all
@@Maria-mu4rg Anna has a regular quad lutz a sometimes bad quad lutz (UR).
But Liu have always bad quad lutz and 3A.
Both have these problems, and not is funny thing...is necessary that Scherbakova and Liu work, over all Liu.
I think quads are a fad and will leave when Sasha loses them. If they don't, maybe I can see ladies needing a single quad attempt at least, but not 3 quads or more.
Russia will keep it going. Women have been working on it since the 90s anyway, so I doubt it's going anywhere, especially with Japan starting to get in on the action.
I think all it will take is that one big, career ending injury (from any of them, not necessarily Sasha) that you know is coming and everybody will back straight back off them. I personally have my money on it being a traumatic brain injury from how most of these girls fall out of the quads.
I don't think Sasha's going to lost her quads, barring injury. You can tell they're improving over time (this is her 3rd season doing quads) and they're higher than they were before. And she's also grown this year and seems to have given her more power. If anyone loses their quads, it's Anna and Alysa; they rely much more on rotation speed as opposed to height and distance, and rotation speed is what slows down during puberty where as height (what Sasha and Kamila have) doesn't normally.
Chrystalis Revival as long as poor technique, pre-rotation and underrotation is rewarded, they aren’t going anywhere.
And I also think there will be a lot more girls doing quads. Especially in Russia and Japan. There are only 3 spots on the World team. So these girls are in such a cut throat environment because there are so many amazing girls going for the same 3 spots, they're going to try to push and out do each other to a crazy amount. The boys have it a lot easier in Russia because none of the men are consistent.
I think it is ridiculous that flawed quads make the difference between winning and not. Some of these skaters have much worse skating skills than others and nobody is talking about that. Either the value of these jumps should be seriously reduced or factor them out into a separate jumping competition. Because otherwise it's impossible to watch these programs so centered around the jumps. Very disruptive and frankly uninteresting and definitely not beautiful. Trusova looks like a ten year old boy in his pajamas who walked out to do some acrobatics before bedtime. YAWN.
Lest we forget these girls wouldn’t be disfiguring themselves on the ice for quads if it wasn’t being so heavily pushed. There’s a reason they’re being taught to “cheat” to reach those supposed four rotations. The sport needs an overhaul before it turns into gymnastics on ice lol. What happened to the dancing and rhythm!?
Good you are not part of the panel…
Can you say Russian propaganda...
ALYSA LIU FAKE TRIPLE AXEL AND QUAD.