I Want to Talk About Facebook VR
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2022
- I've been watching a lot of videos about the Metaverse and Horizon Worlds and I wanna throw my two cents at it. Mark is trying to Facebook-ify VRchat and it's going to end poorly. The quest hardware has a lot of potential, but the infrastructure it's connected to might drag it down and make it fail.
Videos Mentioned:
RTGame - • I Played Facebook's VR...
Eddy Burback - • The Metaverse is So St...
Mental Outlaw - • The Metaverse Is The W...
Marques Brownlee - • Who Cares About the Me...
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Facebook trying to make their metaverse happen feels like how it felt when your parents and grandparents joined facebook.
I kiss the days when you had to have a college based email to register for Facebook .
I think the thing that distinguished Facebook from myspace, xanga, livejournal, blogger, and other popular sites at the time was that you used your real name, real photo of yourself, and filled out your profile with personal details that people were not comfortable giving out pre-Facebook. It was a big switch but people were under the impression that they had control over their privacy and could restrict access to their friend list so they could feel more comfortable posting very personal information.
Now almost 20 years later, people are more aware of how little control over their privacy they have and how their data is being mined and used in so many ways.
So I agree with you, it's not going to work, but I think that's where this all came from - not from a clean and uniform design business model but from a data mining model that the public has lost trust in
Spot on!
As someone with pretty severe motion sickness, the idea of VR becoming the way we use the internet is a nightmare.
Also...as a woman...i aint spending time doing my hair and makeup...to only destroy it with a silly headset
I think Zuck's trying to build this not for us to talk to Grandma, but for when we, our generation, am become Grandma. He's trying to build VR space where our grandchildren will come visit us and not be skeeved out at Granny's hypersexual rabbit fursona.
I don't know that it'll work, but I think that's the goal.
I more think he is trying to make money on a new idea, basically replicating the success of FB again but it’s just not working bc he failed to see why FB became successful in the first place and how landscape of social media changed over the years.
He is trying to build a new money machine for himself with faulty information at the foundation.
the megaverse is like VRchat but worse, despite how much money has gone into it. the funniest thing is that zuck claims that he doesnt know about VRchat at all
I accidentally misread Zuck
I miss MySpace soo much. I would stay up for hours customising my HTML.
The beatsaber tangent is such a moooooooood 😂 My ex had an oculus and I loved playing beatsaber
I think the thing that's so jarring about Metaverse is that it's so censoring without needing to be. It's limiting in a medium that isn't meant to be limiting. And that is why it will die, it's not expanding horizons, it's forcing people to mask in their corporate milk toast versions of themselves instead of exploring new things, hobbies, people, and appearances that they would like to for fear that their mom/grandma/weird uncle will find them and ruin their lives over it.
The censorship is almost a requirement. There's always going to be jerks and others who are inappropriate in one way or another with it varying depending on the observer. In most places you can either eject the other person or leave yourself from the environment and depending on the issue lasting repercussions can happen either socially or legally.
There are presumably private areas in any virtual world which would logically be a place for free expression but the rest of the environments are likely going to match a shopping mall. That's a difficult thing because this shopping mall has no security guards who can ask a jerk or creeper to leave. This means those interactions need to be very limiting.
Unwelcome content exists in other media, but it's highly limited. The thumbnails on the side of my screen are 2% of the area at most for each one and each one has a option to hide it or the channel and your avatar is about a 0.1% of the screen. Even if I found something highly offensive it's insignificant and I have to chose to be engaged in that content. We've never had an Internet where a random person can effectively dominate your entire field of view without you having control and I suspect most people are going to be turned off once they are harassed in VR space.
Fun fact: did you know it's spelt milquetoast
There are 2 versions of VR... the social "fun" side which is like early MSN with physics games, then there is industry applications. Both are unique, have their own audiences and that line needs to be there for a reason, the hardware will follow its needs, industry will follow AR, medical applications, the Car industry. then you have the Fun side. lighter, more accessible, cheaper (I hope) and that is where it will end, I cant see anyone wants to live in a world like Ready Player One.
Either Mark adds thicc furries or Meta fails
Nice try Mark, your bots won't silence me
i mean, you've got a good point
I won't support Zuck in any form. Normally I wouldn't even watch any video that is about anything that involves Zuck but I like supporting this channel and appreciate your thoughts and words. Thank you for your content.
I see the potential in vr for 3d modeling/design development for businesses and creators as well and skill development from medical training to language learning where having another person present can really help growth ( especially in a time where there’s a lot more recluses) but I agree that trying to turn vr into a primary socializing and communication platform is missing the mark.
I work testing vr and being required to go into vr everyday for hours is draining and does impact your mental and physical health over time. It’ll always be more convenient and simpler to use Zoom/Teams/Discord/Slack or any other communication tool ( including phones) rather then strapping a headset just to have a 1-1 with your co-worker
Off topic, but look everyone! a rare echo not wearing red and black clothes!!
Seeing you as a long time viewer talk about the problems VR/Meta is facing is so great and definitely shines a new light on it considering the VR content I consume usually comes directly from VR content creators.
I completely agree with your and Joe's point, Meta is trying to do something where the demand isn't really there. I understand that Meta/Zuck wants to be the company who drives the narrative and build something that is business orientated and clean, but that is just something not a lot of people are interested in.
I got a quest 2 as well when it first launched, primarily used it for beat saber to try and stay active during the pandemic and I slowly dived into VRChat. Now owning a Valve Index and 3 tundra trackers it is safe to say Zuck facebook-ifying things is not what is driving their headset sales, it's the cheap prices on their technology.
I miss MySpace and MSN messenger ;__;
the point about following "adult entertainment" and furries to see the future of the tech industry is soooo true! i tell people this all the time, but they never wanna hear me out or believe me!
I think that as long a vr equipment dosn't fit in our pockets, it will not become a casulat or regular everyday thing. Also, the adiction prone part of our brains conects with humanoid things, and that sharp animaition is not it. If they looked like Gibli animation though...
I could see Meta being a kinda LinkedIn VR for companies. Just a way to "monitor" employees working remotely. It has potentially minor corporate use, but I see no way it'll catch on like Facebook orginally did. Honestly surprised they didn't try buying out VR Chat and then sanitizing it.
i'm glad they didn't! no one wants the "sanitized" version of VR Chat, especially if Zuck is handling it!!!
I love learning about early social media
Same man, same
Facebook's whole model is built on the idea that you have exactly one Self, one face you present to the world, and that your Self uses your Real Name (which of course is your legal name) in every context. What's more, Facebook assumes you want to stay connected to everyone forever. There's no room in the Facebook model for pseudonyms, code-switching, trans people, trying on different aspects of self... in short, no room for play or for separating different parts of your life from each other.
That model doesn't make sense in a VR world - because what does VR have to offer your "real name" all-in-one self that a video call doesn't? If I visit someone in a game (in Animal Crossing, for instance), there's something new there - a space for experimenting with facets of me I don't show to everyone. I don't play in VR, but if I did I'd absolutely use it to try on new styles and approaches to interaction. The Metaverse isn't offering that - it's offering a worse version of real life, where actions have consequences for your Real Name Self and you don't even get the benefits of being embodied. But it's being sold like it's teleportation technology.
Anyone else a little sad that we don't get awesome points anymore? I collected so many 😢.
I recently watched Billiam's video about how "Facebook Wants to Game So Bad," and it was a really in-depth and interesting breakdown of first the scammy and scummy ways Facebook/Meta's used third-party games to generate endless revenue from their users in the past, and now how they're desperately trying to do that again using the Metaverse and their own games/tech now, and some of the reasons why it's just Not Working
I have a good news for you concerning the Facebook account requirement for quest 2 point, since a few month you could use a dedicated account call a meta account in place of a Facebook one( it is still a meta related account but at least you can desactivate your Facebook account without losing your quest library)
Social vr like vrchat and neos vr can be great but yeah meta horizon is just a terrible social vr experience, the only things i hope about what meta is doing is that other headset manufacturers will have the time to take more of the vr headset market from meta monopoly before meta put themselves out of business with stupid decisions (and products nobody want and people have better alternatives for)
thanks for sharing this great convo!!!
omfg, i put so much love and care into making my myspace look the way i wanted but also making it clean and neat. I miss it so much. I also miss facebooks old wall where you could move different apps around into the order you want. that was a much better layout.
"people dont wanna work in vr" - EXACTLY! All very well said.
Mark thought that he could look at VR.
Mark: Let me get rid of the R.
Keep the V.
And smear meta all over it.
A Dash of uncanny valley.
And there you you go.
The✨metaverse✨
As someone who's worked in VR, and was involved in the creation of a metaverse that is unrelated to any mentioned in this video, I completely agree with your take here.
I frickin love your hoodie 🍄
“Gretchen, stop trying to make fetch happen, it's not going to happen.” LMAO
I can't get enough of your hair! :)
Love the mushroom hoodie!!💛🤍💜🖤
I LOVE this hoodie!
I think metaverse would work how they want it to if VR became as accessible as computers are. There is no use for a VR workspace if it costs a mortgage and a half to get the equipment possible.
Instead of a family zoom calls a family metaverse server 😂
I want your hoodie it looks so comfy 🤩
Great explanation of MySpace v Facebook
A slight tangent, but I recommend the video essay "The Real Villain of Resident Evil 4 VR is Meta" by Jacob Geller. It touches on some similar ideas about how facebook is holding back their hardware.
Billiam just did a deep dive on Facebook gaming and the Metaverse which is super worth the watch after this!
I'm so sad that didn't get to use MySpace they it was intended but I've had Facebook since I was 5 or 6
VR is a medium for art. And to incorporate it into boring things Like talking with your boss or something will most definitely kill it. To sterilize like he's trying to do would take away a medium that's still in its infancy. It has real world applications also, but corporatalizeing it, is not the way for it to succeed. Girlfriend reviews has a lovely video about half life alyx, that embodies what vr can be. And I think that's what we should strive for as a society
omg I've never thought about people having to GO somewhere to watch potn before VHS 😳
Yeah of course I want my boss to see my fursona in a digital world of courrrrseeeee
I am just here to comment, and like your vids, because youtube has been trying to make me angry recently, and I miss you, thanks.
I think that it might have a space for therapy actually. Physical therapy - when there are legs and such - and for mental health therapy. And having that be " safe for work" would be important for a real a deep connection between the therapist and the patient. It might also help for standard medication check ups for people who have to go into the office to speak with the doctor about side effects... I think that there are places that it could go, but I am not sure that it will be a social platform. That would have to be more free form.
Also, it might be a good way for those that can't go into standard school environments to still get "in person" schooling.
But costs would have to come wAAAAYYYY down for any of that.
To use your example of "talking to grandma", you don’t want to do that using weird cartoon versions. You want to actually see grandma, the real person. That’s why video chat is so much better. I don’t have any VR gear, but I do like the idea - I just don’t think that we know exactly what it’s for yet beyond games and goofing with friends. Meta’s video chat system is far better.
Like 3D TV, the BIG obstacle is hardware. You need goggles, you need to spend big to buy the stuff to make it work, and because it’s a novelty thing, with no real application, it will only appeal to a limited audience. Grandma is not going to shove one of those on her head.
Making facebook work and family friendly kinda killed it tho emails for work , text & WhatsApp for family
"follow the porn and furries..." - Echo Gillette
(sometimes it's fun to take things out of context)
i only clicked this video cuz you’re wearing my favorite hoodie lol
One of the biggest issues I have with the Quest headset is that you need a facebook account to use it, and if you get banned then you no longer have a useable VR headset.
I study immersive media design (AR/VR development) and we constantly clown on the Metaverse 😂
I know very little about vr, it's something I've always been like that's for rich people, I'll never be able to use it but I do think the idea of it also serving a functional as well as a gaming purpose could be intriguing. Like a more professional version could perhaps be used for interviews or therapy appointments to keep younger kids more engaged if you can't drive there for whatever reason. I don't think a console purely for business is the best idea though, I think it would be a lot better if it was an extra app you could download like Facebook
Ok, but I am completely distracted by your awesome hoodie.
similar to what you said about smex work and tech everytime a tech company fails in the west it markers like crazy in west and south africa from google plus, facebook(pre meta) and meta if your tech company isnt making money you gonna make a shit ton of add for 20 somethings nigerians and southafricans
Christ that South Park episode is happening irl
I wonder if we talked the same about the new things in 2006~ and just forgot it haha
All of your points are Spot On. Also furries have always lead the internet, that is insanely true! XD and hilarious, and beautiful
Nice Hoodie
He is a boss trying to force his employees to hang out with him.
like you said, facebook succeeded by creating a version of myspace that grandmas could understand enough to use while still being good enough for her grandkids to be ok using, at least for a while. But it was usable for grandma because she could open it on the old desktop PC she used to print fliers for the bake sale on, or mobile phone their children brought them so they could phone for help if they got into trouble while outside somewhere, or the ipad they were bought for christmas to read large print books and play brain training games on. So the older generations often already had the hardwear, and FB was just there for them to use and also bright touchscreens are very accessible and easy to use by most people. Very few grandmas are going to be getting Quests for christmas, and even if they did the chances of them being able to use it without a younger person there to sort it out for them is virtually zero. I know for sure my mum just couldn't use one, it would hurt her eyes too much. And my dad would likely think it was very cool like the scifi books he read as a teenager, but would then never use it by himself. Its zuckerberg trying to fight the next war with the last wars weapons
but yes also, the appeal of VR is fundamentally escapism. It's about wanting to enter a different world with different rules where you can be someone else. Why by a £500 headset so you can be a more generic version of yourself without legs in order to talk to your boss in a bland corporate dystopia? That doesn't sound like fun
I do think that there’s a lot wrong with having tue Metaverse. It’s clear that it’s only there to gain money and live off trends. I believe that the way VR is now is fine because it’s a community of people who just wanna have fun together and escape the current reality they live in. It’s the same with video games, art, writing, etc. anything you find fun is an escape from your life to help relax you. The metaverse will definitely not have that charm and I agree that it will lose money and people. I agree with everything that Echo mentioned and I do believe that there is potential in the hardware. Maybe if it weren’t a VR chat in function and more of a presentation VR it would have more appeal. Presenting 3D models where you can more easily see small details that you probably wouldn’t have been to catch other wise. To sell an idea that would be better off experienced than described. This idea has probably already been done before and takes a ton of work to make. But I do believe getting rid of the must have Facebook account and just setting up an account with the metaverse will definitely help the idea as well. Just good for thought in all honesty. I am not an expert in anyway.
yo furries have their own sign language??? thats honestly not too surprising, great video!
Echo wearing something not red or black?! Still cute tho
In concept, Meta sounds like a more invasive version of Oasis from Ready Player One. In execution, it reminds me a lot of Second Life. Neither of those are good things.
Similar conversations were being had about the internet. Until people started making bank. Now we have the Internet. So,,, hopefully we'll learn our lesson.....
It does not help that the metaverse has low visual appeal.
What would help is if metaverse actually tried to show off something unique to the VR experience. Like maybe there's a task you can do better using 3D space that 2D lacks in.
Maybe do something interesting with gestures? Like what if you could act more like a cartoon rather than just be IRL 2.0? Enable exaggerated expressive ability. Raise fires from the floor when expressing anger or create clouds of rain above your head when you're being dramatically sad. Have a question mark dangle above your head for a second.
I know I could have fun interacting with friends like that.
Create escape rooms with your friends.
Get some creative sculptures who leverage 3D space in novel ways to create interesting experiences. Make it possible for users to do cool stuff with 3D too.
This did not go whre I expected it to
I completely agree. I think Facebook/Meta should be spending more of its ridiculous amounts of money trying to improve VR technology, rather than trying to inject the Metaverse into places where it doesn't belong. If they want to stay relevant, they should keep building and improving the tech instead of making what is effectively just Facebook but with weird floating heads and torsos.
oh snap, i didn't realize mental outlaw was known by other youtubers 😅
I think I confuse the meaning of generation when talking about the internet experience. Like when you're talking about being a part of the generation which adopted MySpace just before it collapsed in the onslaught of Facebook, I'm nodding my head in agreement because, like, yeah...we're the same internet generation but then you mention how much younger you were than I was at that point and the disconnect hits me again.
I guess, for me, whichever internet generation you are is defined not by your age at the time but rather by the time you got onto the internet (more or less) full time which, for me, was 2007 (despite having unsatisfying dabblings on it as far back as 1997) so I'm like AIM death throes/MySpace post-peak whereas I had friends in high school who might be thought of as the DOOM multi-player generation :-)
Wiggly dragon cursors slap actually i always downloaded those virus programs that let you change your cursors as a kid and I will again.
Wait furries designed a sign language---
I have a Facebook account, I use it to save progress in the few games I do play, since Google Play games doesn't always cut it.
Still don't quite get the appeal of VR though. My step brother let me try it once, not for me 🤷
AGREED.
i have learned something incredibly important, "be a thick furry"
I didn't know about this, but from what you told, it doesn't sound like metavers is made for the people who currently use VR to chat to friends and strangers. It sounds like it is made for the people who are currently on Facebook, for when VR becomes so mainstream that they will want to try it.
It sounds like VR is currently at the state where it is something the ''young people do'' and that the mainstream frown upon or don't understand. Just like texting 20 years ago, or Facebook in the beginning.
Bruh, you should see how 'adult' oriented Second Life is, but it feels like it's barely chugging though nowadays.
Horizon world? Have yall not seen the show Upload on Amazon prime. I highly recommend
He definitely needs to realize that VR is going towards "Ready Player One" more so than going towards "Surrogates". We don't want to look like ourselves or live our lives in the metaverse. We want to live fantastical lives and do things that are impossible in the real world
Tbh, as a mostly house bound person that cant visit family, this sort of thing would be nice *in theory*. If I could afford the sets for all my family members and like spend my birthday with them, that would be cool and because the older members are sometimes very conservative, they would not be ok with any fun vr chat rooms or slightly complicated/unknown technology.
I think there's a small market for this sort of thing, for people in situations like me, but it's honestly still a bad business move IMO lol
thoughts on ChatGPT
If I’m going into vr and all that hassle. I’m not going in to sit at a desk for work. That’s silly. I’m going in to talk crap with friends and play what is essentially dress up.
I was super pissed when I was forced to connect my quest2 to FB. Even kept it offline for a long time after it happened. I only use it for "no impact" exercise to help minimize my pain level from EDS. I'll be pretty upset if they keep dicking around with the software forcing me to stop using Beat Saber and my pain level goes back up.
"virtual worlds" are hardly a new concept second life has been doing it since like 2008 I think or around there not to mention IMVU that been up for many years as well...
I use Facebook for market place that got good deals
I liked MySpace way more than FB.. Everyone went to FB in 2009 and I fought it..Until 2011 🤷♀️ Nobody was using MySpace anymore.
I recently deleted my Facebook. The whole platform is shit and had no idea they were trying to do this. This is laughable
I sold my oculus quest because I don't use my Facebook
I hate it
"Follow the porn and furries". I'm pretty sure there's a shirt logo there!
i have heard that analogy before that tech follows the adult industry. most people that hear that stuff take those words literal xD
the internet was very small before facebook opened up to the wider public back in 2009 or 2010 i forget. you can look at stats it's quite impressive how many people started using facebook that never even used the internet before. online games made the internet popular for gamers between 1999-2006. the adult industry is more like a happy addon. i highly doubt that your average person got internet just for adult entertainment.
I was cool with it, up until he and his Metaverse devotees wanted to bring in-store simulated shopping and the workplace into it. When I'm on IMVU or Second Life, I don't want to pretend I'm my avatar living my life. I want to pretend I'm my avatar living the life I can't in the real world.
Metaverse is trying to find an audience that doesn't exist. If you want a business audience you are going to have a hard time because business is mostly made of people that are the type that won't find not irl communications at all enjoyable or useful because of how most people in those industries use communication day to day. Why create 3D models that will simply never impart the level of nonverbal/emotional communication when you literally already have means of communication that meet those needs that also has no barrier to entry comparatively. Like zoom and similar already exist at a far more accessible level and doesn't come with an additional cost for the company. Like in coming at it from the perspective of someone that physically can not and never will be able to use VR of any kind so maybe I'm more familiar with limitations from that side of things. VR consists of screens right next to your eyes, knocking out anyone who can't have bright screens next to their eyes, like say you have photosensitivity (something that affects over 25% of the human population) or you have some other eye condition; it consists of simulated movement, knocking out anyone who gets motion sick; and consists of having something enclosing your eyes and head, which will cause eye fatigue/brain fatigue which can cause a whole host of disabling symptoms. As such its highly probable that VR will never actually be able to enter the mainstream let alone beat out devices that already do the job better. Now, I can forsee AR being much more likely to succeed long term both online and in business because it doesn't rely on such niche tech so there's not nearly as much barrier to entry and it'll feel more absorbing (brain deleted word i mean sorry) in the situation and will still maintain at least some accessibilty.
The Metaverse is something that no one wants. It reminds me of Microsoft's attempts to buy their way into other trendy things. The Metaverse is Facebook's Zune. No, scratch that, other than being unpopular, the Zune was a decent piece of tech. Metaverse is closer to Bob or Clippy.
Facebook is burning itself to the ground chasing short term engagement and clicks at the expense of long term enjoyment and they've been slowly driving their users away. The only reason I still use Facebook is that's how I get invites to parties and events from a lot of my friends.
Unfortunately, the Facebook board of directors can't get rid of Zuckerberg. When Facebook was incorporated, it created 2 classes of stock. Class A shares (what normal people can invest in) are most of the stock. However for himself, Zuck created Class B shares. These get the same dividends as Class A shares, but they get 10 times the voting power of class A shares. This means Zuckerberg got the benefits of selling tons of common stock, but he has more than 50% of the voting power so he can never be voted out.
VR is an amazing place to escape our reality, at least right now it is. Bringing work, bio family, and business into this current generation of VR doesn't work. Because VR isn't at that stage yet (thank god). There's a lot of companies, including Meta, right now trying cash grab the industry of VR (the biggest point proving this is the overwhelming virtual reality hardware to programs ratio, we have better and better hardware with the same small selection of games and apps)
Meta's a business, so there are going to be in it for the money. The biggest problem with that right now, is most of the money being invested/thrown into VR is being invested by people/companies that never plan to actually use VR or even join the VR community. Which in turn causes the companies (like Meta) to listen to what the investors want instead of what the active player base wants.
Meta will listen to the group that's supplying them money and unfortunately the player/active userbase isn't their supplier. Which is also why they are starting to lose investors, because they are starting to actually see (thought social media, like CZcams videos) Meta's virtual products (apps, like horizon worlds) are significantly worse than their non-invested into competitors, like VRchat, Rec room, ect.
So Meta is learning the hard way, that if they don't listen to their users feedback and work on what the community wants, this branch of there company will fail. Either way a change is coming, hell its already started.
I think the thing is that Meta want the internet to be a platform they control. Work and email isn't, and they can't take control of it, so instead they're trying to suck it all into VR, which they can control. And it makes absolutely zero sense to do those things in VR, but that doesn't really matter because that's not why meta are pushing it
You can make a meta account u don’t have to us you’re fb account anymore unless u want too
The quest pro .. the battery headset built in it .. but a extra power is on the back of it if u want it for extra hrs of uses.
"platform"
You'd be surprised how many furries are involved in the tech industry and the infrastructure of the internet. While I'm not a furry, you'd be surprised how many times I'm looking for technical literature and end up on a furry's blog.
Like babes (meta verse) we & you have seen ready player one , and also we like the real world lol there's alot of garbage fire in the world but we like the world. Like nature stuff , also they are shoving it down our throughts there is an add on times radio for god's sake , I only have a Facebook account for scouts which I will delete soon
Definitely it's not playing into it's medium well. There's accessibility and affordability, and forced usership. As one of the people who genuinely used Google+ before it bit the dust, it was actually a good site! Cringe and lots of bullshit, it was a wonderful place. Google forcing it onto android devices is one the reasons why people hated it, and it's one of the only reason why they hated it a majority of the time. It still kept this customization without it being too much, like in MySpace. The collections were a huge example and were such a good way to organize posts and make them user friendly! However, it died due to it being an annoying automatic space waster.
Metaverse has NOTHING good with it, it's not even pleasing to look at, it's userbase is dick riding mfs most likely, and has no actual potential building off of it, like VRChat does. Quest is a good product, but now it's forcing facebook down its users' throat.
Such a good discussion tho! Still absolutely think G+ was a good app, it just failed bc Google couldn't profit off of it due to forced usership. They truly neutered it through this business venture of it.
the issue with facebook buying all these companies is that you can't actually buy the human that makes those games.
facebook also has john carmack which literally invented 3D gaming. he programmed games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, Rage, the engine HALF LIFE uses.
what the F is he doing at facebook? thats the biggest thing i don't understand. mega textures in VR sounds Fking awesome to me..even today when i revisit Rage1 i am impressed by how big everything looks cause the game doesn't have repeating textures.