DIY LED Race Dash UPDATE! (FM Live)
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- This week on FM Live, Keith Tanner gives us an update on his (almost) finished DIY analog LED race dash! Rebuilt from the ground up, the kinks are more worked out and it will soon be living in its new home, the Targa Miata.
Plus - Info on a new FM secret product development project!
Original live video recorded 4-22-21. Join us on Facebook every week at 2:00 PM Mountain time for new live content, and subscribe to our CZcams channel to stay up to date on all our Miata videos!
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I’m watching myself talk about not having a gauge cluster and I can see one on the shelf behind me (facepalm)
I know your not a fan of shift lights but having all the LEDs go orange at a specified shift point and flash red when it red lines would be a handy setting to have 👌🏽This is cool. Something I would of liked to seen years ago.
I've been wanting that one guys digital dash he showed off, but isn't selling. That thing is PERFECT.
I think I've seen the one your taking about. It was in a vid on youtube that was only about a min long. No idea what his chan was called or anything but if its the one im thinking of it was crazy all the features.
Channel name is Jroobi in case you were wondering
Putting afr behind the gauges is for sure one of the ways I would use it
Yay miata stuff
I'd love an integrated 2 digit readout in one of the larger gauge deadspaces for a boost gauge or other info.
This is so cool. Fingers crossed it comes to the NC :)
I would love to see the dimming function integrated in the regular dimming dial next to the steering wheel, for one its already there and two i always drive with lights on :/
Definitely. I hate when mods remove factory functionality
I want the friction circle, that was the best addition in my opinion. Other stuff is cool but pretty "standard" for custom gauge stuff.
Six months is a good lead time. Looking forward to putting one in my car.
Would love to see live footage of this in a car being driven!!!
I can’t wait until I can actually drive it! No footage before then :)
One thing that might help night mode is to do like Saab did where when in night mode the backlight was only on around 55.or maybe low brightness in the +- 10mph of actual speed
I made an analog version of this about 15 years ago by daisy chaining LM3914s together.
A way for na miata's to have an odometer is a small display either in the stock location or in that square in the middle with some buttons to switch between different info panels
I think the friction circle would be a cool option since most people who would likely buy this (like myself) use their car for spirited driving.
Can we get a 2022 update video on this please!!
Just so you know, a kit/instruction to use a electronic signal in the NA would be nice. :)
Thinking about things that would be nice for aftermarket programmers.
A small (hidden) black and white screen would be nice. Something like a UG-9616TSWCG02 would be plenty (my ts100 soldering iron uses them), just enough to display a line of text or two, if you wanted to check things like how long it's been since you changed your oil, as an example. That and a 5 direction switch would allow a menu-ing system for all kinds of extra information. Doesn't need to be much, just a stem that sticks out, but it would enable people to develop things like trip counters or oil-change reminders. Fuel economy trackers? Add a bluetooth module and it can display text messages? A small text display opens up all kinds of weird programming options, and I think the display I mentioned could shine through the gauges in the same way as the led rings do.
An SD card slot would also be nice, and would be cheap to add. It would be useful for data logging and should be a cheap part to add. Probably don't include an SD card by default, but for people who do want to store extra data it would be nice to be able to just drop an SD card in for some extra storage space.
Clear and obvious headers are always nice. A header that accepts an esp8266 could be useful.
Instead of including all sorts of toys on the standard kit, we're going to keep it as extensible as possible. This hasn't been set in stone yet (SPI? I2C? Both?). Then you can add all the screens, bluetooth modules, switches and SD readers you want.
This has to be suitable for both the hard-core DIY types who want to build something very specific and for those who want something as easy as possible to install and set up. Every DIY builder wants to do something different and we're just not going to be able to support all the ways people might want to use a 5-direction switch and a small screen (for example). In that case, you just know that Doom is on the table...
@@FlyinMiataVideo True, but I think that a small screen and some kind of input increases the amount of things it can do by a huge amount. Adding in custom peripherals is a lot more difficult than adding in some extra software, a small screen increases the types of software it can run by a huge amount and adds very little to the BoM.
Basically anything that would be a custom input/output can start it's life running on that screen, before you start complicating things by adding custom hardware.
I can see that you're trying to make this "timeless" in a sense, and adding a display takes away from that timeless-ness, but it really does increase the types of things this can do by a huge amount, and the particular display I suggested has a certain timeless-ness to it (black and white, fairly low pixel density, wouldn't be out of place in any car in the last 20 years).
I think having a bit of text output, and some kind of input, could be a really useful core feature for people developing custom open source things.
For the default, well you could put nothing on it, or a basic clock/odometer combo? The point is to provide a standard interface that open source scripts can use to send custom (textual) output and receive some kind of user input.
@@alexdavies2036 For development, just use a laptop. You can print all sorts of things to the CircuitPython REPL, and it's a lot easier to interact with than a tiny screen. That's how this one is developed - add a feature and then test it with the laptop connected so you can send commands and view output.
The NB will use the standard odometer. I'm not sure if we've finalized the plan for the NA.
We're not necessarily aiming for timeless, but scope containment is a thing!
@@FlyinMiataVideo I'm obviously not suggesting doing development on a 64x16 pixel screen. But a clock, an odometer, or a trip counter would be nice. If you included a display (a 2 dollar SPI display) and some form of input a lot of things can be developed for this.
* Odometer
* Oil change reminder (not terribly useful but modern cars have them and it would be easy to add)
* Trip counter
* Clock
* Mode change (turn off accelerometer for daily driving? Adjust brightness?)
* 0-60 timer
* Doom
* Simple boost gauge (with the appropriate extra hardware)
Just some small utilities that can't (easily) run on led rings, but which let people customize their experience and open the platform up for some neat open source stuff.
I think the UG-9616TSWCG02 would even fit where the odometer is already on the NA miata, although there are plenty of other cheap tiny OLED displays, like this much more expensive one: learn.adafruit.com/monochrome-oled-breakouts/downloads
Any thoughts on how hard it would be to retrofit a display into the gauge cluster? The display I mentioned is 26.30×8.00×1.30mm
Sounds like the dash is already pretty finalized so hopefully it's not too much work to hack one in aftermarket.
@@alexdavies2036 The hardware design isn't finalized but we have a pretty good idea of what we'd like to build. We'll certainly take some of your comments under advisement. The NB already has an odometer/tripmeter but that's not a solved problem for the NA yet. I honestly don't remember if we were planning on a screen for that. Still, I'd like it to be as flexible as possible so someone can implement a color or monochrome display and the input device of their choice. I'm just not sure if we're going to make that decision for them versus leaving it flexible.
For boost, I'd rather display that on one of the LED rings. On my own dash, I recently split the speedo ring into four quadrants so it could quickly and graphically display several different parameters. I also hooked up a light sensor so the LED brightness reacts in real time.
It would be cool to also have this think on other car model
Thecarpassionchannel's Greg Peter's has an NB cluster in his NA.
I put an NB cluster in one of my cars back in 2006. It’s not that hard, but there is some wiring to be done. Possibly less wiring with this setup. We’ll have to document that.
Yoo saw this and am hyped to see what happing with this
WOAH WE ARE GETTING THESE FOR SELL
Will it allow custom audible alerts like having a buzzer noise play when engine coolant is getting hot or a chime to play once engine has reached operating temperature?
We hadn’t planned on adding noise capabilities. That’s certainly something a DIYer could add.
I feel like this could be huge. Imagine a small online community where people share their little dash cluster dances? FM did it first.
Oh man, we'd love to see that.
also i have a NA6.. and the state i live in DOES CARE about mileage when registering.. This really should be made with even just a basic trip meter...
If you have an NA6, you will be able to keep your existing mechanical speedo and odometer. If you want an electronically driven speedo, the best thing to do would be to change to an NB cluster which has an odometer built into it. The only time you'd lose the odometer/trip meter would be if you installed an electronic speedo in an NA cluster like we did here. When you've got a rally computer that's accurate to a few inches on board, there's no need for a separate trip meter :)
So much better watching at 2x speed.
Would there be a way to place the new lighting along the outside diameter of the gauge face more like a "halo" effect?
One of the things we’re looking at on the production version is the LED placement. My prototypes were restricted by the parts I could buy off the shelf, the production version with its custom circuit boards doesn’t have those limitations. And yes, they will be further outboard.
Thoughts on open-sourcing the default configuration software so that we can modify it instead of starting from scratch?
That's the plan.
@@TargaMiata fantastic to hear!
@@TargaMiata wow! That is great news, thank you
An option for a proper oil pressure gauge for an NB would be ideal. Shift light option please.
Real oil pressure would just be a matter of installing a real sensor.
Would it be possible to make different functions or styles of lighting be available for download through the FM website, like just as a text file that we could easily copy over to the pi?
Also I would pay good money for that accelerometer function. It looked like the LEDs lit up on a color gradient according to how much G was being sensed in that direction? If that's true that would be a really fun driver's aid, it seems useful to have a visual cue to tell "how much grip" you have so long as you were familiar with the gauge in relation to when your current tires lose grip in whatever context you're driving in. For real, that's a cool idea, and I would pay extra for a clean adaptation of that into one of these clusters.
The friction circle is a legitimate driver’s aid. I didn’t go into it too much here because I showed it in the last video, but the color changes depending on how much acceleration it sees and the brightness is also increased. There’s also a “trail” that fades off so you can see trends. It’s working on up to 2G and it has a minimum threshold so it’s not jittering around as you drive on the interstate.
It’s still early to tell how non standard functions will be implemented by owners. I’m hoping for a DIY community that will share code and functions, and we’ll do our best to support that with code examples on GitHub.
@@TargaMiata Sounds awesome. All of this project sounds really awesome. Whether or not the friction circle is included in the production model I'm going to have to learn how to code so I can play around with this. Thanks for bringing such innovation to these 30 year old cars!
Is it a possibility to pre-order the new cluster?
Maybe when we get closer to production time.
Still waiting ):
Working on it! :D
Why the change away from stepper motors? Was it the fit to the needles? The stepper motors seem to be available for very cheap
I was able to fix the needle problem by taking a tach needle and heating it up, then forcing it over the pin. But that didn't solve the problem of the motors skipping steps and going out of calibration when being moved quickly. They were also a lot more computationally intensive and generally a pain in the butt.
The steppers are indeed cheap, but since the Miata came with air core gauges they're cheaper :) I just reused the ones from the cluster.
Excited to learn that you'll be selling this! Some thoughts/ideas...
- Will you be providing a white/cream gauge face version? (Answered -- thank you!)
- Is there a possibility for FM and RevLimiter partnering with all of gauge face options? (Answered -- thank you!)
- What about adding overlapping gauges that the current standard gauge cluster doesn't have, like a boost, Air/Fuel, Fuel Pressure, and/or working oil pressure gauge?
- What about a mini-oled display with options to show various/selectable data points
- Flashy lights for shifting might not be a bad idea for those of us that may have bad peripheral vision
- An option could be to make it so that the Green goes dim when Yellow lights up, and Yellow goes dim when red lights up.?.?
- But the friction circle was one of the most unique and cool features!!! :-(
- I saw a LED modified taillights that used some scrapped plexiglass to filter the LED's and it smoothed them out. Might be an option as well.
- scaled lighting would be nice to have
I talked about gauge face options - we’ve already talked to Adam. I suspect the answer to a lot of your questions are in the video if you have time to watch it all.
A working oil pressure gauge is just a matter of installing a proper sender with this setup. You could reprogram it and hijack one of the “stock” five gauges, but there’s nowhere to put any extras with this concept.
@@TargaMiata I did watch it all. You covered many of my points, as I listed many early in the video before I got to the end.
Looking forward to production! Great product with a smart niche!!
@@TargaMiata check this video out as it relates to this: czcams.com/video/v4QwvA_xGU4/video.html
@@gqswamp Different take on some of the same ideas for sure. That's an ambitious project.
I would love to have something like this. This is a lot more desirable for me than a race gauge. Can this be programmed with a Raspberry PiDash instead of a laptop?
That should be possible, a PiDash is just a Linux desktop computer in a weird form factor really. But you shouldn't need to spend any time programming once it's set up.
Could you explain what material you used for the translucent gauges? I understand that you used a laser cutter in processing them. I have several projects that would require translucency like that.
It's "Chemcast Black LED Acrylic", sourced from TAP Plastics in this case. Very cool stuff.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Thank you so much!
like the color change with rpm , but does it have to get brighter.. i dont like to have super bright dashes and usally run the dimmer as low as it will go.. can this feature be dimmed or be tied to the dimmer? also could ther peak/shift point light feature be turned off?
Cameras pick up the LEDs as much brighter than they appear to the eye. It's not as obnoxious as it looks. Since this video was shot, Keith has added an ambient light sensor so the dash scales the brightness of the LEDs. We haven't nailed down the configuration options for the "production" version yet.
Will you be adding in customization for those of us with non standard FD ratios or just to tune the wheel size to the speedo? And will there be a guide for converting the Speedo, trans output and wiring in-between from the NA cable version to the NB electric version? Will there be support for the NA6 (true) oil press gauge versus the NA8 (fake) oil press gauge? I have a 1997 with a NA6 gauge swap and hope there'll be support. The thought of a Oil Pressure Low idiot light solves alot of my issues with the cluster. Thanks.
How to convert the speedo: put the NB sensor into the transmission and run two wires :) That’s really all it is. Oil pressure is even simpler because the wires are already there. Note that some NA8s actually got a real sensor from the factory. So those are both easy to support. I think we will have to have some sort of calibration for non-standard rear end ratios, I’m hearing a lot of requests for that.
What colors can you get the translucent face material in?
All the things in 99 miata blue!
We've only ever seen it in matte black. But for the production version, we're taking a different route that should allow for Miata-style gauge faces so you can get them in whatever color you want.
Will there be any I/Os open for additional gauges? Will it be possible to add a CAN board easily to the feather?
We intend to leave quite a few I/Os available - as many as we can. There will likely be a CAN board included from the start. We want to make this easy for people to extend and do interesting things with.
Note that the production unit will not use a Feather, but will be a custom circuit board.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Great! Thank you
Still waiting 😭
So are we.
Did you ever make one for the Mini R53?
No, and that's not planned. We're a Miata shop.
Will it be a complete gauge assembly or gauges and a controller the customer adds to their existing housing?
Is there any plan to use the Z axis of the accelerometer to scale the grip ring?
Will it be possible to adjust input signals? Specifically, I have an NB2 3.90 differential behind an NB1 5 speed, making my speedometer and odometer off ~10%, which is my incentive for working on my own DIY dash.
We’re planning on all four or five gauges - speedo optional on the NA. It would be a set of gauges and controller that you would fit in your own cluster.
Z axis would help for measuring sweet jumps, but wouldn’t do much for the friction circle as it only measures acceleration and not mass. The circle is ranging up to 2G right now, it can do 4G.
I think we’d have to make it possible to recalibrate the speedometer. We’re working through that sort of thing right now.
@@TargaMiata Okay, thanks Keith! You're right, I was thinking force, not acceleration, though if the grip ring is calibrated to vehicle weight, it should still track. I think.
I noticed that the gauges are overshooting - is this expected to be a non-issue on an actual application, or are you planning on using PID control to limit it?
@@Dystyrbed the friction circle doesn’t need to be calibrated for vehicle mass, it is measuring actual acceleration. I suppose if you’re running around on ice or have massive grip you might want to scale the range a bit, but for the majority of applications 0-2G is pretty appropriate.
The overshoot you see comes from a step change - when I’m driving the needle from 2000-5000 rpm as fast as they’ll physically move. In reality, they only need to move as fast as the engine and they’ll be taking much smaller steps so it should not be a problem.
Any updates on this?
Unfortunately, the past year has not been a good one for small electronic project development. The engineer we were working with was overwhelmed with Real Job projects and simply getting our hands on chips was a problem. We're still moving ahead but it's a lot slower than we'd hoped back in the spring.
Will we be able to plug a laptop and change things ourselves? Also I have a NB1 with a 2.4 Ecotec so definitely different
Yes.
@@TargaMiata are we getting closer to getting these for sale?
@@Tanker_Wanker Unfortunately, the chip shortage has made things very difficult both in terms of parts supply and available time for the EE who's doing the work. We're exploring a different way of building it that will hopefully make it quicker to bring to market and more flexible when it comes to processors.
Could this tie into an after market ECU, say MS3Pro pnp? 2003 VVT (Exocet)
For the information normally sent to the stock cluster, yes. Speed, rpm, fuel, temp, oil pressure, lights, etc. For extra data like A/F, the hardware would have the ability to display it but you’d need to do some programming.
will you make one for the nc aswell?
Curious about this as well!
Will this be able to work with a Kswaped NB miata
If the K swapped car can drive the stock gauges, yes. If not, then probably still yes but it might take more work to get it up and running.
2023 🎉 plzz or now 😅
We've done a couple of videos on this project since and (breaking news) we have one running in a stock 1.6 Miata right now based on our custom PCBs. It's close!