High Horsepower Basics for Miatas (FM Live)
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2020
- Want to know how to get the most horsepower from your Miata engine? This week our resident tuner and Miata guru Jeremy Ferber gives us details on pushing the limits of Miata power.
See our 1995 M Edition pull over 440hp on our dyno:
• Flyin Miata FM IIR tur...
Original Live video recorded Thursday October 1st, 2020. Join us every Thursday on Facebook at 2:00 PM Mountain Time for new live content!
Flyin' Miata is the world leader in Miata performance. We offer a wide range of parts for all years of the Mazda MX-5 Miata.
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Jeez, over 300 hp in a Miata? Unbelievable. I want one.
There’s several 500hp+ out there lol.
Having owned an NA with highest-spec FM turbo, I experienced major turbo lag, followed by a huge surge of boost that would whip out the rear end in an instant. FM is an honest shop and they back up their products. Over the two months I had the car before I sold it, the upgraded powerplant was completely reliable. But you've got to keep in mind, when you get high-hp in a small engine by forced induction, there is a major price to pay in drivability.
Now was that tune and high boost setting? Like couldn't you dial it back some and make it less crazy? Just wondering cause I just got a megasquirt and will be going for maybe 220-260ish so I'll need a decent size turbo, but I want it drivable.
@@khayrobs It would be 100% drivable!
Not really. Boost by gear, traction control etc are commonplace these days…of course if you have a big turbo drivability wasn’t the part of the plan. Doesn’t take a turbo expert to figure that out
I could listen to this guy for hours, incredible delivery!
Coolest guy of the bunch! No offence to the other fellas haha I’ve listened to hours of them too
Thanks:) You answered some of my questions that a had. I'm preparing to totally rebuild of my 1990 mx5 (VVT engine and in the future turbo it) and videos like this give me ton of knowledge. I hope for part 2 :) and more. Greetings from Poland
This video was so helpful. One of the best Miata videos I’ve ever watched
I like how a lot of this miata talk can be extrapolated to generally apply to modified cars on a whole aside from the specific limits of miata assemblies engineering.
Awesome video. You answered so many of my questions that I've had about where I should be power wise. I have a stock 1.6 1990 model that I've turboed with a stand alone and bigger injectors . I'm about to get it dynoed and have been SERIOUSLY contemplating the hp I should be safely running. 230hp is gonna be an absolute blast. Thanks again.
We built a na 1.6 that was made into a 1.8 boosted on E85. She put down 600 at the wheels. However we backed it off to 400 for the drivability. Popped two 1.6 rears
Great video, I watched it all.
So well done ! Excellent video.
Thanks
Many thanks!
Another OUTSTANDING & INFORMATIVE Video...Thank You So Very Much!!!
Our pleasure!
Super-interesting episode! Thank you for sharing!
Ll Mop ok with mowith mmlMiata lll
O was just p OM m o ok I’m lp
Thanks guys, I love your content! I had an NB1 years ago and loved it but sold it on to a family member and regretted it for years. I just picked up an NC 2 PRHT and am completely smitten. I love the naturally aspirated motor but do think filling in the low end torgue would be nice. I don't have any desire to have a 300-400 HP NC but for me I think the sweet spot would be about 240-250 HP which I understand would allow me to keep all of the supporting systems pretty much stock. What I haven't heard you guys talk about is how to get to this level for an NC.... am I just missing the right video or ?
Great information
IT'S JEREMY! I've talked to him a loy in the past and it's nice to put a face to the name/voice 🤙🤙
You probably dont care but if you're bored like me during the covid times you can watch all the latest movies and series on Instaflixxer. Have been watching with my girlfriend for the last few days =)
@Pablo Duncan definitely, been watching on instaflixxer for since november myself =)
Your videos are great, informative, honest, and realistic. nice to hear someone in the car community speak with intelligence. BTW, when is the stage 1 for the NB going to be back in stock?
We're hoping to have those back in stock sometime in November. Sorry for the hassle.
@@FlyinMiataVideo no worries, I I'll be calling ahead of time to buy prep/maintenance parts. It's an NB in nice shape, but 140k miles
So FM Team, would you rather have a 325-350 hp 4 cylinder or a v8 swap? Great video btw. So helpful and informative. I love how you guys show the set ups too
Ooooh, good question. I think you'd get different answers depending on who you asked here. It might also depend on what generation you preferred. Pokee (the car in the video) is a blast to drive on backroads, but a bit more of a pain in traffic. Personally, I think the ND V8 is hard to beat. It's newer, comfortable, and does everything well on street and track.
Great vid anyone wanting to build a car should watch this before spending a penny would save them time and cash.
What would be your ideal NA or NB from the ground up.
Brakes
Suspension
Engine build
Management
Cooling
LSD
Gearbox
Etc
Or forget all that and start with an ND or NC as they are both 2 litres and tune them?
I know there’s some the don’t like the NC and I’m not a huge fan but the are cheap now and they are still an MX5.
I ran a 2 disc setup on a 280 a in the 80 s for gt2
Very helpful awesome video great content as always!
What would you say would be the power limit or RPM limit of supertech stainless exhaust valves on e85 or 93?
(Assuming spring seat pressure and pressure at max lift are both adaquit)
Perhaps 350+whp on e85? And up to 350 whp on 93?
Asking bcuz I probably won't be able to setup an EGT sensors on my cast manifold
Great video.
Nice and informative. Thanks :)
Great video and a wealth of experience. Thank you for the work. I would love to run a twin turbo set up on my ND, I suspect there will be many more options in the near future.
Would love to Turbo my NA with the na8 kit.... If it was ever in stock
Have you heard about the ecotec swap? What do you think of making that change?
Thank you
Do you have any experience with NA or NB motors that are boosted running 10:1 or 11:1 compression pistons?
I see turbos and V8s. I'd love to hear FM's opinion on smaller engine swaps. The LFX and AJ30 seem like they'd be reliable. 300 hp options.
It comes down to the rest of the driveline. If you keep the stock transmission, you have the same potential failure points as with a turbo of similar power. You may also find the gearing is not optimal.
If you change out the transmission, now you're at a similar level of effort to an LS conversion. So if you're going to all that effort, why leave 100+ hp on the table? The V6 is a little bit lighter, but not THAT much lighter and the extra power and torque really makes up for it.
There's some good looking work in this area - the Rocketeer conversion in particular is very well done - but it seems like a bit of an awkward middle ground.
@@FlyinMiataVideo Can't register a LS in a Miata in Australia... the LFX however is a different story. :-(
For reference the eudm flat tops have egr provisions the JDM flat tops do not.
I'm guilty of boost wo suspension brakes. Sway side to side highway. Changed it out soon after
Great video. How much power would you say the ND differential and driveshafts are able to handle, normally aspirated?
It's not a big differential - but given that they haven't shown any signs of trouble with the torque from turbo cars, it's unlikely you'll have any trouble with a naturally aspirated build.
Lots of good info! Didn't hear it mentioned but what are adequate catch can setups at different power levels? I previously ran a GTX PCV Valve from passenger side of valve cover > catch can > intake manifold using 3/8th hose at 240hp. Drivers side valve cover port VTA. About to hit 350hp+ and thinking this may now be inadequate.
Any turbo setup will benefit from a good catch can that takes into account both sides of the valve cover. There aren't a ton of options so having one > not having one. Only real question is do you dump it manually or drain it to the oil pan? Personal choice, but there are pros & cons.
I work at a fairly noisy area and I can barely hear the video with headphones
Increasing compr ratio which is the safest number on a bp6 engine??
So you said, since you don’t have E85 anymore you don’t really go above 400 so you wind up staying around 325. Does that mean that on a built engine with proper tuning you can be using pump gas and achieve 325? Is that 91 or 93?
„get a second car, or just get a civic“ 😂 cracked me right there
Why do you keep skipping the NC when you talk about super chargers and turbos?
On a stage 1 NA primarily driven on the street with a bit of autocross thrown in, would you recommend a coolant reroute, or is simply upgrading the radiator enough to manage the additional heat?
The radiator upgrade should work fine for that sort of use.
Ooo what seats are those
Whats your opinion on NDs transmission being able to handle more power like your turbo kit? I love the trans in these and don't want to blow it up
Which ND you have and how you drive the car will make a big difference. We know the earlier ND transmissions seem to be weaker, but we have not had any failures on our shop turbo cars. If you plan on racing the car and driving it hard on a regular basis, it might be worth looking into a reinforced Spec Miata transmission.
So bigger cams in a BP4w engine will not bring power gains? even after tuning accordingly with a standalone ECU on E85?
I'm looking for mods that could bring a slight power increase that aren't directly visible to the "naked eyes", and cams seemed to fall within that category.
To elaborate a little, where I live modifying your car means you'll fail inspection so I can't really fit a turbo under the hood. I am however fortunate enough to have a '99 NB without an OBD port (mazda seemed to have avoided putting them in whenever not mandatory in certain countries), which means I can run a standalone without failing inspection (as the inspector can't tell it's there). A stroker kit seems to be another way to get more power but it's *really* more expensive.
Adding HP past the basic bolt-ons for a NA engine does get expensive quick once you start modding internal parts. I think you might be able to find a cam that shows some improvement these days but back when we did our testing, which was a looooong time ago, we couldn't find anything that was worth the price. Of course, we're thinking about resale so, it'd be different if it was a personal car.
Is a stronger spark really necessary? And if so, at what power level or is there some other marker?
If you can't light the air/fuel mixture, you don't get power. You can tell you need a stronger spark when you start to get misfires near torque peak or you have to close up your plug gap too much.
I would be interested in the reasons you do not use superchargers and prefer turbos instead. I want more torque and not high end speed so for me, I believe supercharging is the better route.
The whole "superchargers make torque and turbos only make high end power" isn't really accurate. It's all about the correct sizing of the components. On the ND, for example, it's the turbo kit that is the torque monster while the common supercharger kit is the one that needs to be wound out to perform.
We did another video on forced induction types that you might enjoy.
Have you had many issues with the oem fpr on a na8 not being consistent or faulty randomly?
It’s not common but sure; anything could happen at this age for an original NA Miata part. If you are needing more technical help, drop our techs an email at support@flyinmiata.com.
What about where fuel restricts horsepower levels? As in what is the typical max you would get out of 91 octane fuel versus going to 93?
Most 'premium' where I am is 91. Conocos have 92 sometimes.
I hope someone answers.
Any chance FM will bring back the CARB legal MSM catalytic conveter?
Sales on that product were quite poor, so there are no plans to bring it back right now.
What is a safe boost level for a stock msm? (With standalone ecu & rx8 injectors)
I have a new manifold and gt2860 but it has a 13lb waste-gate. Would it be safe?
We generally rate short block strength by power/torque, not by boost level. The MSM engine can handle 275hp at the wheels reliably, above that your rods are in danger. You may want to look for a different wastegate.
In all that i always wondered how ppl saying its durable to like 300 maybe 350 bhp on 6spd gearbox and then yt builds 440bhp on wheels driving happily on it. Is there some way to strengthen the gearbix to this power or is it just playing with fire at that power level?
There's no hard limit as to what power level the stock 6-speed transmission will fail. There are many factors such as the condition of the transmission internals, maintenance history, powerband, how you drive it, and frankly just luck in some cases.
At 400+ wheel horsepower, you're starting to play with fire a bit. If it's your daily drive, I'd have a spare ready to throw in at anytime.
There are a few companies out there that claim to be able to strengthen the stock transmission internals, but we have no recent experience with any of them and can't speak to their quality.
@@FlyinMiataVideoi see like myself i dont want to go that high for my nb maximum 300 but it just was always interesting thing cor me i know about bmw gearbox swap but in this i would rsther have lower whp and still have that miata shift feeling but thanks for the info
Weak volume. If you turn it up and forgot about the ads later on, BOOM!
crazy not even a coolant reroute on that beast
Any chance you know the breaking point on an automatic transmission in a NB2?
Since the NB automatic transmission is controlled by the ECU, it's not easy to get to transmission-breaking power levels on that car. Our Stage 1 turbo system retains the stock ECU and the transmission is happy, but we just don't have any information beyond that point.
@@FlyinMiataVideo so the stock computer will support stage 1 turbo kit with tune I assume.
The stock computer is required for our Stage 1 kit.
Which is the easiest way to gain 20-30hp in an naturally aspirated engine?? Increasing compr ratio with a better intake will it work ??
There's no easy 20-30 hp recipe for naturally aspirated power. Increased displacement, increased compression, increased revs are what you need. Simply increasing the compression ratio won't be enough, and there's not that much power hidden in the intake - especially on the newer models.
@@FlyinMiataVideo damm, i need a lot of money
:(
@@FlyinMiataVideo is it dangerous for the b6 engine increasing compr ratio from 9,4:1 to 10:1. Here in greece we run with 95 octane at least
@@MrTAKIS1984 Europe and the US measure octane differently, so your 95 octane is roughly the same as 91 octane in the US. You can probably run 10:1 on that fuel.
My goal is 325 ish 14lbs of boost 97 na
Just wondering how many horsepower, roughly I'll get on a 1.6 with your gt2560 turbo kit on wastegate pressure. 2.5 exhaust.
You should get approximately 160 wheel horsepower with our Stage 1 Kit and voodoo box. Feel free to drop our techs an email at support@flyinmiata.com if you need more technical specs or answers.
@@FlyinMiataVideo awesome. I just installed the 2560r with your Flyin Miata manifold and downpipe and I'm running megasquirt. So I just wondered what kind of horsepower I'm running on wastegate pressure. I'm going to PFI speed in Fort Lupton this Saturday to get the Boost turned up. Thank you
@@scottmason2245 Wastegate pressure can varydepending on other factors, so it's not really a good measure to use. That setup with a good intercooler and good tuning is good for roughly 230 rwhp with an expected lifespan of a couple of decades.
@@FlyinMiataVideo that's awesome to know I appreciate it. I've got a lot of money in Parts in this car and I don't want to ruin it. Thanks again
Why is the Eaton sc no good on the ND?
It's not that it's no good, it's that the turbo works better.
What is the status of finding a turbo solution for ND2 Miatas?
The ND2 turbo is entirely dependent on someone cracking the ECU. The programming is completely different than the ND1, and until someone in the aftermarket community figures out the software side, there will be no turbo kits for ND2s. Unfortunately this is completely out of our hands.
@@FlyinMiataVideo No standalone management solutions?
@@awesomecooly123 Not that we are aware of for the ND2, but we are only interested in offering a 50-state legal solution, so a full stand alone ECU is not something we would offer at this point.
@@FlyinMiataVideo I believe OpenFlash Tablet offers some level of tuning for the ND2 now. With that on the market, is running a turbo now a possibility?
@@lotteplus We have never used the OpenFlash to be honest, but we don't think it has the sophistication or options to give you enough control to tune for a turbo.
Intakes best for all motor NA8?
There are two main things to consider. First, charge temps. Second, for a broad torque band you want the intake tubing length to stay long. Unfortunately these two things are hard to get both right and the best solution we've used for a couple decades is the Randall intake duct which delivers cooler air from the cowl area into the stock air filter box.
do u sell a 2 disc clutch combo??
We do not. We played with twin disc clutches 20 years ago but were able to get enough holding power out of more traditional clutches without the added expense of heat sensitivity.
How do spec miatas work fine without coolant reroutes?
Spec Miata is limited to stock horsepower with big radiators, no AC and very efficient coolant.
@@FlyinMiataVideo ....they also have the right head gasket.....:-) The question I have stock 2003 NB ...is their value in taking my Mazda Miata to a tuner /dyno testing before starting any modifications ? P.S. going to order one of those ATI balance things .
@@alexisknows6513 If you want to know what your mods did on your car, yes, you should definitely do a baseline and then return to the same dyno for follow ups.
Can anyone elaborate more on why superchargers would be bad on a ND?
I’m keen to supercharger my ND but it seems that the twin scroll turbo by BBR is better bang for buck performance.
for all the exact same reasons why FM doesn't like them on any other miata. Superchargers augment the engine a lot more directly with the size of the engine than turbo setups do. Small engine can only get a small supercharger, turbos are nowhere near as restricted. Therefore, it's all the cash you'd spend turbocharging, and a fraction of the power at the end. Added complexity, increased maintenance, and parasitic losses of the supercharger being strapped to your pulley system. Short of going with a rotorex (which is still inferior to an exhaust driven turbo), everything points to turbocharging. The basic jist: Miatas have small engines, small engines gain small power from superchargers. A corvette gets to gain 150hp from a supercharger because it is a massive supercharger being strapped to a 6+ liter engine that can actually pull that kind of volume down to make boost.
@@twrcrew8852 thank you for your explanation, yeah that makes sense. Id say when choosing between the two it depends on how you want the car to feel. As well as how much power you really need. Turbos are better and make more power with higher efficiency but I've still found myself enjoying supercharged cars more. I think it's just the linear nature of the supercharger. I do mostly back roads mountain driving/the dragon and autocross so having big power isn't a big deal for me. I also really like lag because that '90s style of big push of power feels so good but thats not conducive for mountain driving. Man I miss my speed6
@@HARaZAC Speed6s were turbocharged. And actually the lag anxiety of a turbo is not really warranted anymore. A lot of people get hung up on an ancient view of turbos (and often regurgitate it when making comparisons.. the differences between the two in the 1980s). With twin scrolls, infinitely customizable runner size/manifold design/AR trims on the housings in addition to the map and fueling, you can achieve even quicker spool than a supercharger, further still without the delay of anchoring down the drive belts, decreased MPG when boost isn't desired, and all other issues associated with a super.
couple that with a hyper-modern engine with direct injection, variable lift and phasing on both exhaust and intake, and you're making money there. The GTX25 that FM sells is very responsive of "dumb" motors like the 1.8 and 1.6. VVT lift in the 02-05 further lessened spooling time, and today it was slashed further with all that tech. There are factory engines now (like the tiny Honda L15)... a 1.5 making full boost at 1800rpm! A larger engine like ours is just going to be that much sweeter. Skyactive G or not.
Wow, over 400 hp and no coolant reroute?
I was surprised to see that as well. It looks like I could hold off on a reroute then since I’m still NA, I’ll just upgrade the radiator and save the money for other parts.
have u done an automatic trans. 4l
which one 4L80....4L60
Dang, this video should of been titles Q and A for NA miata cuz thats all he talks about and when asked a question about the NC and ND as far as how to make power he goes and points out a V8 kinda stupid. I can see he rather talk about old cara and not the new ones maybe cuz he
Dont like them..
We apologize if we weren't able to cover everything you were hoping for in this video. The older models have been around longer and there are obviously much more parts and opportunities for gains on the older engines. This video was to give a path for BIG horsepower. Newer engines are much more efficient and are much more technical, meaning the easiest way to get a major horsepower bump is through an engine swap, or forced induction. Feel free to reach out to our customer support team directly if you have specific questions you need help with, or suggestions on mods that will work to help boost horsepower to the NC/ND platform.
@@FlyinMiataVideo hey! I appreciate the response may I suggest in future videos on the titles at least to put the generation you guys will talk about i dont know i think maybe it will
Attract more ppl that way but what do i know
Very interesting and fun but dang by the time one goes through a Miata to make it produce so much power then addressing everything else that comes with it? LOL why not just buy a Porsche and be done with it....save all the agony
-Go get a civic! XD
Make America California arrrggh
Cali legal not 50 states. Most of us never have to worry. If FM doesn’t want to produce the product they are just Lossing business and sending us to the competition.
That's not really true. The EPA is cracking down, at the federal level, on vendors that sell products that affect emissions controls. The best way to prove that a product does not have emissions implications is to get an EO. It may not matter at the individual registration level, but it's important to us if we want to stay in business. Our plan is to be here for decades to come.