Tom Brady is CLEARLY more responsible for Patriots' success than Belichick - Mike Greenberg | Get Up
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- čas přidán 29. 03. 2020
- Mike Greenberg spells out why he thinks Tom Brady is more responsible for the New England Patriots’ success than Bill Belichick, then is joined by Dan Orlovsky and Marcus Spears to discuss why this is even a debate, when people rarely do the same for Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant and Jackson, or Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich.
#NFL #Sports
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Now that Brady is playing in the NFC championship game in his 1st year with a new team. There is no doubt Brady was more responsible for the dynasty.
All people need to remember is, (MISSED PLAYOFFS 4/5 years in Cleveland) and (5-13 in New England before Brady started).
Brady starts- (super bowl win)1st,3rd, and 4th year starting.
Isn’t it a coincidence that literally the moment Tom Brady gets his chance to start, the patriots just magically start playing amazing. They already had a pro bowl quarterback. Why couldn’t bellichk win with Bledsoe, since it’s about the system?
You are absolutely right. People seem to forget how good Bledsoe was.
Exactly
That's because Bill is such an incredible genius that he invented the system in the time it took Brady to jog from the sideline to the huddle mid game after the Bledsoe injury.
@@How2HateYT hahahaha nice one
@@How2HateYT I know you are joking, but truth be known, it's not even Belichiks System. It's Ernie Adams System. Belichik just runs it.
I know stats don’t tell the whole story, but man does mike greenberg make a compelling argument that’s hard to debate.
Xavier like what besides the argument of Matt cassel
@Xavier lmao bruh ur dead wrong. I understand that a randomized controlled study is important to measure the impact of a particular player. I'll do one for you right now. You had Drew Bledsoe, probably a top 10 QB at the time, and Belichick wasn't able to come to a winning season with him. Then you drop Brady right into the starting lineup out of nowhere as a rookie, and he is able to take the team to the SuperBowl. And then you go ahead and say you don't know what would happen if you dropped in Matt Cassel. Yes, you do know what would happen. He would've done even worse than Drew Bledsoe because Bledsoe statistically is the BETTER qb. You're only looking to the 2011 season where he won 11 games to make your argument. Sure 11 games is nothing to scoff at, but do the COMPARATIVE analysis. Literally the season before Brady took that team to an undefeated season and came a David Tyree miracle from having a PERFECT season. The next season they had a SIX game drop-off. That's huge in football terms. Ever noticed that Teddy Bridgewater got 11 wins in Minnesota. He was put in a winning position by his coach and had a star-studded Vikings roster. That's how he got to 11 wins. Same thing happened with Cassel. And then you talk about Jimmy Garrapolo, but he literally won three games in the season and two of the teams were the DOLPHINS and JETS. Cmon man, you and I both know we need a larger sample size. Also Jimmy G when inserted into the 49ers, who couldn't BUY a win without him, made it to the SuperBowl. Do you really think that was a coincidence? NO. He's a darn good NFL QB. And then last when you said that we can't hold Belichick's pre-Brady career evidence against him. YES YOU CAN. That's literally the comparative analysis. The Browns had FIVE winning seasons before Belichick arrived. THEN he arrived and they had FOUR losing seasons out of 5. That is the most comparative analysis you can do. Belichick was literally the ONLY VARIABLE. Simple isolation and we see Belichick wasn't the most important to the Patriots wins. It was Brady. Case closed.
Haywood Jablowme cassel is proof of what? That Brady is more than twice as good as a pro bowl QB? He threw 50 TD passes to Cassels 21. Idiot. Lmfao “didn’t miss a beat.” Didn’t even make the playoffs.
@Xavier Nice try😂
Haywood Jablowme Casell is enough proof alright. Enough proof that Bellichick is only a good coach with average level talent, but the greatest when he has the greatest QB of all time. Bellichick couldn’t squeeze top 8 QB production out of Cassell with the same offense that Brady set records with.
Mike Greenberg is literally the only ESPN analyst I know acknowledge, he literally put all the facts out there for everyone to see and they dont weigh in BB's favor. Not saying he isn't a defensive mastermind and a GOAT coach. But the notion that BB made Brady and he could have done it with any top 15 QB in the league is absolute garbage. Max keeps saying Brady left the cupboard bare for BB, but if BB truly made Brady, then he should be able to turn any QB into a Champion, not just Tua or Burrow.
Logan B Facts. Just plug whoever into the system
Do you mean all of this literally though?
@William Lee Look people who think Brady sucks nowadays is dumb. He's still an elite QB at age 43 which is saying something. But all of what you talked about goes both ways.
Tom had a great run game in almost every SB he won and a great defence. Tom going to Tampa is going to have a worse o-line, a worse defence and a worse running game. No more 30+ TOs seasons for his defence, no more defensive scores, no more 3 points allowed at half time, no more 5+ 3 and out drives for the other team. All of what you said is double sided.
NE's defence will be fine w/o Brady. When Brady fans give Brady credit for his defence it's infuriating. Drew Brees protected his defence, Peyton Manning as well, Aaron Rodgers as well... defensive personnel and scheming is much more impactful than the QB. Hate to break it to ya.
Could be wrong but bill was the last coach to take the browns to the PO. Won 6/9 with a 6th rounder and 12-5 with a 7th rounder. Undefeated with a second rounder until he got injured. Who was in the SB just a few months back.Until that injury,he was wiping the floor with Miami. Picked and partly trained colts 2019 QB. Bill has more former QB as starters than any other coach. Facts are only facts when you don't cherry pick them.
@@timocruz510 lmfao great run game???????!!!!!! You must not have watched the pats much over the last 20 years
It blows my mind how people just ignore Belichicks record before Brady
Just play the opening two minutes anytime Max starts talking.
When the only ESPN employee with integrity speaks truth and logic, and on top of that he's a Jets fan.
Wow.
LETS GOOOOO
I wouldn't say he's got THAT much integrity, because he screwed over his former radio partner
Mike nailed it, Brady is the reason. Put Brady on another team for his career and the Pats would not have been a dynasty, and no one would be saying BB is a goat coach.
Just by default most of the credit has to go towards Tom Brady because he's the one who actually has to take the field. That's not taking anything away from Bill Belichick he's still a great coach
Bill can get 11 wins with a crummy backup. I'd take him over Brady any day
But what if Adam Vinatieri was a terrible kicker? What if Gronk was drafted by someone else or Randy Moss had never come to town? What if Seattle had run the ball? What if Edelman had dropped every pass coming his way against Atlanta? What if the defense had been horrible against the Rams in last year's Super Bowl? For real. What would people say about Tom and Bill then? Bill is the greatest coach ever but he's on the sideline. And Tom is obviously the GOAT but he doesn't block for himself, catch his own passes, kick field goals, or intercept passes at the goal line.
Voltrono Bill can’t squeeze top 12 production out of a back up. The crummy back up choked 5 games against playoff contenders, and threw 21 TD’s to the most talented offense in the league. The year before, Brady threw 23 TD’s to ONE receiver.
Not to mention Brady has taken so many pay cuts he’s saved Bellichick 100 million dollars over his 20 years in New England. You know why Hightower returned to NE on a cheaper deal when he was getting better offers from the jets and Steelers? Brady and his pay cuts. Bellichick doesn’t even reach 4 Super Bowls in his wildest dreams without Brady and the 100 million dollars he saved him over his career
@@impervius8690 I must have missed the part when Tom Brady kicked multiple Super Bowl winning field goals and picked off Russell Wilson at the goal line. And evidently I tuned in too late to catch his defensive performance against the Rams last year 🤦♂️
@@johnnychaos152 Yes you did miss the part where Brady drove the patriots down the field to set up those field goals, the part where Brady took a paycut which allowed the patriots to rent revis so they could have a defense decent enough to go to the super bowl, you also missed the part where Brady overcame what was then tied for the largest fourth quarter deficit ever overcome against one of the best defenses in NFL history, and you also tuned in too late to catch Brady taking even more pay cuts that allowed Bellichick to once again go out and pay above his price tag for Gilmore.
Brady's sacrifice and commitment to that team are unparalleled. No 3x MVP in NFL history has sacrificed as much as Brady.
2007 - Brady went 16-0 and 18-1 overall to the Superbowl. He threw 50 TD's and only 8 INT's and over 4800yards.
2008 - Brady was injured. Matt Cassel (a ProBowl QB) took over the same team. The team lost 5 more regular season games and went 11-5, lost the division and missed the playoffs. Cassel threw only 21 TD's and 11INT's and only 3600yards.
Brady alone was worth 5 regular season wins, 1100 yards. 29 more TD's and 3 less INT's.
Matt also had over double the sacks.
11-5 is still a good record considering Matt came in a little forward toward the season. Bill made Matt from a average qb to a way above average qb
And Matt Cassel still had Randy Moss and Wes Welker, yet Brady threw more Touchdowns to Randy Moss alone in 2007, than Cassel did total touchdowns to all receivers.
Cassel did well stepping into Brady's shoes, but Brady is untouchable in level of importance to a team.
Hate when people say "BuT mAtT cAsSeL wOn 11 GaMeS"
@@lochlain7840 Brady is better at pocket movement and getting the ball out quicker before sacks
Mike Shanahan was a genius till Elway retired.
Elway never won anything until he could turn around and hand the ball to Terrell Davis.
@@jimclancy6715 jhon Elway still went to 3 super bowls with out Terrell davis
@@dennishorne9309 Ya awsum 3 blowout losses 39-20 Giants, 42-10 Redskins, 55-10 49'ers - very impressive
@@jimclancy6715 still impressive to make it to the superbowl
@@dennishorne9309 Ya awsum - puts you right up there with the Buffalo Billies
Belichick's coaching record before Brady... 42 - 58, that should end this discussion.
they needed each other, Brady was a sorry college qb who hadnt proved a thing. he wasnt a guarantee like Peyton. They both will suffer without one another.
Brady is in his 40s. Not really fair for him to give proof now.
@@iSpeakGodsWords Brady was a sorry college QB qho didnt prove anything?! Are you serious? He got the nickname comeback kid in college for always digging his team out of the hole Henson put them in AND won a bowl against Alabama. What are you saying?
Browns team that relocated to Baltimore won a SB with the same blueprint.
@@SG-jm7np But couldn't win in Cleveland with the same blueprint?
We’ve seen bill b being an head coach for 7 years without Brady and he got fired once and almost did with the pats he doesn’t call plays for offensive he gets cheap undrafted late round picks for Brady because he had the goat as qb we’ve only seen the pats really loaded offensively 2 season that’s 2007 they broke records with Brady and 2008 with Matt castle they went 11-5 but couldn’t win the division nor make the playoffs and lost every big game that year and they had an easier schedule than previous
Gabriel Frias He went 11-5 with Matt Castle that’s all that needs to be said. He obviously isn’t gonna win anything major with him as his QB so saying he didn’t win the division is irrelevant. Going 11-5 without Brady is amazing by itself. Brady has also always had an elite run game and defense thanks to bill. Not to mention he’s had Gronk Moss Welker Cooks n Edelman. You can’t say Brady has bums when he as 6 chips with those receivers, actually much worse than the guys I mentioned. So how’s it Brady ? Last year they had an elite D and a good run game. But yet Brady couldn’t lead them, simple analysis
Gabriel Frias bill was also a coach for the terrible browns in which he made them go 5-11 at worst which is great for the browns honestly. And then he came to New England where they were inconsistent every year. They’d go 11-5 in 97 then 2 years later be 8-8 then after that go 5-11.
Cassel started 0 games prior to going 11-5, so I guess that’s why people use it as evidence. In a sense it proves he was a good enough Gm to build a team so strong it could go 11-5 w/ a 1st year starter. Either way, that’s an impressive feat considering he was able to land a temporary starting job after his 2008 season.
@@idkiguess69 the year before that brady was 18/1 and broke offensive records meanwhile Cassel lost to every playoff team and averaged 20 points less and if bill was so great then why could he not win with drew who was in the superbowl with Patriots before bill went there and went 5/13 in games with drew
@@idkiguess69 brady only had cooks for 1 year and moss for 2 what was Walker before manning and brady nothing he could not keep a starting job gronk is a legend but missed a lot of games and it's funny that you dont mention Dorset hogan lafell ocho stinko givens and LOL brady has not always had a good run game especially last year LOL
Tom Brady all the way. 6 playoff wins despite giving 28 pts of higher. That’s just playoffs. Plenty of games where Brady bailed the team out after giving up so many pts. Btw bill belichick is a defensive coach that has little to no input on the offense.
How do you figure he has little to no input on the offense? Btw, football is a team sport. I love Brady but he wouldn't be as successful without having good receivers and an offensive line around him. Likewise, Belichick or any good coach for that matter, wouldn't have been successful without a good coaching staff and players. In any case, Brady didn't call the plays, the coaches did. It's called good chemistry and execution.
@@dmyth1238 It's obvious he doesn't have much input in the offense. What was Josh McDaniels for there then? He wasn't just holding the clipboard. He was making the plays for Brady. Belichick wasn't responsible for the offense nor was he ever was.
geo dude remember when bill belichick gave up 41 points to a backup quarterback?
@@actionjackson5359 yep and 2 4th qt leads with like 2 mins left as well....
Millennial Falcon isn’t he the greatest coach of all time? isn’t he a defensive mastermind?
"ToM BrAdY Is A SyStEm QuArTeRbAcK."
Tom Brady WAS the system.
Belicheck never threw a pass, never caught a ball and never made a tackle. The players on the field deserve most of the credit.
Your right. But somehow people like max kellerman will say "oh but bill belichick coaches them." 😆 like STFU max you never played sports either.
@@nesseihtgnay9419 Coaching > talent. Brady got a few superbowls strictly because of defensive play... defensive plays that the coaching staff implemented because they watched the tape. If you think a bunch of stars can take the field and beat the other team without a proper game plan then you don't understand football and how it works. After all, according to your theory the Browns who draft in the top 10 every year should be the best team in football regardless of the coaching staff, amirite?
@@user-ed9wj1df3r exactly but i bet you would defend players like aaron rodgers or patrick mohomes saying they are the reason whole team wins or lose. but the players are the ones to make it happen, the plan is just the plan, but without players plans dont work, i play high school football on DB, QB and slot WR. and street flag football, what do you play.
@@nesseihtgnay9419 Answer this: if you didn't have a coach, how many games would you win?
@@user-ed9wj1df3r dude all they do is make plans. But you can't coach or plan greatness from a player like aaron Rodgers who can throw when he's being hit. Or you can't coach what tom brady sees in the pocket and changes plays and call out the defense plans. That's all players.
Also People always like to bring up “well they did go 11-5 with Matt cassel”
Uh...yay? Wasn’t that team 1 miracle helmet catch away from perfection the prior year? And literally broke offensive records at the time?
Going from 16-0 regular season to 11-5 and missing the playoffs is still a pretty steep drop off. And without even looking I’m guessing they went from the number 1 offense to a steep drop off without Brady that next year under cassel.
eoe123321 Just 5 games huh. With that Great of A Team Just 5 Games smh
@eoe123321 that means brady was worth 5 wins, which is a lot. Yes its impressive he won 11 games with matt Cassel, but matt Cassel also had a pro bowl year with Kansas city. If that 07 team was 13-3 that year rather than 16-0 and they lost 5 more games than the previous year and went 8-8 this wouldn't be a discussion
eoe123321 I think my point is that the Current patriots roster doesn’t have anywhere NEAR the talent that 07/08 roster had. That team had the most talented roster in the nfl. Hands down. So even with a bad quarterback, yes he did well. But well isn’t really the standard in New England. I could see bill working magic and getting 9-7 or 10-6 out of the next season or 2, sure. But without Brady they won’t be coming close to sniffing another championship with that shambles of a roster.
@eoe123321 Matt Cassel made a pro bowl with the Chiefs. He was still a very capable QB.
@eoe123321 7 game dropoff actually because they went 18-1 with Brady. Very close to a perfect 19-0. You need to include the playoffs in those games. Which Matt Cassel couldnt even bring them too. That's like the difference between going 7-9 to 14-2. Huge difference
It’s definitely more about Brady than Bill. I’ve never seen Bill on the field throwing a touchdown once. He’s not even an offensive coach, so he doesn’t get the credit for developing Brady. The Patriots didn’t have a legacy until Brady got there. He is the whole legacy of the Patriots.
Millennial Falcon tell me one thing BB did as a head coach without Brady. Just like in college Brady won won won. BB had Bledsoe and did nothing. Only time we didn’t make playoffs was year Brady was hurt. And we won’t make the playoffs this year either.
Millennial Falcon yeah great players like Chris Hogan? A Randy moss out of his prime. Wes walker who did NOTHING after Brady. (Even with Peyton) I mean come on bro. Yeah Brady has some good players but facts are facts. We have only won with Brady. We didn’t win with bill when Brady was hurt. Hmmm
@@justinperrotta2701 umm Welker was more productive in the redzone with Peyton than he ever was in NE.
BB implemented a dominant defensive system that was the driving force behind the dynasty. Which is why NE has never won a superbowl without a top 8 scoring defense.
Matt Twiss lmao. Yeah cuz unless Brady put up 45-50 points we wouldn’t win. Great defense. Smh
The player that was the most responsible for the patriot dynasty was Mo Lewis. Without him Brady was wearing headphones and a clipboard and Belicheck was about to be fired and made a defensive coordinator...true story.
@@williammcmillan9050 Considering at the time he was days away from being fired he wouldn't have had the chance.
Poizie Gaming BB was not going to get fired after 3 or 4 games in his 2nd season
@@bigbill4368 yes , actually there was a good chance. I'm a Pats fan and the insiders I listen to say that there were whispers that after the 5-11 , then starting 0-2 the next season, Kraft started telling people in the organization that he think he'd made a mistake at head coach, but other senior people on the Pats staff told him to hold off and let it play out, then Mo Lewis tried to kill Bledsoe. And the rest is history......
It would have been so great to see a Max Kellerman rebuttal to Greeny's facts 😂
Danny Corprew i was thinking the same thing!
@Ronnie B I can't stand him... But he has a way of growing in you... Like them old man mold you get when you start to get you age 😂
Absolutely spot on Greeney!
ESPN posted this statistic; Belichick’s record with Brady as QB 219-64, and without Brady as QB 18-19.
@John Babcock his record is now 25-28 without Brady bc they just finished a 7-9 campaign. Meanwhile the real 🐐 was down in Tampa Bay winning yet another superbowl and superbowl MVP award and took a 7-9 team to 15-5 (including the playoffs). The overrated coach in New England has coached exactly 10 seasons without Tom Brady. He has losing records in 8 of them and missed the playoffs entirely in 9 of them. Brady was clearly more responsible for the dynasty in New England for all those years over Bill Belichick.
Brady 75% credit
BB 25% credit
This is more like a seperartion than a divorce
That's fair.
I totally agree with greene
Dexter Johnson bill does not call offense only defense.... also bill has got 9 rings so I mean
@@kaihaken5200 8
Bill belichek doesn't throw TDs. Bill wants credit he clearly doesn't fully deserve.
What??? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 It ALL starts from the coach, real sports players know that.
TheSco415city ok then why did everybody get on Mike McCarthy when he was coaching the packers and give all the credit to Aaron Rodgers 😂😂
@@TheSco415city what does bill even do for a living ? He has a offensive head coach , assistant offensive head coach , defensive head coach , assistant defensive head coach, special teams coach , water boy, general manager, and tom brady who throws touch downs ... All he does is sit on sideline like Tom's personal cheerleader? Does he feed him oranges at halftime? Does he give him naked massages before the game to loosen him up? Lay on puddles so tom doesn't get his shoes wet? Washes toms uniform uniform after game? What does he even do for a living ?????😂😂😂😂
@@joeyj4714 bill is the defensive coach. He may not be "THE" defensive coach but he is a defensive minded coach. Kinda like kyle shannahan. He is a offensive minded coach but he still has a offensive coach. Also he is also the GM
TheSco415city - They just gave you 100 reasons Brady Is the reason for the Patriots success. Numbnuts
Man was proven right. Good cahonas on this man.
Brady is the greatest of all time. It’s going to be unreal seeing him on the Bucs now.
The GOAT. Period.
Xavier - FACT... You mad?
A GOAT needs an offensive line to keep his jersey clean, a running game (Clock-killing Cory Dillon, Blunt force Trauma LaGarrett Blount) a great defense Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Richard Seymour, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Dante Hightower. Remember each title team had top 10 defenses.
Great special teams from game-winning kicks from Adam Viniateri, Gostowski, and Malcolm Mitchell.
Gronk, Edelman, Randy Moss and Troy Brown are great editions.
You say Brady. I say team.
One person is responsible for that entire team even TB12 himself and his development.
Bill Belichick as both GM and head coach. He did the shopping and cook the meals.
Only cap space prevented him
@@terrancethomas9792 - Tom Brady was the engineer of all those team's. Patriots win NOTHING without Tom Brady. GOAT and everyone knows it.
@@ckalnicki , even GOATS needs shepherds.
@@terrancethomas9792 - No, they needed Brady. He wins. Period.
Finally somebody brings up Bill without Brady
Definitely Brady...what a stupid debate. It's a players league. Pull Brady away from Belichick and he sucks period! Brady leaves for Tampa and wins the Super bowl , Belichick goes back to his losing ways 7-9.
This does not take away from Swagu's garbage brick background.
😂😂😂
Belichick wont be in the playoffs next season but Brady will!
This aged well
@@benjaminaddo9403 facts!
Nice
This is even more apparent as the season goes on. Brady is 5-2 and top 3 in MVP running after week 7. The Patriots are now 2-4 and the NE offense looks like a dumpster fire and couldn't score a touchdown if their lives depended on it.
Brady is definitely more responsible for the dynasty. Doesn't take away from Belichick because he's still the GOAT coach.
I want you to look at nearly every Pats Super Bowl. 01 Brady GW drive, 03 GW Drive, 04 Bill came thru, 07 Brady GW drive only to have Eli get him, 11 Eli GW drive, 14 Brady comes back from 10 down they almost lose, 16 28-3 enough said, 2017 Nick Foles lights them up Brady throws 500 still loses, 17 Bill came thru. Brady bailed Bill out a lot.
Down 28-3 the defense didn’t give up any more points and only 3 first downs but u giving Brady the credit? Game winning drives where the kicker won the game yet u giving Brady the credit? Brady doesn’t kick tackle catch or block yet u overlooking that
@@doobie176 The Falcons' speedy pass rush was all over Brady in the first half. It was like Super Bowl 42 all over again. Once they started wearing down, Brady completely took over the game.
As for the defense, they looked completely inept until midway through the 3rd quarter. They'd already given up 3 touchdowns. It was the Patriots' offense putting together those long drives that allowed the defense to rest and throw off the Falcons' offense. Look at the time of possession for further proof of this.
@@markrobinson9394 I agree. people always forget that one of main reasons that Bill has good defenses is because Brady and his long drives keep them rested so they can perform when it really matters. Otherwise they'll be gased
At the end of the day...players gotta make plays. Brady made plays.
Something to keep in mind. The Patriots scoring offense has only ranked outside of the top 10 once. In 2003 it was 12th. And it has only ranked 10th twice. Also when Matt Cassel started in 2008 both the scoring offense and scoring defense fell. In 2009 both went up. Obviously there is a relationship between Brady's play style and defensive scoring. The Patriots also have 13 straight seasons scoring 400+ points an NFL record. To suggest that Brady is a system quarterback who needs a great defense is flat out wrong. Especially when you consider in 6 Superbowl wins Tom Brady has 6 game winning drives and in 3 Superbowl losses the defense gave up 3 game winning drives.
Dont forget the National Championship in college
Bill is getting payback for Tom running off his future QB. Bill is a spiteful person. Why would any team get rid of a GOAT QB? Makes zero sense.
Zero
Without a replacement plan? pure spite
First of all, that story was debunked by both the 49ers and Patriots. 2nd Belichick didnt get rid of Brady. Brady walked out on his own free will. As Kraft said, If Brady wanted to stay he would have
Actually Tom didn't run off his QB ! Belichick wanted to Trade Brady and keep Garapalo !
Kraft told him No trade Jimmy G.
In hindsight Brady would've been better off if he had gone to his "Boyhood" dream team SF, he would've won how many SB'S with them, the Pat's would've won 0 !!
@Haywood Jablowme he is still better than 90% of the QB's in the NFL.
Maybe Belichik was pulling Brady down. Anybody thought of that?
Maybe Brady succeeded despite Belichik .
Yes
Look at what Brady does when he has weapons
Probably not happenstance that Brady got his blowout super bowl win without him.
Brady made Belichick, it's that simple. I'll use the example of my favorite baseball team the Yankees. George Steinbrenner wouldn't be known today the way he is without having the talent he had in the 70's and 90's. Joe Torre took over as manager in '96 as a gamble by Steinbrenner. Without the 1992 draft class of Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettitte he wouldn't have won 4 WS in 5 years. A coach/manager/owner needs the talent to make his name known, it's that simple.
It's a dumb question too. Belichick isn't even an offensive specialist. This question is more relevant for Coach Bill Walsh, the genius offensive coach for the 49ers.
Can’t argue with the facts
You cant
Stephen Smith says hold my beer.
@eoe123321 Then please list these inferential stats. I'm getting bored with these lame, clear, immediate stats.
I still think John McKay was the greatest coach of all time. His quips were priceless. Not a lot of winning there. But the interviews were priceless.
I don't think that's Dan's hand... LMAO I think that's why he's smirking. It's hilarious.
He’s right , popovich without duncan, Phil Jackson without Kobe and Jordan , bellichic without Brady
Look guys, I'm from Boston, and been a Patriots fan my entire life.
I played college football. I know, not in that league, but football still the same. As great as Belichick is, you have to factor one vital point. On the offense in football, the offensive coordinator designs & calls the plays. However, he must let the head coach see & decide if their going to be effective. Saying that, they go over each play with Brady. Practice after grueling practice, until it's second nature to him. However, there are times that the defense of the opposing team sniffs out the play, and Brady must think on his feet as he's got two or three 300 pounders coming to kill him. He's got to change the play at the line of scrimmage, and audible. Name another NFL quarterback that's been as good at that than Tom Brady. You can't! Tom Brady's football IQ, savy play, and just overall smarts is what made him the game's best. Does anyone truly believe that Belichick could have had this kind of winning percentage with any other QB? Manning, Montana, Brees, Marino or anyone else? Now yeah, some of you may say "Sure, definitely Joe Montana". But as great as Joe Cool was, he wasn't Tom Brady. He just wasn't. Just look at both winning percentages. It's staggering! "But Joe never threw a pick in a Super Bowl game, and Brady has!" you might say. Sure, but Joe only went to four Super Bowls. Brady has been to NINE! The odds obviously go way up if you go to five more, don't you think? So, all I'm saying is that in my unprofessional opinion, it's not even a question which of the two were most responsible for New England's run of success over two decades. Unequivocally, it's been Tom Brady hands down. Not even close. And I'll give just one more example. Look at the Boston Celtics of the 1980's. Yes, they had Bill Fitch in Larry's first couple of seasons, (Who Bird still says is the best coach he's ever had). And then it was K.C. Jones, another Hall of Fame head coach. But Bird was very similar to Brady. They both were not the best athletes. Bird was considered very slow moving, not fast, and couldn't jump very high at all. So, what were the keys to his success in Boston? The exact same as Tom Brady's. Number one, work ethic. They both just constantly worked harder on their game than anyone else on the team. Number two, Not worrying about what they couldn't do great, but tirelessly working on what they did do well. And number three, and most importantly, their IQ in their sport! Larry Bird's basketball IQ remains the best in NBA history. And so dies Tom Brady's. Bird & Brady were always one to two steps ahead of their opponents. That folks, is the key! Bird was slow and couldn't leap, yet he was always up their in rebounding and getting down the floor to defend. Brady had a very good arm, but not a cannon like some others. He couldn't run either, but his pocket presence is like no other. So, that's my personal opinion on this subject. Bill Belichick is without any doubt the greatest head coach in NFL history, if not in all of American team sports. But like I've said, you need the player to carry out your calls. Especially when things don't go the way their intended to go. And finally, if you've still got any doubt? Look at Larry Bird's teammates during the 80's. He actually had great, great teammates to work with, but somehow still made them perform at a much higher level. Especially Robert Parrish. Parrish was traded to Boston from the Golden State Warriors. With the Warriors, Parrish was considered a very good center, but certainly not a great one. When he got to the Celtics, everything changed. Bird made a concerted effort to get him the ball inside as much as possible. And then look what happened. Parrish went on to become one of the best & most feared centers in the league! And in that 1981-82 season, Robert Parish was 20'th in the league in scoring. At 19.9 points a game, 8th in rebounding, 10.8 RPG, and registered a team high 192 blocks, 5th best in the NBA. Now look at Tom Brady. He did the same thing. He did the same thing. They both had that uncanny talent of making their teammates around them so much better than they would have had they had another star player. But Brady even goes a step higher than Bird. What I mean by that, is that look at their supporting cast. Larry Bird had much better talent around him most of his 13 seasons in the NBA. Tom Brady did not! Not even debatable. Bird played with Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, The late, great D.J.! (Dennis Johnson), and of course, for a few incredible seasons, center Bill Walton. But he also had Danny Ainge, M.L.Carr, Cedric Maxwell, Tiny Archibald, Gerald Henderson, Quinn Buckner, and the timely, great three-point shooter Scott Wedman. Our of just those players I've mentioned, FOUR of them are NBA Hall of Famers! And that was in just 13 seasons. Now, let's just quickly look at Tom Brady's offensive teammates that are, or will be Hall of Famers in the course his 20 seasons with the New England Patriots. Wide Reciever Randy Moss, and I believe tight end Rob Gronkowski will be inducted eventually. So, there you have it folks! My point? Larry Bird & Tom Brady always had that incredible talent of making sub-par players look awesome while playing with them. Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, (who actually came out of Kent State University as a back-up quarterback) both played with Tom Brady as wide receivers, and both of them were turned into incredible talents on the field. So folks, my long-winded answer is definitely not Bill Belichick, it's most definitely, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr!
Paul Sullivan Larry Bird played with 5 hall of famers.
@@robertchamblissjr570 Is that really relevant?
Ive played fb , followed fb for 50 yrs and w/o tom brady they would have had 0 sb without the goat .. i dont care about brady but he's mr clutch
Dan did not hear Marcus' full explanation before jumping in. In actual fact, all 3 pundits are clearly in favor of the star player being more responsible for the team's success than the coach. However, Bill Belichick has admitted already that coaches don't win games for the team, but bad coaching can certainly lose games, as shown by Andy Reid's recent showing at Superbowl LV. Andy may have been distracted by his son's recent accident.
Bro you can’t say soliloquy. That’s Stephen A Smith. 🤦♂️
I’ve never seen his dad before. They look just alike
They’re the same age
Daquan Greene they sound just alike too
@@randomupdates4013 , Wait what
Lucid Cactus humor
Daquan Greene who would have guessed! :D
Steve Kerr was considered a great coach; till all the injuries.
Now the W's have a chance to win the Draft Lottery.
hahaha
Football and Basketball dont compare
@@damianpresha5155
LOL
Not comparing, both sports.
Comparing, the perception of coaches that had great a player/players & now don't.
Personally think The Hoodie will still be a formidable foe.
Time will tell!!
@@saint6563 Not the same Bill have control of 53 man roster since he was hired. And was responsible for drafting Brady so it goes to Bill either way.
@@damianpresha5155
What?!?!
You completely changed your argument.
First it was the sports weren't the same [duh/yet success and or coaching style can be compared].
Now it's one coach is also the GM & one coach doesn't hold both positions.
The specific Steve Kerr reference was only to demonstrate actual results. Coaches, in general, being praised when having the best player/players in a particular league; yet those same successful coaches don't succeed at the same rate w/o the best player/players in the league.
It's a simple proven again and again over time adage.
Don't over think it!
Stay safe.
@@saint6563 Hold up yall know Bill was a great defensive coordinator first right?Where kerr wasnt?
Now it seems that with any other couch Brady would have 15 rings already at least. Belichick was actually a handicap. What a joke to still say he is the best couch of team sports. He is one of the worst.
I'm 75 the game has changed a lot just 25 years nobody would ever say that a coach is some one you keep over a great QB when Rogers got sick of his coach the coach went and as much as I like Rogers he has not come close to Brady. Belichick is being blown way up because of the jealous hate people have for Brady. I can think of many coaches better then old man Belichick.
"Name a HC in the discussion of greatest of all time whose won without a guy who was thought to be the greatest ever or top 1 0r 2 in his time" Uh Joe Gibbs who won a Superbowl with 3 different starting QBs would like to have a word. Shoot Don Shula would like to have a word as well if we're being honest.
These are compelling examples.
Shula coached 3 HOF quarterbacks wdym?
@@makowakeo Bob Griese was never considered the G.O.A.T
@@makowakeo Shula never won the Super Bowl with Marino. Griese was arguably never top 1-2 QB in the NFL at any juncture. He also never won a Super Bowl with Unitas.
That was the worst football decision that I can remember getting rid of Brady. SMH. Why worry about tomorrow when you can win today. Tb12
True but this is way better for Brady.
@@RanmyakuJouten TB12
What was Bill’s record during his coffee break as Jets Head Coach though?
I'm amazed at how often these types of shows bring up great topics and give them so little time. It boggles the mind.
Aged like fine wine
Aged even better now
Yes let’s keep hyping this up lol I’m ready for the new season already
Ratoya Banks you ain’t ready for it yet
You'd take MY mind off Football !! Tom Who !!!💘
I will never forgive BB for benching Butler during SuperBowl 52. Throwing away a championship in spite
I don't want to hear people talk about Bill going a 11-5 with Matt and not making the playoffs because the year before that Tom went 16-0 and went to the Superbowl and barley lost and it is very hard to go 16-0
Alex Walker the year after tom went 10-6 so by your own theory they got worse
Dan missed Marcus’s point entirely this time
"You're wrong and here's why..."
-Stephen A. Smith's next video
No mention of Vince Lombardi and Bart Starr, Paul Hornung, Jim Taylor, etc.? Ever heard of the Lombardi Trophy? What an oversight.
I love this take! Some people forget what Brady has done; they think BB can just put anyone under center and win. TB12 is soooo clutch and we see it year after year.
It was always Brady, way back when he used to coach the browns they stunk.
Tom Brady a.k.a. THE GOAT.
Marcus is right. No great player, no great coach can be recognized, but it's more than that. You can't hypothetically split up a tandem and expect to learn anything from it. Partnerships win the games and they are greater than the sum of the parts. I think a lot of men benefit from this when they have the right wife and the wife is not gonna get credit for what the guy accomplished because it's not what catches the eye. Get over that, a lot of guys are nothing without their women. A lot of great players did nothing because they had no coaching, and vice versa. Enjoy it for what it was. And now Tom and Bruce will be another great pairing. It's a team sport. Don't separate these people from each other.
Thank you
Bill B . Is great , but it will alway be the players that play the game . Tom 70/30 Bill
Thank you thank you thank you for this great video,,,I've been making this argument forever and this proves without a doubt it was Brady,,,you cant argue facts
I was a Patriota fan, and now realize that it was because of Tom Brady. Now I'm a Bucs fan. However, Belichick did not have GM role in the other teams that he has in NE. We shall see what happens...
Just hard for me to comprehend someone jot running the plays not on the field/court having MORE of a impact on the outcome. U can have impact. But MORE? U didn’t throw those passes. U didn’t make the defense tremble being under center. Etc.
Vince Lombardi was considered one of the greatest, who was the players he had? Other then Bart Starr? When Joe Montana left,didn't Steve Young win a superbowl in Walsh's system? Although Shula didn't help Marino get a ring,he still won the most games ever and won 3 superbowls. So to say a coach can't be the reason for success is asinine.
Tom brady is the Greatest of all time!
5:34 States that in no other sport do we debate whether it was the coach or the player that made the team great then begins to list a bunch of basketball coaches and players as if there are only 2 sports that exist.
Just like Brady said on Stern: it's a dumb argument
Swagu's point gets shot down when you look at LeBron James' coaches.
No, he's saying when you mention a coach in the greatest of all time discussion, more often than not he has a great player as well. He's not saying the reverse is correct as well.
No because LeBron Ain t the goat
Ya'll completely misunderstood what he was saying. He never said that a player couldn't be great without also having a great coach. He didn't say that at all. He just said that you can't find any of the greatest all time coaches who didn't also have some of the greatest players.
I was thinking the same thing. Remember when they used to say Eric Spoelstra was a goat coach? And they they said Ty Lue was a good coach?
@@jordancooper8633 and neither is the dude folks claim is
Brady is way more responsible
People forget Belichick was on the verge of getting fired for a second time in early 2001. They were 0-2 after finishing 5-11 the previous season. And if he got canned that would've been it for him as a Head coach; he'd never have gotten another opportunity.
Stats are stats and Greenberg makes an extremely compelling case. Even with Matt Cassell's 11-5 season, BB is still just 19-19 in NE w/ Quarterbacks not named Tom Brady. With Brady, what; 219-64 or something absurd like that? And as BB has said over and over again, after every big win, "it's a players game." I think he believes that. They're the ones out there executing on the field and on the court. That always matters most, especially at the professional level where everyone's the best.
To those who are using BB's coaching record prior to coming to the Patriots I say this: Ownership/GM's affect the head coach's ability to do his job. Prior to NE, BB wasn't given full control. Bob Kraft started his ownership of the Patriots the way Jerry Jones runs the Cowboys and it wasn't until he lost Bill Parcels and Pete Carrol (both HOF worthy coaches) did he learn that the head coach knows more about football than he does and he should let the coach do the job he was brought in to do. That's why Kraft just sits back, hoists Lombardi's and get happy endings while Jerry Jones can't get a competent coach to take the job because everyone knows what a control freak he is.
ETA: Lastly, BB the coach today isn't the same person he was prior to joining the Patriots so any comparison assuming his success (or lack thereof) will pick up right where it left off is lying to themselves. BB has evolved and so has his circumstances so only time will tell how much of it was Brady vs. Belichick.
Brady is clearly the primary reason the Pats became the best team in football.
You need both, but Bill did show that he wasn't big time without Brady.
Bill had to assemble the team, get the right players around him, put in plays that would put them in the best postion to win. Give tom plays that wouldnt show his weakness. Literally in football the coach is the most important part of a team
Shandon Rolle bill doesn’t coach offense or call plays for offensive he got cheap undrafted late round picks for Brady because he had the goat as qb we’ve only seen the pats really loaded offensively 2 season that’s 2007 they broke records with Brady and 2008 with Matt castle they went 11-5 but couldn’t win the division nor make the playoffs and lost every big game that year and they had an easier schedule than previous
Bill had three rings with the giants as a defensive genius... he was the architect of those NYG teams that won three... he does not coach offense either so stop it
I like how you said, "Bill did show that he wasn't big time without Brady." That tells me everything I need to know about Brady's greatness.
Kaihaken Bill got 2 rings not three, but he had Bill Parcell’s and GOAT Lawrence Taylor. Without GOATS Tom Brady or Lawrence Taylor, Bill has 0 rings. It’s the players. Tom>Bill
Bill was a failure as an head coach without Brady. Under .500 coach. That,s just a cold hard fact. Deal with it.
stéphane A But he won 2 SB’s as a coordinator. The Browns was an impossible situation
EMWELL the browns were a playoff team 5 of the 6 years before bill got there. He took them to the playoffs once in 7 years. That’s horrible
Don't fight about it...just enjoy....cuz you will never ever see this again.
In my eyes, Bill Belichick is an average coach and this year we will witness this for sure. That man thinks he is bigger than the owner, other coaches and the players he's got the biggest ego. As a patriots fan I never really appreciated his work because he gets caught cheating every other year. I give Brady 80%, BB 15% and assistant coaches 5%.
You look at bill and the players that play in new england who are successful, and when they change teams they are a big let down. Pherhaps bill just needed some offensive help, bill is more defensive than offensive.
Bill is a good coach but Brady was the reason! I can’t to see him light it up with evans and godwin and decent tight ends
They complimented each other. Belichick taught everything he knows about defense to Tom Brady. ie What to look for, when you know a blitz is coming, how you know the safeties will drop etc.
Brady's move to Tampa is easily the best thing for football.
Tony dungy only got into the hall of fame was because of peyton Manning. Sean Payton will only go to the hall of fame was because of drew brees. Just like bill belichick became the greatest was because of tom Brady.
Brady is the GOAT. Seems like alot of folks are overlooking Josh McDaniels, he was instrumental to the offense maybe more than Belichek.
Atlas302 how did his offense do in Denver without Brady?????????
Although at times I do not agree with Greenberg, he had the facts and statistics to prove his argument. Well done sir, well done.
you know, it's actually pretty entertaining to go and read all the comments on a video like this :-)
Brady doesnt play defense. Hes also just 1 of 11. He also played on a team where in his first 3 superbowl wins the defense and adam vinatieri carried the team....not to mention Belichick's cheating. Sorry gotta give Belichick most of the credit.
AS J too bad Brady doesn’t play defense. Patriots would have beat the Eagles. Brady threw for 500 yards and his defense couldn’t stop a backup QB from dropping 40+ points on them.
How many points Tom Brady’s offense scored in his first super bowl run:
Against Oakland: 16
Against Pittsburgh: 0
Against Rams: 13
The Patriots won all 3 games. This isn’t close Bill is clearly more important.
Bill was 5-13 with Bledsoe before Brady took over. He started the season 0-2 with him and then Brady stepped in and they won the superbowl.
Daniel Pezzi Did you not watch the video? Brady had to bail out Belechiks defense many more times because they let up so many points when it matters. How come when the patriots went undefeated in 2007 and then a year later with the same team except Matt Cassel at qb, they didn’t even make the playoffs?
RaiD Frenzy they went 11-5 and since then no 11-5 team has not made the playoffs. Brady’s luck at it again
J Black Did Bellicheck get knocked out of that game? No they won. Bc Brady isn’t that important. Could you imagine the Packers winning a playoff game without Rodgers? No
Daniel Pezzi Mr. 1-3 in NFC championship games?
I'm Redskins fan and I can say Joe Gibbs is the greats Coach of All Time. 3 Super Bowl wins with 3 different QB's and 3 Different running backs. Name another NFL coach to do that.?
I concur! Most of the O-line stayed in tact over that time... But that's it. Joe basically won three Superbowls with three different teams for the same organization! No other coach has ever won three Superbowls with three different QBs.. we will never see that again in any of our lifetimes!!
When you add, "clearly" to a sentence, it makes it a fact, of course lol
Don Shula is considered either the greatest or second greatest head coach in NFL history and not one of his players are listed as a top 5 player at their position at any point. Marcus Spears you are wrong.
Yeah this is so wrong greeny is so wrong. I didn’t know Tom Brady was responsible for getting the great players that Tom Brady played with and that great defense and the running game and the good offense of line I didn’t know Tom Brady was responsible for all that.
Mike Greenberg gave the best explanation ever for why Brady is definitely more the reason for the Patriots success. Absolutely brilliant argument the best ever.
Why didn’t mike talk about the tuck rule?