The New Debate! To Warm Or Not To Warm Up Your Engine? Is It Really A Question, Or A Bunch Of Bunk?!
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 12. 2022
- Please Like, Comment, and Share. Be sure to subscribe for future videos. Don't forget to hit the bell icon for notifications. CZcams has changed what they show subscribers!
Subaru Specialty Tools - www.amazon.com/shop/mrsubaru1...
Subaru Head Gasket Essentials - www.amazon.com/shop/mrsubaru1...
Subaru Timing Belt Essentials - www.amazon.com/shop/mrsubaru1...
StoreFront - www.amazon.com/shop/mrsubaru1387
If you like the vids and want to help make more: paypal.me/MrSubaru1387
----I assume no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. I recommend safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond my control, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not myself.---- - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Mechanical Engineer here. I always warm any cold engine at least 20-30 seconds before driving regardless of outdoor temperature to allow for good oil circulation and thermal expansion of the metal parts to happen so that design clearances are obtained prior to applying a load (driving). Modern oils aren't a major issue down to pretty cold temperatures, viscosity wise, but the amount of oil between bearing surfaces (as a designed system) is dependent on proper clearances which is highly dependent on the engine reaching design temperature. That is why you shouldn't "drive hard" with a cold engine. With proper lubrication, all loads are borne by the oil and not any metal to metal contact. Most wear occurs during startup in modern engines. Or more realistically, due to improper maintenance or operation.
Wow a whole 20-30 seconds, you sound like a soccer mom
As an engineer, you are aware that there is a vast difference between driving hard after a cold start and gently starting off and remaining gentle on the throttle until the operator can see some movement on the temp gauge or feel some heat from the vents. This is such nonsense. At this point the "debate" should be well settled, because it has been the subject of so much professional research and testing, many decades and many millions of dollars. It is only those who think they know better than all those technicians and their findings that continue "debating".
@@jthomas3773 sounds like you’ve been triggered & your annoyed by a professional providing good information. Or maybe your just an asshole.
I've personally seen a motor that was taken apart that was started and saw that it took the oil less than a second to completely flood the motor. Plus, based on my experience on starting my vehicle and driving off, regardless of the temperature, it has never resulted in any major problems in the last 8 years I've had my car. Back in the day, warming them up made sense with the carburetors, but now it's not necessary.
My 1990 Pontiac Sunbird's engine absolutely ran better after letting it idle two minutes (and switched from closed loop to open loop operation). Even the manufacturers know to control the startup procedure manually (through computer software programming) prior to allowing the sensor inputs to dictate how the engine's running. So I let mine idle even longer to warm up.
I don't do that for my 2002 Subaru, though. I've yet to determine exactly why it performs so much better, but I'm assuming (presently) that it has to do with the aluminum block and superior systems, etc.
I'm not a mechanic, nor an engineer. Just a girl who loves her Subaru. But I did grow up working on cars and I do understand a bit about engines. I live in CO and I have always let my cars warm up at least until my RPMs drop. To me it's just common sense. It seems like that is the car's way of signaling that it's reached operating temperature and is ready to go. Can't imagine we wouldn't have heard about this long ago if it was a legitimate issue. Thanks for another great video!
I think the purpose of that is to get the catalytic converter up to temperature so it can do its thing.
I do that too! I also live in Colorado and drive a Subaru ( I know driving a Subaru in Colorado is not rare at all lol)
My BRZ idles for a minute or two before the rpm drops, by then I know the car's good to go but I always give it a tad longer to be safe, I live in Arizona and I do this always not to mention
That's what I thought my old lady, her name is Heather too.
I’m the same way with my WRX! Always wait for the rpms to drop
I saw the exact "Verified" report a few days ago. It made me laugh out loud! The absolute ignorance of the statements from those so-called "technicians." I'm a lifelong mechanic/technician, engine builder and automotive machinist. And their excuses of why you don't warm your engine is the most ignorant statements I've ever heard!
well the engineering/engineers do bear this out, and fleets of gas vehicles acknowledge this, though of course practical demands are a factor too, ie the need for driver to be warm enough to operate vehicle safely!
I've driven in Canada for well nigh 50 years now. From a stone cold engine in the morning, I've always let the engine warm up a bit while I scrape the windows and brush off the snow. You need a bit of heat in the cooling system to prevent your windows fogging up. Also it certainly doesn't hurt to let the oil warm up a bit for better lubrication before you hit the road, modern viscosities not withstanding. I've put 295,000 km (180,000 miles) on my current vehicle without any issues.
Nah you're burning up all your oil
You can actually hear how helpful the warm up is when it’s -25 outside, plus as you said you can’t see shit when the inside of the windows freeze and the defrosters r still shooting cold air
@@philpyung4831 Most persons are not going jump into a car in -10deg C or colder and start driving, unless they are pressed for time (and that can be a hazard). Most Canadians are going to start the car, and while the car is warming up (engine & cabin), they clear the snow/ice from the windows or wait....Also as the poster indicated if we start to drive before the car actually warms up it becomes a hazard. The windows fog up and you cant see jack.....When I just moved to Canada I didn't know that and tried what you suggest...had to pull over and wait or risk hitting someone or something. Nah let that oil burn. 245,000+ km and counting.
I use to do the same routine when I lived in North Dakota when it was -25F in the morning.
I am in Québec . As you are aware I think Ms. Winter is harsher out here . I scrape the ice then get into the car and drive at around 20-40 kms it does not take long before the engine is warm and you can feel it then increase my speed never had any problems as such.
I follow the advice in my Subaru handbook and let it warm up until the blue temperature light goes out. The Manufacturer knows best. 😊👍
I made a big investment and had a petrol heater installed in my 2014 Forester XT. Living in Sweden, it is a nice feeling to have a warm engine and cabin before taking off when it's well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit :)
Great video on warming up your Subaru engine in the cold. As Robert explains around 14:40, the importance of warming up to warm idle is paramount. As the owner of two Foresters and working on countless other Subarus with CVT’s over the years. Warming up your engine to the point of warm base idle (closed loop) will also preserve your CVT. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at high idle eventually ruins the forward / reverse clutches in the CVT. After tearing apart a few CVT’s with worn out forward / reverse clutches and returning them to the owner upon completion of rebuild. I have the owner start and drive the car. In every instance, the owner starts the car and puts it into gear at high idle. It is at this point where I try to explain why the forward / reverse clutches on their CVT failed. Depending on whether you put your CVT equipped vehicle in gear at high RPM or low RPM can and will make the difference between your CVT lasting 50,000 miles or 500,000 miles. The worse is when you are in high idle, put it in reverse to let’s say, back out of a driveway. While still at high idle, you put it in drive. Those are two transmission engagements at high idle which is double bad. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at low idle could be the single most important thing you can do to extend the life of your CVT. As I’ve told my kids who also drive CVT equipped Subarus. Only put it into gear at high idle if you are being chased by zombies, werewolves or criminals.
So very true!
@@coreturkoane5570 This is true of manuals as well. I just bought a 23 crosstrek and it races 1800RPM in warmup. You work the clutch very differently when its idling that high. I took me a while to get used to it and I'm sure I put more wear and tear on the clutch in that time. Now if I engage a gear at that idle, I don't add any gas with the gas pedal at all. Doing so can easily cause you to get a slight burning smell. If I could turn off the high idle, I would. I don't like it at all.
@@mbeacom21 so you have to wait until it's warmed up to operating temperature then?
@@coreturkoane5570 No, I just don't use any gas. I let the high revs power the movement. Seems to work well enough.
@@mbeacom21 ok, yeah I wouldn't use the accelerator either.
I am in Canada, and I use the electric block heater to keep the block warm, saves fuel by the engine going off fast idle a lot sooner, and the cabin warms up faster as well.
I totally agree with you, warm it up, let fluids get warm and flowing properly and let the metals warm up to expand to normal tolerances
Exactly! That's why I start, drive slow and let it warm up much faster than sitting.
@@jake51515 yep, slow driving is literally warming up a car... But better. People act like sitting at idle does something different under the hood. Letting the oil pump circulate oil while driving slowly will get oil around the engine and up to temp faster than idling.
Congratulations, someone who finally correctly says "end-quote" instead of "un-quote". And as always, great information.
Upon starting my Forester, I always wait until the high idle drops down to about 700 rpm before driving. It just feels right to do so. And yes I always wait for the blue light to go out.
That's how I roll. Just drive sensibly once the idle drops. Remember that cvt needs to warm up also.
I have a 2015 Forester XT 2.0 and I always wait for that little blue light to go out and idle to drop. I watch a YT video several years ago and the guy said there's a heat exchanger on the Forester that uses the coolant to warm up the CVT transmission fluid. I don't want to take any chances and cause my transmission to wear out prematurely. I already replaced it at 115k because of the front differential going bad and it's part of the transmission internals.....$8k
The light goes off at 140 deg
@@ihatesocialnetworkin I've owned two Foresters and the blue light on each would always go off at 122F.
I am with you with this. Runs better with lower rpms.
I agree with your opinion completely. FYI my 1999 Subaru outback 30 anniversary currently has 1.19 million miles on it I attributed to two things. As we put most of the miles on it in Northern Vermont we always warmed our engine up number two I have always done regular maintenance on it and when one item goes I replaced the other one also such as a CV joint or shocks anything that comes in pairs or quads. The first thing we did when we bought our new Subaru was literally driving to a remote start installation service and installed a aftermarket remote start and I had them set the runtime at the longest interval which is about 15 minutes. On cold days we make sure to park it with the heat and all defrosters on and let it time out when we remote start it at 15 minutes. Sometimes we even run it through two cycles. The car has survived temperatures of -42 not wind chill in Northern Vermont. Now we live in Central Indiana but whenever the temperature goes below 32 we always use the remote start and have a nice warm running car to get into which I should add is also safe because it is fully de-iced. I enjoy your videos very much thank you. I am 71 years old and still enjoy working on our Subarus are more recent Subaru is a 2010 outback. Much lower quality than our 99 Subaru however with proper care and maintenance and of course remote start on cold weather we consider it our low mileage Subaru with only 256,000 mi on it :-)
I love my 2011 Outback Limited and it has 150,000 Its doing great I take very good care of my baby cypress (color) of Subaru Peace
Video or not true
Great story Philip, we have had Subarus for 20 years now, last three have been Outbacks, currantly driving a 08 2.5SE. My previous was a 2001 VDC H6, and just like yourself I noticed the quality issues, the plastic tailgate, the skittish feel in comparison when on rough tarmac sections, all sorts of little things that make the newer car feel cheaper in my eyes but only noticeable if you have owned an earlier model.
I have a set of 16 inch wheels from the VDC, may try those as prefer a softer ride, and the ability to drive up kerbs etc. the 17inch wheels look good, but not convinced yet.
If I could have found a low miler 2000-3 H6 I would have bought it in a heartbeat, I think as do others these were the best years build wise.
Can't complain about the gas milage for sure, but sure miss the smooth torque and overtaking power for sure of the H6, I suppose all that saved weight had to have a knock on effect, prefer the rear seat fold down system, hate the complicated sat nav unit, miss being unable to turn off VDC when in deep mud or snow.
Older cars get a rough time here in the UK as our Government love to spread rocksalt on the roads, so rust can be a killer, also careless owners and abuse can shorten cars lives if used hard for towing etc.
Mine is barely run in at 115,000 so hopefully apart from the usual Subaru niggles, will se me through, all the best and may all your gaskets be oiltight, and many more happy miles!
254,000 on my 2004 Subaru Outback and running till I get a newer Subie...
@@kennyrojas4014 Same here! Kenny 2 Kenny, this is my first subie and I'm already glad I made the choice. It's more practical than my Denali, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance. I couldn't change my oil without lifting the GMC up in the air. I'm learning as I go.
Your channel has been an amazing repository that’s helped me fix up and maintain my 04 XT Forester. In the past 3 weeks I’ve fixed so many issues with my car and have gotten it back to running like new, all DIY. From CV axels to power steering, idle relearn and a bunch more. Thank you for the great step by step guides.
Without knowing the mechanics of it, I always warm up my engine before driving down the road. To me , it is just common sense, and I'm glad you made this video that validates my actions. Thank you immensely!!
Conventional motor oil does not filter until about 150 degrees. It just flows through the bypass. Synthetic is better but still doesn't filter until about 100 degrees.
little do people know, an engine that never turns off and idles vs one that cycles constantly ; the engine running forever would last longer since its not subjected to thermal stress/expansion
How does anything you just said comply with what does videos about? This is about warming up an engine not long-term idling.
yes, but 'last longer' meaning what exactly? In other words, the whole pt of this vid is about the debate in engineering auto ICE engines, re warming up causing damage , which idle-type warm ups do cause a bit of damage in some ICE gasoline engines. Your topic is different, and really has no practical application except when discussing the value of a used car. If a mechanic or experienced person can get some indication that a car had mostly highway miles and was not a daily driver, then that car is indeed a much better condition car, overall.
(bcuz heat cycles are what age everything)
Thanks so much for the very timely video. Been driving over half a century and have always let my vehicles warm up including my 2020 Crosstrek Limited. Been using synthetic oils since 1978. Even used gasohol in the late 70s with no issues. (not to get another discussion started). MrSubaru1387, all the best to you and family in 2023. I'm from SW Penna where we had between -5 and -10 degrees this past Friday night.
Thanks for making this. There are so many hobbyist channels about cars particularly subarus where the owners of the channel make claims like you don't have to wrm up the engine before driving, or engine break ins are a sham. We need more educated techs like yourself spreading true information that eont lead to premature failure
That is just completely crazy and ridiculous. If that’s the case my dad‘s 85 c10 should’ve took a dirt nap a long time ago. In the winter time he would let it run 10 to 15 minutes before taking off. It has almost 400,000 miles on it, it has the 4.3 V6 in it and a four barrel carburetor.
@@petemitchell6788 I have been told that I have a gas tank for a brain and nos run’s in my veins and No all the truck I have rude in had working exhaust system because we had e check back then 😁😆
That’s an 1985 carb c10 so warming it 10 to 15 minutes will not damage it he is saying of newer vehicle which that c10 is 37 years old man!
Hi Mr Suburu, great channel, subbed 6 months and often check out your content, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You state sensible facts and logic, I totally agree with you. My wife drive a 2013 forester here in central Canada, the cold part lol, we always warm up the car, and will continue, NO matter what environmentals say...
I just found this video as we roll into winter in December 2023. I have always felt it made sense to let a gasoline engine warm up, especially in frigid weather. What great video with a great explanation.
I am 71 years old. I have maintained a lifelong habit of letting my engine warm up for at least five minutes. I never start to drive while the engine is at high idle. I regularly get 300,000 to 500,000 miles (or more) out of a car. I have never paid for an engine overhaul.
What Cars and Manufactures are your favorite? I need some wisdom 🙏
I am new to both an outback H6 and an engineer and You have correct logic and love your videos Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Keep up those videos!
Thank You Mr. Subaru !! Excellent Accurate explanation for the Modern Subaru Blue Temp Light . 100% in agreement let warm up until the Blue light turns off.
Great talk. I agree with you 100%. Thank you for taking the time to do this.
This has to be one of the most common-sense explanations I've heard. Yes, I warm up the car before driving you can feel the difference how the car responds from when its cold verses warmed up. You just reaffirmed what I've been doing when its very cold. I would think this would apply to all cars in cold climates.
I always let my vehicles warm up a little bit, especially in the winter living in MT. My Subaru started up even when we had -28°F temps not including wind chill! Love my 07 Outback!
Cars only feel ambient temperature, wind chill doesn't effect them.
So glad you saw this and had the same response as I did to it. I always warm my engines up before driving. Even after my engine is warm I still take it east to let the transmission and diff fluids warm up before I get on the highway and reach higher speeds. Oil ratings also dictate operating temperatures. Thicker oil is going to flow slower than thinner oil in the cold. So warming up the oil will help ensure that its doing its best to lubricate everything.
I live up in Canada and during the winter it's not uncommon to get -20C to -30C and when I warm up the car I set the parking brake and put the transmission in neutral (automatic) so the pump circulates allowing it to warm up. I will mostly do this around -15C and colder. I also let it run for 20 minutes once it get's colder than -18C. Also, the oldest car I own is a 2005 Honda CR-V I bought brand new and it now as 350,000KM on it and have never had any problems with the engine for letting it idle that long. I do all the normal servicing and still bring it to the dealer for trans flushes and diff service, oil changes I do myself when it warm out but I even bring it to the dealer to have them in the winter.
Great vid and info. I have a 2022 Mazda CX-9 and it also has the same blue temp light "feature" and the manual also states the same about letting the car warm up before driving. The dealership I purchased from stated that it's "okay" to drive while said light is on as long as you don't enable Sport Mode or accelerate hard until the light has turned off. Thanks again for the info 👍
Love your channel man. Just bought a 2019 Crosstrek and looking forward following your channel. Thanks for your work.
Love this!!! I'm in MA, and always warm up my vehicles.
When it's really cold I warm up my vehicles the fluids are thicker than normal so you end up putting extra stress on your fluid pumps especially if you just start it up and drive off. The extra stress may not amount to anything but the thermo expansion of pistons, heads, and cylinder blocks can cause issues if one expands faster than the others
I appreciate your input. Both of my cars sit still till at least SAI has completed its cycle and the idle drops. I then begin driving gently. Especially the flat 6. My beater is all aluminum as well. I wait till at least 180 F before I break 3000 rpm. In the flat 6. The beater is a pooch. So no need to hammer on either of them till some slow building heat has occurred. Thanx for the information. I’ll sit a little longer. The temp I speak of, is oil temperature.
I have been more intentional since my last oil change about letting my 14 crosstrek warmup even in the summer, but especially in the fall/winter for a few minutes until the lights off before driving and I think it has helped to keep my oil level consistent with out any noticeable consumption taking place.
U either have the oil issue or u don’t with that model. U obviously got a good one so did I. Sold my 14 Trek was so gutless and uncomfortable on highway trips. Definitely a City car. My 3.6 Outback is dreamy on long highway trips.
275,000 miles later, and 5 minutes winter warm-ups, nothing wrong with my engine yet!
Hey Icewatch, which Subaru model and year do you own?
I questioned my education in automotive technology when I read this article. Thank you for the video.
I've always been a supporter of warming up the engine, and I always cite the same expansion/contraction reference you made when explaining this to other people. We have temperatures that drop to below -40 up here in Canada, so for small engine cars I usually, after 2-3 mins of running, suggest taking off slowly and maintaining an RPM at or below 2000 until the gauge starts to read. Otherwise, the car will never actually warm up at those temperatures.
Excellent video! And I agree entirely with your logic.
This seems to be the most common sense way of doing it. And it is EXACTLY how I warm up my new car as well
Thank you for the wealth of information and common sense. I always warm up my 2000 Forester Sport. It just makes sense living in Canada. Love your channel.
Yeah, I saw that article too, glad your addressing the issue
The CVT on Subarus is meant to specifically run a certain weight oil and it's only at that weight after it warms up so I warm it up for my CVT more than the engine.
Older cars don't have heaters in the transmission so while letting it idle will warm the engine it won't warm up the tranmission. Most cars will be limited to second gear (or the cvt equivilent) when cold to help warm the transmission fluid faster.
Only way cvt warms is in drive and moving.
@@BitWalker Older cars have a heat exchanger in the radiator, that the transmission fluid flows into and back to the transmission.
@@robertkraft2358 My understanding is that the heat exchanger for the tran only exchanges to ambient air and therefore can only be used to cool the engine. In my expereince no amount of idle will warm a CVT transmission, I've left my car running for over an hour before when we had a power outage and I ran power to the house from an inverter. The engine temps were at operating but when I went to change parking spots the transmission was still slugish.
Living in Texas and i always let the engine warm before driving. I purchased a 2023 subaru crosstrek because it was the last year they offered a manual shift and went straight to cvt. Watching your videos got me interestied in subaru
I'm not a mechanic and don't know much about technical details regarding engines. My 2018 Crosstrek has always been inside my garage overnight but I've always wondered if I should be waiting for the blue cooling light to go out before driving. Typically I don't wait, but I just drive reasonably gently below highway speeds before the light goes out. So far I have had no problems. Thank you for clarifying what really happens, I feel better about my cold engine habits. Great explanation, thank you!
I think oil temp is more important than coolant temp for the longevity of your engine. But I will always let the STi warm up before taking off and keep it under 4k rpm's until operating temp. How long is dependent on how cold. At least wait until I see the temp needle move and hit its first line, usually within 3-5 mins. (I'm in CO btw)
I keep my rpm’s within 2k rpm’s before operating temps. I live in California so I guess it’s not necessary but it gives me peace of mind.
Same.
Yep. I let mines warm up until the dash temp gets to half way then don’t go over 4k rpm’s for another 2/3 minutes. Especially with boosted cars I’ve always been told to let the car warm up. It’s the oil temp & expansion of the engine components that are the important thing.
@@anthonyparra9553 3 k is doable
I doubt idling damages the engine. I normally just easy on it until it's warm during the week. -10°f it idles until warm.
Thank you for this informative video! I am new to Subaru brand, just bought a 2021 Impreza in May and since it's now winter (I'm in Pa.) see the cold symbol and yes I do warm it up before driving. Car feels like i'm driving a tank otherwise.
I think it's a good idea to warm up your engine before driving, though I'm guilty of taking off sooner than I should, but where I live, I really can't go over 25 for about a mile, so I drive about 20 mph in second gear and the engine isn't running much above idle. The blue light usually goes off after about a half mile. It doesn't get very cold here in northern Arizona anyway. Flagstaff can get very cold, but the elevation isn't so high where I live.
Love when you showed the blue temp light. My light is green & there is a red light when it gets too hot. Imagine that. In 1962 that was standard in Chevy trucks. As the engine warms up the green light fades out. The main reason for that is to give the temperature time to come up enough to open the thermostat. The open thermostat let's the warmed coolant to circulate through the radiator. It's real crucial with my 261ci six cylinder. Yes I am in the middle of doing the timing belt & water pump kit on my 1997 Subaru legacy Outback 2.5l. That's how I found your channel.👍
Thank you for the information, (the whole oil pump not working at idle thing seemed kind of silly) but I always thought that the cold engine light was for the CVT as a reminder not to accelerate to harshly until the CVT internals are up to 140 deg. Additionally, when it is cold, I usually wait until the engine is warmed up. Once I am driving the blue light is still on, the RPM will be higher than I usually see it at. After the blue light is extinguished the engine RPM will normally drop off top what I consider a normal RPM range, this usually takes about three to five minutes depending how cold it is.
My 07 Outback XT has the blue light and if it's on, it prevents you from putting the car into S# mode, so yes, it's definitely to prevent the engine from being revved too high.
I have a 2021 Subaru, my first automatic transmission in maybe 50 years. I ALWAYS warm the engine (all year round) till the little blue cold light goes out and the idle drops to 700 or 800. I refuse to drop it into gear while at high (cold) idle (1800 rpm in my car). Putting it into gear at 1800 rpm has to be an issue with the CVT in the long term. Ain't happening in my car. Needless to say I really make great use of the remote start, especially during the winter in NY.
Nice presentation.
I remember a welder that I worked with and at closing time he would not warm up his truck prior to closing time and he would just go out and rev it up a lot while sitting in it for a few minutes and then take off.
I approached him one day in the middle of winter and asked why does he rev up his engine so high when it is like -20 to -30 degrees C' and he claimed it does not harm it and has been doing it for years in a his fairly new truck + he was not using synthetic oil in 1990's.
Well to make the story short it took the following winter doing his same crazy warm up procedure " pedal to the metal" and he damaged his engine and was burning a lot of oil and ran terribly and was hunting around for another engine to replace his damaged one costing thousands of dollars for new block and labor costs.
Some people may have other motives of not informing people the best way to care for a vehicle to a young Greenhorn because they sell a lot more parts and other businesses are laughing to the bank over time.
I always let it idle for a minute or two, and then drive slowly until the engine is fully warm to get the fluids moving around. I think we need to consider the fluids in the differential and transmission too. I've been doing this for years and have 250,000 on a V6 Malibu and 170,000 on a Grand Marquis. Both run like new, don't burn oil, and have never let me down.
Great point about driving immediately with a fogged up windshield! Safety first, no matter what is recommended! I think this is all about fuel economy standards and manufacturers and governmental agencies making sure no fuel is wasted while the car is warming up. Of course you should let your car warm up for a few minutes. The engine oil and coolant, the trans fluid, the differential fluids are all at ambient temperature when you first start the vehicle. It’s just common sense to let those fluids warm up a bit before driving. And for me, even after I start driving, I take it easy until the operating temps are near normal. Good video, thanks.
The differential doesn't warm up unless the car is moving - ditto the tires and brakes, etc.
@@charleshuffman6982 This is true, thanks for clarifying. I guess the exception would be vehicles like the Subaru, and the Toyota RAV4 that have the front differential built into the transaxle, these might get some slight warming of the fluid from the transmission and possibly the engine during warmup.
Ed - Agree 100%.
@@charleshuffman6982 I have a long driveway so sometimes after I've clear the windows I will drive back and forth so I'm technically not idling. I don't think we have any regulations about idling in the driveway where I live but I could be wrong.
Makes sense to warm up. I’ve notice in my 2018 Crosstrek gets about 90 km until it goes down 1 bar of gas in the summer but in the winter it’s about 70 km. I lose about 20 km in the winter due to warming up because on this cold days or nights I’ve sat in my car waiting 5 to 6 min for the blue light to go out. But I think it’s important especially for the cvt to be warm.
When I was ordering my 24 impreza rs there was accessories and features I was really considering for the car. For starters the engine block heater actually works in cold climates and helps start the car easier
I'm glad you brought up this topic because when we had carburetor's and manual chokes my father always said it's best to get in and drive it. I believe he was referring to the rich mixture caused by the lack of a good choke system. Plus all of the carbon build up and plug fouling. I know full well from an engine mechanic and a machinist view point that it is absolutely imperative to warm all of the mechanical parts because of the tolerances between the bearings and the crankshaft, rings to cylinder walls etc.. My Toyota Tacoma has the 3rz four cylinder engine and it makes some pretty sad noises at temperatures below 40 degrees F. I let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes and it runs with absolutely no noise. I'm guessing it's piston slap probably in cylinder #4 which tends to run the hottest. At 176,000 miles it's bound to be loose. It doesn't leak, burns zero oil and the oil never turns black in between oil changes. I just baby it until it gets warmed up if i'm in a hurry.
It’s odd that you mention it has piston slap you think but at the same time you say it doesn’t burn oil. I feel like those are contradictory thoughts. As an a slapping piston, should scrape or scrub the oil off the cylinder wall based on the idea that the thermal expansion hasn’t actually happened to the piston itself. But yet if it was doing the Slap that should normally indicate oil getting past the oil ring. Now I could be wrong. What are your thoughts on that?
Turbo cars are required to be warmed up and are more fuel efficient after they reach operating temperature.
I have 2016 forester and live in Phoenix. I have never waited for the blue light to go out before driving. I’ve never done anything different on any vehicle I had before this one either. I just drive gently and easy for the first few miles. The rpm’s drop as soon as I shift into reverse or drive so I don’t get the difference between warming at high rpm idle or lower rpm gentle driving.
I've been driving for over 55 years and have owned many vehicles, so I can't remember which owners manual advised against driving off with a warmed up engine and a cold transmission. They wanted you to drive gently until the cold light turned off. It can get pretty cold here in Canada, and I've remained mindful of that advice. I'll let the engine idle 10-15 seconds before driving off in summer, and twice that when it's cold, but not much longer.
Good content! Thank you!
I am definite believer of letting your car warm up, no matter the make or model. Honestly, I feel the people who said warming an engine is rough on it, received some type of compensation from the government, and is an attempt to start scaring people into buying an EV .
hit the nail on the head. this is exactly why they are saying it
???
Wow, conspiracy nuts are everywhere nowadays. Why would Firestone try to scare you into getting an EV? Most of their business comes from ICE cars.
@@drk321 government compensation or threats of being shut down by government officials. Politicians don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
Once initial oil delivery is achieved to all parts just seconds after starting, and the engine settles in, put it in gear to drive lightly which achieves a better cylinder pressure so the rings seal nicely. This is the point! The smog pump, mapping are setup for this. Extreme cold takes longer.
Thanks for the info. Definitely warmup!
Thank you so much for your advice. I've been following you for a long time.
Yes I always let my engine warm up.
Hi from Canada. if i can see out the windows I'm ready to drive. That seems to work at any temp down to -40. of course at -40 the block heater is plugged in. with full synthetic i never used the block heater until about -20c
I have three vehicles with a combined million miles between them. I’ve always cold started and waiting until it comes off high idle before driving (30secs-1min). Never had an engine failure, even starting diesels in minus F temps. But I have no issue letting that engine run longer, but it’s only to get heat in the cabin, not so much for engine performance
Great information, yes I will always warm up my engine now !!!
Great video! I have always warmed up my fords and now looking into my first Subaru. I love the fact that they have the blue light on the dash. Plus I am not about scraping windows unless needed. My cars automatic remote start settings will defrost them during the warm up. Just ice not five inches of snow of course. Thank you again for a great video
One of my teachers in high school had a '59 Olds 98 and the school barber had a '60 98. Both cars, as I remember, had green _COLD ENGINE_ lights in the instrument cluster.
I've got a 22 Outback with 18,000 mi on it and live in Massachusetts and I'm not sure I've ever seen the blue light! In any case I do warm up the engine but I do it my way. I start the engine and basically drive immediately but very gently. I keep the rpms at 2000 or under for the first couple of miles. This means I will actually pull over to the side of the road if there are people behind me wanting to pass. I would never, never gun the engine immediately after starting on a cold day and am really glad I don't live right next to an interstate where I'd have to get up to speed immediately. I'm 70 years old and hike a lot but I don't hike quickly up steep hills at the beginning of my hike. I give my body a chance to warm up - my heart rate, lungs, joints, muscles, etc. I treat my car gently the same way!
Have a 17 Outback and don’t remember seeing that blue light they keep talking about.
@@ericripley9739 Blue thermometer icon on the dashboard
If newer cars with lots of plastic parts get those plastic parts get too hot too many times they'll fail eventually. You are totally correct about modern EFI engines, I was startled to hear that article you read, I must have been written by someone who knows little about internal combustion engines. Also driving away, gently, the engine will warm up faster then letting it idle for a long period of time. I have lived in Chicago, Colorado, Alaska and Michigan all my life and did controlled studies with each new car I've owned for the last 45 years. They all warmed up faster if you drove them, gently, than letting them idle for a long time.
A car will warm up faster if you drive it gently than idling. Gentle driving will take the engine up to, let say 2000rpm.
The engine warms up due to the amount of explosions in the combustion chambers and the friction of the components. These are both greatly increased if the engine is at 2000rpm.
The problem is, the oil in the engine is not warm enough to lubricate properly at 2000rpm under load.
@Harvey Smith second this. I installed an oil pressure gauge in my car, and the cold start reading is at over 100 psi. High oil pressure isn't always a good case when the oil isn't properly warmed up. Cus the oil isn't as free flow as it should be, all oil has an optimal operating temperature window. Too low or too high is bad for the engine. My best analogy is when the engine oil is too cold. It's like trying to run Mapple syrup through your metal bearings. Sometimes, those syrup don't have enough juice to get to the dedicated spot to lubricate the engine parts while underload.
@@VinRZ Spot on.
@@harveysmith100 People just forget that atleast here...there is nothing gentle about when you drive in the snowdrifts and clogged up winter roads when it has been snowing :D but anyway the article lacks any real info. you dont need to actually wait for 15 minutes to warm up the engine..but common sense says that 1 or 2 minutes of letting all things get going smoothly does nothing but good when you like clear the snow off the car in the meanwhile.
@@nekoroms I disagree, it is possible to drive gently in snow, infact it's best to drive gently in snow.
Happy Christmas from Jamaica. I live in tropical climate all year long and I do warm up my 2008 Impreza every morning until the light goes off before hitting the road.
Guess I need to subscribe since I just got my first Subaru! Been a lurker since trying to decide which vehicle to get. Great information.
I have an 2009 forester and it still has that blue light so earlier subarus did have the light. (I let it warm up until the blue light turns off). Honestly it is a win-win because you hop into a car where the engine is happy and the cabin is warm..
You idle at a red light, people idle waiting to pick up their partner at work, construction workers idle their cars on the site, 18 wheel tractor trailers idle for 6-8 hours in winter to get warmth, when they sleep in their cab
Oh My ? We live in Northern Nevada and it is cold --one day is is 11 or 12 in the morning and the next it is 25 to 28. We have a 2005 Froester with a automatic trans, we let it warm up in the mornings, we also have a 2018 Camaro with a manual trans, (if the weather is bad the Camaro stays home). I watch the trans temperature gauge (and engine oil and water temp also) My wife is looking at a much newer Subaru, Crosstrek.. In Carson City, (Dealer) Oh yes we are in our late 70's. Please keep up your good work (advice) !
I have a 2013 XV Crosstrek. I live in NE Washington. In the winter, I generally let it warm up for anywhere between 1-3 minutes, or maybe closer to 5 minutes if the temp is 10 degrees or less. The amount of time I let it warm up depends on the ambient temp outside.
I always let my Crosstrek warm up until it goes into closed loop (blue light off) for the reasons noted in the video, but also to avoid unnecessary wear/stress on the CVT by dropping it into gear when the cold idle is still high at 1,800 RPM.
Agreed 100%. Has to hurt dropping it into gear at 1800 rpm. I always wait till the idle drops to normal (700 or 800), which happens mere seconds after the blue light goes out.
It still has a torque converter, which is going to absorb any high idle "stress" from putting it into gear. Any extra wear you might be thinking about isn't enough to matter unless you plan on that transmission doing 1,000,000 miles. Probably not even then.
2001 F150 with 241k on it. Same timing chain and heads have never been remove. Been warming it up for over 20 years and no problem. Motor is still strong as ever. Change the oil regularly and that is it. Still strong and pulls my 5000 pound boat with ease
2003 Subaru 200K miles. Never warm the engine EVER. I take it easy till the car is warmed up.
Change the oil every around 5k the damn thing burns oil like it's no ones business.
My dad has a Silverado with 240k miles. Never has been warmed up in its life. The damn thing has the original transmission, and engine. I cannot believe that thing is still kicking. Idk how often he replaces the oil.
This is all location based. Follow your manual. If they stay to warm it warm it if they don't it doesn't matter.
Same here. 2002 wrx 243000 miles. take it slow until at operating temp, and change oil every 3-5k. @@seemlesslies
The screensaver on my dashcam shuts off after 30 seconds (in PA you can't have a driver-facing screen, so I have it set to turn itself off). So I always start my Rex, fiddle with cleaning the window and setting the climate control, doing some dusting, etc. then when the screen goes off I go. Off-boost as much as possible until 175F oil temp, 4000 RPM max until 200F oil temp.
In the winter I'll have it running for a few minutes sometimes just to give me time to brush snow off and clear the windows. I try not to let the thing run rich for very long though.
2003 Forester EJ 25. It gets very cold where I live in the winter. I have always warmed the engine pretty good before driving. Then go easy for a while to fully warm before applying pressure. 216,000 plus miles now, and zero head gasket issues etc. Still runs good. I did need to replace my fuel pump, as it got weak and that caused plugs to burn lean, and that fries them with no code thrown. Go long enough, and eventually you will get a misfire code when fuel delivery is the actual problem. Warm that puppy up!
I also saw this article. It was good for April 01st.
I have been seeing this come up a lot lately. It just never made sense to drive off with a cold engine. Then again I grew up driving cars that needed to be warmed up or they wouldn't even run right lol. I have an 01' Forester and where I live, with wind chill, the temp in the winter can easily be -20 F. I wouldn't dream of NOT warming it up. By far the best car I have ever had for winter driving. Great video.
Wind chill is a human creation, but yeah.
I always wait 5 mins before driving off during the winter.
@@Yohane350 I know wind chill is real. I ride motorcycles and go hunting lol. also with out wind chill it is 2 degrees F out so yeah its cold. (I mean this light hearted lol I know wind chill doesnt effect your car.)
@@collinmc90 I will say though, I don't know if this is a thing, but when the wind is strong enough and the intake (ie: the grille) is facing the wind, the car starts harder (cold knocking as well), revs higher and takes longer to warm up.
The sitch has to align just right, but it has happened too many times to just be a coincidence: colder wind definitely seems to affect my Outback.
@@ChristianGiaconiBonaguro You know this makes a lot of sense actually. I mean we have air cooled engines right? wind speed has to effect the temperature of a warm engine otherwise they would all over heat? hmm So I guess it would make sense that if the air coming in was really really cold it would mess with detonation in the cylinder. just my guess. I mean people install cold air intakes to improve performance but if an engine isn't tuned for that maybe it hurts performance? again just my thoughts.
Very well explained! I read the exact same article and came to the same conclusion as you and others did. The article made 0 sense to me as I rationally thought “The oil will be circulating from the oil pump regardless of wether the engine is idling or the vehicle is being driven. Thank you for clarifying this and putting it to rest. Sadly, there are going to be people out there who will take this at face value and follow it. Those people are going to be the ones risking potential engine failure at some point. I also drive a Subaru and do let it warm up for several minutes before driving away. I live in Canada and believe me, on COLD winter days, I not only have the block heater plugged in but also start and warm up the engine before driving away. I’ve found in my experience two things: one - if I don’t do this, my transmission is sluggish etc; two - that blue engine temp icon takes roughly 2 - 4 minutes to go off indicating that the engine is sufficiently warmed up. To drive away to prematurely risks damage to the CVT and I’d rather not have to pay that bill to get that repaired/replaced!
Thanks again!!!
just, no! repeat after me: the engineer designers literally designed the car engine and other parts to warm up so quickly after u start engine that it's safest and easiest on the engine to start driving at your earliest convenience, ie, within that first minute or two. They designed the system to NOT be harmed (in fact opposite) from driving immediately after starting. This is a FACT and all the mfr's have data on it and it's in the design specs. I like facts. And i like buying used cars from ppl who follow the instructions of the mfr!
I love the way you think! Keep up the common sense instructions. All of your videos are great.
My rule of thumb, if I absolutely cannot let it warm up to the point where the blue light goes out, I'll give it a minute and a half or two minutes. If it's less than 10f out, more like two or three minutes. Or to the point where I can successfully deice the windshield, back window, and the front side windows, and they consistently stay defogged.
But most of the time I wait for the light to go out. My pharmacy benefits plan thanks me later too (I have asthma and staying longer in cold temps causes me to have to use my inhaler more).
I think you're right. Article seems like it's pushing the "green" initiative compared to what they've said years ago, "your car doesn't need to warm up" and found it doesn't work. So now they're trying this approach, which if it doesn't work, you'll likely see anti-idling laws and exec orders in the future.
I agree. When I drive Subaru I dont wait forever for that blue light. I will put it in D and let the vehicle roll on its own with no gas pedal since my neighborhood has a lot of signs to slow down anyway.
@@jeretso One of my mechanic friends say as long as you give it at least a minute and keep it under 3-4k rpm driving it afterwards, until it reaches operating temperature, it should not do extra damage. It's just for best defogger effectiveness and safety it's best to warm it up all the way which is why manufacturers typically recommend it.
The only thing I’ll say in my experience as a mechanic is that direct injection does strip some oil from the cylinder walls compared to port injection. But my truck has both so when it’s cold it only uses port injection. All you really need depending on temperature is a minute or 2 before driving. Everyone has different conditions, cars and needs. So your experience may differ
I recently have warning lights flashing due to my gas cap properly secured. The skid, brake, cruise control and tire lights are lite. Is there a way to fix that?
Thank you Mr. Subaru for confirming my long held belief. I currently have a 2017 legacy, and just bought a 2018 Crosstrek. The legacy has a gauge, the Crosstrek does not. It has the blue light. I always let a cold engine warm up before going anywhere.
It probably boils down to emissions. It pollutes more when cold. However I need heat. The heat does not work unless the engine is warm. So it will set there and run until the heat is ready to go.
Here in South Dakota a block heater is a must. I'm glad my Legacy has remote start and make sure it's warmed up before taking off. The only real downside is fuel consumption.
What about transmissions? The only way to get them to warm up is to start driving. I've noticed when the temperature is near freezing the automatic shifts can be sluggish and I can actually hear the gears. When I had a WRX I remember shifting gears felt like mush when it was near zero degrees outside.
shifting in the cold just suck till things warm up
Subarus have a heat exchanger (at least for CVT models). The engine coolant will share its heat with the transmission fluid. Also cools the transmission that way too. Even conventional automatics would have a separate aux cooler for them next to the radiator, and could share some heat from that.
Edit: Manual transmissions, especially older ones, usually didn't have such a heat exchanger or cooler so you're correct for those. Only way to warm it up is to start driving. Probably best to take it easy on them until they do though.
@Tech Guy Dilan
You were not 100% correct about the manual. When the car is neutral, the gearbox is actually connected to the engine. It will spin with the engine in order to create heat. But usually, the only things not being warmed up are differentials post gearbox.
@@VinRZ only a tiny bit. The output shaft gears are what really gets the fluid moving and warmed up in a manual.
I live in Reno nv presently. The lows have been around 7 degrees even when the temps are at 32 degrees I use the remote start to warm up the engine compartment because the engine will be way much colder. When I get in my OBW I look at the temperature panel and the coolant temperature gauge. When the engine temperature is at 118 degrees then I drive off slowly and do a break check on the ice. Then I take off. I am an heavy equipment operator so I am familiar with the cold starts.
One additional thing to consider is that warming up your engine does not warm up the transmission or the differential etc. So either way drive the car gently for a while and remember that lubricants take longer to warm up than coolant. In really cold weather it may take 30 to 60 minutes for lubricants to temperature stabilize so easy does it. My rule of thumb is to start the car before cleaning off the snow and ice and wait until idle speed gets below 1000 RPM before gently driving off.
Lol. I saw the same thing on FB. It's funny how FB is a mechanical guide for the ignorant. I always warm all my cars up. And thanks to you on a previous video i make sure my wifes subby is warmed so we can get many thousands of miles out of it. For anybody reading my comment i have an 18 forester and there is an engine temp gauge in the triple meter. The owners manual will tell you how to get to it so its visible as you drive
I have always felt that the mixed metals in the modern engines having different coefficients of expansion was a legitimate reason for the warm up.
That's what S&S says about motorcycle engines. The pistons, cylinders and heads all expand at different rates. They need time to snug up against each other.
The Toyota 3L six-cylinder perfect example. pretty much any cast block with aluminum heads
I'm so glad I listen to myself and not the so-called "experts" in a news article online. Great video.
When it's super cold and I start my 4.7L Dodge truck, there is a horrible, fingernails-on-a-chalkboard screeching noise as the overhead cams run dry until the oil reaches them, and I'm using a full synthetic oil. I'm going to let it warm up awhile, no matter what the experts say.
Thanks! That's good info. We just bought a Subaru Forester and it's cold in Utah right now. I'm subscribed, plan plan on joining and will peruse through the owners manual which is honestly just confusing in some parts like where it tried to explain X Mode. I had to look that up on CZcams for it to make sense.
As a trucker 😂Love the way many vehicles warm their engines on the Freeway early morning!
The argument for not warming up that I have always heard is that the fastest way to warm up your engine is to drive slowly. I’m not picking a side here but I have always noted that it takes a very long time for an engine to warm up by idling in the driveway, it does happen quicker when you drive right away.
I use remote start and know damn well it's for me and not the car, unless the temp is unusually cold, like getting below 0F cold.
Been going back and forth with a friend of mine about this. I drive a 98 Subaru Forester and I can tell a distinct difference in the way my car drives when I don’t warm to when I do. I just feels like the parts aren’t moving as smoothly and actually feels like I have less horsepower when driving on a cold engine. Firm believer in warming up your car to less than 1,000 rpm before taking off.
Depending on the weather conditions - WITH MY CAR PARKED OUTSIDE - I have always warmed up the engines in varying amounts of time. I will always start the engine before I clean off the car so it can help me melt the ice on the windshield. Also, my automatic transmissions are more sensitive to colder temperatures than my manual transmissions, so this is an issue. I like the idle speed to start dropping before I put my auto trans car into gear, but I usually only warm up my cars a couple of minutes if my windshield is clear.
As far as engine damage is concerned, I've never suffered any of this in any of my cars. When the heads are off, I always take pictures of my like new appearing engines so I can prove to others why regular oil changes WITH premium brand full synthetic oil is necessary. My exhaust pipe tips are gray because of no oil consumption.
Bottom line:
Fossil fuel powered engines only require a minimal amount of warm up, BUT should never be driven hard until the temperature gauge says it is OK. Automatic transmissions are more susceptible to extra "wear and tear" if not warmed at least a little bit.
Scheduled maintenance with proper fluids and parts is critical.
Top Tier fuels are critical for "runability" in all situations, especially with the new DGI engines and super high powered fuel injectors.
Common Sense applies here.
I refuse to comment on EV's. They have no place in my life unless they are golf carts.
My father and grandfather were engineers for Opel for their entire careers.
They would start their vehicles and let them warm up for approximately a minute in cold weather and then drive them gently until they warmed up.
They warm up much more quickly under load then idling.
My Dad's '70 Kadett 1100 wouldn't turn the manual transmission over in neutral at idle until it warmed up a bit.
Remember those were old cars of 1960 not new cars
Why would subaru remove the temperature gauge 🤦🏽♂️. Just a light
I think it makes sense to see the actual temperature
Oh I agree. We need a temp gauge. But, the light is better than nothing.
All my subarus are 05 and 06 and are solid vihecles. I worked on a 2010 and noticed the missing gauge 🤦🏽♂️. Was not happy with subaru and the horrible CVT
To be fair to Subaru, those temp lights do work. A red one comes on when you start overheating.
2015 outback still has the gauge
Another point is that some cars have oil squirters to keep the piston skirts lubricated. Another thing is that it's good to let the battery charge a little before putting more of a load on it. That's one of the reasons why Alternators die when in extreme cold or extreme heat. I called out this article when I heard it too.
What is the impact of the cold under 32 degrees or colder on the transmission fluid? I grew up in Nebraska and was even sensitive to not parking your car towards the wind... But maybe that's the virgo in me. I've always subscribed to warming up. Like you, that's just my opinion.