Are Cold Starts Bad? Should you Idle or Just Drive to Warm Up?
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- čas přidán 11. 10. 2022
- Should you let your car idle to warm up? Or should you just get in and drive? Explaining what is best and if cold starting your engine is bad for it. Including description of the cold temp light in subarus.
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I used to do engine and transmission rebuilds in my younger days. When the engine is cold the piston rings, bushings, and bearings are tight. Does not matter if it is a new type of engine or an older type engine. The thermal co-efficiency of the various metal parts are not exactly the matched and are nearly impossible to be exactly matched, and the cooler oil does not lubricate as well as when it is hot. The worse thing you can do is race an engine when it is cold. This makes for excessive wear, and can promote early failure.
When starting in the cold let the engine idle for about 1 minute max. On an extremely cold day you can idle it a bit longer. Remember, when starting on a cold day the transmission is also cold. Start driving but very gently. Don't drive a cold engine hard until it warms up. It will warm up faster when driven. Once the engine and transmission are at normal temperature you can drive the car normally, or if you want to drive it a bit harder.
With any engine and transmission, if you drive it easy all the time everything will last longer. Make sure you do your oil changes and maintenance on schedule. Driving hard will make for quicker ware of parts, burn more gasoline, and will shorten the lifespan of the tires. The need for making stops from higher speed and aggressive driving will also wear down the breaks much faster. Hard drivers make the service centers more rich!
Agree 100% Just drive slowly until the car is warmed up. It ain't rocket science.
Also have more fun😂😂
My dad was a mechanic and yes, EVERYTHING you said is what I was taught, and makes more sense. It's not just engine to think about, transmission is essential as well. Love your comment ❤️
Jerryfacts9749 explanation is the right one... much more accurate than the video. I would just add three more points.
1) A feature was first added to the Corvette many years ago to cut the available horsepower until the engine reached operating temperatures.
2) Rotary engines require longer warm-up periods. The operating manual says 5 minutes.
3) YOU WILL NOT KNOW immediately if YOU CAUSED ENGINE DAMAGE by driving hard on a cold engine. The symptoms develop slow just like habits develop human ailments like heart decease.
I guess one more thing.... This is exactly why I only buy new vehicles. I don't trust that the person before treated the engine and transmission in a manner that promotes longevity. I'm not into buying other peoples problems.
Well Stated Sir 😎👍👍👍
I never sit and purposefully wait for the engine to warm up, however I don't just drive off the second the engine is running. Normally, as soon as I get in, the first thing I do is start the car. After that I go on my phone, connect to bluetooth, pick a song on spotify, chuck my vape in the cup holder, take off my coat, just basically do a bunch of boring "getting ready to drive" stuff. Once I'm done with all of that and the seatbelt is fastened, the car had been idling for at least a couple of minutes, which imo is enough to start driving. I still don't rev it high, since I live in the city there aren't many opportunities to red line it anyway. I drive normally, changing gears at 3000 RPM max. By the time I get to the motorway/highway the engine should be warm enough to floor it.
Yh thats how i wait exactly the same 😂😂
Yh thats how i wait exactly the same 😂😂
Anyone know why my tru😢 doesn't have the roar from the exhaust when firing it up on cold start..it used to sound so good ..
L vape lol stop acting cool
@@mediumTierGodL comment. Stop judging people and live your own life.
I live in the frozen tundra known as Minnesota. In the winter, i let my vehicle idle for a good 5-10 minues before I take off. During that time, i scrape the windshield and dust off any snow. By that time, I'm ready to go. I still take it slow until I get to the main road. By that time, I'm getting heat.
Just use an oil a little lighter if your location get digits oe less. (ALWAYS I MEAN ALWAYS USE FULL SYNTHETIC OIL I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH.
For instance if your recommended oil is 5w30 because of the extreme cold you might want to run 0w30 0r 0w40 and also keep your coolant mixture about 70% coolant 30% water not that 50/50 stuff and your engine will run100x better and warm up super quick trust and believe I've been working on cars for about 22 years and not car has ever given me an issue. Now in spring/summer when you change your oil you can go back to the higher recommended number say 5w30 just make sure you always use synthetic full time because depending if you just commute most of the time not too much road trips most high end synthetic oils are good for about 10,000 miles. Dont actually try to wait 10,000 cause it says that. I put castrol thats good to 20,000 i just change it right when spring hits even if I only have 7,500 just keep it to 6 month intervals and only use factory oil filters they are the best for your specific vehicle and cheap. ALSO the heat off if you're and start and go person because your thermostat wont open til you car is fully warm so coolant wont flow right and coolant is your source for the warmth of your heater.
If you live in a place where winter hits single digits or less you should put a lower weight oil. For instance if your recommended oil is 5w30 because of the extreme cold you might want to run 0w30 0r 0w40 and also keep your coolant mixture about 70% coolant 30% water not that 50/50 stuff and your engine will run100x better and warm up super quick trust and believe I've been working on cars for about 22 years and not car has ever given me an issue. Now in spring/summer when you change your oil you can go back to the higher recommended number say 5w30 just make sure you always use synthetic full time because depending if you just commute most of the time not too much road trips most high end synthetic oils are good for about 10,000 miles. Dont actually try to wait 10,000 cause it says that. I put castrol thats good to 20,000 i just change it right when spring hits even if I only have 7,500 just keep it to 6 month intervals and only use factory oil filters they are the best for your specific vehicle and cheap. ALSO the heat off if you're and start and go person because your thermostat wont open til you car is fully warm so coolant wont flow right and coolant is your source for the warmth of your heater.
Right next door to you in Wisconsin we grew up letting our car's warm up
Modern cars are so fuel efficient that they will not burn enough fuel at idle to sufficiently warm the engine in any reasonable amount of time. Best to allow them to warm up for a minute or two and then drive off slowly and keep your revs below about 2500 rpm.
Not my mustang
Not just modern cars any vehicle with an internal combustion engine. I'm 76 and was taught that back when I was learning to drive at 17.
not even close to true... any modern car with a functioning thermostat (be it electronic or standard) will get heat into the engine. Its always better to allow oil to circulate, head to warm up, block and internals to warm up, and start expanding, before driving off, more even expansion, less problems
Negative, the thermostat should keep the coolant at a minimum allowing the engine to warm up. If you have a defective thermostat valve it will take the engine longer to warm up. The efficiency is not what keeps it from warming up. Also cold car will rev higher at start until a pre set time or temp or sensor reading is achieved.
Modern cars actually run really rich and in open loop mode when it's cold. When it's warm enough then it runs closed loop and uses the sensors to get the best air/fuel ratio. Above freezing it doesn't take that long to run closed loop mode.
Typically, a cold start will start with a slightly higher rpm. Once it’s warm enough, it will lower the rpm’s to the normal idle. It takes a couple minutes depending upon temperature.
The best & most right comment
Best comment I’ve seen so far. I always wait until my rpms settle down to normal idle then gently drive until it hits operating temp.
I was about to comment this.
there's definitely a happy medium. On exceptionally cold mornings I start it up and wait until I start feeling some heat in my heated seat before I get moving, which is usually less than a minute or two. The key is I NEVER rev the car above 2500 or so until the engine is fully up to temperature. Depending on your commute and if you need to get on the highway or not you may want to wait a little longer. My house is a pretty good distance from the highway, about 10 minutes drive to the onramp so no issues there but from work its literally about 30 seconds to the onramp so often I'll wait until the temperature gauge starts to move until I take off. Switching to full synthetic oil is a good idea too since it has better cold flow than regular oil.
I think it’s ok either way. Oil changes are more important. Change early and often. Change your coolant early.
Hey man you made a great point about the engine idling with cooler oil and that possibly causing damage over the long run. But, you also don't want to RAPIDLY unleash the volley of combustion (immediately gunning it to the freeway without giving it a minute or two). Not letting your car idle for a minute or two before putting the engine and transmission under strain (transitioning from cold to hot rapidly) puts extra wear the engine metals and materials causing them to expand and contract faster than a gradual temperature increase. I think the answer is in the middle. Give it a minute or two to warm then start driving, not taking off immediately or letting it warm up too slowly and circulating that cold oil.
i just do what the designers in engineering call for as ideal. To take off as soon as possible with slow easy driving until the temp's are higher. This is one of those areas where overthinking is BAD for your engine, i.e we easily can end up thinking we're babying the engine by idling a bit longer, and actually we are causing vastly more wear to the bearings, journals, pistons, etc. U want warm up to happen as rapidly as possible. Idling takes vastly too long, esp the colder the ambient temps are.
I’ve been driving cars for 20 years and let them idle for 10 min went past 200k
after yous tart it, there si no problem if runs cold for sometime..
@@18_rabbit you pe+ple are paranoid engine runs cold with no problem,, oil is preared to work in different temps ists calle multigrade goes from 5 to 40 viscosity for example..
problem is hard drive cold or start too many times..
The only thing I will say is for engines... Sure, but what about questioning your transmission? And the more sensitive parts that goes with your transmission? Arguably, it will not be warm anytime quicker than your engine (takes longer by default) and transmissions are equally as important as engines but debatably less durable. I would even say this doubles for manual transmissions where the engine coolant line is the transmission cooler/heater. So me personally when considering the cold and mechanics . You have to consider all the parts, not just the engine.
The happy place is somewhere in the middle. My argument against just starting up and immediately taking off, is that although you may be minimizing the amount of time that the car's oil is cold, you are adding more wear and tear actually driving it at say 2k-3k rpms vs letting it idle sitting at roughly 800-1200rpms for example. The other issue with cold running is that metals need time to expand and adjust to temperature differences, and sudden high rpm driving(assuming you do this) can put extra stress on all the components and lead to premature failure... My 2 cents.
The guy literally said he redlines it a minute in he’s completely stupid. “Oh it didn’t break down” yeah but if you treat your car like shit it will break down at 70k versus 300,000 miles. Then he’ll be confused and say it was because he just got unlucky. Loser stuff.
Cold Idling causes more wear and high rpm on a cold engine would cause more wear so just drive at low load and low rpm.
I’m a mechanic engineer and a mechanic as a hobby. If the thermostat is working right and depending on the starting temperature I will idol until the auto high ideal drops down to normal plus a minute. Usually for my six at 30 deg that’s about 3 minute. For my 4 cylinder that’s about 2 minutes. Then I stick to easy driving the next 2 or 3 minutes or until the temperature is within rage. Both of my cars are 22+ years old and running fine.
Most cars have a warm up process that lasts about 30-45 seconds in normal weather, up to 3 minutes in cold weather. You'll notice your rpm will be about 500-800 higher when you first start the car and will drop down after that initial 30-45 seconds.
well here's something they aren't telling you. every engine has an oil pump that circulates the oil when the thing is running, different viscosity oils perform with specified properties at different temps, automatic transmissions also have a oil pump that circulates the fluid when the engine is running, the engine drives the pump for the transmission fluid circulation throughout the hydraulic circuit, coolant also is being circulated when the engine is running via the water pump, to the radiator and heater core, engine temperature is controlled by the thermostat and radiator cooling fan. as long as all the fluids are within specification's and the component hardware is functioning as intended including wise ownership of the vehicle, monitoring levels and component conditions, you can let your car pre-warm for a 10 minutes plus pre-drive conditions without harming anything in the driveline in the cold weather, I myself have idled as long as 15/20 minutes. all this is happening at an idle or 1500rpm and higher, it has nothing to do with a carburetor, in fact I personally recommend it, get some defrosting done while you brush the snow off the thing and refill that travel coffee mug, get the sound tuned in and verify phone connectivity before hitting the road, safety starts with truth of the facts, and now you know.
this guy
I let mine idle for at least 10 min and my cars went into the 200k mile range. Driving off too soon it starts making weird noises and doesn’t drive as it shoud for me at least
@@Dan-uq4mfyou made a point. Caring and having genuine interest in your car is what leads to being able to hear and even feel when your car engine and components are at great operating temp, after having rode long time and being familiar with it. I personally also feel when the car wants or doesn't want to run, given outside temp or other factors. Also there is more behind this, so idling and caring is a way for car enthusiast to show other and themselves that enthusiasm, and car indifferent people don't want to be considered as less knowing their vehicle just for not caring so much.
Exactly what I do. I start my car as soon as I can tap the brake and my push start button. Then I wait at least 30 seconds for the oil pump to pump the oil as per recommendation from my manufacture's owner's manual. If it's cold enough for the engine to have a fast idle, I also wait for that to drop, and that can take up to 5-10 minutes depending on how high and how cold it is. As I'm doing this I'm getting my phone connected walking around my car making sure my tires aren't flat and just getting myself prepared for the drive while my car is essentially preparing itself as well.
the main issue is that the oil is still too cold to be at the proper thickness and wont flow as well. this wont ruin your engine anytime soon, but it will wear out bearings in the long run
Modern cars run on very light oil that flows at any temp
@@patriotsouthern8123 nothing to do with oil being at proper temp and thickness when warmed
@@patriotsouthern8123 hahahahahah
@@patriotsouthern8123inform yourself or find out.
You get more filter bypass on cold oil with higher rpm’s than at idle until the oil warms up.
Another factor to warm up or not before driving is if your at the bottom of a steep hill and the only way to go is straight up - might be a good idea in that situation to warm the engine up a bit in the driveway, sit in the cold car for 5 minutes or so and rev up to 2000 after a minute or two and then tackle the steep hill.
Going immediately directly down hill is just as bad. The engine is going high RPM trying to engine break.
@Barrie562, have this exact situation! I wait for around 5 mins before tackling a steep hill. question, what could be the impact if I don't warm up the engine for this situation? thanks
@@earvinpiamonte In climbing any hill esp a steep one the engine of course will rev up faster than on a level road so it's going to need more oil flowing faster which it will do when heated after any kind of warm up, so the impact would be greater engine wear
@@Barrie562 ,right right. previously, I was having issues with ATF leaking on the breather hose, could this be caused by the engine/ transmission not warm enough then climbing uphill? we got moderately steep driveway btw then uphill for around a min and a half @ Low gear before a level road
No it's not a good idea, as the air going to the cylinders isn't warm enough, and there is probably a possibility that the engine can stall.
If you lease your car then do whatever.
If you expect to keep your car for a long time then do your car a favor and warm it up.
I used to warm up until the blue light turns off, but it takes sooo long. I also have just atarted and driven off. I do notice the engine drives/feels differently. My solution is to warm up for a few minutes depending how cold it is. At least 5 min. Then i dont drive like a maniac until the light goes off.
I don’t care how late I am I’m not moving till the rpms drop.
That has nothing to do with it
It isn't just about cold oil. Fuel itself is a
factor. "Experts" say since cold starts run rich until warm and fuel is a solvent, you are essentially "washing" away less available oil with more fuel for a longer periods of time.
However..I am still firmly in the warm it up club. 'Friction' is the mechanism that heats the engine up. Friction is also the very thing that wears an engine out.
My logic still tells me that keeping an engines load as low as possible, until a normal operating temp is achieved, is producing less unwanted friction than forcing an engine to warm up by driving off easily. Idling still uses less fuel and less load than gentle driving for the goal of achieving a warm engine.
I've been driving and personally maintaining my 2000 Lexus LS400 for 19 years currently at 386,000 miles and I've always let it warm up to some degree before driving away.
i got a 2004 ls430 and i usually wait for the rpm to drop closer to 1k since it has a high idle during the first few minutes.
@@user-pg84i098 Nice! 04-06 LS430
Best car on the planet ever made.
@@joshriver75 my friend has a 93 ls400 with 70k miles, love the look of the ls400s, they all remind me of old mercedes cars.
If you have oil to wash away in your cylinders then you need a rebuild. C'mon dude.
@@bobbylee6859 Doesn't seem like you fully understand
It doesn't matter what you do,,you have to start your car,,and i agree on waiting and let your vehicle warm up ,,let it get to temperature and let your engine lubricate. Driving away after turning the vehicle on and driving will cause engine wear,,sooo let your car warm up even if brand spanking new !!!!
Well as a mechanic who rebuilds engines for a living, I can tell you with 100% certainty that jumping in your car when it is cold, as in below 30, and starting it and just driving will do quite a lot of damage in the 5 to 10 miles it takes to warm the oil,water,and transmission fluid to operating temperature ,in both your engine,and especially the transmission's in the newer model cars and trucks..cams, Pistons, especially piston rings, require lots of oil quickly as soon as you vehicle starts, thick oil is not good for those aluminum rings at all..there is a reason that the manufacturers manual states OPERATING TEMPTURE.... Because the new transmission's in everything from 2000 on that do not have dipsticks, have very thin glass tubes inside...and guess what happens when glass doesn't warm up, and then suddenly does???? Yup it busts very quickly....so yes 100% warm your car up slowly in idle, unless of course you want to come see me....or someone like me...
I appreciate your educational video. However, you do need a good five minute idle to defrost the windows a bit before driving 😊
Spring, summer and fall, I never warm up, but winter here is brutally cold. It’s not the warming up I think about , but I can see out my windshield, side windows or back window. So if I can’t see out of those windows I warm up and if I can see out of those windows, I waited about 30 seconds and leave. But that’s very rare. I would love just to hop in my car and go but when you got an inch of ice on your windshield and can’t see zip, that does not work.
Reaching operating temperature is more about proper expansion of all the different metals reaching their full dimensions.
Try the following. Start your car on a rainy day, as soon as you start the car, start driving and red lining your motor while doing skids in the wet. Your engine will need replacing within a year or 2.
It depends on the age of the vehicle. My Nissan Pathfinder with 305,000 miles needs to warm up before I take off driving. The car runs rough when it’s cold 🥶
I can’t get reverse to work in my old truck unless I warm up the engine first, I can go forward but not back. Lol
@@jeffgriffith7003
If it is an automatic, not going in to reverse till hot it can be an issue with the sleeve bushing that engages the planetary gear for direction switch. That is if it is the type of design I am thinking about. This would be expensive to service because it means taking apart the transmission. Once done there may be other warn parts that must be replaced, gaskets, and a fair number of parts. Then there is the time involved. Better to leave the transmission alone. As for myself, if the vehicle is in excellent condition I would look for a deal another transmission. I don't trust used transmissions.
Metal is weak when it's cold. So if it's 18°, and you start your car up and drive right away, your piston rings won't last long. At idle, your exhaust and combustion isn't as hot as when you're driving. So warm up at idle is better. You will warp and weaken the black and heads if it goes from freezing to extremely hot. Another thing to look at it load. When you put your car in gear it now has load on the engine, this will make more heat than with no load. So, heavier your vehicle, the more load on the engine wile cold. Cars maybe ok to drive cold because of less weight being pulled or pushed. When I use my truck, the exhaust temp is way higher taking off pulling a trailer then not pulling one at normal acceleration. It is definitely not good for your motor to be at -20° then start up and take off where I can see 1,000°+ exhaust temp. Way too much shock on the metal.
my exact thought, well said
I hear what you are saying, however as a subaru owner as well, i have to disagree with you on almost everything. A subaru mechanic on youtube said when it comes to warming up subarus it is best to wait til the blue light turns off before putting car in drive. It is a subaru thing.
Now on my subaru i do not have that stupid blue light, i listen and watch the temperature gauge. When it gets to 145 degrees F, then I put car in gear. At 145 my subaru switches from the cold enrichment table to the warm, the oil pressures drops from 100 psi to something less, and my oil temperature is over 100 degrees F.
My car builds up heat enough at idle, because the themostat is doing its job, by not opening until set temperature.
As far as gas is concerned you will burn just as much if not more gas while driving a cold engine, because you are in the cold enrichment table. So saving fuel is out of the question. Also keep in mind with a cold engine the o2 needs to heat up just to smell the exhaust gasses. So your air/fuel mixture will be off, also causing you burn more gas until engine is at temp.
At the end of the day, the choice is the drivers preference. Btw sounds lile you have some drive belts that need to be tightened if not replaced.
4:08 I don't agree with you....sorry ! Modern cars,differrent oil ,etc. And the car it will not warm up in 2-3 minutes drive to normal temperature in special when it is -20 C or more. Need at least a good 10 minutes drive to reach that "normal" temperature. As a mechanic..I suggest to run your car at least 5 minutes before you will drive . Good for you and very healthy for your car :)))
Thank you for this opinion about warming car idle, I didn't think that it will actually be worse as its running on cold engine for longer time. Now I think its better to start engine, wait for a few seconds, go slowly at first, let it get some heat and then get it to higher rpm, wait a bit more if you got turbo or smth 😊
I let it idle at least long enough to circulate the oil. Then as I drive off, I drive in such a way that keep the RPMs down for the next few minutes. After that, it's good to go.
Absolutely right. Letting your gas vehicle to idle for 10-15 minutes not only doesnt "warm up" the vehicle, but its a huge waste of gas. On a cold start, wait for the engine idle speed to get down to normal, about 30-60 seconds. Then youre good to go, just take it easy for a few minutes until it warms up. Im shocked seeing my neighbors and co-workers let their car idel for so long, such a huuuge waste of fuel.
Totally agree that it’s best to set off pretty much right after starting up. I’ll always drive the car gently till both coolant and most importantly the oil is up to normal operating temperature. When the car is parked outside on a cold snowy or frosty night, I’ll put a small 900 watt heater in the driver’s foot well. I’lll put it on a timer switch so as to save energy. This works really well. It’s so nice to come out to the car in the morning with a warm interior and clear windows!
If idling is bad for your car, what is the point for a remote start?
Your comfort
I just experienced it myself few weeks ago before watching this video. Glad that I came up with the same conclusion as yours.
In cold weather lets say 32F and any below, I idle run engine for about just a minute or less, to let the oil properly circulate and start drive normally, without reving the engine on high rpm. In summer time or warm weather I do still idle run but only for about 10-15 seconds, again for the sake to make sure oil starts circulating in the engine, better lubrication = longer engine life. Drive Safe ✌️
Cold oil does not cause damage. LACK of oil / oil pressure allows the metal surfaces to touch. THAT causes damage. This is a concern because when oil is cold it is thicker and does not flow as easily. Therefore, you want to minimize the stress you put on the engine until it is warmed up. Many modern engines will even electronically 'de-tune' themselves until the oil reaches operating temperature. And your owner's manual may even have instructions to keep the engine below a certain RPM range until it is warmed up. Mine recommends
Here in Calgary half the year it’s cold so we usually plug in once it reaches -15 and then let it run for 3-5 minutes
I think just gentle variation in engine speed for a few mins to build some temperature in the engine then drive it gently. Its faster at warming than idling for sure, but not as fast as driving off straight away. I think the problem with driving off straight away is that it will make the engine warm up to quick; the pistons will expand rapidly due to their smaller thermal mass but the cylinder block would take much more time to warm up and expand, therefore you could possibly increase cylinder bore wear due to the tight expanded pistons in a relatively cold cylinder block. However how measurable any of this really is is up for debate.
My Titan owner’s manual says it takes about 30 seconds for the oil to get safely distributed throughout a cold engine, but after that, go ahead and drive it and it will heat up much faster than idling. That also saves fuel. I’d say that’s pretty much in line with your comments.
I have a 2021 Toyota Tacoma and when it"s cold outside especially below freezing, the transmission shifts a little bit rough rough for the first few minutes so this is the reason I choose to warm up my vehicle for about 5 minutes. once it's up to normal operating temp it smooths right out. I think the transmission fluid viscosity gets thicker with colder temps and doesn't flow quite as smooth. Vehicle's are designed to run at their normal operating temperature especially over the next few days it's supposed to be well below zero degrees here in Maine. Not warming up your vehicle in extreme cold does more harm than good in my opinion. I used to drive a Subaru with a manual transmission and when it's really cold outside even that wouldn't shift as smooth until its warmed up a little. cold temps thicken fluid without a doubt. WARM IT UP
Your temps are rated at operating temp and 0° Celsius (32F) naturally if it’s below 0 your fluids are going to be too thick.
Exactly. I had a manual always warmed it up the 5 speed shifted a lot easier too
Exactly. I got 2019 Ram 1500 and my car also need few minutes to warm up the trans fluid
My Audi hand manual specifically says to idle and let the car warm up before taking off. It also says to let it idle for a bit before shutting off
If it is a turbo it makes sense (to me)
Is it a turbo?
I do both. I am idling because I am setting up the climate controls, android auto (wired) then headlights before releasing the parking brake and casually leaving my parking spot. When my car is covered in ice and snow. I turn on the car, climate controls and headlights to help melt the ice and snow. Then proceed to unbury my vehicle and scrape off the ice from my front windshield and side windows, front to back. Once my roof, windows, vents, lights and wheel wells are clear of ice and snow. I drive away as soon as I can. I do my best to do as little idling as possible.
We get -40 here. Point well taken though another point, or two. Be gentle with a cold engine/trans... Cars like yours are quite happy to be plugged in overnight. With Subies like yours and mine which have the CVT auto, well, they are susceptible to foreword and reverse clutch wear if you head off when it's very cold. Those trannies are not cheap and that is the major cause of failure. I leave mine plugged in, alternatively you could have it on a timer. I've also heard it recommended that you don't start off until the cold engine light is off. Been thinking of adding an adhesive block heater to the transmission oil pan for those forecasted extreme cold early morning starts. BTW i also shorten the transmission fluid change intervals from 100,000 to 80,000km.
Like many things in life, there are no absolute answers that apply to every situation.
If I plan on doing a short drive and I don’t expect the engine to get fully warmed up, I will pre-warm the engine before I drive just so that it fully reaches operating temperature by the time I shut it back down for several hours or overnight because engines that never reach full operating temperature have a tendency to produce considerable amounts of condensation in the crankcase.
Sometimes I even pre-warm my car so that I have a functional defroster, so that I can see out the windshield without fogging it up inside the cabin.
For cold starts in the summer, I let the engine idle for about 30 seconds to 1 minute before driving off.
All my cars also warm up pretty quickly at idle, I make sure my thermostats are in good shape since a proper coolant temperature is key to longer engine life, fuel efficiency, reduced carbon deposits, improved oil life, improved lubricity and low emissions.
Plus you also give your battery a better chance of recharging after the starter motor pulls hundreds of amps out of the battery, also especially critical in cold climates, this is something that nobody seems to address.
What I do except maybe when it's hot.
-start car
-connect phone charger
-prep music and/or maps
-drive about 700m at or below 20 MPH (speed limit)
-drive at least 600m at or below 35 MPH (spees limit)
-hope its warm enough after that short idle and light drive
Not sure it's right, but based on what I hear from variety of sources, this should be perfect as I'm gently driving.
Full time mechanic, I have my own opinions, but here are some facts: modern engines don’t need to be warmed up, but the catalytic converter does, driving as soon as you start the car will reduce the catalysts lifespan the more you do it. Normally idling for just a minute is fine and you’re good to go. Personally on my older cars I let them warm up before I drive them, but they are Hondas, so they are nearly up to temp in under 5mins. Any engine that uses different metals from head to block IE iron block aluminum head will benefit from allowing the engines to warm up because since the metals expand at different rates, putting less initial heat into them actually can extend the life of the head gaskets.
As a mechanical engineering student, I don't buy the "just drive its designed for it" thing. The fact is, an engines tolerances are set up to run when its warm. The piston rings will wear faster when the engine is cold.
Now, I wouldn't recommend you wait until it reaches operating temperature. Since that'll take 10-20m if its really cold out. But at least a few minutes will improve your engines longevity.
You should idle for 2 minutes in the summer and up to 10 in the winter and here why:
car NEEDS to enter closed loop to function properly and be at target afr, on cold start u run rly rich and driving off is wasting fuel and putting more fuel into your oil since there is a small amount of blowby when cold
-give oil time to circulate and warm up a little bit, oil always (no matter the type or weight) functions better warm and hot than cold
-your engine is going to face thermal expansion, letting it idle allows for a gradual and more even thermal expansion of the internals and block, and head.
-allowing coolant temps to rise will allow your thermostat to open up and start flowing coolant thru the block, necessary for heat in the cabin and actually helps motor warmup quicker
-your catalytic converters require eat to function properly, without them hot backpressure is altered which can cause valve issues down the road
Side note: dont turn your car on and immediately run the a/c, thats going to have to run the compressor which actually puts a decent amount of load on engines. From my personal testing when warm, the engine saw an increase of 20% load with the compressor on.
At the end of the day its your car and you can do what you want, but if you want it to last let it warm up until it idles down at the very least. This time will vary for each vehicle, and the coolant temps and ambient air temps. Cold starting a car and driving off allows more fuel into your oil (especially on turbo-gdi products). It also wears more on camshaft lobes, cylinder walls, camshaft phasers, timing chain tensioner and guides, main bearings, camshaft journal, connecting rod bearings, etc... Also if you have a turbocharged engine it needs to have time to warm up to function properly. Just let it sit so you dont have to pay a huge bill to replace an engine.
The dude is wrong. Check the troubles that Honda 1.5 turbo petrol engine has due to petrol slipping from cylinders to oil when cold, Mercedes petrol engine issues etc.
It may only be correct for modern diesels as they really don’t warm up from idling.
“Modern engines are able to do it” - modern engines are often due to be replaced at 100k km if you drive with cold starts all the time
If it takes longer to warm up at slow RPM, but that longer time is causing damage, how is revving your engine reducing wear.
If it’s super cold out, start and idle for a short time.
It doesn’t need to get up to temp. It just needs to let the oil thin out if it is super cold out.
That doesn’t take long.
If it is a comfortable day, just drive (but take it easy for a little while.
I’m not sure cars are “made to take this”. I don’t think most MFGs care if you damage your motor. Either way, the damage is likely to take years to manifest.
Another thing i take into consideration when i was asking myself that question was that IDLE will bring your engine to temperature, but your gearbox will still be cold, and that also can cause wear to the gearbox. Now i simply start it, let it run for 5/10 secondes and then i start driving, while maintaining a low RPM ( Usually around 2.5k )
This is true with the gear box since I can't even put in in gear.
Thank you for your opinion. As I see what you are saying. My Mazda 3 2018 petrol, initially, has high revs for about 10 - 15 seconds, then drops. The manufacturers have made it so. So they know what they are doing. Thank you. No more waiting / hanging around. ( an extra few minutes in bed - especially in winter hee hee ).
It is common sense to warm up a very cold car , especially in Chicago winter negative temperatures. You can injured your body waking up very cold and running instead of slowly warming up with stretching exercises. It works for me before running long distance marathons. I own a Honda Fit sport i purchased 16 years ago and i always warm up that car for several minutes during Chicago winter zero degrees temperatures without no problems.
I’ve just noticed with my 430d 3.0 diesel that there’s a significant loss of power if I drive straight away as if the engine is trying to protect itself, which is quite clever. I’m not saying leave your car for 15 mins but maybe up to 5 mins I can’t see what the harm is. It’s impossible to damage your engine this way as they’re meant to run.
I have added a remote start feature for the U.K’s cold months, the car stays locked and immobilised while the engine warms up but cuts off after 15 mins if you don’t get there in time.
A modern engine doesn't need to idle for several minutes to warm up. What you don't want to do is start a cold engine and start flooring it. If it is really cold, start your engine and let it idle for maybe 30 seconds max, then drive it normally (not really aggressively at least until it is actually at the proper temperature). If you don't want to sit still in your cold car, you can go right away, just drive it gently for the first few minutes until it warms up. Needless idling is harder on your car than simply driving it. An engine that isn't under load will take a long time to heat up. It won't take that long for it warm up when it is under load (driving it). Idling is also harder on your oil and your emissions system as the car runs rich during cold starts.
I’ve always warmed all my cars and I live in Florida. All the fluids are at the bottom of the car when you started it’s better to get all the fluid circulating in the car before you start putting pressure on the engine.
Basically, you don’t really need to warm it up but you need the fluids to start circulating.
Reading the coments made me think. Caring and having genuine interest in your car is what leads to being able to hear and even feel when your car engine and components are at great operating temp, after having rode long time and being familiar with it. I personally also feel when the car wants or doesn't want to run, given outside temp or other factors. Also there is more behind this, so idling and caring is a way for car enthusiast to show other and themselves that enthusiasm, and car indifferent people don't want to be considered as less knowing their vehicle just for not caring so much.
The best way is to drive away but don't immediately go to high revs. It will warm up faster if it's working harder than if you sit there and let it idle. This video is merely teaching what we in Britain used to be taught years ago.
I'm in the middle, where I disagree that cars are made to just jump in and go from a cold start, but also waiting until things are at normal temperatures is wasteful. One thing not mentioned is the oil you use - there will be far less damage in any circumstance if you use a higher grade of oil that has a proper viscosity even in colder temperatures. Even if you believe the car will warm up quickly if you just start moving, the first few seconds when there is little to no oil on the cylinder walls are where most wear happens.
Do what's best for your car, and that is going to vary depending on the car design and size of engine. Listen to how your car reacts to both instant starts and a few minutes idling. Does it balk at getting up a hill while still cold? Then maybe let it warm a minute or so, let the idle speed tell you if the engine is ready, or choose a less aggressive path to warm up while moving. I do find it odd that it's suggested the car takes 15 minutes to warm up. That sounds like a thermostat issue. Even at 20F my V6 drops its idle down a few hundred within the first few seconds of running, and the heater kicks in with warm air within a minute.
In short, don't put a load on the engine until it's mechanically ready. It won't take long, or it shouldn't if the systems are working like they should. Listen to your car's reaction and find that happy medium. And by all means use its idle period to warm the windows and hood to help you remove all snow and ice before you go driving and cause problems for others.
I've always been a proponent of driving away right after starting. The RPM is high is the car sits at idle cold. Driving at low speed, the RPM is lower. I drive between 5 MPH and 30 MPH until I reach a freeway. The RPM is quite low during that warmup period.
My friend believed in long idle warmups. I would hear the cold engine of his Kawasaki motorcycle surge while it sat there getting 0 miles per gallon.
When it’s warm outside I usually let my ‘22 Tacoma run for however long it takes me to put on my seatbelt and connect my Bluetooth. In the dead of winter in NY where it’s commonly below freezing, I’ll start it and let it sit for no more than like 2 minutes before I take off. Even driving, in the dead of winter my truck takes a while to fully warm up, definitely not 1-2 minutes. If I drive around town and it’s below freezing outside, it usually takes a good 5-7 minutes to fully warm up
OK, well I'm in the middle of this discussion. Letting the car sit there for ten minutes idling doesn't warm it up as quickly as driving it... But, probably good to let it idle for a few minutes in this cold weather before trying to drive it. Once you are driving, remember to drive as if there was an egg between your foot and the gas pedal, so it warms up gently. "Redlining the engine after running for just a minute" is asking for trouble, probably not today or tomorrow, but premature wear down the road for sure. It's not just the engine that has to warm up, but the transmission fluid, power steering fluid as well. There is so much to this discussion that only an engineer could explain, but the expansion rates of the different metals has to be considered.
So, if you can drive the car "gently" for several miles, then "warming it up" for just a few minutes in this cold weather is fine. But, if you are heavy footed, or need to get up to highway speeds quickly once driving, then it is probably better to let it warm up more idling in the driveway.
Like Kurt says, it will take the engine much longer to warm up just sitting idling in the driveway, then driving it gently. Needless to say, it might be best to let it warm up more in these super cold temps to help the defroster get going, so you can clear the windows properly before driving. Again, no one clear sided answer here, many variables to consider.
I believe that you should if you want to is simply start up your car and just give it a few minute to get the oil moving around don't
rev up your engine let it just Idle calmly 2 or 3 Minutes is really all you need and then drive off but do it smooth and easy until you car come up to temperature
Sometimes it's even good if you own a diesel car or petrol car to get it out onto the motorway and give it an Italian tuneup. Yeah, yeah, that means get the car up to at least 60 or 70 miles an hour, which is good for your engine.and Exhaust and your DPF filters to burn off those carbons. And if you're gone short journeys, then take a longer route, get your car up to temperature. This helps to keep your engine fit and healthy. With regular oil changes every six to seven months months don't go a very long period of time without changing the oill and filters it's better to keep the car fit and carbon free I would recommend No, and then JLM into your petrol or diesel tank to help look up on the CZcams channel JLM DIESEL INJECTOR CLEANER AND JLM DPF FILTERS CLEANER very good quality Product
I always wondered about driving the car cold, but then began considering the oil temp and how much is being bypassed around the oil filter. How much higher is the cold oil pressure than hot? I measured a long time ago in my Dodge Neon when replacing an oil pressure switch.
I worry more about the transmission fluid being warm then the motor oil. sometimes the transmission jerks when I put the car into drive from being in park mode. normally that does not happen when the car is slightly warmed up. Hope this helps everyone!
Same thing happens to me- my transmission will “clunk” if I shift from park within two minutes of ignition. If I give it five minutes it shifts perfectly smooth.
‘99 Toyota Avalon with 270k miles on the original engine and transmission. Still running great!!
It seems weird that no one in cold weather hasn’t mentioned frost build up on inside of windshield when you don’t let defrost air warm up. That’s the main reason I let it idle.
So annoying to have to pull over when the windshield frosts over and you’re scraping the inside of the windshield after already having scraped the outside after starting car…
I’ve never had this issue in cold weather before. I’ve had it happen on startup sometimes but after a minute or two it’s been fine
Absolutely. It's a safety issue. Start the darn car, go back inside a make coffee. Case closed
Now you know when it's cold the engine burns more liters per 100km of fuel during cold weather, and burns less fuel in warm weather, this is because the air temperature in the cylinder differs depending on the air temperature outside, so if a cold air enters the cylinder and it gets compressed, it won't be very warm, just a bit, but if a normal or warm air enters the cylinder and it gets compressed, it will be very warm.
So your engine consumes more fuel in cold weather than in normal weather, because the air inside the cylinder is not very hot so the engine needs more fuel so that it gets powered, so the higher the temperature, the powerful the combustion is, and the more power it makes.
@@CasamTheAnimatorinteresting. I heard that cold air, being more dense than hot air, will make more pressure in the explosion thus meaning more hp
You pretty much said it right. Iv been working on cars for a while now and i used to let it warm up but then an older mechanic explained to me why it was not good too do that. On top of that the modern cars are built different to handle these kind of things but I agree with you man 👍👍.
On especially cold days (NYC, so relative), I'll start up the car and just let it fast-idle naturally to get the oil circulating and up to pressure. Might take a minute or two. After that, I'll just drive verrrrrrry easily. If I can get away with just letting it fast-idle in drive with a gentle few taps on the accelerator when needed, I'll do that. I'll even pull over and let go any cars coming up behind me so they don't have to wait. By the time I'm at the on-ramp to the expressway, I can do a sort of reduced-power takeoff up the ramp and on, get up to speed with constant throttle, then just keep it moving. No revving, no flooring it, nothing. Once it's warm, then I can drive normally. Also, when it's especially cold out, I'll also partially/mostly block off my radiator to speed up warmup and to reduce air-cooling at highway speeds.
This is really useful !
If you’re cold starting you’ll notice the RPMs sit higher… wait for the RPMs to drop and then go… it doesn’t take that long to warm up whatsoever when idle… you’ve got MAYBE 2-5 mins and RPMs drop to what you should be at
Pretty sound advice for the most part. Only thing I want to add is, that just because the engine temp gauge has reached operating temp, that doesn’t mean all the oil has too. You still need to pay attention to how smooth your transmission feels during shifts as a proper gauge of full lubrication, and a sign the whole system is now ready for more throttle and higher rpm.
The worst part of this question is the answer is a bit long. Engines are thermal machines, they are designed to run at specific tolerances, and these are obtained once the engine is in the operative temperature range. In an ideal world, let it warm-up all you want with a obd scanner to read the temp accurately, just then, start to drive. No one has that amount of time, but let it idle 5 mins is not a bad idea, you get your oil warmed a bit and the engine will reach op temp sooner.
The most critical wear condition in an engine is the cold start-up.
Start and drive it is just a bad idea, thinking that while you are driving the engine will get hotter sooner is right, but partially, because you are applying load to a cold engine, and as i mentioned before, the engine needs an specific temp range to work.
Cars are designed that way? Well, they have a thermostat to allow the engine get hotter sooner, but that doesn't occur in 2 minutes, and you can apply a lot of load in a 5 min span.
Subaru recommends to "do not drive hard" until the blue temp light is gone. Manufacturers won't care if don't know how to use your car, if it breaks sooner, it will be better for them, because they will still be making more money out of that sell.
IMO, do what you want, just don't sell it as a "well cared car". You keep people like me in bussiness with this practices (im a mechanic).
Rule I follow is, if the car is cold is stay below 2k rpm. Until the engine is up to temp. When it's -20C the car idles at 1500 to 2k rpm anyway. Other issue which people don't pay attention to is transmission oil temp. This is important mainly for cvts.
It's good that no one is holding a gun to your head saying that you should do it one way or another. So do what your common sense tells you is best.
Cold start to red line you can spin a bearing or blow the head gasket. Given alot of cars have some type of protection not to allow you to red line till the engine gets up to temp, ie BMWs
I always store my Toyota (5W-30) and BMW (20W-50) in garage. With car, I am idling for 30 seconds and that is the time when I am putting my bike out of the way. It is GDI and just cruising through the streets before I step on the gas on open roads. With bike it is more complex because oil is like honey and it has air cooled engine. So I let the motorcycle go for a few minutes to warm up parallel with the heated grips and sits. After that it is riding smoothly. Some additives like valve and injection cleaners can help a little with a ruff star when temperatures hit -15°C. But the biggest help you can have is when the vehicle is stored in a dry and (slightly) warmer place.
So we engineers make miracles when they say “ if its new, you dont need to wait” is not like we change the science of how metals changes their properties.
Your engine will WEAR OUT Faster if you start driving right away, actually.
The goal here is to warm up your engine with the least possible RPMs. A good rule of thumb is warming up your engine for at least 3-5 minutes.
Sources for your claim?
I usually use remote start as I approach the vehicle. Or I get in, start it up, and plug my phone in, adjust everything, and then take off. It probably takes a minute at the most. In the summer I just get in and go. FYI: The only reason most people "warm up" isn't to protect the engine. It's because they want to get into a warm vehicle. lol
I like how this guy is not trying to be Mr. right, “Is your car do what you think is better”
Thanks!
Normally I never really warm up the car, moreso I wait for the oil to circulate.
I drive a 2019 Sedan. On cold starts, the engine will be idling higher, at 1000rpm for 15-20 seconds, and I hear the valves clacking away. After about 20 seconds, the engine will rev itself and spike to maybe 1200 for a second and then settle to its slower operating idle speed of maybe 800. The valves will also stop clacking at the same moment. I believe that signal means the oil have fully circulated the engine. That’s my signal the car is ready. I don’t even shift out of park until I hear the signal
On cold days (below 35F) I will actually wait for the car to warm up because the transmission doesn’t seem to like shifting on cold oil. I get stuck in first gear until the car gets warmed up. I might idle in park or drive around on idle thrust
Had to be careful with my 04 pontiac grand am gt, had to warm it up some (1/2 way to mid) before taking off or the low coolant light would come on for around a minute if i got up to around 40mph without warming it up some. Love to hear what you guys think
I had a 1983 302 Ford Bronco XLT if you even tried to leave right away the truck would stall randomly had to let it warm up at least 10 min or so. Now days with electronic fuel injection no one really experiences this having to warm up an engine/carburetor to get going. There is also frost on windows possibly a fog lucky I use rubbing alcohol in my windshield washer fluid and when I clean my windows makes that less of a problem. You can also push on the gas at a low RPM if you are worried about idling to warm up.
I not saying I don’t disagree with you both things are right but last winter in South Dakota it got down to -50 for about 2 days and I had my car parked out side and I went to start it to let it warm up. Because it was just so cold. What are your thoughts would u just get in and drive? Or let it warm up?
Probably doesn’t make much difference, especially at that temp just don’t rev it too high for a whole.
The colder the engine the higher the wear rate ! And remember, as an example, the cylinder head bolts reach correct torque only when the engine is at normal operating temperature. I.e. DO NOT pull max hp out of an engine until « she’s » out of cold mode !
Redline put more strain on the engine. The best method is start the car, let idle within a minute for things to settle up, get yourself comfortable then gradually take off for the first few minutes guarantee your car will thanks you .
Depending on the temperature. When it's winter, I never just get in the car and drive. I don't feel comfortable until I know the oil has been somewhat warmed up. So it will idle at least probably 2-4 minutes. Now in any other climate where the temperatures are warm at least, I'll get in the car but I'm probably going to let it idle for at least 30 to 60 seconds before taking off. Usually in that time, it will idle down and once it idles down, that's when I go
I like to idle for a couple seconds to a minute or two. So that everything is properly oiled and the oil-temp to start rising. My problem is when i go home from work. Because as soon as i leave the parking lot there is a really steep and long hill. I have a petrol 3.2L Straight 6 engine and i need around 65% throttle and above 2700rpm and barely reaches 20km/h. I really dont like this at cold engine. From work i usually wait 2-5m, But should i wait a little longer at idle or just go as soon as the rpms drop? Its a 2007 Volvo s80II P3 if it matters
Doesn’t matter, I have a hill right when I leave my driveway and hit it at 4000 rpm on a just started engine, I wouldn’t worry too much.
@@KurtofTrades Ok, thanks!
Hello Kurt. What you said about modern vehicles [1990's and later] hold truer not to idel long to warm up a vehicle. This advice could be harmful to older vehicles and especially carburetored vehicles. If you are running synthetic oil in winter with recommended oil and levels, not warming up a modern vehicle is acceptable. The Dodge performance 5.7L power plant had wear problems with the valve train resulting from prolonged ideling [police departments especially]. This is a design flaw of the OEM oil pump.
A median compromise from a reputable mechanic suggests a warm up of 30 seconds will allow for the oil to flow around engine parts sufficiently to reduce wear while saving on fuel. I don't believe 30 seconds is too long a wait...correct? Wonderful video Kurt. Drive safe, lawfully and Shalom.
I have a turbo-diesel SUV that takes 15-20 minutes to get up to operating temperature under normal conditions.
So what I do is I start it, get ready (put seatbelt on, etc.) usually around 10-15 seconds, then drive off. I make sure to keep the RPMs under 1500 (it usually shifts at 1300rpm) until it reaches operating temp (takes around 10 minutes of driving). Then I make sure to ease in the turbo so I don't hit it with max boost immediately.
If it's cold outside (below 60 degrees Fahrenheit), I may let it idle for a minute before putting the gearbox in Drive and slowly moving the car forward. Is that okay?
I have the same car. Good to know I have been wasting time and fuel thinking I was doing good for my engine.
Let the coldstart routine go, and drive out when the engine goes to normal idle. Drive softly for the first minutes until the temperature goes to normal temperature for the engine
I usually start driving about 20-30 seconds after turning on the engine, and i just let it idle down the street. The reason i don't like sitting when the engine first turns on is because i read that idle fuel consumption when the engine first starts is temporarily 5 times more than when warmed up.
In a warm running engine, the metal actually "gives" a little in responss to the tremendous forces it's subjected to. If it's subjected to those forces while cold, the metal will wear.
I mostly disagree. I let it idle for a short while because when your engine turns on the metal is cold. When you make a cold substance hot really quickly the metal shrinks and contracts more and will shorten the life of the engine. So I let it warm up and make the cold metal warm up more gradually so that the metal doesn’t change temp so quickly. I think idling will cause less damage than immediately driving my engine which in Minnesota is sometimes below freezing.
Neither extreme is good for the engine. The happier middle is to allow the engine to idle for a minute or two, simply to warm the oil a little, and allow the pistons to expand to roundness. The pistons expand very quickly, the first engine part to reach operating temperature. The brief idle period is no load on the engine parts, especially the piston skirts. We want the pistons to be rounder before driving.
The first 2 to 3 minutes should be normal moderate driving, no hard acceleration bursts. Most engine wear occurs within the first three minutes of operation. The engine reaches operating temperature much faster, but always in moderate driving in the warmup period. NEVER red line the engine during warmup.
My neighbor remote starts his truck for 20 mins at 6am and its very loud. Do you recommend using spray foam insulation into this exhaust pipe to stop the problem?
While that would likely work, I don’t think I can endorse that solution 😂
If my windows are frosted up, I just start my car and idle it the amount of time it takes me to scrape my windows off. By then it's warm enough to take care of any residual fogging as well. If there's no frosting, I just let it idle long enough to let the fluids circulate...about 30 seconds or so.