Americans Have No Idea How Much Fuel Idling Uses
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2018
- How much fuel does engine idling use? Does idling waste fuel? How much fuel does it take to start a car? Do engine start-stop systems save gas? The truth about engine start stop systems.
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How much fuel does an idling engine use? After how long will an idling engine use more fuel than simply shutting the engine off, and then restarting it? It turns out, most Americans have no idea, as the journal of Energy Policy interviewed 1,300 US drivers, and the average time guessed was 3.6 minutes! 3.6 minutes worth of engine idling fuel required to simply start up an engine!
Well, let's put the myths to rest and look at actual data, published in the journal of SAE. Researchers took two identical engines and measured their idle fuel consumption, how much fuel they required to start up, and then spent time conducting real world driving tests to see if engine start-stop systems actually save fuel. Check out the video to see the results!
Reference Material:
SAE Idle Stop Fuel Consumption - bit.ly/2PzNRzZ
Energy Policy Study - bit.ly/2wGkrcp
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I don’t turn my engine off at stop lights, I redline it while I’m waiting
Beat it like a rented mule! :-)
if your gonna waste fuel while idling, might as well waste more while redlining.
Just sitting there BRAAAABAAAABAAAAAAA lol
Yeah that makes so much sense, why has nobody thought about that... Youre supposed to just rev it up to the fuel cutoff (redline) and you'll save fuel.
power move
My Dodge Hemi gets 5 gas stations to the mile.
ET Don sounds accurate.
When I go looking for new cars, I always look for something terrible on gas, I much rather spend gas $ on that Hemi than have a car that gets 40MPG and doesn't move.
I gotcha beat on that. My Tundra automatically beeps and gives me a warning light every time I pass a gas station.
@@jasoncentore1830 huh?
My mule gets about 5 handfulls of grass to the mile.
I've tried a similar experiment with my motorbike a few years ago. I found that I could save about 10% fuel by stopping the motor at red lights on my usual commute. But I'm not just worried about wearing out the starter motor, I also think that I'd drain the battery pretty quickly without longer stretches to recharge it.
Used to be a bike mechanic, we had some people doing this and they ran exactly into those issues, you shouldn't do it manually if the vehicle doesn't have a dedicated system.
I'd also advise against it on safety grounds, as thinking about when to start/stop the engine might distract you from what's going on in traffic.
@@lucashira337 Yep. Definitely don't do this in urban America; especially after dark.
I'll pick safety everytime, whether on my bike or in my car. I want my engine on so that if I do not like the speed at which the car behind me is coming in, I have the option to go, to move, to drive forward, to get out of the way. Regardless of the wear on the starter or the potential battery drain. My safety comes first. But I also drive very defensively. I often get funny looks at intersections because I will leave whole car lengths in front of me so that I have space cushions.
I've always operated under the assumption that 30 seconds of idling would use about the same amount of fuel as stop starting the engine, but I don't care if I'm waiting for a 2 minute light. Safety first.
You could push start the bike if it is possible on yours
But you might look silly doing it
In India, red lights also have timer display, which shows time left in seconds for the light to turn green, so that a driver can decide if the red light is long enough to turn off the engine. In America, I haven't seen timer beside red lights for vehicles, so I try to estimate the same by looking at pedestrian crossing timer which some junctions have here.
Cap. There are no traffic lights in India.
@@nabotftp41 In the cities there are
That’s because most lights in America are sensor-based and not on a timer.
Come on why would you turn off the engine when the heat in India is unbearable?
As an Indian American who's visited India numerous times, I find this to be completely inaccurate as most drivers treat red lights over there as yield signs lol. But then again, I visited only a limited few areas of India. But still, the fact remains.
About 25 years ago my dad said "8 seconds" worth of idle to a car start. Amazed was so on the nose.
It makes sense, warns up for a few seconds at maybe 1,500 RPM to start, figure 4 seconds of startup with more fuel use is equivalent to twice that time at 800 rpm.
I cant really belive the amount he is holding in the beginning, when the average consumption of my cars while idling is around 0,9 to 1.5 liters this should be way less in 3 minutes, also you should factor in how harmfull starting your engine so often is to your car especially when its cold
I too wish, this generation should have learnt something from their parents, or grandparents....
My Grandpa always said "Knowledge not learnt is KNOWLEDGE LOST...."
@@swagger0im0lachskost start/stop systems don't work unless the engine is at the optimal temperature
@@swagger0im0lachskost The car cannot be that cold if it was running less than a minute ago. But I do worry about all the power this consumes especially if the car is being driven short distance and cannot recharge as fast as it loses power.
This video is nonsense because it wasn't explained on a whiteboard.
It didn't include any formulas either, so his statements can't be considered credible. Lol
David Manivanh I 😅
Lol i was waiting for the white board too
David Manivanh but the videoquality is superior.
The reasoning / explanation didn't require anything to be written down, maybe that's why he didn't include it.
Start/Stop systems are mandatory by law in germany for like 7 years now. The system never shut off the car if its too hot outside so the AC is running or the other way when its way too cold. I think start/stop systems are engineered very good after having them around for 7 years now.
My Audi is now 6 years old and I never had to change a thing which wasnt on the plan.
They wear more on the engine and cause oil circulation issues, this isn’t debatable so don’t bother debating. Germany is bad
@@TheOne_p how do they wear more on the engine?
@@TheOne_p "So don't bother debating" is all I need to read to realise you have no actual argument or data to back up your claims. Also you think an entire country is bad because you don't like their automotive regulations? You honestly sound like an insufferable person to be around if this is how you talk to people
@@TheOne_p compared to what is Germany bad?
@@anantav51Other than the unpleasant idea of your car being able to shut itself off on its own, Modern engines are pretty well built for the most part but even with that fact cars with stop start systems will see increased wear and earlier failure in certain components, The most affected are your starter and battery.
The constant drops in oil pressure really aren't doing your car any favors either.
My guess was 10 seconds. Most engines are somewhat bigger than 1.5 L, so I may have been pretty close to spot-on. It's shocking to hear that the average American's guess was 3.6 minutes. But I do see a lot of people just sitting in their cars with their engines idling for long periods of time in traffic, while waiting in line at a gas station, after just getting into the car, while waiting for a passenger, etc.
Sorry man I ain't shutting my car off in Arizona while still in it unless I absolutely have to. I do not need to simulate the conditions in my oven when broiling a steak.
@@Demonslayer20111did you know that the windows in cars can go up and down?
@@runed0s86 when it’s 102 degrees outside, rolling the windows down isn’t exactly going to cool you off
I usually turn off my start-stop because it's more of a nuisance, almost always it shuts the engine by the exact time I have to move again. But I always shut the engine manually when I expect a longer wait, maybe except when I really want AC to keep running.
Where I live turning off the car in summer is a death sentence.
There’s a special place in heaven for people that use both imperial and metric
Gio Damn canadians
My work does because we have customers all over the world and blueprints are given by them lol
But the dimensions are all wonky because they kept screwing up the conversions.
So pretty much all of the UK?
or you could grow up and join the rest of the world
It's a miracle when my car starts, I'm not about to turn it off!
Well this video is not about old cars, it's all about the cars with auto stop function from factory. They are built for starting and stopping without wearing out
😂😂😂😂 ahhh! I know that feeling not everyone can afford a new car and sometimes its a miracle for some these new cars to start
@@Simon-cb4bq its gonna put more stress on the engine and not last nearly as long.
@@coflyer2949 alot of newer cars have this now. They are designed to start and stop automatically when you come to a stop. The engines are built to start and stop over and over again without wearing out quickly. It's a good feature and cuts down on unnecessary fuel consumption.
@@Josiahsutton1 its extremely jarring in luxury cars for it to start and stop. In Jaguars at the least if you move the wheel even 0.00001 inches it turns the engine on to run the hydraulic steering rack. These systems need refinement and the ability to be shut off. Some companies do not let you. All I want are options.
In Germany you actually have to shut off your engine if you hold at a train cross. But a lot of people don't know that.
In the Netherlands, it's the same. I always shut off my engine whenever I have to wait at a level crossing and a draw bridge
Two cucked nations.
@@bjthedjdutchdude1992 I think I actually never saw a draw bridge here. But I guess they are rather common in the Netherlands
@@tcode3564 where is "here?"
@@bjthedjdutchdude1992
Probably germany, though they definitely exist over smaller rivers or near bigger mooring (?) places for boats.
this is why i love hybrids because those batteries come in clutch to saving gas when you’re in traffic or just stopped in general
When you think about it, your car gets 0 mpg when it’s idling
Dane Taylor broooo
I dont think you have to think about it
You could just think of it as hours per gallon, which makes a bit more sense in our non freedom units since it's the other way round (l/100km -> l/h)
sooooo using european measure l/100km in gas usage it's infinite
Exactly, the lower the mpg the higher the consumption.
now do one explaining that using your turn signal doesn’t wear out the battery
A common misconception among Mercedes and BMW drivers, apparently 😂
I asked a cop a few years back how much money the department saves by ordering their cruisers without turn indicators...he wasn't impressed.
@@1966johnnywayne how much time did you do for that stunt??
@@brucemorris3830 Audi drivers .....
@@TheXanderGrim Audi drivers are RAPIDLY coming into their own as the new worst of the worst, agreed!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙄
I always heard as a kid it was more about the wear and tear on the engine components then fuel consumption.
Than* although then sort of works
But once an engine has been running and oil has been pumped around, starting is far less of an issue.
Same. thats what i was hoping this would account for. Middle-aged cars that use standard 5W 30 or 10 W 30 oil probably depends on how long it takes a warm car to get oil flowing back up at the upper cylinder and valves.
As always great information and great delivery, keep up the content Sir. You are outstanding!!
What if I told you... My car takes more than 7 seconds to start😂😂😂
If it's an automatic with all the computers and junk these days seems like it can take 15-20 seconds for it to be "ready" to move once you let go of the key...
Get a better car ;-)
@@nigratruo better? Newer ones seem much worse. Especially push button start type if you put it in gear too quickly after hitting the button it will stall not just be laggy. And many new ones make you wait a bit before they allow you to re-crank, the key or button seems to go thru the computer before the starter solenoid.
LMAOOOO
I think you need new spark plugs, a stater, and maybe a battery.
Wait let me get this straight... The car uses less fuel when it's not running???
That math checks out.
Weird, huh? Haha
Justin Jones It's amazing, however, the number of people who will try to argue otherwise.
Stop lights are the biggest waster of fuel. I jumped up +8mpg getting home on city streets the other night when I only hit a single stop light in 7 miles.
Fuel savings was the big driver of 'Right Turn On Red' laws -- allowing drivers to turn instead of waiting for the light to change.
@@AndrewAMartin Unfortunately that's only beneficial if your city has competent people programming your traffic lights so you don't get stopped at every light going in a straight line.
literally all my gripes about the start/stop systems have been completely crushed by this video lmao. well done, sir.
Great! Now, learn when to use the word "literally".
@@carlwilliams6977 I used it the way it is meant to be used. As in 'not figuratively'.
@@carlwilliams6977 literally crushed his statement with that, man.
Damn, I literally wouldn't of known D:
@@aes0p895 You can crush a grape. How do you literally crush a gripe? Sounds pretty figurative to me! In addition...as is usually the case lately, there was no need to say literally to begin with! If you hadn't used it, you couldn't have misused it! Learn, or wallow in your ignorance. The choice is yours!
I'm Australian. I didn't know, but I tested it by deciding to stop the engine at my 8 stoplights in my town & it appeared to save fuel compared driving like a typical driver. 7 seconds is longer than I expected.
“Wait, I’m an American” *proceeds to drink gasoline with a disappointed look* that had me dying lmao
I'm sure it was just water with added colored flavor.
Yeah that had me dying too lol
it wasn't high octane
OMG, that was so unexpected. I am ROTFLMAO!
So many hidden gems in those few frames 😅
I'm just happy when I can get my car to start in general.
MitchManEXE 😂😂😂😂
Same
Haha maybe a starter motor or new battery will solve your problem
Me too haha
😂
It would be interesting to see how quickly the oil pressure drops when an engine is shut off. And if the fluctuation in oil pressure due to constant stop starts effects engine wear? I have always wondered why auto manufacturers never considered an electric oil pump to pressurize the system before starting an engine to reduce wear. Also if the alternator and starter are one unit in a stop/ start system does that double the possibility for failure in the system and also increase the expense?
Probably because electric oil pumps would be much more prone to failure compared to those driven by the engine, which is a reason why BMW has so many problems with their water pumps failing over the years because they chose to make them electric.
Majority of engine makers now are using coated bearings so an extra layer of protection.
Very fast actually, within 1-2 seconds pressure drops about 90%... at least if your car has 100'000miles... new engines i dont know, but it will still drain fast, because oil isnt compressable, so already a tiny leak will make pressure drop very fast...
Pretty fast but it also builds up pretty much just as fast, unless there's an egregious design fault, this is a non-issue
Excellent video and explanation. Thank you!
"It turns out engineers ARE capable of thinking about those things." As an engineer, I also know that many project managers are penny-pinchers and don't always listen to the engineers despite the data. Priorities.
Know that feeling.
Reminds me of that Chernobyl show on hbo lmao. Every business and company is trying to save money.
That's because there's a triple constraint as a project manager that they are trying to stay within in order to meet all goals of the project. Staying within the planned cost and whatever buffers were included are fundamental to a project. You start letting all of the stakeholders have their way and the project as a whole will be a failure. What that problem sounds like to me is that the PM didn't do a good job of getting the necessary data during the planning phase in the first place.
@@80s_Gamr and yet there are tens of nuclear reactions running for years with only 1 or 2 major incidents
@@catinthehat5140 I wasn't talking about Chernobyl or nuclear reactors.
In a Phoenix summer if I turn off my car off for 7 seconds I use about 2 gallons of sweat.
Alternative fuel XD
Also the AC is designed to handle the engine turning off, on a longer stop on a hot day the car will actually start back itself if the interior temperature starts to rise too much. Air circulation is still happening of course so it won't feel too bad.
You need to install a water misting system in front of the AC condenser to increase its efficiency.
I was actually thinking about this because I also live in Phoenix lol
@@gunnergrant12 same
Thanks for the thorough explanation!
Thanks. This is really helpful. This video corrected about the fuel consumption when idling.
A friend of mine used to leave his van idling when he'd stop by a friend's, or ran inside a store, because "it takes more gas to start it than it does to leave it idling". I said "Not when you leave it idling for half an hour it doesn't!"
This was more accurate with carburetors where you would need to choke them and dump an extra rich mixture in at the start which was often quite wasteful. Now with fuel injection it isn’t correct at all.
@@hugegamer5988 exactly. And his van was a late 80s Chevy G20 conversion van. Which had TBI.
Good information. I think a bigger waste than idling at stop lights is people accelerating like a bat out of hell towards those stop lights, slamming on the brakes, then flooring it to the next red light.
Yea but to fix that, you have to tighten the nut that holds the steering wheel.
Sitting alone in the car is the real killer - makes all the math.. meh..
That's most people. U can roll into a red light hoping that it will turn green so a full stop isn't necessary but the person behind you will not care, maybe dart around u to the right and come to a full stop to go right.
Andy Holtz 😁good stuff!
@@Chavezoid It is worse in Poland…
Thanks! Very informative. You have changed my driving habits - for the better
Thank you so much, I have often wondered what the threshold is for it to be beneficial to turn on the start stop system!
@1:27 Now we know why EE has greyed so early: fuel consumption.
hahaha, most grey hair comments are lame, but this one is choice.
LMAO. I mostly blame my 8 year old.
Maybe EE needs to install a start/stop system to reduce his fuel consumption. :)
@prabal34 Not a start-stop system. He needs a stop-stop system!
But why he look so young lol
Did CZcams recommend me this because I just sat in my car watching CZcams for 30minutes before walking 10 feet into my house.
Xavier Kane it depends. Were you idling? Lol
30mins? Lol
hahahahha
Was your wife inside the house?
Most relatable comment I’ve ever seen
I live in New Hampshire, we get cold winters. My neighbor has four pickup trucks, three of them Diesels, he has remote starters on them . Three of the trucks are driven by people in his house, they will start the engines and let them idle for 20-30 minutes when it is really cold. It's noisy and the exhaust fumes are obnoxious. Other than that he's a great neighbor.
Good data thanks.
"wait im american" drinks antifreeze. solid gold on so many levels. give the man an Emmy
Yeah, because only americans don't know how much their cars drink either on start up or on idle.
benz merc You seem mad would you like a popsicle to calm down?
@@justancapthings9786 Trying to put someone on a "mad" frame is an old one.
Why don't you open up your popsicle business in the summer, anyway.
benz merc it's summer here. Do you want a popsicle?
@@insideimagery133 Ya you're definitely mad
A big study was done in the UK by a big motoring organisation, all cars pollute, terribly, but came to the conclusion, taking in the huge amount of energy it takes to tool up and produce a car, is to keep the old ones going as long as possible. .i have a bullet proof mazda 6, 2003 that will probably run forever
Amen my 2003 Toyota takes a licking and keeps on ticking.
I have a bullet proof police interceptor. We shall reign supreme during the apocalypse
I have a 2002 Lexus LS 430 with 221k miles. Going strong, with only one expense outside of routine maintenance that cost more than $200: wheel bearing and hub assembly. Other issues include trunk and hood struts/shocks ($15 a piece), and two power lock motors ($7 inner motor instead of the full lock assembly).
I have a 2004 Gran Marquis with over 300k miles and she Will. Not. Die.
I got a new truck recently, so now it’s up to me to keep her in shape until she dies or I pass her down to my future kids in who knows how long
@@waqasusmans Same with my 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor. The only reason it needed rear wheel bearings is because of me backing it down boat ramps into salt water. It also needed a starter motor ($65 for a foreign knock-off which works great after three more expensive remanufactured OEM ones didn't work), a window motor (don't remember the cost), and an AC over-pressure valve ($10).
Thanks for this video!
Good info, thanks.
Do a video on start-stop starters, and how they are different from regular starters...
I like this idea!
Then there's Mazda's i-stop, which works without using a starter motor. After the engine shuts off, the pistons are aligned ready for fuel injection and ignition, which could kick the engine back into life.
The ones that I have seen use the alternator as a motor to turn the engine over instead of using the starter. Much more gentle on the mechanical parts not having a gear slam into the flywheel ring gear every time.
@@louispoche4312 thats genius. Even better now you dont have to worry about replacing a starter. Alternators can already be repurposed as Brushless DC motors but often arent used for such purposes. This would be a good way to integrate it into a vehicle
@@OtherDalfite so alternators will become 600 bucks are more... no thanks.
And that's why I stop the engine at each Red Light.
(Ok, I do, but not for that reason, it's because it fails at idle rpms and stops anyway).
That's not a flaw, it's a feature. :D
Smart car maybe ?
Have you checked or replaced your idle position sensor or throttle position sensor yet?
Just pat the dash and say "Clever girl...."
Replace your headlight fluid
This is the exact sort of content I'd subbed your channel for and you haven't disappointed for the last 5 years! Not to mention, I like your sense of humour too!
Keep up the good work!
I appreciate the kind words, thanks for watching all this time! :)
My concern is not about the engineers designing a starter for more starts. It’s the fact that all the accountants care about is the starter lasting through warranty.
Yes, but you could say that about _any_ components, the starter motor isn't any different from that point of view.
The price of replacing the starter far out weighs the cost of gas.
Let alone when that sensor fails .
And you have to pay to the mechanics shop to have it replaced
How about when you lose you job from showing up late ,or not at all .
@@rtelles1127 And how many cars with stop/start have had the starter motor fail because of this? The savings you make on fuel will definitely outweigh the cost of a new starter motor if, like the vast majority of people, you don't wear out your starter motor and so you don't need to get a new one.
@@stevieinselby Maybe. But I highly doubt it. My starter went out on my Honda 100 miles out of the warranty. Luckily, Honda was willing to overlook the fact that it was only 100 miles outside of it and replaced it as if it was still under warranty, free of charge. It would've been 500 or more. It would be interesting to see how much on average an idle start/stop mechanism wears on the starter. I really can't see it being that much of a savings.
@@stevieinselby if the car was designed with a start/stop system, the starter is also designed to start many more times over it's life.
i would buy a car with a start/stop system, but i wouldn't do it manually on a car not designed for that.
Terrific video. Thank you so much !
RS. Canada
I’d personally like to see a study on how extra wear starting/stoping an engine often causes. I mean at the very least your putting extra wear on your starter and depending on the car the cost of replacing the starter more often may be more than your fuel savings
He talked about the issue with starter in the video
Starters are engineered to handle a ton of starts, usually you won't have more than one replacement in the vehicle's lifespan. They didn't just make a thing that will increase starter usage by many fold and think nah, that should be fine.
plus all the shifting around of the transmission
The starter motor including the solenoid that pushes the gear to engage the flywheel has been tested through a few hundred thousand cycles, no worries. Have you considered the extra wear on the engine from leaving it idling? Main bearings, conrods, pistons, cylinders, camshafts, cam followers, valves and guides...
Me: starts looking at comments
Jason: "Now I see your mind wandering"
Me: "SORRY SORRY!"
I was literally reading your comment when he said it
@Zachzedzach why does this seem to be way to common- I'm scared it happened to me as well
Same lmao. Makes sense, main info is over about 1min before we get to your comment 🤷♂️
If the light turns green and 8 people in front of me all have to turn their car back on and put it in gear first because of this video... I will find you EE
😂😂😂
Hence automation
Takes less than a second - no time if you're lazy and drive an auto
Whats the problem with waiting like 3 seconds more?
Lag, which means 3 less cars getting through the traffic.
Good info.
On a daily commute you have a good idea of how long the light will stay red. I'm a switcher-offer and I've been working on ten seconds plus minus. Manufacturers (except Lucas of course) test starter motors through tens and hundreds of thousands of cycles, so that isn't going to be a problem. Thank you Jason you have no idea how long I've been waiting for someone to back up commonsense with engineering sense.
I’ve always turned my truck off at railroad tracks when I know I’ll be idling for a while...fiancé laughs at me...who’s laughing now 😬😬😬
greenpeace?
Her, cus her engine will last longer
You I guess, but unless you show her this, she wouldn't care.
@@Hans-gb4mv Yeah but it's not good for your engine to constantly turn it off and on.
the more you start the car the faster it will wear engine starter and car battery and it will cost you more than oil savings.. So at the end she will laugh
I used a lot my parent's car, which has a start/stop system. I have to say, I was pretty annoyed by it. A reason might be that the engine stopping is unfamiliar, so my brain registered it as something going wrong, and I thought that surely the car consumed so much fuel restarting the engine anyway.
I'm glad you clarified this subject
Yes, it takes some getting used to. I hated start stop systems but I got used to it after a short while.
The trick is to let go of the brake lightly 1 or 2 seconds before you want to go so the engine is started right when you want to go.
I've driven plenty of cars that were old and were developing problems, so I'm actually somewhat familiar with my car stalling at a stoplight. The only thing that kept me from worrying (I knew the car had start/stop, but it still somehow surprised me) was the engine shutting off "cleanly", no chugging, no spikes then dips in rpm, just the engine shutting off.
The newer systems are dramatically better than the ones of only a few years ago. I too was very annoyed by the original start-stop systems.
They tend to turn off way too quickly. As opposed to the 7 seconds mentioned in this video, a lot of the time, the engine will turn off at a stop sign
I would be curious to see engine wear over the life of a vehicle. I wonder if start stop that many times has any affect on cylinder walls or any other hard parts
Tears up the starter, with newer engines it causes excessive wear on the valvetrain.
@@megamiteexplosion
I've been using Start/Stop system on my scooter and so far no problem with the engine, there was a problem where the battery dropped below 12,4V and shut off the engine
@@megamiteexplosion or your brain lol. Cars with start/stop have re-designed starters and engine to support such workload.
@@megamiteexplosion starter on my coworkers truck went out after only 9 months
I wonder if leaving the engine idling causes any wear on cylinder walls or any other hard parts.
Thx Jason, like always very intersting video's with a lot of information.
I never use start/stop while I know it would be beneficial for fuel saving.
Of course engineers only will develop something if it is worth it.
I'm shocked by the real numbers...
Does actual engines still desactivate injection for some cylinders for fuel saving in certain circumstances?
Engineers will also develop stuff if they're commissioned to via their way of employment.. look at all the crap you've seen over the years.. not EVERYONE thought the product was the best ever.. sometimes you're getting paid and there's a timeline (especially half the crap you see on WISH these days)
Those kinds of engines tend to have a shorter cylinder life, as they're under the heat of the rest of the engine without being lubricated as much by piston movement at operating temperatue.
Sometimes I will turn off the car instead of idling; most often in a drive-thru restaurant. Why I tend to idle in a traffic jam: because the ass behind me starts leaning on the mfking horn if I don't move up 0.000002 cm once the opportunity arises.
@acktually aintaddingup a lot of fast food locations are drive thru only since covid hit. It's more of a problem with too little staff because no one want to work anymore now tht unemployment and government checks pay more than actually working
Autonomous cars being ubiquitous should help those kinds of drivers calm down a lot a bit
@@lasercat538 Uh no. That's the employer cutting the budget because their overall profits are down.
@@sportagus3 overall profits are down, but we're hiring at $11 starting out. That's what it was before covid, but now we're understaffed. We maintain 17 hardee's locations and most of them are understaffed. There's been multiple times where they had to close the store for the day cause everyone called off or walked out. Getting money for sitting at your house doing nothing is a decent motivator for not getting an actual job
@@lasercat538 then improve the conditions for the workers
[ commenting before i watch ] I've always had these questions. This is why this channel exists. Somebody once told me starting the engine (ignition) consumes more fuel than idling for 5 minutes.
I wonder what the numbers are for carbureted engines, which is probably when these statements first started being made. I dont see SAE running these tests on '69 camaros and chargers however,
Yeah, I think everybody has heard that, but I think that the myth behind this is when you compare it to starting a cold engine. when the engine is cold it takes a while before fuel consumption is normalized.
Also commenting before watching. If what you were told were true, I'd expect you'd see your fuel needle drop noticeably every time you turned your car's engine off and on.
And for carbureted engines there is the probability that it will not start quickly and you'd have to pump the gas a few times to get it to go. For my daily driver motorcycle, sometimes it don't even start hahahaha
maybe for a jet engine. i thought the same thing though.
Great, actionable science - as usual. Thanks!
I’m sure the start/stop system saves fuel over a conventional system. The loss of a/c at a stop light would be enough for me to not want the start/stop system. But, I’d like to see a cost comparison of fuel savings vs the cost of replacing that starter and the giant battery that system uses.
I’ve had a 2014 car with a start-stop system. Had to change the battery once, after about 7 years. The new AGM battery was roughly €120. I’ve never had issues with the starter after almost 10 years.
So in my case, the car absolutely saved more fuel than the cost of a single new AGM battery in 10 years
Engine idling with air conditioning on for one hour in Arizona = Worth whatever it costs.
An interesting question would be whether the aircon uses all the power generated by the idling engine that would otherwise be wasted when the A/C is off. Because if all that wasted energy can be used to run the A/C instead, well then it's no longer wasted so you aren't losing anything by idling.
@@Berkeloid0 It would deffo use more fuel than just idling without ac on, how much would be interresting to know though
Just keep the windows close when using your air conditioning, otherwise the ambient temperature in Arizona will decrease.
Yup! Especially when the local 5-0 closes a busy highway due to a minor fender bender, and you're stuck in the middle lane. Gotta love Oro Valley.
^^
I learned that green kool-aid can power car engines.
I learned in the Navy that Grape Kool-aid is really good for stripping wax off the floors.
Bruh
Plot twist. It was antifreeze.
Jeffrey Lebowski damn lol
Don't drink the coolaid
I had a golf. I was annoyed for 2 things. 1) the start/stop system I had to turn off every time I start the car, and 2) the headlights could never be turned off as long as the car is started. The problem of the start/stop system was that there were more than once when the engine failed to restart on a slope. I lost the power thus the foot brake as well. So the car just slowly roll back despite me practically standing on it. Luckily, both time there were no other cars behind me and I brought my car to a stop without hitting anything.
its too bad that some ess don't have pitch angle sensor in the equation, and some are terribly slow
You cant drive too well . . .
I remember hearing it was around 30 seconds of idling to start a bigger engine. I wouldn't be sold on a start/stop system though. I mean they work but in the end did you save enough to pay for the extra cost or maintenance? If the goal is to save money just buy a more efficient or smaller car to start with
I drove into Dallas a couple months back in my classic truck. I came to a stop light in traffic, and when the light turned green I was surrounded by an orchestra of starters
What I got out of this is that if I'm feeling thirsty I can just drink my car fuel.
@Taylor Wang Funny guy. Apparently they don't have humor in your country. I'm sad for you, Wang.
@@xiradioI think you're the one that didn't understand the joke
@@xiradio just sit down.
This is a great idea in theory, but my mother-in-law's, Ford Fusion turns off at horrible times. I was doing a 3 point turn and it decided to stop. Because the engine was no longer on it was essentially in neutral (It's an Automatic (gross, I know)) and my gentle reverse turned into almost rolling back into the ditch. Some car do it way better though, but definitely not Ford.
Poland has nice stop lights that tell you how long to wait before the light goes green. So you know easily if its worth shutting down. But a lot of places dont have those lights, so you might not think it's worth stopping./
Next video :
"does starting/stopping wears your engine off?"
hamzterix well I know that a lot of manufacturers use an oil feed system that always allows oil to be sent to the major components within fractions of a second upon start up. With modern engines I'd assume not as much as you might think. But I'm also just an automotive tech and not an engineer lol
Yes i need this video.
Does it at least wear the starter motor off?? I would assume so.
Ariel Casanueva That’s what I want to know, surely a starter motor that’s being used dozens of times for a long-ish journey compared to just once in initial startup of one without stop/start it would in theory cause a load more wear and premature failure?
Starting your motor causes wear and tear period
If you ride a horse, you will actually be making gas as the horse idols.
🤯
But if it turns off, it gets even more gas
@@gabe8168 it will completely, totally, destroy the horse if you shut it off.
@@gabe8168 But if it turns off you'll have to jumpstart it with CPR and I find that it is quite a hassle
*idles
Ive added Ignition security systems to my cars, and I can tell you there were days that my Crown Vic ran from dawn till dusk. Bought it with 4570 idle hours, sold it with close to 5000 in the couple years I owned it. Also not me but I owned a Interceptor Utility with 13800 total hours, and 8987 idle hours. Yes it was over 9000 when I sold it. Gotta say it was pretty nice in both hot and cold days to just keep it running the entire day.
My last car had an auto-off feature. I had looked up its fuel consumption for startup vs idle, and my concern shifted to starter durability.
If it makes u feel better depending on the car the starter isn’t as expensive as the money you’d save long term on gas
Spending over 1500 on a starter and the downtime to save .10 of a gallon at a read light..... yea no thanks.
@@Vandallolwut clearly didn't watch the video or give this a second of thought. Obviously the starter is going to be built stronger to accomodate for the extra use.
@@ElderlyAnteateryou still have to start your engine multiple times if you are in stop and go traffic. No one is sitting there idling for 30 minutes saying that's more efficient than shutting it off. It's about constantly having the engine turn on and off just to save a little gas. I doubt car companies care about your future maintenance. Either way the way he presents the experiment is flawed. It does present a scenario that exists in every day commute.
@@Vandallolwutsay a red light is 3 minutes long, it’s actually .008 of a gallon 😂
*shuts off engine at every stoplight*
End of week: *calls tow truck because the starter ate your flywheel*
wanted to like this but i couldnt ruin the 69
The flywheel would eat the starter. Don't ask how I know.
@@paulmvn5431 It can go either way, but far more often in fleet maintenance, it's the flywheel missing its teeth in my experience. I maintain a fleet that does this kind of start and stop usage 6 days a week.
@@CapitalWorksPro weird. I've destroyed 3 starters within 50k miles on my Econoline van.
@@paulmvn5431 it's highly likely that your flywheel is a bit beefier than ours lol
It's videos like this that are the reason I subscribe to this channel. Like most self-styled "enthusiasts" I didn't like the start/stop system on my new GTI and thought mistakenly that any fuel efficiency advantages were probably cancelled by the fuel needed to restart the engine. But as an old professor of mine once said, "The thing about data is that it sure does cut the bulls**t."
In the meantime, I discovered another benefit of the system. Each day I make a trip to the local Starbucks and wait in line in an enclosed "tunnel" outside the store. Typically, my engine shuts down when I pull into the tunnel and when I reach the window. The baristas at the window have thanked me on multiple occasions for shutting off my engine, noting that they have to breathe exhaust fumes all day long. It's not a big thing but it's worth noting that in addition to reducing fuel consumption to some degree, start/stop technology makes the air a bit more breathable for everyone, some more than others.
For the baristas!
@@khargan27 I suggest you avoid these locations then. I have been driving for over 25 years never once been put into a situation where being able to pull off immediately would have saved damage to any car. Could you also elaborate on what happened, as I have yet to see when this could happen, I am not trolling, I am genuinely interested in being educated.
Khargan: Since you would "never own a vehicle with a start/stop system" I suspect you've never even driven one. I have. Several, in fact, including the two I own. Besides, the notion that less than a half second hesitation in your car's movement would avoid or even mitigate the impact of a vehicle bearing down on you at speed is ridiculous, especially since you would not be able to judge whether the vehicle was approaching too quickly until it was nearly on you. Furthermore, even if you make such a judgement accurately, you're probably better off bracing for a rear end collision than plowing into a vehicle in front of you or running a red light where cross traffic could well result in a far worse collision. Finally, do you really think a manufacturer would install a dangerously sluggish start/stop system in a vehicle sold to the public? If you can document any such system, feel free to cite it. I thought not.
Rear end collisions are, indeed, a problem. But they nearly always result from vehicles following too closely, a situation that has nothing to do with a start/stop system. And thankfully, such collisions have been reduced significantly since vehicles were required to add a third high mounted brake light.
Your response would be more effective if you included any facts. You're correct that you didn't say "dangerously sluggish." What you did say was that a start/stop system would prevent you from avoiding a rear end collision. If you meant something other than "dangerously sluggish" feel free to clarify.
I'll leave it to others to determine who has provided facts and logic in this discussion.
I work in service at a dealership, the alternator and starter on an idle stop start car runs about 40% more expensive to replace, the arm battery costs twice as much. Even engineering the starter and alternator to be more robust they still fail at a faster rate than cars not equipped with this function. So bottom line you waste less fuel but more money for repairs.
Good info. I'm still going to disable start / stop if I ever get one.
How about we synchronize traffic lights to reduce unnecessary idling in the first place. Then we can save fuel, time, AND starter motors!
No, it`s not good for fuel companies. Illuminates eweriwhere )))))
P.S. In Odessa, Ukraine (my city) we optimize some lights fore speed 50-60km/h(35mph), but this give no results in heavy traffic hours, but it`s good for low traffic, when you even can use cruise and passing always at green light.
Traffic lights are already synchronized but that can only be done to a certain extend
How about getting rid of traffic lights altogether and finally stop driving ourselves and let computers do it.
What we need is an app for the smartphone that not only gives you directions but turns the lights green as you get to the intersection.
Timon Schneider
No newer
I like to drive myself
Turn off your engine at the traffic light, floor it when it turns green. Saving fuel 😉
Just wait until your starter chews up all the teeth on your flywheel. Now you have to drop the transmission to replace it. Not to mention you might need a starter too. Now you have to spend a ton of money instead of just letting it run.
@@willjudice9560 actually i used to do that on a 20yo mazda with 180Mm, was able to get 5l/100km for ~10l. Did the start stop thing for maybe 10Mm. Car got scraped for being a rust bucket not worth investing into(the floor bord was litteral rust ). The starter was fine though.
Will Judice my car doesnt use starter motor to start itself
Counterintuitively, You're actually potentially right. An engine is usually most efficient at peak torque, which is pretty much peak power. So it takes less fuel to get from 0-60mph if you keep the engine at peak torque (assuming no wheel spin or clutch slip) than slowly accelerating. BUT assuming your journeys are the same distance, you spend longer at that higher speed, and for a non zero length cruise time, you use more fuel than if you had accelerated slowly, because you spend longer at a higher speed, and wind resistance gets higher with speed. BUT it turns out there is a most efficient cruise speed, and it's something like 45mph. Any slower or faster uses more fuel. So this only applies if the top speed is over 45mph... So accelerate up to
No, no, no the starter is "special" (bulshit)..
So true. Whenever I had to park at a truck stop for a whole weekend, I was sure to fuel up first. It's so embarrassing to run out when you're parked!
Very interesting! I was always skeptical about the actual benefits of these sorts of systems, as the cons of wear and tear seemed more tangible than the promise of fuel saving, so it's neat to get a real sense for how much fuel is really consumed or saved. With that said though, I still think this is a bandaid fix when it comes to the overall issue of car infrastructure being inherently less efficient and sustainable than public transit, when it comes to city commuting at least, which is where start-stop technology is targetted. I still think it has its niche, but car manufacturers and lawmakers really do need to be prioritizing sustainable transportation more. Just my stance on the matter
It's not about fuel saving, it's about emissions standards for manufacturers. You are not getting that Euro 6 rating for your engine unless you turn it off every time the car stops.
If you are in a lot of stop start traffic every day, a hybrid probably makes more sense. Pure electric in the stop start and engine on to recharge or in open long distance traffic
Public transportation is not automatically more efficient. It's only more efficient in very specific situations. If the train/bus is carrying a lot of passengers, then it is somewhat more efficient than a car. But if the train/bus has very few passengers, then it will be wildly inefficient compared to cars. I lived in Europe for years, and the trains/busses are often close to empty. The only time they get full is during the morning and evening rush hour. The rest of the day they're horribly inefficient because they're traveling the same routes on the same schedules, but only carrying a small handful of passengers. Cars have the benefit that they're only used when they are needed, they aren't running on a set schedule, so cars can often be more efficient.
@@SchemingGoldberg First off, I appreciate you for taking the time to consider how car infrastructure compares to public transit. I do implore you, however, to look into NotJustBikes here on CZcams, particularly his Strong Towns series videos on the economics of cars and his anecdotal videos. The videos can be fairly clickbait-y, but I encourage you to give his arguments some proper consideration.
In brief however: car dependency is, in actuality, expensive and unsustainable, inefficient and frustrating, and dangerous and stressful. Cars don't scale well leading to inevitable rush hour traffic, there's necessarily more expensive water and electricity infrastructure due to the lower density development, loss of life through poor safety and inherent human error, emissions and many other environmental concerns, increased social isolation, stress, noise and its impact on quality of life and productivity, etc etc etc
Can public transit be done poorly? Absolutely. Can car transit be done well? Given the associated death rates and death tolls alone, absolutely not. When considering all the other drawbacks, you'd need to be misinformed and/or a morally ambiguous investor.
With that said though, thank you for reading, and I do hope you can open your mind to the idea of doing away with car dependency. If I never have to sit through another 4 hours of bumper-to-bumper traffic, it'll be too soon.
My car tells me how much the start/stop has saved since i last reset my trip odo. I dont do a lot of around town driving and found that it only saved about 1/5th of a litre in 30-35L of driving. Would probably be significantly higher if i drove around town more but i would rather pay an extra $5-10 a tank just to not have start stop turned on
The rule of thumb my father taught me was actually 7 seconds so it's good to know he wasn't misleading me.
I don't usually stop my car any more though since I've had a few too many cases of old cars not starting again at a red light.
My car's generally pretty reliable for being 54 years old, once it's started and run for a bit, even after setting for a week or two or even longer, it does perfectly fine. There's nothing more satisfying than having an old car start turn-key like a modern car after pumping the gas pedal a few times. Especially now that I've had the electronic choke dialed in by someone who knows what they were doing with the carburetor and it's not stuck on constantly making the car run excessively rich and flooding itself all the time. Guy who put it on clearly rushed the job.
Probably cuz you used your starter motor 20× more than necessary
@@sgtpepper6379 Moreso the cars were just old. The one that gave us that problem was coming up on about 30 years old and it just didn't make sense financially to fix the issue.
@@ashen_dawn You can fix those issues easily on 80's cars, but 90's cars have fuel injection so that's a different story.
never stop my car on red light but since I watched this video I feel very comfortable turning it off whenever is an accident on the road and I get stuck in the traffic jam for several minutes or when im waiting for someone I just shut off the engine and roll down a little bit the windows
Rule #1 of Science: NEVER drink experiments
Kiraro The Kitsune but isn’t cooking a Science
What if you're a food scientist?
It's...it's not *always* drink experiments...? I think I might need some ipecac. Next you're going to tell me not to induce vomiting!
Rule #2 of Science: Unless it turns out to be an artificial sweetener.
@@theshadetreewelder3523Not, it's magick
Love your eval of this topic! Sitting in car using cell phone with engine on is a big thief of idling time….argh!
Well, that just completely changed my mind on start-stop systems.... holy moly
"I don't really care what you do" - love it
@Fawexx No correlation whatsoever.
"Stopping the engine when coming to a stop"
*Doesn't use clutch pedal when stopping*
*Engine stalls*
*Clutch savings*
*Fuel savings*
*Ka ching*
ez
Aaaand no brakes then you crash into car in front of you...
@@shahs.7910 It's better to save your brake pads for a real emergency!
Wait, do you really need to press the clutch in when braking?
@@danield8528 depends on how much your revs will drop, if you are going to stop then yes
Great information!!!
Did they account for the drain on the battery when starting the engine, which has to be replenished with an alternator running on fuel?
A civic takes less than 0.00025 gallons to charge the battery enough to start the engine. It's really negligible.
Nice video ¿it it posible to make another video explaining starter motor, batery and other components wear? that way is posible to figure out if overall is worth i to save fuel or saving startersand baterys use.
1:27 drank the Kool-Aid.
Start sniffing E85
That wasn't Kool-Aid. It was blinker fluid.
Pretty sure he's got a Crème de menthe addiction ;)
SicknessClips It wasn't blinker fluid. It was Clorox bleach.
Shoulda used watered down apple juice instead of the green fluid ... woulda freaked out more people.
Engineers think about adding a longer lasting starter, while auto companies need parts to break to make money. Somewhere in the middle you find the actual starter life.
Busi Xnesse overengineered obsolescence pog
Most stop start systems dont use the starter, they prime the cylinder and just ignite it to restart the engine.
Never mind starter life, how about engine life with start/stop systems?
@@EdmontonRails one thing is for certain: they will last less
@@EdmontonRails This is what I want to know....
My favorite is when they park at night with the xenon headlights on, idling, and texting for half an hour while I'm trying to enjoy some darkness.
This is a weird premise in general, I’ve never stopped to think if it takes gas or not to start an engine, I’ve never thought about stopping it. Why would I? It’s worth the money in gas to have the A/C and radio on at a stop light or if your just waiting for somone at a pick up or just chilling in your car for an hour. How much gas I’m using is never something that crosses my mind until I’m on the 1.5 hour interstate drive twice a week.
I the more northern regions, we would like to save fuel by turning the car off, but there is no guarantee that it will start up again.
yeah and you can save another fuel by just pushing the car, and be healthy too -- free exercise;)
Yup... if you turn it off while idling your car might turn into an ice cube.
My car in the winter hates me she don't like cold. I always apologize to her and I feel bad when I gotta use her in winter
How Long are you leaving it off? A couple minutes off with a restart would make no difference even at -40 C/F temperature.
Do you let your car idle overnight, so you don't have to start it in the morning?!? Get an engine block heater in that case!!
Buy old japanese, mercedes or volvo.
In England, the main purpose of stop/start systems is to get around our vehicle taxation, which is based on emissions test figures. The result of this is that a 2 litre BMW 3-seies with stop/start pays less tax than a 1 litre Toyota Aygo without it. The BMW owner will the disable the Stop/start system anyway because (1) it's irritating, and (2) "Eco-warriors" tend not to buy 3-Series beemers.
I think this is true no matter what country you live in!
@@fransoto8343
It's not almost like that, it's like that. Here in Germany a car that consumes less fuel in relation to the mass of the vehicle gets a better pollution badge than a car that actually consumes less fuel. So an big SUV weighting two tons is "more entvironmetally friendly" than a small car
A beemer is a bmw motorbike, a 3 series (BMW car )is a bimmer
get some stainless valves and exhaust system, vitrile fuel gaskets and run e85 then NO TAX, as water vapor is produced
Anton B his comment was sarcasm by the way. Just to let you know.
This is video I was looking for!! Probably you can save even more when red lights have very long phase like over a minute, depending on a country you live in.
I LOVE the fact that Subaru has its oil filter on the TOP of the engine bay. Talk about immensely convenient!
Not convenient when you have to change the spark plugs compared to most 4 cyl engines
you still have to go under for the drain plug, so I don't see why it makes that big of a difference... I usually just do both while I'm down there, and I can also prefill my filter a tad so its running dry as little time as possible after an oil change. I suppose with a top mounted filter you probably dont have much oil coming out when you loosen it so thats something of a benefit.
The fuel consumption is not what worries me. I'm worried about the unnecessary wear on my engine and components
My first thought too.
From idling or from repeated stop-starts?
The latter I guess, and if so, agree on.
Hot starts aren’t going to cause much engine wear. Your concern is unnecessary.
@@bf3and4highlights83 wont that 8 percent of saved money fuel be more than enough to replace the battery and have a bunch left?
@@bf3and4highlights83 The battery is being recharged when the engine is on, you know? Maybe turning the engine on and off multiple times in a few minutes doesn't really save money, but doing it when waiting at an occasional traffic light will very likely be benificial. Also why do you assume that starting an engine wears out any parts (apart from maybe battery, which isn't expensive)?
Wait... I'm an american! *drinks 'fuel'* lmao smart and entertaining good job man.
Next, it'll be tide pods or something...
I thought if it as drinking the koolaid lol
Maybe it's just because I've spent a lot of time in labs, but watching him drink that green liquid from the graduated cylinder while talking about gasoline made me feel physically ill.
Crushenator500 Yeah, it's funny to think about, but of course, it's almost certainly just colored water.
Josh Foster Definitely green apple sour puss
Awesome Video - I’ve been wanting to know how much fuel is consumed by my 1.5 liter Touata when its at Idle. And I got my answer from this video. .63 liter per hour🎉
I knew about that 7 sec rule, that's what was written in my BMW manual (who reads it?). So every time I see red light, I check counter and if it's less than 10 sec, I keep engine running... however, auto start/stop feature kills car battery way waster :) So I hardly believe I save any money with this feature :)
I remember having watched a video a while back mentioning that Mercedes claims its start-stop-system is effective at slightly
less than 1 second. As I live in Germany where most people still drive stick cars, this is about the time you need to press down the clutch pedal (you need to put your car in neutral and let go of the clutch pedal to engage the start-stop system). This would mean you save every time you use it.
I personally drive a Mazda. Back when I bought it I watched a couple of videos. They have some restrictions for the start-stop system to engage. 1) The engine needs to be warmed up 2) the battery needs to be at at least 80% 3) the A/C needs to run at a low setting. This all has to do with the fact that they stop the cylinders in perfect position to start up the engine mostly with ignition. That is also the reason why the engine is stopped for only small periods of time, so that it does not cool too much for this approach to work. I guess most manufacturers put a lot of thought into this to actually make it work and beneficial.
Fun fact: Mazda has a display how much you saved while using the start-stop system. According to the display in my car I stood still for over 600km by now 😉. Also, according to the display I’ve planted a couple of trees 🌳.
That's bs my friend, i'm sorry to say. Sure the cilinders are in the correct position. But there are parts of the car which have to be lubricated again and making the car start the whole process again while there are parts which are already warmed and lubbed. Sure, if you're owning a car at max like 10 years you wouldn't notice the effects, but only time will tell how much do these tings hold. Personally, I have it turned off, on my Focus ST-Line. The amount of fuel i save is so negligible that I prefer to have it turned off
We have a 2016 mazda 6 with a 2.5 L auto. The engine seems to disconnect from the trans. while at a stop
Whom can explain this ?
@@jeffmercier7252 : What do you mean by "The engine seems to disconnect from the trans"? At a stop, with the engine running, it _has_ to be disconnected from the transmission in _some_ way.
@@Milesco the engine revs down a lil then when I release the brake the engine seems to re engage to.the transmission is all I feel while driving
@@jeffmercier7252 : Unfortunately that explanation isn't enough for me to diagnose your problem -- if in fact it *_is_* a problem. It looks like you're going to have to bring it into a repair shop for an in-person analysis.