Re-Evaluating The Thirteenth Doctor
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- For a series that has run on for over 60 years as Doctor Who has, it's amount of hits and misses has wildly fluctuated over the years since it began airing in the 60's.
And while there's been some series' and Doctor's which have caused contention amongst the masses, none have really drawn the ire of fans than Jodie Whittaker's portrayal of the 13th Doctor written by Chris Chibnall, to the point people say Doctor Who "died" when it aired.
But is that really the case? Well, this video will seek to give a second opinion now that the 14th Doctor's specials are in the rear view mirror and that 15th's time is currently ongoing, as we Re-Evaluate The Thirteenth Doctor.
------------------------
Special Thanks to MysticGenesis, @agramuglia & @jazzyoliver5390 for their help voicing in this
------------------------
TIME STAMPS:
Intro: 0:00
What I Can't Defend: 2:14
Re-Evaluating 13 as a Doctor - 8:53
Re-Evaluating The Companions - 13:13
Re-Evaluating THAT Change - 19:25
Re-Evaluating Flux - 23:47
Re-Evaluating The Run As A Whole - 26:30
------------------------
HELP SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL CREATOR BELOW!
www.patreon.com/user?u=93892992
Twitter: @ChloeSunfloraVA - Krátké a kreslené filmy
A constant source of frustration for me during this era is how insanely talented everyone involved is. And, occasionally, it comes together in a way that really works. Mostly tho, it's a huge nutella and tomato sandwich. Whittaker is a chameleon, vanishing into her performance till all you can see is fhe character. Unfortunately, that means she can't bring the arch, charismatic energy to sell the flat scripts. Segun Akinola's music is unobtrusively beatiiful in a way that would really work for a quite, intimate, character drama. Cole is putting in a performance so subtly brilliant that most of the audience didn't even notice. Etc.
@@user-un9go4qe5i I disagree. Of course, quality is subjective, but I've really enjoyed a lot of the other work these people have produced. I just think that it was a lot of people in roles that don't suit them. Chibnall is a fountain of interesting ideas that he needs help actually implementing, and seemed disastrously unprepared for the job of show runner. But, he gave us season 1 of Broadchurch. Whittaker was miscast for, if not the Doctor in general, then at least the version that Chibnall was writing. But, she was really good in Attack the Block, Broadchurch, Black Mirror, Venus, ect. People were excited about her casting for a reason.
This makes so much sense tbh. I have always struggled to pinpoint exactly what was off during this era besides the tell-don’t-show style writing - which like you said may be a product of Chibnall’s ideas being poorly implemented/executed
I hope Jodie Whittaker comes back for a multi Doctor story at some point in the future. I’d also like to see Dhawan back but I’d understand if RTD wants a new master
Honestly, given how each new regeneration has had its own master to it (or two in the case of 8 with Roberts and the Dark Eyes Master), it would not surprise me if we get a new one.
But I agree, Dhawan has so much more potential as the master, it makes me excited for what they'll do in Big Finish with him given he has a boxset coming out soon
Moffat dropped immediately after series 5 and didn't start to see genuine recovery until series 8 just to peak series 10
I like all Moffat Series but 10 is so so underrated his character arc is complete he's now his best self by the end of the doctor falls. Also, Bill should have been 13's companion, that's my take or least let us have mor Bill Pots !
In fairness, it was RTD who destroyed Gallifrey first - I doubt he’ll bring it back.
At some point, I think he'll probably establish a small network of rogue timelords that survived but I doubt he will go to the trouble of bringing back Gallifrey.
yeah in the first episode of ncuti's run he makes it very clear, "They're gone Ruby. They're all gone". Seeing as how its a soft reboot, I feel like that was in the indication that it would stay that way for a while
And then we get the master tooth and Susan breadcrumbs. . .
Fair, maybe I'm just being a bit more hopeful because I kinda like the concept of other timelords other than The Master being around.
Plus, who doesn't wanna see Rassilon get bullied more?
@@ChloeSunfloraVA The Rani survived, I would bet.
Maybe I’m slightly biased but I only started watching doctor who on capaldi’s last series (before anyone attacks me, I have watched all of it now) and 13 is still in my top 3. Sure, the writing could’ve been better and some things did feel under developed but a lot of the fandom acts as if nothing was good about it. She has some really solid episodes that I still go back and rewatch just for entertainment. In comparison to a lot of shows, the writing wasn’t even that bad it’s just we’ve had RTD and Moffat who set the standard for nuwho VERY high. Hopefully in a few years it’ll get the respect it deserves and Jodie herself was an amazing actress.
Agree. I would definitely not describe myself as a fan of Thirteen's run, but I am a fan of Doctor Who, and there's some genuinely good Doctor Who in there.
I think the difference between The Cartmel Masterplan and The Timeless Child is that the former wanted to add more mystery to The Doctor & his character (with him being aware of what he was) but The Timeless Child basically takes away 1 mystery to replace it with another, with it being a reveal to The Doctor as well as the audience. It doesn’t add any mystery to the character as the character is just as in the dark as the audience is. That is why Andrew Cartmel doesn’t agree with The Timeless Child. Basically, it’s like changing the title from Doctor Who to Doctor What, because character wise it’s exactly the same. It’s like The Timeless Child is trying to overshadow the question of the show, Doctor Who?
Also, I have to disagree with the comparison with Trial of a Timelord & Flux. Trial at least has that epic speech in The Ultimate Foe which is arguably the defining moment for The 6th Doctor. 13 doesn’t get a scene like that. Also, while Flux feels rushed, it also feels extremely tedious. Survivors of the Flux is one of the most pointless & bland episodes of the entire show. Over a fifth of the episode is devoted to the hidden backstory of UNIT which is just pointless filler to give a weak reason for why the Sontarans invade (which they don’t even need a reason as to why they invade when they can just do it), The Grand Serpent is such a pointless & thrown character and Kate Stewart has literally nothing to do in Flux! She’s pointless in it (the only other guy in this rebellion of hers is 1 guy who gets killed by The Grand Serpent! I mean the episode kills The Doctor’s adopted mother…and I feel nothing.
Also, Correction: Grace isn’t Ryan’s mum. She’s Ryan’s grandmother
In the nicest way possible, yazteen was not out of nowhere, it was just badly set up. Its most prominent in episodes like Can You Hear Me and Diodati.
It kind of surprised me when they made it overt like "Where did this come from?" but then I rewatched a lot of earlier episodes and it was definitely there if you were looking for it.
@tmage23 yeah the issue is Chibnall's staff are horrid at foreshadowing in writing and its not as plain day, maybe if not probably, because they also made the relationship one sided by making 13 incredibly out of sync with the world she's a part of.
I noticed it as early as Arachnids in the UK with the Doctor having a fixation on Yaz and asking "are we?" when Yaz's mom asks if they're dating. So I really don't feel like it was out of nowhere, definitely could've been set up better, but 13 wanting to keep her distance initially makes sense given how many times she's had to do this and how poorly it went every time. I think it could've used more of a focus personally, but I feel the same way about a lot of the genuinely peak aspects of this run that weren't given the attention they needed
"Yazteen"
Lol, the ship's fans call it Thasmin, they'll get you for misnaming it haha
I always enjoyed 13's run and I think she didn't deserve some of her hate. I do understand some criticism though
I’ve been rewatching through 13’s era and her character has landed much more nuanced and interesting to me in revisit, as have the companions, particularly Ryan.
Ryan as a character and his dynamic with 13 is, like so much of the Chibnall era, understated. But if you’re paying attention to him/them, I think it’s really compelling, to the point that if I had to keep just one companion from the era it’d probably be him.
Honestly, as much as I liked three companions at once, I'd say in this regard if Ryan and Graham were the companions for Series 11 and 12 and Yaz swapped over for them in 12/Revolution and through Flux to the Centenary specials, that would be optimal imo
I know very little about Doctor Who, but this was all very interesting honestly! I'm also happy I got to continue my role as that person my video essayist friends get when they need a screamy voice XD
I do wonder if Jodie Whittaker is simply miscast as the Doctor. That's not to say she's a bad actress, but I think the fact that people always have to point to other projects to say that she is a good actress, actually, is a sign of poor casting. For instance, the TV movie has no shortage of writing issues, arguably to a much greater extent than the Chibnall era, but Paul McGann is so perfect for the role that he totally shines through, with a fraction of Whittaker's screentime. Furthermore, Jo Martin as the Fugitive Doctor blows Whittaker off the screen to such an extent that I'm always thinking why isn't SHE playing the Doctor? And again, with barely any screentime.
I think what happened is Chris Chibnall and Jodie Whittaker had worked together and gotten along so well that he wanted her to play his Doctor without putting enough thought into whether or not she would be well suited for the part.
100%. I've honestly had this thought since that initial 1 minute Jodie Whittaker reveal clip back in like 2017 where she took the hood off, ik that sounds lowkey unhinged but it's true😭
The reason I hated 13s run so much is it just felt so, milk toast liberal. Doctor who has always been a very progressive show so by comparison thirteens run was jarringly conservative. I agree that six’s run was probably worse and an excited for Jodie to hopefully get redeemed if she comes on to do big finish the way Colin did. I’m not in love the the idea of the doctor as a woman, not for the reason chuds do but for the reason Peter Davidson put it that the doctor represents one of the few examples of healthy masculinity. Of a man that uses his words instead of violence and is kind and compassionate, and in the case of ncuti gatwa’s doctor which I have been LOVING wears his emotions on his sleeve and cries freely. I wouldn’t say I’m against the idea of the idea of the doctor being a woman but I would say that example of healthy masculinity in media is quite important. I don’t think chibnal era was all bad. I really enjoyed two of the three dalek specials and I think there were some real gems in season 12 and I enjoyed a lot of flux. Over all I’m still very negative on the chibnal era however I do like that the fandom is reevaluating it and people are finally coming to their own conclusions instead of just regurgitating the popular opinion.
If milk toast liberal is another way of saying centrist or libertarian, then I agree.
i liked your point about healthy masculinity a lot, matt smith was a really great role model for me as a kid as someone passionate, emotional and bravely smart. I do think ncuti cries a bit too much though lol, i'm all for the emotional vulnerability but i feel like they lean too much into it. I think something that helps that scene is if maybe ncuti's doctor was crying because he was thinking about the possibility that an entire planet was about to blow up because of him. i really liked the adrenaline scenes where he's trying to calm down though. tangent over.
I must admit, I don't feel I need to do much re-evaluation when it comes to Jodie's Doctor. Despite some slight wobbles with a story here and there, I was quite favorably impressed with that era (just as I was with Capaldi's), and those which I have seen again, have only reconfirmed that impression.
From what I HAVE seen (and this applies to the most recent version of the Doctor as well), the problem is of long standing... going back, in fact, to the Troughton era. There are simply those who don't like genuine *change* -- not just with the lead actor, but a change in direction, in approaches to storytelling, in political outlook (and let's be real, here; THAT has been a part of Doctor Who since its inception in 1963) -- and are going to find fault no matter *where* the program goes. Over time, as the new ideas/approach becomes more familiar, most of these objections fade into the background, and the actual *worth* of whatever particular era it may be, is given a more objective evaluation... and generally that ends up with a serious rise in opinion.
The irony is, that the ones who so loudly complain originally, are also the ones who complain when a program *doesn't* change much, as they become bored with it, and feel it has run its course, that it has nothing more to offer. And, if a program (or literary series) *doesn't* allow itself to grow, then they are right: it is an embalmed corpse, and not a living artistic creation which retains any worth or applicability. It's a fossil. Doctor Who has seldom chosen that way for long.
Readjusting to a favorite character who undergoes such radical changes may not be all that easy, or that comfortable (particularly for those who have trouble seeing such as a necessary part of life, even when seen through the lens of a popular medium such as a fantastic adventure series. But withyout it, such only becomes a bit of curiosa... and that Doctor Who has never been content with being.
I don't yet know exactly what to think about Ncuti Gatwa's era, as I've had almost no chance to see any of it as yet (due to a series of personal circumstances); but what I have seen, has me inclined to think they are continuing a long-standing tradition of challenging the viewers preconceptions, and that is a healthy thing. There are likely to be some wobbles, as there have been with *every* version of the Doctor... but there's likely to be a hell of a lot of gold in there, too, for those open enough to perceive it.
As I've said elsewhere, my favorite (if I must pick one) is probably Troughton, though it's a near thing, and for rather unusual reasons. Next I would put Hartnell and Capaldi, pretty much on the same level. And Whitaker's era falls only a hair or so behind these, in my personal list. The rest, from Pertwee on, are not *quite* on that level, but there isn't a one I do not have an extremely high regard for... even if my initial impression of a couple were not so high... it is just that I had to get used to the new characterization... and then I found the threads of continuity in the character, and began to pick up on all the unique qualities of each era in its own right.
But, then again, I already had an example of such a variety of shifts by encountering the work of Michael Moorcock, and having my preconceptions of THAT frequently bowled over... an experience (or set of experiences) I most certainly do NOT regret....
Got to remember though that, sure, the show has always changed. However, let’s be real here. Not all change is good. Brexit ? I hear a lot of Who fans going on about change yet when you dig deeper, it always ends up equating to “Yeah change. But only if it suits my own agenda “.
@@DorisDay-lw4xs Using Brexit as an analogy seems a rather bad choice (or perhaps I'm missing something) for comparison with the creative decisions of a television program. However that may be, no, not all change is good, nor is all change bad. But without change, any artistic medium -- visual or otherwise -- becomes stale, repetitive, and moribund. We've seen that over and ovfer again. My favorite "whipping boy" on this one is what happened to the Gothic novels (and shorter works) of the late 18th-early 19th centuries. These were, originally, quite an innovative blending of the novel of sentiment, the traditional ghost story, the influence of the Arabian Nights (via Galland's version and its English counterparts, and the fairy tale... spiced with a certain uneasy rebellion against the mortmain of the political order(s) of both times... and the Schauerromantik imported from Germany. The best of these still have much to offer. But... as the popularity grew, people tended to want "more of the same"... and that's what they got; ending in an incestuous mess which was so feeble that the "typical" tale of the sort was finally fit only as parody.
Nevertheless, there were innovators of the form even then, and as has been demonstrated by a number of anthologies showing the growth and/or influence of the Gothic on weird literature since, can still be seen in some of the best weird writing to this day. But it took that innovation to give any aspects of the Gothic any claim to continued relevance. The same is true here.
I mentioned Moorcock as an analogy earlier. I don't agree with all he has to say, or even the way he may choose to say it... but it is the very fact he has continued to broaden his techniques as well as his pallette, which has made his work viable. Ditto for so many other of my favorite writers. I don't have to agree with them; but I do have to come away from the work with the impression that what they do is done "with clean hands and composure". Which is why I include in that disparate group (and this is only the writers in the fantastic, let alone general literature): Harlan Ellison, Robert A. Heinlein, James Branch Cabell, J R. R. Tolkien, H. P. Lovecraft, Joanna Russ, W. H. Pugmire, Isaac Asimov, etc. I think it is as important to have my own "core values" challenged (as long as it is done intelligently and with much forethought) as it is to agree with me. If my views are threatened, then they need to be *very* carefully examined. If not, then at the very least I can refine and hone them due to the experience. Again, that is what I see with Doctor Who. Not everything I like; some I dislike quite a lot... but not a jot of it would I be without, as I have found much that is valuable even in those I dislike the most. Call it a tonic, if you will.
My "agenda", then, is whether or not a piece is well or ill proportioned; intelligent; innovative (even when referring back to traditional tropes or ideas); done honestly and thoughtfully; and has the air about it of *conviction* (as in commitment to present it to the best of their professional ability) of those connected with it. If it sparks debate about an issue, -- and as long as that debate is also carried out honestly and on genuine critical grounds, as opposed to (as is so often the case with anything which has a large fan base) a form of near knee-jerk reactionaryism against the unfamiliar or different... that is, addressing the work in and of itself rather than because of some social or political bias... then well and good. It means it is not simply a bit of fluff removed from life, but something which actually brings a fair amount of verisimiitude (based on the views and/or life experiences of those involved) to even the most outrageous of fables (to refer back to Moorcock's phrase about his Eternal War metaphor). To insist they leave these behind is to cripple any genuine creativity, and make it, like the Gothics mentioned above, incestuous, moribund, and downright lacking in any value greater than candy floss.
I am one of the haters of the Timeless Child and what happened to the Time Lords. I do think that sitting with it for a while helps, and the fact that Fluxx was actually quite good. - I think my biggest complaint about these plot twists is not that they happened. It's how rushed they felt. I mean Cyber-Time Lords should have been a frightening big bad. Instead we saw them and destroyed them in like 3 minutes. A little more depth on why this affected the Master so deeply could have been explored. It felt like Chibnall took a giant dump on 60 years of history for shock value and just left the mess for someone else to clean up. This could have been amazing if the story was allowed to develop more.
Flux, Cyber time lords, and timeless child all feel like really big ideas that Chibnall just did not make work together in the story, and ended up having consequences like you said on the impact of some of these parts of his story
Watching this era again, it's the least woke of the entire new series.
She is the most cowardly, conformist of all the Doctors. We never see this Doctor change things or challenge anything.
Yes, but you see... woke is when woman.
Im excited to have found your channel. The 13th doctor is actually my favorite for many reasons but admittedly the stories were lacking. The writing had so many great ideas, maybe too many, but they were messy in the end.
I do agree with your intire video. Great job and ill be watching more.
So many great ideas like kerblam being pro capitalism "it's not the system that's broken"
@@prettyoriginalnameprettyor7506 Chibnall was such a centrist that is hilarious how many people criticized it for being "woke".
One of my biggest gripes with 13s run is the companions, I’ll be honest with the exception of Graham I wasn’t a fan of the original trio. Dan was a nice addition tho. I also felt like the dialogue was very on the nose in its messaging… like, it felt like I was watching an educational show for children
It should have been just the Doctor and Graham. Ryan was hopeless and Yaz wasn’t that much better. I always forget Dan. Graham though was brilliant. Jodie and Bradley were a winning combination. I actually wish Grace had lived and joined the TARDIS. Imagine the Doctor travelling around with a middle-aged couple 😊. That would have worked.
Agree with a lot of this. On the subject of the Timeless Child stuff, I don't think it's fundamentally a bad or irredeemable idea, a lot of my personal frustration with it is that it seemed to just be a shock thing that then nothing was done with. They clearly tried to do a "yeah maybe I'm a god but I didn't know that and all my actions are those of an ordinary person trying to do good" but it just came across as "SURPRISE. Anyway....", which feels at best cheap.
I have some hope that we'll be extracting some good stories / character stuff out of it in the current series 40/14/1.
mfer really called sacha dawhan the “best modern iteration of the master” 💀💀
He is tho! Along with Gomez.
@@brucebatmanwayne3654 And Derek Jacobi. He didn't get much time to shine in the show proper, but the War Master Big Finish Audios are insanely good.
I did say ARGUABLY the best modern iteration of the Master, which is stiff competition given that Missy and the Dark Eyes Master are very bloody good!
@@chrisclark7285 very true!!! Jacobi fucks hard!!!
@@ChloeSunfloraVA HOW DID I FORGET MCQUEEN OMG I LOVE HIM HES SO GOOD AGAINST MCGANN
You're defence of the timeless child is a bit confusing to me. I get the aspect of previous lives being hinted before, then again the movie said he was half human yet we didn't run with that. But you bring up previous examples of the Doctor being special but it doesn't really work because most people hate what you mentioned as well, most people seem glad that stuff didn't happen in the 7th doctor's era. And just because it was a plan before doesn't make it okay imo.
Are we really counting Tennant as the 10th and 14th doctor? It still feels weird lol to think Matt Smith was 4 doctors away from present
Matt Smith's run ended more than 10 years ago now
@@josiahgoodman8875 yeah, I know, no need to make me feel old
I’m the weirdo who has Jodie as my favourite of the modern Doctors. 😊
me too
I love Jodie, but I would have preferred better writing
@@lillimarq loved the writing as well as the actress. loved everything!
@@robtymec2045 I am truly grateful for yourself. After Broadchurch I was expecting something better and less imo clunky. And I really wanted to love it, for Jodie and Chibnall's writing in Broadchurch but for the most part things didn't fully gel for me at the time.
@@lillimarq give it a re-watch. I bet it will gel better
The idea that the Doctor would sit in prison until somebody (some man) came to rescue her made me sick. Look, put the Doctor in prison and in a week she will have organized the prisoners. In two weeks she will have organized the guards. In the third week she's be sitting behind the wardens desk. But a helpless prisoner? FEH! Never. Bad concept/bad writing.
I'd like to think that she would have done all that and gotten out on her own if Jack hadn't shown up. But I agree that the way you described it would have been better for her character.
I was always on board with the timeless child.
It really gives a purpose and reason for the doctor to be different from the other time Lords who all seem to be fairly evil.
And the doctor actually being this child who could regenerate infinitely but now capped and used by them to become eternal the selves. The. When the Doctor leaves gallifrey dominoes start falling to the demise of their civilization.
And it would make sense that the doctor being this otherly being always has a sense of wander and wonder about them that would push for them to run away like they did.
And then of course all of the fugitive doctor things was just 🤌
"Say what we will about Moffat at least he had a good start."
I'd disagree. The Eleventh Hour was a good first episode, the entire rest of 11s first season was a slog to get through and felt tedious. I think with Moffat as Showrunner, he's great in spurs or singular moments, but as a singular ongoing narrative he's bad at, and I unfortunately found 11 one of The Doctors that frustrated me the most, Matt Smith is amazing but he was dragged down by Moffat's writing. The same was happening with Capaldi until Clara died and then things truly picked up and we got some masterful storytelling, and then when Moffat had one season to tell a story with The Doctor and Bill it was AMAZING. That told me that Moffat is at his best when he isn't trying to extend a series and instead has one singular narrative he has to end, whether it's a single episode or a single season, Moffat is usually at his best at those points. But as a showrunner, no. I never really felt Moffat get a consistent period of 'good' till the middle of Capaldi's next to Final Season. Otherwise it was some good moments and a lot of moments that dragged.
Nothing is as horrible as the majority of the 5th Doctor's run however. And I liked more of 13s era than I disliked, the majority of the first season, some of the second season, and near all of Flux I loved. With Moffat it was less that I liked "seasons"(bar 12s final season) and more liked.. particular episodes during that season and wanted to forget the others. Just my two cents though!
I agree with your indefensibles. Thasmin and Captain Jack were acts of desperation by production, is my guess. Best Master , tho? No, gurl. NO. And the Timeless Child is crap. It's the main reason I can't engage properly with the current series. Flux is also a huge mess. It had the same effect as the Trial of a Time Lord. 13's era is definitely the worst, IMO. To me, it felt like any time it could go wrong, it did. Your video is very well done tho. Kudos!
I'm glad we can agree to disagree on some points and you enjoyed the video regardless! 💖
Being a lifelong fan, I never had much beef with jodie Being the doctor , covid didn't do her any favors in her run as the doctor tho.
I liked Jodie a lot. It was an attempt at serious sci-fi drama.It looked good and was not "silly". Despite its flaws I mostly enjoyed it. It felt like proper Doctor Who to me. I hope Chibnall writes another episode.
i was fine with captain jack returning, but that is mostly because i never got around to watching torchwood, this certainly gives me a new perspective on things
Honestly, Torchwood is very much a good standalone series as it is a companion series to RTD Era who.
It's also a big reminder as to why Jack should never come back because his tragic ending in it is beautiful
Yes, fair comments. My most consistent reaction to watching 13th Doctor episodes was disappointment. There were some good ideas, but so rarely did they do justice to them. All too often it came across as writers who didn't understand science fiction coming up with stories with the surface trappings of sci-fi but without any internal logic. The hit-to-miss ratio was the worst of NuWho, and for me there was an absence of the occasional truly great episode that we got in previous eras. I never quite clicked with Jodie's Doctor, and I found the companions mostly bland. The rationale for them continuing to travel with her after the hugely traumatic first two episodes seemed weak to me, as if the writers simply thought "the Doctor always has companions, and she's so *amazing* that the first three people she randomly encounters will be so smitten with her they'll follow her around like lost puppies'. Overall I agree with your assessment. My least favourite NuWho Doctor, but not my least favourite ever.
In the moment, it was a sad time, but at some point during Flux, I found a way to enjoy it, and it all changed for me. Then Power of the Dr came out and while it wasn't great structurally, it was a fun end.
Now looking back on it, I smile so much because it was a blip of time with experiments, people having genuine fun acting the parts, and 13 being quirky in a way I find endearing (most of the time). It is now a part of Doctor Who, not just the way things are forever.
RTD is back to show that things can turn around, so I love that I can enjoy 13's era without feeling bad about the future.
Part of my dislike may have been comparing to past Eras. But collecting more as the show goes, I can enjoy all of them in their own ways. So I try to keep an open mind.
Great overView
Do not ever call the main villain of a series, especially one who embeds his victims teeth into his own flesh "Tim Shaw" because his real name is difficult to say.
lol wut how is this even a real criticism lmaoo
The female fandom warned for years that the first female Doctor must never be handled by a male showrunner, the BBC didn't listen, and we all suffered for it. Jodie Whittaker excels at playing characters that could only be women, parts that are firmly rooted in uniquely female experience. Yet Chibnall admitted in an interview that he never told any of his writers she had got the part, so they all wrote for a man, leaving Jodie floundering with nothing to work with in the scripts because the part clearly wasn't female. It was a typical "man with tits" that gets written whenever male writers try to come up with "strong female characters".
Andrew Cartmell later came out and said that the "masterplan" was always a bad idea that undermined the Doctor's "ordinary upstanding person" foundation and should never have been done.
Between that and handing the run of the whole show over to one of the most consistently poor writers for DW and TW, this entire run never stood a chance, imo
I love the pting 😭
im sorry but while i will admit i could see jodie as being a good doctor in that shes a good actress with good energy and ability i do not agree that she was ever going to get the chance. not because of the fans, whovians are used to hating the new doctor then getting to like him as they get over the disppointment of losing the previous one( yes we mourn them). she had no chance because she was written by people who didnt understand the doctor, didnt seem to have watched the doctor previously and were more interested in changing him and making statements than in improving the show. it felt like theyd been given a checklist and just wrote her to fit in to what information theyd been given. they got told the doctor was kooky and a little bit mad and they wrote that as the entirety of her charachter without adding any depth, for example they stole her outfit from mork of ork because whos a more kooky alien than robin williams? they made her jump around like shes on speed, she had zero serious moments unless she jumped directly from mental to angry in short jodie never had a chance because she had nothing to work with. on top of that they completely rewrote doctor who canon which was never going todo anything but pizz folks off. and they tried to make out the gay thing was something new to the doctor. and made it an important part of her, there was always flirting between the doctor and jack and hes checked out guys before. the whole show was turned into how to make statements and it destroyed the story telling. i wanted a female doctor and have for years but when it finally happened they gave chibnal permission to destroy it and now theyre doubling down with gatwa. if we get another doctor after this ill be very surprised and sad if we dont
I have some disagreements on the first part if only because I think Chibnall has plenty of solid episodes and honestly, I don't mind Gallifrey being destroyed again since the Time Lords that aren't the Doctor, The Master, etc. are not interesting to explore other than they're dicks. And I seriously don't mind them written as scumbags given The Timeless Child thing. But destroying them I'm okay with.
But a lot of things I agree with re evaluating the 13th Doctor considering she's my favorite Doctor. I like your nuanced take with the praises on the character. I like that she's all over the place, it's in character for The Doctor.
So even with disagreements, I like your presentation and nuance on the run. I love the Whittaker run more than most and I love that you made an entire video reevaluating her and I still praise The Timeless Child. I feel it brought back the mystery to the Doctor.
First of all, sorry I said she may be "nobodies favourite doctor" in the video then, you are proving that statement hella wrong and I love it!
Second, I will give Chibnall is flowers on some episodes, the ones I highlighted near the end being the ones I feel do work to a degree, I just think in general the smaller bits built up more over time against him for me personally.
I do agree that TC did bring back some added mystery to the Doctor, something of which Cartmell's plan was to do in a similar vein, I just think that destroying Gallifrey alongside it after all that had been redone to bring it back was a mis-step at best 😅
@ChloeSunfloraVA We can agree to disagree on Gallifrey but at least we see eye to eye on the Timeless Child and the 13th Doctor. Really do appreciate the reply!
But regarding why she's my favorite, she's very autistic coded than most Doctors that between that and me being genderfluid, I felt a bit seen. In a lot of ways, I resonate with her.
I didn’t like RTD’s initial run outside of season 4, and 9 as a character (not his season just 9 himself)
I adored half of Moffat’s era, and hate the other
None of the show runners are perfect, and even if chibnall is worse, I think him getting the amount of shit he does is a little unfair.
Dude, she is the 14th doctor, not 13. Everyone seems to forget John Hurt's War Doctor who is actually the real 9th doctor
People remember, but the official number has him as like...8.5 due to how that worked.
Unless the BBC starts calling Ncuti the 16th Doctor, Jodie is 13. 🤷♀️
@ChloeSunfloraVA I understand, but she is still 14. Also Tennant is 10 and 14.5. Or we can say he is 15 as is the new doctor who is also 15 because of the bigeneration. But I do understand your point. Great video
Because of the timeless child reveal it's not like we can accurately rank them anyway anymore and that's not even necessarily a bad thing. Also even just going by mainline doctors, 10 metacrisis anyone? Jodie is technically the 15th.
@@Mooglatan point taken. I completely forgot about the timeless child. The modern incarnation of the doctor could be the 200th incarnation for all we know
Thumbs up too for bringing back historicals/pseudo historicals
I loved the 13th Doctor and thought she was much more traditional than most. They were unlucky that their time coincided with covid because Jodie deserved more stories. The two main mistakes of the era were this: 1) Too many companions - even in the classic era, 3 companions only ever worked once (Ian, Barbara & Vicki). as Jodie and Mandip had such great chemistry and Graham is such a great character, i would remove Ryan. 2) The relationship between 13 and Yaz was clearly not planned but was rushed in the few episodes they had left when fans started shipping them. It would have been better to either plan it from the off or not bother at all. David Tennant was brilliant as 10 but just played a caricature of 10 as so called 14. Ncuti is hopelessly miscast and I just wish Jodie had regenerated into Jo Martin whose Doctor had far more gravitas than the current berk.The writing of RTD since his return has been terrible and yet this is the man who wrote a masterpiece like Midnight.
That's certainly a unique combination of takes.
Lmao this video was always going to be made by someone… it’s almost like history repeats itself
NO WAY you just called SpyMaster the best, at most he's fine & miscasted for Jodies Doctor at worst he's a cringelord who can't hold a candle to how well Missy was & her arc being undone is unacceptable.
Sorry but Jon Simm is more cringe.
I said "arguably ONE OF the best modern incarnations", Missy and the Dark Eyes Master are ones that fight for that spot a fair bit
I’m probably like one of the only 13 fans in the comments here and honestly I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. To me it seems that much of the criticisms for the era are misinterpretation, and arguably that is partially the fault of the series and crew, but I’d also say a lot of it is to do with fandom culture refusing to like new stuff. There are definitely moments in the era that stink (orphan 55) but there’s actually a lot of greatness in the era, much of which you mentioned.
I would say however, the Thasmin storyline isn’t queerbait because it is canon. Alongside that, I’ve seen many sapphics really emotionally connect to that story and relate to it alot, so I would argue it’s underrated. But even subjectively, I really enjoyed that arc
Actually Jodie is my3rd favorite doctor cause i never found the era as bad as the hate mongers still want us to believe it was cause it still was a successful era even though u may not know it cause of how loudly the hate mongers are metaphorically shouting about how terrible it was for one reason or another and I really like that at least the first season had a classic era vibe to it cause of chibnall being a fan of the classic era with the clip of him from he talk show he was on in the 80’s being used by the haters to say why he shouldn’t be the showrunner granted some things did go unexplained but that happens quite a bit in the show
I really feel like this is what we're going to experience with the 15th doctor as well.
Graham's wife and Ryan's grandmother tho?
Okay so... I like Yaz and The Doctor. Quite a bit. And I don't think it's "queer baiting".
First of, they *are* queer, they express their feelings for one another as well as why a relationship would be difficult for The Doctor, but they decide to enjoy what they have while they have it. It makes a lot of sense that The Doctor wouldn't pursue a relationship at this point because as you mentioned, she's tired. It makes sense that Yaz would take so long to see The Doctor as someone she *could* date, because The Doctor's been so distant and secretive (because she's tired). I think it's great, in a tragic way, that just as they felt like giving it a try, their time together was cut short before their relationship could really get started. I like that as a story and I don't think it's fair to boil it down to "queer baiting" when the same story about a straight pairing would simply be regarded as a tragedy.
Besides, The Doctor has already been pretty clearly queer in the past and it's continuing to be a thing with future Doctors so I really don't see the problem here
I honestly loved the 13th Doctor's era. It was different, hopeful, looked amazing, and had normal people for companions.
The music and theme were amazing, and it brought the mystery back. My favourite era
I wasn't a fan of the Timeless child. the simple reason was i felt they wanted to erase what went before it plus canon wise so many plotholes . To me, chibnal never had respect for the long-term fans and others. The reason that the person who originally created the idea wasn't a fan, but he ignored his wishes and went for it anyway. Flux, i liked the idea, and a few episodes were strong, but the ending disappointed me. But i do feel sorry for the people who did like the Timeless Child, and he never followed through with it. I still say the child in her last episode was gonna be the doctor, and it would have turned out the master was the reason why the doctor got abandoned and found by the timelords. What i would have done differently is make Jo Doctor an incarnation between 2 and 3, which would have made sense and made the Master the Timeless Child. Cos looking back at the masters history, he came back from the dead twice, and to me, I've always felt there's more to him being something else.
Honestly, in a perfect world, it would make sense with the line "You did this to me, all my life, you made me" from End of Time, would have been prophetic with The Master in all honesty.
The Timeless Child isn't a bad concept, it makes sense for the Time Lords to be assholes... But imo it really does ruin the character of the Doctor. I just wish they made The Master the TC. It'd make far more sense, would explain how he keeps coming back.
More importantly it doesn't devalue the 50th anniversary, 11s regeneration, heaven sent/hell bent. It wasn't accepted during 7 btw. The show actually was cancelled not long after that.
I'm not sure exactly how far I got into 13's run. I know I saw up to timeless child... and I think I watched a few after that. I just got so bored honestly. Never angry at it, just bored. Maybe I should go back and watch flux at least.
About 3 minutes into the video, I had the thought “Thirteen reminds me of Five, possibly my least-favorite Classic Doctor: both suffer from having very vaguely defined personalities and motivations, and frequently being bland and forgettable in a room full of scenery-chewers. And when they _do_ have a strong opinion or quirky response, they feel very inconsistently written-it’s whatever strong opinion the story needs, rather than what makes the most sense for this version of the Doctor. But Five isn’t anywhere near my least-favorite era of Classic Who, because of the stories. Not all of them, of course, but enough were good, and several of the GOATs were in seasons 19-21. And while 3 companions was a writing/story problem for Series 11-13, during seasons 18-20 the stories were typically twice as long, giving more time to give everyone something to do. The extra companions sometimes even made the stories _better,_ making the sometimes-painful padding of many Classic Who stories (particularly Pertwee’s) less obvious, or even eliminating it.
Which, BTW, gets to which _is_ my least-favorite Doctor’s era of Classic Who: Pertwee. While Three was generally engaging and often fun, the _stories_ from seasons 8-11 are just….
Well, most of them have some good bits , but they’re too few and far between. Season 7 is an interesting change, but most of the stories are at least 2 episodes too long, and making the Doctor Earth-bound makes it hard to do the stories I most love: meeting weird alien societies and exploring fascinating strange worlds. Seasons 8-11 got increasingly repetitive and predictable and padded. A 27-minute chase that ends with the pursued and pursuer both back exactly where they started and then the pursued gets away and the pursuer doesn’t even know about the secret macguffin that just got away with them‽ In a series with 25-minute episodes‽‽ Yes, you can literally skip an entire episode of _Planet of the Spiders_ and it won’t make any difference on the story. If that’s the alternative, I’ll take running down suspiciously short corridors every time!”
And then I get to about 27:38 and you bring up a very similar comparison between Whittaker’s era and Pertwee’s era!
Thirteen unfortunately has the milquetoast personality of Five without enough great stories, the poor stories of Three without the engaging lead, and the too-many-companions of Seasons 18-20 without the longer stories to use them in.
This is honestly the best comparison I've ever seen for Whittaker's run, she got the worst parts of two doctors and that was part of her downfall tbh
Screw the haters, the 13th Doctor run is better on average than any of the Moffat era. I don't love the Timeless Child reveal, but I do like the Master and the Fugitive Doctor a whole lot. Jodie Whittaker is definitely not off-character, she is the one actor to play the Doctor as... you know, a person doing things, instead of an omnipotent self-congratulating angsty God. Flux is the best season-wide arc of Who since RTD left and, honestly, given the first couple of episodes of the RTD return I'd say we're trading down in terms of how low the lows go.
Also, Graham is the best companion in NuWho. I didn't know I could find an old white English guy so endearing and interesting, but man, any time Bradley Walsh showed any vulnerability I was just along for the ride.
Look, I dislike Moffat's run more than most, I get that, but even if I didn't, I just didn't see the outrage at the time and revisiting the run I am even more positive about it.
That's some cope you got there.
@@TheOtakuKat I mean... not really. There's nothing to cope *with*.
That era came and went. I have it on BluRay. I genuinely don't need or care whether you like it, I do. But also, when it comes up in conversation I'll tell you I liked it. There's dozens of us and we'll raise our voices to a reasonably moderate volume.
@@mademedothis424 So why do you feel the need to dick measure if your so secure because aggressively comparing and dunking on other eras looks quite the opposite.
I have a bucketfull of criticisms for the Yasmin Kahn queerbait but *"they suddenly made her gay at the last minute out of nowhere"* is not one of them. The point of bait is that it is hinted at, implied, forever tantalisingly obscured, and then never properly dealt with... which is exactly whjat they did with yas. Her queerness was only finally made *explicit* at the last possible moment out of nowhere and they did nothing with it... true and fair. That said, I refuse to gloss over the queer subtext that was right there from the first episode. Fans weren't 'reading too much into' stuff that wasn't there. The subtext was intentional from the conception of the character and chibbers never intended to do anything but dance around it. That's why it was bait.
I'm sorry, you call what's his face the best modern Master when Missy exists? You lost me there.
Arguably, yes. Missy and the Dark Eyes Master make for good competition however.
@@ChloeSunfloraVA Oh I do like Sacha Dewan's Master alright (even if I hope he's a previous iteration and not all of Missy's character development is gone) but Michelle Gomez was just so glorious that up to now she's definitely my favourite.
Graham was the best part of 13th run I didn’t like yas or Ryan much and 13 was hit or miss constantly and the woke stuff made it exhausting to watch but graham always had good moments and acting
Jodie was never the problem, she sadly just got stuck with a writer who rarely gave her good material. The Jo Doctor was fantastic and I kept wishing 13 would get the same consistent level of material.
Ma'am that quick text you flashed on screen regarding Yaz being a cop. I know you don't think so, that was incredibly racist. I can probably with a 90% accuracy predict your opinions on most topics based on that alone.
Holy shit
a fellow trans media analyst specialising in animation?? I love you
nevermind, you chatted shit on pertwee, good moment lost 😔(/j)
I like SOME of Pertwee's run, but gun to my head you have me name my least favorite doctors he'll be in that list because his stories personally aren't ones I revisit much, if at all. 😅
That being said, I am glad to be another trans media essayist, we need more of 'em 😏
@@ChloeSunfloraVA yeah that's fair lol, I only have a soft spot for him 'cause he was the first I watched.
And yes, there definitely needs to be more of us
For me there isn't a "Jodie *is* the Doctor". Felt like a person playing the Doctor off the vague memory of them. It was like "yeaaaaah the Doctor has friends so likes put 3! They also hate guns!! And and she weird." Sure the Doctor can be that but there was no depth to it. But i do really like Kablam! The company is super interesting to me and i actually want to see the company to come back for sure. A whole planet is the company is so interesting and u could have done so much with it writing wise and desgn wise like we only see a still garden
I thought the scene where Graham tries to discuss his cancer with her, then her reaction which verged on panic, was very Doctorish. Otherwise, her sense of fun and flinging herself into adventures was what were her defining characteristics to me.
This is such a shame!
I still like the idea of having a female doctor!
I want MORE female doctors!
We only have two!🤧
Anyway! Speaking of Yaz and The Doctor!🤷♀️
I'm pretty sure that is a relationship of friendship!😂
I agree! I hope IF RTD stays after Ncuti, we get another female doctor to the line up, if only just to see what happens underneath a different (and better) writer!
@@drwhoman2010 the doctor doesn't have to be female. They don't have to be male either. An alien that can regenerate every cell in their body doesn't have to be anything.
But there's been loads of male doctors and only two female ones. It would be nice to have a woman doctor written well.
@@drwhoman2010 but why does the doctor HAVE to be male? What is it about a female doctor that bothers you so much? An essential, unchanging gender doesn't really make sense with regeneration, so then it becomes a matter of balance. Most doctors have been male so why not have more female doctors? Bringing back Romana would be great. Could be a male or female Romana. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Time lords aren't human. They can regenerate. As a result they can regenerate as any race or gender. Makes sense to me.
@@drwhoman2010 nothing bothers me about having a male doctor. It didn't bother me in classic who. It didn't bother me with David Tennant, Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi. And it doesn't bother me with Ncuti now.
Don't try and twist it around. YOU are the one complaining about the hypothetical idea of more female doctors. My answer to that is "why not? We've had loads of male doctors. Why not have more female ones?" I wouldn't really mind if we only ever got male doctors in the future. It'd be a bit of a shame but it wouldn't bother me too much.
I just don't understand why you're so determined the doctor should always be male. It's a sci-fi show about an alien who can change their entire appearance, who travels in time and space so that any kind of story is possible. Why are you so stuck on what gender they are?
@@drwhoman2010
Okay! A sexy furry cat as the Doctor sounds good!😂
Sounds less controversial than having a female Cyberman!😂
I’m absolutely fine with timeless child, but the way they destroyed Gallifrey ooooooh that keeps me up at night 😒