Making Sense of BI-GENERATION | Doctor Who Explained
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
- It's been three months since ‘Doctor Who’s 60th anniversary specials wrapped up, and fans have been scratching their heads over bi-generation ever since. Two months away from Ncuti Gatwa’s debut season, I take a look at everything we currently know about this latest edition to ‘Doctor Who’ mythology.
Introduction: 00:00
Types of Canon: 01:53
TV Canon: 04:59
Transmedia Canon: 09:30
“Word of God” Canon: 14:00
Interpretive Canon: 22:41
Conclusion: 27:25
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Doctor Who Magazine 487 - Production Notes (courtesy of The_Silver_Avenger) | / completing_the_matrix_...
Doctor Who Magazine 599 - “Talkin’ About Bi-Generation” (pp.12-20)
Doctor Who Page - Bi-Generation Rumour | photo/?fbid=...
Doctor Who Family - Fan Theory | profile/1000...
www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/..., www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/...
Novelisation Extracts | / 1747466432068092118 , / tidbits_from_the_giggl...
Paul Cornell - Canonicity in Doctor Who | www.paulcornell.com/2007/02/c...
RadioTimes | www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/..., www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/...,
RTD Radio 2 Statement | / 1747162071324676601
Russell T Davies Interview - SFX | www.gamesradar.com/russell_t_...
TARDIS Wiki (14th Doctor, 15th Doctor, The Woman, Canon, The Curator) | tardis.wiki/wiki/Fourteenth_D..., tardis.wiki/wiki/Fifteenth_Do..., tardis.wiki/wiki/The_Woman_(T..., tardis.wiki/wiki/Canon, tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Cu...
The Adventure Games Announcement | www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pre... l
Whoniverse Script Library | www.bbc.co.uk/writers/scripts...
Wikipedia | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_di...
Novelisation extracts provided by Pete Messum | / @petemessum
IMAGES:
Pexels | www.pexels.com/
The Black Archive | tbagallery.wixsite.com/thebla…
FOOTAGE:
BBC iPlayer | www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer
Doctor Who (CZcams Channel) | / @doctorwho
UltronmanX | • Video
ExtraClass | • What is An Amoeba | Bi...
Shabeebstyle | • No no no no no no no w...
DWhoUnreleased | • Steven Moffat on Retur...
Sammi's Universe Extra | • Ncuti Gatwa Doctor Who...
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Music and SFX courtesy of the CZcams audio library
Includes footage from Doctor Who (1963-89, 2005-Present), Doctor Who Confidential (2005-11), Doctor Who Unleashed (2023-Present), The Official Doctor Who Podcast (2023-Present), Tales of the TARDIS (2023), Back to the Future (1985), Marvel’s The Punisher (2017-18), Children in Need (2023) and The Graham Norton Show (2007-Present).
#DoctorWho #NcutiGatwa #DavidTennant #BBC #DisneyPlus
Doctor Who and the associated ‘Whoniverse’ programmes are property of the British Broadcasting Corporation, BBC Studios and Bad Wolf Studios. Back to the Future is the property of Universal Studios and Robert Zemekis. Marvel’s The Punisher is the property of Marvel Television and ABC. This is a video essay and not an infringement on copyright. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I think what I love about Bi-generation is realizing that this must have been exactly how people back in the 60's felt when they saw the first regeneration. Not well defined, out of nowhere, with earthshattering consequence for the show. I think we will learn to live with it. And I'm okay with it, as long as it never happens again, because THEN it would devalue the emotional justaposition of regeneration being sad and joyous forever.
Absolutely not. Regeneration was dramatically handled and wonderfully built up in mystery and adventure in the next story. In Giggle, it was not dramatic, not exciting, not interesting and not even done realistically. I'd accept it if it furthered the story or the character and other characters but it was done so badly.
Yeah, if you’re an amoeba then sure, why not? 🦠
@@ashleysherlock5705but it’s like how did we as human react when we first witnessed twins! It’s like witnessing something new!
I more or less instantly head canoned it as the older doctor will live his life and then regenerate into the younger doctor at the point of bi-generation. But I can see how other people might have other interpretations of it that they believe to be true.
@@charlesmento5968 This is just handedly not true. In Troughton's first episode (which is sadly one of the lost ones), the whole "renewal" thing is mostly hand-waved away and never fully explained. Then with Pertwee, the Time Lords changed his face as a punishment. We didn't even get the word "regeneration" or much of the lore surrounding it until the Fourth and Fifth Doctors. Tell us you've never watched the classics without telling us, or did you just miss the part when the OP said "people back in the 60s."
Wild Blue Yonder is the key to this whole thing. Making Myths real at the edge of the universe made it possible for bigeneration, a myth, to exist.
I hated it till after multiple rewatches it made more sense
True
That’s what I was thinking! He REALLY REALLY should not have invoked that superstition at the edge of the universe
"The Toymaker’s gift down the timeline. All the doctors bigenerated!"
Eighth Doctor Fandom: evil cackling
I think the bigeneration not previously being possible is true but the cartoonish physics of the toymaker’s world is not what changed that. 15 specifically mentions that it’s a myth, and I think it’s playing into the whole “line of salt at the edge of the universe” thing that is causing myths, legends, and superstitions to come into reality, as will be explored in the coming season.
Ooh, I like this reading! Myths and legends are becoming true now the supernatural has been allowed into the universe in Wild Blue Yonder, even Gallifreyan myths.
I think that another factor is that the Time Lords have lost their seat of power. I'm pretty sure they can hand wave the Master's tantrum as "oh, after we almost all died in the Time War a lot of us left Gallifrey for greater pastures, sucks for those that stayed on the homeworld". Either way the Time Lords have been a shell of themselves since the 9th/11th Doctor and they can't reinforce the laws of time like they used to, letting guys like the Toymaker have their fun
Actually, the Time Lords being gone/impotent would explain why New Who has seen a lot more universe-threatening calamities than Classic Who (or at least it happens more often)
Personally I think the salt is what let the Toymaker and his “legions” through and their chaotic nature is what’s causing the world to become more supernatural.
The toymaker somehow got into reality so that probably changes a lot of things. I think omega could come back too. But that may have more dangerous affects due to antimatter. I can foresee omega opening up portals like black holes of antimatter to try to swallow the Doctor up into it. To come to his dimension/universe.
I think it would be interesting to if Bi-Generation is actually a secret backdoor origin/explanation for the Valeyard (the one who waits?). Maybe Ncuti's final storyline involves something going wrong with the 14th Doctor and it is now affecting 15s own existence. Also having Mel being present during all of this would also be interesting considering she knows who the Valeyard is.
That's along my line of thinking
There is a theory that the dream lord is the valeyard is the dream lord because he only appears in the last regeneration of the doctor which was canonically 11s incarnation because he was supposed to be the last at that time and the dream lord is everything he hates about the doctor but it would be cool the ncuti could be the valeyard because they would say that he is clone made by the toy maker and can be a time bomb or cause chaos to aid the master and fight the doctor
I really dislike the idea that all previous Doctors bigenerated. That’s just stupid. I don’t mind the Gatwa/Tennant bigeneration because they handled it reasonably well. But it leads to funny outcome that Rose and Donna both get their own David Tennant but Martha doesn’t.
I think it would have been better for the 14th Doctor to regenerate into all of the older Doctors one at a time until finally regenerating into 15. I don't think it makes any sense for them to bi-generate at the time of their "deaths"
I think marther might back in season 14 of Doctor who. I think Ramania give the Doctor Ruby fogwacht
i think the line that the toy maker said about making a jisgaw of the doctors history is enough to explain the inconsistencies
I like to think it’s like this ,14 gets old and is now fixed, he starts to regenerate and you slightly see ncuti before he fades and way and teleports to the Unit base
I’m not sure about past Doctors bi-generating, I for one never really thought about why Doctors looked older when they came back, it wasn’t important to me, seeing the second Doctor old and grey didn’t bother me, it’s more ‘Oh wow, Patrick is back’. If Sylvester McCoy came back properly to the show for a one of, i’d just be happy he’s back and not worrying about the fact he’s older, the throw away line about the Doctor looking older because of time streams mixing as mentioned in Time Crash was good enough, now I think RTD has just added something there that doesn’t really need to be there
Throw away lines are important, like 7 said in Tales Of The Tardis ‘in some timelines I regenerate, in some I don’t’ little line to explain why he looks older, then they moved on, no added bi generating stuff
@@ashleysherlock5705 also, remember. He's post regeneration. The Doctor's memory goes haywire after regeneration
@@ashleysherlock5705 so like the 50th anniversary where the War Doctor forgets he saved Gallifrey and believes he destroyed it, just so when it comes to the 11th Doctor, he is extremely reluctant to try and save gallifrey because it may mess up his timeline?
I honestly figured the re-merging theory from the dialogue, and thinking of it like, "Well, 15 says he's only good because 14's doing the work.
So either the process just removed the pain easily from 15 and saying 14 is left to work through it in retirement, or there's Time shenanigans."
It being a time travel show, it seemed a clean idea if somehow 14 eventually is finished healing, starts to regenerate (from age, or by choice or maybe "that's it, we've finished), and just finds himself back in that moment as the next man. I shared this theory with my family and I think it helped them have an idea of what happened.
Edit: Disney+ Season One has just given us the line "I can't face that again, It tore my soul in half." Seemingly confirming that 14 & 15 are separate entities.😕
I’m all in on that theory
the only problem I can see with this theory, is that if 14 lives on and "fixes" himself, then becomes 15 and is returned to this moment, then 15 would remember being here as 14, which means his line of "what the hell is going on here" makes no sense, as he would know what's going on.
@@acephoenix161 you can’t remember interacting with your future self, it’s why The First Doctor didn’t remember Twice Upon A Time
@@mrcritical6751 SMH!, good point, never thought about that, it was the way 15 talks about 14 fixing himself, as though he has memories of it, i never thought that his memories might differ from actual events, thinking about it its like 10 and 11 stating that they destroyed gallifrey, despite events from the war doctors pov being that they simply moved it into a pocket universe.
@@acephoenix161 from 15’s perspective he remembers somehow stopping The Toymaker and then deciding to retire for a few years until he eventually dies and goes back to become 15
I think RTD kinda shot himself in the foot with the amount he wanted to do in just 3 episodes. He didnt really give himself a chance to spend more than a few lines to explain the bigeneration... I think the Toymaker should've been the one villain for all 3 episodes. His supernatural and extremely powerful abilities couldve been the catalyst for the Metacrisis resolution and also why a mythological thing like bigeneration suddenly happening. And the bigeneration shouldve had bigger hints beforehand.
One thing i dont get though is why he needed to wish in another tardis? Wouldnt the 15th have his own tardis from the future of 14...
Does that mean that there’s a rogue TARDIS in the timeline?
From my Headcanon, The wish wasn’t another TARDIS it’s just the TARDIS from the time 14 began regenerating into 15, hence the jukebox.
But it’s my headcanon, so take it with a grain of salt. :D
Is this the first time a bigeneration happened... Thinking the Fugitive Doctors line bigenerated to the first doctor... This it started the legend of bigeneration thus making Hartnell the first doctor once more.
wait is this what people watching the 1st doctor regenerate it just being mind blowing thinking how is that possible
The 12th Doctor once said something to the effect of "Our lives is a series of photos in a picture book". I see bi-generation as simply taking a picture and moving it forward a few pages.
I’ve got a couple comments on bigeneration…tho at first it seemed like a weird way for RTD to keep the 10th/nee 14th Doctor around forever similar to how he made the meta crisis 10th Doctor split off from 10 (and Donna!) and stay with Rose…happy ending because he can’t bring himself to truly get rid of his favorite Doctor and Companion. An interesting psychological study on authors becoming so attached to their creations that they can’t bear to “kill them off” and we’ve seen it twice now with RTD and the David Tennant Doctor and CT’s Donna! :-) And it’s endearing IMO, he loves these characters just as much as we the fans do, and we don’t want them to go either…and now we can reconcile watching a new Doctor while also literally getting our happy ending where the 10th/14th Doctor and Donna are running around still having grand adventures as best buds, pals who love each other dearly and live forever! Wonderful stuff really!
For a more in universe Bigeneration, it has happened before! The 4th Doctor and The Watcher (you may cover this, I of course can wait to write when I get an idea, so already writing this while still watching your vid!). The Watcher (the white ghostly dude that melds together with Tom Baker at the end of Logopolis) is literally said to be a glimpse of “my future” by Tom Baker’s Doc as he answers Adria as to who The Watcher is, and he appears all throughout time and space. Obviously he’s ghostly and wrapped in white and I doubt there’s a white powdery TARDIS that The Watcher is using to travel to these far flung locales in time and space, so while more mystical in nature, he is absolutely the Doctor and a “split” from Tom Baker’s Doctor (and when you think about it, no reason he has to split at a regeneration instead of before it, or merging during a regeneration…the Doc is the Doctor and when he splits shouldn’t matter just as a MultiDoctor story doesn’t really need to be the different actors playing him, it could be 3 x 4th Doctors teaming up…or as you mentioned earlier a guy as a teen, a man and old man…I mean it’s all the same guy from different points in his time line !
Oh, and here’s my big controversial idea that I just thought of - at least as far as I know no one else has posted this idea before…what if Susan is also a Bigeneration of the Doctor??? Technically the Doctor still would be a Grandfather (well, you’d think she might choose “Father” but Grandfather works just as well, Oh! Maybe she’s a Bigeneration of a Bigeneration from the original Doctor-being! And could be why she says she made up the word TARDIS from time and relative dimension in space despite it clearly being called a TARDIS by all subsequent Time Lords, even early ones like the Monk before they were even called Time Lords, the War Lords (even using backwards SIDRATS for their home made version) and The Master. Perhaps Susan made the term uo in Earth English as she learned at Coal Hill school and the word we hear TARDIS is the actual Time Lord term being translated into English (or whatever your language is) by the TARDIS’ translation circuits (or Doctor’s time lord gift as it has been explained both ways). And this could be why it gets invariably translated as “craft”, “time ship”, “ship”, etc. Would also make sense why the Doctor leaves her behind yet doesn’t go visit her…she needed to find herself become her own individual who can stand up for herself..and being him, he knew she was fully capable. And also means Borusa *knew* and actually kidnapped *6* Doctors from time and space during the events of The Five Doctors: 1-5 and his first(?) Bigenerational self Susan! And Borusa knew the Doctor had unlimited lives, not bound by the 12 regeneration limit, and perhaps hoped to siphon off the “new regeneratiin cycle” they promised the Master if he helped save the Doctor. I mean if they could just grant these then why not get his cycle that way and have another 13 lifetimes to look for an even better solution…incidentally, I think this is where the Master got curious and started looking into the Doctor’s past and just why he was so highly regarded by the Time Lords…
And finally, this makes far more sense of The Fugitive Doctor, rather than coming before Hartnell yet with a Plife Box TARDIS, when Hartnell has always been shown to be the first Doctor even stealing the TARDIS, makes more sense she was from the prime line? Hartnell’s Doctor was a bigen split and started a whole new line and thus he is the first of this line, for whatever reason not having the memories of the main line?
Okay, really finally, it also makes more sense of The Valeyard - as a future Bigeneration split…but why he’d need the regenerations of the past Doctor is worrying; perhaps at some point the split selves lose some of he capabilities of the main/Parent source self? Then again this is Who, could be solved in one line of technobabble… “after a catastrophic encounter with a future Doctor (Doctors?) they almost succeeded in destroying ‘re-absorbing the amalgamated evil known as The Valeyard but just short of destroying him completely or absorbing him back into the main line, they only managed to injure him to stop him being able to regenerate further as well as no,longer being able to split off anymore evil selves and thus why he was trying to steal the past Doctor’s regenerations…to replenish the ability that would ensure eternal life.
Anyway, forgive using your video to post my amateurish Fan Fic but dang, they could really go with this if they but explore it further and can use it to explain lots of yonky questions that have never made much sense in Who History! Cheers!
Great job with the video! Keep it up!
Thank you. Took me a long time to get it all together so very happy to finally have it out there
@@TBowenMedia Well I can tell you that it all paid off- Am around 25 minutes in so far and this is brilliant. Good work!
Holy shit it’s the dwfan91
The 91st fan
@@the8bitbuilder_486 What's up man🫡
After you brought 2 times that since power of the doctor to giggle 15 hours have passed i seriously started to think that bi-generation happend because of what stated in Christmas invasion(even rewatched episode)plus maybe some unintended toymaker magic
I honestly forgot about the specific 15 hours line in The Christmas Invasion. The idea that this time frame allows Time Lords to heal wounds is supported in Let’s Kill Hitler and The Woman Who Fell to Earth. I wish I had remembered this because the fact it’s the same length of time feels like too much a coincidence to me.
So glad to see somebody else say this! Thought about it at the time but haven't seen it said anywhere else yet
@@hazmat7949 well i didn't know that only 15 hours have passed i think many people didn't know that too
14th Doctor canonically had an adventure with The Daleks before he got to Earth for Star Beast, so he had a couple days at least
@@mrcritical6751 The script says otherwise
I really liked the bigeneration. I loved the 2 former companions helping pull him apart. Not only is the metamorphis of him splitting into 2 separate doctors cathartic, it also feels like a metaphor. They really talk about 14 needing to rest to address his mental health issues (ans retire) with the Noble family. But his being pulled apart and then him pushing away from himself it also such a mental health metaphor. I believe that the global pandemic we all lived through brought mental health to the forefront of the global community. 14 is finally acknowledging the depression and he is finally getting time to process the grief he has been ignoring. The Who community would probablynot want to go through that journey with him. So 15 is the Dr after he has separated himself and/or faced those issues.
I also think bigeneration can help us deal with some of the doctor's other faces or personalities we've seen in past (and possibly) future issues.
My interpretation will be that it is one's timeline looping back in on itself. 14 will eventually regenerate for real, only to be sent back to the bigeneration as 15. That's why 15 says he sorted things out. He's a 14 who had that off screen rest implied by the ending. Time Lords are this inherently temporally unique race so stuff like this could be a thing that's possible in theory, but the Time Lords usually have checks and balances to prevent it happening. The Toymaker making reality more fluid allowed phenomenon with these time-sensitive species to happen again. The Watcher could be a similar phenomenon but instead of a full Doctor it is more of an echo of 5 going back in time to help 4; since the Time Lords are still in power full bigeneration can't happen. I am guessing these limitations are in play to prevent paradoxes and Time Lords from getting too much information about their own futures
Is it a stretch? Maybe. But I like the idea of 15 being 14 being sent back when he truly regenerates so 14 gets time to sort himself out. As for the TARDIS, the hammer just brings the future one back so 15 doesn't have to go look for it
I've been watching DW since around about 1976 (I am a few months older than the show) none of this fazed me can't wait for the whole thing to become clear
Idk why but that part at the end suddenly made me really excited for Gatwa’s 15 again!
It was a pretty bungled concept.
A much easier way to achieve the same beats would be having the Toymaker "summon" the 15th to face him - a new TARDIS materialises and out stumbles a freshly regenerated Ncuti. No need to magic up a second TARDIS or have ambiguity as to the nature of 15 going forward
Even better, you could have made a timey wimey Time Crash story beat of Ncuti confidently saying he knows they will win, because he has already witnessed it, throwing the the Toymakers off his stride and causing him to drop the ball. That would also fit the theme of the tired and uncertain 14th now being the confident 15th
Ok well to be honest I was one of the lucky ones that mostly avoided the spoilers. I saw a few mentions of it in comments on channels but as I don't do any social media but CZcams I avoided it and I wasn't going to seek out information I like surprises 😊.
Bi generation itself was a surprise for me and my interpretation of it at the time was it happened from a combination of 14 spilling the salt at the edge of the universe thereby allowing myth to become reality (15 saying bi generation was a myth on Galifrey) and the Toymakers realm being present and distorting reality as well. My understanding was that the therapy in the wrong order was just that 14 was going to stay in one place with no more saving the world and work through everything that has occurred to him/her in their lifetime. Eventually when it is actually his time he will regenerate into 15 who wil be whisked through time (Timey Wimey moment) to the moment of the bi generation itself.
15 is the one who will go around saving the world from all the myths and legends that are now appearing because of the salt at the edge of the universe.
I have no issue with bi generation based on the above belief.
I do agree that Russell seems to have a problem seeing the different actors as all one entity and it does seem to affect his writing because of it.
I also will admit to my favourite episodes of RTD's era actually mostly being ones Moffat wrote and the Doctor I connected the most with - 12 - being in Moffats tenure.
Saying all that I have been watching since Jon Pertwee and feel there is no real canon just possibilities and endless imagination from the writers. I guess I am a go with the flow type and have yet to see a Doctor I didn't love. 😊
my theory is the tardis 14 has post bigeneration gets brought to the past when 15 splits the tardis into two tardises
also rehab out of order means in my theory that 15 is benefiting from the rehab that 14 has yet to go through
15 does say “fix” not “fixed” but that doesn’t mean he’s not a future incarnation. In the Doctor’s own words “People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.”
He is speaking to a past version of himself in the present tense, he is “fixed” because 14 will “fix” himself.
the RTD doctorverse biregeneration theory is kinda like the premise of the dark dimension where the fourth doctor didn't end up regenerating and I'm pretty sure all the other doctors said to appear in the dark dimension also came from a time where they didn't regenerate when they were supposed too causing time or whatever to go arrie
Maybe that the whole bigeneration thing is left without elaboration and made confusing on purpose to explain later on
You perfectly articulated all my feelings on this concept
Even if Russell didn't preface his ideas for bi-generation as a "theory" it still would not be canon. Four words: Death of the author.
“Death of the Author” is part of the reason I created the “Word of God” category of canon, separate from narrative sources.
Bi generation is a perfect example of Russel focusing on character and story over something making complete sense. He was focused on giving 14 a happy ending and giving fans a stopping point if they wanted. So he waved away all the explanation stuff to focus on character arcs, and he should have found a way to do both.
As for me I'm of the opinion that bi generation happened due to a mix of the toy makers realm as well as regenerating 15 hours after his last one as we never have seen what happens when a time lord regeneates that quickly, and 14 will become 15 in the future. The because you fix yourself line told me that. I love the idea as a storytelling device but that's all so I'm fine with it once but please don't happen again.
All continuity arros can be explained but the toymaker making a jigsaw of the doctors life. Ever dince his first game with the doctor, hes been panning his revenge very carefully.
As for bigeneration, that couod explain the valeyard. David is gonna become the valeyard, while the main doctor will regenerate into the curator in the final ever episode, (whenever that may be). Heck, theyre even bringing back Mel and the Master, both of whome met the Valeyard in TOATL.
For me I struggle in some ways to see Ncuti as the doctor because of that gap between 14 and 15. The span of time we don't see where the doctor heals himself. It feels like a whole character arc they couldn't be bothered to write. And now some new man saunters away whom we're unfamiliar with whilst we're left to wonder what 14 is up to.
It's so easy to make sense of Bi-Generation, and you don't even need to look too deeply into it. I think it's obvious. Then theres those who hate it for the sake of hating it
Honestly I like Bi generation just because it means 14 didn't have to die and he got a happy ending, his reward.
There's many potential explanations for Bi-generation I hope they give us a good one.
The whole Toymakers rules of play explanation is kinda lame imo, but still at least it'd be something.
The whole 15 hours since regenration could've been a good callback to Tennants first episode. In that one he lost a hand and grew another. Here he got shot down the middle and grew a whole new body.
Alternatively what if the Bi-generation was caused by a part of The Doctor's true dna awakening? We know they aren't really gallifreyan, they're a species from another universe we don't know. Lately they've had very unconventional regens. First time being a woman, regenrating into a different person (the Master) then back into 13 (everyone forgets Jodie did it first lol) dying again minutes later and regenerating into an even older face (14). All this unstable DNA could be an understandable explanation for something odd like Bi-generation happening.
This next one is such a stretch but it just goes to show there are so many ways they could've explained Bi-generation. In Big Finish they explain that when Missy died, she used something called an Elysian Field to split the good and bad parts of her essentially creating a reverse Valeyard for Missy (The Lumiat) What if the Doctor had done the same or what if the field Missy created was still active even when she was one of the Toymakers teeth and it split the Doctor too. That could explain the whole rehab out of order thing because the field would literally be pulling out some bad parts of the Doctor like their trauma.
It made me think of Cho ji / Kan po and the malformed ghostly doctor from the third and fourth doctor's regenerations respectively. Like this was a thing before, but it was only somewhat perfected by an ascetic guru figure and only partially, perhaps even subconciously, imitated by Baker's regenerating doctor. This would explain why Tenant felt like he should soon die. His future self had only previously turned up as an omen of his coming death. On the other hand, Kan Po had lived a life of seclusion with Cho Ji running the daily business of the monestary. The past self retiring to self actualise while the future self went about the business of life. Sound familiar?
I'm just happy to see the show keep going. I've been there since day one, my Father worked on it, decades later so did I and now yet another generation is at it !
Oh that’s lovely to hear. I’m still very much a fan and it’s important even when being critical of the show to remember how amazing it is that Doctor Who has been able to survive over half a century and is still going strong today. Out of interest, what was your dad’s role on the show?
@@TBowenMedia My Father Chick was the Sound Supervisor. FYI, I was a Video Tape Engineer. He got onscreen credits, I didn't :-(
great video! i appreciate you doing the extra research that i haven’t had the energy to do, but i was deeply curious what else was said about the bigeneration.
i luckily had no spoilers going into the giggle, and was surprised when the bigeneration happened. my initial feeling was definitely confusion and a little sad - i was so excited about ncuti taking over the mantle from david and was concerned that the plot implications of this episode meant that david was the final chapter of the “real” doctor, while ncuti was just a clone going off into the future.
after hearing the therapy line and seeing the theory that 14 eventually loops back around to 15, however, i completely changed my mind and felt very happy with the bigeneration. in this case, it feels like the bending of reality (implications of myth) that makes sense in the context of the timey wimey sci-fi parts of the show.
i think rtd definitely left it very very open ended (and his mixed messages about the canonicity of his theories is odd), but i can definitely see some reasoning or positives to this method: - adds to the mystique and intrigue of the moment
- helps the pacing of the episode
- most importantly: creates an ongoing mystery or problem to solve or slowly tease out (especially if this has to do with the supernatural becoming real)
to that last point, i feel like rtd likes leaving holes and slowly drip-feeding lore to us through season-long threads. we’ll just have to see though!
I think the same. The Bi-Regeratiin didn't make sense til 15 said " We are doing rehab out of ". Which says to me that at some point, 14 becomes 15. Otherwise we would have 2 Doctors running around and that would be insane. The universe would be a better place for it with 2 Doctors fixing things. But from a story telling prospective, it would make sense because we cause have 2 Doctors fix 1 problem and we would be asking ourselves this problem is to big for 1 Doctor, so where is the other 1?😅
Instead of Marty McFly, I thought more along the lines of Yoda in Return of the Jedi. Fading in his final moments in bed.
Fourteen becomes one with the force; love it!
This is an idea from someone else, but it bares repeating. If instead the 15th Doctor had flown his Tardis in to block the laser shot, saving the 14th Doctor rather than the Bi-generation, it would have narratively been the same, but far cleaner.
The 15th Doctor arrives, fully formed, having regenerated in some indeterminate future. The 14th realises he needs to stop to breathe. Stays on Earth with the Nobles for an indeterminate amount of time until he regenerates into the 15th.
And so we have the same narrative, without also heaping a ton of extra questions.
I have a theory that since the Mavity scene we've been in a split branch timeline, one parallel universe with Mavity where superstition was invoked at the edge of the universe, the Toymaker killed the Doctor and everything is possible.
And another parallel universe with Gravity where 14 wasn't killed, and the bi-generation is a result of these two realities occupying the same space and time like some sort of MCU incursion.
And to fix reality 15 will be forced to go back and undo everything he's ever done with Ruby at the end of the season.
Full disclosure I haven't watched the video yet, I will when I have time, I kept seeing the thumbnail and wanted to write down my thoughts.
I kinda wish we just went straight into Ncuti. But the toymaker essentially put a filter over 15's mind so that every time he see's himself, he sees his regret. This essentially gives the toymaker the advantage this time around as it distracts the Doctor. Either that or Ncuti was in "THE WAITING ROOM" similar to Quantum Leap. Where Ncuti is sorta "stuck" between regenerating because The Toymaker used his powers to pull out an old face.
I was so glad I didn’t know about the bigeneration before the episode and really thought tennant would be in the UNIT series I had heard of.
if 15 hours is all that passed he could have been still protected from his last regeneration or 14th doctor or 15 become the valeyard I need an explanation of what happened with the Regeneration
Oooft might want to come back to this one after the soul being split in half comment and RTD saying David Tennant is done (what was the point if he's done?!?!)
Making sense of it in one easy sentence: it's a bit of an ass-pull so Russell could have his cake and eat it too.
Now we can finally start tye arc of the valleyard
25:20 Then by that same logic. 15 shouldn't be healed. Because 14 hasn't gone through the healing process yet.
I just hate that they addressed the bigeneration in Devil's Chord as splitting a soul in half. It makes me think that 14 was left with all the burden, grief and sorrow to deal with, while 15 is running around laughing, giggling and healed from his traumas.
I also hate how RTD addresses Tennant as parked and I seriously don't believe them when they say 14 is done, Tennant is not coming back, etc. I feel like at any given moment 14 will be part of spin off or something, or ''break glass in case of emergency'' if this era fails.
I like to believe the time travel theory. Once 14 deals with his traumas, he will eventually turn into regeneration energy and travel back in time to the UNIT rooftop, but from 15's point of view, being reborn into a new body.
Hello Tom, it’s been a while my old friend. I hope you are well. Glad to see you have a CZcams channel on which you can talk about your favourite show. Personally, I see bi-generation as a splitting of the time line. 14 represents a timeline in which the Doctor didn’t regenerate and 15 a timeline in which he did. Both possibilities occur at once and then the timeline resets once 15 departs.
Also, like to think of 14’s therapy taking the form of him revisiting old faces such as that of the fourth doctors’, so that he can become the Curator. Eventually once therapy is over he becomes 15.
Hi Matthew, good to hear from you again. I like the idea of two timelines co-existing.
@@TBowenMediaI have my own theory, what if the bi regeneration was a way for the univers to be safe while the doctor healing, think of it this way, 15th is an eco from the future with fore knowledge about what happens, while 14 rests 15 takes care if the univers, when 14 is ready 15 comes back and gets absorbed into 14, he then says goodbye to the nobles and then regenerates into 15
i thought the doctor if he was only 15 hours into his life would have been still regenerating like how 10 did with his hand so shouldnt he have just healed from the lazer like isnt he kinda imortal for 24 hours
Yeah like The Christmas Invasion even stated that, has Russell T Davies forgotten? 🤔
It'ss very possible that 14 spent that amount of time just fucking about in the Tardis trying to figure stuff out. This eoulf be supported by the children in need special, which shows that at the very least he didn't immediately end up at earth and meet Donna. Also consider how most Doctors pass out or are at least incredibly all over the place immediately post regeneration, whereas 14 is already comfortable, calm and even smiling the moment he steps out of the Tardis on earth, and is very much still clearly in post-regeneration-mania in that special. I think it's reasonable to assume then that there was a fairly long buffer time between the end of Power and the start of Star Beast, meaning the roughly 4-5 hours that those specials take place in aren't the first 4-5 hours of 14's life.
@@CJFS00s no. We don't know how much time has passed for the Doctor between Power of the Doctor and The Giggle.
In the Star Beast, it starts off in late afternoon and finishes in daylight, that's at least a 12 hour time jump.
It's 15 hours. And it had 15 hours. The Star Beast had at least a 12 hour time jump at the end
Great vid
I prefer the novelization's take on bi-generation leagues more than what RTD is trying to entail. It's a cool idea if handled like the fifteenth doctor is the doctor's future rather than a splitting version. I will especially hate it if he's serious about this whole idea of all the doctors living on through bi-generation. Let that remain as his own little head-canon. I just don't think it would do any good for the show.
I think 14th has became the Curator
13:09 liberation isn’t cannon tho but the children in need special is
What if the Doctor Bi-generated once before in the Past and that's where The Master came from?
I would explain it like this: it works however you believe it to work, allowing you to make your own canon, and would not be that important (like can 14 regenerate again, it would be never shown on screen (most likely))
I honestly don't mind not fully understanding it, the story makes emotional sense which I think takes precedent, yes our nerd brains will try to make sense of the lore, and it would have been interesting to get a more solid explanation (and we still might, as you say) but what's important to me is the emotional logic of the fourteenth Doctor retiring, a uniquely happy ending to a version of the character, and a relatively fresh slate for the fifteenth. I don't think his beginning explicitly needed more clarity, he owned the screen, he was the Doctor, that's what tangibly mattered to me. Plus, I find all the debates and different interpretations genuinely interesting, as opposed to frustrating. I do like the Capaldian death metaphor the show carries at times, and I wouldn't like the fourteenth Doctor popping up frequently or even too prominently ever again, but I like that the show is capable of doing different things, even after all this time.
Man, I clap your investigation, really, you really did your homework there! And yeah, I'm agree that the whole concept wasn't good introduced nor explained. To me, the lines "rehab out of order", means that the Time Lords somehow can invoke future versions of themselves that already had overcame their present issues, as a way to give their younger selves hope that they will get it, meanwhile they take a breath, relieving places until the past one becomes the future one, and the invoked one can go back to his own time.
Yep, REALLY complicated.
I wonder which one will ultimately become the vanyard
I hate the theory that 14 is gonna turn into 15 through time travel. It needlessly complicates bi-generation & I'd rather 14 & 15 to be separate beings who split off in a process like cellular mitosis.
Another problem is that in the Church on Ruby road when 15 says he's adopted he said he only found out 'recently' I know recently for the Doctor is different to a normal person but surely if he grew old as 14 surely that means 14 saw Donna and her entire family die around him because he ages slowly unless 14 now ages normally which wouldn't really make sense and surely when 15 sees Donna there would be more of a reaction in that case? So basically 15 still calling 13 recent for me doesn't really work with 15 being that much older then 14 maybe 15 gets the effects of 14s rehab but only has the memories of 14 up to the point of the bi-generation that way it would make sense 15 still sees 13 as recent because it was only hours between 13s regeneration and the bi-generation
To be clear, everything post heaven sent is now recent for them, since they have 4 billion years worth of repeated memories
@@littleredruriHe only has the memories of the final loop
@@rhodrage hell bent seems to imply he remembers all of it
It's still relatively recent for the Doctor.
but didn't 13 spend several years in prison until jack harkness busted her out? so anyway "recently" is either not the best writing or meant to be taken in the context of the doctors ridiculously long life
WELCOME BACK RTD !!!!
the fact that we need a 37 min video to explain this proves it just… should not have happened 😭
You thought about this in more depth than Russel
Davies has basically said that it will be way more fantasy, i.e. He is not going to bother with making sense.
I loved The Giggle, but it desperately needed to be a 2 part episode. Also John Hurt was great 10 years ago but it really should've been Paul McGann imo. And idc what anybody says, the Cbeebies bedtime story is 100% canon
Yeah totally agreed. The War Doctor was always going to be a great idea at the time, especially from an advertising and viewing figure perspective considering Hurt was a massive actor but as time passed by, the Time War was always going to be less necessary, meaning the idea of a 'hidden' Doctor would be less interesting. This is especially considering McGann only had 1 episode. He is the definition of a 'forgotten' incarnation where he and Big Finish worked hard to develop his Doctor into the one who fought in the Time War. RTD intended it to always be 8 to destroy Gallifrey. I love the story of the special but it still annoys me that the BBC Execs / Moffat didn't allow McGann to come back for the main special rather than just a minisode. I could easily have seen McGann in the episode rather than Hurt.
Let’s face it, it was just a way of keeping Tennant around. That’s it.
Whst hurts a lot of the emplaning after the fact that has gone on about bi-generation is the most of it isn’t readily available to international fans we didn’t get the commentary versions of the specials where the every doctor bi-generated theory was said we didn’t get unleashed where the behind the scenes was discussed and it’s not easy to get ahold of doctor who magazine especially here in America we have to go by fan accounts of what they saw so not putting the explanation fully in the episode means a lot of fans won’t have readily available access to the explanations after the fact making so much of that uk exclusive
IF THE TIMELESS CHILD AND THE FLUX ARE A THING....THE TIME LORDS ARE GONE....AGAIN....AND THE DOCTOR IS OFF THE LEASH...
Honestly this video sums up how I feel pretty well. I think they needed to explain more, and so much of the paratext makes the actual text more confusing, especially the whole "all the Doctors bigenerated now actually" part. I tend to subscribe to the theory of it being more temporal than biological, because those lines about rehab and such carry more weight than him splitting apart like mitosis. Your point about RTD struggling to see all the Doctors as the same person with all these things together definitely is something to consider too. It almost sometimes feels like RTD wanted to do something bold and big for the sake of it without thinking much about it.
It's all very weird and confusing... and this is from someone who liked The Timeless Child, the other recent big lore fuckery (even if its execution story wise left much to be desired).
3:33 😂😂😂
Facts
Great video. I thought it was really muddled too. I found myself wanting to give my full attention to 15 but 14 was still here. Very odd
Great video! Very well researched and clearly well thought out. You've managed to put my exact thoughts and issues with the bi-generation into words better than I ever could. I'm not against new ideas, and did love watching 14 and 15 interact, but I just really wish it was explained better as a concept. Much like you, I was left confused about what this actually means for the Doctor (and the TARDIS), and sadly RTD's "explanation" in the commentaries, only made it more confusing for me lol. I've since decided to stick with the most common fannon interpretation, choosing to believe that 14 does eventually (after working on his issues and resting with the Nobles for a while), go back in some form or another to "join" with 15, therefore the "rehab out of order" bit makes some sense. That still leaves the questions of when and how that actually happens, what happens to 14's TARDIS, etc.. But at least it helps me accept that they're both still the same Doctor and not two completely separate entities all of the sudden.
I think you might be right about RTD's overall interpretation of the different incarnations as separate people - that might explain why he didn't see the same issues we do with this idea; cause to me personally, part of the charm of the show as a whole and the regeneration concept specifically, was that the Doctor is still always the same character. Same person, same set of memories and experiences - still the Doctor, just with a different face and slightly different personality traits. I find this to be one of the most important aspects of the character, which is why the idea of bi-generation and the thought of the Doctor "splitting" into two in such an open-ended manner, felt so jarring and uncomfortable to me. I've honestly kinda given up on this ever being addressed in the actual show again, but I guess we'll have to wait and see haha.
Does 14 remember meeting 15?
This was a point I nearly discussed in the video but ultimately didn’t get round to. Based on The Day of the Doctor novelisation, previous Multi-Doctor stories and statements from Steven Moffat, during these encounters the latest Doctor can remember being their previous self but only remembers the events *as they happen*. Maybe the unique case of bi-generation negates this or maybe Fifteen’s genuine surprise when he arrives is from his old memories reawakening as he returns to that moment on UNIT tower. I personally think, that if the “rehab out of order” line is taken to mean that 14 will still become 15 in the future, that David’s Doctor may enter his retirement with only vague memories of this encounter, taking the central message of bettering himself and aspiring to the peace he saw in his future self.
@@TBowenMedia yeah makes sense, nice one
I agree with you the bi-generation doesn’t seem to have a purpose (as David will not be seen again as 14th) and is rather disrespectful to Ncuti.
If the "14 dies then wakes up as Gatwa on the helipad" take away is true, then why not just have 15 travel back to that point - like how the Day of the Doctor Doctors did to save Gallifrey?
If the complete incarnation split take away is true, then why invent this new regeneration mechanic at all? If you want Tennant back, then refer to him as any number after 15. Could even have some fun with it and give him a Scottish accent and grey hair.
Because that's overdone. It's good to experiment with new things.
@@mrdr0161 it's not experimenting if it's treading the same ground
@@Scroteydada but it's not. Bigeneration is a new and interesting concept.
@@mrdr0161 but my point was that the story didn't need to clumsily exposit a new lore element at the end of an episode when we already have a way for 2 doctors to appear at once
Firstly, one of the best videos about Doctor Who I’ve seen. We agree with a number of things and disagree about others but really enjoyed the intelligent way you took in the subject. Ok, I like RTD but if I had to choose I’m more of a Moffat fan for some of the reasons you highlight in your video. I doubt he would’ve included a bi-generation. This is pure conjecture but my theory is that RTD does indeed see The Doctor as separate people and he struggles with multi-Doctor stories because he doesn’t separate the characters from the actor. He clearly loves David Tenant,so much so his version of the Doctor exists three times over. This is very telling. Fundamentally I think Stephen Moffat embraces the idea of “same software, different case.” RTD actually had the tenth Doctor say “Some other bloke gets up and walks off!” Their lays the difference. So, to me Bi-generation is a plot tool not to kill his favorite actor who played the Doctor. So, DT fans can still imagine he’s travelling the universe but we just don’t see him. But more importantly, he can come back. Now, narratively. I always thought it was the Doctors fault he Bi-Generated because he cast the salt at edge of the universe. He said that he open the door for myth to be possible. Anyway, I think the whole landscape for TV is changing and Doctor Who will have to being in subscriptions and eventually the show will have to stand on its own feet if we’re to believe what RTD has been saying about the BBC.
Thank you for such a well constructed comment and I appreciate what you had to say, especially your belief Russell views the Doctors as separate people and what bi-generation was meant to accomplish. I personally feel that the show being about time travel means David Tennant’s Doctor is always out there somewhere which is why I don’t think the show needs to go to such great lengths to establish another Tennant incarnation based on Earth, but we’ll see how this is followed up on in future stories. As for your theory about bi-generation being enabled due to the Doctor letting in supernatural forces in Wild Blue Yonder; I actually quite like that interpretation. Adds more validity to the Doctor’s claims that it’s just a myth that’s been made possible thanks to the Doctor’s mistakes.
It had potential but if he wasn’t going to continue with tennant the whole things was a bit stupid and pointless would of rather he had regenerated properly if they don’t bring him back in 15’s run the whole thing makes very little sense as I thought tennant was healing he would turn into 15 or even re join with 15 but obviously not 😂
Chaos reigns! All doctors are being menaces simultaneously!! Bigenration down the timeline has doomed us all!
My problems with bi generation are:
1. Is there gonna be two doctors forever now?? Can they BOTH regenerate still??? This is CLEARLY a problem. So will both doctors regenerate into two different faces??? Or will they have the same actor? Its too complicated. It would only make sense if one of them lost the ability to regenerate and would become mortal
2. You cant ever have the world ending or any huge threat, because now it makes no sense for the doctors to not team up to save the world. Every time shit goes that bad we will all just be thinking “okay but he could go grab the other doctor to help….”
With 2. That's always been the case. The Doctor is a time traveller, every incarnation is traveling around, a lot of the time in the same time zone. If the Doctor is struggling with something, why couldn't they have just asked another version for help before? That's not a new question
@@mrdr0161 but wasnt multi-doctor stories complicated before because one of them wouldn’t remember? The younger one- but in this case 15 and 14 seemed to both keep their memories after meeting.
Okay here's my hunch
It was used as an excuse for Tennant to return as the major villain at the end of new season "1" or "2".
I am not buying for a single second that Tennant isn't returning, no matter what he and Davies says publicly.
Tennant will return as "he who waits", maybe a warped version of The Doctor or Valeyard.
I am 💯 convinced Mr Tennant is returning as the main villain
I think he will return but i dont think he’ll be a villian.
It's for Big Finish to figure out now.
What it accomplishes is that "past" Doctors can appear in new media - whether multi-Doctor stories in the main series or spinoffs - without the actor ageing being a problem. It means that Sylvester being in his 80s (but still knocking it out of the park with a pitch-perfect performance) doesn't matter- it works. But yes, beyond that I fully agree that it doesn't *quite* work. If they went into their own separate timelines i.e. had their own universe that they broke away into as part of the process of bi-generation then that would be narratively better in terms of there being only 1 active Doctor.... or if it were confirmed that they have a finite and shortish lifespan -like a mayfly- before finally "dying" and disappearing to be returned to the moment of bi-generation, then that would make more sense but be too complicated.
Basically RTD liked the idea in terms of the tone and spectacle but didn't think it through because: not enough time, or something. I get it- it's hard to deliver perfect adventure stories with perfect temporal physics... but it does bring up a lot of tricky issues. And I think RTD is aware of it but obvs he needs to be positive about what's happening.
It'll be really interesting to see whether they do another bigeneration when Ncuti leaves or whether they revert to business-as-usual... I *really* hope they revert to the traditional method. It can still be a thing that the Toymaker incident means there are aged versions of all the other Doctors flying around *in separate timelines*... but let it be a sort-of-death and sort-of-birth again. It's a really important part of the show.
i love 14 as well as much as the next person im sure the bi generation is put in place to keep tennant around for future epesidodes i wont say we would expect him soon i think the bi generation thingy called also be telling people hey countine 14's adventure and just make your own take on the 14th doctor but we will wait and see what they do with it but i think the 14th doctor is now just there for the commuity to create there own stories with and thats including big finish
Explained ..RTD and Phil Collinson both thought it would be "fabulous " and expound more "queer energy " no more no less ..we all know what this was ...
I’m not sure what Ncuti’s sexuality has to do with any of this.
My big complaint is that RTD came up with this big grand idea that all the Doctors bi-generated, and then promptly chose not to use it at besides hinting at it in Tales of the TARDIS
Stuff and nonsense
I'm hoping 15 will eventually become the VALEYARD and 14 is actually the real Doctor
I'll be honest and say I'd really dislike this as a plot development. It would just add fuel to the fire of fans who won't accept Ncuti as the Doctor and I have to ask why you want Fourteen to be the "real Doctor". David has already played the role twice and isn't it time the show moved on from his incarnation?
on top of everything else personally i really hate the fact that this was done with THIS specific pair of actors as well. i love ten but it's exhausting how many people care ONLY about ten and none of the other doctors and i kind of think rtd is obsessed with him. i get that 10.3 is different to regular 10 in some ways but david is mostly playing the same character just more depressed and emotionally expressive. this is the THIRD david tennant doctor we have now and the SECOND time that something wacky happened with a david tennant doctor leading to him not regenerating. just let him die! jesus christ ! i hate that ncuti gatwa's first half episode as the doctor was about the david tennant doctor. other doctors especially in nuwho get to immediately make an impression the SECOND they regenerate but ncuti gatwas whole 30 minutes was about the david tennant doctor?? like idk i really think that's disrespectful to your own lead actor.
and with this combination of actors specifically, there's just the added dimension of there were ALREADY people who were convinced only david can be the doctor AND there were already plenty of racists unwilling to accept ncuti as the doctor just because he's black. i can't help but feel those people have been given an out by this script because by making bigeneration a thing (and explaining it poorly compounds all this) it's kind of like handing them a pass to decide which of the two gets to be the "real" doctor now. i've already seen countless people profess that they're far more interested in watching david's adventures than ncuti's and ncuti is the goddamn main character of the show right now. it's like a repeat of what happened with matt back in 2010 except at least there wasn't a david doctor that walked away from THAT regeneration that all of matt's detractors could latch onto.
ALSO. i honestly just think it's bad writing. first of all, i completely resent the idea that the doctor's home is with the noble family instead of the tardis. and like... his only actual friend there is donna which granted they're practically besties but i don't find there's anything special about her that makes her far more important to him than any other companion (and she's literally my favourite). wilf just saw him that one time on christmas and then that one time in the sontaran episode and then was his companion stand in for end of time which is fine and i love him so much and everything and i think both of them really care about each other but "home" is a bit of a stretch. as for the others sylvia literally hated his ass until the end of star beast and he's never met shaun or rose before so what gives?
i feel like going forward there are basically gonna be two options for how rtd can deal with this, character-wise and they're both bad
A - the doctor does all his therapy and is in perfect mental health come season 14. in this case, the writing is unsatisfying because we don't actually get to see any of the healing that the doctor does. rtd also wrote season 1 of nuwho where nine went through one of the best character arcs on doctor who, and possibly one of the best ever put to television. that was AMAZING to see. imo rtd's strengths always laid in his character writing (like his plots were kinda.... this is the guy who wrote tenth doctor floating jesus... his best episodes imo at least were always some sort of character study. like midnight or waters of mars) and by bypassing all the growth and healing he's robbing us as the audience to see him do something he's good at with the main character of his own show
B - the doctor is still mentally fucked come season 14, possibly in a different way or about different things. personally i think this is far more likely just because this is the aspect of writing i think rtd is best at and i think he'll try to play to his strengths. his work in the in between years has also been highly character focused like its a sin or years and years and character arcs where the character is completely fine and basically just got done getting therapy that cured them of everything aren't really a thing because that would be really boring. and in this case it would be a stupid writing decision to do a bigeneration because it's pretty much just pointless and didn't even affect the character. if this is what ends up happening i would interpret ncuti's i'm fine because you fixed yourself thing to basically a bootstrap paradox where he remembers himself saying all this stuff so he just says it again to convince david's doctor to stay on earth and chill out for a bit.
basically i think it's a bad writing decision because either it's something that doesn't affect the one character who should be affected by it or because all the interesting stuff just happens off screen. i really can't think of a third way this can go. personality changes and ignoring shit from the past incarnation are completely warranted with a new regeneration and a showrunner switch-over so i don't see why bigeneration was necessary from that perspective. moffat pretty much ignored all of ten's issues writing eleven apart from him getting upset like one time when billie piper's promo photo showed up in that hitler episode when he was talking to the tardis and i don't think that's a weakness of moffat's time as showrunner. chibnall similarly ignored stuff specific to twelve like losing river or bill or clara with thirteen and of all the weaknesses his era has, this isn't one of them at all. if rtd really wanted, he could just have david regenerate into ncuti and then just ignore all that other shit that just happened and only brought it up in like one offhand conversation if ever and it would've been fine. he did the same thing with that whole the doctor was omega thing the showrunners in the 80s were building up to and the doctor being half human thing from the movie as well it's not like it's a new concept to ignore shit other doctor who showrunners have set up that's practically a doctor who tradition
personally i'll be doing the same thing i always do with doctor who lore i don't like and just ignore it. it's not canon to me. and like you said it didn't affect my enjoyment of a church on ruby road either. in a way it's a good thing how brief and unexplained bigeneration was because i have to write very little fanfiction in my head to erase it from the version of doctor who that i keep in my brain. it was way harder when i had to try to rewrite all of season 6 in my head without the river = amy and rory's kid thing
First Lol
The Timeless Child twist and Bi-generation are terrible additions to the canon in my opinion. It makes the doctor completely OP and they feel like very left-field changes that cheapen the storytelling. If stuff like this can just be added at whim, it makes it harder to feel any tension in future stories. I preferred it when The Doctor was just another time lord with the standard 12 regenerations
I agree with TTC thing but as long as bigeneration doesn't happen again I think its alright. It was mainly done for plot reasons.
Honestly the whole Bi-generation thing just feels like a "We did it cause it was never done before" and i hate to sound like a "Doctor Who is dead" person, cause I'm not and it's not.
But i do feel like this will be the beginning of the show's downfall if we get more stuff like that.
Like the show is trying to reach out to more viewers around the world and I'm starting to think the show is running before walking.
I think Doctor Who needs to be a more simpler show in this new age.
You can't make sense of it, because it's quite simply, a terrible terrible idea.
Sounds complete rubbish 😂
I still wanna know why (in universe) that the Doctor’s clothes regenerated in The Power of the Doctor
This plot point still annoys me, especially since it was revealed there was no outside interference behind the Fourteenth Doctor’s face like many theorised back in 2022. But it is worth acknowledging that there is a narrative precedent for this in the show since the Second Doctor emerged in his shirt and bow tie under the First Doctor’s cloak in The Power of the Daleks. This was also never given an in-universe explanation since the rules of regeneration weren’t established at that point.