Why is Consciousness Baffling? | Episode 401 | Closer To Truth
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- How does consciousness weave its magical web of inner awareness-appreciating music, enjoying art, feeling love? Even when all mental functions may be explained, the great mystery-what it "feels like" inside-will likely remain. Featuring interviews with Charles Tart, Roger Walsh, Raymond Kurzweil, Hubert Dreyfus, Alva Noë, Henry Stapp, and George Lakoff.
Season 4, Episode 1 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#Philosophy #Consciousness
If you read this, thank you for tackling these questions and recording it free for the public.
You're welcome. Now gimme dolla.
@@johndickerdown9225 🤣🤣🤣
Agree. Thank you, RLK.
Xyzzy y
John Dickerdown has ya da
There is no irony more intense than brain activity not understanding how it can manifest it’s own activity.
I may sound ironical but the reality is Anything other than brains don’t understand anything at all. A Brain that understanding little aspects of it’s activity is amazing
we know how brains manifest activity in the sense of neuroplasticity or how certain parts are responsible for sight, taste, smell, sensation etc but a brain doesn't manifest it's own consciousness - it facilitates and controls it - ie correlation..NOT causation. You can know everything there is to know about the brain and yet not how consciousness emerges from matter. It doesn't emerge from matter, it is received into the matter. The brain is like the radio..the consciousness is like the music..etc. please don't start throwing materialist rhetoric at me because it's incorrect and flawed. some of the most intelligent thinkers on this planet do not accept brain = consciousness. they accept consciousness = brain.
Well said Bassotronics
Another cool thought is that consciousness is everywhere and the brain is the radio designed to capture it.
assuming the brain is doing the job, that is.
The music to Closer to truth is like a Hitchcock thriller..love it.
science will never "find" consciousness. it's like having a character in a movie searching for the screen on which he appears to be.
Why not, would be a very interesting movie ;-)
@@RickB500 hahah, it already is and some of them say they have it. a lot of movies are happening simultaneously (:
Well, that assumes the consciousness to be at the very least physically exterior to not only body, but also to the perceptible world, if not functionally exterior. And at least the first part is theoretically feasible to prove - if it is the case - by giving an account to each possible physiological effect in the body and demonstrating that it is substantially (or better essentially) differentiated from any possible perceptible correlate of subjective experience qua perceived through an external inquiry.
@@DKOILive i appreciate your answer but i honestly don't get it (not native language + don't know what you're aiming at exactly). my statement was metaphorical due to my own research combined with personal experience of non duality. i don't believe short comments like these are the place to give arguments for a topic so complex. cheers
It is like the character in a movie trying to find the audience.
This man has one of the best jobs in the world. I would pay all the money I have to be able to talk to all these people and ask them questions. Thank you very much for your work, I really appreciate the information that you put on CZcams for free.
Robert is an awarded business economics advisor for China - multimillionare. This is his wonderful hobby.
Are you envious?
@@tracemiller9628 yes i am?
You can!
Ok. i'll give you my info. Send me your money. I'll put the rest together.
It's baffling because we are the thing we're looking for :) You are it! In the same way, you can't bite your own teeth. You are not the body and mind, they are localised as contents of consciousness. Consciousness is non-localised which is the real you. The problem Robert is having is that when he's critiquing Roger Walsh, he's doing it from a separate subject-object standpoint. You can't get there from here! Everything you think you know has to be dropped completely, including you the person before you can even begin to really understand the mind.
We need to change our most basic assumptions and the very foundation from which we are looking. Maybe then, some progress can be made.
But ultimately Charlie Tart is right, consciousness will always remain a mystery. But the best thing you can do is find out for yourself what you really are, with self-enquiry and meditation.
excellent points. i have a lot of respect for charles tart.
Love the analogy "you can't bite your own teeth" it has a certain zen quality to it. *grinds my teeth*.
@@angelinarobert622 Paul has obviously never seen me attacking some lobster claws!
nicely put
it's only baffling to people who want it to be baffling. organisms have brains so what.
Dear Dr. Kuhn. I very much enjoy your Closer to Truth series. It is high quality, enriching and educational information presented by a smart and engaging host. I do find your explorations of consciousness, and the relation between mind, soul and the brain, somewhat hemmed-in by an overly materialistic orthodoxy at times. You go to the same kind of thinkers, you're going to receive the same kind of thoughts and scientific and philosophical information you've gotten thus far that has proven inadequate.That is why I commend you for interviewing Charles Tart and others who's viewpoint challenges the materialist orthodoxy. Whilst you remain skeptical, you nonetheless contemplated the possibility that someone who you're not in philosophical agreement mayhap knew something you didn't and could help you get some answers, you've become more open-minded as a result and more information can get to you. Good job.
My Best Favorite Program . It helps to understand the Nature and the Evolution of the Life in Universe .
To producers and crew, much appreciated, thank you.
I was impressed by Alva Noe’s perspective of immaterial mind.
The mind/consciousness is immaterial because we don't perceive them through our outer senses. The physical world is a concept we have of what we perceive through our outer senses whereas consciousness is perceived from within. The problem is that we try to understand our inner with concepts we have of our outer world.
@@bobs182 I agree. That IS a problem!
My appreciation for this channel and for Lawrence and his commitment to this vast pursuit transcends admiration and borders on genuine, unconditional love.
I asked my science teacher what conciseness is.
He told me to stop asking stupid questions..
Now that's a bad teacher.
Dwl 😅😅
You wrote concise but I think that you meant consciousness. Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
@@jeffforsythe9514I do not mean to be rude. I do wish to be concise. So, WTF is falundafa?
Reality is consciousness experiencing itself infinitely
There is no evidence of consciousness occurring in anything other than a brain. There is no evidence for infinities but potential infinities don’t seem impossible.
@@rotorblade9508 Then who is perceiving the brain? From what location? Can’t be the brain because I’m observing that. So..........Erm?
@@rotorblade9508
No one has ever observed consciousness without a brain and equally no one has ever observed a brain without consciousness, that is without first being a conscious observer. It’s like the chicken or the egg scenario.
Under materialist premises, phenomenal consciousness cannot have been favoured by natural selection. Indeed, it shouldn’t exist at all; we should all be unconscious zombies, going about our business in exactly the same way we actually do, but without an accompanying inner life. If evolution is true which we have every reason to believe is the case our very sentience contradicts materialism. The problem is that...”we cannot empirically observe matter outside and independent of mind, for we are forever locked in mind. All we can observe are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived.” (Bernardo Kastrup)
Well said! All the best to you and your family and keep safe during this Corona virus crisis ❤️
Ray Kurzweil has it right in my opinion, *apparently* conscious beings will inevitably be made out of non organic matter. But we'd never be able to prove they are conscious or they are not. As a medical student I dissected a human brain, studied neuroscience and have since studied AI and deep learning and I really don't see why this isn't achievable. Consciousness surely just emerges from the embodied neural (whether organic or not) system. Well made point made by George Lakoff towards the end about consciousness or the kind of sensations manifested depend on the capacities of the body. Nothing spooky (quantum mechanics/spirituality) here! I would almost contend that conscious doesn't really exist and doesn't need to.
What a brilliant show. What a brilliant episode. Beautifully done. Thank you for creating this and sharing it with the world.
Just wanted to thank you. I've learned more from your show than I did in college. If we have to be locked down, I'm glad to be learning such interesting things.
Its that sheepy attitude towards being locked down that'll lead to you being totally controlled. Thanks alot sheep.
Falun Dafa
Loving the shows - and love the way you speak so clearly and concisely about this incredibly intricate topic. Thanks
Everything is explained by Falun dafa
Consciousness is the fruit of all the input that our bodies received during our experience of life! When our body passes from life to death, our Consciousness is released back to the Creator, the universe, and eternity!
What great questions! ❤️👍
I'm not a scientist, though I started down that path in college. I spent time studying the brain and artificial intelligence. In planning out visions of what could possibly done in a computer, I came across the same questions being asked here. I realized that I could in time simulate just about anything that the brain does, emotions, memories, feelings. Yet they would just be simulations. One gear turning another in a complex array of gears that would appear to be conscious, yet... it would at it's core just be a mesh of causes and effects and there still wouldn't be anything "experiencing" the simulated emotions, memories and feelings. I think that emotions, feelings and memories are complex senses, just like sight, touch and sound. Thus they can be affected chemically or physically. But you still can't explain or affect the part of a person that experiences those things.
I don't think we need to explain "who" is "experiencing" those things. I think the act of experiencing is just something that arises out of all those complex interactions. Consciousness is reaction to stimuli. There is no difference between consciousness and simulation of consciousness.
@@Tom_Quixote , agreed! And Indeed!🙂
How can you tell simulations can’t create conscious experiences?
@@Tom_Quixote The thing is, you can't tell if a simulation of consciousness is being experienced the same way as you experience it. You can make a computer react to something. For example Siri on the Iphone. You can say something mean, and she might respond with "Now I'm sad". Siri is displaying sadness, but as far as we know she doesn't actually feel the sadness. That's the difference between simualted consciousness and the real deal. Therefore I would disagree with you - experience is not just a biproduct of all those reactions. Consciousness is also much more than simply experiencing. It's also free will. My consciousness, my free will chose to comment this, I chose to go on youtube. A pc doesn't suddenly choose to do something, unless it's been programmed to do so.
@@simonjohnson3424
Well said! The materialist and the determinists blind devotion to the Gods of automatism condemns their myths to hollowness.
Wow it is so nice to find videos about questions most of us always had ! I’ve been wondering these this and many more abstract things for years , my mom thinks I am going nuts 🤣
bla bla bla
what are the more abstracts things?
Most answers can be found with Falun Dafa
Thanks for this.
HOW STRESS LEVELS ON THE BODY, AND MIND CAN ACTUALLY ENHANCE PRECOGNITIVE / INTUITIVE LEVELS.
I personally have had no choice but to love my fate , after coming from a different country to the USA in 1968 and , realizing a culture shock that immediately placed me in a state of mental , and physical stress , I immediately went into survival mode , and never really left that mode.....
Stress on the human body has different consequences , and or benefits , depending on the individual , and their point of view ......
Throughout my lifetime ( I'm now 63 ) , I have gathered much information about our REM phase of sleep and , our stress levels on our mind and body while we are awake...
The two are interconnected....
My life started this way I was born in 1959 in Northern Italy , at 3 months of age I had a life challenging , and changing experience , I had my first U.F.O. encounter in Northern Italy 1965 , then again , in Southern New Jersey USA 1969 , then again , in Southern New Jersey USA 1972 , then again , in Southern New Jersey 1975 USA , a long lasting paranormal experience in Southern New Jersey USA 1991 , another U.F.O. encounter in N.E. Sicily 1995 , and , another paranormal encounter in Florida's Marco Island USA 2002 , and my last encounter with a light being in Southern New Jersey USA 2018.
The information gathered from these and other encounters is staggering , and I have cataloged it all...
So while some of my materials may be misconstrued as hypothetical in nature , the answers I give are a direct result of my encounters , it's actually information that I've been allowed access to , it's actual factually precognitive/intuitive in nature.
I have discovered that the higher the stress levels on the mind and body during our conscious state , the more precognitive intuitive information we have acces to , in both our awake and asleep phases , this is when we can help others with our acquired information , but only if they're willing to have faith in the words you share with them .
Asleep during our REM ( Rapid Eye Movement ) phase we can acces past , present , and future events.....
Please allow me to give you a personal example ,
I retired as an Armed security officer stationed at a nuclear facility.
I was constantly being challenged with monthly military style drills , so my skill level would be maintained in accordance to state and federal laws....
One day a team member lost it.....mentally and , for some reason dropped his gun belt and decided to come after me and placed me in a choke hold . I looked at him in the eyes and , through my last words made him come to his senses , and he released his grip around my gasping throat....
Supervision had no choice but to send us both home as it was S.O.P. and review the incident on the cameras that recorded the entire incident , it took the one whole week to finally call me back and , upon viewing the evidence and questioning other team members they determined that I was not the aggressor .
I returned to work and resumed my duties....
During the week I was off , I was under a lot of stress about the whole incident .
Every night I would dream that I was driving a car , and at one point would spin out of control and always come close to hitting something but never would...
This dream happened for the entire week I was on Administrative Leave....
Sunday night , the day before I was ordered back to work , my wife decided she wanted a pair of new glasses ,it was raining , in autumn.... and it was already dark , we traveled to the eyeglass place and on the way back took the highway back home...
Here is what happened on the highway , the vehicle started to hydroplane and , backed off the gas , my foot slipped and hit the brake accidentally..sending our vehicle into an out of control spin , in the middle of a four lane highway , I managed to stop the spin , without flipping the car but we were going backwards down a 30 foot sloped embankment , I braced for an impact with the treeline , but nothing happened , I got out looked in the back to see we were mere inches from a very large tree....
We called a tow truck and got winced out but no damage to us or the vehicle . Just like in my reoccurring dream all week long .... this really happened to me.. and my wife was cursing like a sailor at me as we were going backwards down the embankment because even she thought we were done...
Stress on the body and mind brings forth precognitive intuitive information... I am living proof... after that night I never had the dream again...
For a spiritually minded person consciousness is easy to define. It is the limited time we have on this earth to experience and communicate with the unlimited consciousness of the universe
I love the way Ray Kurzweil nails the "consciousness" detector, in just one minute! What he knows, but did not go on to say, is that it applies just as well to everyone you meet.
? What , so solipsism?.
If you say that it ( ‘detector ‘ ) applies to everyone, then does that lead to solipsism? And if so , then the ( only ) problem with that is : you don’t believe it
@@mattkanter1729 No, solipsism is about existence, not consciousness. People generally claim direct experience of their own consciousness (except for those suffering from dissociative disorder). We learn that other people, being people, are having experiences very close to our own, so we grant them "consciousness." At the same time, you can't step outside yourself and look at your own consciousness as you would other people. That makes it feel private and magical. You might suggest an analog of solipsism in which someone believes that he or she, alone, is conscious and everyone else is a philosophical zombie (i.e. just faking it by responding as if conscious). Like solipsism, that position would not be subject to falsification by folks external to the holder, but of course, no one else is going to take it seriously.
consciousness is the universe is everything and everywhere. It is fundamental of the reality, an independent phenomenon, the source and core of the nature and life
"And now, Deep Thoughts..."
Dont operate heavy machinery until you recognize that reality is real.
@@TeaParty1776 im not pretending that I can material out of my own head. I am capable of running machinery, thanks. I am saying that in a deeper level, conciousness is the building block for this universe. Im not saying I can wish away a truck and it would disappear. There is still huge debates on what consciousness and reality even is, amongst scientists and philosophers. I would appreciate constructive criticism rather than simple mockery.
@@DavidMichaelKalman what's your deep thoughts? Or do you only like to make fun of others? If you want to comment on my views, please express your own opinion on this matter. Maybe I learn something from you.
@Jami MB
Well... first of all... your grammar is kind of wrong, missing punctuation and incorrect verb tenses or prepositions, so it makes it hard to understand what you really wanted to say.
Missing words and punctuation: "consciousness is the universe is everything and everywhere".
Correct: "consciousness is the universe, it is everything and everywhere."
Incorrect usage of preposition: "It is fundamental of the reality" --> it means you should continue to say "of what reality" but you probably meant ->
Correct: "It is a fundamental part of reality" or "It is fundamental to reality" .
Incorrect usage of "definite article" or preposition: "the source and core of the nature and life"
Correct: "the source and core of nature and life"
Disclaimer: i'm from EU, not even English, but i've learnt English in school... and i have a hard time understanding what you're trying to say, all the "correct" parts are just my assumptions of what you're trying to say...but maybe you're trying to say other things... i cannot be 100% accurate since i don't know what's going on in your head and what you're trying to actually say.
In regards to the start of your statements: "consciousness is the universe" -> how do you know it is the universe? how can my own mind be the universe? i don't feel ... univers-ish , i'm sorry, but your statements lack some kind of explanation to "why" you think what you think.... do you understand what i'm saying? So as feedback, it would also help to say "why" do you believe that (and the other things you have stated).
All this is required to even start a coherent debate, otherwise, expect the "simple mockery", like you've said, that the internet has to offer.
Awesome piece.
Dear Mr Khune, I hope you can live with yourself knowing you have made the world a better place thanks to your interviews. Mr Khune, I'm going to stick my neck out once more and give you what I think consciousness may be to you and I and everyone and all animals and insects. Bob, I think consciousness is the operating system for each one of us. It's the DOS system, or Java or---you know what I mean. This has to be its role. Something is needed to bring all the systems in the brian together: an operating system. This is consciousness; nothing more; nothing less. But how are we even going to get close to proving it is another thing altogether.
To define consciousness: God(Source) -- definition in the universe(manifestation)
-- light
-- energy
-- sound
-- vibration
These qualities in someway are connected to or are consciousness. From micro to macro, in us and in universe. We're conscious to that which derived from a higher consciousness.
I think human consciousness is a very spiritual acknowledgement first, then mentally, emotionally and with the senses. If we had more senses everything would be very different for us consciously -- so it isn't restricted or limited by the brain.
That's why chakras and meditation, sacred/holy scripture and text, science and philosophy are all crucial for are conscious and to our understanding in consciousness.
Spirit, intuition, emotion, feeling, imagination, knowledge, wisdom, drive, faith all have an effect on our conscious in consciousness.
I think little of the materialists because if all there was is scientific data and description... I just cannot imagine the mentality of needing a fact or description so enabling belief.
Thank God for spirit -- as mysticism & the metaphysical is correlated & revealed through Spirit.
Spirituality, science, divinity -- all is one.
Thanks for sharing this really well done work with us. We are making gigantic progress in defining consciousness and conscious processes, what a time to be alive
"We are making gigantic progress in defining consciousness"
Yeh? '?????????????????????????
Our Consciousness is our soul. " Mind, Will and Emotion " Our body is dead meat without Our consciousness.
How he doesn't laugh in the face of some of these ppl is beyond me. He asks them the right questions though- and they can't answer- so they give us some pre-canned, semi well thought out spiel that really doesn't answer the question or make any practical sense. I think he understands that's sufficient, no need to challenge them directly or insult, you can see how passionate they are- and how bitter they are that no one is pursuing their theories really. It wouldn't take much of a push back from him to get them heated.
The reason consciousness is baffling is easy to understand - we are trying to understand it using a physics which, in the name of objectivity, was specifically designed to exclude it. That may be fine, even necessary, for the purposes of technology, but it is definitely not fine if a complete and unified understanding of the universe is desired.
To quote Roger Penrose: "Whatever consciousness is, it is not computation."
He's wrong. He's also a mathematical platonist.
@@TheNaturalLawInstitute how you can say that he is wrong when we have no idea what consciousness is?
Do you know something we don't?
@@PATRICKJLM Of course we do. We've known for at least the past ten years. The effort of teaching the average person enough neurology so that can they understand it is a bit of work, but I'm producing a course on it, and the research is all out there.
Even a populist like Michio Kaku answers the question.
Kuhn makes a living NOT answering the question of consciousness, and interviewing marginal characters (mostly old folks) and many of whom are intellectually embarrassing (philosophers and theologians) - thereby preserving the supernatural bias in the majority population while satisfying curiosity among both materialists, idealists, and supernaturalists.
Roger Penrose has a particular strength in that he follows einstein and uses mental models in addition to his mathematics. But otherwise, Roger is a mathematical platonist. Most physicists are stuck in what we call 'mathiness' - no mental model.
The research on consciousness is done today by those of us who rely on both neurology and computer science to reproduce it.
In simple terms, consciousness is just the merger of sensation with memory of memory into a competitive set of predictions. Qualia is just a vast parallel hierarchy of variations on embodiment. Consciousness is simple. Most of our brain predicts a continuously updated (revised) world model, then indexes salient experiences as episodes, and predicts candidate episodes from a competition between episodes, and we regulate that function with attention.
When people say consciousness is an illusion that implies an observer that doesn't exist. The only observer is a hierarchy of memory that we perceive as constant, just like we perceive movies as constant.
The root "you" is in the brain stem that's concerned about orientation, homeostasis, and reward-seeking. All the "you" in the sense you know yourself is distributed around the neocortex as memories. The experience of being you is integrated across the brain and organized into the hippocampal region. Qualia is rather trivial to explain from there onward. If you were to ask if other species would experience the same qualia we can only say that their qualia would be understandable if they were at least able to communicate at our level. But that vibrations in the universe whether through solids, gasses, space, and from subsonic to sonic to electromagnetic, would be the same. Some people see impossible colors even today. Some are color blind. A different creature might experience time differently (faster or slower), or instead of having two hemispheres might have, four, or six, or eight (or more) - and that would be the only substantive difference. But to ACT in the real world generates demand for convergence on similar range of senses and qualia.
@@TheNaturalLawInstitute I won't read all your carpet, I will just repeat that we have no idea how consciousness is working.
As for Michio Kaku, in contrast to Roger Penrose, he doesn't have a Nobel...
Thank you for free sharing knowledge and philosophy… its a great public service to education.
I appreciate this channel. I thought by the old style production that these videos were older... but I like it.
One of the most fascinating things to me about consciousness is how few human beings appear to have any.
You aren't possibly confusing the root word of 'conscience' with 'conscious ' are you? I'll assume, for sake of discussion, that you are not (and did not). Interesting Case:
There was a rather tragic news story about a kid who had killed his mother and father with an axe or hatchet, and yet before the latter died, he woke up, got up and went downstairs, walked outside and got the newspaper, and then proceeded to make and eat his breakfast, all while dying from an axe wound to the skull. It was a very tricky (and messy) puzzle for investigators to piece together what had occurred: apparently, the conscious portion of his brain was able to function (and not question the horror) after such an attack. - j q t -
LoL
Not exactly, but 99% of people are fast asleep. Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
It is because they have forgotten how to think. The brain is just fat and nerves, it does not think. It is like the cockpit of an aircraft, while the one who is the pilot is the soul, you, you are a soul........falun dafa
One of the things making consciousness so baffling, is that it doesn't seem like something contingent, or just empirical, that simply arose as an accident. Consciousness seems more like one of the a priori categories of reason itself, an intrinsically necessary thing, that could never have not existed. For example, one of the building block concepts that is central to all reasoning is the idea of "being": existence. X exists or it doesn't. It was the bedrock of Aristotle's analysis of the principles of formal deductive logic. Yet, the very idea of "being" seems to automatically suggest this other possibility: X knowing that X exists (i.e., consciousness).
excellent points.
Well said! Consciousness is simple and so general like reality and the laws of physics it’s unassailable and irreducible to matter as it is fundamental to reality and life. It’s only a difficult question if you assume a materialistic paradigm.
Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
Consciousness is a product of isness. You cannot stand under it. It IS…
Thank you for this excellent introductory series.
Just the very first step....................falundafa
Thank you Dr.
The role of the observer collapsing the wave function by choosing "which-path information" in quantum mechanics suggests consciousness is a vital ingredient.
That paradigm suggests that prior to animals evolving consciousness nothing happened....?
I suggest that 2+2=5.
What you are suggesting Katherine is what many physicists INCLUDING luminaries use to think..The idea that Consciousness is important in quantum decoherence has recently been falsified, but this is not widely known..The history of the postulate certainly deserves respect..Peace.
It's not observation per se that collapses the wave function but interaction. Observation is not passive as it necessitates the interaction of photons with a photoreceptor. Kinetic energy is centrifugal in nature so it spreads out, whereas potential energy is centripetal and so it collapses inwards. The distinction between the two is determined by the amount of resistance the energy encounters.
@@milesfurnell ANYTIME two or more particles interact, their wave function collapses..Observers are inconsequential..
I am always fascinated about languages and how they came about in the first place and who gave its grammatical structure and how our brain processes it. Are consciousness and language related because whatever we imagine/think can be expressed in words. In my opinion we can understand consciousness when we build and test one. With all the science we have now let the scientists build a living thing of any kind. Maybe the reason that many people reject intelligent creation is because we are intelligent and cannot create any living thing that grows on its own. Finally, our ancestors already figures out consciousness and they called it spirit or soul.
"[W]hatever we imagine/think can be expressed in words" is not strictly true though, is it? We even have words for this phenomenon: the ineffable, the numinous, etc. In other words: that which cannot be expressed using words. That's why we have poets, creative thinkers who try to express the qualia of existence in a way that we can understand - beyond the mere meaning of the words themselves. Words alone can never express the feelings aroused when listening to music, for example, or when looking at a painting; they fail completely at this seemingly simple task. I cannot tell you ever what it tastes like to drink an espresso to me, no matter how many words I use or which language I choose to do so. We all agree it's a fascinating subject and videos like this are stimulating and endlessly interesting!
Buddhist philosophy has both an exhaustive analysis of the nature of consciousness as well has techniques to experience that nature. I have enjoyed many of Professor Kuhn's broadcasts and still wonder why he has not investigated these avenues of knowledge. Whatever the case, no answer to this question would fit in a one hour time frame.
Consciousness comes from another dimension we are unaware of. We were designed and given life by a higher intelligence.😊
What if our material physical brain acts like an antenna to receive information from our consciousness which is like a wifi router which is not part of our physical body.
The brain is like the cockpit of an airplane while the pilot is the soul. Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
Consciousness is baffling because in order to figure out the thing we're trying figure out, the thing we need to use to figure out what that thing is, is the very thing that we're trying to figure out! So it twists into itself until we're a little ball curled up in the corner crying inconsolably!
Well stated 😁✌
It is like trying to lift yourself up by pulling on your own bootstraps.
There is something in Taoism that says something rather similar, not sure if it is in the "Tao Te CHING"the Chinese book on Nature's Way of Natural Virtue or Eva Wong's "Being Taoist" a translation of a collection of Taoist teachings
Stop crying. Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
Thank you for providing such interesting insights
Wonderful. Great choice of interview subjects too.
When we as a species cannot even define consciousness how can we expect to understand it. It is still fascinating to ponder about.
Consciousness is part of mans power of definition. Man is immediately conscious of consciousness. It doesnt need a definition.
@@TeaParty1776 well it does need and it has a scietific one.
Consciousness is the ability to be aware of environmental and organic stimuli when our Brain's Central Lateral Thalamus is aroused.
How can we define something that is seemingly limitless.
What would mans conscious be like without the senses. What would mans conscious be like with 10 extra senses.
So really what is consciousness even?
We acknowledge science from our awareness which pertains to are senses.
There's probably more but we just don't have the abilities to detect.
Consciousness i think is endless possibilities or infinite possibilities. To define is to categorize, whereas consciosness is the very force of limitless thought and manifestation.
That's why I consider God as being definition in the universe.
@@S3RAVA3LM what aspect of our conscious brain states are limitless and how that affects our definitions???
How do you verify this quality (limitless).?
Our Conscious states is how we process the stimuli provided by our sensory system.
Again Consciousness is our ability to be aware of all those stimuli, through the arousal of the Central Lateral Thalamus of our brain.
Yes our ability to be conscious and able to direct our attention to stimuli also allows us to be aware of science and use it's methodologies to investigate the mechanisms responsible for this mind property.
What exactly is your point...one huge argument from ignorance fallacy?
Well your statement (there's probably more but...) proves me right, you are making a fallacious argument.
I don't know what "endless or infinite possibilities" are those but Consciousness is just the abstract concept of the ability of our brain to display Conscious states enabling us to be aware of the environment, our thoughts and feelings. I really don't know how you can explain or prove such a vague generalization!
What on earth having "limitless thoughts" means and has to do with the scientific definition of a biological phenomenon of agents with brains being able to reflect consciously on their thoughts, feelings and stimuli registered by their sensory system???
How one earth can you categorizing Consciousness as a "force"...while rejecting that same thing from science. What qualities of the phenomenon have you quantified and in which scale that allows you to declare it " a force"???
Lastly how a superstitious concept like "god" has to do with a biological ability?
Can I ask your age?
@@S3RAVA3LM Your ideas are not abstracted from concretes. They refer to nothing.
Diseases were baffling too, 150 years ago. Not to mention radiowaves for which we didn't have any clue that they are all over. Sooner or later we will have another great discovery. The history of physics isn't over.
...faith
And to think that people like Einstein lived just a short time ago. I happen to think that just as you mentioned radio waves, there is something else similar in nature of which we aren’t aware yet. Something so simple in nature that when discovered it will make us wonder why it took us so long to discover it.
I also believe that the brain has the capacity and ability to connect to some of these yet undiscovered concepts.
The history is an illusion. Time doesn't pass as we feel it.
@@justdev8965 What do you mean?
@@justdev8965 you've said too much 🤫
We make progress by explaining what consciousness is NOT!
I’m with you Dr. Kuhn! I watch all of these because I’m intensely interested in the matter , but as you said, “everybody is so sure except me”. All you seem to get are fuzzy non-answers! From people who don’t appear to even see the problem to others that just obfuscate it further. The only thing I’ve ever seen that is the **tiniest** step in the right direction is what Joscha Bach is saying, but even then in my opinion it’s only the first step.
The idea is that just as color is purely perceptual, everything else is too. Our conscious mind is only one part of a greater simulation created by our own brain to understand what’s going on. We are conscious within the simulation the brain has created. The problem is changed to asking how can an agent appear to be conscious within a simulation? What does that even mean? I have no idea but it feels like it is a better foundation on which to build.
Read Julian Jaynes "Origin of Consciousness.."
Subjective consciousness is the core of everything which would never become an observable phenomena however hard one goes on to find it in other human beings, or in the inanimate cosmos.
I attended a talk by an expert years ago. Someone asked what consciousness was. The answer give was "I dunno, I guess it's what it feels like to have a cerebral cortex". Sort of stuck with me...
Or , according to neuroscience, it's how it feels when our central Lateral Thalamus is aroused...
The brain is just a bunch of fat and it is like the cockpit of an aircraft and the pilot is the soul. Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
This is great stuff. Thanks!
The mystery is staring us in the face. I am not a physicist but I have this knowledge for 34 years
Could consciousness be a personal energy wave, that which animates, inspires and interacts?
Could be three waves: Dog, son and holy cow.
Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
I don't think a computer will ever get conscious. Consciousness is not a computation. It would be like simulating a black hole on a computer and expecting to get gravity out of it :-)
I’m grateful for these videos and the deep questions they pose to the top minds in the English-speaking world.
The English-speaking world? This video is child's play compared to Falun Dafa
Thanks I learned a lot from your work.
You can't understand mind by studying the brain. You have to study mind to understand mind
Should've interviewed Stuart Hameroff or Sir Roger Penrose after the second-to-last speaker
Should’ve interviewed a pourer of ayahuasca from the Peruvian fucking jungle...
When you want to learn about quantum mechanics you interview a physicist. When you want to learn about consciousness you ask a neuroscientist...
@@nickolasgaspar9660 You must have either not watched the video in its entirety or didn't agree with Kuhn's choice in picking speakers then, because there is clearly an apparent overlap of quantum mechanics, neuroscience, and consciousness in terms of the thought processes of at least one of these thinkers. I suggested the anesthesiologist-physicist duo because they infer the neuronal microtubules are that bridge that binds quantum mechanical processes with the emergence of consciousness. Personally, I think that's bunk but it would've flowed well given the type of philosophical terrain this episode and channel at large is about.
@@sedenions oh...the classic "Consciousness sounds mysterious, QM is mysterious thus Consciousness is quantum mechanical.
Yes I am aware of Hamerroff's "theory" but it's like saying quantum particles can display far more advanced properties than the kinetic ones described by our current Scientific Paradigm.
Sure I can see a role of a Quantum mechanism within a bigger biological process, like quantum biology theorizes for the phenomenon of photosynthesis, but to assume advanced properties being displayed by fundamental particles ...that is against all our Scientific observations on how nature produces advanced properties. Sorry but such an extraordinary claim first need to prove our current paradigm wrong before it is proposed as a hypothesis of Cognitive science.
@@nickolasgaspar9660 The brain activity is electical pulses and chemical reactions. Both are working on level of electron. This is the quantum level. Not only that but those electrons constitute the brain itself. On a sence the brain and it's activity is the same thing.
Excellent. A fecund intellectually productive discourse on an esoteric topic
Think you for sharing these interesting thoughts. It would be awesome if you would release the full lengths interviews with all the people in this video! The video gives a good overview of the different opinions but barely scratches the surface of the individual views.
Animals have consciousness too.
They feel, love, experience things.
Humans are not the only ones that can experience consciousness.
Exactly. What’s the smallest unit of consciousness? Can a computer replicate THAT?
@@hershchat Computers in simulated Quantum Neural Circuits that replicate the network of a human brain, with sufficient "training data" and "test data" may experience consciousness.
But it would also require enormous amounts of sensors to experience other things or it would require some direct inputs to neurons. We don't exactly need an organic network that uses brain chemicals since it can be simulated for inputs.
@@tsresc respectfully, I don’t agree. When you say they experience consciousness, WHO is doing the experiencing? A report of an event is not the event. All conjecture that replicating consciousness is a computational task is misplaced, because consciousness is not a problem solving algorithm of sufficient complexity. It is “awareness of oneself”. It is essentially non computational. It is also non sensory. Consciousness is how we know the states of the mind. Mind is how we know the states of the sensors.
Some do it more or less. For sure! (I have worked with primates, other than man ;-)
But I have never met just one animal, who discusses here with us, what consciousness is and how they experience it. There are different steps on reflections. Maybe ours is not the last or the highest ;-)
Yh definitely it's simply becoz there is nothing through which mind of an animal can communicate its consciousness to ours
I think we have to first understand that our sensor for emotion is responsible for consciousness, love, fear, hate and other, and that all of them are not the same in every human being.
As an example let's imagine, we are a group of people that want to hang a big mirror on the wall of a hall, so that we can see us all together like in a photograph.
But, we drop the mirror and it breaks to pieces. Now we can't see each other all together as one unit. Each one picks a piece of mirror and can still see himself and maybe one or two others but not all complete from head to foot. Meaning, we all have different conscious experiences from our point of view. Same goes for love, and fear. If we could see ourselves as a whole, we could recognize all details of importance in the unified picture, but since the mirror as a whole is missing, we can only look at each one individually and try to imagine all together but without you, cause you are the observer.
This type of broken mirror is what affects each and everyone's emotional experiences.
The question is, how to manage a mirror on the wall for future generations to see themselves from a unified point of view, and a correction in the emotions.
I love listening to and watching your program. I have only been knowledgeable of your work for a few months, but I am totally enthralled. I enjoy the content and the long 26-minute full programs are excellently produced! Congratulations on your wonderful insights. I have always wondered why God put us here if God is omnipresent he knows where we are heading, with no free will, he would place us where we belong, heaven or otherwise. Why waste time if you already know. So what is our purpose for being?
God put us here so that we have one last chance to redeem ourselves. He gave us free will and we made the mistake of choosing to play in the mud instead of seeking the Divine.............falundafa
Will the real Slim Shady, please stand up
Vlad Albata What do you mean by that?
@@rareone5041 czcams.com/video/eJO5HU_7_1w/video.html
What if a person for whatever reason, is born without any senses (sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste)
How would that person be able to formulate a sense of self, of being, of perspective and would that person, without these inputs and references be able to develop consciousness?
That is one question I have tried to think about as well. Basically, if you remove all of the things that we already know and can observer in the brain, what is left? By removing what we know, could be have a "negative image" that at least gives us an outline of what we don't understand?
If consciousness is that which experiences what goes on in the brain, and you remove from consciousness everything which it can experience, what can be left?
Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
So many smart people without a clue. Brilliant 😀.
Consciousness is God-given. Purposefully so.
Materialists have never lived their theory
Ummmmm I think I have an idea of what you are cleverly trying to say. Please fill in the rest.
Where do people who believe consciousness is more than brain think consciousness comes from then? And how does it get so intricately connected to the neurons and neuronal structure of our brain if not through evolution? It honestly seems the only thing these theorist have to support their ideas is how "weird" and "mysterious" and "amazing" it is that the environment we live in can light up as perceptions in our minds.
I've yet to hear even one testable hypothesis or theory of how consciousness arrives in the world if not through biology. Anyone?
@Long Castle well said. Why is consciousness seen as something fundamentally different from, say, vision? Occam's Razor points to it being just another biological adaptation in a specific evolutionary niche. Just because it's amazing doesn't make it paranormal. All of life is amazing, but it's all rooted in biology.
The other day, on one of your shorts, someone made a great comment; "please put a note telling us where an episode was filmed". Great comment and I agree, at times you say where you are, others not and all are beautiful settings.
Below that there was another comment, nearly snide and certainly with more than a wee dismissive. His comment was essentially; "put time stamps, implying dismissive arrogance, then commented on "recycling" old content. It is always fascinating to learn so much from someone's comments, and sometimes rather sad. This person clearly displayed a lack of depth, willingness, and flexibility of mind. That is sad.
If we are actually open minded and searching for the truth we are compelled to observe, listen, ponder.. hopefully let it float about in one's mind, fade away and, again, hopefully float back to the forefront of our minds either exactly as heard or tuned and swirled about in a way to either better understand or see a new pattern.
Refusal to do so, and to even comment with a negative undertone speaks of a rigid mind and of arrogance that is truly limited. As the saying goes "his pathways are burned in".
Why do we read the old masters? Why do we study them, ponder them? Why is it that by doing so we learn things... sometimes they were right, sometimes wrong, sometimes captive of their times and instruments... yet without studying all forms of 'yesterday' one is not only blind to today, but near-on useless in the quest for tomorrow.
Robert, at times I agree, or disagree, or partially agree with your perspective or those of your guests, but your effort is clearly commendable and not easy. Your efforts are appreciated, thank you. mjb
best episode!! great great
"Trying to find consciousness in the brain is like trying to find music within the radio console"
I rest my case.
It is certainly an interesting theory - that my consciousness is something beyond the brain/mind, but that my mind is tuned to a frequency that allows my consciousness a place of resonance.
@@Quidisi spot on 100%...and those who have out of body experiences or near death experiences get confirmation of this...the brain as AMAZING as it is actually limits our consciousness in many ways. ONLY when the brain shuts down is consciousness able to roam free without limitations. In other words.."Non-local consciousness".
@@Quidisi Man is directly, immediately, conscious of his consciousness of reality. The only mystery is why materialism is scientifically respectable 2400 years after Aristotle refuted it.
@@TeaParty1776 materialism is not scientifically respectable! it's a burden upon scientific thinking as it is very much flawed.
As Alva Noë said with the coins and their value!
Physics will never explain the deeper philosophical questions. At most, it will discover or establish physical correlates to their answers.
Summarization from Robert is what I like here. All the interviewees do not impres me.
The skill he takes only useful and needed.
But all those are wrong addresses...
Ancient India is the direction we need to seek, maybe Vedas.
Of these thinkers, George makes most sense. Why consciousness have to be one thing? It could be a collection of parts that acts as thought it’s one. The brain is that oneness organ of the body, what’s is the organ to the brain? That means it requires a region of brain structure that put all this information together to achieve an illusion of consciousness. Let’s focus on the brain area without it consciousness cease to exist instead of wandering around unverifiable ideas, like pan consciousness and collapse of [...] wave functions, that lead to no where.
Sometimes I wonder if only the Universe is conscious, and we are just deluded empty vessels, being permeated and used by it to feel.
That's what all the eastern religions believe, and me too.
But to explain and justificate this is much more difficult than to explain human or even animals consciousness. This is a region of believe!
@@snoutysnouterson But this is just a believe and can't answer the question who? (or why?)
@@RickB500 Yes it's just a beliefe as it hasn't been proven to me.
I only said it was my belief, it doesnt answer any questions, i did not say it did. But i believe its true due to several seasons.
You say questions like who or why? What do you mean who? What do you mean why? I think you mean how does conciousness happen, is that right? There are possible explanations, but they aren't testable by science as far as i know.
This beliefe doesn't answers any questions, i just think its the truth.
I like to listen to people's opinions about consciousness, they are all very interesting to me. And i also believe that consciousness can't be explained.
We feel advanced as a species, but the truth is that we are really only just starting to understand the universe, our science is in its infancy, our knowledge of reality is incredibly limited. We have a long long way to go to understand most things in the universe, we have some idea about many things, but nobody has any idea at all what conciousness is. So its not going to be understood in our lifetime i don't think.
Gaiest comment
Alan Watts has entered the chat...
It is like trying to define TAOISM. or what is beyond the notes in music. It is everything,and all, at once.
Notes are called keys. We as humans, exist within the realm of matter made up of the crudest particles of matter, cells, just like prisons are made of cells. We all need a great teacher to unlock the door.............falundafa
Thank you for the great content you upload to your channel, Mr Kuhn. Really invaluable interviews on interesting and hot topics.
As for the topic at hand (consciousness), after your interview with Alva Noë I should have thought you would (finally) give up a "representational" stance. If you think about phenomenal (first-person) consciousness as involvement in the world (A. Noë), the immediate consequence is that there is no need for any kind of "representation" in our minds/brains or elsewhere (not even "in the world"). A "representation" ("pictures", "movies" etc.) is only a wrong metaphor we tend to use which ultimately baffles us because we are then triggered to ask ourselves "How is it produced? How does it happen?": wrong questions.
Phenomenal consciousness does not happen and it is not produced (by brains, neurons, bodies etc.): it's not a "thing"; it's an action implying behaviour and involvement. When a living creature (a Darwin machine) exhibits behaviour (involvement in the world), well that's an instance of consciousness. Consciousness is the actions allowing living creatures to access objects in the world in order to use them for their evolutionary needs.
That's my two cents.
Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
I don't think the brain creates consciousness
I agree, but would you claim, that there can be any consciousness without living brains?
@@RickB500 yes, I think so. I think consciousness is not found within the body. The body, for lack of a better analogy is an antenna that connects us to consciousness. All living things connect to it but dependant upon their "antenna's" complexity determines the strength of connection and perception to and of conciousnesses. Consciousness permeates all matter and shapes it together. I think of consciousness also governing time dilation as it pertains to gravity warping time itself. Nothing is outside of consciousness as it is the fundamental to existence.
@@AtypicalPaul
Well said!
Why is Consciousness Baffling?
Because materialism is wrong.
Love your podcast , suggestions DMT
Perceptions of Love, or Hate, Acceptance ,or Rejection,Sadness or Joy
Dedication to reach a goal in life.
But most of all awareness of our Death .
No computer in the world, will ever be able to (experience) accomplish.
Consciousness is baffling since nothing material can produce it. In fact consciousness produces all material.
Well said! Consciousness is concrete, unassailable and irreducible to matter because like the laws of physics it is fundamental to reality. The fact is that...”we cannot empirically observe matter outside and independent of mind, for we are forever locked in mind. All we can observe e are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived.” (Bernardo Kastrup)
Is it hypocrisy? god of the gaps is now science of the gaps
and unevidenced faith in science
George Lakoff needs to revisit Spinoza.
Amazing this Alva's reasoning. Neuroscience has a too limited paradigm, despite all evidences.
"Why is Consciousness Baffling?"
Because, to you, it is _unknown._
@Andreaz-64 Conscious of what? I think most believe that when one says "consciousness" in this regard they believe it is an awareness of reality. So, consciousness is an awareness of the truth and reality. And if you meant something else, then apologies.
St Mannew / "Conscious" of yourself.
It means full awareness.
Some animals are not fully aware ; when they look in a mirror they don't recognize themselves but they are aware of some reality around themselves in order to survive.
@Andreaz-64 Only to the non ESP individuals is ESP a "pretend" thing.
The planet has had multiple spiritual masters -- illuminated beings with special knowledge(light) -- which the world hated because they had not the spirit so to understand.
What the Ancients left us is "special knowledge".
We can create pure artificial conscious machine. Even today if we want. We have the knowledge to do it.
Stop begging for information.
We're just informing the people that we have the knowledge to do it.
I don't give a damn about you.
I don't write here for square heads.
The color analogy is great. Somehow I feel the existence of everything is just an illusion reflected in my brain, maybe including the existence of my brain itself at all.
I would have been happier if the whole video was hubert dreyfus since he was the only one saying something I haven't heard before.
As per the discussions it reveals that consciousness, Mind, Life, Thoughts and feelings are one and same. Because thoughts give rise to feelings and feelings also gives rise to thoughts.
Indeed thank you for your generosity in sharing (for free mostly to us) you thoughts, experience, thoughts of others & the great footage acquired in the process. I do hope you are further along in your journey than you present. The physical world is an avatar experience. My avatar in a computer game is not me. My consciousness is me not my physical body nor my brain. The brain & the body are just a tool to experience this universe. Buckle up when the I AM takes it to the HNL!
Consciousness, the soul, dwells in this realm which is made of the crudest particles of matter, cells. What irony, prisons are also made of cells. The wonderful practice Falun Dafa holds all the keys to all the doors.
Awareness is the ONLY constant of ALL experience what could be more fundamental to reality than THAT???
Dr. Hawkins explained it very well and showed how to apply it. 😇
‘Consciousness itself is creative.” The essence of Kant’s insights.
Could you elaborate? I'm interested in Kant's ideas but know very little about them.
@@jameshansen8684 I'd recommend Ernst Cassirer, Kant's Life and Thought as a great introduction. Kan't realized that experience is never merely passive but that whatever we receive from the world has to be organized by us into stable experiences. He sought to identify the rules or structures by which any experience has to be organized.
@@timadamson3378 ooo I very much like yes
Consciousness is simply our soul, the part of you reading this right now, so simple, the part looking is the part that one is looking for............falundafa
Consciousness is not emergent, period. It's fundamental. The brain isn't formulating consciousness it is a servant of consciousness. The brain is only fundamental as a tool to allow already existing consciousness to function in this realm.
My own personal experience from a stroke is having to "learn" how to speak and walk again. Herein lies the rub. I already knew I just couldn't do. Simply put, a new part of my brain had to be trained to take on that role of my now somewhat hobbled consciousness.