Robb Stark & Jon Snow in Winterfell (A Song of Ice and Fire)
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- čas přidán 18. 09. 2023
- Backstory on the House Stark kids in ASoIaF / Game of Thrones / HotD
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I think it’s quite nice that Jon thinks of naming his own son Robb, should he ever have one
Just to ruin that, Robb was named after Robert so Jon would indirectly name his son after Robert Baratheon.
Jon would then name his son after the man that killed his father.
Probably overthinking this whole thing but I still decided to write this here.
@@goatlover6312 , it doesn’t really matter, he didn’t know his dad and also his love for Robb would probably outweigh his hatred for Robert Baratheon if any develops at all
@@billychops1280 As I said, it’s just me overthinking things.
@@goatlover6312 Rhaegaar is not Jon's father. He's the son of Ned and Ashara.
@@jasonvazquez8652bro Jon is the son of Rhaegar and lyanna it's hinted through out the books, I don't even think it's within Ned's character to sleep with a girl before marriage
One of the best brothers in fiction! Really hope jon survives in the books
@@Darius-_ Whats annoying is subjective no?
@@Darius-_ How exactly? Genuine question, as even if she's killed it won't get rid of magic in the series. Is her magic somehow more egregious than all the other forms of magic that are at work in the story?
@@Darius-_
Terrible take. The ending of the show failed partially because of the removal of magical aspects of the world.
yeah, the love between Jamie and Tyrion is also touching. Actually I think these two relationship quite mirror each other. Tyrion and Jon are both 'dwarf' and 'bastard' as they grow up, having cold stares, vicious words and hate of others. In the meanwhile, Jamie and Robb is the heir to ones of greastest lords in Westeros, young, handsome and with capability to fight and rule, respected and loved by everyone. Tyrion and Jon always envy and even were jealous of Jamie and Robb. But Jamie and Robb treated them well. "You were the only one who didn't treat me as a monster. You were the all I have"...
But of course in the books, Tyrion and Jon went to different tracks. Tyrion hates the whole world and wants to destroy it for all and to destroy his family in particular while Jon took Ned' and Robb's legacy and moved on. But I think their story lines are still quite echoing each other. They become who they are out of love and hate. We love so we hate. We hate so we love. This is actually one character to some extent but they seperate just after one decision is made. We all, as human beings, got to face the choices in some point that decide who you are. We chose one but in the rest of our days we would keep asking ourselves 'what if I chose another one?'
I remember reading about Jon and Robb's prank and that just made me snicker. They were bros, through and through.
There's a chance that the whole Red Wedding could have been avoided if Jon was with Robb during his battles in the Western Lands. After all Robb only slept with Jayne after the news of Bran and Ruckon's deaths, he felt alone, vulnerable and emotionally distressed understandable considering how young he was, if he had his brother with him it is possible that he wouldn't have had that moment of vulnerability and the presence of his brother could have helped him stay firm.
The Red Wedding was set the moment Cat freed Jaime.
But yeah, maybe other things would be different along the way. For example, If Jon was one of Robb's honor guards in the whispering wood. Greywind and Ghost will be there slaughtering Jaime's men, Rickard Karstark's son might not have lost his life protecting Robb from Jaime.
So releasing Jaime might not have angered Karstark so much and would not lead to his execution. They wouldnt have lost the Karstark men.
Maybe Jon would have swayed him as well from sending Theon to negotiate with his father since Jon never trusted Theon. Won't stop the Ironborn from raiding the North but Winterfell would not have been taken without Theon, thus will keep Bran and Rickon safe. So the whole thing with Robb and Jayne would not have happened.
Would love to see a training scene of them together that would been epic. If he stayed and when to war I think he would have been a great kingsguard to Robb.
yeah...But he got his fate for he is the prince that was promised😀He needs to learn what is like to be a leader. He wouldn't have chance to lead if following Robb.
@@alexwang4872 true but if Robb stay alive long enough and found out think might of been different.
yeah, but probably would have died in the Red wedding sadly. Unless he somehow escaped, but I can't see him running away after they killed Robb. Would have probably fought until he died.
yeah. Jon would not run away even if he got a chance to. Running away left your family being slaughtered is the least honorable thing for him. I always see the very images of Ned in Jon(to some extent, I think Jon is more similar to Ned than Robb is for Robb being the first true born son and heir)@@wadegittleson1317
@@wadegittleson1317maybe but If he had Jon by his side he could of ask him to ride north retake winterfell for house stark.Not have Roose bolton do it for him or pretend to.. probably be no red wedding and no need to kill lord Karstark.
Still don't know why Ned couldn't trust his wife with the truth about Jon. She treated him so horribly. It's really sad.
Because literally all the sound advice he gave her especially when she was in kings landing she completely fucked it all up by doing the opposite and cost her family near everything. I hated her character she was an insufferable women in the books. Michelle Farleys portrayal of her in the show makes the viewers sympathize with her but God was I happy when she got red wedding'd
it wasn’t that he didn’t trust her, it was just neds honor. lyanna most likely promised him not to tell ANYBODY and he stayed true to that.
@@AlanOLeary209 Same, i didn't like Cat very much. There is far worse dont get me wrong like Cersei but i found her character so annoying and screwing up so much.
"Promise me, Ned..." Lyanna's dying wish... Plus, easier to keep the secret than to have some mistake happen and have Catelyn do or say something that got Jon killed (and potentially Ned for lying to the king or for trying to protect Jon once the secret was leaked).
And that's even with the assumption Ned truly 100% trusted Cat's judgment and ability to keep a secret... I'm sure he observed how she treated Jon and other "less than stellar" aspects of her personality...
Why break break your oath and deny your sister's dying wish to increase the risk to multiple lives (Jon's, your own and possibly even Catelyn's)?
When they got married, he didn't know Catelyn very well so he couldn't trust her
In AGOT Jon thinks Robb will be lord of Winterfell, Bran and Rickon will be given holdfasts to hold in Robb's name and the Stark girls will be married off to lords but Jon has no future in Winterfell which causes him to join the Night's Watch. This confused the shit out of me and this video made me think of that again.
I don't see why he can't stay at Winterfell or go with Bran and Rickon and live as a soldier or something. Hell he might even rise up to be master at arms or captain of the guards one day, he is said to be better at the sword than Robb. Robb is better with the lance. He could even go with Sansa or Arya as part of her guards.
Jon even thinks in a later book that Ned wanted to take the Gift from the night's watch, rebuild the old holdfast, raise up new lords, have them settle in the rebuilt holdfasts and Jon was hoping he could be one the new lords.
If Catelyn was gonna kick Jon out, he could've stayed at the Cerwyns who are only half a days ride from Winterfell until Ned came back or Robb becomes Lord of Winterfell. He also could go to the Manderlys or Umbers or any other house that loves Ned.
In a timeline where nothing went wrong, I don't see why he couldn't grow up to be a character like Daemond Sand or Rolland Storm.
The maester was a dick for suggesting it when he of all people would know damn well how and where to send Jon in the time being
Obviously Cat latched onto it immediately cause that’s basically all she’s ever wanted (from her pov). No wonder she wanted to bring him with her, he was loyal to Tully over Stark
Perhaps, Blood Raven was messing around with Jon's head this early in the story. You are right. I remember a chapter with Ned thinking of giving Jon a holdfast in the New Gift to help fight the Wildlings.
You are right. But you forgot one thing that really matters in his decision making. That is he hated to be a bastard. Being a master at arms wherever it is does not change that. Most people would still sniger behind him and insult him in face for him being a bastard. In Westerosi culture, bastards are fruits of abomination, lust and incest, were considered as born to be evil. Staying south of the Wall he might in some point father children. But he didn't want his babies born as bastards as he were. To avoid that situation, options he had were only Night's Watch or Kingsguard. Considering how hard it is to join Kingsguard and Starks' tradition to man the wall, joining Night's Watch sounds good and feasible. He could also ride with his uncle Benjen and visit families as Benjen does from time to time. After all, he loves his sibilings and his 'father'.
@@alexwang4872
I don't think that mattered at all. We're literally in his head and his reasoning for joining the watch was because he believed he had no future in the Winterfell.
Being master at arms would totally fix his problem. It would give him a place in Winterfell plus its a very prestigious position.
That's also not how bastards work. If Jon got married and had a child that child would not be a bastard. Plus he literally bangs Ygritte who by wilding custom is his wife.
Being the bastard of a noble house, especially a great noble house isn't even that bad. Honestly people like Jon and Edric have it better than a lot of second and third sons of minor houses.
@@maclain728 Ned was also a dick for letting Jon go to the Wall. There's literally a 100+ people in the North that would willingly foster Ned Stark's bastard to gain favor from him.
Jon *literally* said that he was the closest to Arya and loves her more than any of his siblings.
Really informative and insightful. Thanks!
This is very well done!
Thanks
john's chapters are either the most boring ever, or the most interesting chapter in the book comes from jon. also, dont know why robb wasnt a pov character but i digress. probably bc catelyn was the pov character.
George has stated that he sometimes thinks he should have made Robb a PoV character
Imagine a POV chapter of the Battle of the Whispering Woods where we get see Grey Wind, Robb's 20 body guards and Jaime fuck shit up.
It would be cool to see more from some of the five kings point of view, but Martin was adamant that he didn't want any of the kings to be POV characters. Robb would have been the best exception though, which is why George probably wishes Robb was a POV character. If he was, just imagine how much longer the books would be though, we probably would have missed out on a bunch, due to editing. I was angry that Sansa was a POV character for so long, but she has some good chapters at the end of Clash of Kings and in A Storm of Swords, which might be one of my favourite books. At the end of the day, every character has chapters which might have best been used on different characters, but then those characters would have had just as many boring chapters too. It's a writing style with pros and cons, but it mostly works out for the best.
P.S. Not Tyrion, almost every Tyrion chapter straight slaps and Jaime is similar too, but he has much fewer chapters so it makes sense that he has a higher proportion of good chapters.
Jon chapters are best for me, all of them. Sam too.
@@disgustingbeast6282 Tyrion chapters were so fucking good until Dance when it started to feel like filler
Imagine a story where jon had not taken black and was by Robb side till end
Jon and Sam are two of the best written characters in any story ever. Love their stories.
One of the absolute best moments in the show was when she talked any Jon getting the pox and how she prayed for him. That scene hit me hard the first time I saw it, and to this day I'll watch it occasionally, the performance and the emotions portrayed was top tier. Wish we could've gotten lady stoneheart in the show
Also one of the biggest tragedies, if she knew who he really was she would've actually loved him.
CivEx!!!!!
Wicked stepmother. ( cat )
I really dislike Cat for her treatment of Jon
I won't blame her anyone wouldn't have done the same. Jon being Bastard of her husband reminds her of his betrayal. I feel sad that she didn't get to know one she hated for so many years was not what she hated him for.😢
3:35 Winterfell's crabs?
You mean crypts?
HELLO!
Babe wake up you have a girlfriend now also whycreate posted
Jon saying his color was always black was true. The black of the house of Targaryen, and red in the ghost's eyes, and even the white represent his snow upbringing. I'm curious how the relationship would have been had they known there were cousins, and Jon a prince/king.
If you are talking about ASOIAF I encourage you to use ASOIAF images. Watching ASOIAF content, only to be met with AGOT television imagery breaks my immersion. Still, this is just a suggestion: this is your channel, do as you please.
Using television images, “breaks your immersion.” GAWD some people. Their are other viewers who aren’t as weak as you. This doesn’t bother us one bit. “Do as you please.” Like he needs your permission. What a pretentious prick. I bet you have no friends. SMH. The only factual thing you said: “His channel.” Exactly! So be quiet.
I hate Caitlin she was the worst character in the story imo.. just a terrible person . Only good thing that happen in the red wedding was her getting killed
John should of been killed off