The Fires of Heaven Review (WOT 5)
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- čas přidán 3. 10. 2019
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Merphy: "Moirane... had a development that I did not expect."
Me: "Well, that's one way to put it."
Moiraine: *dies*
Merphy: Well that escalated quickly
I agree about the forced relationships. Although Rand’s relationship with Aviendha seemed more natural and organic than with Elayne or Min.
I always thought of Matrim as the Han Solo of the Wheel of Time world. He doesn't want to be a hero. He wants to gamble and flirt with the ladies. But when duty calls, he always steps up. My favorite character by far.
I see your point but I think that might be a bit of an insult towards Mat.
im not a fan of him at all. I just dont like how horrible of a friend he is for the first 5 or 6 books. How he just abandons Rand right away when he finds out he can channel even though Rand had just put up with him going crazy for the whole first book and really saved his life. He comes out of that experience and is like well my best friend just saved my life and put up with so much crap but now that he needs up im outta here. Plus Han decides to do whats righ in the moment, Mat accidentally does whats right usually trying to do the opposite.
@@mike-mz6yz I mean, the whole group was just getting pulled around by Moiraine, Rand did not 'put up' with/help Mat massively, they were stuck with each other and of course youw ould care if your friend was dieing. Wanting your friend to recover is one thing, being forced into the frontliens of a battle where you are certain to die (if you were not some destined chosen one) is quite another. Rand wants to play king/peacekeeper of the world, Mat is not obligated to die for him so Rand can do as he pleases.
Bear in mind, Rand does everything in his power to ignore Mat and push him to the side, and OPENLY admits he now mainly sees Mat as a pawn in his game of Kingmaker and fight against the dark one.
Like, I will give a friend food and painkiller if they have flu, I wont go join the army and commit suicide. Same equivalency.
@@IncubiAkster im thinking more about the 2nd and 3rd books this is before Rand totally accepts he is the dragon and before he realizes he needs to do whatever it takes. Mat immediately starts thinking Rand is going to go crazy at some point and I dont want to be near him.
I get not wanting to fight a war, but he distances himself from rand before rand even thinks about fighting anyone. Really as soon as Mat is cured and thinking clearly he is like "I never want to be in the same room as rand"
@@mike-mz6yz but surely you’ve gotta remember the sheer magnitude of stigma against male channellers; they are hated and feared by all. If anything I feel it’s a testament to mat that he doesn’t completely abandon him, of course perrin is even better
Merphy: "Tar Villian" is that how you say that?
Me: Yes, that sounds perfect for the White Tower. You nailed it.
I thought that Merphy was trying to pronounce ta'veren.
@@bluerectangle5794 She most definitely was
"I guess that leads me to Moiraine... Which I'm not ready to talk about..."
Yes, Merphy, yes! I could feel your heartbreak. It mirrors mine. I was so gutted. Moiraine was probably the best of the Aes Sedai, in powers and character. We just didn't know how comparatively powerful and compassionate she was compared to the rest 😭
i loved the morgase chapters.... those read like a domestic horror novel, but with fantastic elements
Fires of Heaven is one of my personal favourites in the series. Shadow Rising and Fires are an incredibly combination in the middle of a series.
One thing I've thought about Nynaeve and her constant anger is that it's caused by her access to Saidar and only adds up when she learns to connect it more consistently. Imagine if you had access to this blissful feeling (like Saidar gives) through something like anger? Any time you'd get angry you'd be rewarded for it, so your brains would adapt to it and so would you. Stimulus -> reaction.
Yes!!
Two things you forgot to mention which are personal favourites from this book:
1. Mat trying to ride away from the battle at Cairhien, and his "luck" keeps on dragging him into the heat of battle where he keeps on making the choice to save people. Him defeating Couladin isn't shown precisely because that's not what mattered to Mat. He wasn't out there hunting for glory. He saw people in need and had to help. That's Mat for you.
2. Birgitte being ripped from the world of Dreams by Moghedien and bonded by Elayne. This is huge, because Birgitte fears she's been separated from Gaidal whom she's loved countless times in the past. She fears perhaps she's been ripped entirely from her role as one of the Heroes of the Horn. Worse, she suspects Gaidal has just been spun out again and now he'll grow up and get into trouble and she won't be there to save him when he needs her. And of course, Nynaeve feels responsible for all of this, leaving her at an emotional low point, crippled by self doubt. And then that moment at the end where she collars Moghedien and feeds her forkroot tea, telling Moghedien that she knows where she is and that she'll soon be made prisoner in the real world as well.
Title: Fires of Heaven review
First five seconds: THIS IS NOT A REVIEW
Nynaeve's not ta'veren - she's just close to their influence, especially Rand's
Yeah there are a lot of people around who can see ta'veren, if Siuan knew Nynaeve was ta'veren she'd be exploiting the hell out of it
@@nickywal Not just Siuan, but there's three people who can see ta'veren in Salidar at one point. Pretty much puts an end to any argument that any of the girls were ta'veren.
Yeah but Siuan would be the one who would have seriously taken advantage of it if she could.
also Jordan explicitly said they weren't in interviews and that only the 3 guys were.
Yes but bc of their close proximity to the t'avreen they arr considered to be the next closest to the center of the weave of ages and thus next in importance in the weave of ages.
Mat is the walking embodiment of the Captain America quote "If you get killed, walk it off."
I read it as "darkfiends" for a long time.
Oh boy, I'm already expecting your review of Lord Of Chaos
It's weird but I think Aviendha was my favourite character in this book, maybe I just instinctively have a good understanding for Aiel and Toh but I could see the struggle she was having between her feelings for Rand and her duty to Elayne from when it started. Also I really enjoy the Aiel sense of humour
It makes me happy to see another circus arc truther! I know that many complaints that people have about it are valid. Luca is very annoying most of the time and he gets zero resolution, so it makes the whole arc feel like a waste. But we get a lot of important things in it! Yeah, there's a lot of time spent focusing on crass humor and revealing dresses. However, we get a LOT more insight into Tel'aran'rhiod including an amazing confrontation in it and a very interesting takedown of the Seanchan brainwash culture. Also, I just love circuses as settings.
Just finished book 5 and it's already my favorite book in the series so far. My favorite parts were everything with Moiraine leading up to and including the Cairehien docks and the parts of Lews Therin slowly but surely taking over Rand's mind. I also loved the little bits where Mat was being a great general. I couldn't really stand Nyneave complaining about men for the hundredth time 🙄 and antagonizing her friends and allies, plus she was getting into way too much trouble for her own good for being so damn headstrong.
I found you through Daniel Greene. I am having SO MUCH fun listening to your "reviews" of the series. Your reactions are PRICELESS. Now a subscriber.
The Wheel Of Time books are top of my Christmas list this year. I'm not worried about any spoilers though because I'm so thick I'll have forgotten everything you said by the time I read em 😊
I always forget how odd certain themes/elements are in the books during someone's first read through. Later on they make sense and re-reads do even more justice to it, but they can definitely throw you off initially.
The women do get annoying during this time (especially with Luca's show and after) but they become so much more balanced and interesting later. Same goes for Mat and Rand. Perrin and Faile go through a "slog" but afterwards even their story takes it up a notch.
I agree with you though - book 4 (TSR) is one of the best "whole" books in the series. FOH was good and LOC has some of the BEST scenes. Get ready for a wild one! "Let the Lord of Chaos rule!"
I’m doing a re-read and you and I are at about the same place in the series, so I’m enjoying seeing your reactions as a first time reader as I go along.
It's fun watching these videos because I'm only a few books a head of you, about to finish book 7. It is so much fun seeing how characters change and this is a great way to help see how different they are from jsut a few books ago.
I agree with not liking how the books handle love in the books. It seems to be a whole lot of destiny at work which makes it feel like they don't have as deep of a connection as they could.
I also agree that the male and female dynamic get frustrating at times but it's fun seeing how different cultures in the book handle this and I'm hoping the later books start to abolish it. I like seeing not only how the characters grow and change but also how the world and the people in it change.
When you do a re-read you'll get why Avienda was so grumpy in book 4 (all the signs are there). The Aiel have a strong honor culture. She had promised to watch over Rand for Elayne. In Rhuidean she learned that she was destined to fall in love with Rand. This made her frustrated because she didn't want to act in a dishonoable way towards Elayne and incur toh.
i was reading for the first time and thats what i thought ,it was pretty obvious
@Northern Sticks She was the original Tsundere
Don’t think anyone with half a brain needs a reread to have understood that. :p
@@macksonedinis3670 same. First read, and it was pretty clear
Loved this!! It’s so fun to see your though process. You’re right, the characters have grown so much already and you’re only HALF WAY through the series! Not even actually lol.
Great video. I'm so happy for the nostalgia of going through this with you, it's like reading it for the first time over again. 😀👍
What I don’t quite understand is Moiraine’s death. Doesn’t Mat go through the same ter’angreal doorway while in Rhuidean? True, there’s a cost, but he does survive. So I’m not sure why it’s such a final death to Moiraine and Lanfear. It was confusing enough to make me doubt whether they’re truly dead until Lan reveals that his bond with Moiraine was severed. I feel like that really gives finality to the whole thing.
I think it’s because it burn and was destroyed by the fire . But I strongly think it’s a fake out
But Matt would have been dead if Rand hadn’t cut him down
Gosh, I miss reading these books for the first time. Your theories are great and exactly what you should have been thinking at that time, but man you are in for a ride. Please keep sharing. Love this video. 💓
Yesss I agree with the Jordan doesn't do relationships properly, the female characters are super bratty.... I love bridgett though she's such an awesome female character.
imo i think the bratty stuff all stems from how the world is built. men are seen as trouble and women generally do most of the leading. so when these girls who are strong in their own right are forced to be lead by a man its hard for them to come to accept their roles as support and not leading.
Yeah, her and Moiraine were the best female characters by far
I actually had a shit ton of hopes for alivia, the seanchan channeler which jordan introduced and was a pretty major player. But as soon as sanderson took the reins, he totally ignored her until like one line at the very end which kinda annoyed me
Because bratty females just don't exist anywhere in the real world lol. We all have flaws and EVERYONE acts bratty on occasion, female or male. The important thing is they feel like real people, not character specific stereotypes. They make stupid out of character choices sometimes and even choices they know are bad but their pride won't let make the right one. They feel like real people. Sometimes they're kind and generous and other times they can be rude and selfish.
Most of the relationships blindsided me on my first read through. Second read through they all have their seeds and you can understand where it came from.
I know you released these videos almost a year ago, but I'm so glad you did. Thank you!
So much biting of my tongue necessary here! I Loved your reaction and enthusiasm. I only discovered you recently from a video you did with Daniel Greene and I am going to really like hearing more of your opinions/reactions to TWoT. You are probably not an actress and Rosamund Pike has been cast to play Moraine nut I think that you would make a great Moraine.
You are in great company in favoring TSR, aka book four. I am pretty sure that it is the favorite among the fandom.
I read the first nine books in haphazard order right before book ten, Crossroads of Twilight, was being released. They became my favorite series because they contain my favorite characters. I have re read many times in various sequences and I have fallen off of reading in general since the series concluded.
I am going to hunt for your reactions to book one through four now!
LOL. Stoped at 5 secs. I'm still only on Chapter 29 of "The Great Hunt".
Egwene and Nynaeve are about to hunt down their boys!
Oh yeah, you should not be on the Internet now until you're done. Don't google anything, don't even look up fanart.
@@fredsmith2067 yeah, I did that and got spoiled big time
Perrin is great in the earlier books, but as they go on into book 7, 8, and 9 etc Mat has some great fun story lines while Perrin's ones become quite dull. The slog, so to speak.
And Sanderson made a botch of the perrin storyline in what could have been a much better ending for his antagonist.
Perrin has some good moments too. I tear up a little every time I read that scene where he expresses confusion at the two rivers refugees showing up with bows, and Tam says the refugees said you took them in and gave them homes where no one else would, so they're Two Rivers men now too.
Nynaeve is having her low point in the story around this time. Jordan has a tendency to really bring characters low before they get to rise again. Don't worry, it'll pay off. She's my personal favourite female character in Fantasy.
Nynaeve is my queen and rolemodel for life.
@@jessi4894 Kick her? Elayne really was becoming violent, spending so much time with Aviendha. Someone ought to slap some sense into that pair.
-Nynaeve
@Greg Hearn That comment cracked me up four months after you made it. I think Nynaeve’s hypocrisy is what made her so amusing in the beginning, and makes her overall arc so powerful.
I just finished book 5, and Nynaeve was definitely at her most irritating, bratty, and hypocritical here. But i see it as part of her overall character development - because honestly, had she not been humiliated through the book, no way would she have grovelled before Moghedien in the end, thus gaining an upper hand.
Told you about Mat. “And we’ll follow Lord Mat, wherever he goes, to dance with Jack o’ the Shadows.”
"The men should sit in the corner and maybe not speak."
Merphy Napier 2019
That's gold right there.
I really hope the show doesn't quell the intense sexism that Robert Jordan wrote into this series.
Thanks for this spontaneous commentary. This made my morning. 🙂
She's really getting into the characters mind.
@@fasdaVT Right. She is becoming Aes-sedai in her heart.
It did :(
I was really confiúsed when you said Mat killed the big bad :-)
And only Egwene Aviendha are obsessed with Rand belonging to Elayne.
Couladin yeah. Couladin was a real prick for a big part of it all
Your reviews are awesome for us who have read the books! Book readers usually mention Mat, Nynaeve, and one other (who, if I mentioned, would spoil) as their favorites by the end. Nynaeve is utterly EPIC in this series, and much will become clear. Enjoy Book 6! It is my third favorite after 11 and 4!
I do love your videos cuz its not someone that read the books more than me. Its an interesting perspective. I enjoy the fresh reaction to a book.
“And I had some thoughts” and I guffawed
Im on my 3rd reread. watching your vids as I finish. Better hurry up girl
I just finished this book.
Elayne and Rand’s relationship is the worst relationship of all time. Remember, they met once, for like half an hour, when Rand trespassed in the royal palace in Caemlyn. Elayne then goes to the white tower and falls in love with Rand by talking about him with Egwene and Min I guess? They meet again FOR THE FIRST TIME when Rand has proclaimed himself the dragon and has Tear. She’s like: “Rand I LOVE you” and Rand is like: “I guess you’re pretty hot, I like you too, wanna smooch?” They kiss for like a week and then he’s gone.
His relationship with Aviendha is so much better. First of all the spend weeks if not months very close together so it’s more realistic. And second, it’s developed over 2 books! In the shadow rising they’re was so much tension between these two, I kept screaming at my book: “HAVE SEX ALREADY JEEZ” cause it’s so obvious they’re attracted to each other but they pretend they “””hate””” each other. But when it eventually happens in this book, it feels really earned and satisfying.
It was actually Avienda who kept saying that he hated Rand. All the tension came from her end because she felt guilty because of Elayne.
Merphy: *tears up a bit talking about Moiraine*
Me: *starts bawling*
Great "not a review." I'm really enjoying these. I love seeing people process this series for the first time. Especially thoughtful and insightful people. Good stuff. :)
Great review. Read this book 15 years ago and felt the same way when Morainne died
Of all the main female characters, Nynaeve IMO has the most satisfying overall growth in the series. By the end she is my favorite female character. Which is funny, because in the beginning I loved Egwene, and by the end I am one of the people who absolutely hated her, while in the beginning I hated Nynaeve. To some degree this is related to the women's attitude toward men you mentioned. Let's just say that for Egwene that attitude gets worse and worse, while for Nynaeve that attitude eventually starts to get better and better.
^^^. I hate the Egwene/Nynaeve scene in book 6.
This. I absolutely loved Egwene in the White Tower, I can't tell you how many times I've re-read those scenes, but I really disliked her from the moment Rand came to the white tower.
I *hated* Nynaeve at the start, and my only mate who had completed the series loved her.
Now in my re reads I can't see why I ever hated her. 10/10, 100/100 Best girl.
Loomx5 I'm sort of this. I never hated her, if anything I found her "mother hen" routine amusing because she always thought she was right even when she was obviously wrong. That applies to the women in general. Some people think WoT is feminist propaganda and that the women are always right, etc. But I've read it as the women always think they're right and the men are often bailing them out without getting any gratitude for it.
By the end, I'd agree best Aes Sedai for sure. I adored Birgitte and Avienda though so I'd have a tough time choosing there.
Great review! You're definitely giving me nostalgic goosebumps just hearing your thoughts and opinions. Just. You. Wait. :D
I just finished this book, and your comment got me excited to read the next one.
Glad I’m not the only one who loves the books but want to shoot most of the characters half the time for how they act haha. Sometimes I just want to scream for at least a few characters to get along with each other, not everyone has to, but please let a few of them grow up and get over themselves
Cairhien is pronounced KY (as in Kyle) ree- en. :) according to the audiobooks. Definitely pronounced that wrong on my first read.
The best part of the audiobooks is when you realize that Kate and Michael pronounce something differently. :) Really though the two of them are absolutely great.
I just finished the entirety of the series on Kindle/Audible and I have to say that Whispersync is a godsend!
@@RichFreeman I'm bouncing between Libby and Audible. My job makes it really easy to read pdf on the job as well. So where my first read through took 9 months, I'm on book 8 at about 2 months. Its nuts.
@@RichFreeman I know what you mean, really threw me at first. When I first heard it I thought, "It's cool, they've probably have never met." Nope, they're married.
You’re gonna looove Lord of Chaos. Best of the first 6 , and a great ending
Easily worst of the first six. Amazing ending, but an utter snoozefest throughout.
"Jordan can't do relationships" LOL
I feel almost no fantasy authors are good at that. Jordan wrote many of his younger women to be annoying first and foremost and some were written more realistically later on.
Jordan gets mad props from me for being the only author I've ever heard of with the balls to try and get a harem published. When you have fantasy protagonists that are good looking, powerful, charismatic, selfless, good, etc, multiple women wanting them makes a lot more sense than monogomy does.
THIS
@@praetorxyn the problem I have with his relationships is that most of them go this way. Oh hey that person kinda cute I love them.
"Oh hey btw I love you."
Intrest: "I love you too we are in love and married now"......
Adevnture co You read way different books than I did if that's your takeaway. The women basically had to browbeat him into accepting them because he was so pessimistic about himself, and it took like 10 books.
Cant wait to hear about book 6, the back half of it is extremely powerful imo. Nynaeve grows into one of my favorite characters but it is slow.
remember the taint and try to consider it's possible effects over the course of 3000 years of culture
Yaaaay merph, so glad your liking it.
Watching you experience a series I've read through and through at least 8 times is gold. You don't even know.
You seem to have missed/misunderstood some things about Mat.
1. He is not immune to channeling, he survived in Caemlyn because Rand balefired Rhavin so hard that his actions for the whole time since rand started the attack were erased from existence because of how Balefire works.
2. He got the Memories of hundreds of great military commanders do fill the gaps in his own memories and he hates it.
3. His "luck", while often beneficial, is just twisted probability. The basic rule is that if Mat leaves something to Chance the outcome is going to be an extremely improbable one.
I seem to remember an amulet he wore made him immune to direct channelling. Aes Sedai travelling with him bothered him until he let one study it.
It's implied in this book, so the details of his deal aren't really that spoilerish. Mat goes in thinking he will get answers when actually he gets three requests fulfilled.
1. To have his memories filled.
2. To be free of the One Power and Aes Sedai.
3. To be away from the Eelfinn if they won't answer his questions.
Unbeknownst to him, there's also a price to be paid. In his case, he gets hung by them for payment.
The details on how is immune to channeling however are only examined in later books, so I'd mark that as a spoiler.
Oh and his luck is twisted probability, but it pretty much always goes in his favor. The only time it doesn't is when he's directly trying to run from his destiny. It's OP as all get out.
Best quote from this book : “She stood in one smooth motion, surprisingly pale where the sun not touch her, slender and hard-muscled, yet with roundnesses and softnesses that haunted his dreams.”
Avienda 😍
@@jackinthebox1993 Best girl in the series
this fascinates me. the fact that a writer can say "stood in one smooth motion" and people understand it?
well, that's encouraging, anyway.
@@billyalarie929 Audiobooks do so much justice to Robert Jordan if you have read the series I would highly recommend to pick up audiobooks it will change so much for you especially if you are not a native Eng speaker like me.Plus the second go at the books is just much more satisfying and you will see how much forshadowing RJ did and you will appreciate the series much more as a whole.Even the "slog" is not that bad(even tho slog for me does not exists...well book 10 is just meh but that's another topic).
Pretty sure the gender dynamics are meant to be a inverse version of misogyny you might see in other books. The female characters often aren't as powerless and dumb as male characters perceive them to be and some tropes that people may have passively accepted before are flipped on their head and inspire different reactions than usual in the reader.
I think the next book is the one when things start to really click. The pace gets all over the place at times with frantic battles and things with longer slow paced chapters. I'm looking forward to the review for the next book after what happens in that one. The ending is fantastic.
I’m still trying to get through the first book. I really like it but man it’s so slow progressing. Thankfully I only have Like 200 pages left.
Can’t wait for you to get into Lord of Chaos. Get ready for some box and some kneeling.
I am reading Lord of Chaos in the moment, and The Fires of Heaven is my favorite until now. I didn't miss Perrin at all in this book, actually I think the choice of not showing him was good for the pacing of the book. Nynaeve is my favorite character since book 1 (I guess I like her ranting hahah). Regarding the female characters I have a problem with Egwene since book 2 (I can't relate or like her at all, even though I try my best because I don't like to "hate" female characters in books). Siuan Sanche was a great surprise in this book, I loved her POV and I really liked her reaction with what happened to her. I was waiting so much stuff to happen with Lanfear (I love her too!), Moraine and Asmodean...So I was totally surprised with this book! I still don't care about Mat, I am waiting for him to become the awesome character everyone brags about...
I struggled a bit with this book because i had read the first four books physically and in portuguese (I'm from Brazil), and on this book I switched not only to english but to audiobooks (which by the time I wasn't so used to).
Only by reading some summaries I got everything in my head correctly, and your reaction to it are similar to my feelings with this book.
I am currently about to start book 13, so what I can say is:
• I still don't think Jordan writes the romantic relationships very well, although he does gets better
• There are some amazing foreshadowing in this one, so be ready
• Lord of Chaos is awesome, I think you'll love it
• I'm on 13, and the only one that got close to the feeling I had with it was book 11, so don't mind that you still think book 4 is amazing, it is
• You are getting to the slog, so if you think sometimes Jordan spends unecessary time with some stuff, that's what you'll get with it. Specially books 8 - 10. Even though they have great moments, it seems he could've condensed those 3 books into a big one like LoC and it would be better
Love your videos, Merphy!
Just finished yesterday - not totally convinced that Moiraine is dead. Not that she'll be back in the "real world" - but maybe on a different plane of existence? I also really missed Perrin in this book. I am going to read New Spring next, but I am really hoping that Perrin is more important in book 6 when I continue on!
Its a great book cant wait till u read book 6
I wish you would have gone off on an Egwene rant - IMO she deserves it more than Nynaeve lol. 😂
I loved Egwene because she developed as a character so much. Before this book she essentially bowed down to Nynaeve, this book painted them more as equals which led to them seeing each other more as equals. I haven't read passed this book yet, but it made me excited to see there new relationship dynamic play out.
Hope to see your next review soon
A little late to the party, but anyway: I used to agree with you on the sexism thing until after I read Brandon Sanderson's work and really started considering how historical events effect culture. The Breaking of the World was and is a massive historical event that had global impact. But I don't think it just impacted geography or the paranoia about male channellers.
Imagine a continent spanning event where the big take away lesson was: MEN CANNOT BE TRUSTED. Then you give it 200 years and see what that lesson turns into. And to that the local state is matriarchal because of this issue. It is baked deep into their culture and therefore will be baked deep into every interaction they have. So yes, I still get agitated by Nyneave and Egwene (and to lesser extents Elayne and Aviendha's) treatment of their male counter parts, but not as much as I used too.
@Merphy Napier >>> _"Igloo sex"?_
That certainly gives NEW MEANING to the expression, *_"Netflix & CHILL"._*
😁😁😁
Nynaeve isn't ta'veren. Only Rand, Perrin, and Matt are actually named current day ta'veren in the books so far (I just finished book 5). She is just a brat.
Lanfear's crazy ass is so amazing sometimes
"I refuse to believe that Jordan would do that to me." Oh, my sweet summer child...
I can't watch this video yet because I'm still on book 4, but holy crap you read these so much faster than I do!! Haha!
Its not always recommended to read too fast if you want to read between the lines about what is happening.
Does Merphy know that Jordan is dead and Sanderson finished the series? 9:50 “Jordan is not good at relationships, but I’m sure his own is great.”
Probably meant at the time of writing this book
Here's my response as I attempt to catch up to you (first read through) - I'm calling a Morraine return a la Gandalf, but that the bond was broken because of Rand melting the ter'angreal(s) and sealing off the doorway. May be totally wrong (and I don't want to know!) but that's my gut call and I need proof just in case 😂
And I also think it will give Lan the ability to bond to Nyneave and Moiraine will come back. I do not believe her or Lanfear are dead.
When you say “the other women in the series are frustrating” (excluding Moiraine) what do you mean?
Makes you wonder what Perrin was doing this entire book
I feel you on the women. Jordan does a great job creating all of these unique cultures and peoples but all of the women have the same bratty, domineering attitude. Grr. Drives me nuts but the rest of the story is so good that I’m going to keep going. Currently on book 7.
I feel on Moiraine- she was my fav, followed by Perrin then Lan.
I know Daniel Greene recommends reading New Spring after this book. Will you?
If she wants more Lan and Moraine.....
That's when I read New Spring as well...when you're missing Moiraine.
Do you remember by chance what kind of hilt Rand had put onto Laman’s sword? Was it ever described?
I love all these reviews and how polar opposite our opinions are at this point in the series
About certain tropes, wait till Vol 6 prologue for Aran'gar and Osan'gar - not to mention a couple of others, like Cyndane or Birgitte - or the general philosophy of Wheel of Time of nearly cyclical timeline and reincarnation.
SPOILERS!!
Seriously, is it so hard to remember someone is a first-time reader?
Has anyone else noticed a lot of typo's in the ebook cover editions?
Lord of Chaos, and I'm loving Perrin and Failes chemistry
Merphy is who I imagine when I read Lanfear.
No one I know is sold on the Rand rombis/rectangle/ whole relationship thingy. But it does show that this world is fated not free willed.
I really enjoyed fires of heaven definitely one of my favorite books in the series
You can only ever expect Matrim "Bloody" Cauthon to do the unexpected.
I thought the scene where Lanfear finds out about Rand and Aviendha was hilarious. Imagine being so obsessed with a man that you wait thousands of years to get a second chance with his reincarnation, then throwing a hissy fit when he ends up with someone else again.
You let another woman touch you!! *throws man's skin like a balloon*
Oh boy wait til the next book. The end of it is epic af.
I know this is over a month old, but I cant wait to see the reaction to the Lord of Chaos. I think 4-6 are the best books in the series although I like the others but this stretch of books is great. I like that comment about Rand trying to live his life and kiss a few girls..
Currently on book 6, and so far top 5 characters for me:
Perrin
Faille
Rand
Lan
Avienda
honorable mentions to Moraine, Suwon, and Loyal. I cannot stand Egwene, and im not sure how i feel about Nyneave
I think it was Min and Elayne that had the discussion @13:10 😅
Nynaeve is misunderstood i think, shes all heart and thorns, her block makes her rage necessary. I love hearing peoples thoughts on characters change as the series goes along, i will grantee you will think diff of some of them by the end, but maybe not Nyneave or maybe you will. :) Stay away from spoilers if you can, if you do you will have no clue as to whats coming, this series never failed to surprise me with the directions it took. In fairness the women think mostly of the men in the same way the men think of the women, their both right about each other and wrong at the same time, just like RL :)
"this series never failed to surprise me with the directions it took"
yes and no, with a second read one sees the foreshadowing
For example: Mat pull´s a "Blood and Ice Cream trilogy" move in Book 1
@@EnigmaG1 yea on a second read its all there for sure, but i doubt many see it first time through if they haven't been spoiled
If you plan on reading A New Spring, now’s the time imo!
Most people recommend it between Books 10 and 11, which is the publication order. Methinks Jordan intentionally released the book at that time because ....reasons.
Hey everyone can you help me with something pls? I just read The Eye of the World. Its been the most i've ever struggled to finish a book. Do you guys think i would still enjoy if i continue and try to reach book4 (which i heard is a breaking point for series to become next level)?
I liked perrin's subplot, the prologue, the beginning of the journey and the end.
I disliked pretty much everything else, especially how repetitive their travel adventure was, felt like just the same event over and over again...
THANK YOU!!! I felt the same way about the woman and their treatment of the men! And I could find anyone who felt the same so I felt like I was completely missing something! It was nice to know I'm not the only one who was irritated with that
The women's attitudes towards men is probably my least favorite thing in these books. If it were good-natured ribbing that would be one thing but it goes way beyond that!
Their attitudes are a result of the world Jordan built and the position they expect to hold in that world. Wisdom is essentially a female mayor and healer rolled into one. Aes Sedai are perceived as the shadow rulers of the world. Elayne is supposed to become the Queen of one of the mightiest nations in the world. However, women of lower relative stature or from other nations do not view men the same way. Min doesn't, which is why Rand finds her uncomplicated. The Aiel have their own male/female dynamics but they subtly differ from those of the Wetlands. The Atha'an miere are very different, something which we're first shown when the women speak with so much more fondness of men during the voyage to Tanchico in book 4, and then later when we get more of them from book 7 onward. Seanchan are basically a fully egalitarian society and are never shown to speak down to men, because their society treated all channelers as equally responsible for the Breaking.
More to the point, when Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve look down their noses at men Jordan's writing undermines their beliefs. He's telling us constantly that they are wrong in their views. He gives them opportunities to see the error in their ways and to grow, and whether they take those opportunities is up to them as characters.
@@johanjarvinen Bingo! And it's heavily implied (maybe explicitly stated even) that there was a time where it was the opposite essentially where male channelers were clean and females went crazy and men held power etc.
@@ryanpatrick1875 Not so sure about that... If you mean the Age of Legends, that was Jordan's "ideal" government where both genders worked together in harmony. It's a common theme of the books, that the greatest feats of the Age of Legends were achieved by men and women working together. And of course that when the male and female Aes Sedai were unable to find a way to work together at the end of the War of Power this lead to Lews Therin having to lead a contingent of only men to try and re-seal the bore, which allowed for the Dark One's counterstroke, the taint on Saidin and the breaking of the World.
Whether in some other turning of the Wheel the female half of the source has also been tainted is pure speculation as far as I know.
That's kind of the point. I always enjoyed the irony of the women thinking themselves superior and being wrong.
All I’m gonna say about moraine is; no corpse? No balefire? She’s alive.
I'm only on book six, but I completely agree. Fully expecting to see her back within a book or two. The dead giveaway is that we don't get her POV when she "dies".
The women get better later on...most of them. Or they become frustrating in less bratty ways.
“Kai-ree-en”
The relationships ARE mostly stupid. But in my re-reads, I kind of find it to be “part of the pattern”. Many of these relationships may be based on shallow things and minimal interaction, but almost all have HIGH impact on the plot and the pushing world events. I actually find to be 2/3 of Rand’s love interests to be sort of poetic in a way.
Nynaeve is amazing. Trust me. Amazing.
It's funny that Merphy (and many other WoT reviewers) criticize Jordan's subtlety, then criticize when he isn't subtle, all while missing/overlooking details that Jordan is planting. Makes for a funny result. I guess multiple read-throughs really do help a lot of people out.