The Fires of Heaven by Robert Jordan Makes Me Hate The Circus And The Fact That It Exists At All
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2019
- This episode of Mike's Book Reviews continues his journey into the world of Robert Jordan's fantasy epic The Wheel of Time. This is a full spoiler review for The Fires of Heaven, so use caution if you've not read the story yet.
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I can't believe he built up Couladin for a book and a half, and then didn't even give us a battle scene. Truly one of the most mind-boggling things ever.
I thought Samuel would try and make a play for the sword for sure since he was the one Forsaken skilled enough to use it. It seemed like Rand set some kind of trap on the sword but was really left in limbo and why would the girls keep going back to just that room?
I seriously thought I missed it and kept going back. What a disappointment!
"my biggest question at the end of the book is, 'who the hell killed asmodean'"
Wow, so nostalgic... haha
Ha ha, so I've been told.
Error correct any of this if it's wrong, but I thought that Jordan was amused by the question also because in his own words in an interview somewhere the answer was completely within the pages of book six. No need to read further to find the answer. I still don't see any clues having re-read the whole series multiple times.
(Not Really) Spoiler:
It was Greandal.
Still don't know what evidence points to her.
@@anthonyferguson9282 God dammit. I didn't stop when it said Spoiler.
@@mikesbookreviews I honestly believe that knowing who did it, especially since Jordan thought it was evident at the end of six, doesn't change anything while reading the rest.
It's almost like a useless factoid.
ooooeeeehhhhh, I remember the wiki discussions and speculations!!!!!!!!! Epic!!!!!!!!!
“Game Of thrones : a woman and her 3 dragons
Wheel of time : a dragon and his 3 women”
😄 so was Jordan a Mormon by any chance.
Oh the Recaps.... By the way, I love, how Jordan explains us book after book after book, how the dreamworld works, but then completely without explanation throws in a character mentioned once 500 pages ago, acting as if anybody of us remembers the guy.
"Lan, biggest heartbreaker in all of Rand land." I chuckled at that. Lan is my favorite character.
He’s got the lines, man. Heartbreaker.
A bit late, but I've been having fun with a rewatch.
As one of those guys who hates Egwene... If I were to attempt to be objective, I personally think Egwene's anger towards Rand in this book is a manifestation of her realizing that their power dynamic has changed. He's out there conquering nations and leading armies and changing the world... and she's still an apprentice. He has outgrown her, and she doesn't like that fact. After her capture by the Seanchan, and even before that to a lesser extent, control is extremely important to her. On top of that, the Aes Sedai made a huge fuss about how powerful she'd be... and Rand makes her look like a child there too. This in particular gets highlighted near the start of book four - right after the conversation between her, Rand, and Elayne. She knows the Dragon is the most powerful channeler to ever live. She knows Nynaeve is far more powerful than she is. And, she still assumed Rand was only about as powerful as she and Elayne. This is just the book where all of that is settling into her head... and she DOESN'T like it.
That's my take on it, anyway.
(SHRUG)
It was in my 6 or 8th re-read of the series when I had the thought that Loial is Robert Jordan. Long-winded, too-much detail, then sometimes too blunt and always writing more. It's funny to me now every time Loial goes on too long with a story then says something hasty, thinking of how we review the books as too long-winded in some spots then rushing through so much content in the 3rd act.
I’ve viewed this story as what Loial is writing as soon as that plot element came up.
Just finished this book, my favorite Mat moment so far has been in book two when he’s holding the horn of valere and he says “The prophecies never said we can’t use it now”
and everyone’s like 🤷♂️
Yeah, that Mat part was pretty unexpected
Duuuuude I loved that part where Lan sneaks into the tent with Mat and gets him to speak on his opinions on how to prepare for the upcoming battle sneakily. Well done 👏🏼
My theory is that Nyneave find a way to heal the gentling of Logain since Min had that vision of him being great
Its a good theory I like it.
I had a hard time believing moraine actually died. I felt that very same way, a bit bummed... she was a huge player for me
It sucked.
She had to die to open the way for Rand to have more complicated relationships with other Aes Sedai. Moiraine was like Rand's Aes Sedai training wheels. Sooner or later they had to come off.
(I still Love love love Moiraine)
I wasn't emotionally ready for that Lan quote at the beginning. 😭
I couldn’t remember which I used. Yeah, Lan has had such a reduced role by this point but any time he’s there, it’s usually good.
I just finished TFOH in my first read through of the series. Big fan of your book reviews and this one mirrors my thoughts/feelings on this book to a T. From the dragging on with the menagerie to the holy crap what just happened final acts, you put it perfectly. Thank you!
I feel you on the lack of Perrin. I stated reading the series when I was a teenager and there were only 4 books out, and I loved the Perrin 'scouring of the shire' plot in book 4.
Bought 5 when it was released. No Perrin. Not even a little bit. Man was I pissed 🙂
I love seeing your reactions to these book as you read them. Sad to see your only up to book 6 so far, but that does feel oddly appropriate...
I couldn't even imagine my frustration of waiting between books and then no Perrin.
Come on man let Perrin enjoy his book long honeymoon. The man already has to deal with being married to Faile.
I must admit your reviews on WOT are completely on point! I am a first time reader of the series and I am glad you hit and didn't miss major parts in the story. These books have a lot going on and you can easily miss important information. I have watched other reviews and they have left out so many important events in the story. Great review brother. Look forward to watching the rest as I continue my journey book 6 here I come!!!
Oh, get further ahead. The bigger this channel gets the more I have people in the comments accusing me of skimming because I don't mention every tiny bit from one of the books. Especially the Path of Daggers review. Those comments got ugly.
The reason for Moiraine sending Lan to another Aes' Sedai is so he would not suffer the madness Warders feel from losing their bond and wanting to commit suicide. It gives him a reason to continue living.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Hey, Mike! So I have been watching your reviews and they are great! I am actually in the middle of my third readthrough of the series and whenever I finish a book, I go to watch your corresponding book review. It is always so so interesting listening to the thoughts and feelings of first time readers. Some comments I smile at and think "RAFO!" and then there may be some negative comments that I sadly agree with. When you say that we don't need a recap of the story, I think I know what you are talking about. For instance, how he explains what it is like in Tel'aran'rhiod in every single book. Or how he really likes to drill in how enhances someones's senses are when they are holding on to the Source. I agree, it gets a bit annoying. That scene with Mat in the tent, talking about the battle plans with Lan was so awesome. One of my favorite Mat moments. He is truly coming into his own and He only gets better from here.
Thanks for watching and commenting! With the recap stuff, I actually shout out loud "I don't need to be reminded that Saidin is the male half of the One Power and Saidar is the female half of the One Power. I mean, I've read a couple million words of your series up to this point. I got it, ha ha. Mat gets better each book, I just feel like Jordan is holding back with him. He gets like 2% of each book so far (I'm currently reading ACoS).
@@mikesbookreviews How far into ACoS are you? That book, iirc, is very Mat heavy. Since Mat is by FAR my favorite character, I enjoyed that book a lot. There is also a lot of great comedic moments in it that I love, that sorta balance out the grimness of the rest. Can't wait to hear what you have to say going forward! Cheers.
MK Genest Chapter 14. Which is, ironically, the first Mat chapter. I’m liking it so far.
love the honesty in these reviews, great review
You got my sub. I just started reading this series. It may become my favorite series, but that is to be determined.
Thanks! I'm looking forward to getting back on the Wheel early next year.
I 100% agree with the criticisms on this book. I really believe RJ’s books could have benefited from some outside editors. (As I understand it his wife served has his editor) These books all could do with a great deal of abridgement. (So far. I mean I can only speak up to end of this book.)
Editing this series down to about 10 books (I'm guessing, since I haven't finished) probably would have helped. But I do admit to feeling that way about most fantasy series that go past a trilogy.
Robert Jordan has a rough.. and I mean rough time writing female characters but he absolutely nails Moiraine. And it made her death so much more difficult
Yeah her death was difficult
@@angelaholmes8888 Just got done re-reading it. It still baffles me that Moirane was so desperate that she decided TACKLED a forsaken just to kill her. That woman is different
I don't necessarily agree as I think some of the female characters nuances are really well done, even if he does put a way bigger emphasis on personal appearance for female as he does for male characters. But I really the fact that Jordan's managed to keep powerful woman really feminine instead of just "masculanising' them like it's done a lot in fantasy. I also feel like they could have developed Moiraine's character way more, still didn't make her death any less difficult :')
It was only in hindsight after finishing all the books that I realized just how big the story is. It began to make sense why some books did not contain all the important characters. Even though I miss not reading about my favorite characters, I understand now. Upon further re-reads (lost count, more than 10 I think), this point gets even more pronounced (for me at least) because I pick up on things I had not noticed before. This is a really big (both wide and deep) story. In a sense, it is The Story. Still, I get bored during the "slogs", too. I differ on some of what you describe as a slog, though. I liked all, that stuff about the Aiel for example. But, I agree, there was too much circus.
Sooooo much circus.
you had the winterfell banner in the background in just the right light during this, i glanced up and it looked like a mirror for a split second. the blue light does it justice.
Yeah, that was before I changed my setup.
Weirdly Aviendha one of my top 3 characters atm and her relationship with Rand works better for me than Rand and Elayne or Min
Same here: first time through I read the first four books in fewer than three months and I couldn't get enough of it. This was the first one where I was like "Ah...coulda skipped this." I haven't reread this one, despite everything in the final act, and Rand and Aviendha's frisk in the snow.
The reason for the recaps was the amount of time that passed between each book, easy enough to scim read through those parts during all my rereads. You are right to not try and remember each character, if they are important enough you will remember them.
I get that. It's just something that gets annoying through a binge read. I'm sure it was necessary for those waiting a year plus between releases.
Hah, I stopped trying to remember every name mentioned pretty soon - only to find myself reading a name like three books later, trying my hardest to remember what was revealed about that character before. I started to feel that, if I actually remembered that Aes Sedais Ajah or this political pawns alliances, I would probably be able to understand just that much more about what was going on especcially in the prologues where you get all those little glimpses of stuff happpening out of the spotlight of the rest of the story. I was really glad when the WoT Wiki started to fill out and offer more and more information over time...
im on my first read through and after every book i come to your reviews and watch what you think and recap what i read, and i cant believe you didnt know moiraine was going to die when she did, she spent all book and last book like she knew she was going to die soon and then she just needs to go to the docks. as soon as lanfear blew up i knew her time was up.
Hey Mike I've watched your reviews and really dig em. You totally smashed this one in my opinion. You echo everything I thought with the exception of min lol (I like her). I'm a first time reader and cant wait till the lord of chaos review . Thanks man
I watch your videos after every book and man you are so in line with most of my thoughts.
Ha ha glad folks are still enjoying these old videos.
Dude you are so in line with my tastes that as soon as I finish this series I am going to watch your other videos to jump into my next series.
I just finished this book, and I agree with pretty everything you say with the cons. I can't stand Egwene or Nynaeve, and was a bit disappointed with the lack of Perrin. However, so far, this has to be my favourite so far. So much happening.
Probably my favorite so far in the series, currently starting book 6
I’m really late to this video but I’m enjoying watching these as I go through the series now. Moraine’s death didn’t shock me because of how Jordan wrote her but how it happened did; I thought it would be in the final battle against Rahvin so the dock scene slapped me in the face. I enjoyed it and I’m excited to start Lord of Chaos. I’ve subbed and built a heavy TBR list thanks to your channel. I appreciate your work!
I understand you're frustration with this book. I have to say that I enjoyed it more on rereads because of a the little things you pick up. Like Callandor. He was lugging it around for throughout most of the book
I liked most of this book, the circus part was just...no thanks.
@@mikesbookreviews oops lol I replied to the wrong video. I thought this was Path of Daggers. That's what happens when you try doing things on the go
This is Nagwene at her most arrogant. I feel ya bro. In my rereads I skim Luca's show chapters. Quickly.
Ha ha Luca is just rough to read. Him showing back up in later books has increased my blood pressure.
"Who killed Asmo?" used to be the biggest one
Ha ha I've seen there were even bumper stickers.
I agree, some parts of the book I had to switch to audiobook while I am driving/cleaning house just to get through the chapters. The amount of time i had to read about dresses changing in Tel'aran'rhiod I thought this was a New York fashion show.
O my goodness but the last third of this book was amazing, could not put it down.
Morraine falling with Lanfear threw that door, felt like Gandalf falling with Balrog to there "death".
Nothing wrong with the re-caps... hard on binge readers, but not a problem to an original release reader. I waited 1-2 years in between books on my first read, and was happy to come up to speed on where we left off, much quicker than re-reading the previous book.
This book is one of my favorites in the series Jordan definitely did a great job
Ah, 120 pages into Lord of Chaos, barely finished the prologue then ;) Stick it out with Lord of Chaos, it is a bit of work but man is it worth it in the end.
and Min gets more relevant in LoC as well.
Seems most of his books are backloaded this way. And, yeah, that prologue was basically a novella ha ha
100% agreed
Agree Moraine's death was crushing in part because of what it does to Lan. I didnt like Lan leaving either I felt like at the time I read this when it came Rand needed Lan around him. In some ways Lan is his mentor at least as much as he can be, thinking back to the Great Hunt when he helped Rand out. Egwene ugh.. I do like Aiel I had read a lot of fantasy like Dragon Lance and Forgotten Realms as I was a D&D nerd, before I read these in the mid-90s as such I didnt have any context at the time for them so I ended up really liking them in part because they are loyal to Rand and how far they will go for him. So much to comment on. Love the reviews.
Thanks so much for watching/commenting. The lack of Lan post Great Hunt was already a bummer to me. Now him off doing whatever has me really bummed. I look forward to his inevitable return (currently through book 6).
I love Moraine's decision to follow Rand. I get why people don't like it, but when people are dedicated to a mission and humble, they're willing to put aside their rights and self to serve the mission. She's serving the mission. It's great, we can come to see that she wasn't just a know-it-all authoritarian, she was a servant leader trying to help a plan unfold and serve those around her.
Hopefully in later books Mat and Perrin get more chapters. They’re awesome and hugely under used. It’s starting to frustrate me that we get all these Nynaeve chapters while those 2 are sidelined.
"I need Egwene to do more." That wish is absolutely gonna be fulfilled. xD
I'm currently on KoD and I feel like this is beginning to happen.
Dude, your accent coming through as you quote the series transforms Lan Mandragoran into a Cowboy from the Wild West 🤣 and it Seriously still Works.🤣
I recommend you read A New Spring now after reading Book 5. It's awesome
Ha ha, didn't realize. It's been way too long since I did this video to even recall.
i love the aiel, its so interesting to me and it just fits real well for me
Do you remember by chance what kind of hilt Rand had put onto Laman’s sword? Was it ever described?
It does feel icky at first, with the whole three loves thing. It's interesting to see how each plays an important and unique role in Rand's story, and how Jordan maintains them as whole characters in their own right at the same time. They don't lose their own plots in the process of building those relationships. Which lets be honest, wasn't A Thing in the 90's!
It was certainly forward thinking in its time.
It's great they still have their own plots and all, but him having three wives still is my least favourite part of the story. It just seems so unnecessary and forced for him to have his own harem.
Another great one
Gracias!
“I feel like Min is just the most useless character in this book right now.” Buddy, you don’t know the half of it
I'm sure its here in the comments somewhere, but small correction, it is actually Moghedian who pulls Birgitte out of T'Rd and Nyn trys healing her to keep her from dying in a way that kicks her out to the pattern of rebirth with her man, but that didnt work so elaine bonds her
Probably. This feels like a lifetime ago so I don't even recall.
Totally understand, its nearly impossible to keep everything in the series straight, and I love the vids btw
Agree about recaps but most authors do that, books take 1-2+ years between publishing
Yeah, I have to step back and remember not everyone could just always pick up the next book immediately as I am.
"Sometimes they make me want to visit the real dream world." That made me laugh and its true.
How can you not tai’shar that quote at the beginning of the video.. you can’t leave that out ! Tai’shar manetheren ! Tai’shar malkier!
Because then I'd have a few dozen comments telling me I pronounced everything wrong.
I will be shocked if Moraine and Lanfear are dead, no one has died in last 4 books but bad guys, no stakes yet, on to book 6
You like Grimdark? Please tell me you have reviews or plan to do the Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever (finished series).
Shoutout to the Black Company!
Hi Mike I like you reviews, to understand Egwene in this book you kinda have to take yourself out of Rand's perspective and realize that in less than a year they both are changing rapidly as people. Her frustration is the lost of the boy she always knew, and for a time though she would marry. Is it childish, yes but she is also a 19 year old girl. She doesn't deserve the undulated hatred of the fan base.
I certainly do not hate any of the characters. I may not like the amount of time we're spending with some, but I'm enjoying all of the characters, Egwene included. As far as my problems with her in this book, it's simply that I do not think Rand will command the respect of others while she's constantly undermining him in front of those he commands.
Mike's Book Reviews I agree with you I really can’t stand that aspect of egwenes character
Dude literally fucking same about Perrin's absence in this book. He's been my favorite character since his time with Elyas Machera in book 1. I haven't started book 6 yet but if he's not back in a big way I'm gonna riot.
🤐
I enjoyed this review and agreed with a fair bit of it. I am not looking forwards to the three wives thing, along with the horrible romance are the two things that put me off this series. But it's doing something right because I do want to start the sixth book.
I had to explain to my girlfriend why I was laughing so hard when Rand walked in on naked Aviendha and she reacted by ripping a hole in reality and streaking through the snow
It's interesting you feel that way about the three wives thing. I have only just started lord of chaos so I don't know where it ends up but I guess with the way that destiny rules almost everyone in this story it feels more like the way things have to be? It hasn't felt icky to me I guess.
Maybe thats because it's not rand wanting them all and so that's what he gets. He hardly knows what they feel for him and how strongly they feel it. I think it's going to be a very big shock to him when he realizes what 2/3s of his wives half agreed on. All without his knowledge or input. I can see it not going very smoothly for Min and Elyane. But I doubt they will be very up front about it because no one is ever up front about things they should be in this series.
Love your WoT reviews
Andy & Alex Thanks! I love making them.
15:50 being in tel'aran'rhiod in the flesh being "evil" is never resolved, because like aes sedai, the wise ones don't know everything. they just know that the forsaken do horrible things using that technique as best anyone can theorize. and this isn't a spoiler because it remains entirely unresolved and not covered at all. so i am willing to hand it out. just so that you remember that the characters don't KNOW anything. they believe many things.
I appreciate it. Just no spoilers for anything that happens after Lord of Chaos, please!
Yup: the characters are all unreliable narrators, sometimes they say something that's true, sometimes they lie and other times they tell myths believed as true.
on the 3 wives thing for rand, its ladies night. they are the ones who decide that it is ok, rand feels just as icky about it as you do. and no, i don't think it is some marvelous invention of robert jordan, but i think it works well enough.
For me the slog started a book ago. 4 through 12 all have significant portions of extraneous material. A really great series that unfortunately weighs about twice as much as it should. As opposed to Way of Kings, where I've read 1000 pages and not a whole has happened to the (only) 3 main characters, but there's no fat on it, there aren't chapters that could be removed wholesale, the author is very clearly purposeful, whereas after book 4 of WoT it seems like the editor was dismissed.
I read WoT before Dune, and honestly the Fremen did not remind me of the Aiel. The similarities are obvious of course, but I don't know, the worlds are different enough maybe. WoT is almost a YA novel, while Dune is definitely more adult. In hindsight saying Jordan was "inspired by" is pretty generous, considering just how similar they are.
ah Balefire plothole/inconsistency. An example of an idea too cool for the conceiver's execution.
I’m not even done and I think I’ve said this could be edited down to a really good 10 book series.
@@mikesbookreviews I still say 7, remember the last three were already intended to be one. But, there's so much good stuff in there too.
I would also cut down book 3. Awesome book but most of it was just travelling from one end of the map to the next. You could've cut all that out and went straight to 4. Though, maybe upon reread I'll see it as more purposeful
24:47 keep it up mike I think ya got something
Nice review. This is where you will stay to really see the complaints about Jordan's descriptions.
Moraine scene is actually one of the key scenes in series. This scene was written 25 years ago. Before the ASOIAF and other darker fantasy.
On characters
Rand: is the starting to grow for his mistrust of ase sedai starts here. In a lord of chaos it's well you will see this is the start of the Jordan's Male insanity ...
Mat foundation was laid last book. His death is important you wont find out why til [spoilers]
Perrin 2nd awsome scene is coming
This point in series where the narrative shifts to more the female plot lines.
Egwene this is her real foundation book. From 6 on she has some of the biggest growth in series.
Nyneve this is her flip book she going ti get brought to earth and rebuilt.
Elaine shes starting her growth her portion of upcoming story more political
Avienda. Shes the least screen time of the wives 3. Alot her neat comes at end of the series.
Min. Only hint is shes the point of sanity starting book 6 through the rest of the series. Her really everything starts in chaos.
Lan. He gets more after chaos.
Aiel. Sorry you don't like them that mitch they do play fundamental roll in test of the series. They act asf a foundation for rands forces and humility through out
mike mcquarrie I figure with 9 books left, there is plenty of growth for characters still to come.
The tediousness of the Aiel was mind numbing for me. The series never reached the peak of the first four books for me. I really wish that Harriet had been a much better editor for her husband. This series would be much more revered if it had been tightened up greatly.
I really enjoyed Egwene's story. In Shadow Rising and this book, she is learning how to become a wise one. She learns about honor and leadership and the dream world... This is important to her character arc.
totally agree. I liked her in this book. she does some gutsy things and I like her separation from rand who from her perspective is full of himself
I agree with Mike about Min she kind of seems like a 5th wheel kind of wanted her to branch away from Siuan and somehow make her way to Rand.
Oh, you’re not supposed to *remember* the names. Jordan gives you enough context that you can figure it out who they are when they reappear.
Totally agree with WAY to much on the circus. I think entire chapters could have been deleted and the necessary information all combined into a single chapter. This book could've really been a full quarter shorter, if not a third.
Valan Luca makes me want to kick puppies when she shows up later in the series just because of my PTSD of his bits in this book.
I have to wonder if I am the only one in the world who knew who killed Asmodean at the end of the book on my first read. I did NOT look up spoilers, no one told me, and I didn't even get it confirmed until I finished the series and read the Companion. I just put two and two together and came to my own conclusion which turned out to be correct. My friend who was reading at the same time had no idea and when I proposed my theory she was like "oh yeah, how did I not see that..."
I never saw it at all.
@@mikesbookreviews Do you know by now? I'd like to explain how I figured it out but don't want to spoil.
@@sea5063 I am quite curious how you figured it out because I certainly did not.
@@koenoverbeek6624 It's quite simple really. The Fires of Heaven, chapter 54. Moghedien quote to Nynaeve "Do you know they are drawing Rand al'Thor to attack Sammael? But when he does, he will find the others as well, waiting to trap him between them. At least, he will find *Graendal* and Rahvin. I think Lanfear plays another game, one the others know nothing about."
Okay. This is how I broke it down, this is how I narrowed it down to take a very accurate guess at who killed Asmodean. Find all the flaws in it you like, but this is how I figured it out and I ended up being right.
It wasn't Moghedien, she was kidnapped by Nynaeve. It wasn't Sammeal, he was in Illian. It wasn't Rahvin because we know he got Balefired. We know it wasn't Lanfear because she went through the red door angreal. So that left one: Graendal.
Sure, it could have been a Forsaken (or literally anyone) not named here, but because these were the names mentioned these are the ones I thought must be the only contenders to kill poor old Asmodean. Considering it was my very first read I impressed myself really. And I swear I didn't look up who it was before I guessed.
@@sea5063 I am impressed XD, I don't think I would have figured it out on my own after fires of heaven.
Maiden, mother and crone, the three facets of many feminine conceptualizations of divinity. Aviendha is the maiden, Elayne the mother and Min the crone (because she's wise, mostly--the woman who sees beyond--but you'll also note she is deliberately older than either Rand or the other two girls).
Take a shot every time Mike says "Frank Herbert's Dune" in the whole WoT series review.
Egwene's character always bothers me because she never either listens to Rand or give him any credit. She cuts him off and assumes it's wrong or a bad idea from him -argues but no discussion.
Other character growth for her was much better but not that part. IMO after several reads of series.
Endless Aiel Traditions, haha...my main complaints about tSR and tFOH
I really liked this one- equal to Great Hunt for me and slightly better than Shadow Rising. I actually loved the circus. I know, unpopular opinion 😆
we all have ways to say the names we prefer. I just know that if I ever get to see the Amazon series, I'll get endlessly pissed at how they say shit 'wrong'. :P
Ha ha so many get upset on these videos because I don’t pronounce character names like the audiobooks. Yeah, that’s what reading is. You say it how it works for you. I called Smaug the dragon “smog” for 30 damn years until I saw the Hobbit movie.
“If Jordan has taken his kids to the circus recently”….. He did, or at least a circus came to Charleston, and this gave him his solution to bring Galad, the women and Masema all together.
Egwene and all the other characters can’t communicate properly. She has reason to be annoyed at him but she does nothing to get his trust or be his friend. When you think about it they’re not actually good friends. I think she would put her life on the line for him and vice versa they have a loyalty to each other but she wouldn’t keep his secrets or counsel him more like scold. I think she has the right to be rude to him, they have history and our from the same village. Same with everyone else. If he demanded she bow down to the lord dragon it would be weird and gross. I hope they portrays their relationship better in the show. Even if it’s a deteriorating/ shifting relationship. It’s tough bc she sees herself aligned with the tower so she can’t just be rands girl bestie.
You are right about Min :D She is just a hangaround.
Around Crown of Swords I started to like Min.
The first 2/3 of the book felt slow and repetitive to me, it took 2 weeks to get to 65%. From 65% -> finish took 1 day and started LoC the same evening
keep in mind the books came out two years apart so It kinda was necessary for a recap. You much like myself when I started reading the series years ago are burning straight though with no time lapse so the recap comes across as unnecessary. I am responding to a video you did months ago and I'm sure someone has already mentioned this to you but there are a couple of filler books in the series, one of which takes place over a period of two or three days. I won't say which but It left me really disappointed. I'm interested to see how you react when you finally get to those books. Your analysis is pretty good even on things I may disagree with you on. You have it over on me with regards to the fact that I had to read each book a second time to do a proper analysis.
Yeah, I get that. As a binge reader, it's annoying. But I do understand.
I see how you could see that the Aiel are representative of the Freemen in dune. However, this is all based on religious themes. Jesus (the Dragon) was a jew, there were 12 tribes of Isriael. The Jews wandered in the desert fo 40 years as a punishment. The Aiel are clearly a take off of the Biblical Jews as the Last battle is a take off of Armagedon in the book of Revelation.
Egwene, Egwene... I had the same problem with her. She is a character who i liked some of her arcs but doesn't liked her very much. If it makes sense. The circus is a unanimity in the fandom. Nobody likes it. About Nynaeve... I love her. She is pretty much a character love or hate.. Moiraine was a surprise for me :/ i cried.
I think once people just accept that this is the type of personality Nynaeve has, they will like her more. If they're waiting for her to change, I'm not so sure that's going to happen.
@@mikesbookreviews Nynaeve is a character who doesn't change much but she grew a lot. :)
This is the point when you read New Spring.
After Moiraine’s departure, I take it?
@@mikesbookreviews If you want more of her and Lan, it fits in nicely there. It is not necessary for the story as a whole. I read it at different times, through different rereads. It's a nice interlude.
I like getting your first impressions. I've been reading the series since 1991, so a fresh perspective is awesome.
@@coolintruddle I've been pleasantly surprised by the WoT fanbase during this read. Most established fandoms can be quite elitist to a noob approaching a series for the first time but everyone has been positive and welcoming. It's one of the nicest fan communities I've ever been around and I'm praying the upcoming Amazon adaptation doesn't spoil it like it has for Star Wars.
@@mikesbookreviews I expect and hope for changes in the show. I think the Children should be dropped entirely and a lot of the Aes Sedai can be combined into fewer characters. The Aiel, also. The Forsaken will be whittled down to 5 or 6. I also think they'll drop the whole Rand marries 3 women prophesy.
Fandom is a weird thing that I don't fully understand. There is a lot of stuff in the series that simply won't translate well to the screen. Change is good. If it sucks, I'll just pick up Eye of the World and escape the trollocs on Winternight.
What I love about the series is that after you've read it a few times, it starts to get meta and becomes like the legends the characters know in the books. Like The Adventures of Jain Farstrider or The Great Hunt of the Horn. You can tell the adventures of The Dragon Reborn or The Wolf Brother around a campfire the same way you can about Arthur or Beowulf.
@@coolintruddle Oh, they're going to have to combine some Aiel/Wise Ones and Aes Sedai characters. I could see them dropping the Seafolk all together. I think the CotL will be there, but their role will be reduced.
Cool review. Just remember to let The Lord of Chaos Rule.
If you want to know who killed Asmodean go to The glossary and look for Asmodean you will find the answer. Not this book but the next one
Yea the circus stuff took waaaaay too long for me smh. This was the beginning of the slog for me honestly.
Birgitte rhymes with an Arctic cheetah: Brrrr-GEET-uh.
Nooooo I love Min!
Egwene, and other women, have the misguided notion they need to keep Rand humble. Despite the fact that he is literally a king at this point, and they would NEVER treat someone born as a king in this manner to keep him humble. Pretty sure they're just incompetent (see: the Aes Sedai in everything they try to do ever).
I also groaned out loud when another Kate Reading-read Circus chapter started. But it was 90% due to the abrasive and terrible character that is Nynaeve in this book (and go a lesser degree the earlier books). I hear she gets better. But man the combination of her character is written, the WAY Jordan writes her POVs and the way Kate Reading Reads most characters but especially Nyn, all added up to just a dreadful and frustrating experience.
A good audiobook enhances the writing and style of the author, but in this case, Jordans writing is already so extreme (Kramers slow voice + long descriptions is a nightmare). So Readings Nyneave and Aes Sedai are just too much for me
AH! for some reason I thought there wouldn't be a new WOT book review for a long time so when I saw this video pop up I was pleasantly surprised :)
I love Min! I fear for the TV adaptation that they will cut or morph characters but honestly out of Elayne, Min & Aviendha, I like Min the most, so if the writers can keep her please T^T
I am one of those people who hates Egwene. Not so much judged on her actions but more on her words.
TBH as a female I dislike a lot of Jordan's female characters. Sometimes it feels as if he just created them to be annoying characters :/
I get why people like Mat so much but I like Perrin.
Moiraine's death really got to me too, even though she wasn't one of my favourite characters or anything.
As for who killed Asmodean, I won't tell you of course, but I recently read some really interesting info on the decision why he got killed off here, and its funny how things have changed.
BTS Nev I remember the lead up to Game of Thrones and I obsessed over them doing it faithfully. I imagine I’ll be the same way with this now.
I just want to follow up and agree I love Min. I have heard people suggest her character could be cut for the TV show but I dont see how however I am clearly biased. I like Aviendha, in part because I love the Aiel, well I like Elayne as well, I hope they do the books justice in the show. Egwene, is probably my least favorite over all of all the main characters. I dont like her lack of loyalty to people including Rand, and her self importance towards the end.
@@WSPBane Egwene seems to change loyalty to whomever she last spoke to.
If you don't like Matt now you never will.
welcome to the writer who doesn't know what brevity is
algorithm
I just finished the book 5 minutes ago and jumped to watch your review right away as always.
I have to say I find most of the women in this series to be quite annoying. Egwene is by far the worse and as the books progress I get more and more annoyed by her as a whole. Nynaeve is also a bit annoying in her weird hatred toward men? The whole dynamic and thoughts of men to women and women to men is mad annoying.
I also am annoyed at Rand and Mat with their aversion to even touching a women even when they are gonna die by one.
I personally found the circus stuff not horrible just very drawn out and unnecessary but it's not as boring as most of the story lines of the women.
I struggle through more of the women's POV to get to Rand, Mat and Perrins POV. I find them much more interesting, rewarding and better personally.
I do enjoy this book though and think there were lots of great moments and loved Rands progression and the battle and political scenes. Overall excited to read the next book leave a comment on your Lord of Chaos video once I'm done reading!
The "I won't kill a woman even if she's a freaking Hell demon" thing drives me nuts. I have a hard time believing chivalry would be a thing in a matriarchy dominated world. The SuperGirls chapters (Elayne, Nynaeve, Egwene) bored me to tears in books 2-5. They're actually better when they split up. Except Elayne. But no spoilers.
Why why why must we have so much nyneave and so little mat and Perrin? Frustrating!