Why is The Winds Of Winter taking so long?
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2023
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A wise man once commented: "King writes like it's his job. George writes like it's a hobby that took off in a way he wasn't prepared for and now that there's so much pressure it's not so fun anymore."
That's why I love Sanderson. He writes because he legitimately enjoys it and would keep doing it even if no one ever read them.
Well then King is just excellent in his job.
It's art some are faster than others, but they are different all around.
@@johgu92 Eh, he's hit or miss. I would say he used to be excellent at his job, but now that he's immensely wealthy, he doesn't really care about the quality of the work anymore.
To be fair, the one time Stephen King had a 7 book fantasy epic to write, it took him 20 years to finish and he had to be run over with a car to be motivated to finish it.
George is just breaking the trope of finishing a story, it's the ultimate cliff hanger
I mean, by now I'm convinced he will end the books the same way Frank Herbert "finished" Dune; but GRR couldn't even have a son/daughter for us to hope for anything.
Bravo for subverting expectations !
@@strangemolars If he dies i'm sure someone will print anything he has written
@@gustavocardoso9453 nope, it is actually has it in his will that if he dies before he finishes it all his notes and unpublished writings are to be destroyed so that no one will ever be able to finish it for him, this is the ultimate act of narcissism
@@Michael-bk5nz kafka leave to brod destroy his work, but he didin' t, we never know
I got my grandmother into ASOIAF after the first season of GoT came on. She re-reads all the books regularly. She is now 92 years old and increasingly frustrated at the prospect that she will never get to read the ending...
yeah, thats not happening
You can console you're grandmother with that NO ONE will get to read the ending
lmao imagine getting your grandma into your tooedgyforskool misery p*rn.
Unfortunately, given GRRM's age, it is unlikely we will ever actually get an ending from him. Possible, but not likely.
@@IsaiahINRI George will be dragged by the ear in the afterlife to personally read the book for grandmother!
Can hardly blame George for keeping a VERY close eye on the spin off shows after what happened with Thrones.
these shows are just as bad as final seasons of thrones
They're not, although i believe hotd isnt as great as earlier season of got it's still way better than the later seasons @@thekrakensdaughter
lmao where? The spin off show is like the later seasons of GoT not early ones
Everyone blames D & D, but they brought the shows to the screen and created awesome seasons. The blame for how it ended rests on George's shoulders as well, yet so many give him a pass. It's comical.
@@jimlittle5769 nah lol. The best seasons, by far, were the ones where George was involved. The show's writing quickly became utter dogshit after he was pushed out. The story wasn't the problem. The ending wasn't the problem. It was how we got there. That isn't on George. D & D pushed him out, with no source material left to adapt, and utterly failed at translating the story framework they had into something even half decent.
I still have hope for Winds. It's the Dream of Spring I'm really worried about.
Dream of Spring is aptly named: a dream not even a possibility.
He needs to put his ego aside and hire a co-writer already
@@Michael-bk5nz very true.
Dream will certainly be released, posthumous that is.
He's 75 years old now! I don't think we'll get DOS! He's also kind of overweight and as he ages dementia/Alzheimer's is a realistic possibility!
The most meta practical joke of all time. “the winds of winter” is literally “the dream of spring”
LOL
Also, the Stark words are Winter is coming but it just doesn't seem to be
If it’s going to be 1600 pages, it probably is both
@@Heatx79 1600 _manuscript_ pages, which can be around 1150 regular ones.
@@nayaab27 We are all children of summer and have yet to experience the long night. Winter is coming.
George may not owe his fans a finished series, but at minimum he does owe us honesty. I'd respect him a lot more if he just came out and admitted that he's having trouble wrapping up the story, that his heart's just not in it anymore, etc. As opposed to what he's doing in real life, going on 12 years with no end in sight while still being like, "Yes of course I'm almost done with Winds of Winter, I'm working on it constantly, why would anyone doubt me?"
This
Agreed, but I feel that this is as much a business decision as it is a moral one. The moment he admits to ASoIaF not being finished, the interest in his other related stories and works will drop. And I'm sure both he and his publishers/producers don't want that to happen.
To borrow a phrase, We are not GRRM's bitch. George has insisted he's working on it and determined to finish. We're allowed to wonder if he can do it.
@@Banzai51 And to put it in Pulp Fictionesque terms-if we are not GRRM's bitch, why does he F**K us like bitches?
Remember, George is quite the chess player. House Of The Dragon lets him do what is more enjoyable and lucrative-but of course he has to appease his loyal book readers-or seem to. Thus the hints being dropped about Winds Of Winter release. Really, his heart just isn't into it, and as far as real progress toward a finished project goes well..... I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it all was rather fictitious itself-or to put it more harshly-a great big fat lie.The best solution would be for George to become "co-authors" with someone who could work with George well, respect his writing, and make sure the whole thing gets finished in a timely manner. I suspect George could have his pick of some VERY accomplished writers to co-author with him. why he hasn't done this I don't know. Greed? Selfishness? Denial? Your guess is as good as mine !
I fully believe he stopped writing the book years ago and has no plans on finishing it.
i agree eems like that hes lost interest in ASOIAF not interested anymore plus as long as HBO keep bringing him more ideas projects WOW will never come out
He enjoys his fame and meeting people and going to cons and parties. So unlike most authors, he doesn’t care to finish his legacy. And we’re stuck with the HBO ending
I love that more has probably been written about why winds is taking so long than in the actual book😂
In leght, for sure, but definitely not in content.
Final book will definitely not be written. I think they should start preparing Joe Abercrombie to outline it.
@@brenorocha6687given that he’s probably written almost nothing, I don’t think that’s true.
At least we know he's been writing even at a snails pace... unlike Patrick Rothfuss whose taken just as long and has virtually nothing to show for the wait.
It's quite simple. GRRM is old and not what he used to be as an author. He's grown slower and less passionate about his story in ASOIAF. Mix this with the crazy complicated plots and the countless POV characters.....it's a struggle, bruv. That's just my take using common sense
Imo The problem with Grrm is that while he is a gardener, he is bad at pruning unnecessary branches. He gets too carried away by minor plots, characters and elaborate descriptions. It's like a hydra, every time he concludes a plot or character he creates several more in its aftermath. Best example is the red wedding and how that created even more spread out plot in riverlands.
Well, the showrunners tried the alternative by having the Red Wedding conclude the Riverlands storyline and having the Boltons and Freys not suffer any consequences, and it was boring and dumb as hell. A massive event like the Red Wedding SHOULD have enormous consequences, GRRM would be a bad writer if he used it to just end a plot line and left it at that.
I think he should've split the book into 3 or 4 books To carry on the struggle So he can Go in different ways And follow the story he intended plus he would've made a tun more money ❤
@@frankvandorp2059 There is a middle ground between those two extremes, though.
There's several Riverlands subplots that are not necessary, nor particularly interesting. The metaphor of the OP is apt.
exactly. We see in very well in Tyrion's plot in book 5
@@andi9161I’m assuming you mean splitting Winds up, similar to how Dance got split into Feast and itself?
It could potentially work, but with everything coming together, if he releases half the characters up until the end of the book, he’s then locked in to writing the rest to fit into it. He he splits it by time, they he may end up realising he needed to add or change something early on to make work.
I think this is kind of the problem he’s having with Winter AND Dreams, in that he’s begun thinking about how he wants Dreams to go down, and it requires Winter to be altered in small ways, and so he hanging onto it while he gets plots in place.
This is a very respectful video. Well done. So much vitriol on the internet so it’s nice to listen to reasoned discourse
Seems insane to work on spinoff projects over finishing the core work.
Exactly. 😊
it is much easier to do something different ;-)
He startet the books almost 30 years ago and has somehow be consistent with his own work.
It can't be fun to reread your own books 2-3 times just to get a grasp what you started 1/4th of a century ago - and he is simply too old to handle this level of complexity he created.
That would be the same if I enter an old save-file from a complex game like DysonSphereProgram, Factoria or Satisfactory and try to play on ... I don't envy his position.
He is a great writer but he dropped the ball and can't finish his own work.
That's where the money is though. The GOT show is over. The cash cow is in the spinoffs now. Giving HBO more source content is the best financial decision.
If he finishes the core series he risks a backlash like the tv show's ending got.
And rumor is GRRM wrote that ending for twice as many seasons, but the showrunners crammed it out too fast.
Dude the TV show is gonna be fan fiction when he finishes the books the only two things that are confirmed from show is bran gonna be king and danny is going to go mad which is fine @@hariman7727
All these issues will just be compounded with the finale book, I find it extremely unlikely he finishes the series.
Several years ago I was of the mind we'd never see ADoS.
Now I've lost all hope for Winds, as well.
If we DO get it, then great! But there's no way this series gets finished. No way.
@@Quazi-motothat’s sadly true. What’s annoying me the most is that GRRM has been blue balling us vor 12 years.
@@Quazi-moto You think he'll pass the torch to someone?
@@fengusburnt no
@@fengusburnt He already has a team around him, so yeah probably. And even if he does not, his publishers and heirs certainly won't leave the story unfinished and lose an opportunity for more money
I’m not a George hater by any means, but I think he misunderstands his legacy. If Tolkien had never finished Return of the King no one today would be saying “but at least he gave us the Silmarrillion”. The main story has got to be wrapped up as he intends it or all the rest will fall by the wayside a few years after his death.
Maybe individual completed stories would still be enticing after his passing, but nobody would embark on the whole series because the main story is not finished.
or alternatively, the lack of an ending will make the legacy longer lasting.
@@andersbjrnsen7203longer lasting, perhaps. but definitely a different kind of legacy
His legacy will be GoT season 8, and an unfinished series that started it, he is working hard to build a world like Tolkien did, but he forgets, Tolkien finished Lord of the Rings.
@@joperhop And Tolkien never did finished his world building. The Silmarillion only exists cause his son compiled all the separate stories and notes his father made. He did finish his mainline book trilogy. It would be pointless to read the expanded stuff if Tolkien never completed Return of the King. Authors need to be well aware that endings are important as the journeys, probably more so since they give the journey meaning and conclusion.
Do you know what The Winds of Winter is? A story we agreed to tell ourselves, over and over until we forget that it's a lie
A real life fiction.
I think you make a great point about the type of writer George is. Being a "gardener" type of writer is great in the first few novels where George is happily planting seeds and expanding the world, taking his characters on separate journeys and so on. However, at some point, these threads that have spun in different directions need to come back together in a cohesive story and then an ending.
It's clear to me that George does NOT want to do that in his very heart of hearts. You can tell that from the way he introduces key characters with a lot of power to affect the world even in A Dance With Dragons and how he often avoids intersecting characters despite it being the logical thing to do (e.g. Arya Stark who is waylaid trying to go North then the Hound tries to take her to her mother and they arrive just slightly too late for the Red Wedding and then the same thing happens when the Hound tries to take her to Lysa).
I honestly hope he does manage to finish ASOIAF. Regardless of what else he writes in that universe, ASOIAF will remain his magnum opus and it being unfinished would cast a stain on his legacy.
Does George know that gardening involves watering for the garden to grow? Whole lot of not watering been going on for a decade now.
I get the impression that what Martin always truly wanted was to work in television. And now, with the success of his novels, he has the opportunity to work on multiple popular, critically acclaimed tv shows for HBO. This is his dream, and this is what is getting his attention. I don't blame him, but I also don't think the series will ever be finished.
I think you're spot on. He was always a hollywood kinda guy.
I'll be less kind, because I've grown to despise GRRM and his arrogance.
He managed good work with GoT to start, but started falling in love with his own mental masterbaition as he increased in popularity. I've heard he styles himself as "The Atheist Tolkien".
Once GoT hit HBO, he suddenly imagined he was master of all he surveyed, and decided that he had just SO much more to offer than that icky old thing about, "you had one job". That's why he's got so many screen credits - who doesn't love getting money for doing essentially what Donald Trump used to?
The "Dunk & Egg" adventures are a literal waste of time, because GRRM is bored & can't figure out how to write the ending properly. He's probably scared deep down, because D&D screwed up so badly by rushing the end with only the bare bone framework, and he can't abide that people no longer give a damn about him.
I'm betting the fat fucqer dies of a heart attack before finishing the series.
That's an excellent point. George left TV writing in the first place because the means were not available to render his stories on a TV screen just as he wanted them. That isn't true any more. Thanks to CGI you can now show anything on a TV show and George's imagination can be fully realised without production problems. That's why he is once again heavily into TV spinoffs. Plus, he's super-popular now, so budgets are less of a problem.
If what you say is true then I wish George would come clean and announce that he has no intention of writing his books. I'm too tired, too old, it's too complicated, I want to enjoy my life and my money. Any excuse will be valid. But be honest with us instead of keeping us waiting while you announce that Wild Cards shit on Twitter that no one cares about.
@@santiagodiazlescano933 But he has come clean. He has repeatedly stated that he is continuing to write the series and that he does intend to finish it. If he had just given up on it, he would shut up and not mention it. That would have been the sensible and human thing to do. But instead he has repeatedly stated that he WILL continue to work on the book and that he WILL finish it. And yet fans go on and on and on and on with this same nonsense that he must "come clean" and announce that he has given up. Stop it.
Being married to a writer, and hanging around the members of the HWA, I think I can recognize when a writer has lost the fire for a certain project and I'm afraid I see that in GRRM. I am certain he is being completely sincere when he says he intends to finish Winds and Dream, I am also certain he never will. Everyone, for any project, has to have that inner NEED to continue to make it to the finish line. Once that's gone, it's extraordinarily hard to get it back. Think about any project of your own that you never finished.
I think that the TV show ending was definitively similar to George's original idea, at least in terms of outline. But the poor reception of it created a huge problem for him to write his final books.
mad daenarys is more a martin thing than a royal happy couple.@@MyIntelligenceIsSuperior2You
Problem is, a some of the concepts, weren’t bad in theory (bran becoming king, Dany going mad) they were just executed awfully
@nicholashines2403 yes they were, bran was useless, and dany is not meant to go mad, we don't need two mad queens.
@@Aydan2108 you missing the point of my comment. Yes Bran was useless in the show, but if used correctly, given his power, he would make an incredible king. Kind of like blood raven but with more of a moral center
@@Aydan2108 also I wouldn’t call Cersei “mad” she is just an awful person, as opposed to Dany’s madness which could have been developed more as someone with a genetic predisposition of madness and was tormented into that state
One thing I find interesting is that (according to wikipedia, sourcing his blog) he considered an October 2015 deadline achievable in May 2015. And a year-end deadline achievable in September 2015. So about 8-9 years ago he thought he was almost there. This tells me that he must have thrown out pretty much everything he had written and started over in late 2015 or early 2016. And may have done the same several times since then.
Cormac McCarthy said “An Author should spend there time writing instead of talking about writing” George immediately came to mind
Stephen King once said, "get me some blow and a type writer, I'll write the bitch in a fortnight."
@@john56801 no the Cujo manuscript was a weekend and an eight ball I beleive
Let’s not joke ourselves, the only reason George haven’t finished the Winds of Winter is that he doesn’t know how to end it. He have an idea how to wrap up certain plots in the story but on other plots, he is stuck and can’t wrap it up. The book has become too complicated for it’s own good. That’s why we can see him taking up other projects instead of completing the series.
Can't he get help?
Well he’s to busy endorsing house of the dragon & other stuff house of the dragon could of been fantastic but I only liked 2 episodes of that series.
He should just have AI write it for him then.
Yeah if you read the books it’s ridiculous, in ADWDs he’s still introducing major characters! It’s beyond complex
he probably knew how to end it but saw how people reacted to the end of the series. If people thought one of my main end game villains (Daenerys) was terribly written, I wouldn't finish those books neither
I think getting involved with all these side projects is actually his way of building towards wrapping up the story
More like his way of avoiding the story.
Lol how?
He’s not wrapping up the story, he’s just retelling it in a different medium.
Let's say that's true-it definitely is him avoiding writing the main plots-how does having required reading outside of the main books make for a good, wrapped up story?
Idk he goes back in time and writes about then cuz the present is too hard to wrap up.
Thats from G.R.R. Martins latest blog update: "...Parris and I found one just last week; an animated series called BLUE EYE SAMURAI.
I hardly know where to start on this one. Once we started watching it, we could not stop. Binged the whole thing in three nights, and I am already hungry for the second season. ..."
31.12.2023 AT 8:24 AM.
George has changed as a person and writer over the 30 years that have passed since he started ASOIAF, and I wonder if he is hesitating about where the story is going. Having watched every interview and read every blog post, there are multiple instances where he has referenced this. Last year he conveyed this best when he said "Things are growing… and changing, as does happen with us gardeners. Things twist, things change, new ideas come to me, old ideas prove unworkable, I write, I rewrite, I restructure, I rip everything apart and rewrite again, I go through doors that lead nowhere, and doors that open on marvels". He goes on to talk about how the ending will be drastically different in the books and it is continuing to become more and more dissimilar. It's my own personal belief that George has even less of an outline than he lets on and that he is most likely struggling with and changing the character development and endings of Jon, Tyrion, Daenerys, and Bran.
I don't think the discontentment with the end of series aided in this directional problem.
@BusinessWork-nu3wi I've seen so many people, including myself, not necessarily mad at how things ended in the series, but more so how sloppily they got there. (i.e. Dany turning into Queen Barbecue Everyone in a span of an episode)
hes murdered himself into a corner to a large extent
@@lenorevanalstine1219 hard disagree there's all of Westeros for him to introduce new pov characters and then kill them
@@crazygemini82I was gonna say the same thing, I just watched the final three seasons for the first time (I was determined to wait for winds of winter but have finally given in) and like. The execution is terrible but I do stand by my opinion that had more care been put in almost the exact same plot could've happened without any major complaints. I don't hate how it ended but more how it got there. That being said I can see why he would want to deviate from that ending.
Quite frankly, I do not believe he will ever finish the series. It is my belief that he does not know how to get to the ending he wanted - the series keeps getting bloated with too many side stories, old and new ones yet to come. He will die before ever finishing.
There's truth to that I think. Being a gardener is fine, but you have to prune with the shears, not just plant seeds, if you want the story to conclude in a satisfying way.
Yeah, it's not getting done. He's probably trying not to have a LOTR ending, but he knows it's impossible. The only logical choice is that Jon does become a good guy and beat evil. That being said, personally, I didn't like the books. There is too much bloated writing. He will spend 30 pages trying to describe how someone took a shit. Lotr you can sit down and read it relatively quickly and be done there isn't too much more than the story.
I am the same age and I always hoped, that I would be able to read the last two books. After watching your video, I doubt it.
The problem is at this point if it does get finished it's almost certainly going to be disappointing just because of how long it's taken
@@Frothmeister that's why I'm only getting some fun facts or comparisons with the show in the meanwhile because I know it'll take me enough time to read all the material before he finally finishes it or doesn't. But no huge anticipation before that at least
Personally my biggest concern with the length of time TWOW is taking is will he be able to complete the series in his lifetime. There is still one book to go after the next and he's already in his mid-70s. It would be a real shame if he didn't get to complete what is essentially his life's work.
I agree 100% it would be a shame. But "gardener" is another term for "pantster" and as such he has no clear vision of the ending, he has ideas and a rough vision, but it is not clear. This epic in that writing style requires dedication to that project. He just has too much going on right now. Unless he abandons every other project, he will never finish that narrative.
I was just floored that with the pandemic, it still wasn’t done. Over a long period of time when many people were forced to stay in their houses, projects on hold, no parties or events to attend, I’m really surprised he didn’t use such a unique opportunity to make this book his priority.
he has no real reason to finish anything hes made his money and then some
He's bored of writing ASoIaF. He's not bored of Westeros, but the saga we know he's through spending time there
Yeah it’s like God himself was calling him on his bullshit. If a worldwide pandemic that forced him to stay at home for months on end could produce the book, nothing will.
We don't know that he didn't.
No writer wants to leave unfinished work if he or she can help it. @@qwopiretyu
I’m sure this will tick off some folks, but I’m so over hearing “he’s a Gardner writter”…. I’ve grown my own forest, harvested the wood, and built my own darn house waiting for this book.
watch season 5-8 then
@Laketwig Why are you so mean? Why would you even, what kind of person even says something like this? No, just, no.
@@paulster185 if you dont want to for him to take his time and get it right, there is the alternative.
I looked it up and I if we get to 2032 without him publishing it, it will have officially taken him longer to write Winds of Winter than the first five books combined
(according to google he started writing A Game of Thrones in 1991 and finished A Dance with Dragons in 2011)
@@NinjaFlibble 😳 please lord nooooooo
I love this channel and the kind, understanding tone that Robert strikes.
"Kind and understanding" is a great way to describe Robert and why I love this channel.
I want him as the judge if I was ever to be tried in court
💯
This channel is the best of them imo.
Yeah I don't know him, but I know that Robert is a good dude.
My personal theory is when the directors were wrapping up the show they asked about how the story was going to end. (Denarys's death and bran getting the throne as possible examples.) And GRR gave them rough outlines, which we saw in the final season. But after seeing fan reactions he has to change the ending so they won't hate the books as well.
Now he's in a corner, trying to make a new ending that makes sense, while also making the fans happy. He could be less and less confident about the ending he has planned, worrying it will have the same fan reaction as the final season of the show.
Thank you for doing a hopeful & sympathetic take on TWoW delays.
"12 years" "don't want it to be rushed" you saidthese two things close together without irony
Do you know how long Lord of the Rings took? 12 years. Robert Caro's series on Lyndon B Johnson? There have been 8-12 years between each book.
I am also bummed I don't have this 6th book of George's to enjoy. Having other books to read has really been personally helpful.
@@nicholsonfile if you don't understand the point i actually made that's fine but don't change the subject.
Does that sound kind of contradictory? Yes. But in actuality these two statements are NOT contradictory.
"Rushed" doesn't imply a specific timeline. "Rushed" just implies that you're doing it in a hasty way. In other words, doing it faster than it would organically happen or than you feel comfortable doing it with insufficient consideration.
I don't know why some people seem to have this idea that writing is like, idk, fixing a drain pipe or something. It's not. Good ideas have to come to you. Good ideas for characters, for plot twists, for prose. And while you can obviously sit down and try and you can try to get inspired and all of that stuff, at the end of the day you can only write down what comes to you. And as a writer you cannot determine what comes to you or whether it's any good. You can only decide to write it down or not.
Writing something hastily or in a rushed way basically means that you just write down the first thing that comes to you. And if it isn't as good as it could've been, or it creates plot holes or whatnot, you don't care. Or you just don't think about it. You just put it on the page. And that is not at all what I want, nor what I think most people want.
I'd rather have Martin take his time for the good ideas to come and be written down than rush by just writing down the first thing that pops into his head.
@@nicholsonfileTLOR is 3 books. TWOW is 1 book. Pretty big difference there, mate.
@@gauntlettcf5669 Also, I don't remember Tolkien publishing several other works while working on LotR...
I’m pretty sure everyone has given up on winds of winter especially George
That's pretty much a fact. Anyone who says differently, especially Martin, is gaslighting you.
The one main advantage alot of popular fantasy authors had with long series was less distractctions they were writing books while at the same time series were coming out and no internet and constant scurutiny and immediate popularity . That's alot of pressure especially with happened with the show
Awesome video! I've been hyped by Winds of Winter since I finished the last book. No matter how much it takes, the story is amazing and it will be EPIC!
My speculation, is that George might make a hellishly long Winds of Winter, to release a short-to the point Dreams of Springs, to deal a finishing blow in a way nobody expects.
In my opinion, the most important and most difficult challenge of telling a complicated story is wrapping it up cleanly. The Lord of the Rings, The Dark Tower, and Harry Potter did phenomenal jobs of wrapping things up nicely by cleverly addressing numerous plot points and providing some surprises along the way. On the other hand there are authors/screenwriters/directors (JJ Abrams?) that are good at raising interesting ideas, but are absolutely incapable of completing the thoughts. Perhaps due to some misguided notion of subverting expectations, laziness, or simply a lack of sufficient talent. I say this as an observation not a criticism. I hope I am wrong, but I am starting to think that GRRM has bitten off too much to chew. He is a magnificent author and has created a wonderful universe. But I do worry that he simply doesn't have the ability to untangle the hugely complicated story he has written thus far. The last book seemed to me to want to simplify things, but he introduced even more characters and plot lines. At some point the story needs to converge and not continue to spiral into new directions.
20 POV characters, even Tolkien kept his cast small. I think George has made his own story too complex to satisfyingly wrap up in time.
HP is full of plot holes.
I believe he could’ve finished it but it would’ve been what many writers do.. finish it just to finish if & force the ending… we saw that happen already on HBO… it sucked lol. Again the best thing he can do is leave the story to other ppl to finish in case he can’t
GRRM has the unfortunate ailment of not wanting to write an ending that someone has thought of/ is predictable.
Except too many are like myself and simply predict the most narratively satisfying conclusion. (Some get upset it was predictable in this case which is ludicrous)
Game of Thrones is written as a history more than a narrative. Scarce few satisfying endings, and contradictory in many cases. The difference is motivation, objective. My advice to GRRM would be to have the throne tied to whomever kills the night king which relies on unification as a resolution to most plot angles.
If he wants a big twist have one of the night king's lieutenants kill him in the end.
@@mandowarrior123There is no night king character in the books. 🤷
If I'm to speculate I think the story have become "too wide to handle easily" the story is like a ever branching tree with every story and plot forming it's own branch.
The tree have become so wide that tying it all together at their intended end point in a satisfying way have become a herculean task, partially for a author like him who likes to let his "branches grow freely"
I also think the time jump he intended to implement but didn't put some additional strain on his plans
Someone finished the book using A I
Might be the closest we get
@@Kibatsume1Who?
Yeah, in real history random shit happens and then historians identify a story in the mess. This is the opposite
Unlikely hypothetical, but it kind of ties into when you were talking about him adjusting and readjusting his stories on the fly...
*WHAT IF* (and it's a big "what if") he's been writing A Dream of Spring alongside Winds of Winter? Constantly bouncing back and forth between the two stories, adjusting them on the fly as he makes changes. It would definitely explain the gap between books, and give hope to "A Dream of Spring" actually being published before he retires or passes away.
It would make a lot of sense to approach such a complex story that way tbh. It would help to keep WoW’s plot more focused if he’s working on the DoS ending at the same time. Writing WOW without a clear idea of the ending he’s leading up to could risk even more complexity and plot lines being introduced that only make it longer and harder to finish. It’s also understandable that in light of all the flak he’s gotten for taking so long, he might be reluctant to release WoW without having DoS close to finished to prevent yet another long wait.
That being said, if that is how he’s going about it I understand why he hasn’t said so. I wouldn’t want to give people the impression that DoS would be right around the corner after WoW if I wasn’t certain it would be. And I’m not holding my breath lol
that would be the ultimate boss move, too bad i don't believe that is what he is doing....
@@ElementVoidX
Probably not.
Yeah I heard he is doing that and that he is getting Santa Claud and the Easter Bunny to help him revise it……
I saw other videos doing what you set out to do in this video, still I learned a lot from your video!
He’s written himself into a corner. So many characters and different ways they can go. It’s gonna be a while
The Mereeneese knot is real 😂
And he says that everytime he reads a fan theory that is close to what he was going to write he changes his plan to something new
@@10ftSamsquanchy Pretty sure he said the exact opposite
@@10ftSamsquanchythat's kind of dumb. When a series is that popular, basically every possible plot twist is going to be correctly anticipated by someone on Reddit. When you try to add unexpected twists to a story just for the sake of being unexpected, you end up with a disaster like Star Wars Episode VIII.
I have to imagine he knows how most stories will wrap up. When he dies we will find notes on how it all ends and someone else will finish it.
We only wish he was 30 years younger. I think we are all afraid he will not live long enough to finish the series. A Dream of spring may take another 10-15 years.. he will then be over 90!
Will he live that long?
Let's hope so...
Hes obese and definitely dosnt live a healthy life style..
In the world of Computer Science we have The Art of Computer Programming, at the moment a five volume set with smaller booklets with corrections and previews of later work. He's currently 85 years old and started in 1962 when he projected it would be a single volume of twelve chapters. By the time the first volume was published in 1968 the estimate was 7 volumes. He's still writing it. So we should still have hope for GRRM. :)
Btw, in writing TAOCP, he had to write programs for typesetting and layout, which resulted in the basis for, among other things, LaTeX and PDF.
74 years old, 350 lbs of nothing but fat, constantly working and travelling,...most likely won't see 77.
I agree. He did too much world building and he doesn’t know how to tie everything together to conclude it. He fell into a series that he doesn’t know how to finish and is doing other side projects instead
We got a good amount of AMAZING stories. We should be happy with what we got even tho it will not be finished,
Patience is indeed a virtue, however I feel like him being 75 years old it's becoming a race against the clock to finish.
I think the one reasonable part of the worry and crys for a finished book is from the perspective of him ever finishing the series. GRRM has been set up as the next Tolkien, an heir of sorts and the first fantasy universe to achieve something close to the complexity and overall coherence that the grand master set. That may be well and good but for Song to ever be in contention of being one of the best works of fantasy fiction, it will need to be completed. I understand the difficulties and I wish GRRM only the best for finishing his grand project but the man is in his mid 70s, hasnt publiced book 6/7 and thus not begun on the last book. So yeah, the worry is just: will it ever be finished?
He’s not finishing that book. It’s that simple. He’s doing other things.
What motivation would he have to finish SoFI after all those HBO dollars? It's probably worth it for him to get 1 more book out, but I doubt he's interested in finishing the series after that.
@@TravisHi_YTbooks make a lot of money and Winds would easily sell millions.
@@liftedmarco4976but he already has lots of money from the work he's already created and probably gets royalties from anything asoiaf related (tv shows,...). Is it worth it for him to spend the limited time he has on finishing the books vs doing other stuff he enjoys more? Like I completely understand him, if I were in his position I'd be using the money I already have to enjoy life and not force myself to write something just to make people happy.
@@liftedmarco4976He’s already got more than enough for him and his wife to live the rest of their lives lavishly doing pretty much whatever they want. He doesn’t have any kids to leave it too. At a point I would imagine the struggle of working on it isn’t worth the reward, especially when it’s clear he cares more about other projects and wants to enjoy however many years he has left.
@@liftedmarco4976 he can make (and made...) tens of millions just by signing a contract for adaptation, without making any real efforts, without producing the slightest amount of new material. A book requires tremendous efforts, and earns him absolutely nothing in comparison, dont be stupid.
I asked a friend in publishing what was the attitude in the industry to the book being published. Her answer, "Not gonna happen".
BAH HUMBUG to her and you. I need hope.
That's a little silly. It's unlikely that Winds will *never* be released. It's possible, but not the most likely outcome. With that said, since it's taken a long time, it's reasonable to lower expectation and move on.
@@nicholsonfile I mean, I wouldn't put past George destroying all he has if an ilness or other condition made him sure he can't finish the book...
love how you explain this; respect to George
Add to all the irons GRRM has in the fire as you detailed, he is also an executive producer on AMC's Dark Winds show, adapted from Tony Hillerman's books about Leaphorn and Che. While he may not be doing much day-to-day show running, I would think it would certainly take up some of his already precious time.
My theory is that as soon as he started to write about actual Targaryens, he lost interest in the "mundane" houses and politics of modern Westeros. He has a sort of dragon-sickness, his motivation centers accustomed to Balerion and The God's Eye so not even the greatest Battle on the Ice can satisfy him in the same way.
What are you saying ,are you talking about George writing Fire an Blood has taken him away from the rest of the story an is focused on House of the Dragon
@@cherylbaxter8986 Its pretty clear he is bored with a song of ice and fire and more interested in the history of westeros.
Interesting theory, it definitely seems like it. I was bored of what was going on by the time I got to the end of the books. I always found the back stories more interesting.
@@joperhophe is interested more in worldbuilding than finishing a story
@@kungalexander829 he is desperate to make a middle earth like rich world, and forgetting, Tolkien finish lord of the rings.
His problem is by the end of DoD he's got too many plates spinning. He's lost control of the story, quite literally lost the plot. He's got no idea how to pull it all together to finish it, and all these dozens of other projects are simply to distract him from that.
I blame his editors, maybe they tried but by that stage of the series he was too powerful
I 100% agree. He bit more than he can chew. He also may have lost a lot of his motivation. He must have given away a lot for the showrunners to be able to finish the series; he sees that a lot of fans were disappointed. Being involved in Elden Ring was surely more productive than fighting this gigarnoumous challenge of rounding down 5234756 parallel storyline.
I think the answer to "What was Aragorn's tax code?" is that answering every single question like that about a story while you're writing it turns it into sprawling, unfinishable mess.
I personally think he should allow himself some help from people he trust to get the books written more efficiently without it being rushed. It would allows more opinions and ideas.
I think one of the biggest problems is that GRRM keeps giving deadlines that he can't or won't commit to. Martin has offered repeated deadlines that he hasn't met:
1. In 2015, he said he wanted to have it published before Season 6 of Game of Thrones aired. In Jan 2016, he announced he hadn't met his end-of-year deadline.
2. In 2017, he said it would be released sometime that year. Never happened.
3. In April 2019, he said he didn't have a finished copy in-hand for the 2020 Worldcon New Zealand, then Air New Zealand had his permission to imprison him on White Island. Didn't happen. Neither the book, nor his imprisonment.
4. In February 2021, he said he was hopeful of finishing in 2021.
The first rule of managing expectations is: Don't. Make. Promises. You. Can't. Keep. Honestly, I think people would have more patience for him if every time someone asked him, he just said "I am working on it, it will be done when it's done".
This is actually hilarious looking at his history and how off he was wtf. How can u be so off on when you think you’ll finish as the writer of ur own story? Naw man this guy ain’t finishing the series rip
If he’s a gardener then all those times he promised a deadline and couldn’t follow up prolly meant he fucking found himself having 20 extra plot lines. Then when tryna wrap those up and giving a new deadline, fuck he’s wrote himself 40 more. Rinse and repeat.
I don’t trust anything he says. I think he’s prolly done 50% of the book if he says 75%.
Tbf he does say that now lol
" Hopes to be finished" aren't really self imposed deadlines, they are just hopes.
I think it is a coin toss between which more likely, Tolkien finishing the Silmarillion or Martin finishing ASOIAF
you didnt specify JRR Tolkien
.....or The Doors Of Stone by Rothfuss. Which I honestly completely disregard at this point, the guy is a fraud
/LOVE Agree fiercely and 100% with your open salvo of perspective on it. The potential he amassed in that story-whether or not he matches all my hopes for characters and plotlines...and we all know this won't happen for us. It is his story he is sharing with us- if he takes the time till he is pleased-mostly- it will be a read for the ages. Also a fan of the world building. The History with help from Elio and Linda alone was as though Merlin himself was stirring rich herbs into the imagination of my mind. When it is as ready as the perfectionist can get it-hopefully I can schedule some time to dive in "Never Ending Story style" Thank you Brother in Geekdom! Fare thee well.
Mark Twain, 1906: "As long as a book would write itself I was a faithful and interested amanuensis and my industry did not flag; but the minute that the book tried to shift to *my* head the labor of contriving its situations, inventing its adventures and conducting its conversations, I put it away and dropped it out of my mind."
We have to remember that Geroge is a member of WGA. As a response to the studios refusing to negotiate in good faith, He's been striking from writing Winds for 13 years.
Cool beans. As mentioned above, that means AI can finish the work he's not competent enough to complete.
That doesn’t effect authors
That only affects screenwriting
Woosh.
Oh dang I just realized this was a joke... I swa this video at like 1am hahaha
Rereading Malazan this year and I have so much respect for Erikson for pulling it off. 3.5 million words, tons of POV characters, 3 continents, hundreds of thousands of years of history, and it's completed. To boot, The Crippled God is hailed as one of the greatest finales in epic fantasy's history. And the contract gave him a deadline!!!
We got a WoT ending, it would be great if we could get an ASOIAF ending too.
Got any advice for an aspiring Malazan reader? I read Gardens of the Moon not understanding s thing that happened and DNF'd Deadhouse Gates after about 200 pages because I just didn't have a clue what I Was reading.
@@rhahnabunaidI wanna start that series ,is book one even worth it ?
@@desertraider8628 I would still say yes. There's no doubt that they're incredibly well written and Erikson truly is a word smith. They're just more difficult to read than your average fantasy book, because Erikson doesn't hold your hand and gives very little exposition. So, throughout, you will have to pay close attention to what you're reading and accept that you won't understand everything that's going on during the first couple of books, or even on your first read of the series. But, of course, this isn't for everyone. For me, English is also my second language, so I guess I had a more difficult time with it than most. But still, even after giving up on book two, I really want to give it another shot because I could tell that there is likely nothing to ever top the reading experience if you make it through. And me giving up wasn't because of the source material; it was because I was hitting the ceiling of my own limitations at the time.
Honestly it would be quite difficult if English is your second language, so it's super commendable that you made it through book 1!
I have to admit, and this may have come from me reading fantasy for most of my life, I really enjoyed being thrown in with no exposition. It creates a unique experience (which Erikson had when reading Dune, and wanted to use that model) where you are constantly filling in data points and shifting relationships.
Even Mark Lawrence, celebrated fantasy author that he is, didn't like Gardens of the Moon. When you don't know that the azath can pop up, it feels jarring.
My advice:
Read Deadhouse Gates. You don't have to reread Gardens to do it. Deadhouse was written ~8 years after Gardens and is a smoother read. It's a beautiful story in the end, for many people it is the first fantasy that makes them cry. That's an experience you've gotta have if you haven't already.
Trust in Erikson. He makes mistakes for sure, but even the out of nowehere stuff that happens in Deadhouse Gates comes back in book 4, book 5, book 6, and later. In retrospect, it's insane that he pulls off what he does.
Take notes if you have to! Visit the wiki if you have to, and note that they separate the spoilers.
Also, for transparency, I don't understand everything that happened lol. Hence my lovely reread.
Lastly, his interviews on CZcams can be very helpful. As you finish each book, I recommend A Critical Dragon who makes brilliant content alone and with Erikson. The author is very intelligent and he makes odd decisions at times, but he also makes very compelling arguments for his decisions.
Structurally, Malazan is very complex. It's not a series like WoT or ASOIAF, which have their own complexities. It's duologies and a trilogy and a huge overarching series all in one.
I think you'll have an easier time with Malazan today. And I think for any fan of fantasy, even when it's not easy, it's incredibly rewarding.
Malazan is a masterpiece. Gets better every time you reread it
Can we just take a moment to acknowledge the madness of writing 3-4 different versions of orders of arrival to find out which one works best. A good author shouldn’t need to fully write the different versions to figure out which one works best. This is just indecisiveness, and procrastination to avoid making a decision
Agreed. All he had to do was _plot_ the key points of each branch out. Basically turn it into a synopsis of each pathway and then see which one works best for his ultimate vision. There is NO reason for someone like George to write each branch as actual parts of the novel considering how off path his writing goes anyway. It's not showing his dedication to his craft, it's him unable to plot and plan well enough.
@@morlath4767 lmao plot the key points? Why, that sounds like an architect writer, and don't you know George is a GARDENER?! /s
I think GRRM has a bug up his ass about approaching story writing in anything other than the way he does it. You can tell based on the writing program he uses.
Anything that would make writing more convenient or easy is dismissed by him because he's a stubborn git.
@@pax6833There's definitely an ego thing going on with the guy, that's for sure.
Fascinating to hear about his attention to detail, writing out a section of story in different ways of when people arrive and how they interact. Love his attention to detail here. I love these books, and trust him to make them the best they can be. (AFOC was a slog for me, but thats okay)... I hope that the scope of TWOW sets a more focused path for ADOS, maybe allowing him to finish that one quicker
Let’s be honest at this point. This story will never be finished. Age will catch up with him before he finishes at this rate
I think that he's already finished it and is waiting for it to be published posthumously.
@@lilitharam44That makes no sense, and he has said it’s not true. Why do people make stuff like this up?
@@Karlonstark Because it makes sense.
Honestly, with so many pov characters and side plots, it’s a good time for there to be some cataclysmic enemy who comes in and starts killing off characters. Good thing there are White Walkers in the story!
Euron also might be a character killer.
Haha Stephen King said as much in his interview!
@@pushista9322 Yep-he had a similar issue in The Stand, but of course King just killed off most of the cast to make it easier to write. Then everybody left is dealing with the horror of everybody dying, so it makes for dramatic storytelling.
Inb4: I have two theories that aren't mutually exclusive.
1) He just started to enjoy life more and what started as creative break turned into a spiral that he can't get out of. He no longer feels the drive to sit down for several weeks and get the foundation done, instead just noting bits here and there but never doing the treacherous work of connecting and polishing them.
2) He tried several times to connect the dots and come up with good ending but since he's more of a "just write and see where it takes me" guy (my pure speculation, just an asumption to get this theory going) rather than thorough planner, he can't really conclude the story at the same quality as he can add to it and therefore doesn't want to publish. It's way easier to create captivating setup than it is to tie everything together. It's easy to add mysterious cool characters that hint at something greater, it's hard to stop those characters from taking over the story, while keeping their plotline going and keeping their characters and actions intact.
Curious to see what the video is about as I've just accepted that the books are over and haven't really checked onto the progress.
The process of writing several versions reminds me of my ADHD brain having an idea and then running through several variables unable to settle on one - no wonder my fanfiction ideas never left my head 😂
But seriously, I can list a few factors:
1. The story is vast, sprawling and complex. And yet, he cannot expand it any further. He must force the vine to grow in a specific direction, so things start coming closer together again in the run up to the end. His writing style doesn't sound suitable to finishing stories.
Now, it's not about dropping clues, foreshadowing, and prophecies (which is always more fun) but paying them off.
2. The longer you put off a task, the more it's looming over you. And if doing the thing doesn't sound exciting enough, you procrastinate even more.
3. The negative reception of GOT finale. Vast majority of people found the conclusion of the show disappointing. And even story beats that came directly from George were so poorly presented that people simply didn't connect with them. If I were him, I would feel that disappointment in my bones. He may write the story in a way that everything makes 100% sense, but this preview reaction probably didn't add motivation to his writing endeavours. I wouldn't be surprised if part of him struggled with staying on course with his planned ending and wanted to give people what they seem to want. And don't come at me about there being no happy ending in Westeros. There were plenty of love stories, peaceful years, and unlikely victories. No one was expecting Disney but bittersweet can have many forms. Personally, I consider the ending of LOTR bittersweet, and some may call it happy 🤷🏼♀️
Ain’t no one reading allat
If he is upset about fans' reactions to the show, then he is unwise with his own emotions. Taking it personally just doesn't make sense, considering how many factors contribute to the reaction to the show.
I've personally gotten over waiting for WoW... George has given so much and I don't dare asking for more. The dunk & egg books, Fire & Blood, Game of Thrones. I'm simply grateful I was able to experience this story as it reached it's max popularity. Stories like these need to be made and shared. Thank you George!!!
WoW has been out for a long time. Hardcore servers went live today!
I would rather he would stop promising. I don't mind enjoying what we have. But I feel like a kid and it's been 12 christmases and he has promised for that bike. I'm getting older and it's starting to sound more and more bs. I'm a realist and not a blind fan, huge fan, but not blind.
I personally don't agree with comments like the first answer you received, but yeah... I can't say I disagree with it. I mean, he had a majn job. I refuse to follow any of the other stories he wrote about the ASOIAF because he should have finished his main story first. Everything else is embellishments. I have no use for any of them if the main story is to go unfinished. I don't care for the sidestories if there's not a main, satisfying story. Knowing it's not finished, why would anyone even start reading it. How many people, after he'll have sadly passed, will start his books knowing that? He decided to dedicate overstretch himself, but it was HIS choice. And he's entitled to it, just as much those of us who decide to stop supporting him for it are entitled to their decision. I really hope he's just pulling a massive prank on us and is waiting to give the last books to the public only after his passing, so he won't hear any critics about what he decided to write. Because otherwise, I'll have to accept that he decided to waste his time on countless, easy-to-avoid/write-in-shorter-terms backstories without finishing that amazing, wonderful, intricate story I started reading as a 13 year old.
You don't dare ask for more? The story isn't over; you are owed more. This isn't a case of a standalone story being finished and fans asking for just a sequel, this is a case of one long story being told across multiple books, which is currently unfinished and may remain unfinished forever if George doesn't stop procrastinating. WoW was promised to you, and you'd have every right to ask for it.
I feel the same. Considering how many authors we have access too provides us with a wealth of reading for multiple lifetimes.
I’m honestly worried we’re not ever going to get to hear the true end to the Song of Ice and Fire story. With how long Winds of Winter is taking, I wouldn’t be surprised if George passes away before he completes a Dream of Spring. At this rate he’d be 90+ years old when he finally drops Dream of Spring and that’s assuming he finishes and releases Winds in the next couple years
Yeah I am not even sure if WInds of Winter will be released before he dies let alone Dream of Spring. Best case would be someone else finishing it some decades from now.
I've already given up on ever seeing his end to the story. Wouldn't surprise me if someone else carries on the books once he's gone though.
@@philwilson4167 As someone who never got to read Alexie Panshin's "The Universal Pantograph", I can only look towards you and ask "First time?".
Charles Dickens died while writing "The Mystery of Edwin Drood". It was being published in installments and Dickens died after part 6 of 12 was published. Dickens had apparently kept the whole thing in his head, as no detailed plot line of the story was left behind nor a resolution to the mystery. Dickens had told a friend that there was a planned finish, divulging some details, but Dickens did not want to spoil the serialization, so the murderer and the motive were not given out.
@richardbell7678 I'm well aware it happens often, that writers don't get to finish their work before they die. And there are lots of legitimate reasons why it happens. But I can't think of another author off the top of my head who has actively chosen to pursue other works over completing the singular work of fiction that made them a success in the first place. And it's so blatantly a case of him choosing the things that are more lucrative over asoiaf.
You ended the video with "And then we all be dreaming of spring" correction I bet it should be "And then we all wanna be dreaming of spring". He already say that winter is comming, and it's gonna be harsh. Jajaja Cheers mate, love your videos.
As someone who wrote and rewrote and scrapped and resumed and eventually abandoned a PhD dissertation, I have a lot of sympathy for GRRM. I just had one department of professors telling me to stop being so precious and just turn it in. GRRM has the whole world hassling him, and his project is way more difficult than mine ever was. I also like to write in order to discover what I think. That's great for writers of essays and other smaller works. But I'm sure the joy of discovering what would happen is decades in the past for GRRM. Now he just needs to do the plumbing for a city's worth of plot, and that's not necessarily fun writing.
Honestly I think the truth is he doesn't want to finish it (at least, doesn't plan on finishing Dreams himself).
Resolving the Meereenese knot amongst the dozen other plot lines in a clean manor in a way that doesn't anger fans is a f*&*king nightmare. Meanwhile there are many funner distraction like con events and side writing projects like Elden Ring.
I think Martin, consciously or subconsciously, knows there is no way to cleanly resolve ASoIaF. So, he plans to polish Winds to as much of a sheen as he can even if it takes twice as long as i should, so HIS written books end on a high note. Then A Dream of Spring will be left for someone else to resolve after he dies. He'll leave whoever that is a mountain of notes and ideas, but let them fall on the sword of resolving the series.
Tolkien didn't do that. I have no strong reason to assume Martin would be any different.
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzraelwhy does one indicate the other?
@@bassistguy13 Because when we speculate we look at what has happened in similar situations. I can't think of a single author who died with an entire novel unwritten but let some other random person finish their magnum opus.
@@SupremeGrand-MasterAzrael Robert Jordan.
@@lemmypop1300 I don't know enough about the Wheel of Time series to give my opinion on that. Haven't read that series. Do people like the books that Jordan did not write? How were the last 3 books received? Is the tone the same? I know even less about the Sanderson fellow.
Steven King, after the epilogue in the first book of The Dark Tower series, when typing about thé monumental task of finishing his own series, said that once an author loses passion for a major work in progress it's impossible to inorganically manufacture and finish it satisfactorily.
That's somewhat an effect of the position in the story. At the start you can do anything. Be wildy creative. But no matter what, the ending is 'a job'. Hard to be as passionate about.
You now have responsibilities. You must conform to accepted narrative tropes, to make a satisfying ending.
It's taking a long time because he isn't writing it. Lol. I'm serious. He has no intention of finishing it, isn't even trying. He is not working on it. He just won't say this.
I was once so obsessed with this series. Could talk about minor players like Lyn Corbray and less-known lore like when the Boltons actually had their own kingdom... obsessed. Now, I am not sure I would even read Winds of Winter if it came out. It won't come out, but regardless, I wouldn't read it because (1) I would have to spend the enormous amount of time rereading the old books just to remember everything and enjoy the new book like I once would have, which I won't do because (2) the last book won't ever come out, so why bother. Same reason I can't in good faith ever recommend the series to anyone.
I see people optimistic like: "He will finish, he's always been a slow writer!" "He's already written so much," "He is 3/4 of the way done according to reports!" "GRRM says he is working on the book almost every day"... I used to be like that too... You know when that was? *7 years ago* ...
I legitimately do not think Winds of Winter -- let alone the last book -- is ever going to come out. I don't think he has any intention on finishing it and isn't even trying, but won't say that because he will make people hate him and publishers sue him lol... I don't believe he is even working on it. I don't blame him. He was an impoverished screenwriter his whole life and now has loads of money in his twilight years... obviously he doesn't plan on spending precious time holed up and writing a very long, very complex book. But he won't admit this.
It's quite clear that the style and pace of the story changes in the third book!
Nice to see your channel doing so well. Congratulations!
Thanks for summarising everything there is to consider when trying to answer this question - i tried multiple times to find an answer on the internet but was quickly either confronted with very emotional discussions and complains or overwhelmed by the amount of text i would have to read on GRRM blog. So thank you very much for organising the information!
And lets hope that we will soon be able to discuss the contents of winds of winter, not the publication date 😊
I think the explanation is probably simpler than most wish it to be.
When you're close to wrapping up, you would have to have the remaining story (the book(s) after this) pretty much done too from a planning point of view.
That will obviously take a lot longer.
In Deep Geek: This is not a defense, if you're looking for that, look elsewhere.
Also In Deep Geek: So here's all the reasons why you should just chill out and let the man be.
thanks for saving me 14 minutes
I think part of the problem is that the ending to the show was so poorly received that he now has to consider if he wants to end his books in a similar way or come up with an entirely new ending.
It wasn't so much the ending but the dramatic dropoff in dialogue and writing that people hated. He shouldn't have that problem :)
He would have too much rewriting to do on books that were already finished, but just needed polishing.
If Benioff and Weiss were not following his outline, why didn't he complain, get a lawyer to halt production, sue HBO and Benioff and Weiss?
@@tessdurberville711 Because he would lose that case
ASOIF will end up like some of Tolkiens final works where Chris his son finished them. With GRRM it will be the editor friends of his.
The difference is that Tolkien finished his core work (LOTR) and some side works on the Middle Earth universe. Also before writing the Lord of The Rings he planned the whole world, languages, races cultures, legends and small tales of the universe he created. It was "easier" for him to just plan the adventure, instead of creating stuff on demand as it happens with RR Martin.
I rewatch this every few months just to remind myself.
"Rather it'd be good than rushed." well if he finished it tomorrow, I wouldn't say that 12 years is a rush so...
I've already gone through the 5 stages of grief a loooong time ago...at this point, I am happy that we got the 5 books we have! I've read his other works and they are great as well...just sucks that it appears that he's painted himself into a corner. C'est la Vie mon ami...
Same here. At least there's plenty of fanfiction tackling the various directions the story could go, and since the last few seasons of the tv show were so atrocious even the most amateurish fanfiction seems quite competent in comparison! 😄
That's a healthy attitude. We can be grateful that he gave us three great books and two additional books.
whatever will be, will be, we got some nice books to read.
Ditto, I was really annoyed with the TV series ending, and realized GRRM is unlikely to ever finish the series.
Having said that, Westeros is definitely worth a revisit in the future, and I thank him for the world, characters & intrigue he created (even if it's based on the war of the roses which I should probably learn about).
I sincerely hope the delay is because he is actually writing both Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring in tandem, so that he has them both finished should anything happen to him. But I also realize that is a fool’s hope.
He's said before that he isn't unfortunately.
Part of me wants him to go absolutely batshit insane with the story, like putting an alien invasion ala Independence Day in Westeros and having centaurs with shark arms as weapons be the aliens, Drogon suddenly speaking in Ye Olde English and Tyrion finding out Tywin was just a hologram and he still lives, but he's on the Moon. So a Zero G battle ensues after Tyrion farts so hard he rockets himself up there. All while the lyrics of ACDC's Hell's Bells play in the background.
winter may come but the same thing cant be said of the winds of winter.
Yes. But he said that he was months away more than once and told his editor that he would have it done more than once in like 5 months or so. That was over 7 years ago. He also said many years ago that he wasn’t going to write anything else until he delivers Winds. So it is completely fair for fans to be angry with him for deceiving us and going back on his word about not writing anything else until it is finished. If you looks at how much he had written in 2012 and add how much he wrote during the pandemic, it’s almost like he wrote NOTHING between 2012-2019. If there wasn’t a pandemic that essentially forced him to stay inside and away from parties, red carpets, vacations, football games, and myriad other trips and events that he filled his time with then we probably never would’ve gotten the book. We STILL might not get it. I’m at the bargaining stage of grief where I just want to get winds and a summary of what happens to all of the main and larger supporting characters in ADOS. I’ve given up on getting ADOS or it being the end since he has added multiple books twice to the story before. But who knows? Maybe he will surprise me and write both 1500+ books and have them published along with the second half of fire and blood and all of the dunk and egg stories. But I’ve given up hope on that happening. We shall see everyone
I think this is what all these "In defence of GRRM" videos gloss over - the dishonesty of the author. One thing is to admit you want to enjoy what's left of your life and the fruits of your labor, quite another - to keep fans on edge pretending you're still writing. He at least owes fans some honesty for making him successful.
He said he cares about his legacy - I wonder what kind of legacy he'll have after such behavior and most likely not finishing the remaining books and lying about it.
Jesus Christ dude, calm down. You act like the past 11 years have been nothing but a pleasure cruise for the guy. He spent time working on half a dozen spin-off shows, watched the guys he trusted to finish his show piss on his legacy, and had to deal with the deaths of a multitude of friends and loved ones.
The world he’s created has inspired millions of people and permanently redefined the fantasy genre, and the fact of the matter is that he hasn’t been “lying” or “robbing the fans.” Winds was never ours to begin with; if George had dropped dead a day after a dance with dragons was published, that would be it. It’s only by the luck that he’s still alive and the effort that he’s put in that we’ll get book 6- maybe 7 if he actually picks up the pace, but even I’m not that optimistic.
You’re acting like he’s personally scammed/betrayed you when in reality, his release schedule was always at his discretion.
Bingo
he will croak way before finishing winter, and maybe then his assistants will finish the series
@@thedemonhater7748He’s been lying to his fans for years, period.
one thing is 100% sure: he will NEVER finish A dream of spring alone. IMPOSSIBLE.
He will most likely join Kentaro Miura as someone who will die without ever having finished their Magnum Opus.
Even though he has explicitly said this isn't the case I still choose to hope that it's taken so long because he's actually finishing both Winds and Dream currently and when he finally announce one is done the other will quickly follow. I know how much he's hated this pressure and he knows releasing Winds will get him a respite of approximately 30 seconds before people start asking how long until the next book is finished? I just don't believe he would willingly put himself through that again if he could help it.
@@paradoxicalbum4489 yeah right, that's just a major cope attempt, mate.
I am going to be objective about it that he is a fast writer for writing those side quests that distract from the main story line.
I have made my peace with the next book in the series never being published. I enjoyed reading the books that have been published. I have plenty other books by plenty other writers to read. Martin appears to be having a ton of fun writing other things, involving himself in other projects, and good luck to him. If he can get it finished and published then great.
I think he knows he bit way more than he could chew, and with the pressure growing more and more on him to finish it and given he's not a young man anymore and with the ever growing popularity of the series and the horrible ending to the show and him knowing that this IS his magnum opus and his life's work, he needs to finish it out of obligation to set things right, but at the same time I think he knows he can't possibly deliver and meet the insanely high expectations and he'd rather just leave it all behind and write other stuff that he'd have fun writing without all this pressure.
I know he loves the world of ASoIAF, but I don't think he's having fun writing it anymore, at least when it comes to the main books.
But on a hopeful note, I think WoW is the big problem and if he finishes it and gets it right, I think it'll be a lot easier to write the final book and should take less time to do so... hopefully.
@@LP1ToTheEndOfTimeI agree, if he can finish WoW, the chances of ADoS releasing are wayyy higher. WoW is where all the plot points need to reconnect, so once he’s done that the conclusion will be much easier
12:08 This is only technically accurate.
Wheel of Time has about 680 more named characters (2782) but the audiobook narration is split up between Kate Reading and Michael Kramer with each reading different chapters depend on if it focuses more on female or male characters. It is entirely possible that 40-60% of the characters are not voiced by both narrators especially if they only appear for a few chapters.
So the WoT audiobooks have more speaking characters but the ASOIAF audiobooks are all read by one narrator. As I said, the record is only technically true based on the narrator but not true based on the voiced characters.
Rosamund Pike (who plays Moiraine on the Amazon WoT show) is currently re-recording the WoT audiobooks by herself and is up to book 4 out of 14. When she finishes then ASOIAF will no longer hold the Most Characters in a Series Voiced By a Single Narrator record.
she will never finish the audiobooks, the show will be cancelled soon after season 3, the too many changes, the character phisically swaps attribute, the lack of consistency in the magic system the lack of understanding of culture geography, the witcher made the same mistake maybe im wrong but many book fans were angry at the show come on the dragonreborn being female, egwene ressurecting Nynaeve fully burn with no experience of channeling bad staff to walk over, blacks aiel
@carlogiurizzato2441 MASSIVE WOT fan. grew up reading the books, and every time a new book came out 7 up, reread most of the series to catch up. couldnt watch more than 5 minutes of the TV show. turned off at the initial voice over "...search for the dragonborn, be it a boy or a girl" spat in the face of the entire premise of the magic and world building. blegh
@@carlogiurizzato2441 that won’t change how potentially well the audiobooks will sell. I mean… it might in the nebulous sense that it loses out on potential readers that would’ve started the books based on the hype a new season might bring, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t still be worth having her record the rest of the series.
I mean, if it was worth it to have her narrate up to book 4, those readers are likely going to want to continue and that has no bearing on whether the show continues 🤷♂️
The concept of the Meereenese knot is a great way to communicate the difficulty and complexity of such an undertaking. As little as I am invested in the book's release, and as much as I like to think that I am fully understanding of that, it strikes me that whenever I don't stop to let that sink in, I still find myself falling into the trap of thinking "how long can it take to type out a sequence of words describing the story in your head?" It's easy for an avid fan to read one book as such and have zero concept of the sheer amount of work it took to organize those words just so, to say nothing of the creative process of imagining the underlying stories to begin with, and filtering, editing, style and consistency checking, changing your mind and trying again, etc.
My theory is that the author has decided that someone else would need to figure out a compilation of his drafts akin to Silmarion. If he has so many variants of the same story points, but also a clear vision for the main plot points, to an extent it is more logical to complete and publish what he can in the time he has instead of waisting all his resources on 1 story which on top of everything already has an ending in the form of a tv show.
When/if the book does come out, I will def buy it.
A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to...
Yeah, that works because Gandalf can live for centuries. Georgie boy can’t
@@stingerjohnny9951 A little entitled I see.
@@shaunhall960No, just realistic.
@@shaunhall960 Entitled? I stopped caring about this book years ago, I’ve already accepted that it’s coming out when Half Life 3 Is, im just pointing out that George MIGHT have a TINY bit less time on his hand than Gandalf did.
This doesn’t apply at all as GRRM has missed many of his own self-imposed deadlines, far from completing Winds “precisely when he means to”
I saw Bernard Cornwell in Guildford Theatre a few years back (he is friends with both George and Sean Bean) and one of the things he said was a writer cannot have writers block. At the end of the day it is their job to be a writer and there is now excuses. There is no excuse for George.
Because he's old, he's rich, he's not hungry anymore as you can all see.
This was a really good watch. Now, do one for the King killer fandom! That bitterness needs attention, too.
Let's just be honest with ourselves. That book will never see the light of day.
I mean it 100% will. Regardless if he dies before he finishes it, the book will be edited and released. And then we will never get a conclusion to the series.
I think he'll release it after he dies so he doesn't have to listen to the reviews. It has a lot of hype and may not Luce up to expectations.
Been honest with myself for years saying how this won’t come out
this will come out. The last one no. Not a doctor but he looks like the least healthy old man on the planet. Someone else will have to finish it.
@@boop5725I've come to the conclusion that we will never see it, and worse yet, I feel like GRRM has zero intention of finishing.
I used to be ASOIAF obsessed, but in all honesty, I've basically forgotten about it....I was never interested in House of the Dragon because we already know the story (Blood Moon would have been better as the mysteries associated with the North, the Children of the Forest and the First Men IS the most interesting plot element.) and I've basically lost interest
Can you imagine if Stephen King didn't finish the Dark Tower, he got hit by a transit van and nearly died but still managed to finish it.
And the ending blew my mind the first time I read it. Totally unexpected.
He should ask Bradon Sanderson for advice, that guy writes with the speed of light
I'm so glad I'm not some big spiffy author right now... I have no pressure for my second book or the prequel I have been working on at the same time XD. But now I'm interested in reading his books to see what all the fuss is about.