What will the Prologue to the Winds of Winter be about?
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
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I'm glad I'm not elderly... My grandfather is about to turn 92 years old and has been waiting on this book for almost two decades.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that.
I'm sorry bro. That's one reason I wish I could live forever. Someone will finish this series one day
@@thomaslance5428 there has been times I have made a life choice or decided not to do something because it carried a risk of me dying and I refuse to go before a dream of spring
@@zacmccollum7144 Nope. GRRM has made it very clear in multiple interviews that he will never allow anyone to finish his novels should he die before they are completed. He has left stict instructions with wife, children and numerous lawyers to destroy what remains and to sue anyone who even attempts a fiction in the same world he created. He has always had a zero tolerance for this kind of stuff in any if his works.
@@zacmccollum7144 hope not.
Damn. I remember when this channel has like 20k subscribers. 711k is crazy. Shoutout to Robert for all the hard work.
Bump, bump, bump this to top, everybody to the bumpy bump!
Right! I do too! Robert is a legend!
712k now
its 712 now
714!
Prester is a good choice for the POV, and you're right that GRRM probably built him up in Jaime's estimation for that reason. Personally though, I hope it's Lady Sybell Westerling (Spicer). Of all the characters on that wagon train, hers is the head I'd most like to see into. She could tell us a lot about Tywin's machinations on the Red Wedding, the politics of the Westerlands and Riverlands, and her own family history, including the magic of her mother, Maggy the Frog. Plus, having Nymeria kill someone who betrayed the Starks would be great poetic justice! Great video as always.
Great point, I totally forgot that she was Maggy the Frog's granddaughter...
I take every bit of justice for Robb I can take :')
I like this a lot and can see some good potential. But Martin isn't clever enough. I have no hope he can pull it off. Give Sanderson the notes and let him finish it in my son's lifetime.
If we don't get to get inside her head, we will def still get some shit on her family background. There is no way around that in text. You will get some satisfation-but! There is some background in Fire and Blood and some in what Kevan says about her when talking about how he would let his son marry a Westerling...but never a Spicer. That Westerling was ill to marry her lol
Because she can give so much information is why GRRM won't use her. He would rather obfuscate things. That's why we like his writing.
Jeyne Westerling is the granddaughter of Maggy the Frog??
If I ever get famous enough for a biography, I want Robert to narrate it lol. Most calming voice in the genre
SO HAPPY YOU MENTIONED HIM SAYING THE POV MIGHT NOT DIE. I’ve been repeating it for years and all the big channels ignore it and - it just feels great to see it in a video.
I'm more worried about the author dying...
@@ObsydianShade My fear, exactly!!!!
Perhaps now in the prologue, someone will be born or reborn
Chett didn't die in his POV. He wet his pants but he didn't die till a later Samwell chapter. It's silly to say epilogue or prologue POV characters die given this blatant "exception".
The "epilogue" to A Game of Thrones though might have ended with the death and resurrection of Dany. There's that mysterious shift in POV where we're told what other characters see finding Dany in the remains of the funeral pyre. A similar shift was noted in a Victarion chapter.
Catelyn died though.
04:48 Robert misspoke here. The Tullys were Lords Paramount of the Riverlands, not the Reach, as most of you will know.
Thank you for running through each prologue character. Saved me googling it lol
RIP to all the fans who will die before the book will be finished, which is every single person reading this comment.
I had doubts about seeing GTA 6 and it got announced. I’d be 100% more elated to see just an announcement of a winds of winter
I won't be able to RIP
There are fans who have died since ADWD came out
this hits hard😢
I think that the wolf pack directly attacking 400 soldiers is a bit too much.
My idea is that it's the Blackfish and Riverlands survivors who launch an attack, and as they win the Lannister forces scatter. That's where the wolves come in, hunting down the fleeing Lannisters.
Plus, George likes to create puzzles. Having multiple forces add to the confusion, helping him to obfuscate things.
Not sure if this is just a coincidence but:
AGOT - beyond the wall
ACOK - in the south
ASOS - beyond the wall
AFFC - in the south
ADWD - beyond the wall
Somewhere in the south seems a safe bet. I agree with the person who said Sybelle Spicer for the PoV. Stoneheart attacking Jeyne's transport seems an excellent shout.
My guess is POV will be Sybelle Spicer. That in the prologue will have Jeyne westerling caravan being intercepted by lady stoneheart. Catelyn will capture Jeyne & execute Sybelle.
Excellent thinking, I suspect you may be correct
The timing is all wrong for that. They leave riverrun mid dance of dragons. In that time Jaime has travelled to raventree lifted the siege gone to penny tree run off with Brienne. Then have enough time for word to get back to kings landing when Cersei was still in jail. Then Cersei has her walk of punishment then kevan is killed by Varys. If the caravan was attacked we would have heard about it in the last book.
@@kasey670 I haven't read the books, but didn't the dance of dragons happen well over a century before this series started?
@@allthatishere fifth book is called "A Dance with Dragons", that's what they probably meant
This is a fantastic shout. Fits perfectly.
I'm glad Martin doesn't feel chained to bad tv writers. It's like they didn't know what they were doing, at least towards the end, writing themselves into corners. Martin, on the other hand, has had this stuff stewing in his subconscious for YEARS.
at this point it's stewing for so many years i hope it did not fizzle away
Writing himself into corners for decades you mean.
Writing himself into corners for decades, you mean?
I think what happened is that Martin’s ending was not too far off from the ending in the show, which had terrible reception. So he had to toss out years of work and try to rewrite something else. Combine that with being sidetracked by dozens of different projects to build his wealth, and you have a recipe for disaster. This book will not come out before he dies.
@@sannyassi73why copy
This channel is the only thing that still keeps me in this fascinating but unfinished universe. Kudos to Robert!
The Bible volume 2 hitting the shelves long before I get to read this prologue
The Bible 2, Electric Boogaloo.
the bible 2 the newer testament staring jod and gesus
You uhhhhhh... You know that the Bible already got a Volume 2, right? Old and New?
Part 3. Sadly there is already an old and new testament
You mean the Quran...
My guess is Jeyne's mother Lady Spicer will be the pov.
It would be poetic justice if she's killed by a wolf. ^^
The one thing that makes me doubt it will be her POV is that she sort of already dumped out her whole purse for Jaime Lannister - she told him everything she did while conspiring against Robb, so what else is there to learn from her as opposed to being within an unknown entity? I like that the prologue POVs are nearly unheard-of characters because we get entirely fresh information.
@@Levacque good point!
Glory to The Riverlands! 🐟
In deep geek and quin the gm in the same day. God is good
Praise the Old Gods and the New!
We’re eating good today
All the time.
This is a very good breakdown of possibilities, thank you!! I think you are spot on. Nymeria will attack! My money is on Ser Forley Prester being the point of view. The big question is, will the pack kill Edmure and Jeyne or will he? Could they kill everyone, afterall doesnt matter how big the pack is, 400 soldiers is no joke, right? Or will the soldiers end up killing Nymeria - maybe this prompts Arya to abandon the faceless men and come back to Westeros? She would feel it, right? This could be a good way to solve several threads: wolf pack finished, Edmure and Jeyne dead, Lannisters lose hostages and many soldiers, succession in Riverlands and North gets more open for Sansa to claim it, Arya gets incentive to head back. If the prologue goes this way it would help move the story more quickly. Also, imagine the shock of so many important charcteres dying in the prologue!
Great analysis and assessment! I've actually kind of said goodbye to the books because I can no longer believe that the series will be completed - but you've given me a renewed approach today, as well as you obviously know the books. The only thing that bothers me are the film images, because the film version completely lost me after the second or third season and I just found it absurd by the end.
It's been 13 years since ADWD, at this point I've just about lost hope :(
and interest
I've long since bought into the idea that GRRM either doesn't know how to finish the series or simply doesn't really want to. It's not like he hasn't been writing - he's written lots of things since ADWD. 13 years since the last book isn't simply writer's block - he either doesn't know how to finish it or doesn't care to because he's bored with it.
@@PalmelaHanderson I think there's some spite mixed in because everywhere he goes he gets hassled about it too.
@@PalmelaHanderson I remember when HBO announced a host of new shows, and a fan asked him if he was going to be involved in one, and he, not reading the room at all, said, no I will be involved in all four!
A big chunk of Winds of Winter is written already. My best guess: it will come out eventually. We will never see A Dream of Spring.
It will definitely set the tone for the book of swathes of characters dying.
Very interested to hear IDG's educated guess. Ty so much for the continued amazing content.
Nothing because it will never be written
Yeah I’m afraid you’re very right.
😭
I’m confident at least this part has been written
Booo
Oh the prologue is written. That I don’t doubt.
It’ll just never be released
Thank you again Robert
great job as always, Robert. can't wait for the next one. thanks!
I love these videos. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us!
Only years later when I read again ADWD I realized the prologue with Varamyr paralleled Jon Snow's ending, suggesting that his soul had entered the Ghost.
Another great video. Love listening to you talk about agot. Keep upnthe great work. Looking forward to the next one
I think this is a really cool prediction, well thought out. Nice work!
Great video, it's a shame that we will never know since this book will never see the light of day 😢
So excited for this video.
Masterful video my man!
What a masterpiece of a video, once again!
Great vid as always IDG. Interesting thoughts / theory IDG , i think this prologue scenario could work really well on many levels. I had been leaning more towards LSh but perhaps underestimated the size of the Lannister force protecting Jeyne's caravan , especially considering their preparedness with them on the alert for any attack. I was between LSh and possibly even the Blackfish maybe converging unknowingly at the same time with the same aim. That would make for an interesting Tully reunion of sorts.
Didn't really think of the wolf-pack in this instance , had thought more about the pack helping take out the Freys more specifically but I do like it to intercept Jeyne en route to Casterly Rock. The use of the wolf-pack in the prologue would actually be a fitting introduction in terms of the pack taking action on a grander scale , with ideally more to come from them. And could be the start of the Stark comeback in a sense and a catalyst for them with Arya and beyond.
This isn’t exactly related to the winds prologue but I wanted to talk about my favorite chapter so far and thought this would be a good community to do it in. I just read the chapter where Brienne, Hyle Hunt, Podrick, and a septon are on their way from maidenpool. The way the septon speaks about the common man’s experience in war and how it breaks them moved me more than any of the other writing in the books. Obviously we see everything from the point of view of the rich and privileged, so anything from a common man’s point of view is interesting to a certain extent, but the emotion conveyed in this part was just incredible. At the end, they ask him which war he was in and he says he was a young boy. Hyle tells him “The war of the ninepenny kings?”
“So they called it, though I never saw a King or earned a penny. It was war though. That it was”
great video thank you!
Shivers up my spine! Nice! I think our man in command is loyal but conflicted -Prester IS LOYAL but has been in the habit of being loyal to the West - _" Gawan's girl?"_ he does not want to harm the child of another ( formerly loyal, mostly loyal) lord of the Westerlands.
I would love it if the prologue is from the perspective of Jon in Ghost. Which would break the rule of prologue POV chacter death in that (A the character is technically already dead and (B will take part in the main action after the prologue. And as for Jayne appearing in that prologue, well it's already been established that the direwolves have a magical awareness of their siblings whereabouts and specific activities. Bran through Summer has even had a fairly vivid vision of Rickon and Shaggy Dog on a different land mass (Skaggos). So it's perfectly probable that Jon/Ghost could have a vision of Nymeria in the Riverlands or the Westlands. And maybe now that John/Ghosts are one flesh they will be able to have visions of the Starks who have been separated from their wolves, such as Arya and Sansa. Such a prologue could well forshadow all of the Starks gaining conscious control of their skinchanging abilities.😊 🐺
Thanks for your work! We will get this book one way or another, so let's hope for the best
14:32 I do love the idea of the super pack getting involved.
"Ah theyve guessed it, which means Ill have to change it, and it will take a few extra years for me to rework some plot lines to accomplish this.."
Thank you for this video, very very good👌
I like this, that opening of Jeyne and/or Edmure being killed in an attack by wolves, which while defeating the enemy comes at the cost of a family member and/or key player, could also foreshadow Rickon Stark's death during the Battle of the Bastards. It could be his funeral in the last chapter, not necessarily the battle itself.
I don't think Edmure is going to die, if not then who's gonna rule the Riverlands at the end of the story? Plus he's shown to care about the common people more than the average lord and I don't think Martin would punished him that easily.
Its about Maester Jon Vance.
Preston Jacobs took care of writing it for us.
I always love your videos! Could you make a video explaining warging in depth?
It's cute that you still think that we'll ever get to read the Winds of Winter
Excellent video
I would love a Forley Prester POV because having a chapter from the POV of a old and expierenced knight is the perfect opportunity to get more random lore about the previous conflicts in Westeros like Robert's Rebellion.
Ooooooh, yeah! He would definitely have been a young man during the uprising of the Kingswood Brotherhood, maybe even a teenager during the war of the Ninepenny Kings!
@@Levacque exactly!
I'm going to havebto reread these.
it will be tyrek lannister revealing how he come to be Ser Robert Strong
Ok now, look. I get that Qyburn is a certified mad genius and all, but even he has limits. How could he possibly fit an entire horse inside of that suit of armour, oversized though it may be?
Smart theory. I love your channel
Amazing theory!
Rhaegar returns 😮
I'll believe that when his son rises from the grave and dragons roam Valyria again.
Somehow Rhaegar returned.
What is dead may never die
❤❤❤shout out to the best narrator who brings a channel that I could listen to forever
I liked this. I was really into it, by the time I realised it wasn't GRRM himself talking about the prologue 😅
My cousin fought cancer for 3 years waiting for this book. It never came out and he died
I fully agree with this.
I truly wish you would do Dune lore videos.
Varameer Six Skins could be a prelude to Jon taking over the superpack
There won’t be a winds of winter, George doesn’t give a shit about finishing
Chett didn't die in his POV. He wet his pants but he didn't die till a later Samwell chapter. It's silly to say epilogue or prologue POV characters die given this blatant "exception".
The "epilogue" to A Game of Thrones though might have ended with the death and resurrection of Dany. There's that mysterious shift in POV where we're told what other characters see finding Dany in the remains of the funeral pyre. A similar shift was noted in a Victarion chapter.
You forgot to mention there is a tendency for a certain type of character to be the POV of the prologue. The first one was beyond the wall, the second one a maester, the third one beyond the wall, the fourth one a maester (or close to it), and lastly, the fifth one was beyond the wall, again.
It is likely the POV is a maester
Another thing, about Jeyne's hips. Yes, GRRM said it was an author error her description, but I remember it being refered to be the one description made in AFFC, not in ASOS
The other thing about the hips is who was looking at Jeyne. Catelyn, being extremely preoccupied with motherhood and procreation (especially in ASOS, it's a major theme in her chapters), would be much more likely to pay close attention to her son's wife's body. Jaime, on the other hand, has absolutely no reason to find Jeyne's body interesting. All he sees is a thin young girl who isn't ready for any of this. Jaime see a fragile person in need of safety, so the thinness of her frame emphasizes that.
@QuinnTheGM made a video were he theorized that the POV will be the Maester who assists Jeyne Westerling when she gives birth to Robb's heir. The heir would then be kidnapped/secured by the brotherhood without banners and Lady Stoneheart.
That makes no sense - we already know she’s not pregnant.
I'm not so sure Lady Stoneheart would be concerned with Jeyne's wellbeing. At Catelyn Stark she was kind enough, but we do know that she attempted to hang Brienne without allowing her to explain, and most of her merciful side is lost. It's fully possible that Lady Soneheart will be included, but will she try to rescue Catelyn Stark's daughter in law is a bit up in the air.
Mormont's Raven (Jacqen Hgar) is Hodor because it is in Ser Pounce's mouth inside Brynden Rivers' weirwood network.
You're a great writer!
I love the theory of Nymeria but I’m going to be hella sad as the stark second saying goes
“The lone wolf dies, but the packs survives.”
Who left of the stark wolf pack again
• ghost (at the wall)
• Nymeria ((riverlands))
• Summer (( beyond the wall))
• shaggy dog (( Skagos))
Is this correct?
I believe so.
While I doubt the Brotherhood would attack 400 men, a smaller force can successfully ambush a larger one if they attain surprise (and this is the Blackfish's country). Perhaps Nymeria's wolf pack attacks the Lannister camp throwing it into chaos and the Blackfish/Brotherhood uses the opportunity to rescue Edmure and/or Jeyne. The problem with that is it requires a degree of co-ordination between Nymeria and the Blackfish/Brotherhood, neither of which seems particularly likely (unless we go with the old stand by, "Bloodraven did it").
How epic a prologue that would be , the descend of a Unnatural amount of wolf Carnage at the Center of It , A Great Magical Beast, a Horse Sized Direwolf , like the DeadKings wolf is, the Reverent Level Mauling - Death
The question is WHY Nymeria would make such an attack? If it were Arya's warging influence, then how would saving Jeyne and/or Edmure be relevant? While related to her, she doesn't know them as far as we've seen. How would she have the intelligence to even know about the transport? She wouldn't. She couldn't.
That would mean someone else is behind the superpack and Arya's just been around for the ride. Arya's chapter mentions a tree watching, so it could be a , "When in doubt..." situation.
Are we blaming Bloodraven or Bran here?
For a practical purpose, it could be due to the size of the company itself. Prey becomes scarce with winter coming, so the wolves attack as much for survival as anything influenced by magic.
@@thing_under_the_stairs I'm going with Bloodraven as I doubt Bran will have fully taken over the job by the first chapter.
@@carlrood4457 Leaving out the possibilities of all time-travelling Bran theories... for now. ;)
The worst thing is we'll never know because GRRM's position is if he doesn't finish his work then no one will.
Since it will never be finished my ending is Roose kills everyone and steals their skin! THE ROOSE IS LOOSE!!!
The publishers should definitely get Robert as a consultant to whomever they pick to finish writing the books after GRRM’s inevitable massive heart attack.
Yes, I do agree. That explanation was chilling. I was shaking in my slippers. OMG! 😯🤫
Robert Baratheon?
I think I read he has prepared for that not to happen. He taking it to the grave.
He will continue on through AI in the Metaverse.
GRRM has said he will not allow someone to finish it. But we can all just ask ChatGPT to write the next couple of books for us haha I can imagine a Reddit thread where people collate the best bits from everyone's attempt at getting the books done and we end up with something epic.
Pennytree! Again! Dunk's Mentor would be proud! 🤓😎✌🏼
Damn, Geek, you make me want to return to the books. But I'm older now and I think I'll wait until WoW actually sees print.
Marvelous! I don't even READ the books. Just a committed Show fan who loves the depth and expansive story discussion here!
You should read the books! They’re incredible!
How a dream of spring is gonna stay a dream
LOL is the only comment that makes sense here. Winds of Winter is the Star Citizen of literary fantasy fiction, only moreso.
It's one super-pac I can get behind.
My favorite candidate is Ilyn Payne, it would be such an interesting thing to hear the thoughts of a mute man; and that he would survive an attack of Lady Stoneheart only to get killed by Nymeria's pack.
We deserve the Winds of Winter, GRRM must finish the books
careful you will have his fanboys saying you dont deserve anything from him and shit when all george has to do is say he cant finish the books and people will just go on their merry way
Joke's on you. GRRM will never finish The Winds of Winter.
George: Quick - write that down!
Just thinking about this a couple of hours before this video released.
3:55 I think the prologue will feature Jeyne Stark being moved from River Run to Casterly Rock and being rescued by Lady Stoneheart (the magical element of the chapter).
Since GRRM also said there will not be any new POV characters, the chapter will be from the POV of Catelyn Stark, who will die at the end of the chapter. Either her body will be totally destroyed, or Catelyn loses the war of wills with the Stoneheart spectre, or she finds out that Jeyne gave birth to Robb’s heir and “gives up the ghost” to save her grandchild from death.
Has Edmure been a POV before?
He, GRRM, has no intention of finishing the last two books! He has no financial incentive now.
I hope that Jeyne art isn't AI art. I respect David Lightbringer a lot for commiting to never using AI art in his videos.
Probably is
I'm thinking it might be the maester that belongs to someone heading west with edmure Tully. I think the brotherhood without banners will attack the convoy, really good video as always 🔥
Hadn't occurred to me before, but a Jeyne prologue where she's captured by and meets lady stoneheart, revealing the fates of pod and hyle hunt, would be fantastic whether she lives or dies.
I hope the Blackfish is the prologue. I loved Kevan being an epilogue character since he is a character that we have seen quite a lot of before his epilogue and I still remember how i felt way back when i saw him as the POV to the epilogue.
George does not care about us or the books anymore it doesn’t take this long to write a book
Its honestly just a race against his health, i some times think things like him wanting 2 be mre like Tolken put Winds in his will... sick of getting hopes up and impossible puting it in the back of ur mind coz spot on vids like this pop up every week. Pffffttt 🤞
What do you mean? Tolkien finished his work, the Lord of the Rings.
@@00Kuja00 That was one book. He left many things unfinished, hence the existence of things like Unfinished Tales and the Silmarillion.
@@burntorangehorn I know. Some were not even meant to be published. My point is Tolkien finished his story, the rest is more his life's work that he started long before LotR even came into his mind.
The Arya quote also hints at a tree watching the wolves. It's possible even that Bran uses some tree magic to aid the wolf pack in their attack on the Lanister force heading to Casterly Rock. I just don't recall exactly what sort of magic he might use or what sort of things he could know about that Lanister force.
The winds of winter is nothing but a whisp of clouds … kinda like how Saruman passed in LOTR
I actually had the thought that Stoneheart (or someone under her direct command) might be the one to kill Jeyne. It would certainly make for a tragic twist, and Stoneheart (in her twisted way of viewing the world) might want to kill Jeyne as revenge for her perceived role in Robb’s death.
It will just be a troll face released after his death. He's not working on it and he doesn't intend to either.
Its Maester Jon. Its already been confirmed by the only version of TWOW we'll ever see.
"Tully's deposed as lords of the reach" 4:45. Huh 😂??
He obviously misspoke; we all know he meant the Riverlands
A super pack of dogs crushing a small army just like the others and their undead at the end of book. I had not considered that. That would be pretty cool.
Just a thought: the prologue POV character might not die because she is already dead.