The Failure of Game of Thrones Season 8... 5 Years Later
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- In this video essay, titled "Game of Thrones: Season 8... 5 Years Later," I take a deep dive into the final season of Game of Thrones and explore why it is widely regarded as a failure. Five years after its conclusion, it's time to revisit the epic fantasy series and analyze what went wrong.
Join me as I break down the character arcs of some of the most beloved (and controversial) characters in Westeros. We'll examine the journeys of Sansa Stark, Cersei Lannister, Arya Stark, Jon Snow, Tyrion Lannister, Jaime Lannister, and Daenerys Targaryen, and discuss how their stories unfolded in Season 8. From the Night King's defeat to the Battle of King's Landing, I leave no stone unturned in this comprehensive review.
What happened to Sansa's rise to power? How did Cersei's end come about? Did Arya's journey fulfill her destiny? Was Jon Snow's fate satisfying? How did Tyrion's decisions impact the realm? Did Jaime's redemption arc stay true to his character? And what led to Daenerys's controversial turn? These are some of the questions I'll explore in this detailed analysis.
If you're a fan of Game of Thrones or simply curious about its polarizing final season, this video is for you. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more in-depth discussions on your favorite shows and movies.
#GameOfThrones #Season8 #GameOfThronesSeason8 #GoT #Westeros #IronThrone #HouseStark #HouseLannister #HouseTargaryen #JonSnow #DaenerysTargaryen #TyrionLannister #JaimeLannister #SansaStark #AryaStark #CerseiLannister #HBO #FantasySeries #ASongOfIceAndFire #GeorgeRRMartin #CharacterArcs #TVAnalysis #EpicFantasy #BattleOfKingsLanding #NightKing #TheLongNight #Winterfell
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Chapters:
0:00 - 5 Years Later
1:10 - Sansa Stark
9:30 - Cersei Lannister
17:05 - Arya Stark
25:34 - Jon Snow
33:18 - Tyrion Lannister
40:04 - Jaime Lannister
48:13 - Daenerys Targaryen
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The fact that the kid who won the game of thrones isn't one of the characters you talk about says a lot about the show 😂
yeah it isn't great lol
@@thegoldman25 bran shouldn't have been named king. It should've went to Jon cause of his Targaryen heritage.
@@kdusel1991 well I’m sure GRRM will make Bran’s Ending make senses
@@kdusel1991 Within the books, I fully believe it will be Bran who rules Westeros (most likely from the Isle of Faces if KL is destroyed). It would be very GRRM, the only one capable of ruling would be the one who has no humanity.
I literally laughed out loud when they panned over to Bran. And then “Bran the Broken” I was absolutely floored with how ridiculous it all was. And then Sansa being given the North with absolutely no pushback from anyone 😂 I hoped we’d find out bran was just the one eyed raven who’d been scheming since before he even became one eyed crow / raven whatever. Saw some good in deep geek videos about that possibility.
The best of Daenerys in the last two seasons was her outfits.
I did like that last shot of drogon extending his wings as she came down the destroyed red keep. That was pretty cool. Other than that the finale was dog shit
she did have killer outfits ngl
The production crew deserves all the praise in the world for the set design and costumes. Them and the actors are the only reason the show remained somewhat believable when the nonsensical writing took over.
@@senjuguy Whoever handled the lighting on the Night King episodes had a vendetta on the other production staff though.
Couldn't see shit.
Thank god for Michele Clapton
Arya killing the Night King is the moment I knew this show was beyond saving. I don’t think I’ve ever felt so empty watching a show as in that moment. Everything that followed after was just whatever to me
That's honestly it. I was genuinely willing to forgive soooo many of their mistakes as long as they stuck the landing. And then they did... that. And I knew there could be no room for forgiveness...
They should of made a book accurate winterfell. Book winterfell is massive has two massive walls with a moat in between them the gods woods has a diameter of 3 acres and the castle completely surrounds it
If they made a book accurate winterfell the final battle there would of made more sense cause they would have more room for men and the night king would of had to go through the castle to get to the gods woods where bran was at.
It was the dragon getting sniped for me.
The wight hunt in S7 was as bad as anything in S8, and so was the Winterfell plot with Littlefinger-Sansa- Arya. People feel more bitter about S8 because it was more definitive and that's understandable, but it didn't suddenly get so much worse right then.
The show pretty much ended after she killed the NK. I thought "am I seriously supposed to believe Cersei is the final boss now, after almost a Fing zombie apocalypse".
I forced myself to watch the rest of the show because of all of the time I already have put into it.
Theres something almost poetic about season 8, the show runners fast tracked everything so they could go off and make a Star Wars movie despite HBO begging them not to do this. They did it anyway and everyone hated the season. Disney ended up not making their Star Wars movie partly because of the reaction season 8 got. They wanted it all and lost it all.
My biggest problem with Cersei is that it made no sense why anyone would follow her after season 5. She had no money, she had no legitimacy to the throne, everyone knew she was an idiot, King’s Landing was starving, and she was exposed by the walk of shame.
It made no sense that a 2nd riot of King’s Landing didn’t happen.
Totally agree. There’s no consequences for her actions at all during the later seasons which is what the earlier seasons were all about. Like she blows up the sept and nothing happens after. No conflict or anything. Shes just crowned as queen and goes on. So frustrating
Exactly and the fact she never used the wildfire again. Like we KNOW it's there because for some reason they had little explosions of it during the Bells episode.
Well Cersei has less money not “no money” the mines ran out of gold not all its other resources, hence why she’s a Silver Queen. She also blew up the great sept…though there’s no proof (everyone would suspect though) so most other major powers would be scrambling to fill the power gap. The people hated her but the army was mostly intact so she had guards and plenty of fear to control the common folk.
Plus technically she’s the “dowager queen” still. Technically.
Exactly. All she had was the Mountain. He’s not enough to have an entire country submit to a stupid queen.
"Best season ever?" Emilia Clarke
She did us all a favor by making it seem like s8 was trash
It's hilarious how so many of the cast knew something rotten was coming. Poor them. And us viewers and fans. A travesty through and through.
It was more like “BeSt SeAsOn EvEr!” Lol she knew that shit was assssssss
😂😅😂
Its a shame that she was in so many mediocre to bad tv shows or movies despite shes the best part of each
I'm glad it didn't ruin her career because it's not really on her
jaime killing the night king? for generations after, people spoke of his nickname "kingslayer" with pride instead of revulsion.
Agreed 👍 that would have been good but I still think Jon should have directed it. The night king was his adversary, so if he’d shouted to Jamie to get him instead of shouting at a dead dragon like an idiot 🥺
@@zarabee2880 I dislike this take because the others / WWs are the adversary of everyone. People just focus on Jon because of Hardhome. In my opinion that’s another detractor to the show - they clearly set up as a 1v1. There’s not even a Night King in the books
Good old Golden Hand the Just.
I would’ve loved the night king slayer, but the NKs kings guard should’ve had 1v1 with the key players. There was enough glory to go around. Brianne, Jamie, gray worm, Arya, hound, the little bear and Theon should’ve each taken down a kings guard, with John taking down the NK with Brans help. Also, no wargs in this fight? No dire wolves?
Imagine he survives the fight with the night king, dawn begins and as he rises from the rubble, bleeding and stumbling, the sun shining behind his back, the survivors chant: "hail to the king slayer"
One of the weirdest decisions DnD made was to make it so that Jon didn’t want to rule. In the books, he wants that so bad. He was so close to accepting Stannis’ offer to legitimize him and become the Stark of Winterfell and the struggle between his personal desire to get the recognition he’s always wanted against the duty he has to the Wall and the Watch is so interesting.
Yeah. The fact he wants it is the source of a lot of the tension, and removing it ends that.
I think that's why Jon was always going to fail in the show, as well as Tyrion in a way. They never understood the complexity of their characters and the arcs they were going on.
Yeah. It’s like they were trying to hammer home the fact that he was embittered by the decisions he’s had to make and doesn’t want to lead because of it but then neglect that while he was embittered he’s always picked himself up and tried to move on to help more people. There’s hints of that in the show but it’s more openly begrudging. The show runners finalizing the decision to have Jon not be king is still inconsistent though 😂😂😂
Since show Jon still is the type to take up the task, he’d just brood more. It’d make sense that he has Sansa be an advisor for a while, then going on to Tyrion once he’s proved his loyalty. Gendry becoming a lord makes sense, so many little things aren’t necessarily wrong (besides the blood riders, unless Jon says someone sniped her) but so many BIG THINGS make no sense.
@@Ashbrash1998 I think you could say the same about most of the characters
I think it's going to go mostly the same in the books, only it'll make more sense. At the beginning of the story, Jon only wants to rule because of how he was raised. He doesn't know anything else to want. He only wants it because everyone else around him wants it, and even just expects it. Up until he joins the Night's Watch, he's only ever known lords and heirs, and so that's who he compares himself to. Stannis's offer was a struggle for him right up until the moment another option came along. Then he happily threw Stannis's offer away in favor of the alternative. In his heart, Jon really wants to be free. Not "free" the way he was north of the Wall in Storm of Swords, where he was just a different kind of prisoner. Jon wants to be free from the demands of duty and honor.
One of the lesser-discussed themes of the books is that Jon is in the process of becoming everyone's heir or everyone's second choice. I suspect that when all is said and done, much as he became Lord Commander, Jon will be king by virtue of being the one person with a claim that the others object to least. If we look at the Hour of the Wolf from the Dance of the Dragons as a model, Jon may only be king for a day, or king for an hour, before he abdicates. Given the chance, Jon will choose total freedom over power. And when he abdicates, that makes Bran - the heir to everyone else's heir - the new king.
Jamie sacrificing himself to protect Bran and kill the night king would have been great. Him going back to Cersei to do anything but kill her is also terrible.
The only good thing that came out of season 8 was the jokes and memes regarding the Starbucks cup left in one scene tbh.
Jenny of Oldstones.
“Dany kinda forgot about the Iron Fleet”
Ah, here we go, you didn't understand the ending, so you compensated your frustration with memes instead of trying to understand the story.
@@Batist13 Oh you mean a story that was basically dead that a majority of people agree it was a shit ending oh yeah i understand the ending. Eight years of time and investment gone to waste and two writers that ran out of material to adapt cause they caught up where the author left off. As they wanted to go and do other projects like Starwars which went nowhere.
@@silentecho92able Ah the famous theory of hater lore which starts from the postulate that the ending is botched, and therefore that the creators needed a reason to sabotage their life's work. Even GRRM said the ending was fine, sorry, be careful with HotD, Ryan is a fan of season 8, rightly so.
There's no way it has been 5 years already!
It has been!
Yup. I remember so clearly. I was pregnant with my daughter at the time and couldn't drink myself to sleep after I watched the final episode.
@@jessjess23brooks89 Damn😂kinda glad i didnt follow the series back then, cant imagine the dissapointment.
Yup, since endgame too
Covid really threw off the timeline
Jaime saying that he does not care about the innocent people sounds like something you would come up with if someone tasks you with writing the most out of character line possible for this character. The equivalent would be something like Dany saying that she plans to enslave everyone (which she honestly came pretty close to), Jon wanting to make an alliance with the Night King in order to bring eternal night to Westeros or Arya saying that she wants to marry Joffrey, be his queen and have many children together.
People say this as if Jaime didn't kill multiple innocents for Cersei.
@@YouScareMe1Jaime was a bad person thanks to his toxic relationship with cersei and his family but his POV in the books really illuminates how serious Jaime's psychology is, and how his unseriousness is a defensive front. Jaime took being a kings guard and an "honorable" knight very seriously as a kid. Once his dreams were flipped upside down by everyone seeing his literal saving of the entire realm as dishonorable murder, it logically soured his character. Aerys was going to destroy kings landing and Jaime killed him because of it. He cares deeply about the innocent more than he allowed himself to realize for a major part of his life
I never thought about Jamie killing the Night King, but it's actually a great payoff
Same. It didn't occur to me either but it would've been a great full circle moment, certainly better then what we got.
@@roguechevelle anything would beat what we got!!! Still so disappointed after 5 years hahaha
jamie should of killed cersi. That is what is prophesied in the book.
Jaime kills the NK in this alt ending posted 2 yrs ago: czcams.com/video/KEHnDXfSxn0/video.htmlsi=o9aRG96zxT09Wjl5
Jamie should have kill Cersei, that was the logic ending of their arc: a cursed love. Killing the NK then why not to finish a redemtpion arc, but that would make him the big hero of the story which is a little bit weird considering is a selfless child killer.
It still hurts after all these years. What a different world wouldve been if it had been a good ending.
But as George writes,
"But it did no good to brood on lost battles and roads not taken. That was a vice of old done men."
- A Dance with Dragons, Epilogue
It does hurt! Every time I get an inkling of may be rewatching, all those memories flood in and i Just cant!
I love that all the clips from season 8 are so dark that even on a phone with the brightness cranked all the way up, they’re almost impossible to see. Such a reflection of the season overall
It makes no sense for Littlefinger to give Sansa away to the Boltons. He wants their eventual defeat, so why give the object of his obsession away permanently?
Jaime’s arc finale is truly tragic writing. He had so much more potential and it all felt undone.
They had that arc in the bag and completely fumbled 😂 It was like they purposely tried to ruin him along with the entire show itself 🤣
This, among many other things, was an egregious mistake. The Cersei prophecy should have been followed and we should have seen Jamie sacrifice himself again for the good of the realm instead we got the shit we got. Dumb dumb dumb D and D.
A satisfying ending to Jamie's arc would have been if he killed Cersei..
@@peepinRAnd the fact they broke their rule of no flashbacks (Bran was an exception) to show that scene and then it never mean anything at all.
"nothing else matter."
Jaime is perfect.
GoT's ending is a masterpiece.
Jaime shows up in the gods woods and confronts the Night King, "do you know what they call me?" Bam! Protects Bran and slays the Night King with Widows Wail the sword forged from the Starks ancestral blade then returns it to the Starks. People would sing songs of him forever.
Yeah, but then how would a woman be shown as more powerful than a man?
@@darkglass1 Dragons and incest.
Disney fanservice dumb idea.
Jaime uses his golden hand to grab the night king's spear when he attacks and gold being a good conductor of heat takes longer to freeze over and shatter giving Jamie time to attack.
Dude it is necassary for the night king to be killed by the dagger. only an assassin is able to kill him and that would be a faceless one as the night king can see everything
I gotta say, I LOVE the idea of Jaime being the one to kill the Night King in your mini-rewrite. Makes the "Kingslayer" nickname one hell of a foreshadowing and turns it into a true badge of honor.
"One hand is all that is needed." Syrio Forel, first conversation with Arya.
My theory always was thar after Cerse's 3 kids die, she and Jamie have another, a daughter. She dies during childbirth, bring truth to the prophecy that a younger, more beautiful queen will strike her down.
She never had anything to fear, all of the pain she suffered and people she killed was for nothing.
That would have been very interesting
Jaime is the most egregious to me, because like you explained in the video, his arc was basically complete. Him killing the Night King would’ve been great, but not necessary. But for him to completely 180 from having broken his Kingsguard oath in order to save millions of lives to then say “I never cared about the innocents” is a straight-up butchering of his character.
He could have still gone back to Cersei. But the framing didn’t need to be “she’s hateful and so am I” - he could have simply told Brienne “she’s my sister. I love her,” and possibly even a call back to a quote he said early on in the series, “we don’t choose whom we love.” This makes Brienne’s weeping afterward more in character because it’s not that he’s leaving Brienne, but she’s heartbroken because she realizes Jaime can’t love her and never will.
Honestly I think Jaime would be #1 most done dirty on my list.
Hearing you say that Jaime should have killed the Night King gave me chills!! That would have been amazing!!
It gives me chills too! Thanks for watching!
@@thegoldman25I was disagreeing with you saying it doesn't make sense to have Arya kill the Night King, (I mean, I'm not married to the idea of her doing it and was open to almost anyone else) I just wanted the books to flesh that whole thing out more. But when you said it should be Jamie Lannister, bravo sir, bravo! That is just absolute poetry. Yes, it absolutely should be Jamie Lannister, the Night King Slayer. That idea completely removed my interference about Arya being the slayer and put me 100% all in on your take.
A S8 alt ending exists where Jaime kills the NK: czcams.com/video/KEHnDXfSxn0/video.htmlsi=o9aRG96zxT09Wjl5
Absolutly not. If you want Disney ending without meaning, juste watch Disney.
@@thegoldman25 Sweet Disney summer child. You didnt understand Jaime or GoT.
What you've forgot to mention about Cersei is
A) the Maggie the Frog prophecy also mentioned that she's to be killed through the hand of her "valonqar" - which she translates with "small brother" but is simply "younger brother". She believes that Tyrion, the physically "small" brother, who has also "killed" their mother, is going to kill her. That's why she hates him so much. But Jaime is also her younger brother, she was born before him, and it was a fan favourite theory that it means that Jaime is the one to kill Cersei. Unfortunately, in the show they butchered this plotline completely.
B) in the show, she is portrayed to be saddened by the death of her baby with Robert, however in the books she admits to Ned that she willingly killed the baby she had with Robert because she simply didn't want to have a child with him. I think that is a very important point to mention. Because it shows her character.
Exactly. I was pretty sure she killed her baby with Robert.
I don't remember where I saw it now, but I think my favourite theory/discussion as to why Arya's story felt so off was because they essentially gave her Lady Stoneheart's story instead. The theory went that Arya's storyline will culminate in seeing what the desire for revenge has done to her mother and choose to end her suffering. That she will give her mother the Gift of death, to put her own desire for revenge to bed. Lady Stoneheart slaughtering all the Freys is almost a certainty in the books, rather than it being Arya, so they just smushed the two storylines together and it ruined Arya as a result.
Also, I have ALWAYS loved the Jaime-kills-the-Night-King theory. It is my favourite. And you saying that part about how it being one of Jon's risky plays that brought Jaime to Winterfell in the first place? Never thought of that before but that's just... chefs kiss. Jaime killing the Night King whilst protecting Bran would've been poetic cinema. Instead they massacred him.
Plot twist : the show's last great season was the fourth
I enjoyed season 5 and 6. But yeah season 4 was my favorite
i'm still a 5 and 6 supporter
@@thegoldman25 sure they were better than the last two but you could already tell things were going off road. + The spirit of the series was changing for something more ''big mindless epic battle yeahhhh'''
Yep
You're right
Sansa should've tried to manipulate Ramsay, Cersei told her in season 2 a way to manipulate a man is by using what's between your legs and she didn't even do that, D&D just had her get abused. Sansa didn't even figure out that Little Finger was manipulating her against Arya, she had to go ask Bran and Bran showed her the truth, but she was even ready to kill Arya, D&D said it happened in a deleted scene.
A lot of people dont know or acknowledge that. They ("they" being the dumber portion of the fan base) love that arc and think the ending of it was "badass" instead of predictable and bad. He should have included Littlefinger in his list because D&D most definitely did him dirty too.
Just a 4th option for Daenarys going mad I've been pondering.
Playing into Drogon being the most difficult to control, in such a populated city, she loses control. Her choice is not burning the city to the ground, it is LETTING it be burned to the ground, doing nothing to stop it and accepting it as the only way.
🔥
when tyrion fed the dragons i was convinced , the show was gonna make him
a secret targaryion
I think Tyrion is the 3rd dragon rider..explains his bond with Jon from the start and Dani and the true reason Tywin hated him..not for being a dwarf, but for not being his actual biological son, but his best friend's son who was obsessed with his wife..
@@kimbervoss3753 i think so too
He might actually be a Targaryen but that’s not even relevant to all the ways the writers destroyed his arc
@@mattfoulgerBC they destroyed everyone's ark , by season 5 . When Barriston died , especially when brianne killed stannis i remember telling myself if stannis dies to Brianne hand im done with the show than season 6 actually was decent and i had some hope in it again . Fun fact i ate mushrooms during season 8 episode 3 and it wasn't dark at all and it was actually ok because of the shrooms for like a few months . i had projectile skeletons flying out my windows all over the corner when i pulled up haha so it actually made it better
Sansa ending up as a Queen in the North makes 0 sense if Bran, her brother, becomes King of the other 6 Kingdoms. One Stark rules independently, another rules the others? I cannot see that being popular for too long. And if Bran uses his powers to foil any rebellious plots, then we get weird commentary on a police state - big brother Bran is watching!
Also, Cersei was never betrothed to Rhaegar. Tywin promised her she would be but Aerys always denied him.
Bran wouldn’t have been king for the rest of his life. IIRC he sets in place a democracy after. Having Sansa secede with the rest of the North as their queen prevents any southerners from lording over them in the future.
That's what I'm saying - D&D wanted a "everybody wins" ending but an independent North with a Stark king of the South doesn't work - ESPECIALLY with how it was set up.
It's like if in our world the US senate elects the Senator of Ohio to be president. Then after all is said an done the governor of Ohio has the state become an independent country. I know my example is crude and historically there are a few decent examples, but as a fantasy it's sloppy.
Literally every Kingdom would demand independence the moment she did, Also wtf isn't there A Stark at Winterfell In the finally?, oh right they kinda forgot.
It's like when you find out coca cola owns all the god damn sodas
Bran has not a lot of power in the South as most weir trees were destroyed down there or never existed (Dorne). He is basically just a kid with no knowledge of politics or running a kingdom because his education and social development stopped around 9 years old to become a ward.
I firmly believe that a big reason why people (mistakenly) believe the final two seasons were good is Ramin Djawadi's music. His score for the final seasons of GoT represent some of his finest work.
His music was the one aspect of this show that was consistently on point from beginning to end.
@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 agreed, we are so blessed to have him continuing with HOTD
As a really surface level show watcher, I highly doubt it. Some of you really take in the details in the writing, the music, the wardrobe, etc. But in my experience, most people just watch the show. If there is something exciting, that's good enough. Given the fact that GOT had such a serious fan base, it makes sense to me that so many hate the ending. And I bet the people who think it was good are people like me who just watch the show and if we walked away feeling like we watched something good, then we say it was good. I personally doubt anyone who thinks the later parts of the show are good is thinking "But did you hear the music bro" The people who even thought about that were probably aware enough to know how shitty the ending was
@@godwarrior3403 It makes a very big impact subconsciously. Sure they may not be actively thinking about it, but the music was the only part of GoT that was always top notch quality imo
Crazy that it's been 5 years. Felt like it took forever for the final season to come out. Now it feels like time's flying by.
I agree. I remember waiting for the next season to come out year at time.
I will always watch retrospectives of GoT. I rewatched it for the millionth time with my girlfriend for her first time and even she noticed a change in S5 onwards.
We watched HotD this week and she is relieved there's some good fresh GoT content.
Yes, the mangling of the Dorne faction was the beginning of the end. Not seeing Dorne with Doran, Arianne, Darkstar and the real Sand snakes scheming their own way would've been delightful to watch. And to see them join the rest of Westeros in the fight for Kings Landing and then outright survival would've been more delightful. D and D failed at a hall of fame level that they deserve their own wing.
S5 was the beginning of the end. They abandoned the source material. Lady Stoneheart being written out was the first sign.
S5 was okayish but S6 and S7 felt not at all at that level. S7 howrver added some slinghtly interesting things back. S8 was just a bad end in a lot of ways. A lot of characters out of role. However this is complaining on high level
HotD = GoT = GoT Season 8
Amateurs.
Tyrion becoming hateful and poisoning Daenerys would make so much sense for both their characters. That would have made GOT peak. Becoming the bad guy didn't harm Walter White's popularity. And it would make sense for Tyrion to play the long game, which would make Varys turn against them. And seeing the destruction would make Jon choose the easier life at the Wall. Then, this would all make sense.
I think the final season as a whole is the prime example of something (outside of problematic writing, etc) falling under the weight of it's own complexities and ideas. Also probably why Martin is having issues with the final two books, because he's going to have squeeze everything left into those, but also make it clear what the story is truly about and saying.
Also, the final season needed to spread out into a redone season 8, 9, and 10.
I think that as well. I don't think D&D ever really understood it. In beginning they tried and were good at it, but eventually they just cherrypicked certain parts and ignored the rest and in the end it didn't make sense anymore.
@@Ashbrash1998 do you think that's also why Martin is having difficulties wrapping the books? Not just narrative wise, but also thematically? Honestly, I don't know how he'll squeeze what's left into just two books. There has to be an 8th book if he wants do it properly.
Both GRRM and HBO wanted 10-13 seasons (George said it would need at Least 10) but Dumb n Dumber wanted out and refused to hand the show over so they rushed the ending. 4 seasons crammed into 13 episodes.
I think you are right with regards to sticking the landing in the books themselves (which are much more sprawling with more characters and storylines), but I think the show is an example of creator/showrunner hubris. The acclaim D&D got for Game of Thrones earned them a Star Wars trilogy deal and I think them looking to exit the series quickly to work on SW rather than hand the reins to others really had a butterfly effect. The most damning evidence is them turning down a higher episode count for the final seasons. HBO willing to continue to pay for an incredibly expensive show and they said no thank you? One of many bad decisions.
@@Modulater83
I totally agree. D&D let it all go to their heads and didn’t appreciate what they had created and how rare the opportunity was to continue this amazing show to the proper finish line. That show was and will be the biggest cultural phenomenon of their lives, not just the writers but also the main cast as well. They had the popularity, they had the funding, they could have created the best TV show of all time. Instead they squandered a rare opportunity, ruined the show and ruined their reputations along with it. So much for there Star Wars trilogy or any other future projects with HBO.
One notable reason why Arya's character fails is the exclusion of Lady Stoneheart, its clear that her and LSH will cross paths in the books (if they come out). Lady Stoneheart is the epitome of GRRM's Anti War and Anti Vengeance. GRRM writes vengeance in a raw and realistic manner, take Blood and Cheese from FaB for example. Lady Stoneheart's vengeance on the Freys in the books is going to be one of the most horrifically and unjust moments in the books and something that'll make BnC look like child's play in comparison. However because the show cut her out, they amalgamated the Frey vengeance plot point with her without the thematical point of anti-war/anti-vengeance in the books and when it came to S8, uh Oh Arya has nothing to do so they made her kill TNK to just give her something because they cut the Stoneheart plot out
I completely agree about Arya and Lady Stoneheart. Also, Arya's arc in the books points to unfinished business with her mother--book Arya was always relatively insecure about her relationship with Cat and then as her story goes on she feels like her mother wouldn't want her anymore if she knows what she's done, and it's Nymeria who pulls Catelyn's body out of the river for the Brotherhood to find. I really think their stories will converge in the Riverlands and Arya just slaughtering all the Freys in one huge spectacle is what's left of an absolutely critical climax in Arya's whole arc, only with everything that would have made it meaningful gutted out of it.
I hate how gutted SO MUCH from the books that were essential to character arcs. Like I can understand cutting the fat of the book but they just ripped pages out and had characters bumbling around.
Honestly I think Aryas killing of the Freys in the show was unjust too. Its played as this great moment but there’s no way everyone in that family was evil and in the books were even shown that the Rosby Freys all had to be sent away from the wedding because they couldn’t be trusted to betray Robb.
@@scoliosis9478 It was unjust, but the show didn't portray it as such or delve into the unjust nature aspect as the books did/will
Please explain for us laymen what all these acronyms mean?
There’s a great line in ASOS where Jaime says “that white cloak soiled me”. This line encompasses Jaime’s story.
Here’s a little peak behind the curtain: the night of the Game of Thrones finale, I was actually watching ‘The Phantom Menace’ for its 20th anniversary and I thought everyone was having a great time watching the GOT finale while I was miserable watching TPM.
Turns out we were ALL miserable that night. (I don’t know what’s more unbelievable: ‘The Phantom Menace’ isn’t the most disappointing thing released on May 19th or that there were TWO giant franchise disappointments on the same day 20 years separated from one another!)
That's crazy! And phantom menace isn't great, but imho attack of the clones is the worst prequel film. I just dislike it so much
Endgame came out the same weekend as the long night, I'll never forget that weekend
@@thegoldman25 Endgame was also a far better finale! I saw it in the theatre with friends of mine that week. Infinity war is my favorite avengers film but Endgame is right up there after that. Super curious what avengers 5 and 6 are gonna do but I doubt they'll be as good.
Ok so may 19 is cursed 😂😂😂
Idk our ages but I just went to TPM’s 25 year rerelease and had a great time. The dialogue is horrendous but otherwise it’s great fun. And 4-6’s dialogue was also terrible, and delivery also pretty awful of it sometimes… Liam Neeson and Harrison Ford complained equally that “people just don’t talk this way,” “people just don’t do these things”… I was
The "best" thing Danyerys did in the last season was double the sales of Starbucks overnight
Haters did that, not her.
I love the fact that is has been half a decade later but the hate is still continue to the point that we still have more video paragraphs like this. Very well-deserved. Thank youuu
these types of videos are the only way i can cope with the ending 🙏🙏 thank you for your service
32:50 Let me quote Dumbledore here: "It is a curious thing, Harry, but perhaps those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it. Those who, like you, have leadership thrust upon them, and take up the mantle because they must, and find to their own surprise that they wear it well."
I like your suggestion here a lot.
The suggestion for Jaimie is absolutely perfect. He should have killed the Night King and died while doing it. Would have made him an honorable hero, with an honorable end. This would have also benefited Cerise's arch because now she had truly lost everything and wanted to see everything burn.
Great video, agree with all points. Tho I want to add one thing in dany section, her inner conflict is very similar to jon's one that of wants vs duty. using fire is a way to get it.
In book1: all she wants is to go "home" , have a family, live a peaceful & comfortable life as a simple girl & not a item to be sold, then she connects the idea of "home" with westroes(saw a thousand red doors). Play's her Duty as khaleesi
book2 : dodging all wrong doors/illusions/temptations to meet undyings one & asking what's the truth.
in book 3: she calls slaves as her children not only cuz she believes she is infertile but she has a whole to be filled with love,care,affection & be connected with others at intimate level which she didn't had. Also she for similar reason tries to Self-love. she could have gone straight to westroes yet instead of flying off ,chooses to rule for her "Duty".
Book 5 : puts aside her desire again for duty.
i also don't think she would burn KL willingly, rather either for coming to terms with her father's legacy, or play with perception against young griff. Making anyone in story "mad" is lazy & in direct conflict with what martin says how he doesn't like Dark lord villians who do evil just cuz or he likes to write abt human heart in-conflict plus missing the whole point of "OTHERS" , be it cersei/dany/bran.
Cersei however would do some mad queen stuff in the book when she burns the tower of the hand with wildfire she is excited and even Jamie saw that Aerys look in her eyes and was freaked out. I hate how they ended Jamie’s story like that when it’s obvious he’s not going back for her in the books.
@@ACinemafanatic yes true but she would have reason to burn KL like Maggie's prophecy or her want for power (iron throne) or want to prove ppl wrong who pited her gender & didn't gave her any chance. Rather than reasoning as just cuz... Or them bell triggered genes moment.
I'm calling no reason or a just cuz reason here lazy, Which is often used for these characters.
what kills me the most is that, throughout the shows run, i would often restart the series to watch through. before each season, i'd rewatch all seasons leading up to it. but since the show has ended, i have no excitement to go back, because i know where it ends now. season 8 retroactively made every other season a little bit worse, which is wild.
I remember watching this entire show after it came out with my girlfriend. She had already finished the show by this point, and every now and then she would mention how bad S8 was, and how I would be impressed at just how downhill it would go.
I thought to myself, it couldn't be that bad right? Everyone's just exaggerating right?
Well... Please let House of the Dragon have a good final season.
Here's to House of the Dragon!
Lol, you're not ready for HotD ending.
I’m okay with Jon not getting the Night King kill but…he should have fought him one on one with swords. The dragon fight was cool but we needed a more personal up close fight between them. If it appeared like he was gonna die again and then Arya swooped in that would have been amazing!
Agreed..a tension was built up between Jon and the Night King..they were too aware of each other, too many stare-downs and zero resolution with that..
Yeah..nah.
Jaime killing the Night King would have been the ultimate completion of his entire story. He saves Bran, he fully regains his honor, and his title of Kingslayer is now his greatest triumph instead of his greatest shame. Maybe even allowing for a new position in the King's guard where one member wears a golden hand and that member is meant to be the only one who can strike the king if he becomes corrupt or mad. But at the cost of their life
I binge watched Game of Thrones about 2 months ago. Friends have warned me that the show gets worse towards the end and that the final two seasons are completely off the books. While keeping this in mind, I tried to be as objective and unbiased in order not to sway my judgement. And... yeah, D & D can go to hell. There were many moments in seasons 7 and 8 where I ranted out loud how stupid a specific plot point or a choice was. Something that I've not done once in the previous seasons. It's like all the major characters got downgraded by 80%.
Full honesty: when I watched the first season I was almost on cloud-9 on how great it was. Exellent writing, acting etc. And I litterally said "This is gonna break the TV-show syndrom. Every show that starts of great, always gets worse as the seasons keep going. But this will be different!!"
And I've never been more wrong in my life
You and so many people where wrong... Any after five years the last season still make me feel empty and disappointing.
cersei was never betrothed to rhaegar. it was proposed but aerys said no. so it never happened.
It would have been perfect if whilst Jamie killed the night king, he was weilding the valyrian steel sword Dark sister
I love hearing people dog on the final seasons.
An hour of it sounds just what I need today. ❤
Edit: Jamie would be number one on my list. With one sentence they ruined an entire characters redemption. With ONE SENTENCE 😖
Damn never thought of Jamie being the one to off the night king. Man I’m totally here for it.
I can spend an entire day HATING the atrocius final season. I hope someone has a whole group of that or something lol
For real, to this day I don't understand why they even added it. I think the point was to do some sort of "counter" redemption where he actually didn't care about saving the innocent people, only Cersei.
It still doesn't really work, but it could have been an interesting angle if set up properly
5 years? Wow, seems like yesterday.
5 flies too fast
And yet.. and yet, these were the longest 5 years in recent history.
Recently rewatched all 8 seasons with my 17 year-old daughter. She loved it for the most part but by the end she said it "basically became a marvel movie". And I think that sums the show up quite nicely.
My God, your build-up to the possibility of Jamie killing the Night King had me mentally cheering! Also, I agree with everything you've said, and a lot of it really put into words what I've never been able to articulate myself. Great stuff.
I miss game of thrones so bad. Lets hope Hotd continues as good as s1
I’m so grateful for HotD cuz I miss GoT too
@@thegoldman25 I miss it too! Super curious about the tales of dunk and egg show that they're gonna do! I love HotD!
by the end of both shows HoTD will be considered the better of the two shows , clearly and it's because they know the ending and there not gonna diverge from the story . Season 2 of Hotd will be the best season of either show since season 4 of game of thrones and i think it'll be the consensus of the people
HoTD is not even close to early seasons GOT
Hotd is boring. Its just a decently written fantasy show. Its just not bad like season 7-8 of GoT.
Jon not killing the night king is fucking stupid of all the characters ( in this video )he is the one who fought the walkers he has lost the most trying to stop them for starters his life for him to have killed the night king would of been the ultimate validation of his story and of him
Never thought of it, but Jaimie killing the Night King would indeed be an amazing conclusion.
I think one of the reasons they didnt adapt Tyrion's arc was becasue he was a very beloved character, in the series he is a grey character but his charm, inteligence and personality helps a lot for him to be liked by the viewer and a lot of the things that makes him bad were cut off the show, like the fact that he wasnt particularly displeased by his marriage with Sansa in the books, in the show they gave him a good friendly relationship with Sansa for a little bit, before the red wedding, the show has a lighter version of Tyrion and some of thebthings he does and says after what happend with Jaime and Tywin are very awful and i think they didnt whant this beloved character to loose popularity 🤷 but that made his charachter an empty shell
And the sad part is, that fans would have been 100% with Tyrion if they did follow it through. Because if we love a character enough we will follow them a descent into villany. And Tyrion with all the crap he's been given has plenty of reasons. Like amp his misery in jail, reflecting on his life and how the only person who cares is Jamie (make him doubt Sansa cared since she left as soon as she could) and then do the Tysha reveal and his breakdown.
I wonder if part of their reasons for not doing it was because they didn't want fans to turn to flip on Jamie again.
Tyrion was always jerk, it's part of why we loved him in the first place.
I had managed to get over this heartbreak.
Thank you for reminding me...
You are so welcome!
Whatever your opinion on the ending is, I think most of us can agree that we miss Game of Thrones.
I miss the real Game of Thrones. Not what it ended up being.
But unfortunately for me, it just killed my love for the series and universe as a whole.
And still no Winds of Winter 😢
Ah Game of Thrones its like setting up a role playing game where all the right things where done in the beginning then the torch was passed to a clueless player who chose the worst decisions late game.
Knowing how bad the ending is gives me no reason to rewatch it. Its that awful
Sansa was actually my favourite character - in the books and in the show. I know, unpopular opinion. Why I liked her so much was because she appeared as the most "realistic" character to me.
She was a little girl on the brim to puberty, who was taught from her early age what was expected of her and what she had to expect. And she acted and reacted accordingly. She made many "mistakes" along the way, but all were understandable.
Cersei and Co manipulated her into betraying her father and to reveal his plan to flee Kingslanding, because Sansa was taught how to behave. She thought herself in love with Joffrey, so if course she didn't want to leave him. She was in that awkward position of loyalty between two sides of a "war" and thought of herself that her loyalty had to lie with the king/her future husband. Considering how she was brought up, it was absolutely reasonable for her to think that.
Sansa was taught to follow the men in her life, to be sweet and kind and to do what was she was told. While she wasn't married yet, she, as I said, thought herself in love with the king, and most little girls like this dream idea of becoming princess/queen some day (Arya didn't and when I was a little girl, I did not, too, but it's a known typical gender chliche which also exist in real).
It was naive of her to confide in Cersei, but it's realistic that she did. Still, she put herself in a bad position when she begged for mercy on her fathers behalf.
Witnessing his beheading was the trauma that forced her to "age" more quickly. She had to lose her childish nativity and leave her dreams behind, in which all princes and kings were noble and good. And she realised that it was time for her to learn. To watch and learn.
While being abused by Joffrey and some of his Kingguards, by Cersei, her only "friend", even though she didn't know at the time, was the Hound, who always had a soft spot for her (in the books it is heavily implied that there are "romantic" (? - for the lack of a better word) feelings involved (especially from his side); later she even remembers a kiss between them which never actually happened and she seems to... Hmm... How to put it... Remember the kiss rather fondly ("He took a song and a kiss, and left me nothing but a bloody cloak"). Of course while being at Kingslanding, she felt alone and afraid; her sister also had gone missing, her brother was accused a traitor, then killed, along with her mother, her younger brothers were also claimed to be killed...
While she was always in a "comfortable housing situation" unlike Arya, I do believe that Sansa was often more at risk than Arya, who had the benefit of being undercover as a boy.
What I like about Sansas perspective is that you are often in front row seats with the "villains". You obtain interesting knowledge through her and learn what the enemies are up to.
I am not unsatisfied with how Sansas story ended in the show (I actually think she got the best ending), the way to this end is starkly (pun intended) different to what the book seems to lead on. In the book, it's not Sansa who got married off to Ramsay Bolton, but her childhood friend Jayne Poole, disguised as Arya Stark (even though it is implied that the Boltons know that Jayne isn't Arya and it is also heavily implied that Jayne is forced to engage in s0d0my with Ramsays dogs... Think of it what you will, I am happy they left this entire plotline out in the show).
I'm wondering how it will unfold now in the book, since Sansa is not connected to the Boltons. For now she's still at the Eyrie, suspected to be married off to a guy there (forgot his name), so I can't imagine her story progressing the same way it did in the show. I hope she becomes Queen in the North in the book, too, I'm also interested in a reunion with her and the Hound (even though I don't know if I want a romance between them... Sandor Clegane is much younger in the book though, and age difference was never a problem for GRRM... Weird guy...), I found their reunion in the show a bit flat, but there it was never really hinted that the soft spot the Hound had for Sandor was "romantically" inclined.
So, yeah, these are my two cents why I like Sansa and why I'm not unhappy with how her story ended - at least in the show (I also don't think her progression was "unearned", as you mentioned, but I understand your point of view).
I just want to say, this made me frustrated all over again, then you really reminded my of why l loved the books so much and I agree 10000% with every analysis you make. I think the way you resolve the story archs feels so narratively true to the characters and to GRRM. You have got yourself a new subscriber!
Thank you for the sub!
I will never get tired of these videos
Thank you for watching!
The writing was on the wall from season 5, but a lot of fans just refused to see it. I am glad you highlighted the difference from the early and latter seasons, too many people tend to focus on season 8 alone, as if that was the only problematic season. Thank you again!
I miss GoT and I will never forgive D&D for ruining it. At Least somehow we know how HOTD ends.
I would add that - aside from a lack of episodes that would have been able to set up some of the more controversial arc endings - the writers lost the truly clever and brilliant aspects of Balish and Tyrion. Their lack of subterfuge and ability to manipulate people was lost especially the last two seasons.
I am of the belief that cutting out Aegon VI/Young Griff led to the Mad Queen twist, GoT was built on the grey complex depiction of war and conflicts, this was changed in season 6 where it became much clear who the good and bad guys where (e.g Jon v Ramsey, North v Night King), so for the final season when it came to the last conflict between Dany and Cersei, morally, it was too one sided, Dany was, good, Cersei bad leading them to cook up the mad queen twist last minute in an attempt to go back to that 'grey' depiction of war. Unfortunately it doesn't work, had they included Aegon VI and instead of Cersei V dany, it was Aegon V Dany, the conflict would've been grey because you understand where both sides are coming from, I do feel like had they gone with that storyline instead there would be no need to transform dany into a mad queen
I have always looked at it has the Mad Queen is gonna happen in the books also. but how it happens will be different and make sense. With Faegon in the books that Will Be the Catalyst for the Mad Queen. Fire and Blood Dany has left a line of bodies even now and with Someone who could challenge her for the Throne with a better claim
In the books I don't it was going to be Dany. Mainly because we already have 3 characters who are set up before this to go crazy and nuke everything. Cersei, Old Griff and Euron are all ticking time bombs. Now I will say that Dany will have a consequence with how destructive dragons can be (similar to Aegon the conquerer) but going "mad". I doubt it, being more brutal is more likely.
@@chickenpanda1179the mad queen is happening in the books but it’s Cersei. The GoT writers just changed the ending last minute to make it ‘less obvious’ because that’s the only thing they cared about.
If you think Dany will be mad queen I think it’s because you want it to happen not because there is anything pointing to it.
@@chlc4305 Aegon or Faegon because I doubt he is the real one will be the reason she turns all mad. You mean there isn't a chance she finally get back and finds another Targaryen and that can claim the throne she won't go back a doodle and start burning everything in her path
@@chickenpanda1179 yes. There is no reason for Dany to go ‘mad’ literally this is made up by fans because they want to see her downfall.
She will become more brutal and make more ruthless decisions because that’s where every character is going. But in no way is she going to nuke everyone in her path 😂
I started the ASOIAF series in 2006. Us book “purists” saw the show going wildly off the rails during season 5, when George R R Martin stopped writing and consulting on the show and D&D took complete creative control. We were told by the massive fandom that we were stupid for our complaints and warnings that the showrunners didn’t have any idea WTF they were doing. Watching the culmination of their stupidity that was season 8 and the disbelief reactions from the fandom was one of the most entertaining things I ever witnessed. The fandom quite literally imploded.
The entire “let’s recruit the lister to help us fight the white walkers” story arc was concocted solely to meet a predetermined need: “give the night king a dragon at the end of season 7, that he uses to take down the wall.”
They worked backwards from there.
Another main team for Arya is her identity, she spends all of the series pretending to be someone else each time loosing more and more of her identity as a Stark and as the girl her family knew, in the books Arya has a lot of thoughts about this, in the first seasons of the series it is not as prevalent but the teams are there but in the final seasons they put more atention on making her a "badass" and her charachter wasnt good anymore without mentioninig all the things that makes her habilities so ridiculous if you whatch her progress in the series
The three surviving Stark children all have huge identity loss themes in the books, Arya being No One, Sansa being Alayne Stone and struggling to assert herself internally as a Stark, and Bran and his whole thing of course. I used to just assume that the books would have all three come through their danger periods to reunite (A time for wolves!) with their Starkness intact, but then the show only really did it even in their weird half-assed way with Arya at all, with Sansa they almost completely cut the identity arc (she's barely "Alayne" for even a couple episodes in passing, never becomes a "bastard" at all, and weirdly only dyes her famous hair dark for the brief time she dyes it after she reveals her real identity), and Bran actually does get totally lost to the creepy Three-Eyed Raven/Crow/Greenseer/Whatever-it-is thing to the point that it feels like the actual person Bran was really just died a long time ago.
@lolrirs7754 The Bran part was ridiculous, because we for all intents and purposes it didn't make sense. Like the three eyed raven in the show was just some old dude in a tree hanging out in a cave with a dying race. Granted in the books we have hints but at least there was a creepy vibe and tension around what he was learning and what the cost may be.
@@lolrirs7754 yes you are right, is something that all of them struggle with in very different ways, but I think that because of Arya's other team and story events it is a little bit more prevalent, in the books and in the show.
@@Ashbrash1998 they didn't know how or didn't want to adapt the more magical aspects of the books, I think they didn't want the fans that didn't watch it for the fantasy aspect to not watch the show so Bran is just not a character anymore, they didn't adapt most of the magical parts for Dany and for Arya and that affected them a lot too
David Benioff and d.b. weiss Are we so out of touch? ... No it's the fans who are wrong 😂
I can literally see the meme
I agree with the corrosive themes of vengeance, but to say people who are “just following orders” are implied as innocent… well we had a pretty big trial about that in Nuremberg. They’re guilty by both our’s and Westeros standards
My fave is how you completed Jamie’s arc. I would’ve liked Tyrion to not go dark, but the other concepts and the order of how badly they messed up these characters were spot on. So glad I found this video. Thanks!
Did it objectively fail? Yes. Did I hate it? Nope. Just wish they didn't rush it. It could have been amazing.
Final season was the worst thing that happened in tv history
It was rough for sure
@@thegoldman25 it was so awful!!
I still hold that the root problem with Season 8 was that it was too short. Arcs were simply crammed into super tight runtimes, making everything feel contrived and nonsensical.
New subscriber! Brilliant analysis! I couldn’t be in more lock step. You made so many valid points that made so much sense and got me looking at things from a new perspective. Arya realizing that the path of vengeance is folly and Jon having some real moral ambiguity about taking the the throne would have been 1000x times better and Jaime killing the Night King 🤯! I never thought of that idea and it’s absolutely chef’s kiss! Well done my friend! 🍻
Ooo excited for this one!
Enjoy!
GOT and all media took a massive nosedive after 2015.
I wonder why…
Two things about GoT that get me:
1) Rarely do you see a series especially one built in a fantasy world appeal to such a broad amount of viewers and become a cultural phenomenon which makes the fall to what it became even more impressive for all the wrong reasons. It tapered off as the seasons meandered on but by the time it came to an end *everything* came to an end.
2) It's so bad that it retroactively ruined the series where there's little desire to rewatch it knowing that it ends the way it does and it's a real shame because peak GoT is exceptionally great.
That being said, as much as I hate what it became I am still grateful for it because it's a world worth exploring through spin-offs like House of the Dragon which has been a wonderful treat.
Considering Jon and the "duty over desire" - it could have also worked the other way around, while still remaining his "character": he doesn't want to become king, as he keeps mentioning, yet his duty is to accept the regalty. In literature tropes, the unwilling ruler is also often portrayed to be the best ruler, so Jon could have become a good and wise king, against his desire to lead a free life, but because his duty forced him to. Also, even though he's a Targaryen, I would have liked it better for his Stark side to be the stronger influence, hence making him a good king.
when dan and dave ran out of book they gave tyrion
mushrooms book story 😂😂😂
Nah theu didn't run out, they literally stopped and decided "nah this is better".
I must be the only person in the world that was not bothered by Jaime saying he never cared about innocent people. To me, it was always clear that he didn't mean it and it was simply him lying to himself to try to justify his decision to go back to Cersei. He knows that what he is doing is selfish and a bad decision, that while honor is usually what guide his decisions, here he is simply choosing his own desire. And instead of admitting that, he just says he "never cared about innocent people" out loud, lying to his brother but also saying it out loud to try to convince himself of that. Jaime always cared about honor and innocent people, and his past actions prove that. He did his part in going to Winterfell to fight for the fate of the realm, and in the end he just wanted to follow his own desire for once and go back to the person he cared the most in the world.
yeah i think saying it was completely in character for him. What they should have done was to make him perform some action that proved the opposite point, like worrying about the bells being rung or whatever
Yeah sometimes characters lie...Hell the whole Lannister sibling story is being in denial.
I think this could have worked if Tyrion had pushed back on his statement but he didn't. And Jamie didn't have any hesitancy or moment of convincing himself to go back.
@@Ashbrash1998 Yeah I forgot, by that point in the show every character except Dany always says things they mean.
It works as head cannon but I don’t think there was enough there to conclude that was the writers’ intention. And obviously the vast majority of people didn’t take it that way.
From a storytelling perspective the way it actually worked out felt completely empty (like everything else from season 8)
On paper you’re right and most of the shows best moments are based on people being true to themselves and their own interests exactly like Jamie was at the end but all those actions propelled the plot.
When you take a story like Jamie’s and then essentially undo it, it’s like well wtf was even the point? It’s like HIMYM. Here’s the mother! Haha. Just kidding.
There are good ways to do that (The Sopranos, Seinfeld) that make narrative sense but GoT felt like being subversive for the sake of being subversive. It’s dumb.
I have an idea for Danni's breaking point and it actually fits perfectly into the show with a small end tweak. She still has 2 dragons (delete that riduculas 360 no scope from behind a cliff) and they have taken the first part of the city and are waiting for the bells to ring for surrender (which is also stupid "i've never known the bells to mean surrender" but lets go with it). She and her 2 dragons are sitting on the wall like she is in the show and rather than surrender, a bolt from a scorpain she missed is fired and takes out her other dragon. So now we have yet again a moment of her waiting to do the right thing but gets harshly punished for it. At this point, just like in the show, Cersie has filled the inner part of the red keep with civilians for protection. Everyone knows she is doing this for that reason and thats why they earlier decided they cant just fly the dragons at the red keep and have to be careful going about it. But with her dragon getting killed rather than them surrendering its the final straw and she flys to the red keep. Not burning the entire city to the ground but she uses her dragon to destroy the red keep (or parts of it) and it comes crumbling down killing all of the mass civilians in there. That way everyone see's she has gone too far as they could have won without killing all those people but she lost it and to get to 1 person she irrationally sacrifies all those innocents.
EDIT: Or maybe, to add to it a bit. That missed scorpian was hidden at the red keep as a last bit of defence. So she actualy goes to destroy that but out of rage continues with doing more to the red keep.
i almost didn't click because i thought i'd seen all anyone had to say on the subject, but your analysis was really refreshing and insightful. it really made me think about what a good conclusion could've been for these characters.
He posted on my birthday
Happy Birthday!!!
Yesssssss another one!!!!
Let me know what you think!
I believe the writers were trying to convey a story where Daenerys was always doomed to repeat the sins of her father. Throughout the show she tries to take the honorable route and is constantly punished for it, beginning with her pardoning the shaman who kills her husband and child. The problem with this is that the writers do not show a slow descent into madness. They show her constantly rising above her failures again and again. It's a cycle that if anything shows Daenerys's determination and perseverance, selling audiences on the idea that she will break the cycle of Targaryen tyranny. We needed to spend seasons 6 and 7 watching Daenerys make decisions that seem more and more unhinged, quelling rebellions before they have a chance to rise up, killing groups that she perceives as a threat, etc. By the beginning of season 8 we should already be rooting against her (or feeling real guilty for sticking with her), and she should be the one who murders her last allies because she assumes they are plotting against her as she goes completely mad. Then she burns down the city so that no one is left to oppose her, it is only her and her army, who are once again slaves because stepping out of line will get them killed. That's the story I would have liked to see, at least.
In regards to John killing the Night King, there was a whole prophecy in the books leading to it being him.
Still the worst ending to any large show by far. Genuinely could’ve done almost any other ending and it’s would’ve been better.
what's insane about season 8 is that almost everything, the acting, costumes, vfx, production, cinematography, and directing was amazing! it was literally just the writing (and the lighting department tbh) that were disasters and screwed the entire show over, its really sad. also FINALLY!! a GoT retrospective video that doesn't blame the failure of the female character's arcs on faux "girl power" and "feminism" or whatever and isn't needlessly hateful towards women or calls them all cunts etc etc and ACTUALLY takes an in depth look at WHY their stories were handled so badly by the writers
I totally agree! Blaming shit on “girl power” or whatever is a total cop out. There’s deeper reasons for bad writing, and that’s what I like to discuss, not gender politics or whatever
I used to believe this was the greatest show. After the final season, I wouldn’t recommend anyone waste their time. It’s crazy because how can one season change my mind as to years of incredible content?? Idk honestly but I have not gone back to watch any of the show again and have no interest in anything they do in the future.
Hearing you talk about these characters - what they were supposed to be and what they became in the show - it's so painful and makes me so sad thinking about what was taken from us :(
21:45 My good man, “just following orders” is most famously associated with the post war trials of Nazis who made that exact claim- Eichmann made that exact claim.
It does not absolve crimes against humanity.
Yeah 'just following orders' has now become a meme because how many Nazis justified their actions- a lot of them successfully and got out scot free.
In the context of game of thrones it is a little different but you do have a valid point
I stop all my rewatches at the finale of Season 6 and imagine my own ending… that’s the only way I can enjoy my favorite show of all time.
I work in special effects and worked on Episode Three of Season 8. It was a brutal night shoot in a freezing quarry in northern Ireland, and even though I only filmed essentially half the episode for the six weeks I was there, I got to see the scale of this production up close.
I had a great time with the cast and crew and wasn't aware at the time of how the rest of the season would pan out (I agree that it was poor) due to filming out of sequence and periodically intense scenes which take ages to shoot.
My very first night shoot was filming Daenerys and Jura's last stand against the White Walkers. All the smoke swirling and blowing around them as they fight was my work as I stood on a large wind machine, blowing Artem smoke at them. It was freezing cold as the rotors sucked in already freezing air past me, chilling it almost to the point of pain!
I was there when the Walkers first attack the front line, throwing in hands of soil as the characters fight the walkers (all the stuff flying past camera that looks like blood and guts in that fight scene is just plain old soil!)
The best memory I have of this was sheltering in the far corner of the gigantic green screen quarry, huddled over a smoke machines as the Dothraki have their swords lit of fire. It was pitch black, about four am, with real wind and rain howling around the set, when out of the darkness the leading White Walkers in full makeup and costume slowly surrounded me as they prepared to come on for their next scene. I was half asleep when they did this and got the shock of my life when they slowly surrounded me, leaping up in fright! They all had a good laugh about that.
Good memories but a shame the end result was so frustrating.
5yrs later and it’s still in peoples heads rent free lol😂🍿