There are no bad ASOIAF books (A Dance with Dragons review)
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2024
- Well, we made it: the final (so far) book in the ASOIAF series, a Dance with Dragons by George RR Martin. Although it isn't my new love like a Feast for Crows, I still absolutely enjoyed it and thought it was a great installment. Let me know your thoughts below!
Chapters
00:00 - Rating/overall thoughts
04:09 - Theon
11:08 - Tyrion
16:51 - Jon
19:57 - Stannis/Melisandre/Davos
22:35 - Dany
26:29 - Arya
27:55 - Jaime/Brienne
28:49 - Cersei
30:17 - Kevan
31:24 - Ramsay's Letter
33:24 - Is ADWD off the "deep end"
36:04 - Revisiting my first concerns
38:33 - Series retrospective
41:42 - What's next
Mentioned Channels
@readbykyle3082
Socials
bookborn.reviews - Zábava
UPDATE: I keep getting this comment super frequently: I have already read knight of the seven kingdoms! I did it between asos and feast. The review is in my ASOIAF playlist :)
So full disclosure: I know I said I would start my reread in the fall/winter, but I'm already 80 pages into rereading AGOT ☠I kept trying to start other books and nothing was hitting so REREAD IT IS! I'll probably take a break and do preview chapters this week though too ♥
No need to reread yet, I heard TWoW is coming out tomorrow.
😂
That's how it is with ASOIAF, nothing comes close when it comes to characters and immersion. Maybe I'm biased but not even Malazan is as good as ASOIAF. It feels like home to me. "When the sun sets, no candle can replace it".
You can also read Fire and Blood which is like The Silmarillion but for ASOIAF and The World of Ice and Fire, those read like history books but they're fun and they contain interesting info for the whole thing.
What's a preview chapter? Sorry English isn't my main
Now to complete your character arc you need to listen to 10 hour livestreams explaining theories like "tyrek lannister is a horse", "euron is daario" and "roose bolton is a vampire"
don't forget varys is a mermaid
@@tomidrac9719Varys is young griff’s mother. It is known
All Walder Freys are the same time travelling Walder Frey
also the best theory: tyrion is dany's time traveling fetus
Don't forget that Bran is a time travelling fetus!
Alright George, Bookborn has finally uploaded the review of the last book.
You can stop pretending and publish The Winds of Winter already.
LMAO yes yes George was just waiting for me right?
What and lose his bet with Rothfuss over who can keep their fans hanging the longest?
@@BookbornIt is known.
Now let this age for 4 more years
On a side my copy of Dance was signed by GRRM in 2011 when I started my masters I beat GRRM got my Masters in 2021 and I took a long time to finish my Masters
Hating Theon in ACoK and having your heart broken by him in ADWD is peak George Martin experience 😢
He really says "you hate that character? BET!"
Yes. You spend aaaaaaaall this time waiting for his punishment for being a giant PoS and then you see it and you think “oh. Maybe that isn’t actually what I wanted. Can’t you just kill him already, he’s been through enough”
@@nrran6835Asha’s reaction upon seeing him is such a great impressive way to show us that. You and she both wish he’d been allowed to die.
Nah, son. Theon TURNCLOAK, Theon KINSLAYER got what he got.
Broke: Hating Theon in ACoK
Baroque: Feeling bad when Theon no longer has ACoK
My joke is that the The Winds of Winter is perpetually 2 years away: "George has been pretty quiet lately... there's NO WAY he finishes it by next year. The year AFTER though..."
There’s nothing better than a fandom in delusion 😌 I would know because I’m a deluded fan constantly
i think him being unusually this quite its because he has a surprise and i think that surprise is him finishing the winds of winter and i think he is waiting for HOTD to finish airing to match the hype so everyone could live happily ever after (im completly in delusion)
Yeah I remember finishing Winds in 2016 and thinking George would release the book in 2018 given it would’ve been the same amount of time it took him to write Dance. Boy was I off.
@@alex30425 dude nothing got me more than when he said lock me up if im not finishing it in 2020 i was totally byuing that 💔💔
Winds are coming
Asoiaf got you from "I don't like reading child violence" before book 1 to cheering for "had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey" by book 5.
Ayyyyy lmao
Truly my own anti heroes journey 😭
Probably the best quote from the Quote Goat, Wyman Manderly
@@billjoe8734 facts
@@billjoe8734 Fishman is the best
😂😂
Less than the sum of its parts is a fantastic description for Dance. Definitely rated higher in my eyes based on the introduction of the best POV character of all time (Jon Connington).
Love your videos!
Quinn stays glazing Jon. ( the wrong Jon I might add)
Man, you and that Jon Con love.
Me in a “Battling for Jon Conn’s Bells” contest and my only opponent is Quinn.
**Squidward deflated nose.png**
Wait until she really starts getting into the theories! ASOIAF turns you into a fiend for this world. 😂😂 Here we are still waiting for Winds of winter!
You're right to think the book feels unfinished.
A Dance With Dragons was originally supposed to end with the battles at Meereen and Winterfell. George had already set a publication date for the book as he was writing it. However, the deadline was approaching and he still hadn't finished writing those battles. At this point, the book had already been delayed a bunch of times. So rather than delay it again, he moved those battles to the start of The Winds of Winter, assuming the book would be out a couple years after so it wouldn't be a big deal.
Oh so it feels slightly unfinished because it was unfinished ☠️
this decision really hurts dance i think. All that build up and no resolve to the plotlines
Yeah, I wish he had just released a short part 2 to actually finish dance, you can tell from the sample chapters that they don't feel like the next book
@@__kunalI agree and disagree. I actually think the northern plotline ended at the exact right place. Ending the book at Jon’s assassination/Theon’s escape from Winterfell and saving the Battle of Ice for TWOW I think was 100% the correct decision. However, this book *really* needed to have the Battle of Fire in it to feel complete. A solid 70% of the book is building up to it and so many character arcs feel incomplete without it, Tyrion’s in particular
I heard differently, that it was because the book was already long enough and him and his people didn't want to make it bigger.
"When the epilogue started with Kevan, I had the thought 'Is George going to kill Kevan?'" IIRC every prologue and epilogue in the series ends with the POV character dying.
The way I look at Theon's chapters is that they kind of scold the readers. As readers we wish punishment onto him, some even a severe and harsh one at that. When we see said punishment done we realize that our wish for revenge just created an even more horrible monster. Because such is the way of revenge - things only get worse.
And the reason I slot in the readers as those wanting revenge is that this isn't what drives Ramsay. It's not him whose wishes for revenge create those horrors, it's our wishes for revenge.
Excellent call.
Damn, good take
fire take
Please give us all the song and ice fire content possible haha. You’re single handedly bringing back the love for song of ice and fire. With the frustration of the show and winds not coming out. Your reviews remind me how good this series is. Might have to do a re-read myself lol.
Yes I agree so so much. Her analysis is so good and it's so nice to see someone make the same emotional journey most went through like going from hating Jaime to loving him etc
I already started my reread so join me 😌
@@Bookborn haha guess ill have to do it. This really is one your all time favorites if your re-reading it this fast.
A reread is a fall activity she said haha@@Bookborn
watching you be so excited about ASOIAF has made me want to reread the books myself and I'm already midway clash of kings
Such a good choice I'm also reread already lmao
My favorite line from this book comes from when Jon Con reminisces at Griffin’s Roost about Rhaegar and everything that’s happened so far: “I rose too high, loved too hard, dared too much. I tried to grasp a star, overreached, and fell.”
Jon "Bell PTSD" Conn.
Cant wait to see more of him
Tried to reach a star and fell? Like a fallen star??? Jon is a hidden Dayne confirmed!
It’s epic I still can’t believe the show omitted his character
Awesome! I can’t wait for your Winds review in 8 years
Actually George saw I was ready for winds and said “ok better publish it now” 😌
8 years! Someone feeling optimistic today I guess.
@@Bookborn I reread these books almost once a year and I always tell myself ‘after this reread WoW will come out’ I read the books for the first time in 2013. 😭 😭
@@Bookborn actually winds of winter is 75% done and that is like a year ago so winds is coming soon hopefully
@@Rqqz551yeah it might be another 3-4 years but definitely not 8. Someone want a whiff of my copium? I still got a full tank of it
The fact that you wanted more at the end for the characters makes sense because George had so many chapters when he was writing dance that he had to cut the book short and added the end of dance to the beginning of winds instead
Ahhh so many books have had trajectories messed with because of that. Any time I’ve read a series where the final books get split in half I feel they always suffer a bit as individual books.
There are about 10 priview chapters of WoW released by GRRM, most of them are the ones cut from DoD, if you want to look them up...
@@nickelecaroba*DwD as in Dance with dragons. The dance of dragons is what happens in fire and blood
@nickelecaroba pretty sure all of them were originally Dance chapters. Some were moved to WoW earlier than others, but they were all just leftover material from this book
Love how you’ve went from “never reading it, not interested” to full on wearing a House Start shirt 😂😂😂 bigger turnaround that Theon
Truly a full character arc from me, the reader.
@@BookbornNo one blames you. Writing this good is unfortunately very rare in fantasy. It was already limited, but now it's essentially non-existent with new fantasy (that is basically YA, posing as adult). Sci-fi authors need to start writing fantasy to try and save this genre.
@@alb0zfinest Yeah it is interesting how many writers people consider good in fantasy vs sci Fi but you do have the couple super heavy weights holding the entire fantasy genre up and making up for it.
There's a lot of underappreciated fantasy fiction from the 90s and early 2000s, the Dark Sun books, several of the Faerun series like The Threat From the Sea, Druidhome, and Giants series. Dark Sun is probably the closest to Martin's work, and it as well as the "Aebrynis" setting are likely huge influences on George's work
@Bookborn If you're interested in one of the early influences in Martin's work, check out Ed Stark's work with TSR, and the fiction associated with D&D's old "Birthright" setting. The first "Iron Throne" as it were
Jaime knighting Brienne (in an episode titled “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms” ❤) followed quickly by Podrick singing a hauntingly beautiful version of “Jenny’s Song” was definitely the emotional peak of the last two seasons for me.
Idk if you saw me flash it on screen at the end of the video but my friend sent me the knighting clip and I CRIED lmao ☠️
It's crazy how people called that episode filler at the time only for it to end up being the best of the last two seasons. It's just full of heart
@@PristianoPenaldoSUIIIInot so much filler, but a character focused episode. D&D were pretty solid at dialogue, they are terrible at advancing the plot on their own though. This was an episode of people talking and personal drama, and because of that it wound up being the last good episode of Game of Thrones 😢
AAAHH you’ve finally read them all! I hope you review the winds of winter sample chapters soon!
oh I didn't know this was a thing. I need to find them.
@@chrisevans8118 they're amazing, most of all the forsaken. Theon's great too
I want to wait, but who knows how long it will take for the book to come out. Luckily, I've only caught up fairly recently. I'm currently out of novels to read, though. I just need to read the picture books.
@@chrisevans8118 absolutely
Thinking THIS WEEK!! I'm ready lol
And now our watch has ended. 😢
no no no now the watch has just BEGUN it's fire&blood and insane theory time
@@Bookborn 👀 👀 Would you ever do one of those “theory iceberg” videos? Or generally go over which theories you believe vs highly doubt?
I think you mean _and now your watch BEGINS!_
@@BookbornI'd suggest u to read some of the sample chapters from Winds, especially Forsaken. It elevates a certain character to a new level imo
Great video! For me, Dance has some of the best *and* some of the most boring (cough cough, Dany) chapters. Onwards to Winds of Winter... whenever that is 👀
I’m glad we agree on Dany chapters 😬Bible her as a character but man in this book some of those chapters were a snooze fest
Oh hi there Late Lord Haven
Yes to Stanning Kevan Lannister! Sadly, Ian Gelder, who played him on the show, just passed away. 😔
Uncle Kevan is the best! I'm so glad to hear you like him too! I mourn his death as well, but I take comfort in the knowledge that Aunt Genna is still around for now. And she tells it like it is too. Loved her last scene with Jamie in AFFC.
That is one of my favorite interactions in the series. I just reread it yesterday. It's sooo good.
The sad thing about the Walk of Shame is that Cersei doesn't actually get punished for her true crimes, she gets punished for adultery.
Strange how Lancel never had to walk through the city naked after he confessed to the High Septon...
yes yes OK EXACTLY I didn't want to get into it but it's so interesting because that scene is like actually showing some intense sexism towards Cersei! But at the same time, none of us like cersei and we know she's done really horrible things. George is just so MASTERFUL and weaving the sexism she receives into the story because it's both REAL (she IS treated differently because she's a woman!) and MADE UP (sometimes what she thinks is sexism is her just being an idiot). Bad people we dislike can still experience prejudice! idk idk the whole thing is just done so well maybe I need to make an entire video on it lmao
Lancel isn't the queen mother is he..
Lancel was uncompromised, from the nobility and confessed on his own volution to the High Septon in a time the Faith of the Seven had less influence and power. He was, additionally, very sick and weak around the confession period and for a good amount of time after.
Cersei was compromised, from the royalty and confessed to some, not all, of her crimes after being accused by another to the High Sparrow (after all, Cersei killed the previous, meeker High Septon) in a time the Faith of the Seven acquired a lot of influence and power - in huge part because of Cersei herself. She is, additionally, able to make such a walk around the confession period.
As for the High Sparrow's treatment of Lancel. He converted, let go of his titles, of his possessions and joined the Warrior's Sons.
The Walk of Atonement is a sex based punishment indeed but these two are not in the same circumstances at all. We'll never know exactly but it's a certainty that previous High Septon, during early aSoS (when Lancel confessed) would've been a lot more lenient towards her. I doubt the Walk of Atonement would even cross their mind back when Tywin was still alive and the Faith was weaker.
Lancel would not have needed to because he wasn't commiting adultery. No, he would have been executed for treason.
@@Bookbornit’s easier to enjoy if you stop trying to make everything about gender
I saw your 4.5 stars on instagram and was slightly disappointed but after hearing your reasoning on why you gave it a 4.5 stars I completely agreed. I think for me part of my love for this book is the amount of theorycrafting and anticipation it gave me for the next book. Ever since I first read ADWD I've been picking it apart for years trying to figure out the hints and foreshadowing that fills each and every chapter in order to try and figure out what happens next. The Winds of Winter to me has always felt more like a part 2 of ADWD because of the fact that so many of the character arcs and plotpoints were left unfinished. Anyways thanks for the reviews! As a longtime fan of the series it's been super interesting to see how a new fan reacts to each book.
I have a feeling every ASOIAF will be 5 stars on the reread tbh
Now you can start reading and watching the 13 years worth of theories people have made while they waited for Winds of Winter!
The world building in Fire & Blood is really interesting if you’re into that, but what really makes it great are all the parallels to the main series and clues about what might come next.
There’s also a series of blog essays called “Untangling the Meereenese Knot” that GRRM read and he said they understood his intentions for the Meereen chapters perfectly. super interesting read and made me realize how much I’d missed in Dany’s chapters
The idea that this book felt imcomplete at the end definitely has merit especially George admitted he had written chapters that he ended up cutting out and leaving for Winds. So he did want to have some more at the end, but due to size constraints, he ended up cutting.
Great video! Was eagerly waiting for it.
I am happy that we can finally talk about this series without risk of spoilling you.
To me, the best summarization I've read about ASOIAF's message was done by Poorquentyn on the fith part of his "Men's Lives Have Meaning" series on Quentyn's chapters:
““Men’s lives have meaning, not their unlife” is the closest we’ve gotten to an overarching thesis statement for ASOIAF. It reaches all the way back to the first book, to Ned (who, like Quent, turns out to not be the protagonist after all) and his shocking fate. So many readers have interpreted that moment, as well as the Red Wedding two books later, as being indicative of nihilism on GRRM’s part. Everything is chaos, honor gets you unalived and is therefore worthless, “power is power.” But this is not so. Ned’s legacy is not his unlife, it is his life. The children determined to find each other again because Dad taught them to stick together and be brave, the vassals who have set out to rescue and restore those children in his name, the memory both in-universe and IRL of a decent man who treated his servants like human beings worth listening to and who was determined to protect the young and innocent… All of this is the meaning of Ned Stark, not that he ended up as a head on a spike. By the same token, the meaning of Tywin Lannister isn’t that he was unalived on the can. It’s why he was unalived on the can, and that is because he lived a terrible life. His legacy is his family tearing itself apart, his hoped-for Lannister regime falling to pieces across Westeros, and his oh-so-symbolic reeking unalived body. One of these men, for all his mistakes, found and spread a worthy meaning in his brief time on Terros, and the other, for all his triumphs, did not. We are all mortal; all of us, “from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat,” are ultimately helpless before the abyss that Quent leaps into in his final chapter. No one can change that. What matters, what makes us who are, what means something, is how we live our lives knowing that in the end, the house always wins.”
(slightly edited by me due to YT and early Windos of Winter released chapters reasons)
Thank you so much for sharing this quote. I seriously LOVE IT. what a great theme I didn’t even think of
@@Bookborn You are welcome hahaha I also love it and thought you would as well
@@Bookborn here is another quote you might like, from Martin himself (again slightly edited by me due to YT reasons):
Interviewer: Do you think the world of Ice and Fire is a pessimistic world where you get caught up in struggles and you can’t overcome them? Is Winter coming or is there actually hope?
George: In a very basic level winter is coming for all of us. I think that’s one of the things that art is concerned with: the awareness of our own mortality. “Valar morghulis” - “All men must unalive”. That shadow lies over our world and will until medical science gives us all immortality… But I don’t think it makes it necessarily a pessimistic world. Not any more pessimistic than the real world we live in. We’re here for a short time and we should be conscious of our own mortality, but the important thing is that love, compassion and empathy with other human beings is still possible. Laughter is still possible! Even laughter in the face of unlife… The struggle to make the world a better place… We have things like war, unaliving someone else and r*p*… Horrible things that still exist, but we don’t have to accept them, we can fight the good fight. The fight to eliminate those things. There is darkness in the world, but I don’t think we necessarily need to give way to despair. One of the great things that Tolkien says in Lord of The Rings is “despair is the ultimate crime”. That’s the ultimate failing of Denethor, the Steward of Gondor, that he despairs of ever being able to defeat Sauron. We should not despair. We should not go gentle into that good night. So winter is coming, but light the torches, drink the wine and gather around the fire, we can still defy it!
from the video "George R.R. Martin, Lena Headey & Michelle Fairley at Sydney Opera House, 2013" at 1:09:40
Such an accurate comparison of the legacy of Ned Stark (called a political idiot by most of the fandom) and Tywin (political genius, but everything he built collapses on his death and rots).
Ned's legacy living on leads to one of the (many) great paragraphs in ADWD from Big Bucket Wull:
I want to live forever in a land where summer lasts a thousand years. I want a castle in the clouds where I can look down over the world. I want to be six-and-twenty again. When I was six-and-twenty I could fight all day and fuck all night. What men want does not matter. Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned's little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.
Even years after his death, Ned Stark's legacy is enough to pull together many northerners into varied conspiracies to get rid of the Bolton's and freys and restore the Starks. The clansmen calling him 'The Ned' always gets me everytime I re-read the northern arc in dance.
That's why the starks will endure, and the boltons, freys and lannisters will wither despite their seeming destruction of the northern cause with the Red Wedding.
You are sad that you're done the books, and I'm sad that your first reactions videos are done 🤣 I will always look fondly on this era in a few years when you are doing deep dives about Qhorin Halfhand and Arthur Dayne and doing ranking videos about your favorite lemoncakes. We started from the bottom now we here 💪
Everyone thank Kyle because he's the reason I read the series
I would love to ask George if mance or arthur would win in a fight.
Thanks kyle ❤
Thanks, Kyle. But hey, don't be sad, because now come the theory videos and those are a whole new and exciting journey. Now where was Tyrek last seen?
@@dr.embersfield1551 Varys has him and intends to use him for Aegon as a way to hold the westerlands.
That manderly "the North remembers" quote is top tier. I've watched all of your asoiaf reviews and have enjoyed your thoughts on every nook 👌🏾 I look forward to reading some more books and checking out your other reviews as well
I was so excited for u to read the Jaime chapter since the last video when you were talking about Brienne’s ending
I literally smiled SO BIG when I saw his name like plz why do I love this man so much
@@Bookborn literally same him and Brienne’s chapters are my favourite just cuz I love them so much
The Pink Letter: There are a ton of different theories. Some people think it was Mance, because the letter references him the most (and Mance is pretty self-centered) and also because of the use of the word "Crows" for the Night's Watch, which is usually only used by Wildlings. Mance's motivation could be hoping Jon would come and distract everyone, allowing Mance to escape, Mance now knowing how much more dangerous Winterfell is under the Boltons rather than the Starks.
Another great theory is that it's from Melisandra (by way of the Castle Black measter, who was unaccountably super nervous delivering the letter). Mel's motivation would simply be to get Jon away from the Castle before her fire-vision of assassination could come to pass (and of course it's him declaring that he's leaving to attack the south that was the final straw that caused the assassination is just how Mel's luck goes).
Oh Melisandre sending the letter is a VERY interesting theory…. Thoughts… thinking thoughts…
My favorite theory is that the letter was written (or re-written) by Bowen Marsh & company to goad Jon into breaking his vows as a pretext for killing him. But nobody really knows! 😅
What about the theory that it was Wyman Manderly, trying to stir up even more trouble at Winterfell?
@@tasha5605I didn’t hear of this theory til recently and always thought it was Ramsay that wrote it, he’s just wrong, but I’m starting to buy the Bowen theory. The whole part of why is Clydas so scared to give it to Jon makes a lot of sense if he feels guilty for altering the letter
I am really boring and think Ramsay wrote it. I dont think its Wyman since Jon would be to late to help the battle anyways and would just confuse succesion with Rickon. I think Mance is possible although I think he wouldnt put his people at risk (cause if Jon rode south they would probably follow him because of how the letter threatened them). The personality of the letter matches Ramsey, the reason it looks different from his previous ones is because he wrote it in a rush. He is just about to battle Stannis after all
I'm not even 5 seconds into the video, but I was really looking forward to this, so I'm just gonna drop a pre-emptive "Nice."
The way I discovered your channel yesterday through your aGoT video, binged a whole bunch of videos, and now the Dance review is finally out! Divine timing
Let's put this timing out into the universe so that somehow I get Winds of Winter right after finishing Dance 🤣
I'm so glad you're caught up with the rest of us now!! I don't care if I seem delulu over this take, I think this was an EXCELLENT time to get into this series because I strongly believe we will see the winds of winter release within the next two years. No comment on the final book lol
Theon is one of those characters that I think really displays how well George can write psychological horror. I appreciate with my whole being that we are never actually shown his torment in real time - by only being in his head well after the fact, we are left to simply speculate on how exactly he was tormented. Not only is this a huge relief to the reader, as I'm sure none of us actually wanted a window into those moments, but the uncertain element simultaneously makes it SCARIER and gives Ramsay this really terrifying aspect because we don't ever know what he's fully capable of. The show really blunders this and just ventures into sadistic voyeurism. It's not effective at making Ramsay intimidating and every scene is just pointless and agonizing to watch.
I will join you in the delulu 👯♀
Psychological horror is such a good way to describe it - we didn't need to see (and I'm glad we didn't since I'm a baby) the torture to know how devastating it was to him. Just seeing Theon as a shell of his former self was SO riveting and horrible
@@Bookbornthe show did show it in real time, slowly, over like two seasons. As you can imagine, I am not a fan of that approach. It was so powerful in the book, in part because of that absence!
@@Bookborn Speaking of the Theon chapters, my personal belief is that the Pink Letter is actually written by Mance Rayder, when he's disguised as Abel the Bard, who would be one of the only people that has the motive and means to do so.
He's working for Melisandre, and the person that benefits most from the Pink Letter would be Stannis, since the logical outcome of that letter(to Mel at least) would have been Jon leading the Watch and wildlings to fight the Boltons. And Mance would know most of the things going on at Winterfell, he knows the layout of Winterfell, having visited it twice before, and we hear that Lewin's tower is uninhabited, so perhaps he stole the wax from there, but naturally did not have access to Ramsay's seal.
This explanation isn't perfect, and one has to make quite a few assumptions for it to work, but seems to make the most sense so far.
Couldn’t agree more with the title! I think George wanted to present Theon as a bad person so he could tear him down and build him up again, almost like a more extreme version of Jamie
What is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger
I saw one reply that said theon's treatment in dance was a dig at the reader. When we saw what he did to the kids, we wanted him to suffer for it, so GRRM humored us and gave theon the most horrific disgusting treatment imaginable. Now, we have to live with ourselves and know that what's happening to him is our fault. I thought that was a really cool take too.
Yessss I was waiting for you to reach Theon he’s genuinely my favorite pov in the series 😭
I cannot believe how good his POVs were in this book. Clash version of me could’ve NEVER guessed
“Ramsey is the most evil person in the series”
Euron in the ‘Forsaken’ sample chapter for Winds: Allow me to introduce myself.
😬 he’s such a vile person and terrifying pretty disappointing what the show did even the actor who plays Euron was disappointed with how they took his character and just made him into a typical villain but not even intimidating
Someone said in video essay that Euron basically Ramsay, Joffrey, & the Mountain wish they could be. He genuinely dangerous and cunning, with a well-earned reputation, the authority to back it up, and a gift for manipulating. He sadastic like Joffrey but people actually fear him & is intelligent. Vastly more cunning & manipulative than Ramsay. Unlike Mountain he independent & isn’t a mindless lapdog.
When I finished reading ASOIAF I was so sad that I read :"A Knight of the seven kingdoms,Fire&Blood,The world of Ice&Fire and The rise of the Dragon" And I re-watched :"House of The Dragon" and "Game of Thrones" . Also, I don't mind if the book series doesn't have a proper ending. Even unfinished, it is my favorite books series ever. I might love ASOIAF just as much as I love "Berserk".Berserk has been my favorite manga and fantasy story since 1995.
I love that Young Griff's entourage is literally a classic fantasy DnD party
And George likes to break general fantasy tropes so it would make sense that this is only an illusion, a game, and young griff is not what he seems. Like in the Blackfyre theory
just wanted to express my gratitude for sharing your perspective here, it is so refreshing to hear what such an attentive reader as you has to say about this series without having been part of the community for years already
Rereading the series is so worthwhile. Every time I go through the books again, I pick up new stuff. The subtle foreshadowing and symbolism is everywhere, and it makes me love George's writing more with every reread. I'm actually kind of thankful Winds hasn't been published, because if we finally get it I'll be much more prepared now.
22:30 also the three missing freys and the three pies, yum yum
Sing the song of the rat cook!
Make sure you taste *each* of the pies! And Wyman's having seconds!
yes I knew something was sus about those pies and Kyle gave me the lore drop about the song 😂 epic and incredibly gross all at the same time
@@Bookborn I think George is warning the world not to mess with rotund older men who smile all the time...
@@thing_under_the_stairsThe real theory behind ASOIAF??? George is probably also a horse
Alt Shift X has a lot of videos where he dives deep into various theories for the books. His video on the pink letter is very interesting as he covers all the main suspects and the supporting evidence in the books!
Welcome to the winds waiting room. The couches are uncomfortable but the copium cocktails are strong.
I don't know if I've commented before, but I wanted to let you know that I've been following your journey because I was so excited to live vicariously through another woman reading the books for the first time. I LOVE these books, and I try to evangelize them when I can. Your videos actually jump started my 5th reread, and I'm currently working my way through AFFC.
I started these books in college over a decade ago. It was a total whim. The show had had a first season, but I hadn't watched it. It sounded like something I would like, but thought I would get to it eventually. My mom had picked up a tie-in cover book as an impulse, and didn't like it, so I took it with me to campus. I had NO context, NO knowledge, nothing. It inflamed me. Just like you said at the end of this video, it had been so long since reading a book took hold of me and was this exciting. I used to scoot my ass to my next classroom and sit in the hallway to read between class, and I remember I had a couple days where I had a two hour break between classes and I would just sit on the floor in the busy hallway and read and read (I probably should have done homework, oh well lol).
It's been hard finding books that have come close to getting me that excited. I've returned to the books every four years or so (despite taking moooonths to re-read lol) precisely because they are so rich, fun, and moving. They always recapture me. There's always something I missed. And of course, since I've been reading these books longer, I've lurked on all the forums and read a lot of smart theories that I accept now, which has just made them even more enjoyable seeing how GRRM has craft so much story in these books!
Anyway, I agree with you that speaking honestly about the sex and violence is good. I never try to tell people it's perfect. I don't love every choice he made so far. I tell people their mileage can very depending on the amount of sexual violence they're willing to read. But when I have turned people onto the books, they're always shocked that it wasn't what they expected.
This is a long comment, I just wanted to encourage you that there are other female readers who love these books and think similarly to you, and that I'm excited for more content! When you get into your reread, I'll probably comment more theory stuff. Once you connect more dots, I think you'll find even more to love! :)
Oh also, I totally agree, I am not salty about GRRM not publishing TWOW yet. I don't think he owes me anything, and I think people don't realize how many words he's already written for us in this world. Like, he's wild, he's been prolific. I feel like when people complain that TWOW isn't finish, they're saying they want content over writing. I love George's prose! I want the story written by George, not the plot points just listed out, so if it takes him twenty years to write TWOW, then that's just how it goes. We'll get what we get, and he's already accomplished so much. I'm thankful to him. (but it would be really nice if it came out soon lol)
That book is so good! I enjoyed it so much that I read it twice back to back.Also, I re-watched GOT with my wife and I still have some issues with the last two seasons however,I think I enjoyed the show a lot more compared to the first time I watched it. What they accomplished with the series is truly amazing, and even the "bad" seasons are far better than a lot of TV shows out there. At least,for me.
Couldn't agree more!
I've always loved how Margeary got to go back to the Red Keep intact while Cersei, who planned it all, ended up disgracing herself in the walk of shame.
37:40 Okay last comment.
Yes! Open and honest dialogue emboldens people to be curious about something.
I’ve said it before, (having not seen you before your GoT review) but I was expecting your critiques to be really surface level criticisms actually were very well thought out and genuine concerns.
Not only did you change MY perspective on some of those scenes. But I am sooooo glad you’ve encouraged so many to read such an excellent series.
I look forward to the non-aSoIaF content. Your content rocks.
I'm gonna miss this review videos, you made me relive all the emotions of reading it for the first time, thank you so much!!!! Can't wait for the new contents
Welcome to the other side, glad you thoroughly enjoyed the amazing journey. I’m sick and I’m ready to read it for the 4th time already after finishing my third read a few months ago.
FINALLY! I found your channel very recently and binged all of your ASOIF book reviews and got to the end, and was so sad you that you hadn't released the last review yet.
So happy you started the video with your ACOK Theon review!! When you went over Theon in ACOK, it took everything in my being to not allude to you regretting that opinion. You’re one of the few CZcamsrs who hold the last two books at the same level as the first three. Your opinions and viewpoint helped me grow an appreciation for AFWC
You say Ramsay Bolton is the most evil character in these books but after reading Winds preview chapters about Euron i think that Ramsay is baby evil, like what a child deciding to become evil would become. Euron is capital E Evil. An eldritch summoner of the apocalypse level evil.
No Ramsay is Evil.
Euron is like Cthulu.
Hes the devil.
The guy is beyond evil.
Hes like a god of death and misery.
The guy is literally the Anti-God of every religion ever.
Hes the guy who wants an apocalypse.
I agree with you on not regretting reading it because it doesn't have an ending. It's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all.
I cannot tell you how much I've loved watching you journey through the series for the time time! Looking forward to many more Asoiaf videos to come.
Here's hoping we get the next book sometime in the future.
Thank you for letting us live vicariously through you and experience this story with fresh eyes! Glad i found your channel, I'd love to see you delve into ASoIaF theories and some of the lore going forward!
It is also so interesting that you released this today, since the actor for Kevan passed away yesterday
I’ve been reading these books coincidently at the same time your making these videos and have been looking g forward to this one!
So happy to see you complete the main series. It’s been a lot of fun watching you go through it all. Maybe a fire and blood review or a house of the dragon review in the future would be fun.
Just wanted to say that I've enjoyed your content for awhile and I'm glad you ended up loving ASOIAF as much I have. You have a real talent for putting into words a lot of what I had felt while reading these books but I could never articulate it like you seem to do so easily. Keep up the great work!!
So, I binged all 4 of the previous videos on a drive several months ago, and I was looking for some “new blood/less deep dive” game of thrones content, I thought back to these reviews and wondered “has bookborn finished the last one yet? That would be perfect.”
I came here and it was released 2 hours ago, haven’t watched yet, but this is EXACTLY what I wanted today
I was waiting for this video for so long!!! Your EQ is off the charts! Great video as always!!! Edit: 10:55 wait until you read the Forsaken sample chapter from TWOW!
Excited you're through it all and now the deep dive can happen. Always one of the things thats helps me get through the hangover after finishing something epic like ASOIAF. Looking forward to all the content to come (when you're ready) especially your thoughts on the WOW Forsaken chapter
PS: It was Manderly
I finished feast and dance right around the same time you put out your videos. Going through an awful book hangover too and it doesn’t help that I’m graduating college and leaving my education job next week. So just wanted to express deep gratitude for your ASOIAF videos. Love the commentary and criticism!
Biggest theoris for Pink Letter
1. Mance (why would Ramsay care so much about wildlings? And "Black Crows" is almost exclusively a wildling term)
2. Stannis ( he is in dire need of reinforcement and is quoted "you may hear i am dead, it may even be true."
3. Melisandre/Wyman Manderly (both want Jon away from Castle Black but their plan royally backfires)
Stannis doesnt really do that stuff tho.
He doesnt like the whole intrigue and lying things.
Mance is the obv choice,"crow","tear out your heart" and "biggest fire".
Another interesting theory is that its Lady dustin and Theon in the crypts.
I think Mance is smart enough not to use ”black crows”. It is still possible but I think its probably Ramsey (I know really boring)
And you are so right about Tyrion's Dany speech: absolutely brilliant
YESSSS! Been looking forward to this review. You are going to love the reread and I cant recommend enough doing the combo read for the last two books for this go around. I did the boiled leather set up.
I really really hope we get more ASOIAF content from you because these videos literally make my entire day. I love your takes! 💕🫂
No POV review for Victarian Greyjoy? But he's the most critical character in the entire book. Who else could possibly help deliver compassion to a world so lost to winter?
The fandom has speculated it was Mance Rayder (who was posing as Abel) wrote the Pink letter, trying to egg Jon into returning to Winterfell
I think Mance is the most likely to have written it. There are other theories but some of them are a stretch at best.
That or Melisandre, they are the only two that know all these details and both have reasons to push Jon into action. I lean towards Melisandre because as far as I know, we’ve never seen either read or write. Out of those two though, I think she would be more likely to be able to.
Ohhh let’s go I was waiting for this! Would love to see you get into some ASOIAF content creators streams. I like your analysis and would love to see you bounce ideas of ppl like David Lightbringer!
Your observations on the Pink Letter were amazingly astute for a first time reader. Loved hearing your thoughts on the series!
A Q&A livestream would be really nice to get deeper into the analysis and theories :D
I don't think you ever talked about Jon's parents or all the prophecies that much, and those are the gold standard for ASOIAF theories, so it would be nice to hear your thoughts about it :D
So I was circling my own theory at the end of adwd because some things clicked, and then as I reread the first 40 pages of AGOT I was like... ok I THINK I GOT IT.
(Spoilers)
My thought is that Lyanna is Jon's mom... and his dad is Rhaegar.
@@Bookborn The fandom accepts this as fact at this point. The question remains: so what? Why is this important? Does it give Jon some magical powers? Fulfill prophecies?
You should do a theory video before you get tainted by the existing theories that we've all read more than the books at this point. Maybe have Kyle ask you questions in a livestream or something so we can watch your reactions to popular theories.
@@Bookborn Your up to date so I dont feel bad about spoiling anything... Its Ned and Ashara Dayne and Mance Rayder is Arthur Dayne.
@@jacks6235 far less likely since D&D only got the show bc they guessed jons mom correctly
@@DrAwesome43George really doesnt like the special powers bcs mommy and daddy were gods type thing.
I really hope he doesnt get some special treatment cause of it.
Yay! Congratulations on catching up to all the books!!! I love your reviews on ASOIAF, you have a fresh and quite interesting perspective I hadn't seen before! I hope one day you'll be reviewing the Winds of Winter when it eventually comes out :)
PS. All POV characters in prologues and epilogues in a ASOIAF die at the end of those chapters, so that's probably how you figured out Kevan was going to die
I didn’t realize that consciously but clearly did subconsciously 🤣
I really appreciate your take on the book. It's clear that those are your own thoughts and experiences with the story, which are at the same time creative and analytical. Subscribed!
I’ve followed you peripherally for a bit now but you caught some things about this story that makes you stand out, specifically about Theon’s thought process as Reek. It makes me wish I’d read the books before the show. Keep up the good work!
Now that you're doing the reread, try to catch all the foreshadowing and clues, especially about the Red Wedding.On a different note, pay attention to Ned's chapters in AGOT becasue there are things that only he knows.
First I already figured out Jon’s parentage in the first 40 pages of my reread ☠️ I was circling the truth anyway at the end of adwd but it’s SO OBVIOUS. and I was texting my friend that George literally HEAPS foreshadowing lmao like how did I not know this man was clearly going to die 😭
@@Bookborn Yeah he's really good at foreshadowing and surprising us readers XD. I'm glad you enjoyed the books and you'll see how they're endlessly rereadable, I just love them.
@@Bookborn There's a chapter in I think clash? From Catelyn's POV that has some BEAUTIFUL foreshadowing of lady Stoneheart, even evoking imagery of drowning the way they dumped her body in the river. Definitely look out for that on your re-read!
It's not quite foreshadowing, but a line that breaks my fucking heart whenever I read it is when Ned discovers the truth about Joffrey's heritage and thinks about how he'd have to tell Sansa when she's older that she was responsible for that revelation.
@@Bookborn George didn't know it would be a 6+ book series when he wrote AGoT so the Jon hints are definitely front-loaded there. He backed-off on them as the story grew.
I finished my first read a few months ago and it's been fun to follow your videos. I was so excited for Dance because it had my favorite characters, but I was also just slightly disappointed like you. It was the only book in the series that didn't read like a standalone, it was such a connector book which sucks because the books it's building to isn't out.
That’s a good way to describe it - it’s sort of a tunnel between books
It’s very clear that George has two big knots he needs to untangle. The North and Mereen are such clusters rn, I get why he’s struggled so hard. I sure as heck couldn’t pull it off.
My copium is that, Winds will have to set everything up for Dream’s resolution that after Winds, George will have a much easier time writing it.
I just discovered your channel yesterday, caught up with your asoiaf book reviews and today your Dance video comes out. Perfect timing
I like your suspicions about the Pink Letter! There is much speculation about it in the fandom. Definitely looking forward to hearing your thoughts on some of the more obscure theories people have had over the last decade.
ADWD was my favorite in the series (so far). I'm surprised it wouldn't be top 3 fav. series book for ANYONE. Good to hear someone else's opinion on the series. So glad you read (and enjoyed) the books and made this series of videos sharing your thoughts!
it's so good
it's mine too after Storm, but I get also that the fact that some character's arcs in the book end before Martin planned can be a drawback
It is really good but it does end leaving you kinda in the middle of the arcs and there isn't a lot happening compared to for example ASOS. AFFC has the same issues kinda which is why I'm surprised that was her favorite and this her least favorite but after all, like she also said, all of them are so incredible and well written. It's kinda hard to really make a ranking I think
I'm pretty sure all the asoiaf books will be 5 stars on reread, I can feel it
The best book is a feast of dragons 😊
Why you ignored Bran ? 😭😭 His final chapter in this book is my favorite in all ASOIAF, so poetic and beautiful. Very underrated!
I did mention Bran but yes only briefly 🥲 His scenes were the ones that moved me the most emotionally, even though I only mentioned his inclusion in Theon's chapter, I found Bran's chapter just as moving when he sees all through the godswoods! And thank you so much!
@@Bookbornwhat was your reaction when the three eyed crow was blood raven from dunk and egg?
Congratulations on reading them all! I started officially reading asoiaf around the time you posted your first review so I kind of feel like we did this together 🤣
I would love to see you watch and review the show next!
What about Bran?!?
Welcome to the waiting for Winds club! This was an epic series of videos. Thank you for letting me experience a first read again through your perspective ❄️🔥❄️🔥
Your analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of this book are spot on to how I felt. I liked this one more on the reread, actually. And even though I agree with you that authors don't owe us and unfinished series are fine, there were so many loose threads after this book that it does feel frustrating. I just want to know what's going to happen! It is definitely paced as a setup book that gets paid off in the next installation. The TV show did provide some answers, but they weren't well executed and we just know George could do it better.
The point you made about Tyrion understanding Dany was interesting, and it does seem to indicate that they could be great partners if they team up.
Honestly that was one of my biggest disappointments - when the beginning of the book set up that Dany and Tyrion might meet, I was like LETS GO!!! That is suuuch an interesting pairing.
At 16:20 when you talk about the Tyrion monologue about Dany, I couldn't help but read self reflection in that. Growing up in a harsh situation with only a brother for a friend, becoming strong out of necessity, prideful out of spite and holding on to the only things she has? sounds familiar
THIS IS WHY I AM SAD TYRION AND DANY NEVER MET UP. They're interactions would be soooooo interesting
the way you understood the characters is really amazing!
I just saw your video on my recommended and I’d like to say you’re super well-spoken and enjoyable to watch! Subbed and can’t wait for more videos (Especially ASOIAF ones)! ❤️🤗
Glad to see you enjoyed dance! Even though it’s my favourite of the series I fully agree that feast feels more cohesive and overall the stories tie in thematically much better.
I think when splitting the books, George had the liberty of making the cut at appropriate points for feast, whereas in dance he had to publish what he had, leading to some of the plotlines feeling unfinished (e.g. the battles of ice and fire).
10:10 what’s great about that line is the real Arya DOES have grey eyes!
Yeah I know lol that’s why the line is so good 🥲
This is wonderful Bookborn. That these books have been welcomed into your favourites makes me SO HAPPY!! That you don't care that ASOIAF isn't finished, ALSO makes me happy. These books are a gift to fantasy readers. There's so much *IN* there! I've had literal years to think about the unfinished plot lines, to theorize about things GRRM has hinted at, that may or may not even be 'real' and I haven't resented a single moment of it, I've enjoyed the speculation.
Looking forward to the live wacky theories reactions 😁
Thank you Bookborn! it was fun checking each week for new ASOIAF review!
I wouldn't worry about reading Fire and Blood too slowly... I could not put that book down. Its like GRRM Concentrate: each page contains all the political machinations and character drama of 200 pages of ASOIAF (Though admittedly the first chapter about Aegon's Conquest is a little slow.) One tip that I wish I had done while reading: make a Targaryen family tree and include a one sentence note about each family member. I was able to keep everyone straight for a while, but once I got a few generations deep it was a real struggle.
The World of Ice and Fire is also worth reading. Although it's the least compelling book, it has some fun worldbuilding and is the basis for some of the wackier fan theories (Also note that the middle of it is literally a long summary of Fire and Blood, so that section can be skipped)
I’ve already been deeply wanting a family tree so that’s a great suggestion lol
@@Bookborn There is a Targ family tree included with Fire & Blood. It does contain spoilers (obviously) for who lives, dies, marries, etc.
Yes I’d love a Q&A live!
I read the series in about 3 months just as you were doing these reviews, I was eagerly awaiting this last one… I also hadn’t felt this connection to a story since reading Harry Potter as a kid, and was great to hear your thoughtful reflections along the way. We’ll all hope there will be more to come in the next few years
🤞🙂
Glad to hear that you enjoyed Dance. I've read it twice and it's currently my second favourite book in the series behind Feast and I feel with a 3rd read-through it could end up becoming my favourite book in the series.
Picking up on the issues with Ramsey's letter was really smart, especially with the wax vs. the seal. George put in a lot of moments where the characters pay attention to the seals, so it does seem important.
George literally describes every seal in such detail it starts feeling overkill like his food descriptions LMAO so when there wasn't a seal I was like OK WHATS HAPPENING (also jk because I actually live for the food descriptions, ngl)
"Edd, fetch me a block" for some reason sticks with me to this day
I've loved following your journey. Happy that you loved the series so much. I'm looking forward to watching your Winds of Winter review whenever that happens :)
The way you feel about dance is how I feel about your asoif videos. I need more!!! Very excited for future vids