Broken & Siezed Bolt Removal, DR 650 Cylinder Head
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2021
- One of my viewers had this DR 650 cylinder head with one broken bolt and another one that was seized up he could not remove, so he sent it down for me to see if I could help him out. I'll share with you some of my techniques on removing broken and stubborn bolts.
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I had good luck sometimes, not every time, welding a fender washer to the broken off bolt and then welding a nut to the top of the fender washer. Fender washers provide a larger surface area to weld to than a regular washer. Just for anyone that doesn't have access to a Bridgeport but has a welder. Good job!
Great job👍
As a Machinist for 35 years and the last 23 years as a Maintenance Machinist, I have done this same operation many times, and this guy did it exactly how it should be done.
Dude! I can see why your CZcams channel is so popular. You should be teaching machining to ALL the students at a high school. You could teach the students, patience, direction, level of thought, how to attack a problem, etc. these are life lessons for anybody.
That type of impact screwdriver is essential for any motorcycle mechanic, professional or armature. I have been on bikes for 47 years and won't be without that impact driver, it has saved my arse many, many times!
That was a masterclass in stud / screw removal by a machinist. Y'all know that Mustie1 would have just pulled them out by pure magic but this is the right way to do it. No drama, no risk to the surrounding metallurgy.
Adam did an elegant job.
As we say in the automotive repair world is .....every job is one broken bolt away from being a 10 hour job
I hear that!
that gave me goose bumps
@@ItsMrAssholeToYou A torque wrench works good bolting new stuff together, but on old stuff (and removing old rusty bolts is part of it) better do it by feeling.
@@Chris-yy7qc True, though some bolts seem destined to break no matter what you do
@@ItsMrAssholeToYou A "100% reliable method" doesnt exist.
Abom79 I've been turning wrenches for 44 years, and have come across this problem more times than I care to remember. That said, this was an excellent video. It may be a step up from what a DIY'er could do but that's why you should take problems like this to a PRO. Good job! "Minnesota Bill" "New subscriber"
Many people have explained what is happening here but I will give you the final correct answer. I studied and understand materials, I'm a Materials Scientist.
As previously explained here we have steel and aluminium joined as a thread rod. When installed together especially without antisieze between thread, these bolts can lock together especially if they corrode. Rust expands 5 to 10 % . This causes tremendous internal pressure. In addition differential corrosion can occur with dissimilar metals. The only true way to undo rusted and chemically
bonded bolts is to heat the bolt and cool it down QUICKLY with a wet rag ( heat it to say 800C). This heating by itself doesn't work all the time. Heat and sudden cooling give threads a thermal shock. I have proven this on a nut holding magneto cover on lawnmower. Heat alone would not loosen it. Thermal shock with cold water broke the bond. Also WD40 falsely claim they loosen bolts. That oil cannot penetrate a rusted bolt. They are spurious claims.
Have I helped anyone out there?
This whole video is why the guy asked you to help him out.Cheers ta
That was an exercise in patience and mechanical sympathy. Well done sir!
of course did you see all the stickers on his tool box?
a judicious amount of heat sometimes helps, as well when extracting - very nice job - you are a true craftsman!
You run a machine shop but your hands and clothes look like you're ready for church! Love the way you work, the way you explain what you're doing and, especially, why. You're a natural born teacher. Keep up the great work!
I enjoy the "simple" repair videos as much as the complicated ones.
The guy was smart to stop when he did and ask for some expert assistance.
And the Booth trio at the end always makes me smile.
Thanks.
Yes. Knowing when to stop and ask for a hand is a good thing to learn and i feel the same about the trio photo.
Yeh, collectively those 3 will have forgotten more about machining than you or I will ever know.
My Dad was a machinist as well as an auto mechanic (Tank mechanic US Army back in the 50s). One of the early lessons I remember him teaching me was knowing when to stop, back away, and rethink the problem!
Retired Master Mechanic here....
On Aluminum parts, you can HEAT or COOL the component to cause that metal to expand or shrink.
In this case, I'd have put that head in an oven, THEN try removing those bolts ! Try it, it works !
( this one: 350'F for 30 minutes before working on those bolts )
😊😊😊😊😊
I find your demeanor and knowledge, rather peaceful. Thank you for sharing your Craft.
I'm 76 years old, been doing this type of stuff most my life, and still learn something every single time I watch your clips. Thank you so much, and keep it up!!
Nothing like a good machinest and a well equipped shop. Thanks for the vid.
Such a pleasure to watch you do the job the right way using the right tools. Thank you for taking the time to share this 👍🏻👍🏻
I really miss this kind of work. Spent most of my life doing all kinds of tool work. Good to see the older techniques still being used. First off, fixturing your work properly is tantamount to applying force to the work piece, whether it be shock , twist or machining force. Patience when you have something to grip too and being conscious of saving the original threads is becoming a lost art. You can't always use a heli-coil or keensert so build your skillset to the worst case scenario and always get the job done. I used a dowel pin with a square ground face, to remove the radius edges, to align the drill chuck or mill collet. I kept a set of sizes including odd ball in between sizes made from ejector pins or any other decently group metal rod in the same box where I kept my edge finders and wigglers. My last job discarded so many great old mill accessories like dividing heads and adjustable angle plates, rotary tables etc. They really thought the CNC's didn't need any of it. Glad to see someone who knows better. Keep this kind of work alive friend and it was great to watch.
You very diligent in doing the removal of the bolts.
Thanks for added knowledge and experience.
Kudos for you
Few people could hold my interest for 30 mins with just a couple of busted bolts. Your patience in these simple yet tedious repairs and your precise methodical approach are always very calming to watch.
Picking the remaining bits of bolt out of the threads was super satisfying!
I kept saying, "use a pair of bent Hemostats!" He was extra good, to be able to get those big nosed pliers down in that little hole, to get hold of those threads that were left after drilling out the stud !
I'm only a learner, and I was extremely encouraged when Adam removed the first Bolt with his vice grips.
Just welding a nut has been 50/50 for me over the years BUT if u take a washer, weld the inside hole to the broken bolt and then weld a big as possible nut to the outside of the washer then try. Has work 100% for me from tinny screws to wheel studs on skidders and shears
Sir, that's a very good suggestion, thank you 😊
It tickles me the way so many commenters think they know a better way, or try to tell you how you should have done it. I think this was a master-class on removal of a seized bolt. Thank you. And if only people listened, you answered all the know-it-all’s as you went along. Les in UK
Off course machine shop is the best way to go but, not all diy have the money to pay, for a pro to do the job. They have to use plan B with exactly same end result.
Excellent work. Was good to see you use the same method I use as a 72year old engineer, loads of respect to you and your loved ones ❤. Rodge David kidderminster uk 🇬🇧❤
Patience and attention to detail shows up in your clean and organized shop, not to mention clean hands and and fingernails! Excellent video.
You stay so calm during this. 5 minutes in, I'd have quite the nervous sweat going, worrying about ruining the head, after 10 minutes I'd have invented new swear words and given up because my nerves couldn't take it. Awesome job as usual, love this channel.
Yeah! 30 minutes wiggling the bolt head is waaaayyy better than 3 hours trying to machine it out. Perfection!
This man is a professional.!!!!
Drilling is always the very last method I would try. Welding a larger nut onto the remaining thread has always worked for me. The heat really helps. I never try to remove a stuck bolt without using heat 1st particularly on exhaust bolts or studs.
However I do not have the tools he has. My drilling out is always very hit or miss. However a Helecoil set usually saves the day lol.. so far.
Maybe a very simple thing, but to me the "L" bracket was probably the game changer between a proper machine shop and a hobbyist.Being able to secure such a complexly shaped piece so well made every subsequent task more straightforward. Nice work :)
So satisfying to see the remainder of the threads coming out with the pliers. Great job Adam👍🏻
That drilling was a real ‘skill shot’, well done
When they're really stuck like that I generally apply heat. Get it really hot and then if it doesn't come out I'll allow it to cool shrinking the bolt. Add a little bit of penetrating oil then again try to turn it out while tapping on it. It can also be drilled and an easy out used. Sometimes a variety of methods have to be tried before something works.
Sir, speaking as a production maintenance mechanic who faces issues like this often, you are one damn good mechanic. That was a better outcome than I ever would have expected. I'm showing this to my boss today to help him understand why I ask for tools and clamps like those you used here as they are needed to do repairs like this. Bravo!
Snapped a headbolt on my 750 Norton years back,drilled out the stud with a undersize drill bit ,chased the threads with a tap,worked well without removing the engine from the bike,lucked out.
There is never only only way to do such things. And therefore you have to have a bag of ideas, because what worked last time, may not work this time. So you adjust to each situation to get the job done. Thumbs Up!
Ain't that the truth w/ stuck and broken bolts. Jeez, I've always tried to spin them w/ a sharp chisel first and go from there. Everyone always says "just drill it out". The hell w/ that. Drilling was my absolute last resort.
@@josephcitizen4195 Get yourself a set of left hand drill bits. They will quickly become a first choice in many extraction situations.
Nice work, properly done. Others chime in with their ideas of a better quicker way, but this video demonstrates the method most likely to succeed. If you care about the part and don't have the equipment, find somebody who does.
It’s a pleasure to watch a true craftsman at work. Excellent job and excellent video. I learned a lot. Thank you!
Anybody that says welding a nut to a broken off bolt ALWAYS works, is either very lucky or hasn’t done that procedure much! In 40+ years of dealing with this kind of stuff, I’d give it at best a 50% success rate. You gotta have a full bag of tricks in this kind of work!
Welding a nice thicker washer works better the washer ID must be bigger than the stud OD then weld a nut to the washer it’s not 100 percent but much better than just a nut which is difficult to weld into the internal corners compared to a washer.
I agree and am not convinced that method works like people think it does. Why would welding a nut to the bolt be any stronger than the original head that snapped off? I don't think it is the nut that does most of the work but the heat shock of the weld.
It works the best for armchair quarterbacks. In the actual shop environment, 50% effectiveness would be a stretch.
I bought one of those impact drivers to remove the cover bolts on a 65 Honda. It worked great. A few weeks later I found the one I forgot I had. Getting old sucks.
Ken, a lot of us is in the same age group. Now I just wish I could do the jobs i once did.
@ken now you have two, twice the chance of finding one the next time you're looking.:)
Mine has been missing about 20 years now - so you are saying in order for me to find it all I need to do is go buy a new one? Haha.
I love watching things like this. I don't know why!! Good job.
Well done sir. As someone who has also done this type of job more times than I can count, I would not change one thing about your presentation. Keep it simple, start easy, keep it slow and steady.
Those DR650 motors are the bomb! My buddy ran his past 100k miles with just routine maintenance. I bought my hammer impact in 1972 and it still works great today. Nice work Adam!
The good ol' Vessel impact driver - always looked the same - I've had mine for 45 years.
The bits are JIS ,by the way
Penetrant generally doesn't work where it is an alloy part. The aluminium oxide that forms in the thread is far less porous than iron rust.
On the screw that still had a head, I would have heated it with the TIG arc and let it cool ,then tried the vice grips again. The heat sometimes degrades the oxide that is seizing the fastener and allows it to break loose.
mine was the same just marketed by Imperial. Many happy years
I had that exact tool about about 40 years ago too. I didn't need it often but man it saved my butt many times.
@@boaterbil Had mine since the 1980's Worth it's weight in gold.
thanks for the wisdom.
I'm guessing they all come in the same blue case as well hah, mine did.
Putting the abom on her son your grandpa and dad would be very proud bud live this kinda stuff
If you have a motorcycle, you HAVE to have an impact driver.
@@jlinkels same here, identical, in 1976
With the full range of tools in high tensile steel !
With every motorcycle I have owned, FIRST THING MODIFIED, remove and hurl away every last engine cover Phillips-head bolt.
Immediately replaced with a set of grade-8 socket head cap screws.
A single allen key works WAY better, lasts longer, and takes up much less space in the on-board tool kit .
and JIS bits
@@jlinkels About 74 for me. Identical
My old French Guru, when I was serving My apprenticeship in HD Mechanics, taught Me to, with a brazing tip, heat the stub of the bolt to red hot, then allow it to cool naturally....the cooling rate of the dissimilar metals would cause them to microscopically separate, leaving a gap to allow penetrant to invade....the impacting would be an aid also to the penetrant, before using Your best means of extracting....be patient, use all the tools in Your toolbox, before applying brute force.....God bless Magoire "Max" Beillard, He served His apprenticeship in France during WW2, no parts available....You "fix" everything....
Usually when I had to do that I was laying on my back full of dirt in my eyes with no beer
I struggle with vertigo.
I learned a lot from this. Especially the importance of work holding. Your setup on the mill helps me see where I've been going wrong. Thanks sharing =)
To remove the thread leftovers: grab the end and twist the pliers around. Do not pull up. You learn something every day ;)
That's what I want to say too when watching the the video....but great job afterall
I have had one of those impact drivers for over 50 years now. I must admit, I had it for a number of years before I found out the head comes of it to show a 1/2" drive that fits 1/2" sockets, which makes things a mite easier at times. I still use it occasionally now, a year or so the last time.
Just about every home and shop cycle mechanic had to have them...I still have one from the 1970's.
@@Garth2011 I have one too. I bought it in the 70s for work on my Honda motorcycle........ I think it cost~$5!!
VERY handy!!
You would be so surprised how many do not preload before hitting it.
Patience is a virtue when doing these repairs always, good going.
I pour boiling water over the aluminium alloy. That expands it just a little and it barely expands the steel at all. If I have enough pot space space, I put the head into the boiling water until it reaches about one hundred degrees Celsius. Every little bit of loosening helps--
When I put in new bolts, I use Hylomar on the threads, and if I can not get any of that, Bitloos, which is a polymer product used to make sure the bits on soldering irons do not get jammed in the heater.
😮
In my cycle days (74-79) a hammer impact was a must...
I love these videos!
"Why did that shop charge over $100 to remove one simple bolt!?"
"This is why...You are paying not just for my time but also for what I learned over decades!"
LOL learnead over decade badly LOL
Good, clean, professional job. Bravo !!!
Excellent effort from an experienced engineer.
Thanks for taking the time to film this. A little tip for you, or anyone reading this. I’ve found that applying heat to any seized nut or bolt really helps when trying to unsieze them. Try it-see what you think.
if it was a steel bolt in a cast-iron engine block, I agree. when you have two different alloys like this heat will expand the bolt at a much different rate. Same for contraction in cooling. IMHO.
I’ve removed hundreds of bolts using left handed drill’s,
I’ve also used left handed taps then removed the bolt with a left handed bolt,
It’s worked 9 times out of 10.
In my experience over the years I found that applying heat modestly and allowing the area to cool down and heated up again quickly helps a lot in the process of moving bolt. Works for me.
I would also apply heat too long process
Like the approach "take time and don't get exited" . Great commentary and tips.
3:49 That is the exact same type of impact driver kit I bought from a flea market about 30 years ago.
I've taken many broken-off bolts & studs by welding a washer on first, then a nut on the washer, let cool,, then heat some, add candle wax. this high welding heat breaks the bind, comes out with a socket or box wrench. Welding & heat can do wonders.
Camera work is superb !
And the best part of the whole thing is that the owner of the part didn't try to use a hand drill to try to remove the bolt, leave it up to the professional with the rite equipment.
Another excellent job.
You have beautiful skills. Love to watch you work.
I know there is more than one way to do this. I would have tried welding onto that broken bolt with a wire feed. Heat is great at loosening oxidation and corrosion plus you get the heat expansion and subsequent shrinkage after cool down. Hit it with penetration oil and try to back it out in the morning.
Also, I like using a small impact drill. My little Dewalt battery powered impact drill is remarkably good at vibrating and backing bolts and screws out. As soon as I get something to move, I stop and put more penetration oil on it. Let it sit. Also, I reverse the direction on my impact driver. You know the show. Take your time. Vibration and heat are great. Aluminum and steel bolts are a drag.
Taking screws out of outboard boat engines has got to be one of the worst. I am a garage mechanic. Learned a lot of things the hard way. Love watching your show. Thanks, Terr
I worked on many Japanese motor cycles over many years, steel bolts into aluminum usually resulted in that problem. We got the job just after the owner had snapped the stud off. When we built new bikes up straight out of the packing crates we spent a little time taking the known troublesome studs out and coating them in anti seize copper grease, saved us hours of frustrating effort over the years during servicing etc.
Sharp drill bits are a thing of beauty!
Not worth buying crap drill bits, !
Rough crowd here! You did a good job. Thanks for the video.
I've been watching your videos for 8 years and this isn't the first time I've seen you unwind the remnants of the bolt thread out of a hole like that. It is so therapeutic! Thanks for another very enjoyable and educational video.
Nice save on that head, great content.
What an awesome machine shop. Awesome video. Very good job.
Lots of comments about patience, etc.. what comes to mind here is confidence and determination. This is the last stop for this bolt.
It has to come out, there is no where to bring it to “fix” it for you. Things will escalate until the end. Easiest first, if no, next step.
I think there’s a point in your work,profession whatever that is, that submitting to the problem or defeat does not enter your mind.
There will be a resolution, for sure. You have become competent at your work.
Adam, For a little more grip I put a little valve grinding compound on the end of the bit of the impact driver. Thanks for sharing..
Well done Adam, You were very persistent on that first bolt, and you made it come out, the two smaller screw with the impact driver, The right tool for that job, the last screw, you dead centred that one, and peeled that thread out, I have managed that a couple of times but you only need to be a small amount off centre and it makes it a lot harder, I've been there too.
Fantastic video! Nice to see someone on CZcams who actually knows what they're doing.
As a skilled labor man myself , I am always impressed by other skills that I know zero about. This vid had my attention the whole way thru - really great precision work my blue collar brother - thanks for sharing this one.
Hey Adam, nice work. Having the right tools is one thing, having tools in the hands of a master like you is on another level. Take care and thanks for the sharing your videos.
The Shake N Break is another excellent tool for removing stuck bolts and screws.
And flawless Italian shoes, and clean hands, and not a scratch in your Luminox wrist watch? You should have been a watch repair person:)
Is this a through or blind hole?
A job perfectly and patiently administered
Many years ago, an old neighbor was a fantastic Harley restorer. He showed me the trick to chemically dissolve steel bolts from aluminum cases and transmissions with alum. It’s my go to with aluminum (I only have hand tools, no mill or lathe). Sometimes not having to completely disassemble a machine is nice too. It’s a really good method for getting that broken tap or drill bit out of the hole
Heat the cylinder head to 100 degrees Celsius before trying to turn the nut--that sometimes releases the grip of the alloy on the steel, and it is not so hot that one can not handle it wearing gloves. An oven works fine.
JIS screw heads are NOT the same as Philips. I don't know if anyone needs to read this but I preach it whenever I can. Using a Philips driver on JIS will be frustrating because it will fit loosely and will cam/strip out. JIS drivers on the other hand fit Philips really, really well. That's why I try to get screw drivers in JIS whenever possible. Vessel is Japanese, so that impact driver is JIS and the bits were are a perfect fit.
JIS slots are more precise as philips screws.
My friend had a Snap-On T-shaped ratcheting tap handle much like yours. I borrowed it and really enjoyed the feel and solidness of it (made in Germany of course).
When the Snap-On truck came round to the shop the following week I bought one and was able to use it right away. I thought "What is this piece of rattling crap that I just got hosed premium money for?!"
It looked the same but was made in China now.
That little thing right there finished me with Snap-On.
I know they have certain tools that are still nice and built with quality but it all began to change about 20 years ago ...
buyer beware I suppose.
Nice job with the bolts. 😃👍
Love the way Adam explained why he did it the way he did, but people are still commenting 'Why didn't you use heat'? etc Watch and listen!
"He went to his local shops and there was no luck" more like the shops looked at it and said "oh hell no"
@@douganderson7002 for a shade tree or backyard mechanic yes but a machine shop that's a bit harder to pass on.
@Joe : Yeah, the Bike shop would rather him order a new cylinder head
In our area most mechanists do only work with companies and bikeshops just change parts and don't repair them. If you want someone to do something like in the video you need to know someone that is able to.
@@macroevolve LOL aint that the truth. makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up every time I hear someone say "oh yea thats toast, nothing you can do but buy a whole new unit......."
@@douganderson7002 Well Im not from the US but you sound kinda jealous youre not allowed to live in such a nice country like the US.
That exhaust flanges is actually Captive on the pipe when they build them. They don’t come off cause the far side is spread to fit over the muffler pipe
Not always the case. If the flange is sold separately then you know it actually does come off the header.
My long departed grandfather used to always say "you can do anything with the right tools" I'd add to that "and skill!" Great work!
Many years ago a mechanic told me to use a impact drive. A little cheap tool used for this purpose. You push it in and it’s spring loaded. Hit it with a hammer and the spring will turn and it removes the screw or bolt. This is specially made for aluminum parts to heated bolts. The tool cost about 10-15$.
and what do you think he used
I learn from every video you post. Sometimes, I just learn that I need to be patient and not break out a chainsaw to trim a rose bush. Love the videos brother !
NOW I understand wy all my attempts to do similar have justcresulted in butchering the head. Great tools!
Absolutely loved this, couldn't stop watching. Great work.
Another phenomenal video. An excellent example of patience and persistence along with not getting mad and losing one's head succeeding. I have been a long time fan and quite frankly this video is a perfect example of why. Me and a friend are getting ready to open a small shop. We have some basic equipment a lathe, mill, sandblasting cabinet and such. We have all of the components for a cnc table outside of some wiring and such which I'm going to be getting soon. But we're going to try to make a run at it. Hopefully we can go somewhere with it that way we can do better for our families. I recently lost my wife and need to find a way to work in the shop at the house so I can be here for my kids. I'm not sure if my partner has seen any of your videos but I'm actually getting ready to send him some links and that way he can watch some of your videos as well. Anyways thank you for all the excellent information you put out
Video very well done with just enough detail and the various methods you use!!!
Steel bolt in aluminum; heat is your friend. At minimum a bit of boiling water helps a bunch.
@Der Traubengott Boiling water can never be too hot.
Good for you. Where’s your video showing it? I’m sure your ZERO subscribers would love to watch. We’ll wait.
It's always nice to have the right tools and experience to do this !
As a retired motorcycle technician and machinist from 1979 to 2005 I enjoyed watching this and I wish we had that adjustable angle tool. We had to adjust the mill table and head to achieve what you did in this video. Many times we were able to dave the threads and many times we had to install a helicoil or time sert to give it new threads. I prefer the time sert because it was solid unlike a helicoil would come out when removing the bolt later on. About the only thing I miss is doing some of the machining work.
I still have my vessel impact driver i got when i was 11 now 62 when you need it you need it