SNS 304 Part 1: Removing Broken Bolts, New Baldor Buffer
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2020
- This week we have a double header. In part one I show the new Baldor buffer we purchased for the shop. Afterwards we get busy on a job removing broken bolts, and one broken tap. Follow up with part 2 as I dive into the Baldor for improvements, and we share some new shop organization tools.
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Abom Adventures / @abomadventures - Věda a technologie
I just spotted the sticker on your green cabinet: "Real Fabricators Break Chinese Tools". Love it!
I did as well, and looked up the source. It comes from Burr King. They also sell a T-shirt.
Yea I got that from Burr King at Fabtech 👍🏻
@@Abom79, I went to their website and discovered they are giving them away free. Just send them a self addressed, stamped envelope. Heading to the mail box Monday morning. BTW, thanks for the great content.
All the old quality made tools are now made outside the USA 😞
Us fake fabricators have no problem breaking Chinese tools either lmao
I am old and in bad health. I used to work with steel. More of a jack of all trades, definitely not a machinist. I have a little mini lathe next to my desk now and make dies for swaging bullets. Just wanted to say...dude you are an absolute joy to watch. Thank you for sharing your skill and expertise. Back in the old days people wouldn't want to let anyone know their secrets. They made a person serve an apprentice ship if they wanted to learn. Thanks to generous people like you the secrets are available to everyone now. I'm sure you dad and granddad remember the days when a skilled tradesman wouldn't even let a stranger watch them work for worry that someone would steal their "tricks".
Washing taps and bolts out of stainless is a trick that seemed like literal black magic to me a long time ago. When I was working at a place named Avtec in the late 90's to early 2000's, I was in the shop working on a personal project. I was tapping the end of a piece of 304 stainless barstock in the lathe and snapped the tap off. Well I just gave up and got pissed b/c I had no more material and no idea how to get it out. One of the welders came over and asked me what was wrong and I told him. He said "Bring that over to the cutting table." I told him "This is stainless, what is a cutting torch going to do?!" He said "Do you want help or do you want to sit and be pissed?" He blasted that tap out in one shot of the oxygen lever and I was amazed and couldn't understand how or why that worked.
He told me:
Cutting with oxy/fuel works not by the flame melting through the metal, the flame is just to get the metal melted. The oxygen boost then ignites the carbon in the steel causing it to burn and then blast through the rest of the metal. Thats why oxy/fuel cutting doesn't work on stainless, only metals with carbon in them. So, you use the fact that the tap is very very high carbon and that stainless will be left relatively untouched by the oxygen to "wash" the carbon steel out of the stainless with the oxygen. Once you do it enough, you can get very very good at it and use it very strategically.
I've never seen it use to that affect, in a precision way, until just now, in this video. Very nice!!!!
Complete and literal black magic to me at the time and it still amazes to to this day!!!
Thanks for that explantion
Absolutely, although I appreciate the high tech explanation of what’s going on. I was watching at the carbon steel was being washed out, but also the tube was quickly heating up. I was Agra’s I was going to Melt right through it! It works pretty slick though 👍🏻
It's actually the iron that is burning:
From: sa.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/Expert-Advice/tech-tips/theory-of-oxy-fuel-gas-cutting.aspx
"As the oxygen chemically combines with the iron exothermically (exothermic reaction), ... [it] starts a rapid oxidation of the steel through the depth of the cut. A tremendous amount of heat is liberated when the high purity oxygen unites with the steel during this reaction."
From the same site:
"The various alloy elements found in steel affect the ability of the oxygen to cut the metal.... elements such as chromium, nickel, molybdenum, and carbon generally reduce the ability of oxygen to sever the material ..."
Note two things: 1) chromium and nickle, usually present in significant quantities in SS, both limit the burning of the SS. 2) High carbon levels actually make it harder to flame cut steel, not easier.
From a second source:
"www.esabna.com/literature/gas%20apparatus/miscellaneous/oxy-fuel_cutting_quality_0558006464.pdf"
"Only metals whose oxides have a lower melting point than the base metal itself can be cut with
this process. Otherwise as soon as the metal oxidizes it terminates the oxidation by forming a
protective crust."
I suspect -- but I couldn't confirm with a quick Google search -- that the chromium and nickle in SS form high melting point oxides that prevent the iron in the SS from burning easily.
I really appreciate how you honor your father and grandfather. It is very apparent that they had a big impact on your life. The tenacity that you show in overcoming hard tasks is one of your best traits. Keep on making chips, I really enjoy your content.
"when it burns like that it's locktite" those are the nuggets of experience you share with us that I love
Possibly loctite, it could also be any number of other things. Dried out lube burns like that too.
Reminds me of the ol' comedy shop sign: "Hourly rates $50 standard, $75 if you watch, $100 if you comment, $150 if you tried to fix it first and couldn't"
I have one of those signs in my shop. It’s in plain sight. I love the looks and comments it gets.
More than once, when I was in the Pipefitters union, I had to repair handyman screwups. Dangerous when working on natural gas lines. Once found a water heater installed by hubby; every pipe joint leaking. Wife told me to take my time; wanted to show her hubby that he didn't know everything! Cost him a lot more than hiring a professional. Thanks
What I have success with on those Blue Point easy outs is use two wrenches on the deep driver nut opposed to each other then the torque doesn't push the easy out to one side...works for me.
You know you effed up when Adam whistles at your effort.
I really like this old box from your grand dad, the patina on it really tells that it has a story and even more a family story. Good job on those broken screws. It reminds me that this morning I broke off a torx head screw on my diff flange. So now I have to remove the whole rear end, grind it so I can remove the axleshafts, weld something to it, and work them all loose. It never ends, but where would be the fun otherwise I guess :D
Mr Booth - thank you for keeping your language/videos clean. It is refreshing to say the least - and it shows, among other things, you have a large vocabulary, and it makes your videos family-friendly. THANK YOU for that!
Great Job as usual! Adam, I have been watching you for many years and I have to say I am disappointed in your comment about the owner trying to get the bolt out himself. I am a regular home owner just like this guy probably is. I WOULDN'T be a home owner if every time something broke I paid a professional to fix it. He gave it a try! Now he hopefully knows his limitations or he will learn by his mistakes. The American farmer, who I admire, knows how to do everything. He learns to do most things because he has to. (of course with in limits) Never criticize a man willing to try! That's what you are there for, to pull us out of the whole. Just as a side note: It's hard to find a professional willing to do small work like this. Years ago they would do this stuff for free.
I did a similar "favor" for a neighbor. 5 broken bolts in a backyard fountain. I had no intention of charging him, but he insisted that he wanted to pay me "for my time". when I suggested $75 seemed fair, he laughed and told me that had he known that, he would have drilled them out and replaced them with new inserts himself.
I never wanted his money, and $75 hardly covered my time. but I did expect some respect at a minimum.
A tip I was shown a long time ago by one of my mentors when I was starting out as a mechanic. When using the Blue Point style extracors you used use 2 wrenches 90 degrees apart on the hex like a t handle that way you can push on one and pull the other it gives more even pressure and you won't have to fight the extractor to stay straight. Of course thus tip only applies when you have enough room for 2 wrenches some applications you won't have the room. I'll have to go through the 2 sets i have and see if I need any replacement pieces and put them on my next KBC order Thank You for the information that they carry them .
I use a similar method but the wrenches are 180° apart
@@giannirocco9099 You cant put two spanners at 180 deg on a nut
There's something about broken tap/bolt extractions that I love, even though we all know how you feel about them. Thanks for sharing this project!
I love the sticker on the green cabinet that says " CANCER SUCKS"!! I'm a stage 4 Colon Cancer patient and I can honestly say that CANCER SUCKS!!!!!
Randy Daye Could not agree more with you Randy. I sincerely and genuinely, hope and pray that we can hear you someday say you’re a cancer survivor. Godspeed on your fight with colon cancer. You’ll be in my prayers.
Whipple
Wise choice on going with the slower speed for the wire wheels. I've over spun them several times before and when you're done, you'll feel like you've been in a fight with a porcupine.
If those rails and flanges are # 304/316 stainless steel, and the broken bolts are steel, like the broken tap is, just leave the ends immersed overnight in neat nitric acid. All the carbon steel will be dissolved away by the next morning. Just do it in a well ventilated area outside. Plus the added benefit is you won’t have the overheated ends to re-polish. I have often used nitric acid to dissolve HSS taps broken off in deep holes in stainless steel.
Did you ever work in the electroplating industry? We used to do that quite often for customers or anodise aluminium parts to get out broken drills or taps.
To prevent the easy out from tilting, use 2 wrenches 180 degrees apart.
That is exactly what I was going to post. I've used that style extractor quite a bit.
You are much less likely to snap the extractor using two wrenches, especially with the smaller sizes. If you look at the Rigid pieces, you can see they have two separate sets of wrench flats on the nut with a groove between them.Thank you, Adam, for letting us know that KBC sells the Rigid extractors individually as it took me a few snapped posts before I figured out the two wrench method, I had been looking for them unsuccessfully and the Chinese knock-offs are junk.
Is it possible to use tap wrench altough it is for square tools ?
@@karirautio it wouldn't really be the right tool. The extractor that gets tapped into the hole is a splined hex shape.
Mr Booth - you are a persistent man: never say never, and never give up. Great qualities in a person - I admire that.
Baldor grinders and buffers are ABSOLUTELY one of the most beautiful and useful tools you can buy. Made in America and top quality. You will hand it down for generations, serious machinists only please.
Abom, your Dad’s grinder might be repairable, could be a capacitor in the bottom mount that’s blown, so you just need to replace it.
That's some serious skills there, blowing out a broken tap. They don't teach this stuff in high school.
I was an auto technician for over 20 years and used the same parallel sided extractor set (and the drill guides are priceless!!). broken bolts were my side hustle for making extra money. other techs didn't want to fix their own bolts, so I did with mostly that set and access to an oxy/acetylene rig. I got paid well for my effort. I don't work on cars anymore, but I was able to extract every bolt that I tried to.
I always learn something when I watch your show :-). Thanks for educating us!
"A tap broken off ... Isn't that nice." lol, I love it. One of my most hated things. I've decided the best solution to this problem is to never break a tap off in something. Saves a hell of a lot of time and effort. It will make you a hell of a lot more careful doing a few extractions. I must admire Adam with his calm demeanor. If this was my video nearly half of it would be swearing and getting pissed.
Great video and nice save of those pool rails. One word of warning when using stainless steel bolts, it’s worth using never seize instead of loctite because if stainless steel fittings are tightened up together real hard the stainless has a bad habitat of gauling or pulling the threads and they will never come loose. My sons install stainless fittings to buildings and they bring home tons of scrap for me to pull apart for scrapping. I have had a lot of the bolts bind up and I have to resort to the grinder as there is no saving them. The threads are totally stuffed. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺
I admire your patience as well as your skills.
Don't toss your old man's grinder/buffer, it's most likely easily repairable. It probably stopped running because the start/run capacitor(s) failed. If it's that green one you use in your videos for grinding tool bits, it looks like this is what the case is. The last several videos I've seen you using it, the motor starts up really slowly, which can be an indication of a failed start/run capacitor. A motor can run quite awhile on a bad capacitor, but once it gets bad enough, the motor won't start anymore because the magnetic fields aren't offset to get that tumbling motion started.
The capacitor for the motor is usually hidden inside the base under the motor and behind the switch, so some disassembly is required to get at it. You may want to replace the switch as well because the contacts arc over time and can become resistive enough to cause run problems as well.
thumbs up if you heard "Tappy Tap Tap" in your head at 18:38 lmao
Adam, Great work. I sold Snap-on Tools for 15 years. The extractors are the best, they were sold under Blue Point name brand, but were made by Ridged tool co. Thanks for the channel, You should be a teacher in a Vo-tech school . But getting paid lot's of money. Les.
Thanks Leslie 👍🏻
I always enjoy feeling your enthusiasm and joy when you get a new piece of equipment, whether new or used. I'm a retired electrical engineer but your channel makes me wish I would have taken more mechanical courses.
You have a lot of experience and, as usual, its a pleasure to watch a pro in action regardless of the job as you can tap into your vast wealth of knowledge.
Adam next time you use the Ridged easy outs use two wrenches 90* apart like a tap wrench the easy out won’t twist over and the bolt will come out faster.
That's what I was thinking-!!
That’s how I extract, the same way I tap.
Im very impressed with you're surgical use of the gas axe, top work all round!
Hi Adam, One of the things I love about your channel is how when something works, like removing the bolt, you're as excited as a little kid after his first pony ride. Love it. Be well & Best regards, Gottfried
Adam, I've always liked how you say "We got it done" or "we're going to do this or that". Its like us viewers are part of the job. Nice touch.
That’s the kind of guy Adam is: takes on a job he doesn’t want or need to do just because he wants to help someone out.
Z06Doc agreed. It’s also a sharpening of ones skills. Great guy indeed
Adam is a top bloke, but let's not forget, it also makes great YT content :)
I burned my forearms twice just watching you.
Having the tools in one thing. Having the knowledge is another. Having patience is the most important part!
That was a masterful display of skills fixing those broken bolts. I wasn't so sure it was going to happen! NICE work.
I work on computers for a living. I can’t count the times I’ve had a customer turn a twenty minute job into a 8 hour job. However, I just call it job security.
Am i the only one whos thinking to use soft jaws on the vise and two wrenches to keep the balance?
Out of all your videos, I like these repairs of broken off bolts or studs in stuff the best. Or even the really bad ones that need over bored and a thread incert installed. You have shown me a few tricks. And your point about "STOP, Before you make it worse" And take it to someone that has the proper skills and tools to fix it right. Because in the long run it will probably be cheaper. Thanks for the great content and keep showing us how easy things can be fixed if you just slow down and do it the right way, With the right tools.
That's one of the great things about being in a generational family business. You are holding on to some relics in damn good condition that few know about or remember.
“Hey man” jobs lol! Gotta love it! Ever since they put the road through in front of my personal “not for hire” shop, I get this at least once a week. They see my over there tinkering with whatever and stop. Can you weld this, can you powdercoat this, on and on. Yep I can, for $200hr. I’m not here to rip anyone off and am happy to help people out, but this equipment isn’t cheap and if I’m going to put wear and tear on my personal equipment you better believe I’m going to charge a premium and you should too.
Years ago when I was doing leather work, I did the same thing. Backfired once when I quoted a high price for a custom purse; next day I had half of the $ in PayPal! Was a challenge!
John Boyd. Ya it is a challenge knowing what to charge when you don’t do it everyday and really have no idea what the market is. The way I look at it is, I have millions of dollars in tools and they can either pay what I feel it’s worth to use them or they can go buy what they need themselves. Certainly not trying to be a dick (which most people think because they expect a “buddy” price because I’m not an actual business) and don’t just try and bend anyone over, but I am certainly going to make it worth the wear and tear on my tools.
I can't be the only one that thought that the Baldor Buffer was going to tackle the heat discoloration.
Extraction is always very pleasing! This is such a wholesome channel.
I’ll rephrase that. Extraction is always very satisfying!
Great job Adam. Always hate fixing something others tried and made bigger problem than if they just took it to shop and get done right from get go
Awesome buffer. I have the 333B. 👍👊
RetroWeld A lil bigger, ofcourse. Otherwise the comment never existed, LOL
so pleased to see you using the best type of stud exractor and not those useless LH taper things (Y)
23 times I jumped thinking he was going to burn the hell out of his arm! LOL
In the mid 90's I worked for an electric motor shop/ Baldor distributor. When the shop closed in '97 I bought the pedestal grinder we used every day. I use it several times a week and it runs like a champ. Never had a problem with it.
Best bolt extractors made!!!
Buff em up with the new Baldor.
Anyone who does repairs will encounter broken bolts. Thanks Abom79 for the very informative video which shows different approaches to the problem, performed by someone with a lot of experience!
After watching this side of youtube for a while I have come to a realization and that is that there three main personalities that I watch and they all fill a specific persona.
Abom79: Caring older brother that teaches you step by step and is great at explaining stuff.
AvE: Your favorite uncle that would come home with all kinda of cool stuff, a bit on the cranky side but still fun to be around.(9/10 times would start a conversation with ' don't tell your mom but check this out....'
ToT: The eternal dad.
Amen.
Add those to your bag of extractions! I need a neighbor/buddy like you! I'd even buy the beer/steaks/materials/etc. Let me know when you want to move to WV lol
Steaks And Prime Ribeyes are currency around here
What you said about customers trying to drill bolts out, reminded me of a couple that are customers of mine. A couple months ago they came to me with a hole that they had drilled, through a water jacket in their engine block, while trying to drill a broken exhaust manifold bolt out. Wanna know the best part? Guess what they told me on the phone... “just a quick weld repair 15 minutes or less”.. I chuckled, as I’ve probably heard this a thousand times at this point. They proceeded to tell me how bad they needed it fixed (you know the usual “I’ve been without it for a week but for some reason can’t live without it for another minute” “it needs to be done NOW”) so I said bring it down I’ll take a look, NO PROMISES tho. Boy did I still regret even that.. what was previously a M8-1.25 tapped hole, about 32mm deep, with a broken bolt in it. Was now about a 5/8”-3/4” hole (it was wallerd right out) 2.5” deep before going through a water jacket... needless to say they got the broken bolt out, just took a small portion of the block with it... I tried my damndest not to laugh. Trying to be somewhat respectful remembering these folks actually thought that this was fixable, & with no problem at that. Probably also needless to say they weren’t very happy when I told them there was absolutely nothing I or likely anyone else could do.. then even more unhappy when I told them I would have been able to fix it no problem If they just hadn’t touched it. Folks always love that part.
Great story, thanks for the share! 👍🏻 I’ve seen my share of problems like that. The best is when they say “take ya 10 minutes tops!!” 🤦🏼♂️
Absolutely! Oh yeah gotta love it
Love your work Abom. Be careful when heating stainless that hot that you don’t get carbide precipitation (it’s chromium-rich) so it may get rust marks in the future. Hope this helps everyone. Peace and all the best.
Great point on the welding only working sometimes. Usually you only hear about the thing someone tried that worked, not the five things that didn’t.
this is the type of service that takes away anybody's patience
Seized / sheared bolts difficult to get out? Welcome to the wonderful world of auto mechanics!
I'm sure these kinds of jobs must be a pain in the ass, but there is just something to them!! I never get tired of watching them, thanks for sharing Adam and take care!!!
Professional armchair quarterback here: try flipping your wrench over so the offset from the box end faces towards the fastener you are removing when you have the clearance to do so. It transmits force inline with the opposing friction and prevents the extractor from kicking over, I used to do something similar with flex head ratchets at my last job so that I didn't have to worry about the socket jumping off. Glad to see an extremely experienced machinist who can still explain what they are doing in a way anyone can understand, I'm looking forward to SNS1000.
Buffy the Tarnish Slayer
Stainless steel treads and bolts is always a pain in the ass
Willem Streutgers
Yep 99% forget the lube to prevent galling
I really enjoy watching your work. I especially appreciate the info you give on your tools and materials.
Thanx Adam. Gotta love the heat! The torch set is my savior at work. That tool never leaves my side.
Project Farm needs to test more extractors!
I have a set identical to that but in a red plastic case from Snap-On. They are excellent.
Lovely job! I love it when people repair stuff instead of throwing it away.
I have the same extractor set, and i always hit it with the hammer when unscrewing at the same time, helps a lot, impacts shift the threads slightmy enough to unscrew. And nice video as always !
Send the old machine that gave up the ghost to one of those Rebuilt/Renovation youtuber maybe ?
Hello Adam. Your Grandfather's screw extractor set is cool. would you consider buffing the case up all nice?
Love the old Grandpa tools. The oldies are usually goodies and the family history just makes them special.
Great you could replace a missing piece as well.
Don’t forget to have kids :)
It's awesome that you're still using your grandpa tools
Those straight splined extractors are the ONLY type to use!!!!!
RIDGID 35585
Normally you would hand the fixed items back cleaned and showing no signs of your magic on them. Did you leave the heat marks as a sign of defiance?
Thanks for sharing 👍
Gould and Eberhardt shirt ....I grew up in Irvington NJ and lived there until 1962. Many industrial type companies in Newark and Irvington and other towns in the area. My father worked for Thomas A Edison Industries, West Orange. I love your videos, you’re a very talented machinist. !
You don't give-up. That's for sure. I wouldn't want you after me. Thank you! Watching you work is a privilege.
Ill click on any video that includes removing broken bolts :)
Honest question. Were you not concerned with scratches from the vise?
Adam, you Sir are a fine person as well as a master machinist. Your videos are entertaining and educational, keep ‘em coming.
Man after my own heart. Doesn't give up and gets the job done! Awesome
please use copper or even brass bolts! to often stainley and stainley welds together :)
Banke Andersen For a hand railing!? Those will break right off. Liability. No, stainless just with a good amount of anti seize.
...that is known to "seizing"!!
@@susanbarbier5053 ...dissimilar metals in the presence of water- ever heard of bi-metallic corrosion?!!
Surprised you didn't use that brand new Baldor to polish that 316ss tube back to new after heating...
No guards. You’re going to drive the safety Sally’s crazy. Good work.
when he said "and get these things back outta my shop" at 10:12 I LOLed. Been there!
I gotta ask: isn't it more economical to buy new pool rail tubes rather than have a machinist spend their time trying to repair them? Obviously I have no clue as to how much the material costs or how much a good machinist charges. Thanks Adam and others
I believe he charges $70 an hour. I couldn't find those exact rails but i would estimate they are $100 each. If they are not made anymore or can't locate new ones it could be why they had them repaired
Adam Snap-On _still_ sells this set with the *same* number! *And* the inside of the (now plastic) lid still has the molded in instructions. shop.snapon.com/product/Combination-Extractor-Sets/19-pc-Extractor-Set-(Blue-Point)/E1020
I have that set too.. bought in the late 70's..
Or, if you're not dead-set on the Snap-on name, you can get the Ridgid Model 10 set (catalog #35585) in an otherwise identical case for 2/3 the price.
I have the same Snap-on Blue Point set bought in the 70’s. If you look at the driver nuts with a magnifying glass, you’ll see that they were made by Rigid.
I marvel at your patience and knowledge absolutely awesome!!
And thanks for such a awesome show.
I have been doing this type of work for years and I know how you feel when something seems almost impossible, well done!
Heating up stainless red hot makes it not stainless anymore. You probably ruined those rails.
Not to mention knurl marks from vise where your hands ride.
Samuel Taylor ....This is a good point. The surfaces can and should be chemically passivated before reinstallation. The chlorine in pool water will accelerate corrosion in a short amount of time if the surfaces are left as is.
Yep, those are junk now. Will corrode in the heat affected zone real quick.
Stainless steel bolts in a stainless threaded hole? Is a recipe for cold welding.
Sixta16 I learned that the hard way
Not if you slobber them in copper based antiseize.
Excellent! I like that you showed the extractor set and all the parts and pieces that make work. Three times on the welding the washer to the bolt shows a lot of patience.
Very satisfying seeing the last bolt finally give up. Nice work.
If you use two wrenches on the extractor nut, you form a "T" and the extractor stays straighter.
THAT is a good bit of advise...probably why they are the exact length to fit two wrenches.
.......WHAT MAKES THESE VIDS ESPECIALLY NICE.... NO DAMNABLE MUSIC !!!
I heard John Cage's 4′33″ in a continual loop.
I love when client tries to fix driveshaft himself and upon failure he brings it to my workshop.Sometimes it makes 20 minutes job a whole afternoon fun run.
Adam, I enjoy your videos, what you do is very similar to what I do in my job daily. I have been a maintenance machinist for 13 1/2 years. I repair and fab parts that you can't just call someone up and order a new one.I don't feel I would like a "production" machinist job. If I have to make more than 10 pieces of something I get frustrated. Those bolt extractors do work well. The machinist that trained me (40 years experience), used to take dull and chipped taps and hand grind a square taper on them and use them for bolt extractors. To this day I haven't found anything that works better. Keep the great videos coming. Stay safe.
I feel that taps would be too brittle to rely on using them for bolt extractors, not saying they don’t work.
@@Abom79 Next time you chip a tap, grind one down to a taper square and try it. You will be surprised. I work with 20 millwrights, I can't keep them in my box, they take them all the time.