Choosing a Canoe - why SMALLER is better
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Why I chose an 11.5 Foot Fibreglass canoe for Minimalist Camping and Fishing.
When choosing a Canoe we tend to go for the larger option, its the same with boats and 4 Wheel Drivers - Bigger is Better
But that’s not allays the case - a minimalist approach can be liberating. When I researched the options, 99% of users had 14 to 16 foot canoes which were mostly empty or with large air bags front and back.
I wanted a Canoe that was easy to handle both in and out of the water, but, wasn’t that light that it wouldn’t take the wear and tear from constant use. It needed carrying capacity, but only for a small camp setup.
What I found was that 11.5 Feet was the perfect size, let me show you.
Below are links to the article I refer to and to The One Tree Canoe Company who made my canoe.
stuffoholics.com/kevlar-canoe...
www.onetreecanoe.com
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts on smaller canoes. I have paddled every type of canoe, shot moose from a cedar/canvas to dragging an aluminum for miles through the forest! I currently have 3 canoes, all very different and all have specific applications. The Canadian Shield is the hardest rock in the world and I can say with confidence Kevlar, carbon fibre, innnegra are all abrasion resistant and handles bumps and scapes. The down side to small canoe is they are very slow moving as they have a lot of draft and once loaded you increase the draft and they then become tippy. It is always a joy when you find what works for you, keep an open mind to other types of canoes and love where they take you👍
Take are out there✌️
Hey thanks for watching. I agree, I can see myself with probably a 14-15 foot light Canoe for longer trips and for a passenger. Cheers Paul
A couple of things that wasn't mentioned was that kevlar as a material comes in many layups and builds. Ultralight layups with thinner walls to minimize weight where the canoe will not likely take hits. Other layups are reinforced similar to fibreglass boats without the ultralight selective re-enforcement method can be very robust and be paddled down rapids regularly even in shallower and rocky conditions.
Length in a canoe also increases speed and efficiency quite substantially. A 16 foot canoe can easily cruise at 5+km/h even with substantial rocker whereas shorter canoes are extremely inefficient and require a lot more effort to keep on track. Traditional style boats of 14-15 foot can easily traverse rapids even when paddled solo and allow for more glide when needing to push into eddies. Short boats are a great option for anyone storing their canoe in an apartment, purely looking for maneuverability above all else or minimizing overall material used to make the canoe as light as humanly possible. High grade whitewater open canoes are often below 10' to allow maximum control when being pushed through rapids.
Float tanks and other methods of built in flotation are often also not enough to be able to keep a boat floating when in white water. Airbags and additional flotation is often added in high grade white water to keep the boat floating above the water to minimize the surface area on the canoe if it were to go side on to a rock. If the canoe is deeper in the water it is likely to "wrap" and fold over rocks regardless of the material. Airbags and anything to add flotation should really be used in any rapids over grade 2 as good practice really and are even used in whitewater kayaks for the same reason.
It is certainly great to see someone who enjoys the sport of canoeing and is exploring such awesome locations as Kangaroo Valley and bringing attention to it as a sport. There is a huge range of strokes, boat designs, paddle designs and paddling applications to these boats and we can only hope that more people show interest and join this part of the Australian paddling community.
Hi Dan, thank you for taking the time to discuss these relevant points. I will make sure my viewers are aware of this as there is a lot of information here that many people simply aren't aware of. I certainly do enjoy the canoeing as a means of exploration and one of my desires is to expand our community through both showing viewers and sharing information on how to get into it themselves. Cheers Paul
Here in my part of Canada we would regard a 16 footer as an average length boat or even a bit on the short side. Depends on what you want to do. You can get a 16’ Royalex boat and bash about in rocky rapids, or get a longer narrower glass or carbon fibre boat and make good speed in open water. My group prefers the latter so I have a 16.5’ Clipper Tripper S that is set up for both tandem and solo paddling. Other friends of mine have 17’ or longer boats. When you’re trying to get across 5 km of open lake you appreciate the stiffer construction and long length. The Royalex boats’ flexible bottoms are great for taking abuse but cause the boat to oil can and slow it down.
Thanks for the comment Neil. Quick questions what is your average speed when soloing in your 16.5? And how is it on a windy day when empty and soloing? Regards Paul
@@Getgowin, I honestly have no idea on speeds. Most of the time we're wilderness tripping on the Churchill river system, so we more think about how many km we can put in a day which is hugely variable depending on portages. I wouldn't recommend it for windy solo work unless you were a better paddler than I. Tandem for tripping, solo for putzing around on a calm day. Clipper make nice boats though, Canadian company that is very popular around here.
Thanks Neil, I cruise at around 4.5 km/h and the wind has a lot less effect on my boat compared to my friends who have 14 footers. You guys are spoilt for choice. We only have one manufacturer and import the rest. Latest boat to hit our shores are the Swift Canoes, beautiful boats.
This video caught my eye right away ... I also paddle a smaller canoe, a Nova Craft Trapper 12 (I'm Canadian, and was very happy to buy a quality boat made right here close to home). I do have a larger canoe for car trips or when I've got a companion in the boat, but this is my back country rig, and is used for a ton of fishing excursions as well (also have a kayak which I fish out of). I love the manoeuvrability of the small boat, how easy it is to carry, and that a robust fibreglas shell is just 40 pounds. On my backcountry trips it's easy to carry both my pack and canoe so I can single carry virtually all portages -- unless the terrain is very rugged. Most of my trips are solo, and I'm not an experienced whitewater canoeist so I don't run anything more than swifts or a Class 1, which is not difficult even in this boat. BTW ... I laughed really hard when I saw the bottom of your boat ... mine looks exactly the same lol. Very much enjoy your videos, keep up the great work!
Hi Don, great to see another small canoe advocate! You are spoilt for choice in Canada and the Nova Craft is an excellent boat. I will as some point get a larger boat for the same reasons you mentioned, mainly to take another person with me. Thanks for watching my video and the great feedback. Regards Paul
Totally agree about the "spoilt for choice", we are very fortunate to have such a great selection of really nice boats in our backyard here in Canada ... and N. America as a whole... and I can't imagine how much it costs to get those boats imported into Australia. @@Getgowin
@donwilcox-outdoorsmore5829 yeh they hit the ground at $5,900 Aus for a Swift Prospecter 15. Our exchange rate is on par with Canadian dollar.
Good to hear. I ordered one for all the reasons you mention above. I am also Canadian, btw, and will be using mine in the back country as soon as the ice melts off the lakes!
Very exciting, hopefully the wait is not too long
Solo canoes are the way to go. They don't call double seaters divorce boats for nothing. I got an Old Town solo Pack off craigslist for $150 and love it. Now I have my eye on a Next.
Hahaha, never heard of them being referred to as a divorce boat, but I can understand why. Old Town is a nice boat, very similar to mine. Thanks for watching, cheers Paul
The Pack for $150 was a steal. I have always wanted to have one of those. Still I think the best length for a solo canoe is 14'. I paddled a Next and it was OK but really a hybrid and more of an open kayak in my opinion. I prefer a real canoe with a single bladed paddle and double if I want to in open water into the wind. A longer boat will track better (less waddling) and have much better load capacity if you want to take gear or a dog. I paddled all the smaller boats (the worst being the OT 11.9) and finally settled on two 14' boats. The Wenonah Vagabond for shorter, lighter trips and a hard to find Mowhawk Challenger 14' for solo trekking trips where I need to load up gear. It is great and both track much better than anything shorter. Both are Royalex like your Pack.
I do like the idea of a canoe that tracks better, did you notice much difference in windy conditions? Both the Wenonah and Mohawk are great options, how do you find the Royalex? Mine is fibreglass as I wanted to be able to repair it in the field.
@@ArfOtis great advice...I'd like to try the Next before buying one and am always open other solo canoes. I'll look into the 14' footers.
I'm taking my wife out on our canoe this afternoon. If I don't give her a paddle to use that eliminates 99% chance of arguments. She'll just be along for the sightseeing.
Yes I agree, I sold my 16 ft Kevlar and bought a 12 ft Old Town and love it. Presently building a 12 ft cedar strip solo. I'm from Canada so have lots of rivers and lakes to paddle.......John
Thanks John. Love Cedar Strip Canoes, they look to good to use! Regards Paul
I too have a smaller OT Pack Canoe - 12ft - for all the reasons you discussed. Mine is made of Royalex 33lbs and is also a perfect fishing platform for me. It's bombproof!!!
Hi Jim, great to have another small boat paddler. I have heard great things about the toughness of Royalex versus the weight. Looks like a great option. Thanks for watching, regards Paul
Only an option if you're willing to do a tough search for a fairly rare boat (OT pack) these days (@@Getgowin
There is manufacturer who has formulated a material called T-Formex that is light weight & tough as nails. They make Esquif canoes, but also sells the material to other makers. It replaced the Royalex that was discontinued. The guy mortgaged everything to make the new material. He is in Quebec. I have a 12 footer that weighs 36 lbs (16+kgs).
Hi Gordon, sounds interesting we’re lucky to have so many options. Thanks for watching.
My Wenonah 15ft/4.5m prospector canoe is made of T-Formex and weighs 60lb/27kg. I still can have another paddler along but I have no problem managing on my own and I can bash about on river rocks with no worries. Multi day trips with portages would be taxing but doable solo; I have no plans for this though.
I own an Esquif Adirondack 12-footer solo boat. Built of T-Formex, it's bombproof, much lighter (about 40 lbs), and more dimensionally stable than a comparable polyethylene (Tupperware) craft. Easy to lift on a car's roof-rack by myself, a consideration for an old geezer who's 81 years old. And yes, I tether it front and rear as well as strapping it to the rack for transport. Better safe than sorry. It's suited for either a double-bladed kayak paddle or canoe paddle, But I prefer the latter. The Colorado River runs 3/8 mile from my house, but my river-running days are over. The Adirondack serves mainly as a platform for more contemplative activities like fishing and photography.
Great video! You make some great points. I'm in the market for a smaller canoe. My wife and I with my 2 small kids use a large 16' canoe. Works great for us but is a beast to load and unload! Thank you again!
Thanks for the kind words and for watching. Cheers Paul
My 17' Swift in kevlar fusion has run loads of class 2 rapids and banged into loads of rocks, durability has never been a concern. Looks like you found a canoe that is perfect for you but I wouldn't disregard the huge range of shapes, sizes and materials. Really big or really short canoes are specialists while boats between 17'-15' can do it all
17' wow that's a lot of canoe! I don't disagree with you, there are a lot of options out there and for now my canoe is great, however, there may be an option for a second larger one in the future. Thanks for the feedback on your canoe and how it can tackle the rocks, this is great to know. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
@@Getgowin owner of 16 different kayaks (different lengths, styles and materials including a WaveWalk which is more like a catamaran/canoe/kayak. Also have a 14.5' kevlar canoe and a 17 fiberglass. She's a tank but fantastic for paddle-camping with a friend and a dog. That's about the only time she gets to see water.
@@bullyakker now you’re just showing off! Good target for me to aspire to, so many options…
I have both a 15.5foot plastic and I just picked up a 12foot fiber glass.
The reason I ended up with the ones I did was they where both cheap.
I traded a old TV and guitar for the 15ft
And the fiberglass was 50 bucks cdn.
My plan is to keep my canoe on the back of my truck year round to make quick fishing trips easy.
I decided to get the 12 foot mostly for solo trips. It's easy to carry. Room for my dog, and a hell of an up grade from my 10foot inflatable kayak.
The 12foot will get the most use as its the easiest to manage.
But I'm going to keep the 15.5foot for when I wanna take a buddy out
Hey Ethan, sounds like you grabbed two great bargains. Great idea to keep the small one on the truck for when you come across a great fishing spot. Thanks for watching and enjoy your canoes! Cheers Paul
Very informative video, thanks for all the tips! Am looking forward to getting a couple of kayaks and doing a weekend trip up the Murray River soon!!
Thanks for the feedback Shaun. Murray River is on my list, let me know if you post the trip on Facebook or Instagram so I can check it out. Cheers Paul
Thanks for the video. I just started my camping / outdoors CZcams channel last year. I did backpacking, bikepacking, kayak camping and canoe camping. I quickly found that canoe camping was my favourite so I picked up a used 13 foot canoe this year. I can't wait to get out on the water for my first trip. I didn't want a large canoe for all the reasons you mentioned. Most of the time I am solo in the canoe so there is plenty of room. I do plan on taking my kids out for a paddle every now and them but they are still small so 13 feet should be good...until they keep growing. Thanks for the video, I just subscribed. Cheers. Dave
Hi Dave, thanks for the great feedback and for watching. I have subscribed to your channel as well, it appears we share the same love of the outdoors and film making. I look forward to watching your canoe adventures. Cheers Paul
@@Getgowin Thanks Paul. Here in Canada we have some great camping spots but I'm kinda jealous of all those great sites you have found.
USA perspective. I use my canoe for 5-14 days wilderness expedition camping trips. Flatwater paddling, mostly on big lakes, always with my wife. I needed a tandem canoe that could carry the amount of gear for trips of that length and type, was reasonably priced when purchased used, and wasn't too heavy (I injured my back many years ago and a heavy canoe might aggravate the injury). I purchased a used (1-year) Wenonah Champlain in kevlar layup for 2000 USD in 2017. This canoe is 18'-0" long, has a lot of gear and weight capacity, is very seaworthy in big water, and weighs in at only 46 pounds.
I have just purchased a Nova Craft Prospector 16 in TuffStuff for tandem river paddling. TuffStuff is Nova Craft's Royalex replacement and is a composite plastic that weighs considerablly less than fiberglass. Fiberglass is one of the least expensive layups, has moderate durability and relatively easy repair. However, fiberglass is also one of the heaviest material types and for that reason alone I would not purchase a fiberglass canoe.
Hey, thanks for the perspective, I love to learn from others. Wow 18 foot is a massive Canoe, it must have great carrying capacity and would hold its line beautifully. Have you thought about a sailing setup for it? I can see myself getting a second larger Canoe at some point to take friends and family out on the water. I would love to see your Canoe and show my viewers, are you able to post a picture on my Facebook page, or Instagram at Getgowin_aus.
Thanks for watching and for sharing your views and experience. Cheers Paul
Nice little boat. Some great points. Personally I love my 16 foot prospector for solo and tandem trips. I like the speed and carrying capacity a longer boat brings
Hey Kent, I can see the value in a longer boat. Might need a two boat policy!
Good luck in winds over 10 mph
@GeoDude happily solo into much higher winds. Sitting closer to center kneeling and correct forward trim helps
Good stuff. I too own a 11’6” canoe. Old Town Pack made of Royalex. Rocks don’t bother me much. I use a 240cm kayak paddle. I put a GSI seatbacker on it, big difference comfort wise. I use a 3” foam roll,(the kind for pipe insulation)split length wise on top of the seat so when folded down, it acts as a yoke. For rivers or wind a simple 1.5 pound anchor on a trolley works well. The canoe is not fast, and tracks just o.k. especially compared to a longer boat. Enjoy your boat, we aren’t getting any younger! Cheers from Chicago!
Hello in Chicago! Sounds like you have a great setup, I am also toying with the idea of an anchor setup so that I can hold fast in one spot. Thanks for watching, regards Paul
The OT Pack is a beast
Hey Paul, mate great info in your video and i think your on the money with your canoe. Really like how you can take enough gear for either an overnight or multi night stays without being overloaded. I bought an esky very similar to yours and did an overnight trip near Rathdowney last week and it was impressive how cold its keeps everything. Look forward to your next trip and see your adventures. Cheers Shaun.
Thanks Shaun, yes the Esky's are brilliant. Rathdowney is beautiful part of the world, I hope you enjoyed it. Regards, Paul
Canadian here with a 17’ Swift Keewaydin in Carbon Fusion - it’s 38 lbs or 17.5 kg which is a little lighter than Kevlar.
It’s a tripping canoe - very fast and efficient to paddle ( the longer the boat the quicker it is ) Kevlar and Carbon boats aren’t nearly as fragile as you’ve heard, up here there is no shortage of rocks and we hit them, run over them, etc etc haha. The longer boats are great for a couple doing extended trips in the back country while the light weight is appreciated on the portages which can be several kilometres long depending on where your at. The more common solo length seems to be approximately 14’to 15’ and the 16’ Prospector models are hugely popular in plastic or composite layups. Airbags don’t take up that much room and while all canoes have built in buoyancy, the airbags also serve to displace water when the boat fills in rapids or dumps, making it easier (lighter) to recover / and empty.
Happy Paddling!
Hi James, that is good to hear that the boats will hold up to more rough treatment. Swift Canoes are finally coming to Australia and I have my eye on a 14' Prospector perhaps in the Kevlar Fusion to keep the price reasonable. Totally understand the speed of larger boats, but without to many options we are challenged in Oz to get the right boat. Thanks for watching, cheers Paul.
I here you and all options are compromises, long canoe; fast, but more susceptible to wind, storage etc…
Regardless of what you paddle, at the end of the day, you’re paddling and that’s what counts! Nice chatting, keep up the great content.
Cheers
Hi Paul, thanks for sharing. I've been using kayaks, both sit in and sit on top.
We mostly visit calm water, dams, lakes and rivers. We particularly enjoy overnights, or yakpacking.
I've been thinking about getting a canoe, or a fibreglass kayak. I like to be able to roof-top my boat by myself - and smaller/lighter is clearly best for that. You've given me plenty to think about in this video; and I'm a new sub too. 😀
Hi Shaz, glad I could help with other ideas. I took my nephew out on the weekend in his sit on top kayak for an overnight trip (latest video) and whilst he had a great time he is now convinced that a canoe is the way to go. Thanks for the Sub and for watching! Cheers Paul
I've got an 11.9 canoe and while I originally wanted to go with one of the lightweight boats, I actually have learned to love this one for many of the reasons you bring up in this video. The major one is that here in Oregon, most of our lakes and rivers are full of large rocks. The bottom of my canoe is completely scratched up. My canoe is the kevlar version. It's heavy for sure, but it's very, very durable. I got my mine because I only had enough for this canoe. If I would have gotten a lightweight, or lightskin model, I would have been spending a lot of time repairing it.
Hi Russell, I do like the idea of a heavier duty Kevlar Canoe. Thanks for watching. Cheers Paul
@@Getgowin I slipped up. I do not have a kevlar canoe. It's a three layer polyethylene. Sorry about that. Not sure what I was thinking.
That makes more sense. They are a very tough unit.
This helped me make my decision to get the 119. Thanks!
Glad I can could help, the 119 is a great Canoe. Cheers Paul
Appreciate your sharing attitude! I have two seventeen foot canoes. Used, old Coleman Ram-X brand. Primarily we float flat water or easy flowing rivers. Often we are on the Columbia River in the CRGNSA. It’s windy often, can be choppy and often there can be boat and barge wakes to contend with. The Coleman Ram-X canoe is like a big old pickup truck. It can haul so much weight and remains steady. It handles like a big old truck too. Steady Eddie but it’s no sports car. Anyway, sometimes I want or need to take a trip solo. I do take the Coleman out solo but I’m aware that it’s bigger than I need, heavy without help but still a boat that lets me carry anything and a back up if needed. I am shopping for a smaller, lighter solo canoe. I hadn’t imagined I might go under 12 feet. Now I’m considering trying something that small. Thanks for your video!
Thanks for watching and your thoughts. The “big old pickup truck “ is a great analogy, I can see myself getting a longer canoe for the same reasons. I look forward to hearing about your new boat. Regards Paul
I used to own a 17.5 foot Seda Wanderer fiberglass canoe. One winter decades ago, I took my wife, and our Labrador Retriever down the Colorado River from Willow Beach to Parker Dam. Five days of paddling into the wind with whitecaps on Lake Mojave. It was the perfect canoe for that trip. Today at 70, I would stay away from that crazy stuff.
Hi Mike, 17.5 foot is a big boat, but plenty of room! I bet the retriever enjoyed the trip regardless. I hope you find a smaller boat to get back on the water. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
fantastic vid! so few done for taller/bigger men. you've sold me. 😃 been looking a long time. thank you.
Thanks Ian, I appreciate the feedback and for watching. Cheers Paul
I like my 14’ you are right about wind what great fishing and camping canoe it is great video thankyou
That's great feedback re your 14' canoe and thanks for watching my videos.
Good experience based advice. Thank you.
Cheers MK, and thanks for watching.
What a great video! I’ve just discovered your channel. I live in the Redlands and usually paddle board everywhere … however I really love your Canoe 🥰🥹 feel like I know the spot you’re filming at ;) how fantastic :)
Hello Kristen, nice to hear from a fellow Brisbanite. It seams I am running into paddle boarders everywhere which is great. Thanks for watching, cheers Paul
I live in North America and canoe in the Missouri Ozarks. I paddle small fast moving rivers and I take trips up to 6 days, 5 nights. My two favorite canoes for this (solo paddling) are the Mad River Explorer 15 and the Mohawk Odyssey 15. Hull material of choice is Royalex. I love these canoes because they are as stable as a SOT to stand and fish in and the Explorer especially can handle big water if I run into flooding. I think it is important to do things in a way that makes you feel comfortable. I like how you’re doing your thing your way. Thanks for your video.
Hey thanks for watching, I can see myself in a 14 footer in the future for longer trips for the extra room. Cheers Paul
Well done Sir! Thank you! :)
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers Paul
I am researching buying my first canoe after renting for years. I travel with my dog and for a max of 7 nights and 14’ seems like a sweet spot and I am leaning towards a Swift canoe. I found what you said about Kevlar interesting and hadn’t heard of this before but it’s good to know. Thanks for the video.
Hi Cliff, thanks for watching. I agree if you want to take your dog and travel for 7 nights a 14' Canoe is perfect. The Swift Canoes are beautiful and very well made. I would love to see what you end up purchasing. Regards, Paul
Discovery 158 thank me later. You and your dog will enjoy the extra space and cargo capacity.
Good explanation of choice and if I ever lower myself (joking) to a canoe it would be your exact model. I love the ability to carry so much
Mmm, jealousy coming from the Kayak camp, not uncommon! Thanks for watching...
Great video. I've been out dozens of times with two people in a 13' old aluminum canoe. Even when camping with two people, we never thought it was too small. Thinking about getting a lightweight 12.5" canoe for easier portaging. It seems rare to see two people fit into "solo" sized canoes.
Hi Paul, you are correct I see 14 foot cases passed off as a single person boat. 12.5 would be perfect. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
Well said Paul. A good, honest and well reasoned review. I look forward to reading comments from people in North America. I’m sure they would have little, if any idea of the limitation of choices here in Australia compared to their market. I was interested in your comment regarding weight when you said 20 kg. Did you not get the lightweight version at 16kgs?
Thanks Ken, greatly appreciated. No I didn't go with the light lay up, I wanted to ensure it would last for 20 years. After picking one up at the factory I decided it was already light enough. Cheers Paul
I've had a 11.5 Sprite from One Tree canoe for two years now. Very happy with it. Agree it is the right size for one person plus some gear and or a dog. Plus it can be repaired.
Cheers Gerard, and thanks for watching
I just got a 12’ Esquif the other day half price. So excited to paddle and go explore with it. Have a 17’ Grumman aluminum canoe used for years all over, but it was a barge at 75 pounds. This Esquif weighs 39 pounds and is made of TFormex. Rated for Class 1 and 2 rapids. I’m going to test that out here in Asheville NC, on the French Broad River.
Two boat policy is not a bad one... You will find the Esquire much easier to manoeuvre and portage. Enjoy. Regards Paul
Beam, depth and rocker can be as important as length, material, and weight for assessing canoe suitability. I have never considered solo tripping in such a small canoe (N. Minnesota and Ontario), but you would not spend much time on such a little creek like the one pictured for any multiday trip I can think of - more time would be spent on lakes and deeper rivers that such a short boat would likely get annoying to paddle because they don't track as well. Looks like a fun creek!
Hi Andy, thanks for the input. Whilst the smaller canoe may not track as well, it is not as susceptible to being pushed around by the wind so there are pro's and cons. Regards, Paul
Great points. Very informative and helpful. Thanks heaps mate. 👍🏼
I'm from Australia too, and always looking for new spots to go canoe camping. Would love to hear your recommendations, if you got any spots you don't mind sharing.
Morning Japple, thanks for the kind words. Happy to share Camping spots, which state are you in?
@@Getgowin QLD mostly, although I'm close to the NSW border so anywhere in South East Qld or northern NSW is easily accessible for me. Don't mind travelling to explore new spots.
Okay head to the Evans Head Estuary, great fishing and camping. Just head up river and keep your eye out for flag camp spots.
@@Getgowin Awesome. Thanks I'll check it out 👍🏼
Also, any opinions on OLD TOWN solo canoe or a Wenonah solo canoe? Currently comparing as I need something about more durable than my handmade wood canoe.
I would look at the Old Town as there is better stock and they are very durable for the price.
Used a 17 ft canoe for 40 yrs with very few problems. It carried me, my wife, two small kids and my springer and all our gear just fine. And at the time the 70 pounds were quite doable, ( not anymore at 74). But we built great memories in the BWCA with that thing. A canoe just needs to fit your mission. If small works then wonderful. Even used a 20ft canoe one year because my canoe partner didn’t listen to me and brought the proverbial kitchen sink. Damn thing was heavy.
Very true Arthur, the canoe does need to fit your mission. This is why I wanted to share my view on shorter canoes if your not carrying huge loads and other paddlers. 20' is a monster, but I'm sure you were able to carry some lots of luxuries. Thanks for watching, regards Paul
@@Getgowin we carried more than what we needed because my friend brought duplicates of things
OT Penobscot 17" in Royalex. I live in Missouri, where our river bottoms are chert and flint, the stuff they knapped arrowheads from. Glass and Kevlar do not last here. Royalex was the bomb proof hull material.
Hey thanks for watching. Yeah I agree that stuff is bomb proof and often the better choice in rougher conditions. Cheers Paul
If a Kevlar canoe is built sturdily enough for moving water, it's fine in rocky rapids. It's not limited to still water. My Wenonah Solitude- 15', Kevlar, 44 lbs- bounced off plenty of rocks with only scratches. In the United States, you buy a Kevlar canoe because it's tough and light; otherwise you wouldn't be spending twice what fiberglass costs. My Kevlar bottom looked exactly like the green canoe bottom you showed. Over here fiberglass is what you avoid if you expect to encounter rocks. And a fiberglass layup of the same Wenonah Solitude would have weighed around 52 lbs. They must make canoes differently in Australia.
Hi Fred, thanks for the info good to know you can get heavier built units for moving water. The new method with Fibreglass is Vacuum Bagging similar to what they use on boats. This essentially squeezes out any excess resin with reduce the weight substantially. Having said all that, we are limited in our options unfortunately as everyone is moving to plastic fantastic kayaks. Thanks for the comment and for watching. Cheers Paul
I chose my current canoe for two things versitility and stability. at 65 pounds it may not be the lightest canoe made but it is stable. with its square stern I put a small trolling motor on it for fishing.
Sounds like a nice setup Forest. Thanks for watching, cheers Paul
Hey mate,,CANADA HERE,, been canoeing 40 plus years,,most of them years in a 16 footer,,al types too,kevlar,poly,allumiun and fibre glass,wich lasted me 18 years,,my fave,,4 years ago ,got me self a 12 “old town, same reasons as you really,,its all i needed for myself,easy to manage for me,,im only 5 / 6,,140 pnds,, i friggn love it,,i do all my trips in it ,sorry boys), my freinds all still luggn 16” footers,,,oh ya its kevlar
Hey Pauly B, thanks for tuning in from Canada! Great to read about you Canoe journey, I think perhaps a 2 boat policy might be the go, but its hard to go past the smaller boat for most occasions. Cheers Paul
i just picked up an OLD TOWN 119 .
11' 9" long , and i believe 32" wide .
perfect for one person !
Nice work Pappy, years of enjoyment ahead! Thanks for watching, cheers Paul
The front and back tie down is to reduce the load on the roof rack. The longer lengths act like longer levers. Even a short canoe should be tied down at the front. I tied down my longer windsurfers.
Thanks for watching Chris, agree on longer canoes but on my short little guy it hardly makes it past the top of the windscreen on my Suburu Forester. Neve been an issue for me, however on a longer one, it's a great idea. Regards, Paul
I'm in the United Stated, Maine, I find one can't just get along with just one canoe, I have a bunch, from traditional wood canvas to carbon fiber, and in between in the form of the Old Town boats, mostly the older out of production Royalex and one of the heavy plastic that is just way to heavy to use much so I don't get out in that one much. Most of them are used cheap boats, YOU have some good points on a smaller boat and I get it all. Yet I am finding 15 feet for a nice solo boat is just fine. I do stand and pole a lot so a longer boat is more suited to standing and using a pole, I canoe in small streams to larger rivers and run up to class 3 so a bigger boat is almost required on the bigger rivers, but the smaller trout streams I go with my little 14 foot Royalex Old Town Hunter. Your boat looks like the Old Town Pack. I do have a Swift in Carbon Fiber a Prospector 15 and it gets to see some rocky stuff now and then its a pricy boat and the only one I bought new, Its a mid level lay up so not expedition tough but better and it can be banged around on rock and such I have more scratches on it than your boat but its older, Kevlar carbon fiber is supposed to be more tough than fiber glass. It the expense of the boat that keeps people from banging them up, they take the abuse many can be found in rental fleets so they get Used. I think a little 12 foot boat like yours with some float bags would be a blast in some quick water at which point those bags would be needed but not on a regular trip as you suggest, the float bags can be taken out.
Wow, firstly thanks for watching. I really appreciate you sharing what you use and why, I’m hoping to have a ‘Fleet’ of canoes myself one day. Regards, Paul
Thanks for the greats vid’s Paul. I have recently moved to Australia and Brisbane. I am very keen to get out and do some wild canoe camping. Will def be checking out One Tree! I was just wondering what the regulations are in Queensland regarding wild camping? Basically, where and when are you allowed to wild camp? Any restrictions with making fires? (Obviously not in national parks)
Hi Scott, essentially you're not allowed to wild camp in the National Parks and most of the lakes have camping grounds. So I'm not exactly doing the right thing by camping around them, but, I ensure that I clean up afterwards and leave no trace. Having said that, outside of these areas there are not restrictions, so estuaries and the like are a great option. Looking forward to hearing about your new canoe! Thanks for watching, regards Paul.
Thanks Paul! Appreciate the feedback. Will start with some day trips to scout some potential spots and take it from there! Look forward to following your adventures.
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Great video !
Thanks, great to have people from the home of Canoeing watching my videos. And thanks for the subscription! Cheers Paul
Hello my fellow paddler and CZcamsr! I appreciate your overview of a short canoe and I get it! However, I have the opposite view, but to each his own right? I use a 16-foot solo carbon/Kevlar composite because I spend most of my time on lakes. It's faster and more efficient than a shorter canoe. It handles rocks and bumps easily. It tracks far better than a prospector design, and it carries more cargo. The biggest issue for me is weight. My 16-footer is 29 lbs, which is far lighter than any 11 - 13 foot canoe I've seen online. That said, a shorter canoe is easier to maneuver, and if you get a fiberglass layup, you can fix it easier in the field. Many blessings!
Hey thanks for watching my video, I’ve watched a couple of yours over the years and you guys are spoilt for choice. As I explore more places I realise that a 2 boat policy might be better for all the reasons you stated above. Cheers Paul
Found this a year late. I’m going to look into a glass repair kit for remote trips. There are plenty of tapes that will keep you going for at least a day. Duct tape (aka hundred mile an hour tape) is one. I haven’t looked into some of the new fancy water proof tapes.
Hey thanks for watching. Yes tapes are the most beneficial to take for all sorts of repairs. You should be able to get a glass repair kit at you hardware store. Cheers Paul
Everything depends on what kind of canoe trips you like to take, but once you spend time in a big canoe, the more you want to plan big canoe trips. We like big, rivers and the ocean (Sea of Cortez) and we take everything you can imagine, including ice chests, tents, cots, drinking water, folding chairs, portable tent latrines etc. All this goes in 3 or four cargo canoes, which are at least 18'. We stay gone a week to 10 days or more. We can stand-up in them and even swap places without tipping over.
Small canoes aren't much better than sit-on-top kayaks. They float and that's all they're really good for.
We once took a weeks trip through the Okefenokee National Wildlife Refuge (gator-invested swamplands.) You have to camp on designated, raised platforms to keep from sharing your bed with the gators. some of which are 8 to 9 feet long, plus the tail. Nobody takes little canoes down there, in fact we didn't see any canoes of any kind and certainly no kayaks are allowed. We fished everyday and hooked.dozens, but never managed to get one in a boat before the gators got them. Once a beautiful bird landed on the water right next to my canoe. I reached for a camera but snap! The bird was gone and a few floating feathers drifted away.
So you can keep your cute-little, tippy canoes (we have one of those too and even the kids won't touch it.)
Hi James, firstly thanks for detailed comment, always happy to take on other peoples views. But, if you have 4 cargo canoes you may as well have a boat. I travel lightly and don’t need to take everything as this is not camping if you have everything from home. With regards to Alligators we have Salt Water Crocodiles, a lot bigger and a lot more aggressive. They say Australia is where the Devil keeps his pets and that’s not to far wrong. So, I will keep my little Canoe and continue to enjoy my trips in one of the most hostile places on the earth. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
Interesting and helpful. How much freeboard when loaded like that? What is you est weight with you and gear? What is canoe beam and depth.
Hi James, freeboard is 150mm, I’m 90kg and around 20kg of gear. Beam is 720mm and depth is 310mm. If you watch my other videos you will see that it’s more than enough room. Thanks for watching. Paul
I love your canoe
Cheers, it's perfect for me. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
CARBON FIBER: CF will become brittle in UV light(sunlight) and it also degrades over time. thats why i avoid in the cycling genra. a hairline crack in carbon can give way much later after it developed.
Poly and Royalex: they are extremely robust and can sit outside for decades. i have never seen a 3ply poly or royalex deveolp "crack" as you say. they will heat warp the bottom(creates drag)
Fiberglass: WILL develop cracks if stored outdoors. but as you say, they are easy enough to repair
Thanks Crabtrap, you make some solid points which I appreciate you sharing. Thanks for watching, Paul
Nice balanced presentation. Good to know your height for scale (even if imperial though the canoe world seems mixed, length in feet, weight in kg!) and how much gear you can fit including beer. Just a comment on hiking, I went from a neat small pack, to a bigger one, not to carry more but so much quicker to pack in the rain or a blizzard, the dump and strap method as opposed to place and pack. We really ought to be able to do something about recycling polyethylene kayaks and the like. If not too oxidised should be able to be shredded and used for something like fence posts. A small business with a mobile shredder anyone?
Thanks Ian, I agree about the measurements I wish they would just pick one... Yes a real pity about the plastic canoes / kayaks they are hugely popular and there is no recycling that I am aware of. Thanks for watching, Cheers Paul
@@Getgowinat what point is a plastic canoe ready for the shredder?
@dubmob151 well most will come with a 10 year warranty. Typical life is 10 to 15 years as the UV light will break them down. But if you store them under cover they can last longer. Problem is one they start going you can’t stop it.
Any boat is a compromise. The important part is that you like yours and it does what you want it to do in the waters that you use.
I use bow and stern tie downs on my 18 ft boat and my 10.5 ft boat. It's not so much to hold it down as pulling the ends down to much can deform the boat. It's more to keep the boat from launching forwards or backwards in the event of rapid deceleration or an impact.
Hey thanks for watching, I couldn't agreee more. You need to work out what works for you, which I why I wanted to put this video out. I don't see to many smaller Canoes in use and wanted my viewers to see that there are alternatives. Good to understand the issue around tying the canoe for forward and rearward movement as apposed to up and down, wasn't aware of this. Cheers Paul
@@Getgowin To my dismay, I learned that in order to cover all of the types of water I like, I needed more than one boat.
However, I haven't regretted it. 18 ft sea kayak for open water and coastal trips, crossover kayak for whitewater and a small sailing trimaran for longer range, plus the folding tandem Klepper when air transport is in issue. All of them are fun to get out in.
Haha, yes that’s the best option, one boat for each use!
You have my ‘dream’ canoe ☺️ I’ve paddled a 14’ & 16’ solo and they were too heavy to carry alone.
What are your thoughts on aluminum?
I don’t mind aluminium,but, it dents rather than bouncing off rocks. So if you’re using it in lakes and calm rivers, then no issue at all. But not the best for running rapids and bouncing over rough bottoms.
@@Getgowin good to know! Thanks for your reply and this video 🕊
hi, its mehrdad from vancouver bc ,can I please know the specifications of your canoe for preparation, thanks
Hi Mehrdad, not sure what you are looking for. My canoe is 3.5 meters long, weighs 20kg and is made of fibreglass. Let me know if you need anything more. Cheers Paul
Longer canoe draws shallower for low water creeks. Longer base length handles whitewater better. It spans swells like a champ
Very true, but I hate longer canoes in the wind. Especially on lakes. That’s why we need both. Thanks for watching.
Southern United States. Old Town pack canoe. Small lakes and streams. Weighs 33 lb and Halls everything I need.
Hi Clayton, 33lb is a great weight! Old Town make some great canoes, they were on my shortlist. Thanks for watching. Cheers Paul
I've been using my kevlar canoe in rivers for years. It's bashed to hell. Every few years I slap a new layer of resin on the bottom and it clears up all of the scratches and protects the cloth. They are not that fragile and they can be repaired quite easily.
That’s interesting, as the only ones we get in Aus are the super light type and they don’t recommend getting them near rocks. So a tougher version would be brilliant. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
Nice video, but I'd take T-Formex or an inegra composite boat on rocks over fiberglass any day.
Yeah the the guys with T-Formex boats all swear by them and they are a great option. Thanks for watching, regards Paul
My kevlar Supernova is paddled regularly in class IV white water and handles it fine and kevlar is always stronger than fiberglass.
Hi James, thanks for the Sub. I totally agree that Kevlar is stronger, unfortunately here in Australia we only get the super lightweight models. Thanks for watching and for the input. Cheers Paul
You can fix polyethylene with West Marine G85. Just be sure to flash the poly per instructions. Bought a Town Discovery for $300 with a crunched nose an,,,,,,,,,,repaired it. Also a 7 inch S crack on my Outback.
Thanks MK, how structurally strong are the repairs?
Gave the wrong number.
West Marine G-Flex 655-8 YT won’t allow me to put a link.
Your method of carrying Fiberglas kit is sound and a lot quicker. West Marine takes 6-8 hours to cure
Structurally sound. One article cut vertical lines in an old canoe, repaired with GFlex and ran rapids.
Have you paddled this mini with a kayak paddle?
Yes I have tried a double ended paddle which works fine. You do get a little wet though. Still prefer a single paddle as I’m not in a hurry and they’re a lot quieter. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
you should ALWAYS tie down the bow and stern of any size canoe boat kayak regardless of what you think, its for safety when braking in an emergency the bow stern lines will stop the boat from being hurled forward and causing injury or damage, many states in the US and Canada require it by law. I would like to see it made Law here in the UK.
Good to know Victor. It’s not law here in Australia, but the majority of people have kayaks with specific mounts on their racks. Thanks for watching, cheers Paul
Yeah , another law is just what you need in the uk.
Okay I want to get me a solo canoe for the first time and I'm leaning towards getting the Old Town Solo Sportsman 11'9 and I do want to take care of it and not bang it up so much as to have to do any repairs at all so I know this canoe is built tough and weighs in at 55 lbs. but what can I add to the bottom of the canoe when I get one as to not have it scar up so much ? I'm not just being a little paranoid I just want to take care of that $1100 boat for my lifetime and not have to buy another one !!!
Hi Jeffrey, the most common item to protect your Canoe is a bow protector. Its essentially a patch of strong material that is glued to the bow and sweeps under the keel to protect the front from rock damage. With regards to the remainder of the Canoe there's not much you can do other that paddling on lakes or estuaries where the are no rocks. Thanks for watching.
@@Getgowin I think that material is some type of skid tape !!! You give me an idea perhaps some type of can spray on bedliner like what goes in the back of pickup truck bed and that's not that costly either is only thing I can think of and I wonder if that will make the canoe go slower ?
Hi Jeffrey, yes it can either be a tape like KeelEazy (link below) or a Kevlar strip. If you wanted to add a protective layer to the entire canoe it would need to be a mirror finish, otherwise you are correct it would slow that Canoe down. A Fibreglass Canoe can be repaired repeatedly, so when mine starts to get really bad I will take it back to the manufacturer (One Tree Canoe) and have them re-fibreglass the bottom which will make it like new. Hope this helps, regards Paul
@@jeffreyelliott622 the bed liner will slow you down emeslly. also scan craiglist FB market place. you will find the 11.9 old town on there for $300-400. its not rocket scienc....its a canoe
I paid $200 for my 1984 Mad River Slipper, 15 ft. some simple modifications turned it into a 42 lb. expedition solo canoe. Why would I trade it for the 11 foot canoe?
How do you find it in strong winds on a lake?
Straight upwind is NP. Pack and food bag go in the bow, and I kneel a little behind the center. Of course upwind is annoying after a while. @@Getgowin
Thanks for the video, would your 11.5 canoe be too small to bring a dog, say 31 kilos?
Hey thanks for watching. If it’s just you and the dog then no problem at all. But if you want camping gear as well then get a 14 foot version. Cheers Paul
How stable is it. I have been kayaking for years. Me and the wife go 3 to 4 times a week. We are just wanting to take the grandkids. They are 6 and 3 years old so not much weight there. Me and the wife are not big people. Both of us together might be 300 pounds. Sorry, I don't know kilos. Do, you think a boat this small would work?
Hi guys, no this is a one person only Canoe. If you’re wanting two people and grandkids then you’ll want a 15 - 16 footer. Thanks for watching and subscribing. Cheers Paul
Thank you👍@@Getgowin
Im in NE USA but paddle both creeks / rivers and lakes. Also paddle camp thru Northern US and Canada in 18 ft sea kayak. 12 ft rotomold canoe is my definite goto for 4 to 5 day solo trips. Open choppy water, or distance is kayak. Fast, secureon open water, hard to portage and make camp. Lakes, creeks portages canoe. Lots of room, easy load unload. Put lash cords 4 ft back from bow across front gunnels to hold gear down and this provides flotation for the most part. Good review. Sound thinking. I don't haul furniture in a Porsche, nor do I race my truck. Different animals.
Hello in the US, yes I can see myself with several craft over time, my brother has a hybrid kayak so I'm looking forward to see how we gets on with that. I live on the coast with a big bay so a sea kayak would make sense to explore the islands. Thanks for sharing and for watching, regards Paul
Air bags in a canoe are for water displacement. A swamped canoe is not going to paddle well regardless of length
Hi Jon, understand the issue of displacement and a canoe full of water. Just seems a pity to reduce the carrying capacity. Very interested in hearing about your canoe and preferences. Thanks for watching. Regards, Paul
@@Getgowin I drive a 16-4 prospector. Have no issues with gear space. Solo or with others in the canoe. And at 35 lbs/16 kg it is easy to portage. Air bags are only used when volume is needed for lack of gear being carried.
Nice boat Jon, thanks for the comments.
@@Getgowin Air bags don't reduce the unswamped carrying capacity weight-wise, only volume-wise. The weight-wise carrying capacity is determined by the hull only. The air bags improve the swamped carrying capacity which without them, would be nearly zero.
@AdventuresWithUnkadee yes I understand this. Just seems a pity to loose all that carrying capacity volume wise. Thanks for watching
What brand is the canoe?
My canoe is a One Tree Canoe, website: www.onetreecanoe.com
Thanks for watching, regards Paul
Hi can I get my 2 man canoe made in to a 1 man
He Selwyn, most canoes can be paddled backwards by one person, so the front seat becomes your seat. But no you can't shorten a canoe, the cost would be the same as building a new one. Thanks for watching. Cheers Paul
They was 2 of as 1 piss of I see how I go when the weather comes right thankyou for that
It’s a shame that there are not more small canoe options especially for the budget range.
Hey Conrad, I agree there should be more options. Interestingly the guy who made mine is now increasing his focus on these smaller canoes as there is a growing number of people enquiring about them. Thanks for watching, regards Paul
@@Getgowin Well that great news!
Boats made of HDPE are very repairable. They dont hold up well to sunlight, but they can be repaired and very easily
Hi Joseph, thanks for watching and the information. Can you repair a major crack in the side of the Canoe? Or just minor holes etc? Just wanting to ensure our community gets the right information as this is all very valuable for people wanting a new canoe. Thanks again, Paul
If it is HDPE it can be welded. you can build up thin spots by adding more layers, and you can fill cracks and gouges as well. The great thing is, HDPE is everywhere (Laundry soap bottles for example).
When I first got my plastic welder (it's like a heat gun more or less) I cut up some of those 18 or 20 l plastic buckets into strips and welded them together. Even pulling against the weld I couldn't pull them apart. The two pieces become essentially a single piece.
Other plastics are weldable too, but I think HDPE is what they make canoes and kayaks from. @@Getgowin
You can repair the plastic ones easier than you can fiberglass
Hi Thomas, I’m just going off what the canoe rental fleet guys are telling me. Particularly if it’s structural. But I do understand you can patch all of them . Thanks for watching.
I don't think vacuum-bagging makes fiberglass any stronger, just lighter.
Yes that's correct.
I mispelled on the search bar and now i am here
Hey, glad you found me! I hope you enjoy my content!
Got that lead foot eh?! 😂😂
Hey thanks for watching, what are you referring to?
@Getgowin oh, when u said that when your travelling down the highway at 120km/h passing cars with ur canoe on top! Lol
Hahaha, yes I’m in a hurry to go camping! Probably should slow down. Cheers Paul
I have paddled whitewater for years in a fragile fiberglass canoe. I've had to patch the odd ding I'll admit. But I have to state that a plastic canoe is a great substitute for skill.
I agree, I think the price point and toughness of the plastic canoes is a real draw card for a lot of paddlers. Thanks for watching.
Small canoes are good for a single person doing a solo trip.
Bigger canoes great for 2 people and there items. Me can't afford one.
Hi Dale, frustrating when you can't get on the water. Second hand Canoes are a great idea as many people get them and then never really use them. Thanks for watching. Regards Paul
Aren't you afraid of alligators?
Hey Mirko, no we don’t have Alligators, but we do have crocodiles which are far more aggressive. Luckily for me they are only found in the northern parts of Australia, 1,500 km’s from where I live. Cheers Paul
If only you had entitled this "why smaller is better FOR ME (and the style of tripping I DO)". The title as is implies a universal truth, which this clearly is not. There are lots of trippers that have different use cases from yours. Maybe "Choosing a Canoe - Why choosing the right size for YOU is better."
Some of us are going to be a lot heavier than you. Or the combination of our selves and our gear will be heavier than you and your gear. A smaller man can paddle a bigger boat, but a bigger man in a smaller boat is not going to get very far.
As others state, expedition kevlar layups (not ultra lite ones) are a lot tougher than you make out. And now, we are seeing some new composite materials that are still pretty light and very tough (featuring basalt fibers, amongst others).
Airbags have some real safety advantages for certain situations, particularly in white water (where a capsize could lead to your boat being pinned, wrapped around a rock, and bent or broken)), or when effecting a self-rescue in deep, rough water might be a life or death situation. Yep, if you spend your boating life in smaller, shallow creeks without rapids, they are not worth it.
Another thing that distinguishes a very small canoe from what I would consider a more average size (15-feet or bigger) boat: In an emergency, an average boat can carry yourself and another person ... perhaps someone with an injury who cannot otherwise travel. That is going to prove challenging in a sub 12-foot boat ... you cannot easily transport someone else in a pinch.
One final argument for larger boats: All other things being equal, a larger boat has a higher cruising speed. On lakes, that of course matters ... you can get further with less effort.
Hey, thanks for your detailed comment, I really appreciate you taking the time on this. With regards to the title it's my video, as such it is based on my usage, rather than saying everyone should use smaller. I am 195cm Tall and 100kg so there aren't to many people bigger than me. Totally understand about the Kevlar units, however in Australia these aren't available. The kevlar one's that I see promoted are often the ultralight units that most people will use due to their lower weight. I understand what Air bags are for, but as I state I don't run strong rapids (90% or canoeists are the same) so I don't need the room for these. Another aspect that I never see discussed for the larger 15' boats is their propensity to be blown around in the wind. All the posts I see on Facebook and the CZcams videos you never see bigger boats on strong wind. Friends that own larger canoes have attested to this as being a big problem when they are not heavily loaded. And finally speed, I cruise at 4.5 km/ hour which is more than fast enough for me. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment there is much to be learnt about this great pastime.
This boat obviously suits your needs. But you make a number of irrelevant comparisons, as well as mentioning plenty of cons for other boats/materials without mentioning the cons of your boat/material. Well made and presented vid but a bit more integrity would go a long way.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feedback. It’s more about my reasons for purchasing this particular canoe, rather than saying the others are bad. Luckily there has been a lot of comments (which is what I wanted) on other people’s choices and reasons for choosing their canoe. Cheers Paul
@@Getgowin yes but you need to be mindful of the perceptions you are portraying. Don’t ruin a good vid with lack of substance.