Bows Are Finally Dead
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- #destiny2 #destiny2pvp #d2
TL;DR:
Bows are dead except for Wishender. If you think this is a problem, help spread the word.
Bows are not duelling weapons at the moment, but Bungie just nerfed them with that thought in mind, when in fact, they're just used as Sniper replacements.
Bows could also be a fair and skillful primary. They need to punish the player for holding a lane indefinitely, and release the arrow immediately as they draw. This will discourage the bad habits that weapons like Wishender induce.
Intro is from Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
3:25 Bows Got Nerfed in 3 Ways
4:48 2 types of Bow user
5:59 The Bow Problem
6:40 the Sins of Wishender
8:43 March 5 Patch is Confusing
9:35 Bows Cannot Duel
10:51 A Better Nerf
14:16 Bows in The Current Meta
15:12 Bows are Not the best Peekshooting Weapon
15:54 120 Handcannons are Better Bows
16:17 The Necessity of Flick Aiming
17:15 Wishender Remains OP
17:37 I Hate Aim Assist
18:06 The Special Ammo Nerf Affected Bow Loadouts the Most
19:35 Not Fun
20:00 Outro
Damage Spreadsheet:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
1v1 Year 1 Vanilla Charity Tournament Playlist used at the end of the video:
• 1v1 charity tournament
Socials:
/ mazokumo
/ mazokvmo
/ @mazokumo
/ @mazokumoslow
/ mazokumo
Special Thanks to…
Yumi (My ex clan)
Cardinal Dive friends
ExpiredSmiles
Xaane
Catfish
LevinMegabyte
Jober7
harm (d2foundry)
Irredium (Yumi Founder)
MBP (Massive Breakdowns Discord)...
d2foundry.gg ...
CammyCakes and Hynra for being great sources of inspiration...
Bungie for a great source of Enjoyment...
Go subscribe to these channels:
/ @hynracanfly
/ @cammycakesgaming
Music Credit:
LEMMiNO - Cipher
• LEMMiNO - Cipher (BGM)
CC BY-SA 4.0
LEMMiNO - Firecracker
• LEMMiNO - Firecracker ...
CC BY-SA 4.0
LEMMiNO - Encounters
• LEMMiNO - Encounters (...
CC BY-SA 4.0
LEMMiNO - Triangular
• LEMMiNO - Triangular (...
CC BY-SA 4.0
LEMMiNO - Nocturnal
• LEMMiNO - Nocturnal (BGM)
CC BY-SA 4.0 - Hry
120 hc when they deal 160 damage after 2 headshots and can follow up for the kill = buff to compensate health change.
bows when they deal 150 damage a headshot after reloading, drawing, and peeking way out of cover after every single shot (forced to use oathkeepers, 2 draw time perks, and loader mods to reach reasonable ttk) = we don't know how to nerf infinite range and have 0 clue on how to tune perfect draw values because the guy who did it got fired so that's gonna be 2 headshots, take it or leave it.
trace rifles when special ammo change = you think you know pain?
devil's ruin when final warning was untouched =
grenade launchers when you can swap to rat king =
sunshot when you have to 4 tap = 💩
SMGs and Sidearms when they're good not because they can compete with 120s, but to pair with 120s =
The people that has to re-do all the numbers for D2 foundry = ☠
Please tell me this is propaganda
Wait sunshot is not good anymore I lived that gun for pvp
I loved the boom
just make them have less range and make 120's 110's
@@thebean6496 The reduced bodyshot damage from HCs + the global HP increase makes it so that running Explosive or Timed Payload (Or using Sunshot) is a massive detriment, since it forced bodyshot damage makes it so that 140s + Sunshot will have to kill in 4 shots no matter what. For Sunshot, it's at minimum a 2 head, 2 body kill, and against higher resilience tiers a 3H1B kill.
wait bows require two headshots now.
Damn if only I didn't give up d2 for lent I could of actually had fun in the game.
"Why is it that Bungie fails to understand the problem of a weapon they are balancing and they continue making changes that obligates people to resort to degenerate playstyles." Over the years, Bungie has continuously made backwards balance decisions and failed to learn from past balance decisions.
Aggressive bow main here and I've been looking for this POV. The rage against sniper-like play and hotswapping has destroyed bows as standalone primary weapons. Yes they still two-crit kill but if there's any buff at all in health, it will take 3 shots, and at that point your TTK is not competitive (its not anymore in the first place, as you demonstrated).
Also, a fully drawn crit shot + A near-fully drawn crit shot (the sweet spot with enough velocity to have some range and accuracy but slightly less draw time) no longer kills. If I get two critical hits, that should kill, full stop.
im almost tempted to spend all my time in 3v3 playing duoed and then just hold hands with double wishender to prove a point. but then i remember i'd rather get a lobotomy than play extremely passive in this game
I feel the same, I'd rather have fun than prove a point
you could do that with any bow lol its not a wishender problem
i did NOT expect the edits at the start lol
It was a blast from the past for me. Atlantis was one of my favourite childhood movies
Foghting Lion was just chilling eating its own potato chips and got his head slapped for no reason.
I mean yea it just did dmg so what ever other weapon you had could take the kill
Gotta be one of the best destiny videos I've seen. Great work, I'm glad to see other people realize the weight of these changes.
I was in the boat that if they removed Oath's infinite draw and added velocity back to imperfect draws, you'd nuke the feel for the passive players who haven't spent time learning the main skill gap, which is draw canceling. The main issues didn't change, and the wrong people were affected the most. Great video Mazo.
15:12 my thoughts exactly. 120HCs now have very little counter now that bows were nerfed as hard as they were.
Also laning with Pulse Rifles and Scouts is way more common, causing 120s to get even more viable
One of the reasons I liked Gutshot Straight on my bows was that the reduced aim assist meant my shot hit my target instead of the wall or cover they were next to or ducking behind.
Thank goodness this video actually addresses the issues that bows have.
I don't mind dying to an aggresive and actually skilled bow user. That's not what the issue is. Everything you said here is true.
The passive and forgiving playstyle (not to mention wish ender existing) makes matches drawn out and annoying as every engagement is just "I can't peak because I'm one shot, but I need to because he is going to cap point, but then he wall hacks pre fires me."
Again, bows can take skill and appreciate fighting those who do have it. But then you just have senor monarque who sits in the back of the map, although missing half of them, just randomly popping heads and leaving everyone one shot.
I feel stupid repeating these points but for me its like FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS IT.
I try to explain this to some friends who like to run privates why bows can dominate in a fun, but also an annoying way.
I did a match where I played passive, and one where I played aggressive. I'm no Hynra so my aggro run wasn't fantastic. But I had fun!
But when I did my Wish Ender run? It was like 30-6. Between like 4 other people. I asked them and they agreed it is just so annoying.
One day bows will be in a good spot in both balance and stance with the community. And I really wish it would come sooner than later.
passive 120 players are a ok i guess.
Tbh after playing the new checkmate sandbox for this week I want to go back. I’d rather deal with constant overshield spam and smgs than play passive and team shot with randoms which is what we’re being pushed towards now. TTK and ability spam might’ve been unbalanced but it also allowed for super flexible and creative buildcrafting
My loadouts have been massacred no more fun
Hey Mazo, thank you for this informative and thoughtful video. As an aggressive bow player myself, these changes have drained out the very last few droplets of fun I could experience with Destiny 2 PvP.
My biggest gripe with all these changes is that we're essentially condemning bow players to a playstyle that we all, and I mean all want to be gone while leaving the main culprits entirely unchecked. When you have to ruin an entire archetype and playstyle to justify the existence of a single exotic weapon that has been left unchecked in both PvP and PvE for the longest time, you're clearly lacking foresight. At this point, I am feeling very hopeless with the future of bows because the developers are contemptuous enough to tell us on a livestream that these changes are exactly what they wanted and that they are fine.
really well made video. I'm not even a bow player but I'm hoping bungie watches this and listens
Huge respect for all the efford you put into this. It came together really really well!
PvP balancing issues aside, I think the real issue from a PvE point of view is how busted Wishender is compared to most primaries (not that they are bad, but that WishEnder is so good that it eliminates variety like Always on Time did for sparrows). Heavy hitters like Eriana’s Vow don’t stand a chance compared to a one-shot barrier breaker with unlimited ammo, not to mention wall hack ability. I don’t think the solution is in nerfs, but in buffing other weapons closer to its level to make them viable.
Wishender remains the highest damage dealing primary (with no set-ups), in the game, both PvP and PvE... Kinda wild...
That creates power creep.
"Eliminate variety" no they don't, you do that when you limit yourself as a meta whore, I've had wishender since forsaken and I don't remember the last time I used it because it's boring. Idgaf what CZcams says, or what people tell me the meta is, I don't care about optimizing so ridiculously. I would bet money on the fact that I could easily clear any content you do with wishender (gms raids whatever) using an abundance of different primaries and have more fun than you 1000%. Fuck me, atm I've had a ball with herod c target lock fourth times because why not? It's there, it's decent, different, and a bit of fun. But this community could never, just a bunch of CZcams copy cats running the "meta" within 5mins of a video dropping. Get creative and find oddball rolls to have fun with don't complain that meta is bad when your the one restricting yourself to it. Nobody forces you to use wishender for everything ffs. I'd take astyanax with incandescent or point of the stag dragonfly+wildcard if I was gonna use a bow in pve and can guarantee I'm having way more fun, it's a game, stop acting like you need to optimise everything you're ruining the game for yourself soo much. Like people who are mad at skimmers because they make sparrows "redundant" no they don't! Only if your mindset is "meta all the time nothing else is worthwhile" what a lame way to play any game.
If you don't want to read that the short version is.
Your putting "meta" above "fun" and then complaining about your own decision. Try things out.
@@user-sx3py2my3u I am simply stating that among my friends, we have all come to the consensus that Wish Ender does not have the same drawbacks that other weapons do. Despite that, we often use a variety of weapons in higher-end PvE activities. Even if Wish Ender is used, its often designated to one person with a specific playstyle to allow more breathing room for the others to experiment and use less meta weapons and play styles.
I was a bow main, using lightweight by itself, and swapping with precision. Now I use 120 hc.
Seemingly all according to Bungie's plan
This was the most comprehensive video showcasing the real issues I never even thought about. I am in no way a bow user and I hate it do to the skilless playstyles you mentioned that people would click away from. I honestly found this trying to find a hynra video of a guy I saw using a bow in a way i could respect. This video has given me a new appreciation for bows and the issues that plague PVP.
My Titan fashion is peak
Didnt Bungie say at one point that they can now make separate changes to weapons in PvE & PvP?
Of course. Ever since Lorentz separation of Wallhacks between PvP and PvE.
They simply refuse to bc "they want the game to feel consistent between modes" as if that matters when players and programmed enemies behave completely differently
Great vid dug hit the nail on the head especially with the hit box%/arrow bending shenanigans not enough ppl talk about that 👍
bro you did not have to open with atlantis, won me over faster than any other destiny youtube video i have seen so far.
Should have just been a specific pvp nerf to wish ender damage to make it 1 crit 1 body and instead of a 15% overall bow nerf. Nerf the body shot only the same way they did with every other primary. That way bows would still 1 crit 1 body, wish ender would still be cheesy with wall hacks but would have the drawback of the slow drawtime without the extra damage. Also redo the oathkeepers perk, no more infinife perfect draws for hunters.
This I agree with completely. I’d love for bungie to make a change to special ammo GL’s too that encourages a direct impact play-style over the current Disruption Break swap style that they’re shoving down our throats. It’s no fun using a GL like a free win button like it is to camp with a bow. I want them to shift towards more skill with bows and GL’s again, but until then, I’ll be suffering alongside ya.
Love this video the edits in the beginning were amazing ❤😂 But also just for spelling all this out because man is it frustrating to have our play style destroyed just because of outliers such as wishender AND to always be hearing that bows are the crazy broken especially because of the double body 😅 Anywho, I really hope Bungie does decide to implement some of these changes that the community has been talking about for ages.... They literally just have to do a quick search and have beautiful methods to implement that would make bows unique but that prolly would be a lot of work for a weapon that got crazy nerfed when it only accounted for 5.7% of the primary play.... Yeesh
Especially for spelling this out. Most pvp users hate bows now and they won't even wanna hear us out.
very well put-together video mazo
As an aggro ("type 2") bow player, you hit the nail on the head. I don't like swaps, I like jumping around like a goblin and snagging kills out of nowhere. I am faster than the letho swap when I peek shoot. Having to draw 3-4 times to secure a kill is RIDICULOUS 🤣🤣 the crucible strike team just proved they can't do math.
Amazing video, and I think those changes are actually genius ngl
Like everyone saw how the wish ender "nerf" wouldnt affect draw cancel in anyway and bungie thought its good enough
They should have given bows damage falloff instead of reducing base damage
If youtubers were bungie developers, this game would not be the same.
if anyone other then bungie were the devs the game it wouldnt be the same. water is indeed made out of water.
Why am I starting with one shot on my glaive bungie?
They must know
Don't worry they know. The spokesperson in the video addressed it on twitter.
@@mazokumo link? Is it just a glitch
@@kristophershephard7359 just a glitch, yeah.
twitter.com/Mercules904/status/1765100317136331119?t=0X1VnLbNVC_2Aip5GeZcCw&s=19
@@mazokumo Thank you
Why this didnt get more views, yours points are literally spot on. Never been more in an agreement with a video in my life.
Because 95% players hate bows
CammyCakes face when mercules was talking is so funny 3:44
Yeah he was like no my trace bow combo :'(
I went flawless this weekend and it has easily been one of the most boring flawless runs I have ever done in my life. the changes made essentially everyone sit in the back of the map with double primary because using special was no longer worth it. We have essentially regressed back to vanilla d2 meta atp. Now no one is even attempting to look at bows because why use a bow when you can just hit someone from crazy ranges with a pulse,ar,scout, etc.
great video big man
I love using bows as a primary weapon, and I hate these nerfs because it doesn’t solve the problem of wishender and hotswapping but instead directly hurts bows entirely making them barely useful now
Atlantis was a goated movie
Great video, I hope Bungie sees it and acts accordingly. I think they might be aware the nerf went too far, judging by how Merc was already talking about that possibility before the patch even went life.
What boggles my mind is that just like before with snipers, they nuked the skillful aggressive playstyle and enforced the lame back of the map laning. The very thing that is the most annoying to play against both with snipers and bows.
Wishender and LeMon along with Oathkeepers and people crouching invis in the back of the map is what made people hate bows. Now Bungie jumps in with a hard nerf (because of a 1,3 % rise in usage no less 🤦♀️), making all bows pretty much obsolete... except for Wishender and LeMon along with Oathkeepers because that way both can still easily 1c1b while also benefitting from a faster drawtime / infinite perfect draw, which should never have worked with exotic perks to begin with imo.
Without Oathkeepers the perfect draw window for poison damage on LeMon is ok and requires good timing though Wishender's wallhacks were and still are rediculous.
But that Bungie does not grasp how to properly use bows already showed in the Oathkeepers update to "encourage a less passive playstyle" by giving it more damage on shorter draws. You need to hold / overhold that draw so insanely long it took me forever to even see that UI thing pop up since I just use Oathkeepers for the AE and drawtime benefits, not the infinite hold. Like in what world is that a short draw to increase damage?
What a Awesome video, entertaining and covers a lot of great points, this is your style mazo I want to see so much more stuff like this
Man D2 sounds like hell rn. If i hadn't quit a year back i would've definitely quit now, especially due to the the special ammo changes. I never liked using primary weapons because not did they feel weak, especially in the higher level content where even ads require almost a full mag to kill just one, but most of the fun weapons were special and not primary.
Crucible is done
my personal nerf for bows is to have the arrow turn into a projectile after a certain distance [depending on the frame kind of like draw poundage]
pve 50 to 120, and pvp 25 to 75, meters depending on the frame and excluding possible heavy/special ammo bows.
speed of the projectile same speed as the fastest rocket in game at the moment [I would use hammer units but I don't know enough about them in d2 yet.]
This is actually how they used to be and I liked it so much more. It’s crazy cause after they made all full draw shots hitscan in Wish, we saw the usage spike and crappy passive meta
bows arrows r alr a projectile
That's an interesting idea!
@@daedae369they said they did but it wasn’t the case. Plenty of us bow users tested this out. Perfect draw didn’t make them hitscan. That update never happened even though they put it in the twab that it did lmao
alright for those saying its still a projectile.
A arrow moving at the hyper speed of light seems like hitscan to me.
Just thank you for this video
Intro made me wanna watch that movie again lol
Does Splice weaken like void? If so radiant hunter plus a splice bow would be nice. Other wise only lethophobia will be the play with hot swaps….
Actual bow users were a rarity.
Subtract wishender, which honestly, slowest draw time and I never really found wallhacks all that great. If you've done enough pvp you pretty much know wherr the enemy is based on radar, pretty much know what they are doing based on previous games.
I loved my biting winds with swash for the occasional one tap. Now? Bows are dead.
Sad. Got here after trying my new bow in crucible and finding out i cannot play agro anymore. Over the course of a few games i degraded to line-peeking with Lemonarque to be of any use...
Interesting Merc saying what bows are intended to do is plank away from the back of the map. I'm guessing if that's where they want them, they wont do anything further but... really bows should be a viable weapon on their own and that playstyle does not allow them to be viable on their own, plain and simple. I think a simple buff would be to reduce the base draw times again so that all bows can be closer to 1sec ttk base - there are scouts after all. Also interesting note - whistlers whim with kill clip can still 1 head 1 body once you get a kill. Not sure how easy it is to get the kill, but am gonna start playing around with it
They already are at 1sec ttk. Lightweights are at 1s, while Precisions are at 1.1+ seconds, if you max out the reload on both archetypes of bows.
If you don't max out reload, ttk grows to 1.2 and 1.3
@@mazokumo that’s perfectly rolled lightweights or precisions with AC right? I’m talking at base so that for lightweights, draw time would actually 1 sec or even a bit south, and percs can bring it down way south of that if perfectly rolled and optimized. Or, if you’re good with 1 sec you could spec into accuracy or stability to prevent flinch on the follow up shot. This would also make other percs like moving target or killing wind more viable as well.
@@ghosty5424 you said TTK, and Drawtime is not Time To Kill. TTK is composed of Drawtime and Reload. I always assume 576ms Drawtime for precisions, and 500ms Drawtime for Lightweights, otherwise they're not competitive. I don't care about AT that's extra.
Currently Bows kill slower than any weapon in the game thanks to that, which is fine since they deal the most damage.
@@mazokumo yep definitely draw time, reload and nocking speed as you pointed out in another of your videos 😉 but.. im definitely talking overall ttk being 1 sec or really just a bit south of 1 sec for lightweights at base so that other things can be done to help our follow up shot. Despite doing the most damage, we also have the highest obstacles to hitting optimal.. never mind the mental stack of draw timing which over time definitely gets easier.. let’s consider what happens every time I have to duck into cover which puts a smg player on the flank immediately as I try to prepare the next shot or allows a second player to get in position to team shot. The extra dmg in a single shot model is only valuable if it can clean up a 120 or 140 shot which it can’t now. You’re currently gonna have an easier time with a scout (let alone a box breathing one). Lightweight scout can put out like 190hp in maybe .6 while our single follow up shot of 130 is longer than 1sec? Or 117 at just north of 1 sec without ac? Make it make sense lol
I feel like wish ender should reward the truesight after your first kill so you need to work for it, but it's still holding value.
Anywhere I can get a hq picture of the Bungie bow smash logo?
In about 6 hours I'll be home. You can join the Cardinal Dive discord and remind me to send it to you later.
discord.com/invite/Q8FpJJZqz6
@@mazokumo cool cool, you rock!
Outside of Wish Ender and blinting, I didn't really have much of an issue with most bows. Considering they took away Khepri's short use of true sight/wall hacks away (for those unaware, it initially allowed you to melee or use trapper's ambush to trigger true sight whereas now you have to have the enemy walk into your snare bomb) when it wasn't even high in usage rates but has let Wish Ender continue to hang onto wall hacks baffles me. Not to mention they talk about wanting to clear up the confusion behind why players die but I'm pretty sure Wish Ender's damage still procs extremely delayed to the actual shot. Where is the sense in this??
First up, great video.
Really high quality and one of the best, if not the best destiny video I've seen in a while.
Some questions and opinions on the bow situation.
If you make the perfekt draw time smaller like hynra suggested, wouldn't you just be able to spam reload draws to indefinitely hold the draw anyways and extend the perfect draw?
Sure that's a small skillgap, but not really hard enough to outweigh the benefits.
I think the changes bows received were an emergency way to get rid of the main problem, which is a primary weapon Sniper rifle.
Yes you can still use them as a Sniper rifle supetitute, but you're not oneshot to almost anything in the game after just one shot anymore.
It's easier to overwhelm bow players now, due to shotguns and fusions having way less availability and the rounds you play against bows, rare as they may be, have become way more enjoyable, because the game doesn't just grind to a halt anymore.
Wishender being the only outlier still.
This might have killed the agressive playstile for now, which don't get me wrong I hate that such a cool way of playing had to die for lanecamping andy's sins, but I hope that in the future they'll revisit this to implement a better fix.
I espetially enjoyed the IB bow with swash and getting oneshot sprees.
As a side note this also happened with sniper rifle bodyshot DMG.
Mechabre could one tap in the body with swash, which made a uniquely agressive Sniper playstile viable, now that's gone.
I think one way they could help is by increasing swash and Adrenaline on Bows and Snipes specifically to like 100% where they onetap in the head again.
Might be broken but I doupt it since it requires a kill and of an ability at that, which is way less common now.
It's not "simply just" and you're not indefinitely holding the draw. Please try to put into practice in multiple scenarios such as movement, Strafing, jumping, getting flinched, etc.
Introduction or development of incremental minor mechanics are meant to add up and combine into making a weapon balanced. After enhancing the perfect draw mechanic the way I described it, we can move on from there and if it's not enough, introduce more incremental roadblocks. A little something Extra to introduce difficulty or delay in maintaining full damage is something you can see everywhere in the game.
Having to correct your aim for recoil with full auto weapons, having to adjust for flinch, delay in engagement due to your aim being punched to the ground after landing from greater heights, even the very action of having to reload after an Ammount of damage or time, are all incremental balance choices meant to make it harder for you to slay, and have to pace your engagements properly. We haven't even mentioned that bow headshot into halfdraw hald-damage bodyshot, which was one of the most skillful things you could do with a bow that requires you to be within 25 meters and below (because the arrow becomes a projectile that has travel time and an arched trajectory, and can be heavily affected by flinch, movement and hitreg), is no longer possible for aggressive playstyles, which is something I wished could be developed or encouraged further.
As I mentioned in the video, the perfect draw window is barely fucking anything at the moment. Legit it might as well not exist, when the difference in damage is 5-7. Can you even imagine if that window/difference would instead be 100 damage? Again, I explain this in the video at 13:43. From 150 damage let it drop to 50 damage in the span of a few milliseconds, like the perfect draw window ATM is barely a hindrance and you don't think much of it because of that. You simply haven't really considered exactly how that would feel, especially in high level play where every second counts, and you having to redraw every half a second can be the meaning between you getting a kill or delaying your kill by 0.5 seconds because you had to draw-cancel to deal full damage again, and risk dying.
For the record I never liked or enjoyed bow oneshotting tech I think it never should've existed in the first place. Even if it's an ability kill reward, I still think it shouldn't be in the game and that is one thing I like having been changed.
@@mazokumo Thanks for the reply.
That's fair, I didn't really think about the part of the perfect draw in the more mobile/agressive playstyle, for that it's definetely a really heavy skillgap the way you described in your video.
My thoughts were more on the sitting in a lane and waiting for a head to peek out playstyle.
I might be underestimating it from my point of view, because to me the reload cancel draw isn't difficult at all, but I also don't know how perfect draw would feel with the changes you suggested.
I just can't perfectly imagine it and the part I can imagine doesn't seem difficult, mind you for a passive playstyle.
But I definetely agree with your suggested change of the perfect drawtime.
I just hope that bungie will keep updating the PvP sandbox as fast as they've been doing so far since the new Sandbox launched.
Maybe they'll come around quicker to such stuff.
Not liking the oneshot tech is personal preference I guess.
I just thought it's risky/not easy enough to prock since it's a specific kill activation and thus enabled some cool playstyles that are uniquely viable and fun in 6s, but I also get why people wouldn't like it.
@@delta_1632 like I said if it's not enough they could expand on it. Idk if you noticed but people who hold lanes, tend to hold the arrow in the bow without draw-cancelling extremely often. Regardless of your experience, I've seen people play that way, and this change could help mitigate the damage a lot. And it's not just random people who swap to a bow, but some bow users as well.
@@mazokumo That's fair. Would be at least a start in the right direction.
Man, I came back and found out they nerfed bows just now. I played the aggro play style in Crucible, and was more careful in trials. But this nerf makes me feel stupid running around with a bow, it is an inferior weapon, why would I use it.
I don't think special ammo nerf was that bad. I generally dislike special ammo weapons, definitely the 1hk ones. For the longest time, I used to play bow only just fine. Didn't even use my 2nd weapon slot (I used it for leveling up weapons lol).
This video is done masterfully. Thankyou for this spectacular content.
As an Atlantis fan that intro was amazing.
I've been trying to learn bow for a few months now, haven't gotten it down. Hopefully I can at least finish my video before they do this
I really hope Bungie realizes they just re-created Destiny 2 Year 1 via a "Go Slow" update. And I would know Y1 PvP: I got Redrix's Claymore solo and played all year long - despised almost every hour of it. I still don't see the positives to this update after playing hours of 6v6 (the worst offender), Comp, and Trials this week all solo. Made it Flawless twice (Mercy then Wealth) and it was terrible. If anything, it made most pain points from before the update that much worse.
I honestly think this sandbox would greatly benefit from making Special Ammo like how it was before. That would patch up a lot of pain points that this update brought.
and Le Monarque is still a damn Nightmare too....
great vid
As someone who loved using bows since the start of Forsaken, I have to admit that even Aim assist on bows really kill it, especially if another opponent runs in your sights, that it tracks the guy that runs through it.
Using bows is a skill 👌 and I miss it 😢
Right now trying to play bow in pvp is hurting my mental health
Lion Rampants
Real bow mains use the bow to get the finalblow not the second weapon. but we are getting nerfed because of bow swapping randoms
hit me with that lemmino soundtrack
I always used bows (not wishender), and was starting to get better with dueling and stuff, but with how the sandbox is now with teamshotting and snowballing with special ammo, it feels horrible. Was getting better at the game with weapons I liked, just for them to nerf them and be subjected to an autorifle/handcannon meta.
Bow players have been given the sniper treatment lollll suffer with us in silence
that intro was priceless
20 mins where i was glued to the screen. Fucking well made!
It's funny because I was doing Trials and some dude was bashing me about using a bow saying I'm not getting anything but I threw on adept mod and had explosive head and I got top score and he stayed quiet
What a fucking video. Couldn't have said it better myself. ❤❤❤
Trinity Ghoul is op Whit the Event Scout +Kaskade
holy shit. first time I find people that actually use bows and arent quick swap bitches. actually cultured people. good fucking video!!! personally, wouldnt mind a 1 crit 1 body requirement for precisions. but the two crit requirement and thus making it almost always a three shot, over 2 second kill. it feels AWFUL rn. hope bungie figures this out quick. im hating the "Support" only bow play shit. literally cant duel rn. they need to figure out how to make it harder to swap to things like HCs so they can stop fucking with our swap speeds to shottys. its been so annoying. anyways, good video!!!
This is a great video
im edging to this rn
great video
Now its just a game for cronus users.
I stopped playing right before this, lord they killed my baby bow .
NOOOO
They had their day. Its weird tho it seems like it’s a 450 AR meta now
I have a good feel for ARs for a while now. been watching cammycakes build crafting with them and I have quite a few saved in my vault, some with hundreds on the tracker
Thank goodness man. My double smg main is still goated.
how is your radar so dark?
Look in your settings in-game
also I never really understood how bows are a advantage with two shot. That just means it's already not an awp. Also for people who say you can peek with bows, you can peak with hand canons too or almost any gun no?
the point is that you have to peekshoot less times, puting yourself at a disatvantage less times than other weapons essentially. But against good players, repeaking the same lane is throwing regardless of weapon or skill
@@mazokumo yeah but that difference is learnt covered from the skill. If you push a bow player it's harder for him to adjust than is it for a regular gun? If talk is really about skill.
Isn't there players who do the exact same with other guns?
my point is: just because you see most kills on a weapon, doesn't mean it's the best. It could just mean it's the favourite weapon of the best player.
Meta shifted from passive wish ender 120 w/ threadlings doing the work to all around passive everyone standing shoulder to shoulder
Completely criminal what they’d do to bows.
As an aggressive bow player for 5 years, I’m utterly gutted for what they did. Completely unwarranted.
It was very warranted
Lol funnily enough my AR pisses people off. I just got a Prosecutor from Prophecy and I was using In supremacy two nights ago absolutely dumping on people cuz I swear my shit dropped god roll. It’s got 90 range golden tricorn and zen moment. And I had people hunting me for the rest of each match. I can understand why though. that Rifle is so cracked I’d say it borders on god roll If it isn’t already a god roll. I out shot people using hand cannons and was dropping people so fast they didn’t have time to get into full shotgun range before I drilled them. Not gonna lie I’m feeling pretty hot this season cuz Bungie might make me go knock all the rust off and hop back into crucible again. It’s been a while maybe I need to be that guy again.
Wish ender should be straight up disabled in PvP at this point
I’m just gonna use a bow and DMT or Long Arm combo or the disruption break bow with a side arm. And I will go to my grave with Hush in my arms.
o7
Lumina’s buff Stil procs disruption break ;) u only need a kill with lumina buff someone now your lethophobia can proc disrupt on a headshot. Proceed to secure the kill with lumina. It’s definitely chainable too
@@OmegaDerrick absolute Chad. Thank you
@@CrimsonThunder_ hell yeah! Ill keep on testing what old combos still work or what new ones work now. Bow swapping is still a thing. N its still the best way to go with a bow. Bow with high impact pulse secures the kill with one burst of crits too. Crucible high impact with quickdraw is a perfect candidate. Bow thunderclap is still a thing as well on titans. Lemon with a lightweight smg still melts too, bow + dmt seems good. Bow plus punchin out sidearm with quickdraw is good too. Bow + glaive is gone. Hvnt tested bow arianas yet with the ammo changes. Will do that today n see if a gutshot bow can secure the kill with it
@@OmegaDerrick let fking go! So many good combos. Glad they’re still good.
Why reduce bow damage at all? It still has the longest time to kill.....
beautiful story telling for a weapons patch for d2 no less
Was the bow changes only PvP affected or did they need PvE too. They have a habit of doing that
Just PvP
So we going back to the dark ages of double primary… yeah Imma get both new adepts, and forget about pvp for idk how long, maybe forever
this is a banger for sure mazo
I like some of the ideas, but not all. BOWS ARE NOT FUSION RIFLES! Range and damage falloff, fine. However, the draw mechanics are what make bows bows. Something like a perfect draw shouldn't exist. A full draw is a full draw and you are supposed to be able to hold a bow for 3 secs, especially when drawing takes time. That's how bows work in real life. Otherwise you might as well delete bows from the game entirely.
Well *looks at my trusty true prophcy and monarque* time to do some damage
The main prob is Oathkeepers that promote camping. Also the new dmg profiles for bows could remain the same if they buff all base draw time speeds for bows. Reduce draw time stat around 200 points to all bows. So precisions would be 376 draw time and lightweights would be 300 draw time so forth. This would make them more competitively in the new sandbox. And if they are still shit reduce another 100 draw time to make them even faster at drawing 🙃
The faster you make them draw or shoot, the more they become "handcannons". I'm just gonna use handcannons at that point.
@@mazokumo at this point already its better to use handcannons than a bow though. Either way we go about it, handcannons will be the better choice still.
I thought bows were fine minus the ability to bow swap almost instantaneously which is just a problem with mechanics in general being exploited.
wowzers what a video
The story telling here was goated