Why Honda DCT is so bad for Beginners?
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 03. 2023
- Why an automatic transmission motorcycle, Honda DCT in particular, is bad for a beginner rider.
BEGINNER rider video course: moto-control.shop/product/mot...
ADVANCED rider video course ("Training Routine"): moto-control.shop/product/tra...
Want to support this channel?
you can join: / @motocontrolen
or support channel on Patreon: / motocontrol
Facebook group for beginner riders: / 690597518731645
🏍️🏍️🏍️
On Moto Control channel you will find videos about motorcycles, motorcycle riding techniques, tips & tricks and online motorcycle training for beginner and advanced riders!
A little info about me. My name is Andrei Bodrov, originally I'm from Moscow, Russia, and now I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Back in Moscow I was a motorcycle instructor and creator of Moto Control Beginner & Advanced motorcycle rider courses, which quickly became the most popular courses in Moscow (well, at least the advanced one😁). My advanced training course makes emphasis on slow speed riding techniques at first (such as good clutch and throttle control, proper riding posture, proper use of vision, etc.), then proceeds to more advanced techniques (such as aggressive braking, trail braking, maximal lean angle). The course incorporates a lot of exercises from DOSAF slow speed riding (similar to police rodeo like motorcycle training in USA), braking and cornering exercises and motogymkhana style riding. And now, since I actively learn English - I decided to post some useful videos for both your and mine practice!😉
🏍️🏍️🏍️
Since everyone writes this, it's necessary, I suppose 🤷, so here we go. Disclaimer: Ride at your own risk, you are responsible for your own safety. Me, Andrey Bodrov and my channel, Moto Control disclaim any liability incurred in connection with the use of riding techniques from this channel. Use common sense, wear full protective gear and ride in a safe and predictable manner!
#motorcycle #motorcycles #moto - Auta a dopravní prostředky
You are wrong about DCT in city traffic, it is super convenient. I would agree with you about certain low speed tricks on a parking lot but(!) they have nothing to do with (low speed) city riding. Let's be honest, you don't do figure 8's and small radius circles on streets. My NC750X does low speed city riding perfectly. With all due respect, saying that DCT is not a good choice for a city sounds ridiculous. That's what it is designed for.
Honda DCT is a GREAT transmission. I do not want to miss it anymore. the NC750SD DCT is riding and shifting pertfectly under all natural conditions. Riding between the cones is not. I would go for the DCT on all models where it is available, honestly.
don't listen to this guy comrades - switching from manual to DCT was the best thing I did in my motorcycle career. It's like 2007 and moving from the keyboard based telephones to iPhone. No useless buttons you don't need. Here's the same. No useless clutch or manual shifting. No useless downgrading gears on the red lights. You just use the right hand to give some throttle and you go and stop whenever you want. Easy and it works like a charm. Trust me - without all of these shifthing stuff you focus more on the joy of riding and you are more aware of your surroundings meaning you are safe. And that is perhaps the most important argument in favor of DCT. It takes the shifting gears out of the picture, out of your mind so you can put that mind of yours into something else. And that's your safety. Take care comrades.
moving to DCT was the best thing that happened to me in my motorcycling life. Touring, dense city traffic, commuting, Alps - biking has become so much more enjoyable! I understand your critics with the DCT, but it's nothing you can't master with just a little practice :)
Completely agree. I still have a Burgman 650 purely for the simplicity of twist and go touring and the ease of 2UP riding. I'd absolutely get an Africa Twin DCT as my next bike and not care about manual again. If they ever resurrect the Pan European with a DCT, I'd have my dream bike.
@@muhfreedom2479 I believe NT1100 is Honda's proposition to former Pan European riders.
Flipping gears is incredibly fun… if I wanted to bypass gears, I’d go electric
Yes and if you have a bad left foot and left hand as I do the dct is motorcycle freedom yes dct is intresting to master but my crf 1000 is ezy for me to manover its oul about rider practice off road sliding is just excellent ,and dct is quicker that any man our woman's hand and foot can possibly react lol just dont get wisky throttled with n ok steg pegs to cach you in full dct mod standing up bahaha then you find out haw to Dodg trees.
@@muhfreedom2479 and you can get lowering kits verius drops you don't have to be 6 feet tall as thay talling you , im 6 foot and still the 2018 A T Adventure Sports caches me on uneven off road , but yes a excellent bike the dct is .
You should rename this video to "Why DCT is so bad for gymkhana" :)
For "real world" DCT is wonderful IMHO
Slow speed riding is not gymkhana, actually for gymkhana DCT is not that bad at all😁
Your point is completely valid if the reason you bought your motorcycle is for doing complex patterns around cones in a parking lot.
My 50 year old friend was getting his licence and learning to ride, discovered DCT and never looked back. Now he's stuck with Honda, but doesn't care, says "why should I want to shift manually if I can just chill and enjoy the scenery?"
That's exactly what I think about my bike; yes, I am stuck with Honda but I do not care because I like it.
Did your frend spend a lot of time taking his eyes off the scenery to shift before DCT?
@@VasyaIvanovichPupkin 😂
Honda is a good think to be stuck with 😊
@@StringBanger we all know that, but as a new rider (at 50) that discovered that DCT exists, he doesn't feel like he needs the extra work of getting proficient at shifting
I have a CTX with DCT - after 55+ years of riding, I find the DCT is an enhancement to the riding. Slow speed maneuvers are no issue with a bit of trail braking. After a year of living with this bike, I can't see going back to a manual transmission - this shifts faster, no missed neutral, no left hand fatigue in heavy traffic, exact control on the shifting in Manual Mode with the paddle shifters.
Old age has wrecked my clutch and so DCT is a life saver. Using the paddles to override for downshifts is great fun! Don't have any problem with low speed manouevering but I have been riding for nearly sixty years on and off...
”In real life” there is people who are hurt in hand and fingers that are helped with dct.
In real life there are also people wit hno limbs that DCT won't help. No one denies the benefits for users wuth medical conditions. What's your point?
The simplest reason I don't get one is that I like shifting.
Would you say that you're a shifty character? 😆
You can shift up & down on DCT & it's actually really smooth. If you're moving at speed you can either shift while in automatic mode eg to get engine braking or shift down for an overtake, or you can put it into manual mode & take care of all the shifting - it's just over on the left handlebar. Because of the dual clutch there's no shift in the weight of the bike when you shift gear, no clonking heads with your pillion. That's actually really nice.
I prefer to rev bombs through tunnels, it sounds beautiful
@@funyun Thanks for reminding me I haven't visited my favorite tunnel yet this year
@@Skiamakhos Everyone knows that automatic gearboxes (most modern ones at least) allow you to override the gears manualy. No one cares about it and 95% of the time you dirve any automatic in "D" even if you hate them. Because that is not the point of a stickshift gearbox. The joy is in acheiving the smooth shift YOURSELF!!!
I can manouver slow speed both with manual trans and auto CVT no problem. Manual clutch is indeed has much more control for certain conditions but, 90% of the time I ended up choosing my CVT scooter for super crowded Indonesian traffic. My passengers also appreciate auto trans more. My manual trans bikes are left only for specific recreational touring when I want nothing but riding a bike.
Don't bash the DCT. There's still a friction zone at 1-10 mph by using the throttle - it just needs a lot of practice and precision. The only problem with the DCT is that it's incorrectly marketed as a "beginner friendly" technology but in fact it's for experienced riders who have a good understanding of shifting and have gone through the manual transmission first. As for Honda's claims, they're not accurate. Yes it can stall (very rarely, once in every 20,000 miles), and when it does it will be ugly. Yes it can clunk when the DCT is upshifting and you have a car brake in front of you so you need to brake during the upshift. Other than that, it's a joy to ride especially in the city.
DCT is perfect for people that are handicap that prevents them from pulling in the clutch or using the foot shifter and also DCT is great for heavy traffic.
Right on i have a disability love the crf 1000L DCT .
After years away from motorcycling I decided to get back on two wheels. After trying out a number of bikes I ended up choosing an 2021 NC DCT. It’s been nothing but an incredible decision. Definitely a bit of a transition from a manual clutch and you have to practice those slow speed drills for sure. But the bike has performed flawlessly, the shifts are smooth, it eats miles while only sipping at the gas and it sounds great (always a bonus)! Why not try it if you have interest….you may like it!
Same here, bought a NT1100 DCT and it's a breeze. Been riding bikes all manual on the road for 25 years, for touring my DCT is so much more enjoying
I use all 3 transmission CVT 5yrs, DCT 2yrs and manual 25yrs… and yes I have 3 bikes… IMO you just saying that DCT is more pain than manual because you are not using it “Daily” and not much experience on one. Everything just takes practice mate just like we are in manual… at first DCT kinds of weird but if you take time with it learn how it works and practice with it even at super low speed at super heavy traffic and filtering all day DCT is a godsend … only one thing I don’t like with the DCT you cannot rev bomb it at every tunnel which is I really love to do on a manual… ride smart and let us all be open minded🫶
The DCT is the best thing since the automobile automatic transmission. I had to learn to ride it just like I learned to ride a manual transmission. For slow speed control put the DCT in manual mode and first gear. Practice lean angle, throttle control and rear brake control. I had to practice with the DCT just like I did with the manual bike, but once you get you got it.
Apparently this guy forgot you can switch to manual mode on a DCT if you need more low speed control.
Manual mode on the DCT (I have an NC750X DCT) does not magically make a clutch lever appear. This mode just takes the control of when-to-shift away from the computer, and puts it in your fingertips with the paddle controls. In other words, switching to Manual Mode makes absolutely no difference when you're only using first gear. Moto Control is correct in that you have less fine control. The computer is controlling your clutch, not you. Having said that, I can honestly say after 16k miles (mostly lane-splitting in California) that I have absolutely no complaints about slow speed control on my 750. My slow speed skill level is no where near expert, so I can see where an expert might take issue with the finer points of the bike's slow speed control. I would highly recommend DCT for anyone. I love it!
I'd like to introduce you to something called a scooter.
automatic gearing is great!
as you said in the begining of the video:"get used to it"
Yea, this is what most gear trained bike rider always says. But for those who have only ridden automatic scooters, an automatic dual transmission motorcycle is a dream come true. Thank you for your training videos
Hi dear People I totally disagree DCT is great.
What's important to me is that every time I catch myself riding my Honda NC750X DCT model 2021, I smile from ear to ear.
I am relaxed and enjoy riding my motorcycle.
It is important that you are in the correct driver mode.
You have 3 options Sport, Standard and then Rain mode.
And a 4th that you can program freely.
In the city with a lot of traffic I often use the rain mode.
The motorcycle is then easy to handle, even at low speed.
You could program the fourth mode especially for these slow speeds.
But it all starts with practice getting to know your bike and trying things out in a place where you can practice safely.
Stay safe and enjoy the ride.
The advantages far outweigh the actual (almost) non existent disadvantages. I love my NC-DCT.
You clearly haven't ridden one for a good length of time. One day in traffic was enough for me to be convinced.
got my first motorcycle 5 months ago, at the tender age of 60. learned to drive on a 4 speed datsun pickup but drove automatics ever since. never having had a motorcycle (thanks mom and wife) i had no desire for a clutch or the constant need to shift. the rebel 1100 checked every box i needed it to so i bought one. i have used the manual mode as well as the pre-programmed modes and don't feel a loss of controll or a disconnect. i can shift up or down just like a any bike, just don't have to pull the clutch. add to that the cruise control and i'm a happy cruiser (camper)
Like your post, you are an inspiration!
Im 40 and trying to learn how to ride a motorbike, just purchased a pitbike 3 days ago with a semi automatic transmission😂😂😂
Test riding or occasional use of DCT transmission is different than owning one for a period of time. I bought several motorcycles that felt great on a test ride but living with it, wasn't pleasing. Yes it is more difficult to do slow maneuver (friction zone control) but the benefit far outweighs them in city traffic. I live in a city with 10 million in population and is much easier to filter thru standstill traffic than standard clutch motorcycles. I owned several DCT Honda motorcycles starting with VFR 1200 since 2010 and logged over 400,000 KM traveling in all traffic and weather conditions and prefer them over standard clutch. I own BMW S1000RR & Yamaha FJR 1300A but Honda Integra 750(DCT) gets used about 90% of the time.
Isn't taking time to get to know your bike and practice slow speed maneuvers part of the hobby and fun of riding a motorcycle?🤔✌🏽
Unless I have some health condition that prevents me from shifting, I'd never move to DCT. Shifting is so much more engaging and enables much greater control. And no, I don't find shifting annoying in heavy stop & go traffic because you won't find me there!
I have the exact same amount of control as to what gear I want to be in, at any point, as any other manual bike
I was of exactly the same opinion until I tried it. Now given the choice, I would have DCT every time.
The absolute king of cruising... . DCT 🔥
Once I drove an automatic car, the silly macho idea of manual disappeared. Once I drove DCT on a bike, I’ll never go back to gears. Not having to change gears dozens of time each kilometre. Keep me signed up.
@@ryannoronha4427 just get a 1000cc+ bike. Never have to leave first gear
Great video and explanation about riding the DCT. Disclosure, I'm now riding my third Africa Twin DCT, a 2021 Adventure Sports. I did own a 2016 AT clutch model. I am older, and suffer from arthritis in my hands. Being retired, I do ride a lot, approximately 25,000 kms per year, mostly short rips. Clutching repeatedly causes my hands to ache, so the DCT is the remedy... True, low speed manouerving may be more difficult, but you may have to use additional real brake to offset this anomoly.
Operating the clutch lever and gear shifter are part of the fun of riding a motorcycle for me, so I hope there will always be this option. But I can see from reading the comments that a lot of people really love the automatic. Options are good.
If you think shifting is part of the fun, then good for you! I'm happy that you got a bike that brings you joy. YOU DO YOU, but respect your fellow bikers who have a diferent opinion. I love my DCT. It's the best bike purchase I ever made.
“Slipping under high load”. I currently have a dct wing and I too have found slow speed manoeuvres more challenging. Having said that, the dct is the bike I currently have and I plan to be as proficient on this bike as possible. IMO, whether you are using a traditional clutch or a dct model your above statement from an earlier video is the key. That is, avoiding slipping of the clutch under high load. With a dct, there are a few things to avoid clutch slipping under load. 1. Use first gear in manual mode. 2. Be conscious of rear brake usage. 3. Focus upon using momentum aka bike speed to assist your manoeuvres. Your feedback and thoughts on this comment would be appreciated.
Yes, that's pretty much what I said in the video 😊
You are completely right that slow speed work is a different new skill you need to learn with DCT. After 30 years riding I lost my left leg above the knee, and the use of my right hand fingers in an accident in 2008. I first passed my re-examination test on a moto-guzzi convert (torque-converter automatic, mine with side car attached). Ten years later I had the possibility for a 2-wheel exam, and passed that test on a modified NC750X (slightly lowered, gas and front brake on the left bar and DCT). Demonstrating slow speed control and supporting the bike on the prosthetic side, is the focus of that test, and there were challenging exercises to prove that ability. Despite being an experienced rider, I found it hard to handle rear brake trailing especially with the Honda's very light and twitchy throttle. Also after ten years without leaning the bike, slow speed tight turns were (again) a skillset I had to rediscover. But everything you said about "a few hours training" works for this too! You are right: If beginner thinks riding will be easier with DCT, this proves that it isn't *always* the case. But overall DCT (like ABS) is still a good thing, as it takes some burden off the new rider, allowing more attention to focus on the traffic situation. I'd recommend that beginners continue to practice low speed manoevering and emergency braking regularly, especially in their first year. But don't give up on DCT without trying it. Its actually pretty cool.
Great advice, just got this bike a week ago and your words are very encouraging!
@@GoToPhx You'll love it. The more you ride it the nicer it gets.
i salute your sticking with bike riding after your accident. That cannot be easy. i think many people would have given up. Very nice to see success in your case.
@@ermesborgnino4704 Thankyou for these kind words. Overcoming challenges is a key part of the recovery trajectory for anyone who has a traumatic experience. Facing down the daemons is necessary step in reaching and demonstrating a healthy mental equilibrium, which (for me) meant restoring the fighting spirit. Accepting anything less than full recovery involves unwise compromises with 'victim mentality' and that will kill you more effectively than any injuries can. Instead of instant oblivion, you become a sorry witness to your own slow psychological demise. Anybody who tries to tell me I can't do something because of my handicap had better watch out because I am not having any of that! Only I decide. It hasn't made me a better person, but I don't care. I had to take the driving licencing authority to the highest court in the land to shame them into changing the system. I won the minds, but lost the legal case (on the technicality that an idiot with a qualification had an opinion that carried more legal weight than my view). It took longer, and others had to add their voice to the argument, but eventually the state did recognize that they were completely in the wrong and corrected the injustice. Its a shameful disgrace (for them) that they did not acknowledge or compensate me (and others) for 10 lost years when I was unable to participate fully in my hobby and passion. I can celebrate the victory anyway, every time I go out. Sweet.
I started off on a scooter a few years ago and later went with a manual transmission motorcycle. I loved the scooter in the city, but it just didn't have the power needed for 55+ mph. And, let's face it - scooters aren't that cool. I miss the CVT transmission and I've been looking at a DCT Honda. I like the control that a clutch offers, but not having to shift in stop-and-go traffic during hours-long traffic jams is something I miss from a scooter.
burgman 400 90 miles per hr ask me how i know
I would really like to buy a DCT, the problem is, I don't want to break the bank with a Honda Goldwing, I don't want chain drive and certainly don't want a cruiser. If Honda decides to put a 1200cc on the NC and a driveshaft, then I'll consider buying one. Goldwing's don't appeal to me anyway.
I really like your videos, but have to completely agree with the previous poster. The DCT is fantastic! I believe the complete opposite to be true.from what you are saying about the DCT. I find slow speed with the DCT much easier then with a clutch (and I have spent quite a bit of time on bikes with both). I never burned through the back brake when practicing slow sped maneuvers (it doesn't take that much pressure to stabilize) and removing the clutch from equation just allows you to focus on the throttle and back brake pressure.
I commuted 86 miles a day during rush hour on one of the congested highways in the United States (California 405) for 5 years and the DCT was a game changer (no clutch in / clutch out (repeat 1,000 time per commute). Then on weekends I would curve up the canyons using the paddle shifter.
I recently purchased a KTM 390 Adventure and it reminded me how fun having a clutch can be, but at the same how much a pain in the rear they can be. So much so I just installed a Rekluse Auto Clutch :).
Your channel is one of the best moto channels out there and I learn alot of seeing your videos...please keep these coming.
But, I'm not sure how much you have ridden this bike but I have to totally disagree with your conclusion on this one .
I got the Rebel 1100 DCT 14 months ago, and have clocked in 16,000 miles in the city, countryside, highways, all months riding in sun,rain (and some snow) as long as temp is above 32 degrees Fahrenheit and on 8-9 hour rides at a time.
I can absolutely verify this is one of the best bike experiences I have had. When you first get on one, it is a bit disconcerting not having to deal with the clutch and shifter but after a couple of weeks you realize why did I need that experience in the 1st place. I can focus on safe riding, perfecting my turns and curves and totally enjoy my ride without any attention to: do I have the right gear? am i shifting at right time? etc. No matter what people say that the clutch becomes 2nd nature, it still takes the brain attention away from cars, hazards, etc in road driving where as we all know fraction of seconds can matter..
In terms of the slow riding and clutch control, fully agree that a clutch bike you can do more fine control and I will never be able to do the turns and stunts you do your videos on this bike. But on the DCT, I can do a figure 8 perfectly fine, I can u turn in any road or alleyway with no problem and I can slow roll in traffic to almost 1-2 mph without putting my foot down. Just need to practice the ride control using your throttle and rear brake.
So for me the DCT is a keeper and likely for my future bikes as well.
Except for the thing about the low speed I really don't understand what the disadvantages are, I really enjoy the rebel 1100 dct and ride bid scooter too.
I think it boils down to each individual like you said in the vid. For those interested in slow speed manoeuvring the DCT will still work but makes their life harder. For those looking for long rides in relatively lighter traffic, the DCT makes their life easier. So there’s no right and wrong; it all depends what you’re doing / wanting to do with your bike 😊
Thank you for the video!!
Fully agree with this comment. i have been riding with a clutch for 44 years, with a DCT for 1 year. i got a Honda VFR 1200 "Crosstourer" w/DCT last year and i'm really glad i got one with the DCT transmission. It took me a minute to get used to it but now that i have - i really enjoy it. It has spoiled me. It's like riding a gigantic scooter. I haven't yet trained myself on the 2% of riding where i'd need to use the back brake to keep vertical. Maybe some day, but it's low priority for me. City traffic is more enjoyable now. Having my left hand free is great. *CAUTION POINTS* : DCT bikes are heavier because of more parts being onboard, and you can't push start a bike with DCT, so keep those things in mind. A DCT bike must not have a weak battery or you can't start it. Take heed please, for your own good.
Of course for those of us with physical problems DCT is a great option....
Agree 100%. Better than sitting in a car watching the bikes ride by...
I love my DCT.. just wish there were more models to choose from, extremely limited
I love my NC 750X DCT 😊
I think this is misinformation, I have had a Honda with DCT for several years and I love it. Several other motorcycle bloggers also commented and the majority like it and even bought dct equipped bikes for themselves. In Europe Honda sells more DCT bike of the models where a DCT is available then regular transmissions. You need to do your homework and make sure you separate your personal opinion from the rest of us.
Am a proud owner of My second Honda Crosstourer DCT & a Transalp 650. Best of 2 worlds. Transalp for serious off road…Will never go back to manuell. Of course it takes abit if practice like anything else. The benefits outweighs the cons. Note a DCT can be operated in fully manuell mode whenewer needed. In traffic & city trafic DCT is a dream. One can focus on the trafic 100% & no clutch jerking. Will not hoewer recomend DCT for beginners since the current line up starts on 750cc. Very powerful bikes & DCT adds 10kg.
I mean I have Cerebral palsy so I need a DCT to even be able to ride whatsoever
DCT is way better even at low speed. Just need to learn how to use it well. At low speed, use the breaks to adjust speed. New riders : DCT is THE best out there. And HONDA is THE champion in this category so far. Stay safe people! And use proper gears ! Cheers
Honda DCT is the best transmission for everyday riders. In congestion, the shifting is one less thing to think about. You would think riding a scooter with a CVT is also bad. The issue is that most motorcycle media is about sportbikes and speed. That's Why Motorcycles have failed in the USA as commuter vehicles. Weekend warriors have different needs from Motorcyclists who ride daily in all weather conditions. Like in alleged developing countries. If automatics are bad why do they outsell manuals transmissions on cars. The DCT is smarter than most riders and matches the engine performance to the transmission.
Im a DCT believer, in heavy traffic, touring, honestly... Anything.. Its so much safer pulling out in traffic too.
I will say the throttle depending on the bike, like a 1100 Africa Twin is going to kill you fast. Its whiskey throttle on turbo.
A Honda NC750 DCT is high on my list of next bikes to buy. Commuting is so much easier with a DCT.
i have one, you'll love it. I have a Vstrom 650 XT Adventure with regular transmission as well but if I could have bought one with a DCT I would have done so in a heartbeat. I bought it used to replace a much heavier bike. I keep them in different locations.
Sounds like a lot of conjecture that ASSUMES what low speed control problems you'll have, rather than an actual road test.
You're perfectly correct - we can't put much value in your clearly unfounded.OPINIONS...!!!
I have a Honda NC 750 S with DCT, and I agree on the problems with slow speed manoeuvres. I participated im a training and was taught to use the rear break to regulate the speed. But compared to manual transmission, it's still not on pair. So I am not sure if I would want to do the driving exam with DCT, because of the manoeuvre test. But in traffic, it's really great. When approaching complicated traffic situations, I can dedicate 100% of the attention to the traffic and don't need to bother at all about the motorcycle itself.
I think DCT is a good thing for people with arthritis or other issues with their left hand and left foot or ankle.
DCT provides you with the same level of convenience as automatic gear in a car vs manual. The low-speed manoeuvres that you’ll do in real life are effortless on a DCT. Yes, you cannot do jimhana-style, but do you need it? Lane filtering is effortless with the DCT as well.
If you want to buy an NC750x in the US, the DCT is your only option these days. They're not shipping the manual. At least, I've not seen one in checking dozens of dealers.
Correct
I have been a DCT rider for 4 years now. There is no situation where I would now prefer a clutch. Like with a clutch, you need to know how to use it and practice. By changing ride modes and hand throttle position I can manage any low speed turn needed. Going into very slow speed situations use rain or even sport mode to change the gear shift response. It's fast, easy and intuitive for me now. I often see those critical of DCT not understand how to use it: just leaving it in one mode or not adapting throttle is akin to popping the clutch with whisky throttle and declaring clutches are bad. What's bad is not knowing and not practicing. To each his own I say and I say DCT works for me!
one year of DCT driving here.i allways drive in manually dct mode, means you shift with your fingers +/-
when slow speed in traffic splitting, i allways have a feed down to have an feedback, you only have the trottle to adjust sense of speed.. and after 1 year i cant even not perfect u turn because of the lack of sensitifity of ho wmuch speed i give to my rear wheel.
i was in a slow speed course with curves and slaloms to train, but still, you cant perfectly dose the speed and rear brake too much = drop.
is the dct the only auto downshifter?
How different is DCT compared to CVT transmission in terms of ease of use, smoothness, power delivery?
Good question which I don't have an answer to, I don't have enough experience with scooters, sorry🙂
In my 30 years of riding, I never had a DCT till I got my new Goldwing Tour. yes, I was not sure till I tested it first time. Boy, do I not regret it. This thing is magical for me. The pleasure of riding, the attitude all changed. It magnetize me to ride more and more. I can't see myself ever switching to manual. The paddle shifting is superb. Yes, it has limitations and yes, not easy to do a short U turns and not recommended to do harsh ones for too long, but for normal rides, its unreal. I can't get over the smoothness. It is not for everyone. I do recommend to all to test both, if possible. if Honda, tomorrow, brings the 24 model with Shift Assist like the BMW K1600, I would probably, and maybe switch.
my first bike was a Honda African twin adventure sports es dct was amazing had no issues
Automatic is the wave of the future. If you like manual and shifting then that's fine. I would just like something to get around on. The NC750X DCT has a top speed of 123 MPH. Why would anyone need to be going that fast on public roads in the first place? Plenty of power and get up and go. And since the DCT automatic transmission shifts for you the bike gets 70 MPG. Riders and especially new riders that start on something like a Rebel 300 are bouncing off the rev limiter before they shift causing bad MPG. If you like manual and taking it to the red line with your bike that's ok. But I'll take the automatic.
Many small scooter don't have a gear. ADV, Forza 350 too
Ok it's not a DCT but automatically.. and yes it's the best. Only try and learn
I love my NM4 (Vultus) with DCT and do not miss the mis-shifts, grinding gears, and the ubiquitous untimely stall outs. It’s always in the right gear and never stalls out. And according to the forums, people are getting 70k before needing a clutch replacement (manual calls for 50k replacement). Not to mention the great return on the MPG numbers.
However, there are draw-backs: 1) the drive chain tension must be in exact spec in order for the computer to select appropriate gears, especially when downshifting; 2) Honda made an error by not replacing the clutch lever with a left-hand brake lever, as is standard on all bicycles and scooters, this omission can be dangerous on off-road bikes (ex Africa Twin w/ DCT) if forced to dismount on the right side while on steep graded incline. But these niggles are easily remedied by checking chain slack every 500 miles and converting the foot brake to a left-hand brake (as many owners have done using a master cylinder from a Honda Silverwing scooter).
The foot brake is a legal issue. Scooters an motorcycles have seperate legal standards in many countrys. For motorcycles, the law commonly states that the rear brake must be operated by the right foot. CFMoto was forced to recall their V5 automatic motorcycles in the US for having a left hand rear brake. Its part of the same laws that standerdised right-hand throttle an left foot shifting. British bikes had left foot braking an right foot shifting before those laws. Those laws need updated, but until they are, honda follows them.
@@RebelCowboysRVsAccording to what you say, in the US, how are the Forza 750 and the X-Adv, considered? Scooters or motorcycles? In fact they're motorcycles without right foot rear brake. So, how are they legal?
@@1zanglang I know nothing about those bikes but a quick google search says that they are both classed as scooters by Honda, not motorcycles. Probably because of this law.
I haven’t been riding for quite a while, and want to start again at 57.
My previous bikes were all dual sports, and scramblers, and I’m considering the Africa Twin with DCT.
I used to do the slow speed manoeuvres , and loved it, but considering the purpose of the new ride, I believe just maybe the DCT has some merit.
I also want to compare it with a quick shifter, because I love the control of the clutch..
Also I don’t want the bike to decide for me..
I guess that I will have to test ride it..
MANY thanks for the video…
Dude, you know what you are talking about. I learn very much from you and I rank you as the best CZcams motorcycle trainer.
HOWEVER, my wife and I tend to ride only in summer months and we lose some muscle memory in the winter. I have ridden for more years than her and have lots of experience in my youth.
I ride a DL650, standard clutch.
She rides a Honda NC750X DCT.
She has much less experience than me.
In the spring on our first rides together maybe 5% of the time I stall when starting from a dead stop uphill. She NEVER stalls. She now rides in front of me in the spring when we are still out of practice until my starting on a hill gets better.
I love the Africa Twin dct. It's a fantastic machine. I got carpel tunnel in my left hand, and my biking days would have been over. Thanks to the AT Back on the road.
Use the back brake to act like a clutch.
Your final assessment is somehow true for slow off-road, where the DCT control with the rear brake is really not so easy done and here and there leads to falling over due to the lack of propulsion.
On asphalt your verdict is definitely wrong.
On asphalt you can easily control the speed in a DCT bike at low speeds using the throttle against the rear wheel brake. This is not more difficult than throttle and clutch but for many riders much easier.
With hundreds of thousands of DCT bikes sold worldwide and no complaints about excessive clutch or transmission wear, Honda has also sufficiently proven that a DCT transmission is more than adequate for everyday use.
I never again want to be without the comfort of not having to operate a clutch lever or gear lever on long tours.
30 minutes in stop and go traffic commuting home is a pleasant piece of cake with DCT but annoying self torture on a shifter.
Sure, a DCT has no place on a hooligan bike or a supersport. Of course, in such bikes I use clutch - and quickshifter - also Honda doesn't offer DCT in such bikes
Greetings from the PPRC good video. Don’t think I would ever move to a DCT just because of the expense and the extra maintenance.🇺🇸🏍️
I’m on my 3rd Honda DCT, and there is no extra maintenance. I’ve done nearly 200k on DCT’s. And all three bikes have been maintenance free
I also have a Triumph Speed Triple, which will require the clutch plates changing at some point
How can i install rear breake on left handlebar
if you need to ride slow, then use your legs for support
modern engines have a throttle position, rpm, and requested torque map in the tune. you get very consistent torque based on your inputs and the clutch pressure is constantly modulated based on various engine parameters. im sure they are just as easy as a normal bike to control torque transfer to the rear wheel.
THANK YOU AGAIN .SO NICE TO BE YOUR STUDENT REGARDS VIRENDRADR
I think it is instrumental in getting more people into motorcycles. Your points are well taken for those who are able and interested to put forth the effort though. 👊👍🙂
Yes you can't modulate the clutches, this can be a issue when starting off road, only one. In traffic is just a good send! One reason more is perfect for a beginner
IMO most of the people having problems properly using a clutch are those being used to automatic cars (so mainly US-Americans and Oceanics). I talked to all my biker friends here in Austria and not one of them ever had any problems using a clutch and taking the many advantages of the friction zone, not even as a beginner motorcyclist. All of them had made their car license (here in Austria and I think also in the rest of Europe you have to do this with a manual car) before they switched to motorcycling.
Automatic in cars has only recently becoming a bit more popular here.
Thanks MotoControl, love your videos. Here is my 2. I do have DCT and it is of my concern too, not the low speed maneuvers but the burning clutches possibility... So I did quick research and did not found anybody who claims of DCT clutch burnout while providing hard evidence. It seems to mostly be just word of mouth, i.e. "someone said", "someone heard", someone knows the guy that knows the guy that once owned DCT before. My quest continues, maybe I am missing something. If anybody sees this message and can help with link to evidence backed statements please let me know.
You're not the only one, CZcams channel "Ride Like a Pro Jerry Palladino" also said that low-speed maneuvering is more difficult with DCT. I like having a clutch so I haven't really looked at DCT, but still, hopefully the system becomes better in the future.
Yes, it's really more difficult, but for some reason a lot of people think otherwise😁
@@MotoControlEn not so much difficult as radically different - if you watch Brett Tkacs' video on slow speed DCT all becomes clear - it's very much possible to do all you need with DCT. BUT THEN Honda come out with this crap about burnt out clutches, that riding DCT bikes slow is somehow abuse, that their bikes slip the clutch at slow speeds, and I'm like what the f**k? I've spent more on this DCT bike than any bike I've had, more than I can afford to spend on another bike. If this clutch burns out doing normal shit & Honda turn round and say that was abusive riding I'm never going to buy Honda again, and I will blacken their name to any who will listen. They need to fix their shit. Either come up with a workaround, some advice so we know how to do slow stuff without damaging it, a software update that cuts down on needless clutch wear, an on-screen indicator showing when the clutch is slipping so we can control what's going on... So many possibilities, but they're taking the Enzo Ferrari line "You're riding it wrong"? F**k that.
@@Skiamakhos That's what my video was about😁
Yes Palladino does say this but he has one technique which he uses to good effect watch MotoJitsu on the DCT who has many different techniques and you realise that if you’re a one trick pony then the DCT may be tricky
He needs to learn how to do it on a scooter, then he can move up to DCT
Most people saying they don't like DCT either test rode it for a few kms or have not even tried it. I have owned the CRF1100 DCT for 35k kms and have done everything from city riding, single track off-road, touring etc. It is an incredible technology that has been improving for the past 10 years. Especially off-road it works like a charm, has definitely got me through some shit. Initially it did feel weird but after a few kms you start loving it. KTM is building similar technology btw.
switched to DCT 8 yr ago. Never looked back.
I personally became a much better slow speed rider since I have my AfricaTwin DCT. But since I bought my AT I’m also on a long term motorcycle trip and did 60.000km last year. At the end you still have to learn and make experience to become a better rider. It doesn’t matter if you ride a manual or dc transmission.
😉
You are partly right friction zone works better on manual transmission but low speed maneuvering is also possible with DCT albeit applying gas and break feels different on DCS … Carpel tunnel syndrome on my left wrist is the main purpose I stop using manual transmission bike in the city as bike gets bigger clutch gets heavier if you drive everyday in the city with low speed and filter the traffic you may end up carpel tunnel syndrome which requires surgery. .. after surgery I end up on DCT
I am still struggling to keep hands relaxed while operating cluth lever and throttle, hands used to grab stuff firmly with whole hand tensed 😊 (from gym training, I guess, it gave me issues with blind typing on PC keyboard as well). But not considering DCT for reasons stated above, hope to "teach" my left arm same as I did with the left leg for car's manual.
The DCT is great for someone who can’t use a clutch or shift the gears themselves for whatever reason. Beyond that, it’s like Honda is full of mad scientists trying to takeover the motorcycle world. “One day the whole world will bow before the DCT!”
Trust me it will 🥳
I used to own a CRF1100 DCT and I agree 100% with this video. Low speed manoeuvring is made significantly more difficult with the DCT gearbox because you don't have the ability to control the bike by feathering the clutch so the only other control you have is the rear brake and that makes for rather jerky progress. I use my bike for commuting regularly through urban areas so this was a big issue for me. In addition and what was not mentioned in the video was that sometimes the DCT box on my bike changed up or down mid corner and that was frustrating to say the least. I came to the same conclusion as the video; what was the point in paying more for a heavier bike that I enjoyed less? I chopped my bike in for a CRF1100 with manual box after just a few months and I'm much happier with that although its also far from being a perfect bike.
I have AT with DCT and love it but do agree with most of what you say. Big fix to all those disadvantages - hand operated rear brake does exactly what clutch does and with very sensitive control.
Becomes a little like recluse on dirt bike
And stand UP then you can do Downuts and slide hook terns . Commonly nown as wateless riding , just tip it in with your feet and slightly BLIP THROTTLE COMBO BACK BRAKE AND YES HAND OPERATED REAR BRAKE I AGREE GOOD POTION IM STILL TO FIT THAT ON IM TO BIZY HAVEING FUNN IN THE Australian out back crf 1000L dct A S . I CAN RIDE MANUAL but my left foot is bad and hand aswell dct has me back up and rideing after a big crash years ago dct good stuff I think .
I am currently thinking about buying the bike and one of the options is Honda Rebel 1100 DCT. Until I saw this video, I didn't realize that I will not be able to do the clutch control maneuvers as there will be none and just like you pointed, it is much more essential on a bike. I do not agree, that it is not good for the casual city riding, but definitely agree that I would not want it in a bike, which will be used in all types of riding and not just cruising, even the Rebel is a cruising motorcycle primarily. So thank you for saving me. Scratching DCT off my list.
I tried DCT & didn’t like it. It took away the interaction I had with the motorcycle, it changed gear at the wrong time (mid corner)! I can appreciate DCT in city & slow riding though. To me DCT is just more to go wrong along with the electronics but I believe the DCT is a reliable system just not for me.
'22 Africa Twin AS ES with DCT and use the rear brake, and have ZERO issues with low speed on or off-road, or doing gymkhana. Use it as a tool, not as a clutch, and it's just fine. The rest is hyperbole.
So what are we going to do when bikes go electric as they don't have a clutch or gears
DCT is good for people who use a lot of clutch and take it too seriously, I use chluch Lever only to get going. I have drove DCT for me is unnecessary. I bought the non dct NC750x way better.
Spot on! 👍
My feet are too big and I have to cut and weld up a longer foot shifter . This seems like an interesting option .
I agree with your opinion. Long live the the manual gearbox and clutch.
My dad bought a automatic motorcycle two summers ago.
He is 70, and never riden before in his life, so for him it is the perfect bike. Think he would have had issues and gotten nervous managing a clutch and gears.
easy going shift to the Honda DCT.
if I want to shift I'll ride my crf300 or my Ural 750.
I like the DCT, others don't.
no worries about that.
Love the DCT, thank you Honda!
I dont judge anyone on two wheels, DCT, manual, you are my bro all the same
From Canada…
Transport trucks are now mostly automatic although the dct isn’t a pure automatic because no torque converter. Far more cars and pickup trucks now have automatics. Farm tractors have various powershift transmissions or hydrostatic drives if minimal drawbar load.
Rare to find a manual atv. Snowmobiles have always been “automatic”.
The only downside of the dct, in particular, is that there’s no way to loosen the pressure on the clutch plates in low gear so that they can slip and enable extra low speeds for certain maneuvers. So for me it’s two different trade offs;
I don’t like clutching all the time especially when compared to my other vehicles, but I do like the ability to go slow.
I like the simplicity, technology and ease of the dct, but I don’t like having to do slow speed maneuvers quickly.
Which do I like more? Which do I dislike more?
🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
Can you elaborate more on clutch burning on slow speed?
Yes, here: czcams.com/video/2fUA8kv1rGs/video.html
if DCT is an issue, then what can you say about CVT. I've seen a lot of Japanese ride a scooter on gymkhana
I ride a Yamaha Tmax - CVT transmission: great for commuting and errands and fun to ride. Still, I desire having a second bike like a Royal Enfield Super Meteor 650 for that classic connection to the motor. The best of both worlds.
You have a point, but what about hassle of keep shifting up and down and keeping the bike in correct shift all the time. Doesn't automatic take all this pain away from you? What is your view about this? I'm planning to buy a bike and to be transparent I'm a car guy and don't think I have ridden the bike more than two hours in my entire life. Thanks.
Hi, like others said here, il you're new to motorcycles, I recommand getting a small motorycle with a clutch and practice with that.
a DCT bike is great but not at low turning speed. Once you try one, you don't want to go back to manual shifting :).
Rode & owned clutch motorcycles from naked 750...dual 650 & touring 1100...but the one I love most is my CVT maxi scooter...it's the best