Critiquing the Fontaine Archon Quest: Act 1

This video may be late but it still retains relevance. Today we'll dive just a few of the many criticism of Fontaine's act 1. Even though Fontaine is my Favourite Archon Quest and i greatly enjoyed Act 1, we must be fair and talk about the problems.
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[@Cookie-mc4us]

I feel like the different attitudes towards childe and lyney and lynette could also be because they work for the house of the hearth, aka Arlechino. And both wanderer and childe have warned of us that arlechinno is two-faced or a woof in sheeps clothing. The traveler seems to have different tolerances for different harbingers. Like childe and wanderer are fine to intereact with but they completely distrust signora and dottore. So since they didnt know arlechinno before they decided to be safe and distance themselves. But i could be reaching.

[@Ren_rz]

I'm going to try to defend these just to see if I can come up with something
1. Liliian's case is a difficult one to defend the only reasoning I can think of is that our first encounter was not where she was stealing the ticket, just another pickpocketing day for her..
As for her impersonating hallsey and the issue with ticket, do we know how the ticketing system works for the Fontaine theater?
Its possible that the theatre's ticket system is more of an old fashioned version where you just go buy a ticket, they give you a paper slip with the seat number and stuff , you go sit there and leave once the show is over. I don't think they require you to have some kind of ID proof for you to buy or use the ticket because our own tickets were bought by Lyney and we don't have any Fontainian ID proof as we just entered Fontaine a day prior.
Now about Lilian trying to be hallsey sorry but i didn't understand what point you were trying to make. As Lilian would only be pretending to be Hallsey for the duration of the show not like she's going to try and be hallsey for the rest of her life.
2. Cowell
I never saw the problem with Cowell because Cowell was never on the stage and i think he was like some sort of prop assistant or something so it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for him to be in the tunnel ahead of time.
3. The police dude
Sorry I again didn't understand what you were trying to say with this one.
If you mean by the logic that Nuvilette used to sus this guy out. I mean it makes sense the guy just panicked hard once Cowell was busted he was Just trying to redirect the blame towards lyney again. As Nuvilette he immediately suspected the only other known person who came into contact with Lyney's belongings which was this guy.
4. Lyney and the traveler
Other then the fact that we've known Childe for longer the traveler is also well aware of Childe's personality as a musclehead that makes Childe east to predict and as the traveler has already defeated him in battle they don't consider him as a threat.
And also Childe never hide the fact that he was Fatui I that's the core of why the traveler is most distrustful of Lyney is because he lied. As the traveler already knew Childe was a harbinger, inevitable betrayal was expected
If it's true or not I'm not sure but the traveler whenever talking to the bad guys will usually pick a side whether to be good towards them or completely destroy them (which may be subject to change depending how much time we spend with the character and how much we understand said character)
through their Dailogue options but with mastermind thinkers and tricksters like lyney they'll always leave it up to us the players whether to deny them or go along with them.
Lyney atm seems to come under the first category which may or may not change with story progressesion

[@arcazure9610]

The game was clearly trying to tell us through Neuvillette that Cowell was the one who picked up Lilianne from the audience and stood outside from her box. If the game simply gave the assistant a different mask with different clothing, then fine, Cowell is in the tunnel the whole time. However that’s not the case.
If you say that Cowell isn’t the guy outside the box and that was just some conveniently identical NPC with the exact same mask who just happened to vanish after the incident, well then Neuvillette’s explanation is wrong. You can’t really get a clean answer to this unless it’s revealed how Cowell entered the tunnel when he was standing right outside the box, with lights shining on it, and with him being surrounded by the audience.
About Garde Vaughn: it's simple. he was sussed out without much of an explanation. the only thing we knew for sure was that he "found" seawater vials in Lyney's belongings. That in itself is really unsatisfying evidence to make a case that he's the accomplice. It could've just as easily been that somebody else planted that vial before he inspected it. He was convicted suddenly without any real explanation. There are ways to make it more satisfying, for example an undercover garde working against the cartel inspecting Lyney's belongings beforehand but withholding that information from the public. It's really not that hard to write up the evidence to make Vaughn undeniably guilty, yet we don't see it.

[@Ren_rz]

@@arcazure9610 @arcazure9610 I went through the Archon Quest a few more times again
Firstly all the assistants wear the same outfit so and the dude next to Lilian's box is supposedly Cowell but we can't say that he was constantly standing next to the box and just magically appeared in the tunnel because we don't see the box after Lilian enters it at all until the cutscene when the assistant is missing. There is an entrance to the tunnel via the air duct which connects the tunnel and the basement. It's not really that odd for magic assistant to be constantly on move back and forth around the stage and each trick needs its set of preparations and what not it could've easily gone unnoticed when cowell was running around plus the staff of the Opera house must be aware of the tunnel so it's not that odd when no gave a second thought to Cowell running around. Also Cowell running towards the basement after hearing the loud thud could also be taken as an assistant going in to check if there's any kind of issue with the props or mechanisms which Cowell was supposedly responsible for.
Now about the Guard man Persson Nuvilette never directly accused the dude in anyway.
He starts by asking him how did he find the evidence after which Furina jumps in saying that the evidence was forged which was her attempt at trying to save face and even after that Nuvilette doesn't just go "your the accomplise you will punished" he first says that he only suspect of the Guard being the accomplise and then tells him that he knows what he must do to lower his sentence if he is the accomplise.
It looks too convenient for Nuvilette not because Nuvilette just declares him guilty without any evidence but because the Guard dude Cracks open after one hit. Plus Judges tend to develop an eye for liars when they see one and he's been a judge for 400 years so you can also give some of the credit to his experience
All in all Nuvi follows the standard procedure of interrogation. If the evidence had been forged by a 3rd party and the guard would've been innocent and tried to defend himself, Nuvilette wouldn't have given a second thought to Furina's accusations

[@arcazure9610]

@@Ren_rz the problem with the air duct explanation was that Lyney went through the vent towards the basement wheras cowell appeared in the tunnel to greet lilianne. Well first off he’d have to leave the performance hall to go to wherever the stairs to the basement is, then he’d run into Lyney if he tried to enter through the vent.

[@arcazure9610]

@@Ren_rz Although i will say. The Vaughn scene feels less disappointing now if we’re just going with him self-reporting, so it’s just a matter of taste.

[@Ren_rz]

@@arcazure9610 Not necessarily because Lyney himself tells us that the room with the Oratrice Core is in a seperate room within the basement.
So the basement most likely has multiple rooms and is most likely somewhat spacious.
Another thing Lyney tells us that tho he gives the audience 60s to count the actual duration for him to do everything is actually 75s through dragging out the act through recorded conversation with the audience through Lynette.
And he only needs 15s to swap boxes so he most likely on returns when the countdown is in it's final 10s and enters the basement area the moment the box is shut close with gives enough time for the Cowell and Lilian deathmatch

[@harmonialarts]

Personally I think that Fontaine's act 1 is the most thrilling opening to a region we've had so far, despite its plot holes now that we look back on it.
On the Childe vs Lyney and Lynette treatment discourse, Childe made his allegiance and status in the Fatui very clear the first time we meet while Lyney and Lynette just said nothing until Furina outed them in court. If someone who I trusted in the innocence of was revealed to be in a organization known for its many crimes against humanity I too would be livid that they did not tell me when there were supposed to be no secrets between us as their defending attorney. It makes sense that the Traveler would doubt their innocence now knowing who they were aligned with. Four regions straight the Fatui have only caused harm, of course anyone aligned with them can't immidiately be trusted even if they are good people. The traveler could have easily given up on them but they didn't, which already says a lot about how they feel. They know the Fatui are bad but not all members are guilty of crimes commited in the name of the organization. The Traveler has met Fatui from both sides of the spectrum from simple foot soldiers to criminal masterminds. Many world quests have shown how kind the Traveler is, going to great lengths for people they barely know like Tirzad and Rana. But their not a pure hearted hero, since they don't have a problem killing people such as the Tanit tribe when Matriarch Bable tried to make Jeht turn against us. What I'm trying to say is that the Traveler has their own personality being written through their actions in quests.
Sorry for the long comment, looking forward to act 2 plot holes

[@arcazure9610]

I agree, the circumstances are different, alot of people were angry at the time when i was reading the discussion, i included it because of the outrage but personally i don't care as much. If i were to try my best at a fair criticism, it's that the scene was heavily misunderstood.

[@5h0ckblock]

Cowell entered the box after the thud sound. Remember that the audience was looking at the opposite box on stage, and as Lyney's assistant, he would know there was a box inside the box. This second box would be on the tracks within the tunnel, leaving a brief moment where the box on the steps are empty. Even if he was seen, a normal person would just assume he was doing something to help the trick, so who would actually mention it if they saw him? But this is the finale, so who would actually look away from the stage at this point?

[@arcazure9610]

The thud sound was cowell fighting lilianne inside the tunnel and getting knocked out, not him entering the tunnel. By that point he already appeared inside the tunnel. You also need to keep in mind there were people sitting *behind* the second box, so some audience members will end up seeing both boxes. Being seen entering the box would ruin the trick, because keep in mind the trick was “my magic will allow us to swap places!” Cowell caught entering the box would be like if Lynette was caught entering the stage box. It would cheapen the trick.

[@5h0ckblock]

@@arcazure9610 No the thud was the sound of the girl forcing her way out of the box, which was the only reason he went down there, because he realized she didn't dissolve as planned. In fact after the thud, when the countdown reaches 19 you can still see Cowell standing next to the box in the cutscene.

[@arcazure9610]

@@5h0ckblock oh i see. looking back on that scene the lights were also shining on the second box so Cowell couldn't try anything funny without being noticed, Looks like my assumption that the 2nd box was dark was incorrect. And kinda embarassing.
So Cowell was in the audience box at 19 seconds. The thud was actually Lilianne trying to break out of the box after being splashed with seawater.

[@5h0ckblock]

@@arcazure9610 You aren't entirely wrong. Yes the lights are on, but in the prerendered cutscene right after, only the spotlight for the box on the steps is on, then is turned off. So there is indeed a point where its dark enough for Cowell to sneak in.
There is an issue of him not being on camera while the spotlight is still on, but the camera angle only shows the front not the back at that particular moment. And once the spotlight goes off no one is seeing him enter it.
The big issue remaining is how much time is left, but luckily for Cowell, Lyney had planned ahead of time to make the audience count slower so that he has more time to do whatever in the basement. There's a 17 - 19 second gap between the audience saying 8 and 7, which is just BARELY enough time for a brief encounter. You do have to suspend disbelief a little bit, but in real life people have been knocked out in mere seconds during a street fight so its not impossible. It just means Cowell is hella weak, or Lilianne is actually swole. I'm going to go with the latter, because that's just funny.

[@arcazure9610]

@@5h0ckblock so in the end we arrive at my original assumption where Cowell sneaks into the box from the crowd when the lights are off. I have to say i'm not the biggest fan of this explanation, because this explanation depends on him getting lucky and nobody noticing him in the dark. I mean at least it wouldn't be a plot hole then.
The time thing i'm not too concerned about because i wouldn't rely on a crowd to accurately count seconds anyway.

[@connie3011]

I would like to add that the original Chinese version should also be looked at. Maybe a lot of these plot holes were explained in Chinese. In Chinese you can put a lot of information into smaller chunks unlike in English. Words/phrases only native Chinese speakers can understand can be lost when translating that text into English.