SAMSUNG's 'The Frame' 2022: Art, Apple Music & Roon
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 24. 07. 2024
- đđ» This episode is brought to you by AudioQuest:
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đ„ Camera: Olaf von Voss
đŹ Editor: John Darko
đșđ» Motion GFX: John Darko
đ° Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
đ My listening room in 2022:
darko.audio/darkos-listening-...
đ” Song IDs? Playlists of all music heard in this video - and other videos - can be found on PATREON: / johndarko
0:00 Intro
2:09 The 2022 Frame
4:16 Apple TV 4K
7:30 Hi-res streaming & gapless
10:54 Roon on 'The Frame' w/ Roon TV Remote
13:51 Final thoughts
15:28 Whatabout...?
đ Stuff seen in this video...
Samsung âThe Frameâ 2022
www.samsung.com/us/television...
Apple TV 4K
www.apple.com/shop/buy-tv/app...
Roon TV Remote
apps.apple.com/gb/app/tv-remo...
Samsung QN90A or LG OLED?
darko.audio/2022/04/a-short-f...
A short film about using a smart TV as a music streamer
darko.audio/2022/04/a-short-f...
Whatâs gapless?
darko.audio/2020/05/what-is-g...
Whatâs resampling?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample-...
Whatâs Roon?
darko.audio/2018/07/a-short-f...
Whatâs the âDirty Screen Effectâ?
www.digitaltrends.com/home-th...
Lyngdorf TDAI-1120
darko.audio/2021/11/a-short-f...
#samsung #applemusic #hifi
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Itâs at the point now when John says âand thank you so much for watchingâ that I look at the timeline to see how long the blooper reel is. Especially liked the zapper today. Oh yeah the video was actually excellent too.
The Frame + Apple TV + KEF LS60 might be one of the sleakest looking systems I've seen. Could definitely be my next setup.
âNo HiRes For You - Come back one Yearâ
- Loving my Seinfeld
I had to stop EVERYTHING I was doing because Johnâs FINALLY talking about Apple Music!!! Thank you so much John!!!
Quick Sidenote: I think John noticed that Apple went gapless just like I did.
"Fisher Price Simple" .... you crack me up, John!
Still missed a couple of important tricks with the Apple TV: you can remote control the Apple Music app on Apple TV from the iOS Apple Music app by selecting control other tvs and speakers from the iOS airplay menu at the bottom, this gives you essentially the âconnectâ feature. Another trick is visually browse music on the Apple TV, but you can route the the audio out to another airplay 2 speaker, so indeed you could couple the Apple TV with the WiiM mini, giving you indeed 44.1khz output from its toslink. Another interesting trick is to use that same output speaker menu with Bluetooth speakers, because they will connect automatically when you turn them on once paired, this gives everyone a way to share a Bluetooth speaker easily via AirPlay 2, and the tv can actually be off as well.
As an alternative to the Apple TV 4K, I use an iPad mini with USB-C connected to an Apple HDMI adaptor. The adaptor has a USB-C, an HDMI and a USB-A output. Connect the USB-C to a power adapter, the HDMI to the TV and the USB-A to the DAC.
This connection plays files without downsampling (even DSF files through Logitech Media Server.)
The TV displays exactly what is on the iPad. The landscape mode looks great.
The iPad stays charged to 100%.
The iPad is my streamer/remote control for all apps available in IOS.
The only downside is the cable to the iPad must stay connected. I have a 2 meter USB-C extension cable connected to the iPad and the HDMI adapter. This keeps the adapter behind the monitor/dac.
Of course as soon as I left a comment, the whole thing stopped working.... The Apple TV is an awesome idea. :>)
I'm loving the Future Loop Foundation album. So much more mellow than the drum & bass I was into back in the late nineties, but right where I am tonight. Thanks John!
THIS answered so many of my Apple TV 4k + music streaming questions! Thank you!!đ
I like your reviews and channel. The focus on solving common problems stemming from the fast-changing digital audio space is great.
Fever Ray! I recently rediscovered that album. I'd forgotten how good it is. This video was helpful. Understanding the nitty gritty of getting gapless playback from various streaming services in various situations can be such a huge rabbit hole. This video shined a light down that hole. Thanks!
Was looking forward to this video.
Love it! Well done.
You definitely made my day with the quote: "Fischerprice simple". Thanks for an excellent channel... for sure one of my favourites.
Did you compare the sound quality between playing the same track on the Apple TV and then playing directly to the LS60s with the KEF Connect app? Many audio-related problems occur when you run your music through a TV.
I just gave this a listen on my system comparing an Apple TV 4k and the same track running on a Bluesound node. The TV and the Node are connected to the same DAC and stereo equipment.
While the sound through the TV/Apple TV 4k combo was ok, the same track was much richer and more 3 dimensional when played through the Node.
In my experience, the more simple you keep your signal path, the better the sound.
Thanks for including the Frame in your hifi review.. Something to think about.. Thanks again
This review is a weird unicorn - a crossroads of everything I'm interested in right now. Pretty amazing, thanks.
Thanks so much for this video. I am a long time Roon user that occasionally used an Apple TV as and endpoint but was never really happy with that due to the lack of control and track information. I was excited to learn about the TV:Remote app and immediately purchased it and is a far better experience which I will now use more often playing over my multi-channel system when not running my main two channel system.
THANKS JOHN FOR SHARING THISâŠAND HAPPY đ€ YOU ARE GETTING YOUR GAPLESS PLAYBACK AND đŒ ARTWORK âŠwe look đ forward to your next video and out takes đđđđ
Just love the way the Roon interface to Apple TV features multiple pictures of the artists. It makes using a playlist really fun.
Very informative stuff! Have been waiting for this review with a while, as an Apple Music subscriber. Is there a Part 2 coming - with a sound quality-focused appraisal of the Apple TV 4K as a streaming source? Does it cut the mustard..?? Would dearly love to see this.
You had me at Time & Bass đ
Outtake are awesome 8-)
Thanks for the great content, John! I've been exploring some streaming options in Apple environment; I use Mac mini (M1, silicon) as my Roon Core/Server, and it's connected to my DAC (RME-ADI2) via USB, in Roon TV Remote you can select zones, and if I select Mac mini I can use USB connection which is better than S/PDIF Toslink comes from the TV to my DAC. I know you don't use Mac mini as a streaming server but wanted to share anyway. :)
Great Video John. As always. I use a ATV 4K with a HDMI Extractor for a direct Toslink Output of the Device. The TV OS resamples also everything to 48kHz all the time but ist works fine for me.
Apple Music on Apple TV 4K will let you do Atmos audio using an AV Receiver with HDMI in full 5.1.4 glory. This is amazing and worth trying.
Agreed. A good Atmos setup playing a good Atmos track brings the music listening experience to a new level. Quite exciting but Iâm wishing for more Atmos tracks on Apple Music.
Glad you discovered TV:Remote!
This is HUGE for a full build out in Roon ! I'm with ya John this is Great ! John is the only one who puts on his future + better glasses with regard to Artists & their craft.... helping audiences feel more connected... I mean BRILLIANT!!
Great to see Children of the Bong and Future Loop Foundation getting some love. Two of my fave albums to play at 11 ;-)
Hi from cold Sydney John. Iâm enjoying your presentation of these streaming setups that involve visuals through the tv. I havenât quite crossed that bridge for my own preferences /listening setup /environments. How do you currently use/ see your other streaming devices like the auralic aries? I assume you might be able to set the roon streaming to send visuals to tv and draw your audio from the aries to your dacs. I think. Where does that sit currently for you in that balance between best audio possible v visual input? Or is the aries streamer put away for the apple tv setup? Cheers.
Peter T
I have similar setup, Apple TV 4K, LG OLED, digital or bluetooth out to devices, works awesome.
Man, when you scroll through your Roon Artist View it is just scary how similar my list is to yours.
Also, fully agree that enjoying sound quality is more than just sonic fidelity. What you see and feel is indeed important as well. I'd also add where you are and who you are with play a huge role
Just wondering if the quality of sound when streaming movies is also "capped" just as with the streaming apps? Not just for movies, but say there's a recording of a live performance, would it be beneficial to listen to the album on Tidal or video version of said performance on Prime (purely for the sound)?
Good video! Its mad to think that these days we have DSD 1024, MQA, crazy upsamplers available for a range of devices, and gapless playback is still missing on a lot of these applications. I would have thought the service providing the hi-res music would have wanted more control over how their apps work in different ecosystems!
Darko, I do not know if you know, but in equipment such as Arcam ST60, you can enter the home address of the streamer via a web browser on the tv or PC or tablet and there is displayed in a very nice way the album cover, all the necessary data along with the data transfer speed, without any hassle, Brilliant. I have not read such information anywhere, I found it myself, checking if it was possible to control the streamer functions from the browser level and it turned out that you can also display the cover.
Hi there. Been looking at ways to get album artwork on the TV while listening to Music. So if you have an Apple TV, you can use your Macbook as the source. I open tidal connect to my BlueOS Powernode or Naim Amp. Then airplay the Macbook in extended mode while app is fullscreen. This was you get fullscreen album artwork and high res audio at the same time.
When you stream using volumio or roon, would you see the album artwork on the screen? Or is that only achieved when you use apps native to the Samsung's operating system?
Have you tried the Naim Uniti Atom with the Frame TV? Should be a interesting combination.
Art gallery app on the LG c2-is there a way to play your own music over the images or are you stuck with the music that comes with the downloaded images? Every time I try it takes me out of the gallery app.LG have missed a trick I think
7:03 In the US we do not get a Toslink output on ATV.... Apple TV 3 had one, but nothing past that. I really wish we did, because I do not use HDMI in my setup.
ive found that volumio on a pi with a 192 capable dac still limits to 48/24 on tidal too. so, no reason for me to get an apple tv then?
Iâm airplaying my Apple Music from my iPhone to LG c2 48â and I plugged my rocket krkâs into the tv and it sounds great to me.wonder when apple are going to bring high res to the Apple TV đ€
I'm content to use my phone or tablet to control my streaming. Sometimes I use screen mirroring get my TV showing my streamer's control app, or tidal connect, BBC sounds etc. This way I have the sound quality of my expensive hifi streamer, plus a big screen when I occasionally wish for it.
I was wondering about tv/movie viewing experience of a stereo set up with no centre speaker. Does anyone have experience of this? Does speech still sound centred at the screen?
I can't remember if I commented on the previous video, but since gapless playback is a deal-breaker for me too (I have a streamer in the closet for this reason) I am glad to inform you that I don't know what the hell is happening with google chromecast and mi box s, but plex on the nvidia shield tv pro plays gaplessly and also with plexamps sweet fades if you so wish (I do and I love it).
Fire TV was briefly mentioned. I can confirm that my Amazon Fire TV Cube (canât speak for the stick version) does output 24/192 over HDMI into my Marantz NR1510 receiver.
Does anyone know what record weight John is using in this and other recent videos? I like how low profile it is. Would love to know the model.
5:33 how did you install tidal on samsung tv? i cannot find it smart tv store. is that related with smart tv region?
Been using wireless apple itunes/music since i was running it out of an airport express via a 3.5 into am amp. And well ditto! Now on 2nd apple TV. Have had issues via iTunes on pc via airplay with them. At best buy yesterday and their tech recommended a mac mini. Im looking for a streamer considering ifi zen to use for airplay into a denafrips ares 2 to sugden signature a21L to heresy 4. Therefore how about a step up to a mac mini review tv off wireless keyboard small monitor or . . . ??? In addition at least via iTunes pc which i enjoy it has a built in manual eq.
Did you try PCM pass through setting on Samsung TV via HDMI eARC connection? I havenât checked if it still up/down samples to 48kHz. Worth checking out. Iâm using Bluesound node 2021 as a streamer DAC. So I couldnât see the bit rate.
My experience with this stuff (no opinions, just reporting experiences).
My original living room setup was AppleTV (HDMI into), 4K TV, which then TOS into a second hand Denon Hi-Fi unit, with stereo speakers. I was a long time iTunes user (purchased music) when back in UK.
Now based in Japan, it's a right royal PITA to continue with that (payments etc, with Japan credit cards to UK iTunes), so I decided to use Spotify for my music streaming service (connecting to my Japanese payment methods).
Very happy with Spotify on my computer, iFi DAC, good headphones, or on the move.
But, Spotify on Apple TV was dreadful. It's capped to 160kps, so everything was a muddy mess.
So, I ended up eventually getting a Bluesound Node (Spotify Connect and connect into the Denon). Such an improvement.
If you are an Apple Music user, then I think the setup you described is fantastic. It's a shame it didn't work out for me, because I did like the big screen displaying the album artwork.
I am just looking at the FRAME for art whilst listening to sound from my Rega/Focal pairing (fed by NODE2i).... Works :)
i'm hoping someone will help me, will i get the same audio quality using apple tv as a music streamer instead of wiim pro? i can only get one @ the moment.
Spotify run from the Amazon 4k fire Stick on my LG TV plays gapless playback. However the Spotify app on the LG TV didn't play gapless playback. very odd but very true. The sound quality is different also, even though both were connected to my amp via Toslink into my Chord 2qute DAC. I'm really enjoying your exploration of streaming music through a TV, because this is what I want to explore more of. I feel I could do better than my existing set up. My main questions are do Tidal and Amazon music apps both play gapless playback and CD quality sound?
Hello again John - Itâs funny but I hadnât realised youâd already done this when I commented on your earlier video on this subject, before youâd tried out an Apple TV and you were testing out the other Samsung. Whether or not you get chance to read that other comment, I think it still holds true that, given the reasons you said you wanted this visual interaction on the big screen, there are much simpler ways of achieving the same (or perhaps better result) without the complications and compromises youâve encountered.
If your primary objective is to give yourself something to visually interact with, both whilst listening and to enhance the music browsing and discovery process you get from using systems like Roon, thereâs a much easier way to have the full Roon experience on a large screen âbetween the speakersâ whilst still allowing Roon to optimise the sound quality to the endpoint being used for the audio playback.
[EDIT: Since my previous (and yes longwinded) comment have found several alternatives worth mentioning for those that donât already know this:
1. If your Smart TV has Chromecast built in, in Roon >Settings>Displays you can display the playing album art (and dynamic lyrics if you want) for any/each Roon Endpoint on that Chromecast device;
2. If not, as you already have a Chromecast dongle thingy, you can do the same as above just by first plugging it into your TV;
3. Nearly all Smart TVâs have or can act as a web browser - in Roon >Settings>Displays just copy the URL and enter this in the TVâs web address bar;
4. As previously stated, using your Apple TV you can use AirPlay to MirrorScreen to show everything youâre viewing in the Roon iOS app on the big screen
In ALL the above options, Roon core is still sending the highest quality audio/data stream possible direct to your Roon endpoint (no 48Khz eARC limitation from your TV) and the TV is just showing video data.
Have also just discovered these new(ish) high end Korean made Streamer/DAC/Pre-amp devices from a brand called HiFi Rose which also can separately output 4k video to your TV from not just CZcams but also the Tidal video content. Not sure if or how itâs Roon Ready integration provides for any video output like the above (which would be good). Maybe worth a look John, if you get chance?]
Hello! Did you enable lossless audio on Apple TV? It is off by default. I had to go to settling sand enable it there.
Problem is youâre using ARC for output. You need a receive or sound processor for this purpose. You only send video to your Samsung frame, audio is sent via various outputs to hour DAC in exact format theyâre in. Being 44/48/96 or whatever else.
Is there a way to let the frame tv go into art mode while listening or are you strictly looking at the album art through preferred streaming service? Wondering how to stream music through the system and just see art on the wall?
The art mode only shows when the tv is in standby mode sadly
nice video as always!!! I think you could also make the samsung frame tv work if using android. I use a samsung tablet as a remote for roon. I`m pretty sure this tv has the smart view setting that lets you mirror the screen of your tablet to the samsung tv. That way you can still see displayed on the screen what you have on your remote on the samsung tablet, without having to fuzz around with your actual streamer settings at all. just basically plug, play and mirror. My setup includes an SOTM-SMS200 as an audio streamer, passing then to a Chord Mojo and then to a raven audio tube amp, I really like how this sounds but definitely a visual component will be greatly appreciated. I have been looking for an option like this, and I recon mirroring the remote screen if you are an android user is the simplest way to go. Would you agree?
Hello, I use an Nvidia Shield with usb audio out directly to my DAC, this seems to avoid any resampling.
I have a A80J, would anyone know what the audio sample rate output of erc is for this TV. Cheers
I would like to know that too. I have a X85J and the audio outputs from an Apple TV 4K to two HomePods in stereo mode. Sounds great!
I am stepping away from my old home cinema receiver to stereo system in steps, with most of our music being streamed from tidal. Initially streaming was done through our Frame tv.
Step one was the speakers (got kef R3s). Negotiating the price I got opportunity to get simple streaming box (arylic based TWA-10B) below original ask price. So streaming is sorted at entry level.
I want the system to be headphone friendly (using my LCD-X extensively in the evenings) and possibly simple.
Final step will be proper streamer + amplifier.
I already tested powernode against my current amplituner+tv - no big difference unless playing mqa. Headphones got way below what I'm getting with my portable dac/amp (hip dac 2).
So now looking at various options:
1. NAD M10 V2 (still need to test)
2. UNITI ATOM (was listening to that and liked it on speakers, not really on headphones)
3. Matrix Audio element I2 + non integrated power amp (as far as I was reading DAC + HP implementation will surpass 1&2, so amp will be the key)
What would be your suggestion?
My feeling is that only option 3 is going to hit all the boxes. I prefer bit darker/warmer but still detailed presentation (favs are rock and electronic). So I am looking at hybrid PAs that will happily drive R3s :)
Like your taste in music. I use youtube music for my music wow you have some real hifi components
Do all new Samsung's say eArc on the HDMI port or is it called HDMI 2?
Nice⊠didnât know Samsung had a Tidal app or that it could run on my QN 90 TV, thxs! Danke
Iâm thinking of getting the Apple TV 4K to go with my Samsung 2022 frame. Can you use voice assistant Siri to turn Frame TV into art mode instead of switching Frame TV Off completely?
Yes, you just switch the apple tv off and it goes into art mode. Either with Siri or using the off button on Siri remote.
Actually you can turn off Dolby Atmos in settings in music app, so you can get gap less and full stereo đ
Fun video! Thanks. Since John talked about Apple Music and how it streams through iOS devices instead of controlling an external streamer, I would like to add this: with an Apple TV hooked up, any iOS device running Apple Music can be used as a âremoteâ for the Apple TV. I am not talking about the App replacing the physical remote, I am talking about a Spotify Connect like way of controlling Apple Music on the Apple TV box.
Indeed I had the same comment, but I think itâs not obvious how to do it, itâs hidden at the bottom of the AirPlay menu, but then the Apple Music iOS app changes the playlist automatically.
I've had Apple TV, for years, and didn't realise Tv remote app existed. Once you get your head round what the IP address is and to port Number is. Works a charm
What do you think of streaming from Mac mini. Something to explore?
I was skeptical about apple tv as my streaming device before but i took the plunge and bought the apple tv 4k to know if the quality was good enough. After all i can still use it as my netflix box if im not happy with the audio quality.
Its really better than spotify even if its just coming from a optical from the tv. tried it via airplay, i dont why but it seems to be better in airplay mode (ifi zen stream). Then paid for spotify app for a month to test through spotify connect, apple music is still better. Glad i bought into apple tv 4k, its my all in one streaming device for a year now.
You are starting to repeat yourself, but I love it.
Great choice in current music JohnâŠ. Fontaines DC are a fantastic band, especially their latest album đđ»
Samsung The Frame does it have a native app for Apple music as the majority of Samsung tvs after 2018? If this is so, why not connect the audio digital output of the tv to a DAC?
Lol.... and I was so excited to find a Apple Airport Express at my local op Shop last week and discover that I could connect it to my old Sansui AU 417 and send it wifi from my iPad Air đ„ł
đ Mr. John Darko's big smile: AppleTV = Gapless for me! đ
Hi Darko, may I ask you a question? What acoustic panel are you using for room treatment? It looks nice as I see in your clip. Thanks in advance
I think there are a few videos about his panels on the channel earlier this year. Good vids
Hi! Iâm from France. Really curious to see what you are going to say about the keff ls60!!!
I really really like your work and your Chanel.
Thank you to share your love of music and high-tech.
Apple Music recently shocked me. Iâve had Tidal since itâs launch, Iâm an avid user of Roon. But Apple Music is hosting the Fabric CD series. And DJ-Kicks. And Boiler Room. It has an entire section dedicated to one of my favorite musical mediums, the DJ set. Now, I e spent years curating my Tidal playlists and such, and Apple Music isnât even close to Roon for at-home playback. But oh boy this content is making it hard.
I have a question: i know that airplay can not do hi res streaming but from one week if i play some hi res content via airplay to my bluesound node the apple music app say that i am appying hi res content. I don t have a dac that can tell my the sample rate so i am asking you if someone have can help me
not sure why but the same thing happens when listening through AirPods. it displays lossless and hi res even though you can't enjoy that quality with those tiny speakers.
Does this go for tidal through roku?
really odd and potentially silly question (so apologies) but i was inspired by you to put plants around my speakers - it looks awesome! is there a minimal distance you would suggest having them both behind the rear port or to the sides? yours look quite snug but it may not matter regarding sound quality?
told you it was odd!!
John, Iâm convinced you are obsessed with gapless. OCD as they say lol đ I enjoy your content and actually purchase some of the products you demonstrate. Cheers đ»
So do you still use the touch screen?
I use Apple Music and Apple 4K TV. Listened to lots of Booka Shade. Cut the Strings ⊠brilliant album.
Children of the Bong â€ïž
It is that an audiophile quality bug zapper? Does it zap in high res audio? We need to know John. Oh yeah, great review.
and is it gapless - if it isn't gapless zapping then I for one am not interested.
I recently bought a 2021 Samsung The Frame. The art feature was the primary selling point for us. Unfortunately the periphery of the screen has noticeable blotches that drive me crazy. Tried two units, and it was present in both...
I have tried comparing my FLACs to my Spotify streams but they are usually always a different release of the album, making a real comparison impossible.
48khz max resolution?
If you have an NAD M10v2 or NAD M33 connected to the TV,just switch to the hdmi channel where the NAD its connected and the TV would show the album and so on playing trough blueos.
I also like the real time lyric scroll on Apple Music. Iâm simple like that.
Same. Hope they do it for all tracks. Sometimes i like to sing along in my head.
You remember how strong those Cd booklets smelled? It always surprised me how strong that smell was!
That song at 4:16 so good :D
Same sentiments! Any idea what is it?
This exact TV with the Apple 4K TV is exact the same setup I want! Thanks for the review. đđŒ
John, you should try the nVidia Shield TV. It is not expensive, plays up to 192 KHz and even does video upscale.
Darko, when You release LS60 review?
We canât wait so long đ€
got some nice stock music that sounds liek tinariwen
It is possible to connect the chromecast with google tv directly to a dac via a usb c dongle, the chromecast has a sample rate of 96 KHz. So that's one way of getting higher quality audio. Just letting You know. đ