Forget about SPOTIFY HI-FI: build YOUR OWN streaming service with ROON ARC
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 5. 07. 2024
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đ„ Camera: Olaf von Voss
đŹ Editor: John Darko
đșđ» Motion GFX: John Darko
đ° Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
đ My listening room in 2022:
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đ” Song IDs? Playlists of all music heard in this video - and other videos - can be found on PATREON: / johndarko
0:00 Intro + Roon refresher
3:01 Streaming in the street
6:34 ARC's killer feature
8:59 Minor niggles + final thoughts
13:01 Outtakes
A short film about Roon ROCK
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10 more thoughts on Roon ROCK + Intel NUC
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Roon hardware requirements
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Roon TV Remote app
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Sony WH-1000XM5
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Bowers & Wilkins Px7 S2
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Google Pixel 6
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Apple iPhone 13 Mini
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Inside the Roon ARC streaming app w/ Roon CEO Enno Vandermeer
đ§ darko.audio/2022/09/podcast-r...
A short film about Plex + Plexamp
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#roon #spotify #hifi
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When ARC came out, I didnât think I would care to use it. However, I am a convert!
Some of the straightforward reasons:
1- Sound quality is fantastic - if you connect a DAC to an iPhone you will get full resolution
2- The full curation of my library is now available everywhere - I spend a lot of time tweaking my library, grouping albums, etc
3- All my albums, including many that do not exist on streaming services available to me anywhere
And now the amazing unexpected benefits:
4- Have full information of what I own on the road - so if I find a CD version of a release that I want at a store and cannot remember if I have it, I can immediately check
5- I have been adding a âVinylâ tag in Roon to albums I have on vinyl. So now I can not only see and search my vinyl collection at home, but I can also see what I have anywhere - invaluable when shopping for vinyl!
PS: Even more ideas:
6- Add tags for location of the vinyl record at home
7- Add a tag âVinyl I Must Haveâ for when I am shopping for records (I tend to blank out)
Very smart adding the vinyl tag to songs. I'm going to start doing that to help with shopping for music.
Are you joking? Arc is awful for curation - you cant even remove a track from your library on arc
All those features you mention are available to you whether you have roon or not. Still don't understand why anybody would pay for a service you already have functionality to do for free
yep its puuurrfect!
@@zekiy6597 I donât use ARC to curate, I use it to see what I curated on the go. And you can remove albums using ARC.
This will change my use of vinyl ripping. Iâve got quite a few LPs (Japanese electronics and jazz etc) which I only tend to listen to on my record player so no point ripping them for home listening. Now, Iâll do high quality rips of them so I can listen to them out of the house. I can tag them to make them easy to find in Roon so I donât need to remember the artist or album names. Powerful stuff.
Now I've figured out how to configure my router, I'm going to get 10 times the use out of my Roon subscription. Good stuff!
I'm so glad I opted for a Roon lifetime subscription before they raised the price on in.
This channel has made me rediscover my love of music. Thank you.
I love Roon so much. Has been a great discovery. Utter game changer for finding music, organising music and enjoying high quality streaming music. Brilliant.
I should have done this sooner. This review triggered me to ditch Spotify and sign up to trial subscriptions of Qobuz & Roon. I cleaned up my old 2013 Mac (which holds over 2000 of my old albums) and installed Roon Core. Also installing Roon on my iPad Pro and Roon Arc on my Samsung S21 Ultra, after 20mins core had pulled in all my albums and linked my Qobuz account without any issues - so easy. This is where the magic started. The Roon interface just needs to be experienced, introducing me to loads of features and new album recommendations that i just donât get from spotify. Consumed In Key by Plastikman & Chilly Gonzales & Days Gone By, Bob Moses to name just a couple which is currently streaming in HiRes on my Bluesound Powernode. I took Roon Arc for a spin this morning using Ibasso in ear headphones and Ibasso DC04 DAC and again the interface has got me hooked. Thanks Darko Iâm a Roon convert.
I cant leave Spotify. I like the ecosystem too much. But it really is getting annoying. Spotify promised hi-fi looooong ago and they need to deliver.
Same here. Iâm paying Apple Music (which I only use with my Hifi system) and Spotify (for everything else), which is extremely annoying.
Love the Spotify ecosystem, but their lack of commitment with their HiFi promises makes me question if the hassle is worth it
@@G-rig6969 That's true, but much of the music I like IS on Spotify and not on Tidal. And that's really unfortunate!
I stream Spotify 320kbps to Chord Mojo 2/Poly and listen via Beyerdynamic Amorim Home headphones. Sounds amazing, also have tidal which sounds better but both still very good.
Yeah I felt the same and then I got too angry about broken hifi promises and moved to Tidal. I missed Spotify for a good couple of months, but not anymore.
Spotify is great because there are public playlists e.g. created by radio music journalists. Unfortunately I started using Roon and I I had to switch to Tidal. Ok I can pay for both but I really don't like paying to much for very similar services.
For me Spotify is great! â€ïžBut Roon...
The elephant in the room is that Roon needs a relatively high performance computer running 24/7. Plex(Amp) runs great with a Raspberry Pi 4.
Not necessarily, I'm running my Roon core on a QNAP NAS that isn't very powerful. Granted it slows to a crawl when upsampling to DSD but I never touch that anyway.
But when you say Roon costs as much as Spotify, thatâs kind of irrelevant because paying for Roon is 14.99/month plus you would need to pay for a streaming service anyway like Qoboz or Tidal, which would set you back another 10-15/month.
Would you consider a follow up - film? A trouble shooting video about setting up ARC? Explaining the actions required on your router to allow the outside in ?
I'd like to see that too. I spent almost 2 days trying to get ARC to work without success.
iTunes Match is a cheaper option with less (none) options, but it does allow one to stream CDs that arenât available on Apple Music itself through the same app on the road.
ROON ARC has solved my issues with Qobuz and PLEXamp. I love the ROON ARC interface and that it offers such a better user interface on the go, not just high quality audio. There is definitely a little bit of setup that needs to occur to get it tweaked to your liking.
Just downloaded it on my phone. I am going to say this is really cool. I only use ROON at home with my FLAC rips (I cancelled my Tidal and Qobuz services as I rarely used them), so now I have my music all the time. Thanks again!
Totally agree. This was the feature I was waiting for/dreaming of. So glad it is here.
Great in depth video, this explains Roon very good, better than I could find on the net! This might pull the trigger for me, vielen dank!
Ill love ARC once I get it working! Glad to see youâre still enjoying chill out !
Great video, Roon Arc sounds ideal for me given the amount of CD singles I have ripped. Really good review, thank you!
This sounds like a great route back owning our own music collections, which was always part of the pleasure of purchasing music back in the day đđ»
Try Plexamp thank me later does everything Roon does but better and cheaper.
Thanks so much for yet another delightful/informative video. Like you, I chose to go with a lifetime Roon subscription and that was before v 2.0. My personal collection is also one that has a lot of music not available on streaming services. I love that I can now share some of that content with friends when I am visiting their homes. My only comment is that you might have mentioned that Roon Support is doing a very good job of helping people get their home network configured to work with Roon Arc. I am tech comfortable, but still made use of the online help to get my mesh router configured.
Great video, as always! I am so happy about Arc - it finally frees me up from having to use other interfaces for listening to music. This is the killer feature for me: only one interface no matter where I am, one favorites list, one single set of playlists. Love it!
Personally I donât have any music on hard drives at all, but this might change thatâŠ
I have the same core requirement, my killer feature that I've been wanting for ages - one interface for all my music - but unfortunately for me where I differ from you is that when travelling I don't stream, I convert all of my lossless CD rips and downloads to AAC 320kbs and store the whole lot in Apple Music on my iPhone. If/when Roon adds the ability to compress file downloads (in the same way that it can already compress streaming content) then I will be able to reach the same audio nirvana as you, one interface everywhere (and me not having to compress and re-tag files myself to create my AAC shadow copies). Until then I'm sitting on the side lines watching intently for every new version of Roon ARC that is released.
Roon Arc is fantastic, what an innovative and value packed new feature. All I had to do was to open a port on my provider router. Love that I can access my records and Roon playlists everywhere. Never regretted my lifetime subscription, even better now.
I use roon and I didnt realize ARC was a thing until I watched this today. Thank you very much, this is absolutely amazing and my Roon software already has it setup which is great.
Thanks for the great video, John. That explained it nicely. I was struggling to see the point of ARC before, but your examples got me thinking...(and wanting!)
Your brilliant mate. Long time subscriber keep up the AMAZING work.
Great video - Thank you, John! I have been using Roon Arc since the first day it became available. I love the flexibility it brings along with all the features you mentioned. One feature that is not yet available is Integration with Apple Car Play. I understand that is being targeted for a future release. For those of us who like to have our music with us as we drive that will be a very welcome feature.
Good video. I've been pretty blown away by ARC- I bit the bullet on Roon lifetime a few months ago and it's been so rewarding to get such an immense upgrade. It's not perfect, but, especially considering it's v1.0, it's very impressive.
I've been using Plex for several years and love the freedom it gives. Does Roon offer any real benefits over Plex? Is sound quality better, for instance? I would love to see a direct comparison of the two.
Great video!! I am now more interested in exploring streaming. I canât help notice those awesome looking Mission loudspeakers. đđ»
Bienvenido a España! I hope you have great holiday and thank you for your reviews.
Hi John great as usual, I use a synology nas disk station to store my ripped cd's, I also have loads of 7.5" reel to reel tapes that I have converted to flac files, you can access them on most devices via dsaudio app and also via streammagic app for my streamer!
Hi John. Once again, a great video. One possible use for your audience. Some of us are âreturning to officeâ and having to switch out Roonâs better interface, AI and discovery at home for Tidal in the office. And yes, I could load a Roon core on my work laptop, or carry my personal laptop but thatâs not really ideal. Sounds like Roon ARC solves this problem.
Thanks John, another informative and interesting subject đđ». Your channel is the only one I subscribe to where the ads kick in at the ad break. I'm so sick and tired of YT bombarding me with ads. Unlike Netflix and other subscription services, YT doesn't create the content but is nevertheless trying to monetize the platform. How much money do these buggers need??
Used it today for the first time. Plugged my iPhone into my car and listened without any problems. Love the App.
It's exciting without question!
I love Roon and ARC! Game changing stuff!
Great album rip choices. I think you are displaying your rave roots there..
This is great. I've a ton of CD and vinyl rips and dark-corner-of-the-internet downloads that are definitely not on any streaming service. Thanks for sharing!
Those dark-corner-of-the-internet downloads is a unique generational item many youngsters will never experience haha! I have a big library of music as well and this solution is ideal. I may have to bite the bullet and pay up now! :)
This sounds great. I'd be interested in learning more about the differences between this and Plex Amp.
Once I got the port forwarding issue sorted out ( needed a fixed ip address from my provider), haven't looked back. Loving the car rides even more. I find the sound quality to be way better than qobuz or tidal. 256kbps on roon arc sounds cleaner and more musical than lossless qobuz/tidal. My hard drive at home is connected to a high end usb card and that might have something to do with the improved sound quality. Well, this has been a long time coming and it's a real blessing for music lovers. Thank you Roon. Ofcourse there's always room for improvement and android auto/carplay would just complete the package!
Set all the great content aside , youâve introduced me to some really great music most notably Brendon Moeller, youâre a great DJ
Roon ARC was the only reason I hadnât ponied up for the software. Now that itâs here, Iâm all in.
Mission!! Can't wait!
Apple Music with iTunes can Upload your private catalog of music in Lossless or AAC in the Apple iCloud to be streamed and/or downloaded through Apple Music interface, without compromising the personal space of iCloud that the user has. I already have 80GB of music with this function. You can even mix playlist with your personal music and Apple Music catalog.
iTunes Match!
Well done John.
Thanks for sharing đ
Nice, I've had Roon for awhile and sort of miss alot of stuff when I'm out and about like my playlists.
Warning for Carrier Grade NAT. Roon ARC will not work if your internet provider uses CG NAT. You can download any albums you have stored locally to your phone, but, you cannot stream from the server unless connected to your home's WiFi. Roon is absolutely amazing and worth it for me. Cannot wait for the solution to this problem
I've always wanted access to my (ridiculously) large library outside of my house. This is amazing. I'm sure the app will improve over time.
Love your podcast man ⊠love it from AustraliaâŠhope you get bigger .half the stuff i donât understand but itâs great ⊠reallly good listen
Luckily, in the US, many have unlimites data. Just installed the arc. Excited.
Thanks again for another excellent video. It is sad to know that some of the great music I am listening to via Tidal may actually be inferior to the original master. I believe you have previously mentioned that a lot of remasters are more compressed which limits the dynamic range. Is that the problem as you see/hear it? Thanks.
Love your take on Roon Arc. I love it also and am about to offload Plexamp.
Amazing new update and free new app feature. Awesome....
I use Roon but I cannot use ARC unfortunately.
Our internet is provided by Starlink (we live in a very rural location where there is no fibre or copper internet) and Starlink uses CGNAT which prevents any port forwarding etc so you simply cannot access anything on your home network from outside it.
So...no ARC unless you actually download the tracks to the phone before leaving home.
Had the same issue ->Tailscale is your friend. ;)
Iâm an Apple fan the Apple TV hdmi to my Yamaha Aventage reciever sounds great especially the spatial audio selections. I can turn on party mode and as I move around it sounds great everywhere
I like that Darko might take his phone to a friends house, and they might not let him onto their wifi.
I just went with an iPhone 14 w/1TB of storage. My library is in Apple Music (iTunes Match) and after downloading all 25,267 songs, I still have 349GB free space. Music was downloaded at lossless quality. I first tried downloading at Hi-Res Lossless but was left with a little over 110GB free space. Either way, that's a lot of music to have anywhere I go and not have to worry about streaming or data plans. So for me, despite the high cost of the phone, it's less expensive and less complex than setting up ROON.
Yes, I didn't understand why Roon Arc was so amazing from the video - as an Apple Music subscriber, anything I add to my library is streamable and downloadable almost instantly to any of my devices.
Tried it Plexamp is way ahead especially with the DJ algorithm, it is far beyond ahead of Roon. Also Roon misses tons of stuff when indexing, on Plexamp I just make sure my albums are processed through Picard first and then upload, Roon still misses these How? In addition with the discount we get with Tidal there is no beating my 192K experience at home and anywhere I go.
Thank you for telling your impressions.
Same, it blows my mind people are paying $15 a month for roon, plex with plexamp is amazing.
This is very intriguing to me
I always love the way put things in common terms. I do have almost 2 TB of heavy metal and power metal mostly in flac format. I keep updating my phone and use a blutooth DAC Astell Kern XB10 to listen to them. Since I am from India, Roon is expensive at present unless they come out with special prices made for our region. Is there any other way to stream the music using my backup ? Data rates are cheap in India, so it is economical to listen to high bit rate songs online.
Welcome, to the past? I thoroughly enjoy your videos and attitude towards music and audio gear. Very insightful and helpful. I would like to note though that in late 2012 I purchased a Synology DiskStation and the same unit has been running without issue to this day. I installed DS Audio and DS Video and have been able to stream music (supports FLAC, M4A (non-alac) M4B, MP3, WAV, and Ogg Vorbis) or videos to my cell phone ever since and download music or videos to take with me as I choose. I do not have Roon today but if this is easier to use/maintain (not that managing the DiskStation is difficult) I might look into it.
+1. Do you really need room to download your files to your phone while on the move (to prevent data costs) ?!
Plexamp versus Roon please. Keep up the great work
Weâll Arc was a good idea. I had to change my home network to get it to work, but the the Roon airplay became very unreliable, despite it working with Apple Music. So I ditched Arc, and swapped back my network to the original settings. The reliable AirPlay was more important than the remote listening using ARC. Never got a response from tech support. Also 2.0 has to have internet access all the time, unlike 1.8
Oh man, I used to spin several tracks from FSOL - Accel. in the early 90s in San Francisco (vinyl)! So pleased to be reminded of it and found it on TIDAL. PNG is still a classic, and WOC is still hauntingly beautiful; haven't heard either in 10+ years; thanks, John! The The's Mind Bomb is on TIDAL (two versions to boot'; never heard of the album and so much of your music John; great stuff - thank you!)
Looking forward to the Mission 770 review!
Dear John,
do you have a backup of your hard drive? If not I strongly suggest you do so.
On the roon arc thing, I do have Plex lifetime pass because of your recommendation of Plex. Right now I donât see what makes roon arc better then Plex. And Plex is much cheaper. Also if you use symbology nas, you do have both: data security, regarding drive failure and a Plex server
Two back ups. Even with all the original CDs ripping again takes a lot of hands on time. Transferring vinyl is real time transfers.
I never thought I would bother with ARC. I used Qobuz when on the move. This was OK but not always straight forward to find what I wanted. In Roon ARC, my Qobuz albums are there alongside my own rips and organised in a way that is intuitive to me. I can also, relatively easily, move from listening to something at home to listening on the move and then back again (it would be great if Roon made this even easier!). Where I live the mobile data plans are generous and the coverage is OK for my regular journeys. The download function will be of some use for the longer journeys and I out of range of the mobile phone networks.
Roon is worth the price for me as well as everything covered here with Roon I can play hi-res files my Sonos cannot play natively as it converts the file down to a sample rate Sonos can read. so now donât need to replace my kitchen speaker and buy one that can play 24 bit 96kHz, yes that would sound better but this is for my kitchen.
Roon ARC still needs some work, but its a great addition to the Roon platform. Access to my music, anywhere. Fantastic. Excellcent video by the way.
Interesting video. I was considering getting Roon a while ago and checked their prices. I noticed that they advertised their annual price as 'save 30%', when it was actually only a saving of 23%. I thought this must have been an innocent mistake, so I pointed it out on their forum expecting them to apologise and correct the error. Instead they said they could claim the discount was whatever percentage they liked, regardless of reality. After that I decided I wouldn't give them any money. They still haven't changed their advertising.
U can upload your own music with apple music as integrates apple match
This would also come though on your apple tv and not require yet another subscription
So you would have hi res audio, music videos, dolby atmos music AND your own uploads for ÂŁ10 per month!
I've always found Roon products cool when people present them, but then I check the pricing and my enthusiasm dies down.
And then there's this big kicker: "Roon does not support Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, Amazon HD Music, or CZcams Music."
So very limited support for streaming services, and if you can't/don't want to use those options it's only a music player with remote storage.
I guess there is value if you have more than 1TB of music you want to access remotely, because SD cards get quite expensive at that point.
I'd be interested if price wasn't an issue, but 13$ a month added on top of the actual streaming services...
Drop the bloopers. Iâm already ready for my next video in the queue⊠đ(If this was the movie Cannonball Run, it would be a different opinion.)
Love the channel though. Keep âem coming.
Hi John. Just wanted to drop a quick comment on the latest beta feature for Roon Arc that now includes a custom USB driver for bit perfect playback on android and IOS. Apologies if you've already covered elsewhere.
I hope you have the contents of the HD backed up safely !!
I revelled in this freedom years ago with the rebirthed audiogalaxy (which Dropbox bought and decommissioned). Been looking for something like this ever since.
John (and team!) great video, again.
Iâve been interested in Roon for quite a while but have struggled to justify the cost (and additional technical challenges/cost for a Roon Core).
I have a NAS drive (Synology) and can do all these things that Roon/Roon Arc does through the DS Audio (and others) app. I can download music to my iPhone (also via tidal and Apple Music I believe?) as well as listen in native ripped CD quality. Both Apple Music and Tidal also have some form of âradioâ functionality to enable music discovery. So Iâm not sure what Roon adds here? Other than the excellent interface? Happy to be challenged! Thanks again. Enjoy your well earned break.
A video on the do's and don'ts of ripping cds would be great! I seem to have variable levels of success : S
A friend of mine left his hi-fi and CD collection. The hi-fi went to one of his sons. I took the CDs and transferred the 200 albums of classical music to the computer used by his wife. Although now 82 she took to using Windows Media Player and was able to stream the library from the study room computer to the small form factor PC in the lounge. She listens to many albums a day find music she never realised her husband had collected and loved. I had previous set up PLEX and a smaller selection of albums, but they didn't use it. Windows Media player also gives access to photographs and videos. I use Devialet Phantoms, B&O Level and B&O Emerge speakers to play back the tracks, selecting what to play on their apps. Over wi-fi there is no compression of the wave and flac files. Bluetooth is not needed.
I have not tried streaming from my home computers whist on holiday. Wi-fi was not good enough to do that on my month trip around India. I was able to connect, set up off air recordings for the next week and download more audio tracks to my tablet. Videos were too big and dropped out before downloading. An automatic reboot of the PC meant that my daughter had to run the remote login program. I took a portable 3Tb hard drive with the Windows 8" tablet.
Hola I am using Roon application, mainly for quality purposes. I am finding Roon improves audio. For a low quality like internet radio, Roon achieves to make an acceptable sound. Roon Arc doesn't matter for me, each one could join community for different reasons.
and also: is there gapless playing in ARC? can I listen to Strauss's Zarathustra with ARC in the street without interruptions between parts? another important feature to consider especially for classical music lovers
I hope all of that rare music is well backed up
Talking of Masters, I'm sure there was an early video of yours where you refer to a site that discusses the quality of a recording. Part of the conversation was the fact that many newer remasters were just shoddily done to up the volume somewhat, perhaps to enhance poorer listening habits like cheap IEMs and low quality streaming.
Which video was this on? Am I correct in my recollection? Cheers
Thanks now I'm hooked!! How did you get Roon to display on your Frame TV? Likely kissing Sonos good bye :)
Great video John, thank you! now I will try roon, that should be now the alternative of ITunes Match iâm waiting for:-) by the way .. Iâm still using T-comâs streaming option here in Germany for my mobile Data, which means no data volume will be used for music streaming services:-)
I knew youâd be tackling this subject as soon as I read the Roon 2.0 email. I have enjoyed your increased video output, but am curious what spurred the change.
As much as I love Roon and Roon ARC I'm finding it unstable and inefficient when I'm on the go. Sometimes it works great and other times it can't connect.
Lately the app is crashing on my iphone 14 Pro Max and after starting the app 3 or 4 times it stays open and works.
Iâm a true believer in Roon and now Arc. I do have a question a bit off topic. I use my Nucelus as a streamer, wondering if you have tried your Nucelus as a streamer and what you thought of the SQ? Wondering if a separate streamer is worth the investment? Iâve been very happy with this set up but always chasing possible improvements. Thanks
Mind bomb The The. Is still available on Apple music. Both the original and the digitally remastered version.
So if i were to integrate say a Bluesound Vault would i be able to roughly duplicate what you have done here...Excellent videos by the way..super informative....FYI I am also an audiophile what likes electronica music
đ€đTHANKS JOHN, FOR YOUR MUSIC đ¶ SUGGESTIONS ANDâŠ.SHOWING WHY IT IS THE BEST TIME TO BE AN AUDIOPHILE đđđđ
And the outtakes đ
Which version of Mind Bomb is this Master version you refer to? Have it on vinyl(purchased when released) and cd bought I don't know when. Hate to be missing something as love this album. If only there was a new hi res version of soul mining!
Another nice video! :) John, I'll be in Berlin next week; mostly in MItte. Can you recommend a record store in that area?
definitely interesting! but you need to stress a bit more the fact that the nucleus has to be always on, either it's a computer or a mini PC or whatever, including all the hard disks have to be always on and connected.. not really safe if you leave for several days... but overall an amazing feature!
Now I'm going to book a vacation just to listen to my files somewhere else.
I run Roon Core on my NAS. Runs good.
I find plex is a much better value with plexamp. It even has the ability to select the quality for downloads and streams in plexamp, AND you can use it to stream videos in the regular plex app, for a MUCH lower price than roon ($120 lifetime right now). It does sonic analysis and mixes randomized playlists (not gapless albums thankfully), and also has mood or style based radios (again from music analysis) that are generally OK.
The only downside to plex is that there are no audio streamers that I know of that it can remotely control like roon with its endpoints. You are pretty much stuck with having to operate the device that streams which is going to be an android box or a PC (raspberry pi included). You can remotely control plexamp on those though. Oh and chromecast of course.
I agree. It's a better value.
A review of Sonic Analysis would be great and a comparison to Roon AI
This is awesome for ROON to make their personalized streaming app. But, I'm sticking with Plexamp for now since I paid for the lifetime subscription.