Masochism: Borderlines, Psychopaths Self-trash
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 04. 2021
- Psychopaths: no switching and self-trashing promiscuity.
Sexual Masochism: Self-trashing in BPD, Cleckley (psychopathy).
Feeling bad/trashed leads to sexual arousal.
Self-trashing strategies:
Despoiling
Cheating (shame, guilt, immoral “bad object”)
Substances
Inappropriate mates
Cluster B personality disordered patients are goal oriented.
All goals forms of supply: abandonment (BPD), sadistic narcissistic supply (NPD), money-sex-power (AsPD).
Each personality disorder has its own form of Supply:
HPD (Histrionic PD) - Derive their supply from their heightened sexuality, seductiveness, flirtatiousness, from serial romantic and sexual encounters, from physical exercises, and from the shape and state of their body;
NPD (Narcissistic PD) - Derive their supply from garnering attention, both positive (adulation, admiration) and negative (being feared, notoriety);
BPD (Borderline PD) - Derive their supply from the presence of others (they suffer from separation anxiety and are terrified of being abandoned);
AsPD (Antisocial PD) - Derive their supply from accumulating money, power, control, and having (sometimes sadistic) "fun".
Borderlines, for instance, can be described as narcissists with an overwhelming fear of abandonment. They are careful not to abuse people. They do care deeply about not hurting others - but for a selfish motivation (they want to avoid rejection).
Borderlines depend on other people for emotional sustenance. A drug addict is unlikely to pick up a fight with his pusher. But Borderlines also have deficient impulse control, as do Antisocials. Hence their emotional lability, erratic behavior, and the abuse they do heap on their nearest and dearest.
There is a huge difference between promiscuity and sexual self-trashing.
Self-trashing is always compulsive, promiscuity is not (though it is sometimes impulsive and situational).
Promiscuity is an active role and is often experienced as an empowering lifestyle choice or a conquest. It boosts the participants’ self-esteem and their inner locus of control.
In contrast, self-trashing is masochistic, self-punitive, passive, and is chiefly intended as an anxiolytic (anxiety ameliorating) and antidepressant activity. It is self-medication via temporary, self-loathing sexual self-annihilation.
In self-trashing, the preliminaries (flirting, courting, dating) are perfunctory, minimal, or nonexistent: sex is the first move, not the culmination. The self-trasher actually ends up bedding unattractive mates as a way to further despoil and degrade herself. She typically engages in kinky, reckless, or extreme sexual acts in the first few minutes with unknown strangers.
Alcohol and drugs frequently precede both types of sex. But the promiscuous use substances to disinhibit themselves while the self-trashing leverage the same to numb themselves often to the brink of a blackout or unconsciousness.
Finally, promiscuity is usually ego-syntonic. Self-trashing is always ego-dystonic. Self-trashers describe the sex as cursory, disappointing, objectifying, “disgusting”, “unpleasant”, or “uncomfortable”. Many of them report shame, regret, anger, disappointment, and guilt, emotional blunting, and an increase in anxiety and depression after the act.
Find and Buy MOST of my BOOKS and eBOOKS in my Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/stores/page/60...
The change is abrupt, so quick you do not realize one person has left and another has taken its place. The eyes and face change, vacant, dark, tortured features take hold. Someone you know is another being entirely, this realization is terrifying. This person doesn't love you or even know you and they want you obliterated, just as they had been. All the while to know you are a mirror image of this dysfunction and hell truly is a cherry on top. To end the addiction one must leave. if you continue to play with a predator, eventually it will end you.
Incredible comment! I know exactly what you mean, unfortunately.
pro tip: watch series at Flixzone. I've been using them for watching a lot of movies recently.
@Damien Dalton Yup, have been using Flixzone for months myself :)
Wow so true exactly
I agree. Saw it myself. I knew at that moment he was a very disturbed person. I was already on my way out.
„They feel bad when they feel good and they feel good when they feel bad.“
Wow. So accurate.
Woe to those that change bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Bpd with masochism... So very on point. The unattractive mates and depraved acts followed by shame and the acting to pursue relationships destined for abuse and or failure.
this all reminds me of the song "I'm only happy when it rains" by Garbage. These are some lyrics:
Pour your misery down on me
You can keep me company
As long as you don't care
I'm only happy when it rains
You wanna hear about my new obsession?
I'm riding high upon a deep depression
I only smile in the dark
My only comfort is the night gone black
I didn't accidentally tell you that
I'm only happy when it rains
Every human being is an abyss, it makes you dizzy when you look down.
I got to know a BPD the stuff that went on shocked me from old men to spas with multiple people and dangerous situations that would frighten most women . If her friends didn’t have big mouths I would never know , Yet she was a loving mum attractive and had a good job ! Every now and then she would cause a fight and go missing for a few hours or sometimes days 😢 you can’t help someone that won’t drink from the help tap
That explains why he said to me "Thank you for hating me"
Sad af
SO SO HELPFUL! REALLY unpacks things that I have experienced with certain people I thought I could "go there" with, only to realize there are some true clinical things happening and fragmentation that is far too deep for anyone to get too close to
Omg
I came upon this and I knew something was oddly connected about these behaviours . The confusing part is that you wouldn't think that someone with ASPD would choose degradation, but more likely sadism. It is in the abstract and uncomfortable you discover it is all weirdly connected, yet opposite to what most would recognize or imagine. Thank you for breaking it down, it has helped me process this odd feeling that somehow they were connected, such a bizarre thought to have with out the proper data. I now have more knowledge and tools to navigate. Also I came across some information that Hitler was very much this type of person. I won't get into details because it makes me sick to think about and/or write.
It's also a behavior that's the hardest to rid off. Bc BPD/ED may at times self resolve or calm down with decades of comings and goings, self trashing is a behavior that's definitely like self medicating. A castigating of low self regard, avoiding lonliness, guilt, or whatever it may be. BDSM is a great segue. At least for me.
It's great revisiting these posts.
Dear Mr Vaknin!
I heard some of your lectures about different topics, where sex is mentioned from a lot of different angles. They are very intersting and I learn a lot. I never though heard even one word of prostitution which I believe plays a big part in modern society and probably in some personality disorders I could imagine. Could you make a lecture about it or mention it in a future lecture. What kind of people work as sex workers, what kind of people go there ? Especially in this lecture I feel it could have been mentioned. Has it nothing to do with self trashing ? Thank you !
Jesus went to the prostitutes and the sick, just a thought
This lecture is so insightful. Thank you!
I adore being a sub. Love it with someone who I can trust.
sounds so heavy to bear, but for them it is euphoric. will they ever burn out, can they?
This one hit hard on that truth scale. I have said for a long time that shame and negative emotions were very much tied into my sexual expression and the whole self trash thing makes so much sense! I am not a cheater tho... Not physically anyway.
Don't kid yourself. Emotional cheating is just as bad
@@humanoidbastard673 I actually agree. I was just disagreeing with his view. I have made emotional connections in the past outside of relationships that lacked healthy connection that I understand it would have been better to just walk away instead of wait for something to change on the other person's end.
@@theblendedborderlineyou should probably change.
@@z32luvr And I have.
When i was still pretty little (12 maybe) I decided that if I would ever turn out like my mother, hurting people, I would kill myself. I built an enormous emotional muscle, and learned how to dissociate and withdraw in time. If I lost it, I had an overarching filter over what I said or did, no matter what state I was in. I found people that support me and I can run reality checks by. I healed enormously in time, reparented, been though mortification twice (it is just by chance I didn't kill myself the first time), and I am pretty sure I recovered my real self the second time, after days of excruciating pain. Personal decisions matter, persevierence pays off, and when you look hard enough, you find both answers and your own inner lost children. I learned that all the split fragments just need love and acceptance and never flinch anymore, no matter how twisted they look and feel when I unburry them. The more you practice going through the pain to find parts of yourself, the easier it gets. Or at least, you know this time is the last time for that pain to happen. And all this process is worthwhile, and the alternative is to sleep with death and feel you live on borrowed time anyway...
Ty for writing this, it helped ease my sorrow. This is alchemical writing ❤🌹🦄
Best example of borderline switching is Amber Heard. Especially her facial features.
If the borderline reaches the age where their disorder is no longer diagnosable, no more bpd, does the masochistic side of them described in your video completely go away too, or will they always be cheaters, always put themselves in risky situations with the wrong type of people, always do drugs, always cut themselves, etc.? More specifically, this is an exgf who is an escort, heroin addict, a cheater, a cutter, who seemingly thrives on conflict and creating drama, has no accountability nor integrity, and of course lies anytime she communicates.
My fiancé can now tell when I’m splitting based on my facial changes and I’m Not happy about it. “your eyes are getting squinty, uh oh.” He says my forehead furrows and I squint my eyes... little does he know my whole body feels like it’s on 🔥
Switching, not splitting.
@@samvaknin Can you explain differences between the two because I got them mixed up too. Splitting compartmentalizes and switching changes entire personality I believe?
Omg
How is it that self trashing leads to sexual arousal ? Sex is a biological and violent reaction to avoid physical dead?
( I mean biological sexual arousal)
I am Borderline and was married for 27 years with 4 children...I have never cheated in my whole life..... but my partner did, twice infact .....I don't think I have masochism at all just pure love..like deep love is what I like to feel...but I have always used substance abuse...I don't know but maybe my marriage lasted so long is because I was not diagnosed BPD until I was 50 and I am now 55...I hardly leave my house and numb out so I do not have to think...I am finding it hard to forgive my parents as they do not believe I am mentally unwell..thats just another stab in the heart...I wonder what is worst, finding out you are BPD at a young age or when you are older? To look back at fifty years and to see it is extremly hard to get your head around...Life changing.....I would really be interested to what you think about the age you find out? I have not slept around either....really interesting stuff thanks...
p.s I definately self trash..I do not take care of myself or my home...the guilt/shame I feel is hugh and that leads me to self isolate..
@@KingEdwardMD I dont lie!...Not everyone with Bprderrline are the same...Tell me your story? Why you so angry? You dont even know me!
@@deothangSame... I'm totally isolated, I have no friends, no partner (never had actually) just keep in contact with close family, I'm in my mid 20 and I'm looking to get the diagnosis, I fit the criteria so much but it's hard and scary... I feel so hopeless
Dr Vaknin in the case of sexaddiction- are we talking self degrading self punishment and emotion regulation and are sex addicts hence borderliners and or psychopaths? Or is the intent behind the sex addiction what makes someone a psychopath or borderliner or a narc? Are all sex addicts dsmV?
Search the 2 sexuality playlists.
@@samvaknin will do thank you
Ok, so they will sexual self trash by being degraded and used.
What about the male? If he's usually a sadist? He's not being sexually trashed?.
Would he pick up junkies and hookers?
i am curious what distinctions could be made between these self-trashing self-annihilation tendencies and spiritual paths of surrender and devotion. i am unsure where to draw a line.
I don’t get it, what they have in common?
@@marki57686 the practice of many spiritual paths is something equivalent to ego-annihilation...to willingly surrender....im wondering if there is some virtue to the pathology. isnt self trashing essentially surrender
@@pertonos3851 Ego annihilation comes from self awareness, among other things like meditation and many other practices, eventually leading to unconditional love for oneself and for everyone else and the world itself. It has to do with the energy of life. It has zero to do with a personality disorder that leads to negative and skewed self-speech and destructive behaviors, and which Sam himself described as arising from the energy of death. They are not trying to dissolve the ego for enlightenment, they are trying to temporarily "medicate" their disorder by behaviors which hurt them. Striving for ego death in a healthy manner is quite unlike striving for actual death in a destructive manner.
Perhaps we can think of mental disorders as misguided spiritual energy and channels that otherwise could have resulted in deep spiritual practices of devotion. Just a thought
Are you saying psychopaths don’t rage? It was during the rage when I saw a complete different person.
Psychopathic narcissists do rage.
@@samvaknin Please I want to respond me...Does masochism affect my life of job? I feel depressed when I accomplish something in my work, and I hope to work for others more than me.
Do narcissists self trash?
No. But they self-defeat and self-destruct in other ways. Search the channel.
women aged twelve? really!
I know, what a disappointment to hear Sam say such a thing.
@@marysmith801 maternal enmeshment results in most narcissist men being misogynists
True, that was sad. But he's a narcissist so he doesn't empathise normally
are there any books where we can read abou this?
Yes.