In today’s “my truth” versus “the truth” I believe very little from the media & anything out of Hollywood. I also don’t believe too many people. I guess 68 years of life have given me some wisdom. Great episode. Thanks for sharing your talents & thoughts.
One of my current pet peeves is when somebody says my truth there is one truth and that is the truth. You may have a different viewpoint, but that is different than being the truth
My feeling is that in recent years, through “entertainment”, we, the public, have been being groomed and desensitized. Aggressively. Groomed to lose our grip on right v. wrong. I haven’t watched the show in question, but I don’t even want to say the name of it.
@@robincurle7574Some people find scenes about abuse and violation disturbing. I think it's worse for some that it's a man being abused. I think the series gives the main characters complexity.
Hey Cheere. I love these off the cuff chats. It would be thrilled if you did more. You always bring a perspective that nobody else seems to see. I agree with you and have a lot to think about. Take care ❤
Agreed! You are the perfect person to discuss this Netflix documentary! It's a scary and fascinating story. It's very depressing at first and they go to crazy town fairly quickly!! I haven't formed an opinion yet on what I believe is true so I am looking forward to discussing with you! You are the best! Much Love💕💕💕
I think you have a point. In 1969, when I was 13 years old, I was violated at knifepoint by a horrifying stranger. Although it changed my life profoundly, I could not tell one single soul. Every waking hour I had flashbacks I could've set a clock to, every 15 minutes for decades. I wasn't able to finish school or much else. The first time Telling anyone was when "me too" happened. At that time I was quite shocked to find that other friends I had known many years had somewhat similar experiences, which I had never heard any of them speak of.
I know I’ve commented already- but Fiona outed herself. She went public before the PMorgan interview and said awful things about the lady/actress that was playing her. She then said on PMorgan that she did that bc people had already found out it was her- either way; she made the first move publicly.
You raised some very valid points about the veracity of Richard's account. I watched the show a couple of weeks ago before Fiona Harvey surfaced. I was blown away by the show. I also saw the interview Piers Morgan had with Fiona Harvey, and found her to be a little out there. Richard has admitted that some of the show was dramatized (for example, Fiona never went to prison for stalking him). As always, I think the truth lies somewhere between Richard and Fiona's accounts. I DO think Netflix was wrong for proclaiming the show as a "true story," rather than stating it was BASED on a true story. The show was well-written and acted well enough to stand on its' own merits, without having to proclaim that everything was 100% "true."
My biggest takeaway from the Piers Morgan interview was that the actress nailed the character. The lady didn’t do herself any favours with that interview
Critical thinking skills. There's not a lot of that in today's world. Most people take things at face value. Tell a lie over and over until people begin to believe it. Thank you for bringing this skill and healthy debate back into our lives. This is what we use to learn in our colleges. Today... not so much.
@@cheeredenise People cope with trauma in different ways. It takes a mountain of courage to confess you were a victim especially for a man. The amount of shame a victim feels believing they were weak, which caused their abuse, cannot be dismissed. What Richard has done, by showing his raw-ness is help other victims, especially gay men, seek counselling for their past rapes. Note: Writing "True Story" before a show is an accepted convention for dramas. Richard did not make a Documentary. Netflix is covered by their end disclaimer '...based on true story'. Please see 1996 movie Fargo by the Coen brothers. In the 1st frames are text that says "This is a true story... " The movie is not true! The Coen brothers have stated in interviews that it's not true, they wanted to set a specific tone - however there are some scenes with the wood chipper that actually true.
I too had a family member who asked me to watch it. I thought it was depressing, and the story could have been told in three episodes. The acting was amazing.
I watched it in its entirety and there are a few things I do agree with you on being sus: they absolutely did the bare minimum to protect the real Martha's identity compared to producer- whether the explanation to that is that Gadd lies about abuse or that the producer is intentionally hidden it comes off bad. It's opportunistic in the first case and really damaging in second because it underlines he's willing to sell, not his body, but his trauma this time for fame just as he was doing when he kept going there knowing what the producer does to him while he's out of it.
The woman who she originally stalked for five years who was her ex employer (lawyer’s office), has come forward to confirm Fiona was her stalker and was jailed for it. Richard Gadd in interviews said he had to change the story a bit in order to adapt it to television format but that these things did happen. He said he didn’t expect it to be a success at all and is very overwhelmed by it all. He says his parents haven’t seen the show and he still feels incredibly guilty about all the things he’s put them through. There was another British show also autobiographical and it was about being randomly drugged in a pub and then r@ped. It’s called I Will Destroy You and it was also great but Baby Reindeer is phenomenal.
It’s apparently well known in the entertainment industry who the male abuser is, but no one wants to identify him. Whether social media sleuths have also identified him and also don’t what to name him I don’t know. My main question about this whole programme is why is the stalking, by someone he admits to encouraging at times, the big story while the sexual abuse by someone in a position of power takes a back seat? Surely by any account the abuse he apparently suffered is 100 times worse that being bombarded with emails and such like. It doesn’t add up to me.
There are people who can easily attach themselves to others if you show them the slightest bit of kindness. And in turn if you don’t return their misplaced affection and adoration they turn volatile. The human brain is complicated with how to processes information. A gentle hi from someone could mean just a friendly greeting to one person, to another person it’s saying ‘that person is flirting with me!’.
I'm at the same place where you are, Cheere. From what I've heard, Fiona does have a history of harassing behavior. Piers mentioned her harassment of a woman she worked with for a brief time, and that checks out. The woman brought an injunction against Fiona. It's probably similar to a Cease & Desist Order here in the US. Also, before the Piers interview, she did an interview with a guy at the Daily Mail. He did a follow up article, and said she was now harassing him! Said she had inundated him with phone calls and emails. So I tend to believe Richard that she did actually send him a load of emails, letters, and made a lot of calls. But she has denied ever assaulting anyone, being put on trial, or doing any prison time. So far, there doesn't seem to be any record of those things. I've asked around online about the night she supposedly assaulted Richard's friend. Weren't there any witnesses? Has anyone said they were there that night? So far ...... nothing. Netflix has a real problem on their hands now, because they presented this as a true story, and therefore basically made some claims that they can't back up. I'm also bothered by some of the content creators here on YT, and their rush to pile on Fiona, encouraging a mob mentality, with torches and pitchforks at the ready. Even Richard admitted that he played a part in this by encouraging "Martha," and not going to the police about it soon enough. And there's something else here -- I'm noticing a kind of..... gleefulness.... about some of the posters who say, "See? Men get harassed too! Women do this stuff too!" As though this validates men in some way. It's almost like they WANT Fiona to be the monster she has been depicted to be. I think she's no doubt been guilty of some bad behavior -- but I'd like to find out the truth. Sorry I went on for so long, but this show has provoked some interesting discussion!! Thanks for doing this video, Cheere! 🙂❤️
She has denied sexually assaulting him by the canal. She always mentions the canal. Doesn't mean she didn't SA him somewhere else. Like she denies sending 41,000 emails... she never says she didnt send emails, only that she didn't send 41,000. Very manipulative language.
I appreciate your cynicism and your very fair assessment of the kinda glaring issues that seem potentially “off”- and not trying to invalidate anything I wasn’t there but specifically how it ultimately comes back on Netflix…I was glad Pierce brought her on for that captivating interview 😬 and he was probably some of the best and worst exposure for her.
I disagree that it's odd... The need to go over and work out how to understand is not unusual. It helps. Nanette is a comedy special that also talks about hard things. When things have happened so much that you are used to them and especially when you are healing, it becomes something that is less triggering and / or something you can disconnect from. It rings so true for a lot of the twists of trauma that mostly it's hard to talk about because people don't get it or think it's too dark. There are some really good therapist reactions that go into this.
I viewed the Netflix series after seeing the Piers Morgan interview. I watched the series in one go, it was fascinating in a strangely disturbing way. My conclusion is that the real life 'Martha' is not completely innocent and is probably not a well individual. Mr. Gadd is also a complex and troubled man. Fact or fiction, the series is well acted and worth watching.
Well it's coming out now that she did go to jail for it. Her nephew is releasing the info. He has a facebook page with family pictures info, everything. She changed her last name when she got out of jail. It was Fiona Muir Harvey. He said she lied about EVERYTHING in Piers interview which is true bc she kept changing her story and I caught that. I've watched it several times.
@@cheeredeniseP. S. I wrote the comment above before listening to your opinion. Your breakdown was very insightful and much appreciated. Actually, I think I'm going to have to re-watch the series! 😮
I did finish the show and spoiler alert, he goes back to his abuser in the last episode, and they have a purely professional relationship and I should've put that in ". My take on the net why is that even though this abuser said that it would be a purely professional relationship this time, I don't believe it, and I'm wondering why this guy who wrote the show has to have fame so bad that he would go back to this very man, and act like he is happy about it? I thought that was really really strange anyway I'm glad you're commenting on the show!
Responding to your question: why this guy has to have fame so bad. I put that question/answer in the same ballpark with: Why did so many women put up with Harvey Weinstein abuse and apparently the secret was well known & protected by all Hollywood? I think healthy minded people steer clear of trouble, while others are willing to trade/barter.
@@Cynthia-nm6tgI've read that you can't get to any level of fame in Hollywood without that never happening to you and, although I cannot tell if this is true, we had the #me too movement that ousted Harvey and we're just beginning to cover the male side of it, with Kevin Spacey and what not. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it isn't true, just because he's reenacting it. People deal with trauma in different ways. I love Cheer, but she does have a tendency to judge others by how she would think/handle things, without accounting for any difference in culture, feelings, moment in life, etc. If that real stand up show that she found and watched was cathartic for him, it makes sense that he went back and perfected it. Perhaps it's his way of dealing with trauma. And who knows, perhaps it was Netflix's idea to sell it as 100% truth. Eventhough, I have to say that, what I saw advertised in my country was that it was "based on a true story". He said in an interview that he didn't know if she went to jail, so how could it be 100% factual? Plus, as HG Tudor said, we have to account for the fact that it's his side of the story only. So it's bound to be biased.
Thank you for this episode. I kept seeing this topic everywhere and had no idea what it was about. Now I know. However, not sure I want to delve any deeper.
I love your take on all things. I do believe Richard Gadd was telling the truth to the best of his recollection. Whether that's the right thing to do or not - who knows? But it's refreshing to see someone tell their story without painting themselves as a hero or victim.
I found the relationship Richard had with his parents very telling. He had no idea anything had happened to his father. It changed his view of life completely.
I think this is the most fair and honest review of both the series and the Piers interview. In the interview she seemed unhinged to most people. I think Gadd exaggerated the situation and Netflix failed to protect the woman. I’m just putting it down to just another lieflex from Netflix!
I thought it was compelling due to it not being a straight forward victim - which is usually the case in such dramas. He really unravels the complexity of emotions around abuse that happens through grooming. Richard Osmans podcast 'the rest is entertainment' discusses how alot of it was common knowledge to those on the commedy circuit.
I think you're 100% right & Baby Reindeer doesn't pass the smell test. Out-on-a-Limb Prediction: Fiona will sue for defamation & her lawsuit will be "settled" (with unusual rapidity) *before* the case goes to court. ( All prearranged, of course, before filming even began.) I also think your observation about the unverified producer is a really good catch. (Perhaps a real life producer ,willing to dirty his reputation , was beyond Baby Reindeer's production budget? Whereas "Marthas" willing to sell their reputations are cheaper ?) NB, I'm old enough to remember the original "Amityville Horror" which was sold as a true story, even though it was proven to be a fraud within a few years of the original book's publication (in a New York court case: Cromarty v Lutz). Unfortunately, millions of rational people still believe it was, or might have been, a true story..... Hollywood is the best liar on the planet. I think Baby Reindeer looks like another big lie, too.
Watch the podcast with a famous UK tv exec and presenter Richard Osman called 'the rest is entertainment'. The comedian only did one man show on the Edinburgh fringe and everyone in the business knew the exec is for years. Richard Osman breaks this all down. Giving an insiders interpretation of how things work in tv.
I’m just a third the way through this and I’m loving this new addition of you reviewing a Netflix series. I think you should add review of series and movies to your repertoire !! 👏
I've watched both the series and the Piers Morgan interview but was unsettled following both - but you've helped me get my head around it all with your unique analysis. Thank you @cheerdenise
With all the attention it has been getting, I decided to watch it. You’re right, it is so so dark. I watched the entire thing in one sitting. I was emotionally messed up the rest of the night.
See, I'm so cynical it wouldn't surprise me if the Piers Morgan interview was just a PR ploy to get more people to watch the show and create more "buzz."
Cheere, I watched the entire series when I first saw it on Netflix, because I couldn’t stop watching it. Like you, I was tempted to fast forward the really hard to watch graphic scenes because it was so dark. I’m not sure if it’s exactly true with the details, but I will say for me it’s hard to find a show that I enjoy lately because not many shows resonate. This show was uncomfortably honest, displaying how flawed and complex we are as humans. I like how even though Richard went through some awful trauma, he was able to alchemize his experiences through creativity, into entertainment that was unique because it was awkward and honest. When I watched it, I felt a certain way afterwards, and we’re still talking about it. To me that makes a great show.
Cheere, what a lovely surprise to see your new content coming up on my feed! . I love all your book reviews and enjoyed this just as much. Please keep it coming❤
Like you, I don’t watch a lot of television. My husband started watching the series, he told me it’s not my kind of thing😂. I’m going to trust his judgement.
Hi Cheere! I don't have Netflix, so I'm not watching this show. After listening to you. I'm getting: I don't need it. We have been desentisied by wholly exposing everything wrong, either by SM or MSM, that somehow they're being successfull at either making us believe everything or highly doubt everything. They're breaking us down in so many ways. Thanks!🎉❤
I really don't care whether Fiona is the Martha. Doesn't matter. If so, that actress NAILED it. And it doesn't matter to me if it is true. There are so many true elements and emotions.
Many victims say that it is cathartic to retell their story as it becomes less painful if they are able to use their experience to educate or inspire others. I know Alison Botha said that the more she told her story, the less her attack found its way into her nightmares. As for Fiona and Richard, I don't think either of them has a very tight grip on reality. Fiona has a history of being a bit crazy and Richard straight up admits that his head is a mess. It is doubtful that either of them is telling the truth, in a way that 'normal' people would understand truth to be. ... oh, and Pierce did another piece on it that I saw a bit earlier today and her lawyer was on the show.
I was looking for a comment that addressed how some abuse survivors find the retelling of their story somewhat healing or helping to accept or cope with what has happened. I know this isnt everyone's experience but it certainly was mine, i even wrote a biography containing it. This in itself had the biggest impact in allowing me to process and move past the events in my your that had effexted me until my mid 30s. Thank you for addressing this ❤❤
Kinda reminds me of the saga of JT Leroy, an elaborate literary hoax that would now also be called a ‘catfish’. The biggest red flag is that all his flaws and weaknesses seem to be backhanded compliments to him. I’m not sure what is going on here but this particular tale of woe doesn’t have the ring of truth. Admittedly, I haven’t seen the show or her interview. I am only going on this. But I’m glad you did this. I have been curious what everyone was on about. Thanks, Cheere!
I don't have Netflix, thank goodness. I did watch the Piers Morgan interview, though. I didn't draw any conclusions from it because I was so confused by it all.
One would really have to watch the series for the Piers Morgan interview to make any amount of sense. I watched it, and I was extremely disturbed by some scenes. There is a graphic SA scene, so please don’t watch if it would be too much to see. That being said, this woman acts about as looney as the character of Martha.
@PerpetuallyTori I was more confused about my own feelings for the women. I believed her, then I didn't, I liked her, then I didn't. I couldn't conclude if she needed help or she needed to litigate.
This was very fair & balanced, as always. I haven't seen the Netflix show, but have seen the interview with Piers & several behavior/body language analyses. Very well done, Cheere Denise.💞
I have only seen episode one and haven't watched any other content about it so my comment is from my personal perspective. As a survivor of child SA, there is a catharsis in telling the story again and again. I become the owner of my story and not just a victim. I'm 59 and I am still finding the courage to speak up. Netflix is too big to be so sloppy tho.
I’ve been up on Baby Reindeer from the very beginning. First off, everyone has their opinion, but I believe RGadd; I believe for sure there’s receipts to prove she was stalking and crossing lines. RGadd, does not paint himself well also. The relationship was toxic in every way- Both were in the wrong.
Glad you did this episode. I was tempted to watch this series but Netflix is the home of Cuties and Harry and Meghan lie fest. Netflix has not cut Harry and Meghan off. Follow your gut. Netflix cameras present at the Nigerian faux royal tour.
Oh! My goodness I was thinking the same thing. The fact that Netflix allowed the alleged fake texting btw PC to mm to be aired shows they’ve lowered the bar. Netflix doesn’t seem to verify their content creators.
I haven't watched Baby Reindeer and given so many commentators saying it's dark and disturbing, I think I'll skip it. I did however watch clips of the Piers Morgan interview with Fiona and I found her to be quite a troubled woman. As someone who was stalked in my past, I'm sorry to say that even if half the claims made about her in the show are true, I have zero sympathy for her. I was lucky my stalker was relatively benign and backed off when I got the police and courts involved, but so many others aren't so lucky. There is a saying...stalking is just murder in slow motion.
I have not watched Baby Reindeer and am pretty sure I will not. I like my TV time to go to the pretty rather than the gritty. I did watch Piers interview with Fiona and she came across as very confused. Would get upset over nothing and then realise the question was not an accusation. I really don't know how they outed her, a simple it's not me and not posting absolutely banana comments on Facebook would have been much better for her Mental Health. The UK provides free mental health care.
While I haven't seen or heard about this show, and believe me, I also know that each person handles traumatic situations differently, I CAN speak on being a victim of this kind of abuse. I won't go into details but I will say that I could NEVER, EVER 'relive' that experience by acting it out. Notice I said, could, not would, just thinking about having to reenact that whole horrible event makes my stomach hurt, my skin crawl and panic is beginning to set in. Each person is different of course, and while I would never say that this story is entirely made up, I will say that it would not shock me to find out he took a much less dramatic event and turned it into something much darker than it was in order to profit from that story.
Hi Cheere! I enjoyed listening to your thoughts regarding Fiona. The Deception Detective on CZcams does a professional evaluation of this woman as she answers Piers’ questions. It’s fascinating!
One theory I have (since it seems the series is not strictly replicating real events) is that Richard experimented with both drugs and sexuality willingly… but suffered a bit of an identity crisis from it. Maybe he feels the need to portray himself as a hapless victim now because he’s still unable to reconcile that aspect of himself with his self-perception? Sex under the influence of substances is too much of a grey area already because people are not in a frame of mind to make decisions, but sometimes they are acting on real desires they’re usually too inhibited to do normally. idk
Hi Cheere! I’m happy to see you. Not following your latest book but missing your presence. I hope you’ll do more talks about whatever you feel like! I will never watch Baby Raindeer but it is such a current phenomenon that I appreciate being made aware by you of what it is about. All the best to you! ❤
Baby Reindeer was an awesome series although episide 4 was particularly emotional! I can see how Gadd did expose his SA as a means of catharsis & to forewarn ithers od those who groom others foe SA.
Male abuse victims have a much harder time coming forward and being taken seriously when they do. I have seen it with my own eyes and unless an adult female witness (as opposed to a child) will speak up for them they are often ignored, mocked or made into the guilty party themselves. It is an important issue that needs wider discussion and awareness.
As a mental health professional who has also experienced stalking, I can attest to the complicated emotions. Trauma can lead to attempts to overcome the trauma that are re-traumatizing. A person may insert themselves into potentially dangerous situations in order to overcome and master a past trauma. Therapy is a safer place to work through trauma. I can understand that ‘Donny, as a very creative person and performer, might want to work through his trauma through writing and performing-and likely revising his story through his talented writing and performances.
Netflix said that Harry and Meghan was a real story and we all know that it had nothing to do with reality only a story told by 2 delusional and malicious people. I gave up Netflix after that, no regrets Your points are valid as usual
Such a great discussion Cheere! I always enjoy hearing your perspectives on the topics you discuss even when I don’t entirely agree. I haven’t watched beyond the first episode of the show, and really not even the entire episode, I need to be able to be more focused when I watch it. That being said though I have two competing thoughts on the subject. First being I don’t really trust NF to be accurate or unvarnished in their content. Second being I’ve known several people who’ve experienced extreme situations and some of their behaviors are very difficult to understand. Everyone reacts differently to such situations, and I don’t think it’s impossible that someone would want to continue to relive the trauma. Traumatized people can behave in self destructive ways and in a way the reliving of the trauma is a form of self destructive behavior.
Oh last comment! I watched a psychiatrist do a commentary while watching the show. Before the truth came out about the SA, the psychiatrist predicted that by Richards actions, he appeared to be a man that was SA in a way that immasculated him. He predicted everything saying his actions were tgat of someone SA happened to.
HG Tudor has done an outstanding job analyzing the Martha character on his channel in a series titled, Baby Reindeer. He's beginning another analysis on the Damien character. Well worth watching.
Netflix should have said the story was 'based' on true events. I feel that both sides of this story are mainly fiction. There are truths and lies from both of these disturbed characters. Who knows what to believe?
I think there could very well be embellishment for dramatic effect. But also, repetition compulsion can potentially happen where trauma is concerned - that means the victim repeats some aspects of the trauma (NOT with conscious motivation though) in an effort to process an aspect of the trauma. I think if you combine that repetition compulsion with his poor view of himself, non-existent self-esteem & self-endangering behaviours, with a substance use problems, you sit with a seriously unhealthy person. Who would indeed include this in their public story, because that would allow for more self-inflicted judgement if parts of his story is scrutinised. But i can also see how the whole thing, including all the characters, could be a brilliant series marketing campaign for Netflix. Either way, like you said, the writing is excellent.
Her words don't ring true. She is blatantly contadicting herself. Doesn't make her a,stalker but the things she does admit to are completely bizarre for someone who only met him 2 or 3 times.. or was it 5 or 6?. She can't seem to decide. Also She cannot remember her degree grade yet has a photographic memory.. even tho there is no such thing. That said, I find him creepy as hell as well. I also dont see how she can sue for 'martha' being her, when she also says that it isnt her?
I didn't see the show, but I saw parts of her interview. Richard saying he changed the original so much that she wouldn't recognize herself...please. I found myself feeling sorry/bad for Fiona. I thought it odd if she was so dangerous why put the story out there? Fiona strikes me as a bit special needs...I find her more interesting. I'd love to know the true story. Thanks CD for being a voice of reason
Amateur sleuths who hunted down “Martha” also feel they have found “Darien” and have named a famous director. Not only does this guy fit the age bracket and fame, but he also looks remarkably like him. However, they say it isn’t him and how on earth would they prove anything anyway. The point is though, if they have cast a female actress who is almost the image of Fiona Harvey, why not do the same for Darien?
I haven't watched the Richard Gadd series on Netflix but in response to your thoughts about his story's authenticity: The Australian comedian Hannah Gadsby rocketed to international stardom and acclaim in 2017 when she performed her show "Nanette" based on her difficult experiences and the abuse she suffered as a Lesbian. Prior to this she was a 4th rate comedian but Nanette won an Emmy Award, an AACTA Award, the GLAAD Media Award, and a Peabody Award. She followed this success with "Douglas" and "Something Special" all of which are on Netflix. Gadd's show came out 2 years after Nanette in 2019. I like Hannah's recent work but of her previous work, which you can find on CZcams, the only really funny stuff is her humorous "lectures" on art history called "Renaissance Woman". Was Gadd following Gadsby's lead by basing his comedy on trauma?
Victims of abuse regularly go back to the places that hurt them. I know from experience. It's to feel something because We are numb. We had to shut down to survive the abuse
I agree with everything you said. I turned the show off around the same time you did for the same reasons. I felt heavy and depressed. Very dark stuff and I’m no delicate wallflower. I’ve worked in emergency psychiatric services for years. I’ve worked in mental health for twenty years, mostly in emergency/crisis situations. For ten years, I worked at the best psychiatric hospital in the country on a crisis evaluation unit. I’ve worked on detox units and with homeless people in an outreach program. Something did not ring true about the abuse used for entertainment thing. My instincts were alerting me that something was off. Homeless people have told me detailed, convincing and wild stories on the streets. But I did some investigating. I found that some of their stories were pieces of other people’s lives/stories and some stories were complete confabulations. At times, doctors, nurses and social workers believed these intriguing stories and based discharge plans on a bunch of lies. I have seen it all. Lol 😂 You are a smart cookie! I wish someone like Pat Brown (a professional profiler) or Ken Mains would look into this too.
I am so happy that you have made your comment on that. In fact I would be curious to hear a lot more of your thoughts on many different subjects;). I really loved the show, but I watched as fiction and it didn’t really matter if it was a true story or a complete fiction. I was also disturbed that anyone would like to reenact their rape in such way. I know that even the actors who just act in the rape scenes find it difficult. Then I thought that perhaps it is his way of dealing with the trauma. I don’t know. After watching the interview with “Martha” I almost started thinking it this was a publicity stunt. 😂
In interviews Gad stated he did NOT have Martha sent to prison bc he knew she was mentally unstable. It felt as though he had asked for her sent to a mental instirution instead. So HOW could Nwtflix claim it was a true story instead of " BASED" on a teue story instead?
Haven't seen the show but have seen enough people talking about it to get the gist. Also saw the interview with Piers. Now, this woman has problems, this is very clear and I really hope she gets some help. Piers does have a point in subsequent interviews though and Netflix and Richard certainly didn't cover her identity enough, this is very damaging, she will have a point in them saying this is the truth. However, if it went to court, I think they would just savage her, she needs some help, maybe a lot of help, which makes me very sad for her.
I've not seen it. It seems harrowing, but I agree with your comment. Why would someone who had been victimised in such a horrific way want to relive the experience over and over again, make a show about it, and then talk about their victimisation on fluffy morning shows? Especially, when the two people involved are still alive and will be able to recognise themselves. Aren't you potentially inviting further stalking or law suits? I will say (as someone with a tiny bit of insight into film/tv production) the story, the subject matter, exploration of mental illness, trauma, abuse of power, stalking, issues of masculinity, LGBTQ and SA would have ticked A LOT of boxes for producers, agents and managers. Especially in the wake of Mikayla Cole's similarly critically acclaimed I Will Destroy You - which was also weighty, uncomfortable and difficult to watch. (And also claimed to be a 'true story')
Cheere, find the interview with Piers Morgan and Laura Wray who was also a victim of Fiona, and was stalked by her for over five years. This woman Fiona is one incredibly sick woman. Laura Wray came forward to Piers Morgan for an interview to expose that Fiona is the stalker. Shauna on her channel The Vintage Read gives an amazing rant on how Piers then gaslighted Laura in another interview. In that video Shana gives several examples of the abuse Fiona inflicted on Laura who is a lawyer. I truly believe that this Richard is telling the truth and was definitely stalked and victimized by this woman Fiona. Just like the series The Crown, Netflix obviously took it upon themselves to put their own spin on the Baby Reindeer story, but at the core is the truth. People wont come forward because they are afraid she will target them.
I certainly believed Laura Wray. She was logical, stated facts and brought the evidence of what Fiona had done to her. If anything positive could come from this it would be to lock up Fiona in a mental facility to get some much needed help!
Not watched it, but will now. Saw the Piers interview. It's a odd one, because the real Martha say's none of it happened to her, so then you can say it's not based on her, but then she also admits to thing. He didn't name her, but from her obvious tweets, she was outed, then came forward herself. This can all be cleared up, if there is a court case, all these facts, or not will be exposed. Depending on that, people can react. Should he expose his story, if true, to make money, who knows, if true, I guess it's his right. I don't understand it, but I haven't lived his life.
It’s interesting to hear your views on the show and Piers interview. I binge watched the whole series but my boyfriend couldn’t watch the whole thing. It was very disturbing and at one point I nearly gave up just like how you described but I wanted to know how it would end. I also watched piers interview but not his ones. I think she is definitely a smart but disturbed person and a liar who is not easily caught out. I agree with you how a victim of such terrible stocking would want to relive the whole thing and knowing this stalker will kick off as she seems to be quite narcissistic too. I cannot reconciled the behaviour of Gadd but Fiona behaved exactly as I suspected she would! It will be interesting to see what will unfold. 😊
I just started watching it, but I think she really did stalk him, but also he comes across as disturbed himself. Either way it's pretty interesting. Hard to watch at times.
The only way you can keep reacting the trauma is if you have disassociation around the memories. Having had an episode of disassociation in childhood I can retell events clearly and accurately without feeling any emotions at all and this often upset people as I grew up. It caused deep emotions in others that I couldnt feel myself. If you catch the show lying thats one thing but I DO believe he could easily play out true events over and over even if they devastating. Growing up I wanted to tell the story all the time. The need to retell and retell traumatic events (for me as a kid anyway) was a way to apologies in advance to people for the gaps in my ability to relate to them and a pleading for them to accept me despite my differentness as I found normal hard. Im sure the produces exaggerated stuff but well it is Holliwood
Me too!! Nobody would have been bummed about some artistic licensing, it’s just good to know what you’re investing your heart in. How bad do I need to feel about this 🤣
I haven't yet watched Baby Reindeer, because I have been hesitant to invest seven hours of viewing time to such a dark and depressing topic. I really love a good thriller and appreciate great acting, so I was nearly ready to start watching the series until I saw Piers Morgan's interview with Fiona Harvey. I agree with you, Cheere, that she did not appear very credible. At first, I thought, perhaps, she was understandably nervous. However, the more details she shared, i.e. six e-mail addresses and four cell phones, the more I began to doubt her story. I also wonder how Richard Gadd could summon the strength to relive such a personal trauma each night on stage and then again in this Netflix drama. I often hear actors, particularly method actors, comment on how a dark role can dangerously seep into their psyche and wreck havoc on their mental health. Ryan Gosling recently gave an interview in which he admitted that, now that he has a family with young children, he is more careful about the roles he chooses, because he does not want to bring any residual bad vibes home to his family. In contrast, Tobias Menzies played the most vile (and quite interesting) character, Black Jack Randall, on Outlander (Season 1-2). When asked in an interview whether the role had negatively affected him, I was surprised to hear him say that it had not. He actually enjoyed exploring the character's dark side and trying to understand what made him tick. I'm still a bit on the fence about watching Baby Reindeer, and I think I may wait to see if more news surfaces about Fiona Harvey, Richard Gadd and that mysterious producer that allegedly assaulted him. This was an interesting conversation, and I hope you will plan to do more in between your regular book reviews.
Great comment. I know we’re all different, but I’m more like you and Ryan-something so dark, do I need to add that to my life? Maybe it doesn’t affect others as much, but it is so good to be self aware and know what will affect you negatively.
I love that you are mixing things up. Please continue to talk about any subject that moves you.
In today’s “my truth” versus “the truth” I believe very little from the media & anything out of Hollywood. I also don’t believe too many people. I guess 68 years of life have given me some wisdom.
Great episode. Thanks for sharing your talents & thoughts.
I second this.
One of my current pet peeves is when somebody says my truth there is one truth and that is the truth. You may have a different viewpoint, but that is different than being the truth
Amen
Agreed. When people go by my truth and your truth . It inevitably looks nothing like the truth!
My feeling is that in recent years, through “entertainment”, we, the public, have been being groomed and desensitized. Aggressively. Groomed to lose our grip on right v. wrong. I haven’t watched the show in question, but I don’t even want to say the name of it.
You’re right about how we have been de-sensitized by the entertainment field. ♥️
It actually is an excellent miniseries and extremely well written and well acted
@@robincurle7574Some people find scenes about abuse and violation disturbing. I think it's worse for some that it's a man being abused. I think the series gives the main characters complexity.
Richard and Fiona are both crazier than a box of frogs.
Ha! I’ve never heard that expression, but I love it!
Hey Cheere. I love these off the cuff chats. It would be thrilled if you did more. You always bring a perspective that nobody else seems to see.
I agree with you and have a lot to think about.
Take care ❤
Will do!
Agreed! You are the perfect person to discuss this Netflix documentary! It's a scary and fascinating story. It's very depressing at first and they go to crazy town fairly quickly!! I haven't formed an opinion yet on what I believe is true so I am looking forward to discussing with you!
You are the best! Much Love💕💕💕
I think you have a point. In 1969, when I was 13 years old, I was violated at knifepoint by a horrifying stranger. Although it changed my life profoundly, I could not tell one single soul. Every waking hour I had flashbacks I could've set a clock to, every 15 minutes for decades. I wasn't able to finish school or much else. The first time Telling anyone was when "me too" happened. At that time I was quite shocked to find that other friends I had known many years had somewhat similar experiences, which I had never heard any of them speak of.
Far too many. Far too many secrets. Much love to you ❤
Yep.
So glad you warned me..I can't stand brutally, cruelty, the defenseless being harmed & dark stuff.
This review was wonderful.
I know I’ve commented already- but Fiona outed herself. She went public before the PMorgan interview and said awful things about the lady/actress that was playing her. She then said on PMorgan that she did that bc people had already found out it was her- either way; she made the first move publicly.
You raised some very valid points about the veracity of Richard's account. I watched the show a couple of weeks ago before Fiona Harvey surfaced. I was blown away by the show. I also saw the interview Piers Morgan had with Fiona Harvey, and found her to be a little out there. Richard has admitted that some of the show was dramatized (for example, Fiona never went to prison for stalking him). As always, I think the truth lies somewhere between Richard and Fiona's accounts. I DO think Netflix was wrong for proclaiming the show as a "true story," rather than stating it was BASED on a true story. The show was well-written and acted well enough to stand on its' own merits, without having to proclaim that everything was 100% "true."
They also let everyone assume the Crown series was a true story, rather than increasingly fictionalised.
My biggest takeaway from the Piers Morgan interview was that the actress nailed the character. The lady didn’t do herself any favours with that interview
Critical thinking skills. There's not a lot of that in today's world. Most people take things at face value. Tell a lie over and over until people begin to believe it. Thank you for bringing this skill and healthy debate back into our lives. This is what we use to learn in our colleges. Today... not so much.
Love it Cheere! Great surprise for Tuesday night!!
As a child/teen that was treated awful, I 100% believe RGadd was groomed. Re-enacting those scenes for Netflix was odd but I really believe him.
I think something terrible happened to him…but wanting to re-enact your own violent r*pe seems completely unhinged to me.
@@cheeredenise People cope with trauma in different ways. It takes a mountain of courage to confess you were a victim especially for a man. The amount of shame a victim feels believing they were weak, which caused their abuse, cannot be dismissed.
What Richard has done, by showing his raw-ness is help other victims, especially gay men, seek counselling for their past rapes.
Note: Writing "True Story" before a show is an accepted convention for dramas. Richard did not make a Documentary. Netflix is covered by their end disclaimer '...based on true story'.
Please see 1996 movie Fargo by the Coen brothers. In the 1st frames are text that says "This is a true story... "
The movie is not true! The Coen brothers have stated in interviews that it's not true, they wanted to set a specific tone - however there are some scenes with the wood chipper that actually true.
Cheere, I really hope you do continue making this kind of pop culture commentary videos!
I hope so too!
I too had a family member who asked me to watch it. I thought it was depressing, and the story could have been told in three episodes. The acting was amazing.
Agreed it went on for too long, probably a contractual thing with Netflix.
I watched it in its entirety and there are a few things I do agree with you on being sus: they absolutely did the bare minimum to protect the real Martha's identity compared to producer- whether the explanation to that is that Gadd lies about abuse or that the producer is intentionally hidden it comes off bad. It's opportunistic in the first case and really damaging in second because it underlines he's willing to sell, not his body, but his trauma this time for fame just as he was doing when he kept going there knowing what the producer does to him while he's out of it.
The woman who she originally stalked for five years who was her ex employer (lawyer’s office), has come forward to confirm Fiona was her stalker and was jailed for it. Richard Gadd in interviews said he had to change the story a bit in order to adapt it to television format but that these things did happen. He said he didn’t expect it to be a success at all and is very overwhelmed by it all. He says his parents haven’t seen the show and he still feels incredibly guilty about all the things he’s put them through. There was another British show also autobiographical and it was about being randomly drugged in a pub and then r@ped. It’s called I Will Destroy You and it was also great but Baby Reindeer is phenomenal.
The empathy/judgement the show inspires is interesting. I found it very moving
It’s apparently well known in the entertainment industry who the male abuser is, but no one wants to identify him. Whether social media sleuths have also identified him and also don’t what to name him I don’t know.
My main question about this whole programme is why is the stalking, by someone he admits to encouraging at times, the big story while the sexual abuse by someone in a position of power takes a back seat? Surely by any account the abuse he apparently suffered is 100 times worse that being bombarded with emails and such like. It doesn’t add up to me.
I haven’t watched anything on Netflix since that ridiculous H&M mockumentary but yeah, that definitely is confusing.
Exactly!
I've not watched it yet, but find it fascinating listening to people's opinions about it
There are people who can easily attach themselves to others if you show them the slightest bit of kindness. And in turn if you don’t return their misplaced affection and adoration they turn volatile.
The human brain is complicated with how to processes information. A gentle hi from someone could mean just a friendly greeting to one person, to another person it’s saying ‘that person is flirting with me!’.
I'm at the same place where you are, Cheere. From what I've heard, Fiona does have a history of harassing behavior. Piers mentioned her harassment of a woman she worked with for a brief time, and that checks out. The woman brought an injunction against Fiona. It's probably similar to a Cease & Desist Order here in the US. Also, before the Piers interview, she did an interview with a guy at the Daily Mail. He did a follow up article, and said she was now harassing him! Said she had inundated him with phone calls and emails. So I tend to believe Richard that she did actually send him a load of emails, letters, and made a lot of calls. But she has denied ever assaulting anyone, being put on trial, or doing any prison time. So far, there doesn't seem to be any record of those things. I've asked around online about the night she supposedly assaulted Richard's friend. Weren't there any witnesses? Has anyone said they were there that night? So far ...... nothing. Netflix has a real problem on their hands now, because they presented this as a true story, and therefore basically made some claims that they can't back up. I'm also bothered by some of the content creators here on YT, and their rush to pile on Fiona, encouraging a mob mentality, with torches and pitchforks at the ready. Even Richard admitted that he played a part in this by encouraging "Martha," and not going to the police about it soon enough. And there's something else here -- I'm noticing a kind of..... gleefulness.... about some of the posters who say, "See? Men get harassed too! Women do this stuff too!" As though this validates men in some way. It's almost like they WANT Fiona to be the monster she has been depicted to be. I think she's no doubt been guilty of some bad behavior -- but I'd like to find out the truth. Sorry I went on for so long, but this show has provoked some interesting discussion!! Thanks for doing this video, Cheere! 🙂❤️
She has denied sexually assaulting him by the canal. She always mentions the canal. Doesn't mean she didn't SA him somewhere else.
Like she denies sending 41,000 emails... she never says she didnt send emails, only that she didn't send 41,000. Very manipulative language.
I, too, felt disturbed after watching Baby Reindeer. Something inside me was unsettled.
Indigestion perhaps?
I appreciate your cynicism and your very fair assessment of the kinda glaring issues that seem potentially “off”- and not trying to invalidate anything I wasn’t there but specifically how it ultimately comes back on Netflix…I was glad Pierce brought her on for that captivating interview 😬 and he was probably some of the best and worst exposure for her.
As usual, you're spot on. This is bananas.
I disagree that it's odd... The need to go over and work out how to understand is not unusual. It helps. Nanette is a comedy special that also talks about hard things. When things have happened so much that you are used to them and especially when you are healing, it becomes something that is less triggering and / or something you can disconnect from. It rings so true for a lot of the twists of trauma that mostly it's hard to talk about because people don't get it or think it's too dark. There are some really good therapist reactions that go into this.
I viewed the Netflix series after seeing the Piers Morgan interview. I watched the series in one go, it was fascinating in a strangely disturbing way. My conclusion is that the real life 'Martha' is not completely innocent and is probably not a well individual. Mr. Gadd is also a complex and troubled man. Fact or fiction, the series is well acted and worth watching.
Definitely a compelling series!
Well it's coming out now that she did go to jail for it. Her nephew is releasing the info. He has a facebook page with family pictures info, everything. She changed her last name when she got out of jail. It was Fiona Muir Harvey. He said she lied about EVERYTHING in Piers interview which is true bc she kept changing her story and I caught that. I've watched it several times.
@@cheeredeniseP. S. I wrote the comment above before listening to your opinion. Your breakdown was very insightful and much appreciated. Actually, I think I'm going to have to re-watch the series! 😮
Cut Netflix out of my life due to wars, fires,floods,stabbing and other disturbing things going on…who needs this weird stuff
@@jameydupuy9280 sounds like a second video will be in order!!
I did finish the show and spoiler alert, he goes back to his abuser in the last episode, and they have a purely professional relationship and I should've put that in ". My take on the net why is that even though this abuser said that it would be a purely professional relationship this time, I don't believe it, and I'm wondering why this guy who wrote the show has to have fame so bad that he would go back to this very man, and act like he is happy about it? I thought that was really really strange anyway I'm glad you're commenting on the show!
Responding to your question: why this guy has to have fame so bad. I put that question/answer in the same ballpark with: Why did so many women put up with Harvey Weinstein abuse and apparently the secret was well known & protected by all Hollywood? I think healthy minded people steer clear of trouble, while others are willing to trade/barter.
@@Cynthia-nm6tgI've read that you can't get to any level of fame in Hollywood without that never happening to you and, although I cannot tell if this is true, we had the #me too movement that ousted Harvey and we're just beginning to cover the male side of it, with Kevin Spacey and what not.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it isn't true, just because he's reenacting it. People deal with trauma in different ways.
I love Cheer, but she does have a tendency to judge others by how she would think/handle things, without accounting for any difference in culture, feelings, moment in life, etc.
If that real stand up show that she found and watched was cathartic for him, it makes sense that he went back and perfected it. Perhaps it's his way of dealing with trauma.
And who knows, perhaps it was Netflix's idea to sell it as 100% truth. Eventhough, I have to say that, what I saw advertised in my country was that it was "based on a true story".
He said in an interview that he didn't know if she went to jail, so how could it be 100% factual?
Plus, as HG Tudor said, we have to account for the fact that it's his side of the story only. So it's bound to be biased.
Thank you for this episode. I kept seeing this topic everywhere and had no idea what it was about. Now I know. However, not sure I want to delve any deeper.
I love your take on all things. I do believe Richard Gadd was telling the truth to the best of his recollection. Whether that's the right thing to do or not - who knows? But it's refreshing to see someone tell their story without painting themselves as a hero or victim.
I found the relationship Richard had with his parents very telling. He had no idea anything had happened to his father. It changed his view of life completely.
That scene made me cry.
It’s common for people who are abused to repeat the because they are familiar circumstances. But who knows!
I think this is the most fair and honest review of both the series and the Piers interview. In the interview she seemed unhinged to most people. I think Gadd exaggerated the situation and Netflix failed to protect the woman. I’m just putting it down to just another lieflex from Netflix!
I thought it was compelling due to it not being a straight forward victim - which is usually the case in such dramas.
He really unravels the complexity of emotions around abuse that happens through grooming.
Richard Osmans podcast 'the rest is entertainment' discusses how alot of it was common knowledge to those on the commedy circuit.
I think you're 100% right & Baby Reindeer doesn't pass the smell test.
Out-on-a-Limb Prediction: Fiona will sue for defamation & her lawsuit will be "settled" (with unusual rapidity) *before* the case goes to court. ( All prearranged, of course, before filming even began.)
I also think your observation about the unverified producer is a really good catch. (Perhaps a real life producer ,willing to dirty his reputation , was beyond Baby Reindeer's production budget? Whereas "Marthas" willing to sell their reputations are cheaper ?)
NB, I'm old enough to remember the original "Amityville Horror" which was sold as a true story, even though it was proven to be a fraud within a few years of the original book's publication (in a New York court case: Cromarty v Lutz). Unfortunately, millions of rational people still believe it was, or might have been, a true story..... Hollywood is the best liar on the planet.
I think Baby Reindeer looks like another big lie, too.
Watch the podcast with a famous UK tv exec and presenter Richard Osman called 'the rest is entertainment'. The comedian only did one man show on the Edinburgh fringe and everyone in the business knew the exec is for years. Richard Osman breaks this all down. Giving an insiders interpretation of how things work in tv.
I’m just a third the way through this and I’m loving this new addition of you reviewing a Netflix series. I think you should add review of series and movies to your repertoire !! 👏
Maybe I should!!!!
@@cheeredeniseyou are amazing at this. I love your summaries and analysis of various topics.
I've watched both the series and the Piers Morgan interview but was unsettled following both - but you've helped me get my head around it all with your unique analysis. Thank you @cheerdenise
Great idea!
With all the attention it has been getting, I decided to watch it. You’re right, it is so so dark. I watched the entire thing in one sitting. I was emotionally messed up the rest of the night.
See, I'm so cynical it wouldn't surprise me if the Piers Morgan interview was just a PR ploy to get more people to watch the show and create more "buzz."
I mean, I think, each of his shows has at least a couple million views pretty quickly so I don’t think he needs to do that but who knows.
Cheere, I watched the entire series when I first saw it on Netflix, because I couldn’t stop watching it. Like you, I was tempted to fast forward the really hard to watch graphic scenes because it was so dark. I’m not sure if it’s exactly true with the details, but I will say for me it’s hard to find a show that I enjoy lately because not many shows resonate. This show was uncomfortably honest, displaying how flawed and complex we are as humans. I like how even though Richard went through some awful trauma, he was able to alchemize his experiences through creativity, into entertainment that was unique because it was awkward and honest. When I watched it, I felt a certain way afterwards, and we’re still talking about it. To me that makes a great show.
I'm with you 100% on this. Relieved to find someone voicing a lot of my own thoughts. Great stuff.
Oh thank you! I am halfway through watching the series, and am so conflicted. Your take on it is seriously helpful.
Cheere, what a lovely surprise to see your new content coming up on my feed! . I love all your book reviews and enjoyed this just as much. Please keep it coming❤
You nailed it!
Like you, I don’t watch a lot of television. My husband started watching the series, he told me it’s not my kind of thing😂. I’m going to trust his judgement.
Hi Cheere!
I don't have Netflix, so I'm not watching this show.
After listening to you. I'm getting: I don't need it.
We have been desentisied by wholly exposing everything wrong, either by SM or MSM, that somehow
they're being successfull at either making us believe everything or highly doubt everything. They're breaking us down in so many ways.
Thanks!🎉❤
Great discussion on this entire subjects, the Netflix series, and the main characters, the abused and the victims.
I really don't care whether Fiona is the Martha. Doesn't matter. If so, that actress NAILED it. And it doesn't matter to me if it is true. There are so many true elements and emotions.
Many victims say that it is cathartic to retell their story as it becomes less painful if they are able to use their experience to educate or inspire others. I know Alison Botha said that the more she told her story, the less her attack found its way into her nightmares.
As for Fiona and Richard, I don't think either of them has a very tight grip on reality. Fiona has a history of being a bit crazy and Richard straight up admits that his head is a mess. It is doubtful that either of them is telling the truth, in a way that 'normal' people would understand truth to be.
... oh, and Pierce did another piece on it that I saw a bit earlier today and her lawyer was on the show.
Oh, interesting that he had her lawyer on. Thank you, I'll check that out!
I was looking for a comment that addressed how some abuse survivors find the retelling of their story somewhat healing or helping to accept or cope with what has happened. I know this isnt everyone's experience but it certainly was mine, i even wrote a biography containing it. This in itself had the biggest impact in allowing me to process and move past the events in my your that had effexted me until my mid 30s. Thank you for addressing this ❤❤
@@helenlazenby9458 Hope your future holds only experiences, so joyful, that they make your past insignificant
Kinda reminds me of the saga of JT Leroy, an elaborate literary hoax that would now also be called a ‘catfish’. The biggest red flag is that all his flaws and weaknesses seem to be backhanded compliments to him. I’m not sure what is going on here but this particular tale of woe doesn’t have the ring of truth.
Admittedly, I haven’t seen the show or her interview. I am only going on this. But I’m glad you did this. I have been curious what everyone was on about. Thanks, Cheere!
I don't have Netflix, thank goodness. I did watch the Piers Morgan interview, though. I didn't draw any conclusions from it because I was so confused by it all.
One would really have to watch the series for the Piers Morgan interview to make any amount of sense. I watched it, and I was extremely disturbed by some scenes. There is a graphic SA scene, so please don’t watch if it would be too much to see. That being said, this woman acts about as looney as the character of Martha.
@PerpetuallyTori I was more confused about my own feelings for the women. I believed her, then I didn't, I liked her, then I didn't. I couldn't conclude if she needed help or she needed to litigate.
@@user-bm7en1lh8d She is very dangerous. She has been reviewed by psychiatrists or lie detectors as being most manipulative on many youtube vids.
This was very fair & balanced, as always. I haven't seen the Netflix show, but have seen the interview with Piers & several behavior/body language analyses. Very well done, Cheere Denise.💞
I have only seen episode one and haven't watched any other content about it so my comment is from my personal perspective. As a survivor of child SA, there is a catharsis in telling the story again and again. I become the owner of my story and not just a victim. I'm 59 and I am still finding the courage to speak up. Netflix is too big to be so sloppy tho.
I’ve been up on Baby Reindeer from the very beginning. First off, everyone has their opinion, but I believe RGadd; I believe for sure there’s receipts to prove she was stalking and crossing lines. RGadd, does not paint himself well also. The relationship was toxic in every way- Both were in the wrong.
Glad you did this episode. I was tempted to watch this series but Netflix is the home of Cuties and Harry and Meghan lie fest. Netflix has not cut Harry and Meghan off. Follow your gut. Netflix cameras present at the Nigerian faux royal tour.
I never watched H&M victim fest series or the re run of suits! Her voice and the site of her make me want to cringe!
Agree, especially on Pedophilic "Cuties." Disgusting.
Wow, YT deleted my comment. I agree with you, ESPECIALLY because of the p3doph!le "Cuties." We are being groomed and funnelled.
YT deleted my comment twice. I agree, especially because Netflix runs the Peeed0-friendly show "Cuties."
Oh! My goodness I was thinking the same thing. The fact that Netflix allowed the alleged fake texting btw PC to mm to be aired shows they’ve lowered the bar. Netflix doesn’t seem to verify their content creators.
I haven't watched Baby Reindeer and given so many commentators saying it's dark and disturbing, I think I'll skip it. I did however watch clips of the Piers Morgan interview with Fiona and I found her to be quite a troubled woman. As someone who was stalked in my past, I'm sorry to say that even if half the claims made about her in the show are true, I have zero sympathy for her. I was lucky my stalker was relatively benign and backed off when I got the police and courts involved, but so many others aren't so lucky. There is a saying...stalking is just murder in slow motion.
I have not watched Baby Reindeer and am pretty sure I will not. I like my TV time to go to the pretty rather than the gritty. I did watch Piers interview with Fiona and she came across as very confused. Would get upset over nothing and then realise the question was not an accusation. I really don't know how they outed her, a simple it's not me and not posting absolutely banana comments on Facebook would have been much better for her Mental Health. The UK provides free mental health care.
Just an addition, when is the Gadd interview? He needs to tell some truth, either, yes she is Martha or no she is not
Yes, it made me think of A Million Little Pieces and that whole situation too.
IMO the disclaimer should have been loosely based on the truth.
While I haven't seen or heard about this show, and believe me, I also know that each person handles traumatic situations differently, I CAN speak on being a victim of this kind of abuse. I won't go into details but I will say that I could NEVER, EVER 'relive' that experience by acting it out. Notice I said, could, not would, just thinking about having to reenact that whole horrible event makes my stomach hurt, my skin crawl and panic is beginning to set in. Each person is different of course, and while I would never say that this story is entirely made up, I will say that it would not shock me to find out he took a much less dramatic event and turned it into something much darker than it was in order to profit from that story.
Finally someone speaking sense about the situation! Great video!
Hi Cheere! I enjoyed listening to your thoughts regarding Fiona. The Deception Detective on CZcams does a professional evaluation of this woman as she answers Piers’ questions. It’s fascinating!
I just loved your analysis and conjectures about the whole thing!
Yes! You are born to do comment videos!! Your logical and objective but funny points of view are needed ❤
Thanks Cheere ❤I haven’t seen the Baby reindeer but my daughter has told me I need to watch it.x
One theory I have (since it seems the series is not strictly replicating real events) is that Richard experimented with both drugs and sexuality willingly… but suffered a bit of an identity crisis from it. Maybe he feels the need to portray himself as a hapless victim now because he’s still unable to reconcile that aspect of himself with his self-perception?
Sex under the influence of substances is too much of a grey area already because people are not in a frame of mind to make decisions, but sometimes they are acting on real desires they’re usually too inhibited to do normally. idk
Hi Cheere! I’m happy to see you. Not following your latest book but missing your presence. I hope you’ll do more talks about whatever you feel like! I will never watch Baby Raindeer but it is such a current phenomenon that I appreciate being made aware by you of what it is about. All the best to you! ❤
Interesting how you stated Netflix must have done their due diligence. Did they with the Harry and Meghan series ?
In regards to defamation-why would they want a law suit. They never billed Harry and Megan’s story as true. They were very careful not to.
@cheeredenise I see your point. They never did outright declare it as the truth.
Baby Reindeer was an awesome series although episide 4 was particularly emotional!
I can see how Gadd did expose his SA as a means of catharsis & to forewarn ithers od those who groom others foe SA.
Male abuse victims have a much harder time coming forward and being taken seriously when they do. I have seen it with my own eyes and unless an adult female witness (as opposed to a child) will speak up for them they are often ignored, mocked or made into the guilty party themselves. It is an important issue that needs wider discussion and awareness.
As a mental health professional who has also experienced stalking, I can attest to the complicated emotions. Trauma can lead to attempts to overcome the trauma that are re-traumatizing. A person may insert themselves into potentially dangerous situations in order to overcome and master a past trauma. Therapy is a safer place to work through trauma. I can understand that ‘Donny, as a very creative person and performer, might want to work through his trauma through writing and performing-and likely revising his story through his talented writing and performances.
Netflix said that Harry and Meghan was a real story and we all know that it had nothing to do with reality only a story told by 2 delusional and malicious people. I gave up Netflix after that, no regrets
Your points are valid as usual
Always love hearing your opinions on things! I haven’t seen the show yet but your take is very compelling.
Such a great discussion Cheere! I always enjoy hearing your perspectives on the topics you discuss even when I don’t entirely agree. I haven’t watched beyond the first episode of the show, and really not even the entire episode, I need to be able to be more focused when I watch it. That being said though I have two competing thoughts on the subject. First being I don’t really trust NF to be accurate or unvarnished in their content. Second being I’ve known several people who’ve experienced extreme situations and some of their behaviors are very difficult to understand. Everyone reacts differently to such situations, and I don’t think it’s impossible that someone would want to continue to relive the trauma. Traumatized people can behave in self destructive ways and in a way the reliving of the trauma is a form of self destructive behavior.
Oh last comment! I watched a psychiatrist do a commentary while watching the show. Before the truth came out about the SA, the psychiatrist predicted that by Richards actions, he appeared to be a man that was SA in a way that immasculated him. He predicted everything saying his actions were tgat of someone SA happened to.
Spot on
That wasn't Dr Honda from PSYCHOLOGY IN SEATTLE
@@fargotua13 what? I didn't say it was. Andy actually ended up interviewing the same guy I was talking about. 🤣
@@jameydupuy9280 Yeah, so who was it?
@@fargotua13 I never said I knew his name. I have no idea. YOU said it was NOT someone. I said I never said it was.
HG Tudor has done an outstanding job analyzing the Martha character on his channel in a series titled, Baby Reindeer. He's beginning another analysis on the Damien character. Well worth watching.
Looking at the plot in Wikipedia, I'd say they tried to cram as many social pathologies as they could into one show. You're right to be skeptical.
Netflix should have said the story was 'based' on true events. I feel that both sides of this story are mainly fiction. There are truths and lies from both of these disturbed characters. Who knows what to believe?
I think there could very well be embellishment for dramatic effect. But also, repetition compulsion can potentially happen where trauma is concerned - that means the victim repeats some aspects of the trauma (NOT with conscious motivation though) in an effort to process an aspect of the trauma. I think if you combine that repetition compulsion with his poor view of himself, non-existent self-esteem & self-endangering behaviours, with a substance use problems, you sit with a seriously unhealthy person. Who would indeed include this in their public story, because that would allow for more self-inflicted judgement if parts of his story is scrutinised. But i can also see how the whole thing, including all the characters, could be a brilliant series marketing campaign for Netflix. Either way, like you said, the writing is excellent.
Her words don't ring true. She is blatantly contadicting herself. Doesn't make her a,stalker but the things she does admit to are completely bizarre for someone who only met him 2 or 3 times.. or was it 5 or 6?. She can't seem to decide.
Also She cannot remember her degree grade yet has a photographic memory.. even tho there is no such thing.
That said, I find him creepy as hell as well.
I also dont see how she can sue for 'martha' being her, when she also says that it isnt her?
Yes. I had the same depressed day after episode 4 ..
That tells me ( and likely others) I don’t need to waste mental and emotional energy on this. Thank you. 🙏
@@alison5009 💖
I didn't see the show, but I saw parts of her interview. Richard saying he changed the original so much that she wouldn't recognize herself...please. I found myself feeling sorry/bad for Fiona. I thought it odd if she was so dangerous why put the story out there? Fiona strikes me as a bit special needs...I find her more interesting. I'd love to know the true story. Thanks CD for being a voice of reason
Amateur sleuths who hunted down “Martha” also feel they have found “Darien” and have named a famous director. Not only does this guy fit the age bracket and fame, but he also looks remarkably like him. However, they say it isn’t him and how on earth would they prove anything anyway. The point is though, if they have cast a female actress who is almost the image of Fiona Harvey, why not do the same for Darien?
I have avoided this topic. My radar has been set off. Not interested to find out.
I second that. People like this disgust me. I am not interested in the how's and why's of their problems.
I haven't watched the Richard Gadd series on Netflix but in response to your thoughts about his story's authenticity: The Australian comedian Hannah Gadsby rocketed to international stardom and acclaim in 2017 when she performed her show "Nanette" based on her difficult experiences and the abuse she suffered as a Lesbian. Prior to this she was a 4th rate comedian but Nanette won an Emmy Award, an AACTA Award, the GLAAD Media Award, and a Peabody Award. She followed this success with "Douglas" and "Something Special" all of which are on Netflix. Gadd's show came out 2 years after Nanette in 2019.
I like Hannah's recent work but of her previous work, which you can find on CZcams, the only really funny stuff is her humorous "lectures" on art history called "Renaissance Woman". Was Gadd following Gadsby's lead by basing his comedy on trauma?
I wondered the same thing! Saw Hannah do a great show last year when she came to Brighton. But I always found her very funny, even before Nanette.
Victims of abuse regularly go back to the places that hurt them. I know from experience.
It's to feel something because
We are numb. We had to shut down to survive the abuse
I think she has a nephew who has corroborated the story. If i had info, i wouldn't come out publicly for fear i would get stalked next!
That's already been proven to be a hoax, the man isn't her nephew, he said he lied
@@Obi-MomKenobi obi-mom, not a surprise. What a cluster------. Geesh!
I agree with everything you said. I turned the show off around the same time you did for the same reasons. I felt heavy and depressed. Very dark stuff and I’m no delicate wallflower. I’ve worked in emergency psychiatric services for years. I’ve worked in mental health for twenty years, mostly in emergency/crisis situations. For ten years, I worked at the best psychiatric hospital in the country on a crisis evaluation unit. I’ve worked on detox units and with homeless people in an outreach program. Something did not ring true about the abuse used for entertainment thing. My instincts were alerting me that something was off. Homeless people have told me detailed, convincing and wild stories on the streets. But I did some investigating. I found that some of their stories were pieces of other people’s lives/stories and some stories were complete confabulations. At times, doctors, nurses and social workers believed these intriguing stories and based discharge plans on a bunch of lies. I have seen it all. Lol 😂 You are a smart cookie! I wish someone like Pat Brown (a professional profiler) or Ken Mains would look into this too.
I appreciate your spoilers/cautions. I have watched up to the 4th installment. Thank you.
I am so happy that you have made your comment on that. In fact I would be curious to hear a lot more of your thoughts on many different subjects;). I really loved the show, but I watched as fiction and it didn’t really matter if it was a true story or a complete fiction. I was also disturbed that anyone would like to reenact their rape in such way. I know that even the actors who just act in the rape scenes find it difficult. Then I thought that perhaps it is his way of dealing with the trauma. I don’t know. After watching the interview with “Martha” I almost started thinking it this was a publicity stunt. 😂
In interviews Gad stated he did NOT have Martha sent to prison bc he knew she was mentally unstable.
It felt as though he had asked for her sent to a mental instirution instead. So HOW could Nwtflix claim it was a true story instead of " BASED" on a teue story instead?
R Gadd- up front while promoting the show- told everyone that he re-wrote the ending. He wrote it how he wished things had happened. Just saying.
Oh, interesting!
Haven't seen the show but have seen enough people talking about it to get the gist. Also saw the interview with Piers. Now, this woman has problems, this is very clear and I really hope she gets some help.
Piers does have a point in subsequent interviews though and Netflix and Richard certainly didn't cover her identity enough, this is very damaging, she will have a point in them saying this is the truth. However, if it went to court, I think they would just savage her, she needs some help, maybe a lot of help, which makes me very sad for her.
I've not seen it. It seems harrowing, but I agree with your comment. Why would someone who had been victimised in such a horrific way want to relive the experience over and over again, make a show about it, and then talk about their victimisation on fluffy morning shows?
Especially, when the two people involved are still alive and will be able to recognise themselves. Aren't you potentially inviting further stalking or law suits?
I will say (as someone with a tiny bit of insight into film/tv production) the story, the subject matter, exploration of mental illness, trauma, abuse of power, stalking, issues of masculinity, LGBTQ and SA would have ticked A LOT of boxes for producers, agents and managers. Especially in the wake of Mikayla Cole's similarly critically acclaimed I Will Destroy You - which was also weighty, uncomfortable and difficult to watch. (And also claimed to be a 'true story')
Cheere, find the interview with Piers Morgan and Laura Wray who was also a victim of Fiona, and was stalked by her for over five years. This woman Fiona is one incredibly sick woman. Laura Wray came forward to Piers Morgan for an interview to expose that Fiona is the stalker. Shauna on her channel The Vintage Read gives an amazing rant on how Piers then gaslighted Laura in another interview. In that video Shana gives several examples of the abuse Fiona inflicted on Laura who is a lawyer. I truly believe that this Richard is telling the truth and was definitely stalked and victimized by this woman Fiona. Just like the series The Crown, Netflix obviously took it upon themselves to put their own spin on the Baby Reindeer story, but at the core is the truth. People wont come forward because they are afraid she will target them.
I certainly believed Laura Wray. She was logical, stated facts and brought the evidence of what Fiona had done to her. If anything positive could come from this it would be to lock up Fiona in a mental facility to get some much needed help!
Not watched it, but will now. Saw the Piers interview. It's a odd one, because the real Martha say's none of it happened to her, so then you can say it's not based on her, but then she also admits to thing. He didn't name her, but from her obvious tweets, she was outed, then came forward herself. This can all be cleared up, if there is a court case, all these facts, or not will be exposed. Depending on that, people can react. Should he expose his story, if true, to make money, who knows, if true, I guess it's his right. I don't understand it, but I haven't lived his life.
It’s interesting to hear your views on the show and Piers interview. I binge watched the whole series but my boyfriend couldn’t watch the whole thing. It was very disturbing and at one point I nearly gave up just like how you described but I wanted to know how it would end. I also watched piers interview but not his ones. I think she is definitely a smart but disturbed person and a liar who is not easily caught out. I agree with you how a victim of such terrible stocking would want to relive the whole thing and knowing this stalker will kick off as she seems to be quite narcissistic too. I cannot reconciled the behaviour of Gadd but Fiona behaved exactly as I suspected she would! It will be interesting to see what will unfold. 😊
I just started watching it, but I think she really did stalk him, but also he comes across as disturbed himself. Either way it's pretty interesting. Hard to watch at times.
The only way you can keep reacting the trauma is if you have disassociation around the memories. Having had an episode of disassociation in childhood I can retell events clearly and accurately without feeling any emotions at all and this often upset people as I grew up. It caused deep emotions in others that I couldnt feel myself.
If you catch the show lying thats one thing but I DO believe he could easily play out true events over and over even if they devastating. Growing up I wanted to tell the story all the time.
The need to retell and retell traumatic events (for me as a kid anyway) was a way to apologies in advance to people for the gaps in my ability to relate to them and a pleading for them to accept me despite my differentness as I found normal hard. Im sure the produces exaggerated stuff but well it is Holliwood
I also felt he encouraged her, by stringing her along, with everything she was supposedly to have done, he continued to enable her behaviour.
Good point
They should have billed it as loosely based on a true story and I still think it would have been a massive hit ❤️🏴
Me too!! Nobody would have been bummed about some artistic licensing, it’s just good to know what you’re investing your heart in. How bad do I need to feel about this 🤣
I haven't yet watched Baby Reindeer, because I have been hesitant to invest seven hours of viewing time to such a dark and depressing topic. I really love a good thriller and appreciate great acting, so I was nearly ready to start watching the series until I saw Piers Morgan's interview with Fiona Harvey. I agree with you, Cheere, that she did not appear very credible. At first, I thought, perhaps, she was understandably nervous. However, the more details she shared, i.e. six e-mail addresses and four cell phones, the more I began to doubt her story. I also wonder how Richard Gadd could summon the strength to relive such a personal trauma each night on stage and then again in this Netflix drama. I often hear actors, particularly method actors, comment on how a dark role can dangerously seep into their psyche and wreck havoc on their mental health. Ryan Gosling recently gave an interview in which he admitted that, now that he has a family with young children, he is more careful about the roles he chooses, because he does not want to bring any residual bad vibes home to his family. In contrast, Tobias Menzies played the most vile (and quite interesting) character, Black Jack Randall, on Outlander (Season 1-2). When asked in an interview whether the role had negatively affected him, I was surprised to hear him say that it had not. He actually enjoyed exploring the character's dark side and trying to understand what made him tick. I'm still a bit on the fence about watching Baby Reindeer, and I think I may wait to see if more news surfaces about Fiona Harvey, Richard Gadd and that mysterious producer that allegedly assaulted him. This was an interesting conversation, and I hope you will plan to do more in between your regular book reviews.
Great comment. I know we’re all different, but I’m more like you and Ryan-something so dark, do I need to add that to my life? Maybe it doesn’t affect others as much, but it is so good to be self aware and know what will affect you negatively.
@@alison5009Thanks Alison! I feel like the longer I wait the more spoilers I risk hearing, but maybe that's not so bad - LOL!