Are the new ATEM SDI & ATEM SDI Extreme ISO switchers worth it?
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Blackmagic just announced a new lineup of ATEM Minis with SDI instead of HDMI! Find out how these new SDI switchers stack up against the original HDMI ATEM Minis and the new Constellation HDs!
LINKS
ATEM SDI Extreme ISO
geni.us/atem-sdi-extreme-iso
ATEM SDI Pro ISO
geni.us/atem-sdi-pro-iso
ATEM SDI
geni.us/atem-sdi
Preorder yours from DVEStore!
www.dvestore.com/blackmagic-d...
Lilliput A11 SDI Monitor
geni.us/VSGO
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
00:22 Overview of the new models
00:52 What is SDI for
01:39 Overview of the ATEM SDI models
02:54 Things I think they got wrong with the ATEM SDIs
05:56 A new multi SDI/HDMI converter?
06:35 No persistent media pool on the ATEM SDI
07:22 What I'm excited about
09:46 Outro
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e4df4702be0ee1177ebf - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I’ll be extra excited when they build a 4K ATEM mini extreme that has the ability to record all of the channels. ;)
I would have loved to see a mixture of HDMI and sdi!!
I was checking this channel every 3 hours to see if you had posted this video. Insightful and thorough as usual. Thanks, Aaron
If the Extreme model had been available last year then I'd have definitely bought it along with a few SDI/HDMI converters but I'm not about to change my entire workflow now. I had hoped there might be better audio support - (mini) xlr inputs and mix minus routing being top of my wish list.
Your video and comments are excellent. Why Blackmagic is not listing to your gold ideas? You are such an expert!
Great overview. You're right, a mix of HDMI and SDI would make sense, OR the multi converter.
A few months ago the extreme iso came up on special offer here at a price so good it made sense to have a second one (will have to check but guessing 500 below retail). Plan was to add 6 Sdi/HDMI converters, and 2 HDMI/Sdi outputs. Since then constellation me2 was launched and got one of those, new plan was to use the pass through on the converters to feed the me2 while recording the iso on the mini. Delighted now as this works out much more convenient and less costly, and when I don’t need to record multi tracks I have 2 separate rigs.
Excellent first look!
Grt video thx. Agree about the mix option. I would love a hybrid model with 2 or 4 SDI, and the rest HDMI, then SDI and HDMI out. This could be if really useful if one has both HDMI and SDI cameras. Cool idea about the converters, yes.
Great to see the extra outputs! Same physical size, but depth is larger if you include the SDI ports (they stick out, and HDMI ports don’t)
In terms of a 4 way convertor - the Decimator DMON-4S, although intended for a multiview monitor, can convert 4 x SDI into 4 x HDMI independently. We also use these for 1 x SDI into 2/3/4 x HDMI as there's a something of a lack of multi-HDMI distribution convertors from any manufacturer.
Just seems like a big spend to get four SDI's converted to HDMI. So many things that make me frustrated with the Extreme SDI model. I do love the idea of four ouputs. BUt thqanks for the lead on the convertor. I actualy saw it on sale around Christmas time or just after...
Sign me up for the parallel converter idea. A 4x4 switchable between SDI and HDMI is a killer idea. I'd buy a couple for my flight pack and more than a few for the studio.😁
Thanks Aaron for suggesting a multi converter - this is what i asked BMD for so long and many times. Don't understand why it's not still there - it would make so much sense in their product line.
Wow!!! I’m switching!! The SDI connections have sooo much better connections for running long cables!! Must have.
Blackmagic is clever, we got BiDir converters to use with the Mini Extreme, and now they'll be useful the other way around!
Having both options for SDI first or HDMI first workflow is very cool. The "older" HDMI Extreme is still very useful for simple setups with the Studio 4K Cameras : one cable for video and CCU, easy.
Once you get into longer cable length, then you get into more complex setups, and then you can chose to either invest in bidir converters or even change switcher entirely.
Great job!
I appreciate a lot the function of the 2 outputs, 1 for PGM, 1 for Multiview. I FULLY agree that 1 of the outputs should absolutely be HDMI !! (not SDI) and 1 or 2 inputs should be switchable between SDI OR HDMI. I am still waiting until this is available, before acquiring such a mixer.
Great work Aaron one day bmp will listen to you.
I agree with your comment about the need for a mixture of SDI and HDMI ports. Very strange that there are no HDMI ports, I would have thought most productions would have laptops locally connected for presentation slides, graphics, text overlays, etc.. I'm using the Television Studio HD, SDI inputs for cameras and HDMI inputs for local PCs, it would have been great to see that in the ATEM Mini form factor, with integrated encoder, multichannel recording, auto-scaling inputs, etc.
I just talked to Blackmagic about this the other day.
The rack-mounted converters would be nice, but if they just made the converters and micro converters so they could be mounted to the Universal Rack Shelf, that would be awesome. And then release an HDMI splitter in the same footprint as the converters. Like an HDMI version of the SDI Distribution product.
I’ve watched hours of videos and tNice tutorials one is the first that explains it in a way a complete beginner could understand! Great video
Is the EXTREME ISO of either sdi or hdmi still the only option for dual usb for recording seperate video files while streaming? Ugh... such a pain.
From what I’ve seen, I think it records all inputs plus PGM, so SSC could be recorded as well.
Other than that, you’re spot on!!
Yeah if the SuperSource is active on the program feed then it's recorded, but as soon as you switch away you won't have a copy of it. Kind of defeats the purpose of the ISO recording, especially since the SuperSource layout isn't recorded in the Resolve project either, so you'd have to reconstruct it manually from the actual ISO files.
@@aaronpk that’s correct!
I am very interested to know if the Studio Camera Converter for the 4K Studio camera will work with the SDI in/out on these. I want to use the ethernet run for sending and receiving video signals with the Extreme ISO. Doesn't currently work with the HDMI version and I really want my camera ops to have program return via ethernet.
In future I want upgrade from the AMP to Extreme ISO and will then go for the SDI model, also because I believe I will need less converters than when opting for the HDMI model. Still puzzled how to connect everything together. Two HDMI cameras goes to IN3 and IN4 (through converters) and Mac Mini goes to IN1 (because of DIR ?!) or should I connect it to the Hyperdeck plus instead? SDI OUT A and B goes to IN7 and IN8. then I’m planning on using two UltraStudio converters (REC and Monitor).
YES! A multi converter box for SDIHDMI!
You mentioned how Supersorce isn't brought over into the DaVinci file, What does this end up looking like if you use it during production and bring it over to DaVinci?
which audio set would you recommend for a live streaming talk show about 4 people with extreme Atem
My ATEM Production STUDIO 4K has SDI and HDMI mix. Do you think it would be possible to use mix Atem mini extreme to control those Sdi and Hdmi
Quite a comprehensive video. I didn't hear you speak on the USB port? Mind sharing if you have used it by directly plugging it into a laptop/desktop and using a software encoder like OBS?
There's no changes to the USB features on the SDI versions compared to the HDMI, so it works just fine into OBS and such. One thing to note though is that the color space is slightly different over USB and the picture ends up looking more contrasty compared to the HDMI/SDI picture. I personally don't really mind it but it bothers some people.
Q: How does the new SDI models do with camera-control for ursa, pocket ect. Have they done some magic again were you can do it one one SDI cable or du you need to use the outputs and only be able to control a few cameras?
That was a killer intro! Ha haaa!
Interesting!
Have you tried outputing a camera input to any of the multiple SDI outputs on the Constellation series? I'm trying to figure out how to get the audio of that camera to go to that output and not the main mix audio...because your idea of using it as the one of the Atem Mini ISO to be a large recorder would require that, right?
Unfortunately this is the big limit with the ATEMs, there is only one program audio mix. Most of the time I don't actually use the ISO audio from the different inputs anyway, so I don't mind running a few SDI outputs into a separate ATEM SDI to record ISO video feeds, knowing that I will only be recording a single audio mix. If ISO recordings of the audio is important to you, then you'll definitely want to stick with the ATEM Mini ISO series.
So if I'm hearing this right the ATEM SDI has 2 SDI outputs but lacks a multi view? Anyone have any suggestions on signal flow to get a multi view with that unit?
Just to confirm. Did you say that on the Pro ISO, there is the capability to configure one output for multi-view and the other for program?
yes!
Hello! You didn't mention about multiview? Does the Atem Mini SDI with 2 SDI Out, one then can be use as a multiview?
Yes I thought I mentioned it briefly, it's the same as the HDMI versions, the base model does not have multiview but the two ISO versions do.
@@aaronpk I don't understand this Blackmagic people. Why on earth do you add 1 USB output, 2 SDI Output and No SDI Multiview option.
Hey Aaron Parecki excellent video I was wonder if you can get multi view and a program out on the base atem sdi?
No, the base model doesn't have multiview
@@aaronpk thank you for the info.
Decimator makes a great multi input converter
Yeah but it's not exactly something you can fit neatly into a rack
I sure do wish that they had gone for mini XLR audio inputs on the extreme. Sigh.
QUESTION! Wt the SDI version, can I run a computer source into it? If I want to do graphics via propresenter?
You'll need an HDMI to SDI converter, but yes!
I just want a 2ME Switcher with iso recording (including making the da Vinci resolve file).
Q: does it have "Alpha Channel" suport so you can sent a stream with "transparent background" to it and you can place that above another input.
There is no alpha channel in the video, but you can overlay video with transparency by using two SDI inputs, known as "key/fill". One input has the video and the other has the alpha channel, and you can use the upstream or downstream key to overlay this onto your main video.
Can it control the BMPCC4k?
Hello
Blackmagic removed ISO models in Hdmi?
ATEM SDI PRO ISO and ATEM Extrem Iso can no longer act as a webcam?
the manual says only the SDI mini?
can you confirm that one of the USBs can broadcast in Zoom?
Thanks
I'm not sure what you mean, the USB output of all the ATEM Minis works the same and hasn't changed
@@aaronpk I wanted to be sure. Because a French retailer tells me that with the SDI PRO and EXTREME models it is impossible to use them as a webcam.
I have no idea why they'd say that, it says it right on the website! www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/atemsdi
@@aaronpk he made a reading error. the manual implies that the SDI pro and extreme only have the ethernet option to broadcast. ;)
thank you for your time and tutorial
i wait ultimate12 ;)
hi Aaron did BM ever update the media pool issue in the extreme. does it save now or goes away after shut down thanks
The Extreme does save the media on power cycles. I'm pretty sure it always has. The Mini got that feature in an update a couple years ago
@@aaronpk the SDI Iso 8 model im speaking of thanks n advance
I don't have that particular model but I'm 99% sure it should store the media pool when it's powered down. I know the HDMI 8-input version does.
Can those two outputs be used for key and fill with hyperdeck for animated overlays?
Not sure what you mean, if you want key/fill graphics from a Hyperdeck you'd use two of the inputs for it
@@aaronpk yeah! My bad! I meant inputs.
Can the two outputs be configured to be: the multiviewer on one, and the program output on the second one?
Yep definitely!
@@aaronpk awesome. I’m buying one for a small church install.
6:31 Decimator Design makes converters with a bunch of I/O. They are more common when you get up in the high-end broadcasts. Not as sexy looking as the Blackmagic but much more durable, flexible, and last waaaaay longer.
They're still a super awkward form factor. Seems like someone should make one that can be rack mounted nicely!
@@aaronpk Oh definitely, I would buy a rack mounted one in a heart beat! There’s only multi view rack mounts from what I can find.
Still no 4k iso record? ):
Black magic are well known to cripple hammer their own products to make their other product relevant like converters etc. i would love to have one like your wish lists it would be perfect.
Yeah, I think they missed the mark with these for the reasons you gave about the mix of input types. And why not also revamp the original HDMI versions to have dual HDMI out at the same time (for multiview and programme)? Daft.
Q: what is the latency?
Source > SDI input > SDI output > Monitor
It should be basically nothing, maybe a frame. I will try to measure it though.
@@aaronpk that would be great. I do livestreaming and the latency is important, like every frame counts.
The video signal will pass the switcher and introduces delays. But I didn't find any info in the spec regarding the delay.
What is the best solution doing livestreaming source 260Hz > switcher in > switcher out > Monitor 260Hz. That refresh rate should be still available after mirror / switch device.
Do you have any advice how to achieve this setup?
Is there a pass-through mode?
The ATEM SDI Extreme ISO is low key the solution for about 80-90% hotel ballroom show setups. Just add a decimator MD-HX or Blackmagic Mini Converter SDI to split a program out to several screens (two mains, a DSM and the TD's monitor) and use the other outputs for a record, a multiview and DSM notes and its a done deal. If it had real audio outs, it would be a a market killer!
Still, I'm sold. Release date?
Q:
I need to buy ATEM EXTREME as we have more than 4 input. All of our cameras are HDMI & monitors are HDMI.
Do you recommend that I get the EXTREME HDMI model for our use, or we are better off getting the EXTREME SDI model ( I will need to buy at least 9 SDI-to -HDMI converters, for all cameras and monitors) for any benefits of the SDI model.
Rarely we get into the situation where we need long HDMI cable.
Appreciate your advice
Thanks
If you don't have a multi-room setup, there is not really a benefit using SDI. More detailed description in my comment below.
That is a good advice, thanks
My strongest argument going with HDMI is the automatic video up- and downscaling of the HDMI switcher inputs. The switcher converts all input signals to the program output video signal format.
Update: the SDI switcher also converts formats and framerates.
Audio Encoding/Decoding:
The switcher with SDI input, forces you to input always the same video format e.g. 1080p@30fps. It can be tricky force all sources output that format. Sometimes you need a cross converter.
SDI converter
This setup adds one more converter to the workflow: source > hdmi > SDI > SDI format converter > video switcher.
With the SDI converter scenario, you introduce converters. Every device introduces a point of failure. The possible error in event of device fail, is higher.
Regarding Audio:
There is SDI Analog and SDI digital. Digital can carry up to 12 cannels of audio at the same time with the Video. Converter can be used to embedded and de-embedded the audio signal.
SDI as control signal:
SDI digital is great if your camera support that signal. It can steer cameras from remote through the SDI output on the video switcher. In environments which have a video control room with the hardware, and the scene in a different room. The camera can be controlled in the live scene room through ethernet, ipad and an app.
My conclusion is, use SDI if you need long distances >30m or need to connect campus buildings with fibre optics.
I would say in room size setups, HDMI is a better choice - more flexible reg. video encoding, takes less space (nr. of converter, amount of cable, has smaller error rate and less devices).
I wish you a great day. I hope this information will help you making a decision.
Minor correction: the ATEM SDI does also have a frame rate converter on the inputs! So you don't need to match all the sources like the older ATEM switchers. This is also true with the Constellation HD models now too!
@@aaronpk ok thank you for clarification 👍
Is the video format conversion also included?
A damn shame that XLRs (even mini XLRs) were not incorporated into the new Atems as opposed to continuing with the dreadful mini jacks. Missed opportunity.
For live events for an LED video wall rental company - Sdi Extreme or Constellation 2 M/E? 😂
The big benefit of the Constellation is the 12 aux outputs!
Still no 4k?
Still no balanced audio :(
Finally
You can easily get 150 feet and more with HDMI today with fiber optics.
one HDMI in and one HDMI input would have been great
2 of each on the extreme
I won't spend the money for the iso. Not a feature I will ever use. If I am recording it is at 6k not 1080p. So I would probably just buy a studio atem. I don't like paying for pointless features I won't use.
soon they will release ATEM SDI HDMI model with 4 SDI and HDMI lol
All models need to have two USB ports
Two USB ports are very useful!
Who invented hdmi introduced world of issues expense and problems into the whole video worlds .
All electronics should have forever remained only with sdi consumer and pro
No talkback?