Why didn't Sauron guard Mount Doom?
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- In this video, we explore the reasons why Sauron seemingly ignored the obvious, and chose not to guard Mount Doom.
And as a bonus, we explore some of the things I hate.
Patreon - / darthgandalf - Zábava
When an orc said "looks like meat is back on the menu", this implies that orcs have restaurants in Mordor. This implies you have to make reservations, because you don't just walk in in Mordor.
You really thought this through, I commend you.
Sauron’s not going anywhere unless he has a reservation.
Top tier comment
You won the internet
“Hey Frodo! Try Getting A Reservation At Mordor Now!" - Sauron Bateman
This is especially true considering Isildur had literally the best opportunity to destroy the ring after Sauran's defeat. Sauron prolly figured, "k, even my greatest enemies at the height of victory can't bring themselves to destroy the ring, so I don't need to worry about that."
Elrond had the second best. Could have just kicked Isildur into the lava. haha
@@jaykwonzzz 1st, Elrond is a noble Elf, Isildur hasn't done anything evil so it would have been immoral for someone like Elrond to kill Isildur just because the ring was a threat to them. Second, killing your allied King would probably have resulted in an all out war of human vs elves, what's the point of defeating Sauron just for you and your closest ally kill each other. Third, even if Elrond wanted to, Isildur is no push over. It was simply unwise for Elrond to do such a thing
@@haroldcruz8550 To expand on this a bit, there is also no reason to believe that Elrond himself wouldn't have been corrupted.
@@haroldcruz8550 I think he was joking
@@haroldcruz8550 First, it was a joke; second, it was a joke; third, it was a joke. It was simply unwise for you to respond in such a way.
He did technically guard Mount Doom as a site within Mordor. But the guard was dropped when he emptied mordor to confront his enemies at the black gate. From his perspective, the only way Gondor could have won and the Witch-King been killed was for someone to not only have the ring, but to have mastered its use.
Makes sense. In the end, Sauron's trust in the ability of the ring to corrupt was well founded. It did take Frodo in the end.
It makes sense because otherwise we would have a great climactic moment. Just a couple of injured orcs guarding the door killing Frodo is pretty anticlimactic
The bad karma of the ring twisted poor Smeagol. So it's fitting that the bad karma of Gollum got the better of the ring in the end.
@@shocknwave6779 really good comment
It's almost like Tolkien understood his own world-building and was a genius. :)
You’re delusional
Of course he understood. He created a literal world, lore, ethnicities, stories, languages etc. He was a genius.
@@kanegarvey848 agree. Everyone from George Lucas to Stan Lee must at least to some extent have been inspired by Tolkien. He is the father of the concept of 'shared universes' in popular culture, hence why his will always remain my favourite.
@@joebrat6809 not only that but Tolkien was such a wholesome guy to boot. Didn't do anything for the money it was just a world he created that he treasured.
@@kanegarvey848 yeah exactly, his attention to fine detail is even today unmatched. If you look at many of the cinematic universes today, they are full of plot holes and inconsistencies.
I apologise if I insulted your hobby in this video. If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone because we all have terrible hobbies - mine is making poor quality Lord of the Rings videos.
I find that inaccurate. Your hobby is clearly making high quality Lord of the RIngs videos. They have an easily understood voice actor and precise and clearly spelt out information that is both entertaining and informative. Everything an information video really needs.
I disagree, your videos are clearly made with Faramir of Gondor levels of quality
I agree with you 100 percent about fishing.
Somewhere there's a fishing, tennis-playing good ole boy that digs manga and watches speculative lotr videos, right now watering his whiskey with tears of joy that finally, someone gets him.
@@DavidOfWhitehills Must be a _Slow Loop_ reader then.
I've always wondered what went through Saurons head when Frodo put the ring on in Mount Doom, if there was confusion and fear, a sudden realisation of what his enemies meant to do and the terror that awoke in him, would have been great to be a fly on the wall in that moment
I doubt he felt fear about it being destroyed. It had been a fairly proven concept that no one could willingly destroy it once they bore it and it had touched them with its influence. He may have felt fear about them altering the ring and using it to enslave him like he had used the 9 rings to enslave the naz'gul.
@@Rembanspellsong There's no need to doubt or wonder. Tolkien describes it in the book.
"And far away, as Frodo put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-dûr was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him. For he knew his deadly peril and the thread upon which his doom now hung.
From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, waved and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom."
@@thenecrosanct4906 damn such a feeling
I’d be freaking out in anger and fear too knowing at any moment I could die because I was a fool and didn’t guard my heart incase of a strike
I thought the "expression" in the Eye in the Peter Jackson films did a pretty good job showing that moment.
Sauron: Haha, that stupid hobbit finally "claimed" the ring.
Sauron: Wow, he's pretty close. Is that idiot at the Morannon? No, it's in the other direction.... at.... Mount Doom!??
Sauron: Fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-
Maybe not fear but definitely a little bit of panic. Arter all, Sauron was convinced that Aragorn had the One Ring. And then the Ring is revealed to be not in the hands of Aragorn but in the hands of a hobbit who has sneaked past all the Mordor's defenses and revealed himself at Mount Doom - something Sauron completely didn't foresee.
In short, it's pretty much 100 percent impossible to toss the ring at that point. Unless, say two hobbits who have both been corrupted by the ring, fight over it, resulting in accidently getting tossed in the lava.
there are a few beings in middle earth that it would not work on, for example Tom Bombadil who was able to control the ring when Frodo and company met him in the old wood. Tom even said he could wear it and it wouldn't do anything for him if I remember correctly. But those beings are few and far between, plus most have no interest in interfering with the state of Middle Earth.
@@Rembanspellsong
Oh shit you're right!! Tom does wear the ring. It's crazy how much more detail the book has.
@@Rembanspellsong Tom bombadil doesnt mean anything though its canonically nonsense and Tolkiens dumbest piece of writing hes ever done.
Tom bomb is a lynchpin in any single problem The rings universe could ever have it doesnt abide by any laws of physics or magic.
Its the lovecraftian azathoth of this Rings universe, which means it doesnt matter.
@@SH19922x Bombadil isn't meant to be a large part of the plot, he is there to show that Sauron isn't the only power out there and isn't the greatest of them either. Yes, it is a minor part of the overall story but still part of world building.
@@Rembanspellsong Yeah doesn't Gandalf say at the end of Return of the king that he will go and speak with Bombadil for a time. That he now feels he has achieved and witnessed enough as to be able to have a meaningful conversation with such a creature as Bombadil? Something like that anyway
I loved this video, you explained it perfectly. I always remember two things from the books that always made me think Mordor was 'impossoble' to enter. When the Nazgul's winged beast is shot down, Gandalf says it will soon have a new mount. That always made me think the skies of Mordor had multiple winged beasts patrolling the skies.
The other was when Denethor says the army attacking Minas Tirith is but a finger of Saurons forces. Meaning Mordor could easily be filled with 5 times the numbers of the Force he sent against Gondor.
Like who is going to even attempt that? There's no hope... only a fools hope.
It was guarded, and very thoroughly. It's called a perimeter guard, and is how militaries have guarded things since forever. That's why there was a gate, and a guard tower at the pass.
A personal theory of mine regarding Sauron and the ring: The ring and sauron are one and the same, Sauron created the ring from his own power but in doing so put into it some of himself. While the Ring and Sauron were together, there was no change to Sauron and hence he could manipulate and tempt the men and elves. However when separated the Ring retained the ability to temp others, and in fact this is its most dominant trait. Sauron on the other hand became more blunt, relying on armies, diseases and minions over his own diminished personal power.
Sauron was right. When you get down to the last minute... the last second, no one who was in possession of the ring wanted to destroy it.
Frodo was going to keep it.
Golem certainly was.
It was only happenstance that brought on the ring's demise.
Fate, not happenstance.
the comment from Gandalf comes to mind when he mentioned in Fellowship of the Ring that there is a reason Bilbo left Gollum alive and thus he would still have a part to play in deciding the fate of the ring. It was fate.
I will argue that only one person there wanted to destroy it but was not in a position to do anything about it. Sam still wanted it thrown in the fire. Mister Frodo meant more to him then the ring. And the ring had its hooks in him from when he had to bear it from Shelobs lair.
I've always felt that in that moment, it was the will of Eru that ensured what needed to happen did happen.
@@jopabr24 well, in the Silmarillion when Morgoth first rebels and tries to sing a song counter to the song of creation Eru was singing, Eru simply incorporated it and created a more diverse melody. It would not be too far of a stretch to think he did something similar and had 'random chance' intervene and have Gollum fall into the lava with the ring.
9:29 "This is because he no longer had the ability to understand creatures he deemed lesser than himself." This characteristic is explicitly shared with Voldemort in the HP series, as is the "always on the lookout for a potential new rival to challenge him."
Same goes with the ultra rich and certain CEOs of this world. Funny the implications.
That is usually the fall of any big villain in real life, from drug dealers to evil dictators. They lose their ability to 'understand those they deem lesser than themselves', thus becoming arrogant and can't see anyone much lower than them challenging them.
they even both made horcruxes lol
@@sunnyhan824 It's almost like Tolkien has been copied by many many others
Oh stop, oh my fucking GOD, stop. Puke. Cringe.
Not EVERY fucking comment on EVERY fucking youtube video has to be some edgelord trash about "the rich."
God damnit you people are so sad@@tytoalba6573
To put it simply. Sauron could neither comprehend anyone wanting to destroy the Ring or reach Mount Doom.
In his eyes they have a way better chance to defeat him wielding it.
In his eyes none would even want to approach the volcano. Who the hell would want to go there, its a volcano.
Besides, Mordor was nigh impenetrable and even should you enter it is inhospitable and full of his legions.
Responding to your last statement, that is also why the last stand in front of the Black Gate was necessary. Sauron directed all his legions to Morannon, emptying Mordor of all Orcs, which he did because he was convinced that the One Ring was in Aragorn's hands. So from his point of view there was no reason to leave any garrison behind
And yet a random hobbit and his dumbass servant were able to get to Mount Doom cause plot convenience.
And also the “wise” wizard Gandalf sent two fucking hobbits who have absolutely no idea what they’re doing to save the world. And the only reason that dumbass servant was even there is because Gandalf can’t fucking keep a secret to save his life!
Aragorn said it best “fuck that twat Gandalf.”
Absolutely! Also just to add the cherry on the cake. Sauron also believes/knows that nobody can destroy the ring willingly. Just as Idildur (a great man and his biggest enemy) couldn't do it before.
The only issue I find is that rather than guarding Mt doom, they probably could've sealed up the entrance just in case 😂
This was a really excellent video. It not only demonstrated your keen knowledge of Middle Earth but a strong insight into Sauron’s motivations.
Thanks for the education and I look forward to more videos!
Have you thought about doing an "Forgotten Heros" serise? Going over some of the heros and villians in Tolkins works that are often over looked or forgotten either in universe or out of universe. I think their are some great stories you could tell.
I thought it was guarded. By a mountain of orcs in the way, for miles and miles, as well as a burning eye that can blink around and see everything in Mordor. It's clear in the story Sauron and his forces did not expect ANYONE to be able to sneak in and do this thing. They would be seen, intercepted, and caught. Even making it INSIDE of Morder was considered almost impossible by the Fellowship and likely as much by Sauron. It's incredibly unlikely anyone could enter, if they do it's impossible anyone could sneak further than a mile without being seen, intercepted, killed. Nobody is thinking about the mountain. The mountain has an army in front of it. Nobody is getting INTO Mordor much less THROUGH IT. Except two tiny, very ingenious, very stubborn little hobbits that NOBODY thought would ever do anything like that.
This was actually very deep and interesting topic 🤔 And you opened and explained it straight and solid😗 I was like 'that's it - I never even thought about it, but that's it!' Very good video. Thank you 🇫🇮💜
Also the rings will is even stronger at mount doom. That's why even frodo was manipulated by it's power towards the end. Sauron knew, or thought even if someone got it into mount doom they would not have the will to toss the ring in.
For him to have that thought or knowledge, he would have to consider that someone would be willing to come to Mount Doom to destroy it. The whole video explains he didn't even consider that.
sure, but ffs at least he could have build some fence around the edge like a normal person.... That cliff isn't exactly safe....
@@sorrycashonly5651 Mordor's health and safety measures were embarrassingly abysmal.
@@sorrycashonly5651 Why would he do that, it would be impossible for 99% of people to get even near Mount Doom in the first place without dying or being captured.
And the remaining 1% that would get near Mount Doom would not have the will to let the ring go, Sauron as a master at manipulating and corrupting minds trusted in the power of the one ring.
So why would he even attempt to guard mount doom? That would be like trying to guard a safe hidden inside a building inside a giant military base filled with thousands of soldiers and weapons of mass destruction 24/7.
@@joaquincasascortes624 it was half a joke
A very good video. Your thoughts are spot on. Thanks for your efforts! Best wishes in 2022!
Well done! It's easy from the standpoint of the more knowledgeable reader to wonder about these things but you really have to put yourself into the fictional universe and try to realize how its inhabitants thought, particularly when many of them, like Sauron, aren't human and shouldn't be expected to think like humans. Tolkien's Legendarium requires the reader to really think things through to figure out the answers to questions like these. And, as you point out, even though it was not done with the intention of guarding Mount Doom, it was exceptionally well defended anyway.
This is the most precise analysis of Sauron's personality I've ever heard. Thumbs up.
Great video!
Interesting that the converse of a being so evil that they cannot understand good is also true, which is why Manwë sits around Taniquetil twiddling his thumbs while his brother is slaughtering elves and corrupting men.
That anyone would want to _destroy_ the Ring was a thought that never occurred to Sauron.
Imagine if Sam and Frodo got to Mt. Doom and there was just a big iron gate in the way. They would have come all that way to be stopped by a metal door!
I’m wondering if Sauron even knew it was possible to destroy the Ring in Mt. Doom. Elrond and Gandalf certainly did, but perhaps Sauron was so over confident in his own abilities that he didn’t even stop to think about ways to destroy his Ring.
That iron gate would not have lasted long, due to constant earth quakes, lava flows, etc.
@@tominiowa2513 If the Cracks of Doom stays open, then so can a gate. Also he could just put a big rock there that takes a a dozen of orcs to move or two. Even disregarding the ring, it was a place of power. If he needed the cracks (or might have needed in the future), he should have guarded them to protect them from sabotage. If he didn't need that place, he could have just sealed it.
@@mohammaddelkhah That's like putting a simple lock on something inside of a maximum security prison, why would anyone bother? No person would think it wasn't safe enough
@@gothicfan52 Well, if you think maximum security prisons don't have many locks inside them, then you don't know how prisons work.
There, EVERYTHING has locks, even cupboards or janitorial closets.
So basically if Golum wasn't there at the end, it would've been GGs for middle earth.
But I have questions here, What would've Valar done if Sauron actually won? Would they have left it for Sauron to dictate?
I think he or other youtuber explained that. Tolkien stories are always glimpse of hope. If not in the present time, at the future. If the Istari initiative had failed, they would try other things. Things would be dark for a long time, no doubt, but at the end middle earth would get rid of the taint of Sauron. Only but with more scars.
Simple because is the will and plan of Eru. The imperashible flame in each of human, elf, dwarf and good beings in Middle earth would always have hope and fight the evil. Maybe the East would rise against his master, or the Valar intervein in some other manner. Who knows, but Sauron would be defeated and Middle Earth would not be left by it's own.
@@samwrai the East rising theory sounds so dope man, thanks for the info.
It might end up with a Numenor situation again - Eru intervening and casting the offending nations into the sea, or destroying them in some other earth-shattering manner. Or the Valar would intervene in person, with similar destructive consequences, as seen at the end of the First Age. Sending the Istari to oppose Sauron may have been the Valar's attempt to solve the situation with limited collateral damage.
_”What would've Valar done if Sauron actually won?”_
There was never any chance of evil winning. Evil was doomed to failure before it even existed.
Eventually the Valar would have stepped in.They chose not to step in because it wasn't nessecery they knew the denizens of middle earth still retained the power needed to defeat Sauron.
I'm glad to see you pointed out every argument I made before starting the video.
I love the idea that sauron literally can’t even comprehend that someone would want to destroy the ring rather then use it against him.
So, is it possible that Sauron's inability to assume a pleasing form after his defeat at the hands of Elendil and Gil-Galad was only one consequence of that defeat? Maybe he couldn't assume a fair form because he suffered some kind of metaphysical damage that diminished his ability to understand good? He could not appear in a beautiful form because he had lost the ability to understand good overall?
That’s not why he can’t assume a beautiful form, he lost that power escaping from Numenor’s destruction, which all things considered was a really serious blow to his capabilities in the long run.
He tricked Celebrimbor into making the rings before he got taken to Numenor, and then lost that ability post-Numenor
Sauron could not achieve a pleasing form after the fall of Numenor
Explains the panic expression in the eye in rotk at the end
It's a good video, and makes good points. In the end, the corrupting power of the Ring WAS so powerful that it was only destroyed accidently by those who would have each kept it for themselves (Frodo and Gollum). Sauron was right in thinking that, ultimately, no one could resist the Ring or intentionally reject its power - although really Tom Bombadill WOULD have been the best choice for Ring bearer because it seemed to have no hold on him at all, but then we wouldn't really have a story.
Thematically, it's a good illustration of the idea that evil can be smart, yet not wise. In terms of narrative, placing extensive guarding around Mount Doom would have meant a repeat of Frodo and Sam sneaking into the mountain, just as they snuck into Mordor - it wouldn't have brought anything new to the story, compared with Frodo and Sam's struggle up the side of the mountain's slope.
Very good explanation of Sauron's nature - and the limited nature in us all.
Great vid darth I love your explanation and theory videos you are a well versed tolkien disciple. Random but I'd love you to give a brutally honest review of ralph bakshis 1978 LOTR adaptation because I love your pull no punches honesty and wit although I am weirdly fascinated and love it due to it being my first experience with tolkien works. Keep up the great work dude love the videos your loyal patreon - James Mottram-
I always wondered the walking into mordor from the east theory, I know it would have taken a long time I just always thought easterlings, orcs and haradrim were in that region and maybe distant hildorien still exists east of mordor.
"There's an object out there that can effectively one-shot Sauron"
I laughed more than I should 🤣
To add to your thought process. Sauron also never expected his ennemies to put the ring in the hands of the weakest of them all.
To be fair, Tolkien does mention that a company of orcs was tasked with cleaning the road up the mountain. I think that, in normal times, it was a somewhat important and symbolic place that deserved some maintenance, but nothing more. And let us recall that when Frodo arrived, Sauron was concentrating ALL of his available forces in the Black Gate (while also assaulting multiple places in other places of Middle Earth), so I guess that in such situation, the maintenance of the road clean up to Mount Doom wasn't the first strategic priority for Sauron.
You forgot about "EYE" biggest security camera of all time... Sauron knows he can see the ring so he need not to keep a track...
Sauron didn’t know that he would be made impotent if the ring was destroyed. Gandalf tells us Sauron thought the ring was destroyed by the elves thousands of years ago.
Also, like you said, he couldn’t imagine someone wanting to destroy the ring. That’s why he concludes Aragorn has the ring cause he assumes all people want to take power and dominate the world.
It took a hobbit helped by God to destroy the ring
If I was Sauron I would have destroyed mount doom so no way to destroy the ring
@@JohanCruyff-the-Dutch-GOAT I don't think that he had the power to do that (after he lost the ring), and he physically could not comprehend someone would choose to destroy it. Even after all of the crap Frodo and Sam went through, it took Gollum and an accident to finally destroy it.
@@Fly-the-Light yeah he knew the ring will corrupt EVERY being that! The furthest they will reach is the depths of mount doom! And from there they will be corrupt, Gandalf or Galadriel and even Elessar if they had the ring on their hands so for sure he didn’t expect destruction even if someone decided to destroy it
Great video. This inability to understand one's enemy has historical precedents. I'm thinking of Napoleon and his invasion of Russia. He was unable to imagine that the Russians would continue to fight if he managed to conquer their capital. The Russians believed that the soul of Mother Russia was far more than the buildings and the streets of Moscow, so they were prepared to burn it all down and abandon the city to the French, rather than surrendering. This miscalculation, due to Napoleon's inability to understand his enemy, caused a military catastrophe of enormous proportions.
While you're at it. Let's not forget Putin thinking of Ukraine as a pushover that could be conquered in a week and look at his ego now due to brilliant Ukrainian defiance.
Sauron assumed that any person or being would succumb to the temptation of the ring: heck, look at Gandalf when he almost shouted down Frodo's plea for Gandalf to take the ring, look at Galadriel who revealed to Frodo how she would become a tryannical Queen and a new Dark Lord- and they were the most wisest and noblest beings on Middle Earth. Could even the Valar destroy it if there lesser brethren, the Maiar, could be tempted? I truly believe that the One Ring would corrupt all and not one being on Arda was capable of destroying it... And then Sauron literally shits himself in fear when he sees Frodo put on the ring within Mount Doom and then Gollum and Frodo fight for the precious, imagine thousands of years of arrogance, ignorance and miscalculation being shattered in a moment.
Sauron's parent had no problem destroying both him and the One Ring by pushing a miserable hobbit over a precipice into lava.
@@tominiowa2513 Gollum "slipped" or was punished by breaking the oath he swore to Frodo. Either way the ring was doomed.
@@skatemetrix And who enforced punishment for oath breaking?
I guess it's because "he couldn't understand the nature of good" but I think its pretty clear in the movies at least that Sauron knows that the ring corrupts anyone it comes in contact with. They in the movie that no one can hold its power because its longs for its true master, always trying to get to Sauron by corrupting those who attempt to use it. Sauron knew that no one would be able to resist this corruption, and as you said, he is correct in this thinking. Even Frodo is corrupted by this power, someone that is about as purely good as you can be, which is why he was able to complete 99% of his quest by bringing it to mount doom. It is by happenstance that it is destroyed when Golem does his thing. Sauron knows the phrase "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Its kind of like, what would you expect a bomb to do other than explode?
Sauron never believed anyone would want to destroy the ring, as you say it’s mentioned several times in the book👍🏻👍🏻
I think the reason Sauron seemingly became less of a deceiver in the late 3rd age is his title of Dark Lord. When he worked for Morgoth, there was always somebody worse than Sauron, so it was hard to read him or predict a guy who can fade into the background and rely solely on his deception. But once he became Dark Lord, it’s kind of hard to trick people who can only see pure evil when talking to him
The biggest thing we overlook in creative writing and world building is incompetence. Peoples personal biases or ignorance is often more impactful than their conscious decisions. Love the work here!
Gandalf the whilte in the two towers says "and that we should seek to destroy it has not yet entered their darkest dreams" which pretty much validates your explaination.
The elucidation you offered makes perfect sense, however, what factor(s) made Sauaron to be like this in the end? surely he was not like this before.
Well, Mordor is certainly protected. And Mount Doom is in Mordor, so ... And who guards a volcano? Nobody. It's easy to believe the Sauron didn't imagine that someone would or could sneak into Mordor and throw the ring into a volcano. Doesn't that sound crazy? -- "What if someone sneaks into Mordor and throws the ring into the volcano?" Lol. Yeah I can believe Sauron wouldn't expect that.
Darth Gandalf it is because Sauron never would suspect that the Council of Elrond puts their fate on two hobbits' hands.
Sauron: The idea of living in an active volcano doesnt sound likr a good idea 😆
Because in his mind he actually could not comprehend anyone wanting to DESTROY the ring - his arrogance made him think everyone was so overwhelmed by its power that anybody that had it would only want it for themself.
But surely even a few guards or a small battalion could have sat there though still - but yeah - in his mind he couldn't even fathom anyone wanting to destroy it.
Sauron is not immune to accidents. Another person got the ring to the end of the cracks of doom but did not toss it in, but sauron apparently forgot that lightning can strike twice, and someone could slip and fall off the edge, especially if being attacked by Gollum.
Didn't Tolkien admit in a letter that Eru "poked" Gollum knocking him into the lava?
I think I remember reading about this. There definitely was a little divine intervention on Erus part at the end.
Not enough cash on hand. Orc salaries go through the roof whenever a "Dark Lord" rears his ugly head. Supply and demand.
The joker burning the pile of money in the dark night as the mob boss watches in disbelief is a good comparison I think.
I can only imagine what was going through Sauron's mind when Frodo put the ring on in Mount Doom. Something to the tune of "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I am sure you will agree with me that The One Ring has a presence. Maybe even a small, separated part of Sauron's consciousness which is "trying to get back to its master". I will attempt to confine the following reasoning to Peter Jacksons movies as much as I can, for those who haven’t read the books yet.
The one ring can evidently change its size to slip off both Isildur's and Gollum's fingers. It is to some degree also able to influence events of chance, like slipping onto Frodo's finger at the Prancing Pony. It can manipulate not only its bearer, but also to various extent influence other beings and creatures around it. Like at the council of Elrond, where it attempts to pit the participants up against each other. It is also only really a matter of time before it eventually completely corrupts its bearer. Which Gandalf is very aware of and why he refuses to take it at Bag End. Not because he is selfish, but because he knows Frodo, being a non power-seeking hobbit, would be far more resilient to its manipulations (just as Bilbo was), and far less of a thread to the world. Frodo would be the best choice for a ring-bearer with a far lesser potential evil outcome.
[The Fellowship of The Ring]
Gandalf: "Don't tempt me Frodo! I dare not take it. Not even to keep it safe. Understand Frodo, I would use this Ring from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine."
My point is that it fully turned both Isildur and Frodo at the very last moment inside Mount Doom. Gollum would certainly not be able to destroy it, and I doubt Elrond or even Gandalf would either - because "There never was much hope, just a fool's hope."
It is almost as if Sauron had put in a failsafe, preventing anyone from destroying The One Ring once they reached "The Fiery Chasm from whence it came". Which would mean that there really wasn’t that much reason to guard Mount Doom, at least from Sauron's perspective.
So, what happened... how did this extremely unlikely event come to pass against all odds?
Well remember, Smegol swore an oath on The One Ring, to always serve its master.
[The Two Towers]
Gollum: "We swears to serve the Master of the Precious. We will swear on - on the Precious!"
Frodo: "The Ring is treacherous. It will hold you to your word."
[The Return of The King]
Frodo: "You swore! You swore on the precious! Smeagol promised!"
Gollum: "Smeagol lied."
Then right after Frodo fully claims the ring for himself, Gollum (and Smeagol) finally and undeniably betrays Frodo, in the most treacherous way, by biting his finger off and taking the ring. Now, the ring knows from years of experience, and because Gollum has also stated that "we mustn't let him have it", that Gollum wouldn't be easily persuaded to take it to Sauron, and that Frodo almost certainly would, especially now that he is fully within its control.
So, Gollum wasn't clumsy, and he didn't just randomly stumble at all. The ring doesn't hesitate to use the very first opportunity of chance it can manipulate into punishing Gollum for betraying his oath, obviously completely unintentionally destroying itself in the process.
Lol loved the statement: “Risk assessment “
Maybe Sauron considered they might destroy the one ring, but assumed it wasn’t possible and that anyone would be corrupted.
Does make me wonder if he realized it instantly before the end or if he still had to work it out.
Well done.
You display fine understanding of the epic.
I have one question;
Why was Isuldur never a Nazgûl?
Cause Isildur wasn't evil and he never wanted to serve Sauron despite the influence of the ring. Tha Nazgul were kings on the deep end of the corruption cycle.
@@haroldcruz8550
Isuldur may not have been evil but he was certainly on a corrupt path, keeping the ring against Elrond’s insistence. This would have ruined him and turned him toward Sauron’s will unless Sauron was still too weak after losing his bodily form. The ring betrayed him, to his fatal misfortune and his ghost could have been entrapped by Sauron.
I wonder if the morghoul blade is what caused frodo to not want to destroy the one ring at the end of it. Since it "tainted" him in a way.
Spot on. Sauron projected his desire for ultimate power on to all others. He saw his own avarice, greed, and selfishness in all others and saw his ring as a power no one could resist.
So they would never get rid of the source of that power: the ring.
Sauron cannot comprehend that someone would want to destroy the ring instead of taking it for themselves
I wrote this before watching. Video agreed
In the words of Bruce Banner in Infinity War: "Because we... didn't think of it."
It has also been said that no man could destroy the one ring by themselves. Things just happened the way they did cause froddo lost his finger to gollum and fell into the lava. The corruption the ring bring would have eventually failled if it wasn't from all of everything.
They specifically call this out in the movie too; "That we should try to destroy the ring has not yet entered his darkest dreams"
Oh, you used the Agarnaith theme from Lord of the Rings Online. Good choice.
I really liked this.
very well spoken.
I believe it was guarded upto the point when Aragon and others challenged at the black gate (that was the point of the last battle, to give frodo and Sam a chance)
It actually says in the book why. Sauron could simply not conceive of anyone wishing to destroy the one ring, and so he simply paid guarding Mount Doom.
Nice video. Two points.
1st: Why not take the Eagles to Mount Doom? This question has a very simple answer. More of had an Air Force. It's highly unlikely that the Nazgul possessed the only fell drakes in existence. In fact, it suggests that there were enough fell drakes to consist of a stable breeding population. The only reason the Eagles could pick up Frodo and Sam after the destruction of The Ring is that Sauron's forces had been thrown into chaos.
2nd: As you mentioned, Sauron wasn't wrong about The Ring. This is hardly surprising given that he made it. Frodo failed in his quest. Had Gollum not been there, it would have been curtains for the forces of good. Tolkien wrote in one of his letters that Illuvatar pushed Gollum into Mount Doom. It literally took an act of God to destroy The Ring. The only character in the entire series who made an attempt at destroying The Ring was Gimli.
Bonus question: Why didn't E lrond push Ilsildur into Mount Doom? I'm not sure if this scene appeared in the books and is quasi canonical at best. Canonically speaking, Elrond and Ilsildur are relatives, not just friends. Earendil (who's kind of a big deal) was Elrond's father and Ilsildur's ancestor. This scene came right after The Last Alliance of Elves and Men defeated Sauron while Sauron had The Ring. Would you push your nephew into lava to destroy a ring which didn't prevent your enemy from being defeated in the first place? When put that way, it seems kind of extreme.
I really cant compliment these videos enough. "Like everything in Tolkiens World, the answer is more complicated."
Sauron knew the corrupting power of the ring would make it all but impossible for someone to actually destroy it.
It's unlikely Sauron would have wanted to place Orcs on guard at Sammath Naur, since whilst he may not comprehend unselfish goodness any more, he certainly understands the limitations of orcish intelligence and virtue. Whilst he wouldn't believe anyone would be able to want to throw away the power of the One, he's still strategically wise enough to know that telling his Orcs "This place could destroy my power" would be an unwise admission of weakness to an untrustworthy sort of servant.
However, as the video notes; yes. The danger Sauron fears throughout The Lord of the Rings is that some mighty figure of Gondor, will emerge, wielding the Ring- and enough of Sauron's former power to enable that figure to overthrow him and take his place. Thus, perhaps, his focus on slowly driving Denethor to despair, thus, perhaps, why the Ring first tormented and corrupted Boromir his heir, and finally, in the end, why it was Aragorn, revealed and master of the Ring of Power, that Sauron feared above all else.
in the end, it was indeed bilbo's pity on gollum that saved middle earth as frodo and gollum had to fight for the ring for it be thrown into the fire.
Also got to take into account the ring around that Sauron has gone through, to the point he knows out of every option, one most likely and beneficial is the return of the king, he has put too much faith in the option that Gandalf would seek to restore the heir of Gondor to the throne than the idea of a frigging Hobbit beating him is just so stupid.
In modern terms it would be like the biggest cynic underestimating that a person with a mental handicap could beat them in a one shot hoop match.
At least coming from the movies, the alternatives to destroying the ring were never presented as real options. The ring never appeared to give its bearer real power and no bearer ever appeared to have sway over the ring. We are also never told of any examples of such an attempt.
Maybe Sauron:
- Didn’t know the ring could be destroyed by being thrown into the cracks of Doom
- Didn’t comprehend that someone would even try to destroy the ring. For instance we would/could contemplate that someone who came across 100 billion dollars today would make a bonfire of it and destroy it
- Believed that the corrupting value of the ring was so great that even the most goody-two shoes (ie virtuous) beings would not be able to resist the ring. For instance, even the immensely virtuous Galadriel and Gandalf knew that the ring would corrupt them and cause them to show themselves.
While I am certainly no lore expert it has always intrigued me why Sauron didn't at least post a few guards around the entrance to Mount Doom. It is often said that he has many servants under his command and has plenty of Orcs to spare so why not guard the only place in Middle Earth that can unmake the Ring?. The argument that Sauron knew nobody could willingly choose to destroy the Ring has always been slightly naive to my mind. Sauron surely knew of the possibility of 2 or more creatures ( whether Men, Orc, Elf, Dwarf etc) fighting for possession of the Ring and the slight chance of the Ring falling by accident. If he was militarily stretched and couldn't spare resources is understandable but by all accounts he was not. A gate, a few sentries or even a Warg would probably have saved his skin.
2:15 yoo wtf is that crawling in the bottom left corner in the volcaneo scene loool
I always thought that it *was* protected until Aragorn and the host of the Men of the West showed up to challenge Sauron at the Black Gate and goaded Sauron into emptying Mordor of his armies.
Guard duty for an active volcano wouldn't be outside of the range of cruelty that Sauron was capable of (e.g. he was absolutely cool with Shelob taking a toll on the sentries of Cirith Ungol, because the fact a _giant spider murderbeast_ was acting as an unwitting 'guard dog' of horrific nature, simply outweighed the cost of an unknown number of his Orcs 'going missing' there. Orcs were easily replaced, Shelob was not)
That aside, I can't help but wonder if a single legion of Orcs specialised to Mount Orodruin's terrain - and hazards - would have been a good idea. I don't know, because perhaps that very paranoia of there being a catastrophic risk to his continuing presence in at least some vestige of his former strength, would seem like a sign of his true vulnerability. However, who would even know about that legion unless they got that far inside Mordor? Who would even know Orcs were garrisoned close to Mount Doom or even patrolling it's foothills? Perhaps not even Gandalf at that range.
The implications of say, several thousand Orcs clambering around the lower slopes of Mount Doom, does make for a compelling alternative scenario where Frodo and Sam run into one last unexpected danger before finally reaching the door of Sammath Naur. But at that point, I can see why any such notion - if ever even considered by the author, which is simply impossible to know now - would perhaps just seem overkill. The simplest answer here seems the most convincing; that Sauron simply didn't think it was a problem.
Look at it from Mordor/or just Sauron's perspective:
- you are flanked on most angles of approach by two colossal mountain ranges (Mountains of Ash and Mountains of Shadow) both of which tower miles into the sky. These are huge natural barriers. The 'Walls of Mordor'. Not very much is going to get over those and even the one way through the Mountains of Shadow, is guarded; and not merely by Orcs.
- you are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of Orcs and other minions who are too numerous for the combined might of the Men of the West to truly defeat in open battle (yes, they defeated portions of Sauron's true military strength, but in reality, they were never going to win a conventional war by strength of arms, not in the long run; Sauron's forward reserves around the Morannon alone would have destroyed the Gondorian-Rohirrim allied remnant host if not for the destruction of the One Ring)
- Minas Morgul guards the Morgul Vale and the Lord of the Nazgul himself is it's overseer. The single obscure way up to Cirith Ungol from the Morgul Vale is largely forgotten, and it is a terrifying ascent anyway. The Secret Stair. Then at the top of this nightmare ascent, on slippery, polished to obscurity steps, there is a warren of tunnels housing an >5,000 year old giant spider originally from the Mountains of Terror (Ered Gorgoroth) in now long since drowned Beleriand.
There is, as far as anyone knows, in-universe or in real life, nothing like her. And the scariest part? Most people don't even know she exists. In elder days when Gondorians watched over Mordor from their forts and towers like Cirith Ungol, they knew _very well_ she existed. She preyed on them - and Elven travellers also passing through - all the same as she turned to preying on Orcs later.
The clue is in the very name of the watchtower; they knew about the spider watching them; literally preying on them. I can't help but imagine if they ever tried to kill her or bring her down. This is just speculation but I imagine times when a small unit would go into the tunnels looking to kill her, but didn't come out again; getting lost in the darkness and picked off one by one.
Maybe they'd end up trying that and then realising it never worked, and that she always scuttled off somewhere else. Maybe they'd try and smoke or burn her out, burning hay bales and setting fires in the webbed up tunnels, throwing many torches into the tunnels until black smoke billowed out of them in huge columns. But then a week later, someone else on sentry duty went missing. Just 'head-canon' (hate that phrase) ideas but you can't help but wonder what life was like up there for the Gondorian sentries, prior to TA 2000 (when the Witch-King took Cirith Ungol off Gondor by force, two years before he also took Minas Ithil)
- you are sat in Barad-dur, the greatest mega-fortress in Middle Earth and the absolute most difficult fortress to besiege in Middle Earth. Remember: the Witch-King nearly captured Minas Tirith in a few days. The combined might of the Elves, Men and possibly at that point still some Dwarves (unclear), were stuck besieging Barad-dur for _seven years_ in miserable circumstances out on the volcanic ash-fields. Even Crown Prince Anarion, heir of Elendil, was killed during that siege, instantly, by a rock thrown from on high.
- the one main entrance into Mordor at the North Western gap between the perpendicularly arrayed Mountains of Shadow and Mountains of Ash, the Black Gates (Morannon), is in itself one of the strongest fortifications in Middle-Earth. The Morannon is heavily garrisoned, and hidden areas in front of the gates allow for Orcs to swarm around and outflank any attackers. The Towers of Teeth flank the gates themselves, and the sheer size of this megastructure is daunting (dwarfed in size by Barad-dur of course, though by itself, already a nightmare obstacle to get through) Much as Minas Morgul provides a terrifying barrier to any way into Mordor via that route (West), the Morannon provides a terrifying barrier into Mordor from there (North West)
- Eastern Mordor is not enclosed entirely by mountains, though the Eastern roads into Mordor stretch off into arid lands dominated by the enthralled servants of Sauron, the Easterlings. Any traveller trying to even get through this way, will have to walk along the entire length of the Mountains of Ash to the North (a horrendous prospect for various reasons) by itself, let alone the _even worse_ option of walking all the way through Ithilien, Harondor, Harad, Khand and beyond (in that order) to get anywhere near reaching some angle into Mordor from the rear.
Most likely, the privations of the ordeal of the journey itself will kill almost any traveller, and if the climate shifts and weather extremes don't, then the local peoples allied to Sauron will. The Haradrim hate Gondor and the people of Khand were seen on the Pelennor Fields in Sauron's armies too. Good luck getting into Mordor that way. Even a small group keeping a low profile on foot, would be _extremely lucky_ to get that far. Then they would have the _absolute pleasure_ of walking across Mordor for hundreds of leagues to even get to Mount Doom in the North West of Mordor.
- you are faced with Gondor which is by the Late Third Age, reduced to little more than an oversized rump state with dreams of returning to some vestige of it's former glory, with an army far too small to defeat Mordor alone (or even with several allies now) Defeating Gondor had become a formality waiting to happen.
- you are faced with Rohan, a proud and determined people, but one far less advanced than the Gondorians and far more vulnerable to an all out Mordorian invasion if that time should come. They will, like the Gondorians, fight hard and cost you dearly in Orcs etc, but sooner or later they'll be defeated. Even Isengard came close to decapitating Rohan's leadership in one go (and although Isengard was soon game ended for peaking too soon and losing everything in a snowball effect in a short space of time, they still had Rohan on the ropes at one point)
If Isengard could do that much damage to Rohan, through Saruman, then Mordor and Sauron would do a lot worse. Once Gondor was destroyed, Rohan would be next (even while Gondor was being besieged, a Mordor force did invade Rohan, only to be defeated easily by the Ents and Rohan yeomanry)
They failed but the very fact that Mordor could casually lob some Orcs at Rohan while fighting all over the map at the same time, shows how dangerous Mordor could be to Rohan if they could bring their real strength. Assuming they won on the Pelennor Fields, the Morgul Host would have crushed what was left of the Rohirrim on their own soil.
- you are faced with the Elves and Dwarves, both in sharp decline in most places they still live in, who can not really stop you anymore by strength of arms. They will ratio your Orcs horrifically, as usual, but this doesn't matter. Even the Elves taking Dol Guldur would only have been a temporary setback to Sauron had he not been defeated in Mordor. Erebor, Thranduil, Lorien etc would all have fallen (and probably Imladris too in short-order) Yes, they will be a problem but offensively, they are only a regional threat now. They lack the means to threaten Barad-dur as they once did (and even back then, when they did, they still couldn't destroy the foundations of Barad-dur while the One Ring still existed)
...
From Saurons perspective, his advantages were so hilariously obvious that it would probably have just seemed excessive to garrison Mount Doom itself. Besides the implications of dozens/hundreds of Orcs being killed by the volcanic activity going on, the very need for this would seem excessive. Mordor was almost watertight in terms of it's defences. The outcome for Sauron might contradict this, but in fairness, things were working against him that he could hardly anticipate easily (literal Eru Illuvatar himself intervened when Gollum and Frodo were fighting over the One Ring above the Crack of Doom/i.e. the volcanic caldera)
Then when you consider Sauron's own arrogance and aloofness being a deified, supernaturally powerful being in a world which is increasingly losing it's magic and magical beings, Sauron _himself_ becomes disproportionately stronger and stronger as more time passes, during the waning days of the Third Age.
Ultimately, it was beneath his contempt in the first place. Even if he did have a compelling reason to guard Mount Doom (and one could argue he obviously did) the last known resting place of the One Ring was the Anduin. For all he knew, and as Saruman speculated (albeit falsely on purpose, to misdirect the White Council), the One Ring could have been rolled out to sea thousands of years before the late Third Age.
In a 'head-canon' way we could imagine an elite legion of mountain specialist Orcs clinging to the slopes of Mount Doom and prowling around almost worshipping the mountain itself, but this begs the question: how would Frodo and Sam get past them? It makes sense that there'd be nothing left in their way. The climb itself could have killed them. Their very presence inside Mordor was completely unknown to Sauron. They kept the element of surprise right until they were inside the Sammath Naur.
Why Sauron didn't go berserk after realising a halfling wearing a Mithril vest had been captured at Cirith Ungol, is strange, considering the Mouth of Sauron presented that Mithril armour to break the spirits of the protagonists. I'd argue that Sauron should have reacted to this by keeping forces in the way of Mount Doom, but up until that point, Frodo and Sam were doing well. For all Sauron knew, the halfling had been killed at Cirith Ungol. Remember, they took the 'shiny shirt' to Barad-dur _before_ the Orcs began to massacre themselves during in-fighting. Sauron didn't know that Cirith Ungol's garrison had destroyed itself over the initial fight involving the Orc Gorbag.
The key here is the fate of the garrison at Cirith Ungol. Even though Barad-dur received the mithril vest and the Mouth of Sauron presented this in mockery of the allied leaders, the thinking on Mordor's end at that point, was that the interlopers had been caught. The Mouth of Sauron elaborated to claim they had tortured the captive, but this was a rouse purely intended to upset and dishearten his opposites. The truth was that, the Mouth of Sauron had no idea what was going on at Cirith Ungol. They would have smugly assumed that the garrison was in-tact and that the full situation was about to be understood.
What the Mouth of Sauron and Sauron himself _didn't_ realise, was that the garrison at Cirith Ungol had wiped itself out (while Samwise finished off what most of what was left) Even then, Sam had temporarily taken the One Ring from Frodo, so there was almost certainly no risk of this being seen as a ringbearer invading Mordor territory. One would wonder, what Sauron would think of a supposedly lone halfling wearing a Mithril vest, making it to Cirith Ungol.
Would he know that Shelob had attacked him? Would he write it off as a randomer? When he knew that halflings were involved with events in Rohan? I'd be curious to know this.
From a writing standpoint, it could be seen as a plot-hole and plot convenience for the Cirith Ungol garrison to suddenly destroy itself at the exact moment that would be helpful, but as I said, forces were at work that were beyond the mortal realm. Eru himself watched over at very least the events at the Sammath Naur.
In other words, Sauron underestimated a lot of factors and is drowning/blinded in maniacal ego and power.
sauron was afraid that aragorn had the ring and would use it against him
Saron never in a single thought I gained that anyone could get the ring there and part with it
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah, a classic that one!
Sauron: why someone would guard a f* vulcano?
Because it never crossed his mind that someone would try to destroy it
Sauron never thought anyone would be able to destroy it...because he never could. Looking so hard all around, that he goes blind to the things right under his nose
In my opinion, Sauron was a fool to create an object that became his Achilles' heel.....
He never even considered that anyone who possessed the ring would have been strong enough to destroy it. In the book Frodo fails at the end the same thing happened to Isuldur.
This question is more so because of the films over the book, as Jackson change things to suite his new narrative, but the book dose a better job presenting that no one could actively harm the ring. Why guard the one place that the ring could be destroyed at when none one could actually do it.
While now I understand why there were no directly organized obstacles placed at Mount Doom, how come there was a huge door and a path making it easier to actually dispose of the Ring? Was the entrance and ledge made so Sauron could forge the Ring and then he just didn’t cover them up? I imagine if there was no manmade gaping hole leading into the center of the volcano, it would have been even more impossible to destroy the Ring (not just make the journey there). You’d either have to be able to stand physically on the side of the caldera opposite Barad-Dur (I doubt anything back then could protect your feet from sizzling-hot ground), wait for an eruption so you could toss it into some lava flowing down the slopes (but we already know it’s almost mentally impossible to make that decision yourself) or maybe fly in something overhead and throw the Ring in from the skies (but given the smoke, the Eye and all of the flying creatures that’s trillions-to-one). Anyway, this video shows that the main obstacle to destroying the Ring in Mount Doom is actually getting there in the first place. But the doorway makes it much easier once you are actually there…so why the door?
I mean I assume he defs used it for the forge but he's probably just a bit slack by then and didn't feel the need to destroy it
@@jaedynjoie-fils356 Sauron is both slack and cocky.
I mean imagine you store some valuable information inside a room inside a building inside a giant military based with thousands of soldiers and weapons of mass destruction nearby 24/7.
Would you consider removing the door to the room you want to protect? Probably not, since the building itself is already so guarded that you wouldn't even consider the possibility of someone getting inside the building. It would be a waste of time and resources to close the room, so why would you?
Before I watched the video my hypothesis is that the ring is so powerful and corrupting, no one would destroy it. Didn't consider that a hobbit would get ahold of it for long. Figured men or elves would take it.
I'll have to disagree, even if he doesn't comprehend the concept of "good" or the fact that someone might actually destroy the ring. He certainly comprehends the concept of "threat" doesn't he know that Isildor and Elrond (sorry if I butchered their names) already tried to do it before but due to hesitation it didn't work? Didn't he think that might happen again?
Also, as someone who almost had unlimited resources, would it have been so difficult to to station soke guards or scouts around Mount doom? A couple of watch towers? I really don't think that it would have been any difficult for him just to station a small bastion near Mount Doom just to be safe.
I agree
but it won't be a threat if they can't actually let go of the ring. Basically no one could have let go of the ring at that point because its will is too powerful to resist. Sauron actually want that to happen. He expected that to happen because the moment the ring reaches Mount Doom, it would be his because it will be impossible to get out.
What he didn't expect is there is another crazy hobbit fighting over the ring and accidentally fell into the lava. In hindsight, what Sauon needs is a fence, not guards
"No one would ever destroy my ring." Yes, agreed. His overconfidence was his weakness similar to Palpatine. He also wouldn't consider two hobbits to be any threat, or he'd have a tighter defense. 🙃
The fact that one of the main villains of the setting was only able to perceive the actions of the Valar through an imperialist lens's is quite possibly one of the most blatant instances of Tolkien’s anti imperialist and anti colonial views coming to the fore
He literally wrote letter after letter chastising people who projected such basic allegory onto his stories. Come on, keep up