MSI Abandons AMD GPUs | Intel Official Statement on CPU instability | Nintendo Switch 2
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
- So much PC Hardware News!
Sources:
wccftech.com/intel-blames-mot...
videocardz.com/newz/intel-bas...
videocardz.com/newz/gigabyte-...
www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php...
videocardz.com/newz/board-par...
wccftech.com/manor-lords-indi...
wccftech.com/dragons-dogma-2-...
• Dragon's Dogma 2 Path ...
wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-...
wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-...
wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-...
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Chapters:
0:00 I fly around like Peter Pan
0:22 Intel official statement regarding CPU stability issues
4:55 Intel Baseline profiles lower performance vs original mobo defaults
6:07 MSI statement regarding AMD GPU abandonment
8:12 RTX 4060 Ti GPU supply issues
11:12 Manor Lords blowing up on Steam
11:49 Dragon's Dogma 2 Path Tracing
14:07 Nintendo Switch 2 massive amount of leaks drop - Věda a technologie
quite frankly, i love cursor owen. he's the real twinkle bell
💀 😂
agreed, and quite frankly, he's at least 75% of the reason I watch
Me too 😂 that user is such a child
same
Same here
0:00 I see Daniel has begun learning sarcasm at the school of Steve Burke
Thanks Daniel.
That's not sarcasm, Steve's just a liar
@@shanent5793 yeah, no. If you can't pick up on the subtle sarcasm, just say so ....
Also thank you for that timestamp! :)
@@shanent5793 womp womp
"Deal with it I'm flying around like Peter Pan!" lmfao I'm 💀
Daniel "Peter Pan" Owens.
new inside joke!
"In less important news..."
Your sense of humor is excellent.
Your window resize sound effect when you shrink yourself is the best.
Well that guy got mentioned among 183k subscribers, guess it's a win win at the end, even though nickname was blured.
I want Daniel with squeaky mouse voice in Daniel-shrink mode 😂😂😂
@@konstantinlozev2272 I would pay for this!
Man, I love your floating peter pan style.
I liked how he would make noises when he moved or shrink on their other videos
You handled that so well, I’ve always found your Peter Pan method funny.😂
outside of GN, you're definitely my favorite PC benchmark channel. Keep at it Peter Pan.
I'd even say he does better at actual benchmarks than those more professional channels like GN and hardware unboxed, because they focus too much on graphs and averages.
Nothing quite like seeing the actual gameplay.
@@cnk-fn3nr Both Steves test a couple dozen games and 15 20 graphics cards. Daniel tests 1v1s, not quite the same. Both steves also present 1% and 0.1% so you're getting the exact same stability information regardless of "gameplay".
gamers nexus is barely even a tech channel, they focus way more on fake outrage clickbait that deals with tech. Heavy emphasis on the clickbait fake outrage.
@@Dempig So are you an LTT fan or an EK fan?
@@friedzombie4 hardware unboxed and ancientgameplays all the way
I’m sorry for your loss of a viewer. I pray your channel recovers from this tragedy.
Whoever that was was the heart of the channel
IMO it says more about a lack of maturity to lead off a video mocking a viewer, than the viewer's immaturity itself. How about - listen to criticism and consider it graciously and maturely? Nahhh
@patsk8872 If the criticism is constructive, sure. That wasn't it.
@@patsk8872guys i think i found him
@@patsk8872 Why is it wrong for him to mock such a person? This isn't retail where the customer is always right. This random guy decided to go on Daniel's channel and call his style "cringe and pukey childish" with insinuations of Daniel being a very immature person because of it, which is nothing short of a personal attack. If some guy sent you a message like this, you definitely wouldn't want to listen to that "criticism" either.
So intel are saying, all previous benchmark results we showed you, are null and void.
Got it.
Of Course Intel were in it as well, as they'd have to validate the motherboards... if they weren't validating mobos or even testing them... I'd seriously start questioning their basic competence.
We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong.
Intel: Mainboard manufacturers, please make sure we win in benchmarks
Also Intel: Mainboard manufacturers are causing the crashes on your systems
They needed to push past safe limits so that their i7 and i9 could match the matching Ryzen r9 chips. I found it odd that despite being built on less advanced architecture, the intel chips were matching the more advanced AMD chips this go around. Now I know why.
@@Jason-ol1tydon't forget that AMD profits massively per CPU and Intel barely breaks even. Ryzen has been absolutely crushing it.
Daniel, long time viewer/lurker, first time commenter here. Don't listen to the detractors
, just be yourself, you do you. Your audience stayed watching, for your content and for your style. Stay true to yourself, God bless.
Yep he knows lol 😂 Dan said "look at this bozo.. check out Intel"
I find it unlikely that multiple motherboard manufacturers shipped their BIOSes configured this way without Intel's direction or approval. If it was 1 manufacturer, I could buy that. It seems more likely that Intel either didn't communicate their requirements properly or else directed the motherboard manufacturers to set high power limits so their CPUs would perform better in reviews and benchmarks.
The latter 100%. Come on.. Intal is struggling to remain profitable. that additional power allowed them to stay neck n neck with AMD. Letting AMD have an unquestionable 10% lead would have been bad enough that Intel decided it was worth the risk to remain at the top of the charts. Now they're scrambling to make it not look so bad by saying it was Mobo or miscommunication. Of course they say that.. given a scapegoat in this scenario, you'd be stupid to take responsibility.
Nvidia: It ain't us, it's Intel.
Intel: It ain't us, it's motherboard manufacturers.
It's all of them.
@@earthtaurus5515except AMD lmao
@@christophermullins7163 The thing yes, yes AMD is currently not engaged in such practises. But they are a profit driven company, Bean counters ultimately make terrible decisions when barrel scrapping for profits. Because to them everything is just numbers even people. So, they all have to be equally held to task.
Mobo makers : It ain't us, enthusiasts should've put TDP limits themselves 🤣
You should do a video on time management because you manage all those students and make these badass videos
😂😂😂 love the intro
I was bawling with laughter at the high level of snark.
Modest Mouse - Float on
Can totally tell you what's the problem with Intel's stability problems. Have had a 13900KF and a 14900K now, both degraded alot. They were both running fine for the first few months with an undervolt applied. After about 6 months, my 14900k now needs more than 0.07 Vcore voltage more than it initially did. Same thing happend to my 13900KF, in the end it wasn't even stable at 1.45V at stock speeds. Sure, Intels solution will probably hide the problem a little longer, because SVID Intel Failsave gives the CPU about .2 more Vcore than it actually needs, but it's also reducing performance massively (~20% or more in multicore) and doesn't fix the issue of the CPU's degrading, if anything it makes them degrade even faster, because the chips run even hotter. Almost always ran with Intel Powerlimits, so that's not the issue either. Can only speculate about the cause, but I bet it's because of high amps in combination with high temps. Seems like Intel tried a little to hard to keep up with AMD.
Anecdotal, however reliable is that the majority of streamers who report instability and dead PC's have been people with 9900k's and above, intel CPU's.
The patterns with the 10900k, 11900k and 12900k+++++ just lends credence to intel overvolting and pushing too much current to them.
The fact that intel chips have been pinning to 100c and or throttling for 6 years should tell people something.
Except everyone has been able to fix their issues by resorting to INTEL recommended settings in the bios.
@@willbyrn5920 You don't have to lie to justify your purchase. This isn't the case.
@@skorpers what I see that shows the truth about Intel's CPU are the cooler reviews. There is performance gain with better coolers all the way up until you get to some of the best $250 360aios meaning that ANY cooler lower than that will show a 1-10% decrease due to throttling. It is a throttle monster that is almost completely untamable. Ryzen x3d shows max performance with a $50 air cooler and the result is same performance 1/2 the power draw. Unbelievable what crap Intel is releasing.. they need to use tsmc immediately.
@@christophermullins7163 Yeah at least when the 9900k and 12900k came out individually, the best custom loops available, beyond monstrous fridges as a radiator... still saw 100c temps if the power limit (within intel spec) was allowed. And when you stay in Intel spec, AMD wins in benchmarks at stock.
The silliness with your cursor and moving your image around cracks me up 😂.
Love the flashbangs! Keep up the great work.
don’t ever change mr. owen, don’t ever change
Here only for Dan "the Peter Pan" Owen
PC hardware news got me (captian) Hooked
I like it when you use your camera as a cursor. Adds a unique factor to your news or reveiws. Then again not many people have their webcam on screen while reading infomation.
Are you kidding, I love the Owen Pan!
The only reason am subscribed is that floating Owen.
I love that intro. I find cursor Daniel very helpful
I wonder if we could create a cursor set for the operating system, to replace the mouse cursor with Daniel Pan.
Day 1 of asking for an official Daniel Owen mouse cursor
I keep seeing people ask for this, but I have no idea how to make something like that. It does sound funny as a merch idea or channel member bonus or something.
I believe it's not so hard to make. Even i can do that, but installing it might be an issue since Windows legacy settings where you can apply it is buried very far down 😂
@@danielowentech I can make a cursor set. You only really need a few images: pointer (preferably pointing top left), hover, busy(waiting - this one could be funny), resize (horizontal, vertical, diagonal).
It's not really practical, since modern operating systems have dynamic cursors that you can adjust the size of, can do positive/negative addition with background, handle special display modes like high contrast for accessibility.
All of these Intel reports made me return my i7-14700kf components and plan a 7800x3d rig instead. I was once on team red using an fx-6300 but switched to Intel when the i7-6700k released. Intel's IPC was much better than AMD's during that time, and I experienced higher performance with less cores. But, its seems like the roles have been reversed. Looking forward giving AMD a try.
The 7800x3d is definitely a good choice. It's very power efficient, and makes i9s and Ryzen 9s effectively pointless for most gamers. It's seriously weird how good it is.
I'm on a 7700k right now, looking to upgrade this year to a 7800x3d as well. Time to switch teams!
AMD has been better since Ryzen 2000 tbh. Intel started shitting the bed after the 6th gen.
I honestly don't blame you. Am still on 12th gen, main rig has 12900KF, no point to upgrade any of them with the current issues on the 13/14th i7 and i9s. If I were building today a 7800X3D or 7950X3D or if there's an all 3D vcache 8950X3D in the future that would be amazing. I turned off MCE etc to be safe but ram speed on DDR5 has been my issue, which is separate from the current Intel issue no BIOS updates have cured that I'm not getting as much ram speed as I should be, but it works. I would be open to switching teams in the future, but the only saving grace were the deals when I built. You also have a much better upgrade path. I do have older AMD around the house Athlon 2, some cheap A series laptop still gamed decently, helped my friend back in 2020 with picking parts 5800X X board, solid build. Can look back at things like I should have switched but the timing didn't line up, if I had went even 3700X instead of 9600K that would have been better. Intels I've had around of the past era: 2100 (office machine tbh), 6502p skylake era low end i5 prebuilt, 9600K (at least it was only a $200 chip), 12th gen did improve on those but it really comes down to pricing that they went massively on sale, around 210-320 for their i7 and i9s. Honestly not sure but AMD should continue to improve with the next gen (boards should get cheaper in theory, perhaps get more features as baseline) and the upgrade path is better. AMD also had better packaging with 5900X than say 12900KF did as far as presentation goes.
@@TheFirstSSJmore like when zen 2 dropped, zen 1 and zen+ were subpar.
The intro snark made me super duper literal LOL. Love it. More!
Intel pushed those chips out that way so they could say they had the fastest chips. We aren't stupid. You have to under clock them so that they run correctly
Just a note since i have seen a lot of confusion. that asus profile test included games being run at 720 with an i9 and a high grade GPU, what I believe almost no one actually does. There is a paragraph there mentioning the performance drop is much smaller or null at all at higher resolutions. I for example have 3440x1440 and so there is no actual performance loss between the "optimized" mb settings and intel spec settings since at the resolution I am , the gpu is the deciding element independently of the power setting of the cpu.
Additionally the test made with the gigabyte bios was done with a 13900 qualification sample limited to 188 watts (why? do not know ) and therefore quite below intel spec, and in fact with a power limit of 188 that 13900 would perform almost like a 13600 independently of other settings so the conclusion that the 13900 performed as an i7 is not surprising at all.
Amazing content, thanks Peter
That's some real breaking news!
Thank you for keeping us up to date about the Intel case. I have done extreme testing with a 13900K and MSI MAG Z790 Edge TI MAX WIFI. I invite everyone, if you want to resolve the matter, to document your settings. Always start with a clean bios, use the latest supported BIOS from the manufacturer (do not use a beta bios, unless the manufacturer invites you to. Unless you know exactly the changes needed to get a stable environment. Save your BIOS settings, most motherboards use profiles. Set your clear bios as profile one. Most memory has proper XMP settings on the chip and should be compatible with motherboards from 2020 and newer. I am currently running with a mildly overclocked system where the Wattage hit 300W at a maximum and does not cause thermal throttling (max temps 91 degrees). I have unparked my cores. I run 38891-ish in Cinebench 23.0.
I love how you do that little, "aaaahhhh!" when you suddenly shrink down to cursor-size, Pete... 😂
Otherwise, and "less importantly", great video, as always.
I can personally attest to the fact that my motherboard defaulted to letting the mobo manufacturer set limits. It was over 1.4V and was constantly throttling due to heat. I even bought a new cooler thinking i had done something wrong. Fast forward to switching it to set the CPU limits to intel specifications and I don't have any issue and don't need to undervolt my CPU anymore. EDIT: 14700KF, mobo is ASUS z690-P prime and did have an option to switch between manual, motherboard settings, and intel settings in the BIOS.
Regarding the Switch 2's 1080p screen, I wonder if there will be any upscaling applied. At this screen size and distance it probably wouldn't be too noticeable to upscale from 720p.
I love the mouse pointer actually chuckled when i seen it last time
The mouse shrink is legendary (plus the sound you do), I do similar things around my kids and they love it. You're just an educator who clearly loves his job too much. Keep it up!
Wait, I subbed mainly because of the way you point at stuff ! I cane for gold and I found diamond.
D-A-N!
I-E-L!
M-O-U-S-E!
🎶
Try set cache to - 10 of at load core ratio... The undervolt protection is kicking in but not able to keep cache stable
MSI was one of the only AIBs, along Asus and Gigabyte, that offered 3-year warranty for AMD graphics cards in my country.
Radeon GPUs are already harder to find here and more devaluated than Nvidia ones partly because exclusive AMD partners offer shorter warranties than Nvidia exclusive ones, and now it will be even harder :(
Asus also don't produce amd graphics card an ROG strix version for high-end cards. For low end cards like rx 7600, they only give it 2 fans version while rtx 3050 has 3 fans, which is insane lmao.
@@hquan1because they can milk nvidia users more.
I get triggered about other people getting triggered; it just grinds my gears
I get triggered by people getting triggered by others. It makes no sense to get triggered by other people getting triggered.
12:07 if you do character photography in Cyberpunk 2077 with path tracing or even just DLSS Ray Reconstruction, you'll notice that your character (V) will appear grainy. It's one of the reasons why I don't use path tracing or Ray Reconstruction because I do a lot of character photography. For environment photography, however, path tracing is definitely better than rasterized or normal ray tracing.
Yeah, just got a new PC and the voltages look quite high out of the box. I've set the Intel recommended settings now and I didn't notice any degraded performance so I guess I'll leave it like that.
Love the Peter Pan cursor style, one of the best parts about watching your videos
I'm one of those affected by the 13th/14th gen Intel instability issues, started crashing during a lot of games a few weeks ago, and it's gotten progressively worse since (I'm on a 13700K, on an ASUS Prime Z790-P Wifi, and the Horizon: Forbidden West support team confirmed that my game crashes were during shader compilation due to this issue, as I sent them crash dumps/etc). There's a BIOS update for my board, but I've always been a little terrified of BIOS, so I haven't done it yet.
Am flashed to the recent BIOS for Asus TUF Gaming Z690 Wifi, though I'm on 12900KF. It's super easy to BIOS flash, not sure if it will solve your issues, but just putting the unzipped .cap file onto either a usb drive or an external hard drive you can do the flash in around 5 minutes. I too was scared of BIOS flashing. I've done 2 boards to the recent BIOS and some earlier BIOS, you can also turn off MCE, last video on here had some good suggestions for settings. Their BIOS flash is easy to navigate to and use. Not sure if it will fix things and you'd have to redo settings as they will default again (always have to turn back off armorycrate bloatware to disabled, I use openrgb when I want to adjust). After the machine restarts a couple of times, the flash is done. Just have to not touch anything for a few minutes. It's good to get over the fear of doing it though, it wasn't as scary as I thought it would be to do both my boards.
Your CPU is slowly degrading after running unlocked for so long… 😢
I love you, cursor Owen! ❤
Would this affect z690 boards too?
That intro sent me😂
Becoming a cursor is literally the most creative and entertaining way to point out stuff on screen. Never seen anyone do it and it's fun to watch 😅👌🏽
Does seem to just be 13/14th. I didn't upgrade any of my 12th gens to test, just sitting back absorbing everything said on the issues. Am stable though to be safe I turned MCE off 12900KF 4090 Z690 Asus TUF Gaming Wifi. Following BIOS updates and QVL my largest issue is just ram speed issues and sometimes updates making support better/worse across my Z690 pair. Think anyone on 12th if it's working well should just stay until this is sorted, at least for gaming workloads.
I remember my 980 Ti MSI Gaming X card was utterly trash. Never bought another MSI product since
On my MSI AMD board, PBO is disabled by default. That results my Ryzen 7900 runs at 65w max out of box. That is the behavior that we expected. Intel should fix that.
I always go back and rewatch the moment you turn in to cursor
there should be a name and a jingle you add in post anytime you shrink to cursor form. Maybe a poll to decide on a name for your cursor form...or not.
I hate my ASUS motherboard for so many reasons not even related to this. I never had an issue with my ASRock board, and when AMD CPUs had the issue, ASRock motherboards were one of the BETTER ones. Funny enough ASRock and ASUS used to be part of the same company, and ASRock ships their boards and software with MUCH less bloat garbage (i.e. fan control, extra "AI" BIOS settings, etc.) I really want to go back to ASRock or a different mobo manufacturer for my next build 200%
Your sarcasm, humor, and when you flashbang us & tell us to deal with it brings us joy 😂
lol keep up the great work dawg
With Intel those are "recommendations". So when they mention "specifications" (which must be followed) - there is I think 1. Everything else is not mandated.
I might not be the biggest fan of using yourself as mouse pointer (can be distracting sometimes), but why on earth would someone see it as bad intentions or something?
I loved the intro 😂
I guess we should expect Daniel “Peter Pan” Owen to were a green spandex outfit going forward 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Moving your mouse pointer too fast can result in motion sickness with some people. Never recall Peter moving in that pattern but roadrunner has.
Something that I think interesting on the topic at 6:07
A lot of cooler manufacturers for GPUs are in my opinion AMD only. Like there are barely any cooler manufacturers on Nvidia cards where I would say I trust them more, while AMD has companies like Sapphire. Which is for me complicated, because I do want a cooler manufacture that I can trust
Not an MSI fan, have the RX7600XT by Gigabyte. Running an MSI Mech keyboard the Mystic light software will not even run, tried every fix it just crashes all the time. Using SignalRGB for now. Upgraded my desktop 3 times about to do so again. Built 3 other PC's 2 for me 1 for my niece not one have MSI MB, 2 Gigabyte, 1 ASUS or 1ASROCK.
Stick with signalrgb dude. Mystic light is terrible.
I hope he recovers, thoughts and prayers.
9:04 = Peter Pan Maneuver FTW!
This is the funniest intro on CZcams
I like when he shrinks and cuts off the top of his frame squaring his head making him Frankenstein's monster PC news reporter !
The cursor method is great...it's a staple of the channel at this point.
We love cursor owen
“Deal with it, i’m flying like Peter Pan!” 😂
Mr. Grown Man won't be missed :3
Bios updates are also affecting other intelligence like the 13 700k significantly reducing its performance.
Yeah no fucking way did multiple motherboard brands just decide to use beyond intel recommended specifications as the standard. They don't do that because it would open them up to lawsuits real fucking fast. That's also why they always show you a books worth of warnings you have to accept before being allowed to change anything yourself.
I guarantee that was intel either not specifying standards at all, which i also find highly unlikely, or giving out specs that were too high in order to inflate the performance in early benchmarks. The latter is way more likely in my opinion.
Never quit beeing a Mouse pointer. Extra Professional Points for supporting it with a mouth made Sound. # FreePeterPowen
Best regards, from a 34 years old Man from Germany that likes Hardware. Look, i am a grown up man, too. Wheeeeee *flies away*
Do manor lords benchmarks with 4070 ti super
Guys I think we hinted enough at the default title last time, to the point where the actual content went under.
We need more tiny Daniel cursors
Spilling tea like a real queen, n1!
Edit: Motherboards no longer have "Failsafe Defaults" as an option in the option, that was removed by OEMs in favour of "Optimised Defaults", which mind you cook the CPU by running it out of spec. ASUS has been doing this since sandybridge, I know this because I had a Asus board kill a 2500K and which is why avoided them... thought they stopped but the Crosshair X670E Crosshair confirms they haven't. Their crappy "AI Tuner" is still at it and if you set it to Manual... the PC will never boot up again without a CMOS reset.
Rofl, that snark! thanks for the laugh Daniel. Just ignore the idiotic trolls, they will whinge and gripe about anything, heck even if someone gave them a million dollars they'd still complain it was not presented to them on a silver plater on top of solid gold Royles Royce. Hell, even then some of them would still whinge about the choice of car. Anyway, on to watching the rest of the video.
in otherwords without saying it msi got evga share of nvidia gpus but had to drop amd for it. thats what that tells me.
I really like watching your videos because of your tendency to shrink down to mouse curser size and float around like Peter Pan.
While the aggressive MB setting don't help the issue Intel is having, a lot of experienced tech people been investigating the issue and found the issues remain even with Intel's own default setting, so it not just down to aggressive MB settings, but obviously they don't make it any better.
Don't worry about negative comments bud you're the best !
But what exactly is intel’s default settings for these CPU’s? Hell even these new “intel baseline” profiles have wildly differentiated settings between motherboard manufacturers. No one seems to know what exactly is “by intel spec”.
Smol Daniel is legendary. Its what got me laughing several times during my low days.
He makes me laugh during my high days as well.
Damn, Daniel hit 'em with that intro. For when the pin of shame just isn't enough!
how in the world are 4060 TIs selling out???
I love when you do that, ESPECIALLY when you go "aaahh" while you get shrunk down. Literally the best wtf 💀💀
4060ti shortage is probably a combo of its a full fat die as any defect makes it a 4060 non ti and it is sold as a 4070 in laptops but for more money so im guessing they get first dibs
Nvidia is gearing for 50 series launch.
@@arenzricodexd4409 5060 ti launch is minimum 12 months away.
Good riddance to msi. First and last card I ever had from them (7870 ghz twin frozr ii) lasted not even a year and a half before it started flipping out in games. Weak solder joints.
Motherboards are okay but I don't find them particularly appealing.
irrelevant. never listen to narcissists who announce their "departure."
99% of us are here because of your presentation. keep crushing it!
Speaks volumes of the persons head canon if you floating around as a cursor just enrages them that much.
I do remember nvidia starting the GeForce 9000 series with the 9600GT serving as a correction for the subpar 8600GTS and then the rest of the generation trickling out. So it wouldn’t be unprecedented to get a 5060 Ti first since the 4060 Ti is the worst card out this gen and a competent $399 card, say as fast as a 7700XT but with nVidias feature set and 12+ gb of vram would be a huge seller.
Nvidia blames Intel, Intel blames everyone else. And now we wait for everyone else to blame the janitor.
We love cursor-sized Daniel
👇🏻
I'm not convinced that the current 4060 Ti shortage is due to NVIDIA wanting to clear inventory for the 5000 series, I think this has to do more with AI hardware sales.
NVIDIA might have had TSMC reshuffle their waver assignments to make more H100 instead of 4060s since those are FAR less lucrative than the thing that makes ChatGPT and NSA datacenters go.
I posted this on another channe....l was worried about this. I have a 13900k and an ASUS motherboard. I set multicore enhancement to enforce intel limits and SVID behavior to Intel fail safe. My chip is running stable on all of my games with these bios settings. I ran cinebench on my 13900k with these setting and still scored 35076. It still performs well.
I wonder what i should do in the UEFI for my Core i5 13600k
refer to your motherboard manufacturer's support site...but i think the issue is with the i9 chips...13900/14900. but i'm an AMD guy so don't take my word as gospel..
@@saltee_crcker2363 Ok. I heard that some i7 did have the same problem though.
if your motherboard has voltage suppression - use it to set a ceiling of 1.35 volts and cap the temp to 90 degrees. That would help with stability but you will lose some performance.
@@earthtaurus5515 I'll check that. thanks