Biological Males Should NOT Compete in Women’s Sports | Capital University
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- On April 21, 2022, the Reverse Q&A tour took us to Capital University in Ohio. Our student group hosts were the Doubters’ Club and Bridge USA.
One claim explored at the event: "Biological males should not compete in women’s sports." Should we have mixed categories? Should we have other metrics besides Male and Female when it comes to sport divisions? Watch to see how this conversation unfolds!
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__________
Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:38 Disagree with statement
4:30 Agree with statement
5:39 Second student disagrees with statement
8:22 Discussion
14:30 Clarifying stances/Outro
#transwomen #transrights #socialjustice #streetepistemology #peterboghossian
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peter has a linkedin what a surprise.
I'm a man. If I had transitioned to "become" a woman. No matter how many hormones I might have taken. No matter how many surgeries I might have undergone I would never be a woman. I would only be an imitation woman. And the same applies to women who transition to "become" a man. No amount of arguement on the part of trans activists will ever change my mind. Facts trump feelings always. In cases of true gender dysphoria* the absolute last option should be the knife. And if someone believes th hey are trans because of a mental health issue we should not be affirming their issue.
At some point in the future it may be possible to rebuild an individuals body so that they could actually become a genetic man or woman. I have no idea how that could be done but if possible by then we will have basically acquired the powers of gods.
*The overall rise of young people claiming to be Alphabet gender/sexuality versus the data we have from past generations leads me to believe that social media is playing a large part in this today. And I use the word Alphabet simply because I can not keep up with the additions.
Have you ever asked people the following:
*Biological females should not compete in males sports.*
See how people react to this one. Because sadly we've seen the real life instances of people born female and transitioning wrestling against other females. Families protest! People forfeit matches!
What do people want?
It seems more and more to me that if you ask people both questions (Not just about men but also about women), their answers will conflict. I suggest if you really want to see if people hold consistent beliefs, ask them BOTH questions to see if they hold a consistent standard.
FINA rule is based upon when someone transitioned, so if you transitioned before puberty then you can compete in woman’s sports.
This will therefore be used to argue for earlier transition instead of a principled opposition. And it’s therefore not a win for anyone opposing the Marxist deconstruction of sports.
This is the third or fourth time i try to watch one of your videos or get five minutes into one of your videos and then all if a sudden the video stops buffering. I reload, i close it and open it again, nothing. It just stops mid sentence or doesn’t load at all. I think this is very suspicious especially given that literally all other videos are working just fine and i only encounter this issue when i watch your videos. Very interesting stuff btw i enjoy the elegant simplicity of the statement you’re making. I often challenge ppl in my personal life similarly. Not for any particular reason though, just because i feel like being a dick sometimes i guess. But i like how you do it, very thoughtful.
What's hilarious is that none of them seem to realize that if you eliminate "women's sports" as a category altogether, you eliminate natural women from sports inevitably.
Exactly, if you have a category fastest wins, men will just always go through. These students, I know they're young but they don't seem to use much thinking.
It's not just the young though. I know adults in their late late 30s and 40s that have this mindset that disregard biology because of a moral obligation they feel to protect lgbqt freedom (that's my guess, I don't actually know the underlying reason - i dont think im far off though).
Yes exactly, what the hell is even going on here? I feel like I lost 50 IQ points by listening to the arguments of both sides here 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️🤔 first guy says it's up to the organization but I am not nutritional, the 2nd guy says there should be 3 categories (even though 1 out of 30k or 1 out of 110k people identify as trans) and the last girl says, biological advantage? So what? 🤦♂️🤦🤦♂️... help me please 🙏🏼
Bro I'm just saying let's let them get rid of women's sports so maybe more women will start opposing this craziness.
I'm not entirely sure that's true, at least in the long run. I kind of wonder if the problem is that most of the sports that we care about were invented by men. I wonder if there could be other sports that gave more value to the physical attributes that women are better at. If there was a sport where you won by having good flexibility, women would dominate it. If there was a sport where you won by being able to withstand G-forces, women would have an edge. I am sure people who know more about bio-mechanics than I could think of other examples.
“We could eliminate gender divisions and see who wins” - YES that was literally sports for 4,500 years, hence why no women ever used to compete in ancient olympics !!
Lol so obvious yet they do not realize it.
bingo
They're progressively going backwards.
The differences between the physical capabilities between the sexes are so painfully obvious that you have to live in an alternate reality to dismiss them. To your point about the Greeks, I have read that women in most of Ancient Greece were treated more like women who live under taliban rule today. This was not uncommon in the Mediterranean at the time. The exception being in Sparta where they were educated, competed in sports (with each other) in the nude same as men, spoke freely in public, participated in public and civic affairs, and could be seen in public without a veil. This shocked many visitors from other city-states to the point of offense. I am no expert in ancient history, so some or all of this may be incorrect, but it surprised me when I read about it.
I agree with what you're saying. The thing is pretty much every biological woman in sports I've seen knows there's a difference and wouldn't agree to create one gender division.
It's a little infuriating watching them stumble through their thought process with nobody asking them why women's leagues were formed in the first place.
100%. There's a reason we have two.
Maybe an idea for @Peter Boghossian to ask that next time then?
Or how they would define a woman.
Yeah Peter annoys me with his follow up questions. There are so many easier and better and more logical questions you could ask with better phraseology.
AGREED!!! I've seen a previous version of this experiment (at Cal Berkeley). Don't let Cal Berkeley compete against Capital University in this as a competition because, Cal Berkeley will "kill" this group! OMG! Folks really struggle to articulate their thoughts and beliefs, aren't able to substantiate either and perhaps, don't even know the difference. If the concern is about equitable/fairness in sport this is a no-brainer. The dumbing down of America... I'm all for acceptance and inclusion but, only to a degree. Lia Thomas, when competing against male swimmers was ranked 300! She kicked biological females butts. Why? It's simple science - the change in the two biological sexes through puberty give bio-males a distinct advantage. If we're talking about candidates for jobs, I'm all for full trans inclusion.
Love how people seem to think that “current testosterone levels” is the ultimate proof of fairness, and not muscle density, size, bone density etc.
If it didn’t matter whether someone was man or woman to be good enough to be on a team, then there would be no female soccer players. I’m gonna remind you that a U15 boys team beat the world champions womens team like 7-2. By that standard she made, all women would be replaced by like 15-20 year old guys.
watched that game. can confirm it was 9-2
+A Poocumber Are you reminding people that a generous group of professionals chose not to get hyper-competitive against a team of kids, you misogynist incel? And, idiot? Any elite-level female athlete would embarrass you in every way.
To be fair I don't think a lot of people are aware of much any physical differences between men and women besides hormones and breasts, general height/size. I didn't know about the difference in bone density, muscle density skeletal structure, until I did my own research.
Males competing with females in MMA would be extremely dangerous.
@@jadensmith4607 I mean, the bottom line is, men will always be born to be physically superior to women, thats just how God designed it, its literally also basic biology. Anyone who denies such a simple truth is demented
It's always the OVERWEIGHT Americans who have never run a mile that pushes this BS.
As a former division 1 athlete, this is disgusting to see.
The woke activists have not done 1 hour of sports ever in their life...dont even watch it...they know nothing of the argument, they just talk in "abstract" according to their "principles" (T-women are women, period, no buts or ifs)
That is because they are narc*ss*st.
JoeyBToonz man
#fatlazycunts
it's true these people don't seem to understand what it means to compete in any sport. The commitment to regulation, grading etc and fair play totally elude them!
It is so strange to see people who have never participated in any kind of physical activity give an opinion on how fair it would be for men to compete against women. The more they talk the more confused I am with their reasoning.
💯
But then there are those that have played some sports growing up and feel they have validity in this argument. Even tho they never played any contact sports. Or ever competed against boys or men.
There's theory, then there's practice. It seems today's society thinks theory is enough.
I don't have a problem with anyone having an opinion, but I do have a problem with how careful they were about their choice of words. It was not a robust opinion put forward by any of these folk.
"I don't have to be a veterinarian to know a dog when I see one" - one does not need a history of participation in sports to know that men don't belong in women's sports. It is a matter of basic biology, equity, and legal definitions under Title IV.
Exactly, my first thought was «Of course, the two people who clearly seem not to be athletes at all find it ok to let this happen. Funny how it is always those who are not impacted at all who do not see the problem.»
@@terfalicious The argument is one step further. The correct analogy is : «You will recognize the dog sure, but not know how dangerous he is, or how to take care of it». It reminds of Serena and Venus Williams regarding tennis. They thought they had a chance against men until theory had to face reality/man in a game. In sports, I think those who never played high level sports do not realize how big the gap is most of the times....Let alone, the physicality in sports like hockey, football or MMA where it becomes just dangerous.
That girl has clearly no passion for sports or anything related, yet her stance was so bold! Anyone who actually competes (especially in contact sports) knows that her arguments are ridiculous. She has political and ideological values that she will never stray from because she is so hardcore indoctrinated. 100 truths about sex would not have changed her mind.
She looks like a competitive eater 😂😂😂😂
All the fat has gotten to her head!! lol
She literally told him that if they had data and stats that it wouldnt matter. That is a problem.
@@jaimendivil8986 And even there she would get crushed by men ;-D
She’s the typical lgbtqia+-*^. Doesn’t really watch sports, doesn’t care about the actual women who bust their asses trying to get into the sports world, and only cares about the alphabet!
7:39 I feel bad for biological women athletes who train their lives with hard work and determination only to be shut down by random people out in public who think trans-women can compete and win in womens sports. It's very sad
Yep. It's a court case to protect girls now.
There are also a place in sports if trans people want to compete, the 'male' half of the sports are open for anyone.
And ALWAYS non-athletic people at that.🙄🤦
The problem here is none of those people seem to understand what the advantages are of being male in sport, it's not all about testosterone. They have been lied to
All of them have never lifted a finger in their life if it wasn't to pick up a fork. You have to never done sports to even think that someone born as male doesn't have any advantage against biological women.
to be fair most people dont go through life spending a lot of time what it means to be a man or a woman. You tend to focus on YOUR existance and YOUR perception so understanding where people are coming from or why rgey are holding certain views is important. And I realize that without the necessary background I shouldnt be allowed to treat people medically cuz I m not qualified....doesnt prevent me from having an opinion and my vote can very much affect how profecional health care workers have to do their job as can currently be seen in the US
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 the problem is these radical left ideas run rampant through all western institutions, with very little resistance, so it's trampling all over scientific practices, it's anti-science, and that is dangerous for both the patient and medical practitioners
I think that's it too. They really don't know how great the divide is with some sports.
They haven’t been lied to… yes ofc it’s not ALL about testosterone, but that is a big piece of the pie. Muscle mass, body structure, etc, all add into the advantages of being male.
This is not an exercise to find out who is right. This is a way to examine our own opinions to find out if we reasoned our way into them.
yep...and unfortunately, most of the time, you dont see any reasoning but a whole lot of dogmatism (as of today woke standards)
The exercise reveals stupidity and foolishness. It also tells me who to avoid vehemently.
Excellent summation. Thanks for watching! -PB Team
@@drpeterboghossian Thanks for doing this Peter, sometime come to WSU (Washington State) and do this here too.
@@drpeterboghossian Yet there was no reason. I'm shocked at how poor the reasoning was from both sides.
I (male) think a lot of people who advance this kinda ideology lack a certain perspective... When I started doing Taekwondo, there was a girl in my class who for the first month beat me every single time because she had three years experience on me and had competed provincially (overall she was a tremendously talented athlete). After a month I started to catch up... After 6 months she couldn't and still hasn't been able to beat me ever again. We're roughly the same height, she weighs a little more than me its clear that she is significantly better at Taekwondo but... the physical advantages I have gives me enough oomph to win every time.
You can see the ones who disagree on the left have never experienced 30 minutes of competitive sport, or phisical activity in general, or just walking... They have no cognition of the real world, of their body, of their strenght and their limits. Tha ancient used to say "mens sana in corpore sano" (a sound brain in a sound body). It seems to me that all the woke bullshit has an appeal on people who never entered a gym or lifted a weight, that never confronted with the material world
Yeah but she’s a girl and girls are women and some women are girls but some boys are boys that are girls that don’t have the same strength as some girls who are boys who are girls that are not as strong as some boys who are boys but play w girls who are girls that play w boys. Got it?
@@ejl74 , perfectly clear, sir...lol!
@@ejl74 😶
But notice its always people that never even thought about a sport in their life let alone at the highest level were you work and bleed and sweat your whole life and for a woman they have to work twice as hard only for a man to come along and alen Iverson "we talking about practice" them out of a life long dream
When I was 10 my sister who was three years older use to beat me in a lot of physical sports. 2 years later my sister hardly challenged me physically in any way.
Lia Thomas passed all the tests? For female athletics?
Not even a minute in, and we're in Crazy Town.
You didn't hear a Charlie Oscar Charlie Kilo is now a woman's part
Strap-on maybe, if you're in to that sort of thing.
Hey Lia Thomas is a handsome lady so don't let his big dong keep you from thinking otherwise!
Facts 😂😂
The only test she had to pass was actually testosterone levels and estrogen levels which is just absolute bs
I think what most people don’t understand is that testosterone is not the end-all be-all of things defining physical traits like strength and overall fitness. Going through development and puberty as a male changes the shape of your bones and musculature, a change that confers a significant and undeniable advantage to those individuals, something that does not change after someone transitions to become female
Anybody want to guess what Estrogen even does to a masculinized body? (hint: it doesn't demasculinize it.)
most people understand that.
Being either a man or a woman is ingrained in every fiber of our being.
You forget the fundamental bedrock of their viewpoints: there is no difference between men and women. That is why they can proudly say that a woman is defined by the individual.
Men can't be women.
Only argument needed.
I love the hillarity of the skill based argument. Imagine seding people by times in high school competition for sports like swimming and track and say good bye to a biological woman ever getting a college scholarship again.
The world needs more conversation/debate and you are bringing it, thank you.
+JA S The world needs fewer heinous, bigoted, repulsive ideologues, which means this atrocity needs to retire.
Dr. Boghossian, I'd like to see a group of athletes respond to this question.
and you expect to get honest answers and views when saying the wrong thing can terminate these people careers in a heartbeat?
@@fritzhaselnuss7852 What exactly would you describe as a "wrong thing" in a discussion like this though? what makes an opinion right or wrong? As a few people said here, most people view these discussion from their personal point of view and believe their opinion is the right one, but at the end of the day there shouldnt be any wrong opinions, no?
serena williams agrees with the doc
Yes, because the 2 that disagree have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to competition. Even in timed sports, men are usually much faster than women. Marathon running is a clear example. There races are separated by 2 or 3 minutes but male and female athletes have a difference of nearly 20 to 30 minutes.
+Dr.StephenH Just any group of athletes, regardless of whether they were already fundie bigots to being with?
These “non-athletic” people have zero understanding why there are men’s and women’s sports. The fat woman truly believes Lia Thomas has no biological advantage, that’s it’s just a fluke because “some people are better than others.”
I would genuinely like to know if she honestly believes what she’s saying, or if she’s so brainwashed that she’s unable to process basic biological facts.
This is absolutely unbelievable and terrifying to watch. I can’t tell if they’re truly being honest, or if they’re just trying to fit in with the narrative.
Either way, it’s utterly horrifying that this level of indoctrination is possible to impose on “adults”.
I still hope everyone comes out and says “gotcha!” And it was all parody.
This system is designed to show them if they reasoned into their position of if they hold a dogmatic one. Peter helped her understand that her position had nothing to do with performance. Skinny people hold the same opinion she does (see the video on Portland confrontation).
He’s doing important work to serve these students more than their professors have.
3 ignoramuses trying to tell people about sports they never played, don’t watch, nor know a thing about 🤣
@@darbyohara Grouping people by time in a sport such as swimming or track makes no sense. Might as well give out participation trophies.
@@NealGilbert1 Not to mention how performance fluctuates based on how well a person is feeling day-to-day. You'd have to constantly test to figure out what bracket a person belongs to every week.
@@NealGilbert1 right the fat guy offering that idea has never ran or swam anywhere but to a hotdog stand
I love Peters way of bringing about a debate. Students need to do this regularly.
It's amazing how the most unfit people seem to be an expert in sports
I’m so glad this channel has been growing so quickly in the last month, there’s not enough content exposing the ideologies of universities and it’s crazy
this isnt because of universities, it's much more to do with social media. Stick to legos
@@fullyfb3847 which is why Steve needs to escape dichotic thinking. Not everything breaks down into "this" or "that."
@@bbbbbbb51 why don’t we. See trans men compete with men??
@@loudorge9076 good question, but we know the answer to that ha.
@@stevejones5075 All of this insanity is coming from universities. You reflect the knee jerk insult culture of the woke because you cannot argue with reason or facts, which don't support many positions advocated by the social science advocates and administrations at universities. Therefore, they simply attempt to shut people up by shouting them down, reputation ruin and insults, as demonstrated by your comment. Social media companies appear to have a higher proportion of woke people relative to the general population and they advocate and promote the same bad ideas with censorship. Evolutionary biologists have provided ample evidence against some of these ideologies and, therefore, following the science is not an option - in most cases.
This is very difficult to watch. We are watching people that have distorted reality so great that there is no basis for understanding anything anymore. I am in shock and disbelief. The answer is a simple no with no explanation needed. We have got to get back some agreeable form of reality.
"Agreeable form of reality". Wow you really nailed it on the head with that statement!
So nailed it!
Watching his previous video with the really complicated question, there is a massive difference when you have very smart analytical people think if the question vs people doing it be feelings but have poor arguments.
What about competitions among people from different genetic lineages? If I'm not mistaken, short-distance track events are heavily dominated by men with West African ancestry, whereas long-distance races are heavily dominated by men with East African ancestry. Runners from all over the world dedicate their life to this sport but remain uncompetitive. Do we need to sub-divide the male category in this case?
It kills me when the lady keeps arguing that transgender women are women so they should be able to compete in women's sports. The problem is that transgender women are not women, they are males who identify as women.
My favorite so far and keep in mind I'm new here, is the one where the social workers were screaming and flipping him off then refused to be part of the experiment only to be part of the experiment lol. Priceless.
I cant believe when I was younger I cared about what people thought of me and what they thought. I never knew how complelty insane and literally mentally retarded a majority of society is. Wow man I was actually the sane one who let sarcastic mean bullies ruin my life. Sad story but true
You were raised to care what everyone else thinks of you. We pretty much all are. It takes awhile to grow out of that.
Because my daughter was the only girl in a fencing event a few years ago, they offered to let her to fence in the men's event. She didn't actually have to, she would have been given 1st place by default without doing anything other than being registered. She came in last place in a group of 6 or 7, but still got 1st place for the women's event. Men should not be in women's events. There are plenty of mixed tournaments for them to participate in.
Also, for all of the men who think trans "women" are women, are they willing to date them? Are they women enough for sports, but not women enough to date?
Why haven't they eliminated the weight classes in boxing?
They are not women and never will be
Re: heterosexual men dating transwomen, what I have seen when the question is posed to them is that they’ll say “No one is forced to date anyone they don’t want to.” Basically they just dodge the question. Of course in reality no actual heterosexual man is going to date another trans-identified male.
The people who repeat mantras like ‘transwomen are women’ are people who haven’t lived much life yet, either because they’re very young or because they spend most of their time online, or they’re just dishonest.
Yeah they probably would date them. Men who say men can be women are freaks and likely gay
I agree, let’s ask that question. If this trans woman is so “woman” is enough to be in women spaces. Would you be willing to date this trans individual? Both with or without gender reassignment surgery!
@@Rosie20102 I find it funny, the idea that a trans woman is “a kind of woman.” Well, what kind? The kind that no heterosexual male would date/screw/marry? The kind that performs a caricature of femininity? The kind that gets a boner from “gender euphoria” when trying on a dress in the women’s changing room? What *kind* of woman is a transwoman, really? They’re not really any kind of woman-they’re men who wish they weren’t men.
I love when Peter asks… what evidence would make you move to another line and people say “none”.
Faith is belief in the absence of evidence… how is that different from a delusion??
Faith is the acceptance of the reality of God, which cannot be known purely through the natural reason of our limited minds. This gender ideology stuff is brainwashing and a denial of reality.
@@marcuscaballarius2159 What evidence would move your belief in God one line over?
@@jerrygatts3467 Any material evidence. But there isn't any of that.
Faith is the recognition of what is present, whether it be visible or invisible, comprehensible or not.
@@jerrygatts3467 If you really listen then Christopher Hitchens could move you one line away from the Belief that there is a God
just found this channel and these discussions are fascinating!
It's interesting how an entire movement that wants equality for men and women are advocating for an agenda that will ultimately ensure (if things continue the way they do) that men take over women's sports altogether.
My first thought upon seeing this woman: "finally, now here is someone who cares deeply about sport"
Sarcasm. I almost missed it. Thanks for the laugh.
😁
yes the sport of eating and dressing like a man...
is chasing a rolling donut a sport now? 😂
😂😂😂😂
Might just be my opinion, but the first guy didn't seem like he really had thought about the topic all that much and was just standing where he stood because of "activism". What a great way to go about our decision making process.
Exactly! He literally only went to the extreme to avoid being chastised at school later I bet lol. I wonder how this would go if peoples opinion were anonymously answering.
@@Fanuc_Operator1990
I suspect some of the strongly disagree would be moving towards the center.
Went there cause there’s chicks on that side
He's definitely been a part of a sports team...
@@elonmust7470 lol. I was thinking just that. I don't think any of them have.
I would like to see the question, "is it fair for a girl/woman, who has trained for years, to be one of the top women athletes in her sport and category and is now expected to compete against a biological male?"
One of the most interesting elements to all this is how so many (presumably) feminist, cisgender women have no qualms whatsoever about throwing other (presumably) feminist, cisgender women under the team bus.
'Cisgender' is a bullshit word.
What is a cis gender?? How many genders has this society come up with now?? Lol the young people want to seem so enlightened but it is just deceived. None of these people would ever compete in any sport that co trains any endurance. Quit trying to appear more intelligent than you are and soo open minded.
@@Phisherman86 It certainly is envy and it goes beyond athleticism . It also includes their lack of a personality and the fact that they are in general, fugly as hell.
@ Cheryl Templin
I am using the regressive Left's terminology to make a point. This is no indication I agree with their suffocating and ludicrous ideology.
There's an old adage about making assumptions. Would you like a refresher course?
@@Phisherman86 like the two in red shirts.
In a nutshell, cheating in competitive sports is not ok.
If someone is assigned female at birth and transitions to male, should they wrestle men or women? Your thoughts?
@@malirk no one is 'assigned' a sex at birth. Human sex is observed and recorded at birth.
@@relaxingsounds1386 How do they observe and record it?
@@malirk female body
@@neuuser7071 So if someone has Swyer's syndrome they have a uterus and vagina but have XY chromosomes. They'll generally look like males unless they have hormone therapy.
Should someone with Swyer's syndrome wrestle men or women?
I really do love the Socratic method. Peter obviously loves it too!
Peter is a true legend. This is how one needs to moderate a debate.
If biological men can compete in women's sports, why have 'women's sports'. Just have sports.
Also interesting that the two people who think men should be allowed to compete, clearly have never played a sport in their life.
The bracketing of people in sports based on skill + weight class would ALSO essentially eliminate women's sports at an elite level, since all the higher-based brackets would consist of men.
Exactly what I was thinking .
Then people will complain and ask why woman and trans people aren’t competing in the top levels and scream bigotry and misogyny.
Let's look at a sport where weight is used.
If someone is assigned female at birth but transitions to being male, should they wrestle males or females?
And what about people right at the line. You are either going to be last in one class or first in the other. The sandbagging to get in the lower class would be immense.
@@malirk Males. They want to be a man so...wrestle the men.
I'd pay good money to see this. We can pay-per-view that sh!t ! Femenists get free access.
@@malirk I don’t think a female would even need to transition. Let’s say there was a female wrestler who was so good that she can beat the top men in that weight class. Top men being the key words. Not beating the 500th ranked man from time to time. Then she should be allowed to compete against men. Same would apply to a woman who transitioned.
And somehow if that happens people wouldn’t have a problem with it.
It’s not the same thing as males transitioning to females. Males are born with physical advantages. Take a male and female at the same height, weight, physically fit, and both trained the same amount. The male will out perform in basically every category, so when a male transitions they will have certain unfair advantages.
Do I feel bad for the women who were born as biological men that they have very few places to compete in sports and that they feel bad. Yes. I do. I’m sure it’s a horrible feeling. However, I also feel bad for the women who feel like they are cheated, or will be cheated out of winning.
It’s a tough predicament and all this is so new to everyone. Maybe it’s time and will take time for everyone to get used to it. Or maybe it will be advances in science that allows biological males to be the same as biological females on a truly physical level, for lack of better words and understanding.
We will get there tho. People will grow to learn and understand and accept trans women competing in sports. Especially, with the advancement in hormone studies. And especially if the data and studies prove it.
Or the data in the future will prove that biological males without a doubt have certain biological advantages no matter what advancement in hormones. And will be dominant in physical activities over biological females. Then maybe everyone who supports trans woman competing in sports can accept that maybe just maybe that this is unfair to biological females.
CZcams seems to try really, really hard to prevent this channel from showing up in my suggested videos. I have to actively search for it to see new videos. Weird. Incredible content though - keep up the good work.
I'm so dissapointed whenever I see a woman saying that trans women should be able to compete in women's sports. All those years of fighting for women's rights and yet we're so quick to hand our spaces back to men. Disgusting.
It would be interesting if they asked this question to actual NCAA and professional athletes. Normal people have no skin in the game and they haven't worked their whole life to be stripped of their achievement.
Thank you for your on going project to try and bring civil discourse to universities. From outside of the university environment there has been far too little civil discourse for a long time. And a big thank you for your work with John and Helen for exposing the lack of integrity on the part of some "scholarly" publications. The Rape Culture at the Dog Park was classic.
Thanks for watching! -PB Team
@@drpeterboghossian These videos will have more of an impact on society than 100 years of in-person teaching at PSU. Please keep up the great work and keep growing those subs!!
+mpetersen6 So you're looking for civil discourse in support of grotesque fundie bigotry? Why? You are endorsing a disgusting, putrid, unethical, intellectual fraud.
I love Peter. I think I look up to this guy. I don't know who he is, but damn he makes me think. He can literally make you dismantle your own position.
I think these students are actually better at debating than some others that I have seen. They are staying calm and each coming up with good arguments.
I think it’s hilarious how the current college aged student apparently thinks that because they’ve made it to college that they’ve been bequeathed with knowledge. As if, without doing any actual research on their own, they just assimilated information. As if making it into college means they now know this new information about complex ideas that they didn’t know before. Like wise by proxy. It’s unreal actually
It’s also just the general age of college students. At that age it seems most think they have life figured out. I know I did
@@alphafitter4699 actually that is not the phenomenon I’m pointing out. In the 50s or 60s, when they were teaching high school students how to think instead of what to think they arrived at college as if there was a whole lot to learn. Nowadays it’s “ummm…that’s settled science…” so there is no actual research necessary on their part. Yes I knew everything at that age but it was about living on my own not about something like the physical differences in people that call themselves trans that are biologically male and will always have inherent physiological advantages over a biological female when it comes to sports and strength in general. The empirical evidence on that matter has been available for quite some time yet college age kids currently just act like that information doesn’t even exist.
@Somewhatskeptical Theres enough evidence out there on this issue that the simple act of seeking it will reward anyone that finds it. On the Bible thing, you can no more prove the negative of what your evangelical friends believe than they can prove the positive of what they believe so that example doesn’t work at all in this instance.
@@caseybrown4360 Science knows that science is not settled. It is important for students to run the double slit experiment for them selves, collate, their findings and report.
Now days even if they do this work, they are told what to think in different areas. If they disagree they are ostracized and down graded. From when I went to college it seems the environment has changed. We were taught some things and the professors guided our discovery with most everything else.
@@bearlemley I don't think it is the environment. It is just that social science is not like the hard sciences. And while they try to use scientific methodologies, it still remains mostly philosophical given the subject matter, and is often based on subjectivity. It is why for example with the trans classifications, it is what "they self-identify as"...rather than any objective attempt at classification of sex and gender. So it isn't "they are told what to think", it just falls that way because any nutter can make a claim and it must be respected as "true". It isn't science.
Nice to see that this discussion was devoid of any hyperbole about it being transphobic to even broach this topic, or that it might be "triggering" to certain people. Everyone was calm and civil and respectful. Well done by all participants.
Sure, but it was also devoid of pretty much anything, with no belief diversity. There were no arguments made really, just statements of belief. They actually all believed the same thing. The guy standing on disagreement was attempting some form of dialectic ie thesis antithesis synthesis, where the synthesis was just run in the mill social constuctionist view on these things. He seemed rather pleased with himself lol
I think the real issue isn't the content of the discussions, but rather the newfound necessity to have them. ZOIKES!
Triggering? What a weak and feeble species we are becoming. How about we start aiming to be our best, most robust selves instead of enabling weakness by coddling? The conversation was so calm and civil they failed to achieve anything. One must risk offending in order to critically think. I am sick of these labels, such as transphobic, which are designed to shut conversation and discussion down. I can strongly disagree without being phobic about any topic, but these folks were so careful with their words so as not to be labelled. That is not a healthy society.
@@kazzana9013 i believe this was a civil exercise and was THE best if not, one of the best way to rationalise ideas to the different parties. If we have enough people sharing this around, my guess we will get the best outcome for everyone.
Fighting fire with fire isnt always the best way. We are intellectual social creature.
I also like that it's asking questions. Not the prof persuading you but making you challenge yourself. Those that challenge themselves will move
In high school I was tested in pe by the presidential challenge. It was required my whole school life but had large presence in high school because boys has to do 13 pull ups and girls had to do one. Tells you right there how we are different
Let me say that absolutely LOVE the way you have this set up. No debate. No screaming. No yelling. Every point is heard and no disrespect is given on either side of the aisle on whatever subject matter you're talking about. Awesome job.
Yh but.... I think all mentally sound individuals were shocked that people STRONGLY believe men should be able to participate in female sports. What has this world come to
It doesn't always goes as respectful as that especially with that subject.
But there should be a conclusion at the end I guess otherwise those who on one side gonna be remained delusional
Some of them they do start screaming specially when you start questioning the ideology.
The brilliant part of these exercises is that it’s not an ideological battle about the claim itself. It’s about unveiling the (often flawed) reasoning individuals have in forming their opinions and revealing why people cannot have productive discourse on these topics.
Exactly. Where many of these end up is the revelation that one, or sometimes both, sides are not interested in facts which do not support their feelings. He often asks something akin to “if I produced studies showing your belief is false, would you move one step the other way?” and the answer always ends up “no” from a certain crowd.
The inability to change one’s mind based on counter empirical evidence is a sign of ignorance and should exclude one from educational assistance from the government.
There seems to be a correlation between one’s’ stance and if one has broken into a sweat in the last few years or not.
Not a single person wanted to give their opinion. "Don't hate me, I want the organization to decide for me!"
I love this format where you as the moderator don’t actively push your own agenda, letting the participants speak for themselves. Well done!
Yeah, the luddites bury themselves in vapid, fact-free, scientfically unsupported, sheeple rhetoric, just following along until they fall off the cliff of intellectual lunacy.
What agenda does he have to push? This is literally a question about basic biology, and the 2 individuals on the left clearly showing that have absolutely no clue about biology. There is scientific, even biblical information further stating the physical differences between men and women
I am so depressed by the invincible ignorance of these 'students' - how can they have gained admission to college? They appear to know no facts, and are comfortable with accepting unquestioningly a decree from 'an authority'. It is terrible.
Most college kids have a school level of 5th grade. 99.99% of people on this planet would die if put out into the woods and left to survive on their own.
Admission into many colleges is contingent on towing the line. This stuff has come from colleges, from Foucault, Butler etc.
100% agree
@@cmmndrblu I agree. But Foucault would actually be rolling in his grave at this transgenderism BS. He believed that identity is socially constructed, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the modern wokies say. Wokies say gender identity is 'my truth' and that only I know who my true inner self is, not outside forces like social gender norms. This is a direct contradiction of Foucault. These modern wokies can't even get social construction theory correct!🤣🤦♂️
Children need to be taught HOW to think, not WHAT to think. Modern schools teach CONFORMITY.
You should also ask these questions to different age brackets. Also add soldiers these questions. It would be interesting to see how college minds obviously don’t use critical thinking and how soldiers do use it.
Interesting video. Why is there a disconnection between the argument they use and the level of agreement to the question they choose?
Would people argument and level of agreement match if the question would be phrased differently? For example "should it be allowed for athletes to choose which category they compete in? Ex. Should heavyweight boxer be allowed to compete in featherweight? Should 18yrs old be allowed to compete in under 15yrs sports?".
7:55 as an European growing up I played alot of football (soccer) and let me tell you there is a huge difference between male and female football. National women’s team are losing to u-14 (highlevel) boys’ teams. Men and women actually have very different hip structures which makes football a game more suited for men.
The problem with the “there are variables among females argument” is that they are BOTH FEMALE. As a whole, Biological males hold advantages over females - ie bone density, reaction time, speed, strength, even hand eye coordination.. which is why Lia Thomas beat the girls by almost 40 seconds in a single event. And unnaturally taking hormones doesn’t change that and definitely doesn’t add credibility to the variables argument.
The real problem is that they don’t think scientifically. The testosterone levels of men and women do not overlap at the 3 sigma level.
I think another useful distinction for the argument is that, while it's true that there is variation within a group, the specific variation cannot be predicted ahead of time. However, the variables which are important for competitive advantage can be easily predicted in trans women (all the stuff you mentioned).
If someone is assigned female at birth and transitions to male, should they wrestle men or women? Your thoughts?
@@malirk if they can cut it wrestling biological males then yes. I wrestled females during my high school wrestling time. Mainly because there weren’t enough girls for a team but now that’s changed they have an option. Society “discriminates” all the time… there are different leagues, weight classes, age groups, etc. I am not saying I deny their ability to live or exist or be happy, however notice when Lia Thomas was interviewed she said I don’t care about how people feel “I’m happy now”. Which is at the crux of the problem, we’re putting the wants of a select few over 1/2 the worlds population. The reason there isnt just an open league for sports usually is because biological males hold a distinct advantage as a whole (yes of course there are outliers) but there are biological differences and it isn’t fair to have biological males that hold said advantages competing against females. Just like it wouldn’t be okay for me an almost 40 year old man to start dunking on a team of 12 year olds because “I identify as a 12 year old”.
So to your point, we know that testosterone is not the only factor in men's physical advantages over women, but, hypothetically speaking, let's pretend it is the only factor. The upper limit set for men [transwomen] in many of if these organizations is WAY higher than any woman can achieve naturally, even in those rare instances that a woman has a DSD that enables her body to produce her higher testosterone. So in order to make it equal we would either need to allow women to take exogenous testosterone, or the upper limit would need to be set comparable to what we see in women, which no man would ever be able to achieve regardless of how much he suppresses his testosterone. So it's INHERENTLY unfair to women to allow men to compete against them. The activists will say it doesn't matter if it's unfair because it would be transphobic to exclude men from women's sports, and that tells you all you need to know about this movement.
Thank you bringing up Fallon Fox.
How would team sports work with that seeding process I wonder?
I've watched 3-4 of these by Peter (which are great). It's interesting to me how the question of fairness to the biological female athletes is never considered, or at most is hand-waved off as not a valid issue. If the top awards in a college sports nationally are mostly held by biologically born males, why would the biological females bother competing? If they can't win scholarships and Olympic metals, why have the female classification at all? Why are we ignoring the massive push from the 80s for women's sports in college? It seems to me that having male sports and then female + trans athletes sports starts to sort out as nothing more than male varsity and male junior varsity sports like in high school (United States).
+It's All Wonky What are you babbling about? That's exactly what transphobes pretend is their concern.
Keep making these videos. These are what our society needs right now. Good conversation
The circle reasoning is absolutely maddening to watch.
Right? It melts my brain. Its so hard to watch
I think a cool idea would be if a basketball game was conducted between the best/shortest NBA players versus the best/tallest WNBA players.
So, if according to the woke, gender and sex are separate things, then we should just separate the sports by sex and not by gender. Simple solution. Additionally, every single participant who is in favor of biological males competing in woman's/females sports tends to exclusively think about that person's wants, needs, and desires, while completely ignoring the actual women that the trans person would be competing with. My personal criteria is this - anyone can be and appear whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with lives of other people and the society in whole. When your ideology, gender identity, sexual preference, etc. beings to negatively affect other people - that's where the line needs to be drawn. Cool, you can claim to be woman if you were born a man and appear feminine and all that, but if you now want to change in actual women's locker room - that now negatively affects other people.
excellent commentary 4SeasonPro
Agreed
Bingo. I would just point out that it is not merely a question of woman's sports but of all women's spaces. The worst ones being access to women's shelters and women's prisons.
Yep. This really mages no sense.
“He thinks he’s a woman”
“But he has a man’s body “
“How do you know”
“…”
well said!
It's always the LEAST athletic people with the LEAST real world experience in sports fighting for this. It's purely ideological ignorance of reality. In BJJ for example, the men would beat the women probably 99% of the time in the same belt and weight class. I would really like to see the people fighting for this demonstrate their opinion, go do a sport you can all do, have the girls against the girls and the guys against the guys, then swap and see what happens. If you still think the same thing after then fine. But MOST of them would hopefully find it very dificult to continue to fight for this afterwards.
I'd like to see three athletes debate this. The basketball example was a case in point - the fact that she thinks height differences between men and women are comparable to height differences among men... it's just ignorance. Of biology and of basketball.
It's gross how quick these people are to give something away that other people worked hard for. Something that may mean nothing to them but means so much to others (female athletes).
@@JS-tv8sf that's the whole issue. At what point do we violate someone else's feelings or rights in the name of fighting for someone else's? "We don't care about your rights" is all I am hearing. So why should I care for yours and vice versa. Yawn
Exactly, and I hate it when they sports shouldn't be about winning. They can't even understand that for professional athletes, sport is a job, not hobby.
It doesn't affect them so off course
I soooooo wish to be a part of these debates. It seems you often find folks with very weak arguments. I'm always disappointed by the side I'd stand on
i really like the weight classes idea. i honestly hadn't thought about that.
Only problem is that a 170 pound male will still be stronger than a 170 pound female.
I'm 34 and the difference between these kids and my peers at the same age is astronomical. They're on a different planet
6:10 The only advantage men get when they join women's sports is they win every time. Just a minor detail.
I like watching these Q&A seminar's. It would be great if the Uni's in Australia conducted them every now and again. As a student I feel a lack of intellectual stimulation during lecture's, which is worrisome for several reasons.
Keep up the great work Peter!
There must be a connection between how the people that believe it doesn't matter and their appearance.. Because that always seems to be a common look when I watch these types of videos..
Perfect example of feelings over facts
The fact that we have to even have this conversation reveals the problem with our school system.
Are they really all saying a 5’10 70kg female is the equal to a 5’10 70kg male!?
Yes, yes they are. That silly blond person thinks a 130lb woman would not get murdered by a 130lb man in a fight
I've been quickly overpowered by a Man at 5'5 and 50 pounds lighter.( I'm 5'10, and moderately athletic at the time).
I love how Peter just lets people articulate ones position on topics. This is what school and learning used to be.
Personally they should just merge all athletics into categories of type of event. Not gender. As after the trans debate someone will identify as g or h and win the new category of competition. Causing never ending changing of rules and category. Just let the best athlete's win not based on gender identity.
Or we can flush the woke crowd back to where they belong and work on the inflation and economic depression they created, the 99 want option 2, it's just a matter of making them break the law once... I've learned this from climate narcissist's.
You would find that they would naturally segregate themselves into gender because gender differences in sport are huge. Any sport that requires upper body strength men would wipe the floor with women
Im not sure what side of the fence this person is ideologically or politically but I do appreciate that there is no outward appearance of hate. Just questions being posed and answered by random people. I appreciate a good conversation with opposing view points but dont care for hate filled or smug interviewers. I am neither left nor right by the way.
It's sad to see how confused they are.
"I want the best to compete together regardless of gender" Juliana Pena, the current UFC women champ said she wants no part in fighting men after fighting a random guy and getting seriously hurt. Serena Williams said she still stick with women tennis citing a huge difference in power, timing and endurance. These college students who make this claims have never participated in competitive sports at a high level.
These people clearly don't have any idea of how sports work. I have been practicing Kick Boxing, Savate and K1 for about 10 years and I have sparred with girls that were more skilled, more experienced, more technical than me. They were faster and had more stamina but I still had to exercise extreme restraint not to knock them down or hurt them quite badly. I have 100% respect for those girls as fighters and athletes, and its precisely because of that that I would never compete with them in a ring.
I welcome anyone here to watch the California State wrestling tournament. Californias State tournament has no divisions, so if you win you’re the best without question. The difference between the male and female wrestlers is very obvious. Not only in size, but speed and intensity as well.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
Are they in college?
The lengths those two go to avoid the actual questions is amazing.
That guy in the plaid goes ten-miles around the question.
... like watching an intellectual car-accident.
"Well, my first argument is that transwomen are women". OK, so we know you have no critical faculties and just want to recite the liturgy, and/or be a "good" person by trading whatever critical faculties you might have for an overdose of empathy. For goodness sake, transwomen are transwomen. They are males who feel like females or are for whatever reason drawn to the idea of becoming females. But they aren't actually adult human females. Obviously. We should respect their feelings and what are natural inclinations to them up until respecting and accommodating their nature starts to infringe on other groups rights, such as the right of actual women to their own sex segregated spaces. I personally would have an anonymous referendum where only women get to vote and if the vast majority of them say transwomen are entitled to the same rights they have by birth, then fine. But I strongly suspect that if that ballot was held most women, unimpeded by the "progressive" dogma that looms over us all waiting to "shame" us into silence, would vote to preserve their rights to their own bathrooms, shelters and sporting divisions.
Very well put, the whole argument (terminology, balance between empathy and logic, etc.)...could'nt do better myself...
LGBTs need to acknowledge that the majority of ppl does not reject them or the "idea of the different"...they reject the super-woke and super-cringe positions and incredibly ABSURD concepts that only a small super-loud bunch of crazy activists are promoting.
(and so stop to call T-phobic everyone and everything 1 second after someone challenge them in a discussion)
these Q&A's need be longer
To person number one that spoke. It’s not “healthy” when it affects women in a completely negative way.
Would they be happy if we gave their slot in college to someone who doesn’t qualify for it?
My freshman year of high school, they merged the P.E. classes into one coed class. This lasted less than one month, as one girl had her arm broken and another had two teeth knocked out and a broken nose.
What were you guy doing in P.E. that allowed for that?
They should have kept the feminists in with the boys.
@@robinthrush9672 the women probably tripped or bumped into the guys. Women get hurt by the slightest things.
@@robinthrush9672 Ultimate Frisbee (girl was bumped fell and broke her arm). Second one, field hockey ball to the face. Now could these injuries happen to males? Of course, just way more likely when girls try to compete physically against males.
I would add that my gym classes were not separated until 7th grade. Gee, wonder why?
"Perhaps the most dangerous by-product of the Age of Intellect is the unconscious growth of the idea that the human brain can solve the problems of the world. Even on the low level of practical affairs this is patently untrue. " ~The Cycle of Collapse: Fate Of Empires by Sir John Glubb
Also i would’ve said to person number one “this Is based on your opinion so what if you were the organization and made the rules yourself then where would you stand?”
I knew the opinions of the speakers 13sec into the video after the format was laid. There must be a liberal starter pack training guide floating around out there somewhere.
“And that’s that” - so intellectually commanding young man. Well done!
I can't wait to see how people answer after the swimming trans rule changes.
Isn't it transphobic to exclude trans women who have not undergone hormone treatment?
Doesn't excluding trans athletes who have not undergone hormone treatment show that sports are seperated on a basis of biology and physiology instead of gender identity?
Well ones grounded in biology the other in feelings.
I am elated! Finally, some semblance of sanity is returning! Next: Get men out of women's prisons and shelters!
@@terfalicious It is all in the phrasing with some of these people. A better way to put it and still push for this would be to say:
We need to get males out of female prisons.
@@terfalicious notice we don't get much news about transmales entering male spaces like prisons?
A trans-woman is a man that identifies as a woman. The fact that sports governing bodies allow men who have had surgeries and/or take hormones to participate in womens sports is absurd. A very small minority of trans-athletes need not negatively impact competitive womens sports. Allow them to identify as women, but mandate that they compete against men. Spectators may identify these people as they wish: some may identify them as women, while others may recognize them as men. Outside of the sports arena no legislation should compel anyone to enable a delusional/ill individual.
I would like to see a similar debate, but before inviting people to join the debate ask them if they can define the statistical terms: mean, standard deviation and long-tail. I suspect that the conversation would go much differently if you only selected participants who understood what these terms mean and how they apply to men and women
I think this discussion would be great if it was between actual athletes, pro ball players and the like.
I just realized that having people speak about sports that look like they have never played a competitive sport in their lives may not be a good idea. THEY CANNOT RELATE. It's like asking someone about getting robbed who's never had a penny taken away from them. Those 2 people are basically saying" WHY WOULD I CARE?" Lia Thomas is getting away with theft. They are displaying disingenuous empathy. They have ZERO EMPATHY for the REAL WOMAN losing to a MAN (Lia Thomas) and I am not sure why. Maybe because they have felt rejected their entire lives, just as the trans people have, and they find a home in the Misfit arena, which causes them to throw away rationality or logic. You can identify as a bird, a plane, or a tree, but why does one NEED to compete in sports as a female?????? Play as the gender you are born in for one hour and identify as whatever you'd like for the rest of your life. And the argument, "MOST PEOPLE WON'T DO THAT JUST FOR AN ADVANTAGE." Bro, most people won't commit fraud but IT STILL HAPPENS/ should we just allow the ones who do it to continue to? that is the dumbest argument I've ever heard.
The blonde girl has no empathy cause she is simply spitting out words implanted in her brain by the woke brainwashing process...these ppl are just "talking robots"...it's impossible to have a logical converstation with them.
Yeah, but honestly that's true for most topics. Ultimately I agree with the two "males", the sport organizations should live and die by their set of rules. Which means that some sports would not be viable depending on the rules they apply.
you realize that looks are deceiving (Maradonna never looked like a star athlete either once he took on the trainer position) and also that the legislators who eventually push such decisions through also never have participated in such activities before. So allowing non-qualified people to speak and air their concerns and views is not only necessary but required in order to educate them or change their minds.
You thought they liked u because u are a woman? This is why u deserve it and men will not be doing anything, let the man games begin.
Just so you know, they didn't like u the whole time and used u like a glue stick, and u deserve it.
The people debating had very faulty arguments on both sides and could not follow Peter's questions very well. However, it is incredible that these types of discussions are being held in universities. Having conversations with an open mind is so important for our society's health.
Please continue doing this amazing work.
I agree with you comments. I would love to see more people start in the middle and then move based on the conversation. But...almost all of these students in Peter's exercises do not want to commit to any possibility of changing their minds.
it terrifies me that these people are in college
@@bradspringer2372 Why on earth would any decently educated mentally sound person, agree that BIOLOGICAL MEN should be able to play in women sports. This should even be debated it is literally basic fuckimg biology. I have question for you. What would happen to a female that has the exact same weight, height, and skill level as Mike Tyson? Let me just answer it for you, there would be a 98% chance that the women is killed. I trust you understand why
Both of the “disagree” solutions would lead to the complete destruction of women’s sports.
The first guy really tied himself in knots!
There was a guy at work who was thinner than me, smaller than me. He played games at home all day on his computer but he was much, much stronger than me, a woman. He could lift things I couldn't, and after that experience I have to say that men are just built differently. There definitely is an advantage.
That is just a fact of life...the problem is not to see it because you are litterally "indoctrinated" into a fantasy world of your own...
(like these "students" are...I am using the " " cause you cant call yourself a true student if you dont have logic and critical thinking, but just listen and regurgitate acritically things that someone sais to you)
Asking people who obviously are not athletes - who should be allowed to complete against who :)
Why would anyone have a bracket for slow swimmers? Who is the fastest of the slowest?