The UK-Ireland Migrant Dispute Explained
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 2. 05. 2024
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Tensions are rising as Ireland is threatening to send asylum seekers back to the UK who have travelled via Northern Ireland. So in this video, we'll explain what's happened, how the Rwanda policy is affecting the issue and whether this can be resolved.
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1 - www.irishtimes.com/politics/2...
2 - www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...
3 - news.sky.com/story/first-fail...
4 - www.ft.com/content/e0449e58-7...
5 - www.itv.com/news/2024-05-01/i...
6 - www.telegraph.co.uk/world-new...
7 - www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024...
8 - www.ipsos.com/en-uk/majority-...
9 - ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...
10 - / 1
11 - www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=...
12 - redcresearch.ie/immigration-t...
13 - www.newstalk.com/news/poll-co...
A bit of clarification: the Common Travel Area covers Ireland and the UK, not just the island of Ireland.
It covers more than the two islands, it also includes the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.
to simplify it, it covers UK and Irish citizens only, Britain is allowing it to be abused and anyone found abusing can and will be returned.
This all hot air, as we have the EU Kalergi plan.
For ROI & UK citizens not open.
yea indeed that comment in the video above, makes it sound like its ireland fault because of the free travel area, just a reminder it was the uk who forced northern Ireland into what it is today.
The Common travel area is not the open border between Uk and Ireland. Itâs the right of anyone British or Irish citizen to move, live and work anywhere on these islands.
Itâs a distinction without a difference to make people feel better about the fact that theyâre utilising a system they were told to hate.
Like expat / immigrant
@@SilentEire No. It is not. It is something entirely different. You might as well try telling me that my right to head North without a VISA is an advantage of the Shengen zone. It is incorrect.
And fill me in RE people being taught to hate the CTA. Missed that.
â@@SilentEire do you often make things up in your head?
â@@SilentEireI think that the CTA is for British and Irish citizens only.
It's the right of any British or Irish person to work and live, non-British/Irish don't enjoy that right.
I don't usually comment but this is the first time I've heard an English news anchor pronounce the word "Taoiseach" perfectly.
Literally went CTRL+F on "Taoiseach" to see if anyone had commented on it before me - surprised to hear it on the vid, but, well done for using the correct term
Just say Irish prime minister. Nobody tolerable cares.
We say French prime minister, not le premiere ministre Francais.
Nor el senor presidente for Spanish speaking presidents.
@@tedcrilly46 The difference is that in both examples you gave, prime minister and president are both the respective titles, just in their own languages. Taoiseach does not translate to prime minister, it's a unique title for the head of government who holds similar powers to a typical prime minister.
@@mintcrisp94 its functionally the same.
That anyone cares is a sad example of the pointless pedantry of our times.
She might be of Irish originâŠ.
Rwanda should strike a deal to send their refugees to Ireland, then the circle will be complete. â»
lmfaoooo
Nahh well just take their biometrics and drop them back to Belfast.
There will be no 2nd plantation of Ireland from Britain.
Once in a while a leftist can think, and this is what he can come up with? It's better raise a pig farm than raise the leftists like you!
The unholy trinity
Rwanda already has a deal to send them to the UK.
The common travel area isnât just on the Island of Ireland, it also includes the Island of Great Britain and the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands as well.
As an Irish person just want to say the Irish government has fallen out with the Tories, not Britain.
The political and personal sentiment here is a deep willingness to get along and work together for all of our personal gain.
A strong GB is good for Ireland and a strong Ireland is good for GB.
The issues with the tories are because:
They pushed for a poorly planned brexit
They sold the DUP a lie destabilising the North. - This is honestly the biggest deal because a loyalist community lost at sea is dangerous.
They blamed Ireland for their decision
and now they are punishing Ireland for a disagreement they are having with France, knowing that the Irish government can't respond due to very sensitive situation in the North and around the border and the risk of further escalating tensions.
None of this would have been an issue without brexit, without BoJo, and with May nearly crashing the GB economy.
The tories have shit in the bed and want everyone else to clean it up.
No, they don't want anyone to clean it up, they want everyone to work around it and ignore the smell...
Your government is in Brussels not Dublin because you are a member state and not a nation. We voted to be a nation once again. The EU should be stopping these people in the Mediterranean and everyone would be ok.
These refugees are coming from France who come through numerous other safe countries. If Ireland has a problem with these refugees, they need to speak to France not the UK as they're the ones enabling them.
Always makes me happy when people recognise the difference between a country, its people and its government. The Tories are an utter embarassment and while the UK state itself has problems, imo the government is like 99x worse.
Agreed
Slight clarification - It was proposed that 100 GardaĂ should be posted to the border but it never went through. It was confirmed by TĂĄnaiste Michael Martin that they wouldn't be posting any GardaĂ to the border.
Yep totally correct. He said the 100 Gardai will be only near the border.
The border is 300 miles long, I'm not sure 100 people would do the trick tbh
Why does no one talk about how many safe countries these migrants pass through before getting to the UK? And how France doesn't accept take backs and actively helps them across. But no ones mad at France.. They're a safe country too.
because they have to help them cross safely. If they die and the state doesnt try to help then they get the blame
It's not illegal to leave France, the government of France cannot detain people for wanting to leave and cannot make them settle in the country.
It's not impossible some of these people have relatives in the UK or at least have some understanding of the English language.
Furthermore, the UK, to the best of my understanding has refused an offer by France to set-up a processing center on French soil to review asylum claims. People literally have no other choice than to come to the UK to file an asylum claim.
It seems like the Tory government is doing everything to ensure there is virtually no funding or infrastructure to process asylum claims, these people are waiting months and years for an answer while they sit in legal limbo unable to legally work. No wonder so many of these people are disappearing.
And isn't this the end goal? These people will go away one way or another and no longer be a problem to the UK or be someone else's problem...
Except by making the Irish government upset, now the UK is having trouble with Ireland. Cause and effect.
Sorry, but the UK receives a tiny amount of irregular migrants compared to other European countries. Within the Schengen/Dublin-zone you could send back the migrants to the country of first entry, but the UK is not a member and with large amounts of migrants that system gets overwhelmed. That's what happened in 2015 when countries receiving a lot of migrants realized that it is simply not possible to use this return clause for large numbers. That's what Germany did when they no longer send migrants back to Greece and Italy and what the UK press turned into "Merkel inviting migrants to come to Germany". Of course those were 1m irregular migrants that year and not the tiny amount the UK receives and still can't handle.
@@tobiwan001 735,000 in 2023 - the UK is smaller than a lot of EU countries. Why would this be sustainable?
@@jalapenogorilla5507 but only 40k irregular migrants. The rest were regular migrants that have a job or - in most cases - students. Do you want to send students to Rwanda too?
I think Sunak does have a point though.
Why should the UK not have a right to return asylum seekers to France (an EU country) but should be required to take them back from Ireland (another EU country)?
This all would be much less of a problem if Frontex actually did their jobs and controlled their borders.
Britain is already one of the most densely populated countries in Europe and the EU seems to think they can just dump their shortcomings of their immigration problems onto Britain.
Furthermore it is hippocritical for the EU and France to criticise the UK's Rwanda policy when they themselves are also considering a similar scheme. (Because it IS also putting pressure on their social welfare systems too, e.g. Denmark, Sweden, France, Italy, Austria, Germany etc).
At the end of the day, we can not simply take everyone in the world that wants to come to the UK. Necessary evils will have to be committed to get our asylum system and our immigration system under control as the boats coming from the shores are simply unsustainable for the UK economy. That's the bottom line. There comes a point where the economy doesn't care about humanity and too many intake of vulnerable people into an already economically struggling country will make things worse in the foreseeable future.
The vast majority of immigration isn't via these boats though, its via legal immigration allowed by the conservatives (i.e students visas). Its far more likely that the conservative stance is actually pro immigration to cheaper labour costs and benefit businesses at the expense of British wages whilst taking a hardline stance on the boat crossings to appease anti immigration members of the party and public.
when the economy doesn't care about humanity the only reasonable suggestion is to restructure the economy
â@@CS_____, no not really because the economy serves humanity. Not the other way round.
The economy always serves humanity. Morality is a luxury and prosperity brings the illusion of altruism from people.
If there are too many dependents and vulnerable people in a society, no matter what economic system you have, that is going to cost the economy negatively.
The difference here is that travelling from France to the UK, should (in theory) be much more difficult. There is no travel agreement between France and the UK, thus, the only way migrants can get to the UK from France is through illegal means. The UK also has the right to enforce border controls with France. You say that Frontex is not doing their jobs, but the same could be said for the UK, not being able to control crossings from France.
This is different from the situation with Ireland, where refugees can legally cross the sea to NI and then cross the border into the Republic and the Irish government has no legal means to stop them, due to the provision in the Good Friday agreement that prevents border checks of any kind.
Is it fair that the UK can't send refugees back to France once they reach the UK? I would argue no, but they can take steps to prevent crossings in the first place. Ireland cannot, without breaking the rules of the Good Friday agreement.
â@@henrybatten3315, my comment still stands. It doesn't mean that we just have to accept increasing numbers of people coming to the UK illegally through dinghies.
Students and legal immigration of high skilled workers are not part of this discussion I'm making.
I just do not understand why Europe doesn't take all immigrants (necessary for the economy) from South and Central America? And only 1% who are really political immigrants or because of their religion. NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!
By the way, I am Croatian living in Ireland for the past 8 years, I came here LEGALLY. I was sick maybe 20 days tops in the past 8 years. Worked in average more than 40 hrs per week. Didn't take anything that is not mine. Never had any issues with the law.
The Irish government have NOT deployed 100 police officers to the border with the North. Nor have they ever had any intention of doing so, despite what was erroroniously written in some British media.
Who thinks we going set up hard border?
â@@tiglishnobody8750literally the whole point of the Good Friday Agreement's peace treaty was to not have hard borders, neither side is just going to throw that away so easily
Ireland don't even have a spare 100 Guardia to send to the boarder đđ
@@rtsharlotte And why do we even want to?
A reasonable explanation. However, the sudden comment by the Irish minister that 80% of the 6700 âirregularâ asylum seekers this year have arrived from NI is unsubstantiated and was made a few weeks after she had been unable to answer a similar question in the DĂĄil stating the data wasnât being recorded. Furthermore, photo ID is required before boarding a flight or ferry from Britain to NI. It maybe possible that some people have done so with forged documents but unlikely that thousands have done so in the first few months of 2024. It is also important to note that these comments were made just after the Rwanda Bill was passed into law in the UK. However, the new ETA policy recently introduced by the UK for 7 Middle East Arab countries does provide a loophole for people from those countries to travel to the Uk, with a passport and then onward to NI and then into Ireland where they are claiming asylum. This gives the opportunity for Palestinians with Jordanian passports to arrive in Ireland accordingly and take advantage of the very generous asylum system whereas a regular visa application would possibly be denied. There is no data how many people are availing themselves of this option but I wouldnât think it would be high.
In my view, the Rwanda situation is merely a convenient distraction by the Irish government to deflect from their reckless immigration policy which is being rejected by increasing numbers of their citizens. Recent data shows that the number of non natives has increased by a third in the past 20 years and is now 22% of the population.
The Rwanda scheme is a convenient distraction for every government involved, it doesn't do anything to fix the problems but gives everyone something to argue about rather than fix the problem.
I live in NI and on a few occasions (including this year) when travelling from NI to GB, they never bothered checking my ID at all. The opposite way though, they always checked.
@@AshWeststar thanks Ash. Was that on the ferry, because I also travel to NI, mainly by air and photo Iâd always checked. Itâs a little while since I used the ferry but Iâm fairly certain I had to produce ID at the port. Also, checked on the internet and it said ID was required.
They very seldom check for ID when you take the ferry. From NI and used to live in Glasgow, and I'd often get the ferry home for a weekend or a short break. It was the rare exception that anyone asked for ID or for documentation. That said, I don't look like a foreign migrant, so presumably looking and sounding "local" was a factor...
@@brizzo7 fair point - this is the text on STENA LINE website, ââTravelling Between Britain and Ireland: UK and Irish citizens travelling Britain and Ireland do not need a passport to travel but are advised to take the following as proof of identity. A valid Passport with MRZ code*, Photographic Driving License, Birth Certificate, European ID card with MRZ Code**, National ID card***, International Student Card, Health Insurance/Social Security Photographic ID Card, Photographic Bus/Train Pass or Work ID Card.ââ
This is full of errors. TLDR should have done better here considering this is basically local news.
They know what they're doing
Love your channel but you are wrong about the common travel area. It's not about the border with NI . It means the right for UK and RoI citizen to travel between and work in the UK and ROI with no restrictions.
yes but none gets on a plane without ID
"Do you think Ireland's taking too many refugees" is such a dumb question because it removes the context of the housing crisis in which 35% of all Galway rental houses are vacant for no reason.
Please dont have galway ruined its such a nice city.
I wonder what moral grandstanding we're going to get from the Pro-EU lot here. I voted remain but I'm not blind to every nations short comings and a common solution needs to be developed. And before I hear "if only there some sort of union....", it ain't working, ask the Frontex border nations. We need to do better solution, an equitable one.
Oh everyone has been shit, like the Calais camps were created because the French werenÂŽt processing people, but just sending them onto the UK.
And itÂŽs really bad, as it created squalid living conditions, the FN vote in that town absolutely skyrocketed. Now I would never vote for a party like that and I donÂŽt think itÂŽs a good response, but you can see how that situation could scare people.
How about "if only there was some kind of functional government with a plan and a democratic mandate for it", that would be my answer, if only the Tories could find out that everyone outside their tiny bubble hates everything about them and their Rwanda scheme and would much rather have a functioning solution to the problem than expensive pipe dreams that don't even work in theory. Ah if only, but that would require intelligence and self reflection, neither of which are even known about in the Tory party or their supporter.
Maybe we need to face it that europe cant take much more that most populaces are done prioritising asylum and foreign help over local investment in schools infrastructure and building more affordable housing and public amenities, parks sportcentres pools/ nature preserves.
@@tomw4955 ItÂŽs a myth that assylum seekers and foreign aid is prioritised. The budget for aid is tiny compared to the budget for education or the NHS.
This is half the problem, I find most people donÂŽt actually have a clue about things like how budgets are spent.
The European asylum system is fundamentally broken (and it was so from the start). 21% of rejected asylum seekers leave the EU. What's the point then?
2 hours on a bus from belfast to dublin my hole, I want to know where TLDR is getting their bus info
It is about 2 hours. I used to live in Dundalk, which is an hour from Belfast. I could get to the docks in Dublin city in 55 minutes through the port tunnel.
If the bus is direct its close to 2 hours.
From your hole?
My hole đđ don't need anymore clues to know you're Irish
2uir. Niol Suim agam I'd thoinin a Mhico
@@esioanniannaho5939 an bhuill cad agam dul go dti an leithras?
Common Travel Area is purely between Eire and the UK. It has nothing to do with France or the rest of the EU.
but it was the EU that forced it to stay when the UK wanted to close it
@@graveperil2169 it was the inhabitants of Ireland that didn't want a border running through the middle of their country. France wouldn't have cared less, they were solely interested in maintaining the integrity of the single market. Ireland already dealt with a 3 decade war to get to the relative peace we have now, and it would have been disastrous to stick a border in the country.
Sorry but the country name in English is Ireland not Ăire.
@@graveperil2169rubbish. Itâs all about the Good Friday Agreement which is an international and legally binding treaty that has brought peace to Ireland. .
The script here is badly written, saying anyways after saying Ireland fought hard to keep the border open is very dismissive and unprofessional language, plus it doesn't seem that there is an understanding of the common travel area, and she commented on Sunak feeling his plan was working with a bit too much enthusiasm. other than that I'm happy to see this channel covering ireland
Simple solution: Irish reunification.
If it was so simple, there wouldn't of been 30 years of troubles.
@@cambs0181 exactly. And the "simple solutions" the respective governments are putting forward are equally nonsense. Sunak's chasing immigrants out of the UK - when the unemployment rate is at what economists call "dangerously low" figures and the country needs as many workers as it can get, but because of xenophobia and not a little racism it's more popular to get rid of workers than integrate them. In the State of Ireland it's all about housing - if they were to adequately house those being pushed out of the UK by racists, they would have to admit that housing is actually pretty easy to build and the housing crisis there is entirely manufactured for the benefit of the rich at the expense of everyone else. And if the heads of two governments can make ridiculously oversimplified and shortsighted proposals, don't criticize me for making a third.
Good luck with that Ireland, Uk has had the same issue sending them back to France. Once they're on your doorstep, they're your problem. Got a problem with it? Take it up with France.
Apples and oranges. The common travel area has existed since the 1920s, long before the EU, There is a special arrangement between Ireland and the UK that France and the rest of the EU don't have, such as freedom of movement even more generous than the EU. Ireland is not France and Sunkak's reasoning is plain one-sided. Ireland doesn't have a history of hosting immigrants like France to allow them to travel to the UK, but now the UK has become France's Ireland. The difference is that there are agreements in place for this and the UK is losing more credibility by simply walking away from their agreements. I hope this rime we send these Illegal migrants back to the UK, regardless, take them or take them.
100000000%
Typical englishman. For any and all problems, just blame the French.
Brexit causes disruptions? It's the French s fault
Brexit causes long queues at dover? Blame the French
Bad migration policy and bad legislation and schemes to address? It must be the French's fault
And people wonder why england is now considered an absolute joke and laughing stock worldwide
Based
How are they getting to Belfast in the first place, the tories are gladly letting them pass through. Sunak is a disgrace needs to go with the rest of the tories. The Rwanda plan is probably one of the most pointless and stupid plans in existence. England is the reason why so many countries are fucked up owing to years of colonialism followed by exploitation. Any member of a format colony should have an automatic right to asylum same can be said to the French who arenât much better.
"!British newspaper suggestion that GardaĂ are being sent to Northern Irish border rubbished"..........j/s
Itâs crazy how so many refugees and asylum seekers come from countries that arenât at war and are halfway around the world.
The economic migrants came into the UK from mainland EU, they should have been processed by the EU countries, as Ireland is part of the EU they should be speaking with fellow EU countries and Brussels to resolve this.
The complication is the CTA. It's not straightforward as in coming via EU countries. Ireland and Britain is a unique case.
Im Irish and i blame my government we've told them for years we don't want illegals here. Blaming Britain is just out government shifting blame
Blaming Britain is just a habit
90% of migrants came from the UK last year
Yes immigration on a whole has been our governments fault but this recent bout is just the Brits finding another loophole to deal with their immigration problems
Blame both
illegal immigrants by their definition are illegal. So i think you're confusing it with other forms of migration.
Of course if it were true that these migrants were an economic and cultural benefit, we'd be living in a completely different world where nations would compete to attract them
I donÂŽt think that necessarily follows. I think itÂŽs governments pandering to prejudices rather than them being any real kind of economic problem.
Nope because the voters don't like job competition (even imaginary ones) and fed by right wing lies those voters will kick out the government, the country would be better but the government evicted and no politician wants that.
It isn' t the first time they 've fallen out, it 's their latest.
They're stuck together forever
Just to note, Dublin didn't send 100 Garda to the border of Northern Ireland.
The solution is for Ireland to use the Dublin Convention to return these migrants back to which ever EU country they first entered.
Not needed, the uk wanted to send them back to france. Im sure they welcome them with open arms now ireland wants to send them to the uk.
Stick to your agreements.
As for France, that's between the UK and France.
send them to the UK
@@RazorMouth So, now we should stick to our agreements? But when we tried to deport asylum seekers back to the first EU country (as set about in the Dublin Convention referenced above), it was morally wrong? Hypocritical ****.
@@Vandel96 UK is not part of the Dublin convention. It used to be and it was able to send back migrants when it was.
How about you talk to France?
What exactly is hypocritical?
Makes no sense.
"Especially on the right"... lol you haven't got a clue, the current government is a Coalition of the two right wing parties in Ireland, this is not a "left right" issue. Ireland is a country a small towns and villages with native population of 4.2 million, the current population is 5.3 that is a massive demographic since change in the last 18 years and people have had their fill both on the left and the right.
At first, I was not used to the new hosts being kind, as I was kind of used to the usual guys, but you're doing a great job keeping the style of casual yet insightful comment around the news you report. Kudos !
"Why Britain and Ireland has fallen out" "first time?" did they ever actually Fall In??
I worry about the future of my country Ireland, the Brits never accepted our independence and the jealousy is getting worse the more they become overpopulated and poor.
I'm Irish and I think it's stupid to blame them when we could be deporting them ourselves if it weren't for the EU
I agree. If Helen McEntee hadda kept her trap shut, and blaming everyone else for her own complete incompetence, Sunak WOULDN'T be jumping up and down with unadulterated glee. It is the Varadkar lead elitist 'Government' brought this whole debacle to face another rebellion by the people, and for the people. Simple Simon, start the deportations yourself, it's not as if you don't have the money, ffs, you have the entire Irish population on their knees through taxes alone.
The EU don't stop us from deporting failed assylum seekers, that one is on Helen McEntee and the Dept of Justice.
And our country would fall apart if we werent in the eu.
The EU isn't stopping deportations.
@@Steven_Healy44you donât have a country anymore. The EU is your nation and your government is in Brussels.
I find it fascinating how the Irish governments policy on wanting to deport refugees is framed as perfectly legitimate and yet the UK government wanting to do the same thing but to France is somehow seen as "Far Right" or Xenophobic.
Thank you for that! I have been following the reporting on this in the mainstream media with increasing frustration. On the one hand, I was being told that an Irish court had declared Britain to be an unsafe country, and that this was the reason asylum seekers could not be sent back from Ireland to Britain. Which implies that there is some kind of agreement between the two countries. And indeed, I had read somewhere that there was such an agreement. And yet the media was also telling me that Rishi Sunak had said that he would refuse to take back any migrants. How could you do that if there was an agreement?
You have explained that there is an agreement, but it is secret and the British government claimed that it is not legally binding. It really is pathetic to the BBC, which I am paying for, canât explain the streets viewers and I have to go on CZcams to educate myself.
Two quibbles about the video though.
You say that the Rwanda plan involves sending migrants to Rwanda where their claims will be processed. This implies that their claims for asylum in the UK are going to be processed in Rwanda. This is not the case. They will be able to claim asylum in Rwanda and if they are successful they will stay there. Theyâre not coming back to the UK whatever happens. I think some people do misunderstand the Rwanda plan to mean that people are being deported to Rwanda temporarily while their claims for asylum in the UK are processed.
You also say that Republic of Ireland fought strenuously to keep the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic open during the Brexit negotiations. In fact, there was never any suggestion by either side in the Brexit negotiations that there would be restrictions on the movement of people between Northern Ireland and the Republic, or between the UK and the island of Ireland. The only issue was whether there would be checks on goods and, if so, where.
Finally, youâre a British channel (at least the people on it are British) so why the insistence on American English? Iâve never heard anyone in Britain pronounce route as ROWT. Never. Why? Why?
Just to clarify, I realise you understand how the Rwanda scheme works. Itâs just that people watching the video might have been misled into thinking that Rwanda is just being used as a processing facility.
Why does the a-roll often look like it's not graded? đ€
ROI an UK are at the top of the chart for approved applications (83%-75%). Now its becoming an issue and trying not to blame themselves, voters and campaigners.
Well said
Much needed context. As approvals are relatively low in the continental EU, migrants might as well come to the UK - or better still - return to the EU over the NI border and get their EU-Irish papers there. Then the UK and EU is their oyster. With elections coming up in Ireland, pointing to imperial plots and the antics of the Brits will be more of a vote winner than closing the border and being denounced as a Free Stater or a partitionist by political rivals (despite defending the border and stopping migrants leaving NI being in the Irish State's better interest). The Irish political class will rarely blame the EU which was supposed to have defendable frontiers in the first place.
Also didn't the UN rebuke the UK recently for not allowing migrants safe passage? Safe passage to where? The Faroe Islands or Iceland?
No take that figure you mentioned that's the failed cases figure. But there is no limit to the number of times a migrant can reapply and deportations in Ireland aren't enforced and are extremely rare even for those who commit heinous crimes.
@@matthewbarry376 As Rwanda and the countries of origins refuse criminals, it is like Migrant Troopers: Crime Guarantees Citizenship
EU showing that they don't care, only say they care to look good.
Also EU we left so stop dumping your trash here.
Nothing to do with the EU.
Migration is a national competency, not an EU one.
This was an agreement between Ireland and UK.
But we all know, Britain's agreements mean nothing these days.
@@RazorMouth it is since the EU are pro migration. Why do we have to have them when the EU is bigger and richer as they keep pointing out.
@@SkinUpMonkey
The EU are pro migration? đ€Ł
The EU is 27 nations FFS, get a grip.
@@RazorMouth oh so they don't work together as group that said come here you be safe and we welcome you in. Oh let's not forget how they hated the idea of us shipping people off to another country.
On the foundation of the Irish Free State, now Eire, the Irish government agreed to adopt UK immigration policy of the time, the UK's Black book of persona non gratia. This insured that their was no need for a patrolled border on the Island of Ireland, this was done at the sea ports in an era when air travel didn't exist. This evolved into the Common Travel Area (CTA) which gives the right of free movement between Island of Ireland the UK, the Isle of Mann and the channel Islands. All this pre dates the EEC let alone the EU.
The Schengen area covers 29 EU countries that officially abolished border controls at their mutual borders. The UK gained an exemption from this as it was an Island nation with no mutual border. Ireland followed to protect the CTA.
In my opinion the main driver for the current discontent is the high level of domestic homelessness (about 13K?) a domestic housing crisis together with high levels of adult children living with their parents out of necessity. SUNAK is wrong, the boat people are coming from France (an EU country) to the UK. They are (the 80% figure is disputed) coming from the UK to the Island of Ireland and then south. There are no boat people coming from France to Ireland. So the UK should take illegals back, It is the UK and France's problem to resolve the boats issue and not push the matter onto Ireland.
so basically, Rwanda deal makes migrants go to Ireland, Ireland want's to send them to UK, Rwanda deal makes migrants go to Ireland... some loop that's gunna be.
Ireland can use the Dublin convention to send them back to the EU.
The Migrants fleeing now are ones that don't understand the stupidity and pointlessness of the Rwanda scheme, once it becomes obvious that the scheme is a failure they will come back, and there will have never been a drop in the number of boats coming across. Such a failed government that is afraid of the electorate who have never had any kind of say on this absurd waste of money.
5:57 "on the right" is not right. There is resistance across the political spectrum because the immigrant influx is exasperating the already present horrendous impact on every aspect of living in Ireland.
Highest taxes and GDPPC in EU yet significant numbers rely on government support and food banks.
For a country with a huge tourism economy, there is nowhere for these people to stay.
People have to save, not spend, given the corruption by vulture funds.
Blaming immigrants for as you say the already present problems in a country is a right wing political message as old as time. Letting in less or more migrants won't fix the problems caused by vulture funds.
I can understand a country being worried if they donÂŽt have the capacity to welcome people and process them to see who is legit and who isnÂŽt, in the UK and France I think itÂŽs bullshit, itÂŽs a lack of willingness more than anything.
They arenÂŽt to blame for the problems in Ireland though, the problem is that Ireland is along with the UK the most neoliberal country in Western Europe.
@@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn Absolutely, there are more underlying problems - using immigration as an excuse is always an excuse - though it is definitely exasperating.
She said especially on the right
@@nenasiek If it was said "especially on the left", it would be seen as "by those commies".
Using divisive political wording without wider context - as is the TDLR approach, for good and bad - also excludes the middle ground.
That middle ground was my point.
Zero chance chance UK is going to entertain this. đ
You'd be amazed at how little they can do to stop it.
Thats fine but lets see if Ireland take back any future asylum seekers who decide to move from Ireland to UK đ
We should let the Russians fly over Ireland demand the RAF stay out. Russians are no threat to us
@@caezar55 They do this already. Anyway this whole issue is a Europe-wide issue and needs to be sorted by all the EU and the UK.
Time to throw away the tories so this stupid policy can get thrown away too
IN SHORT Ireland in short with a few years of immigrant migration has exposed its extreme nationalist and racist stance.
It would be interesting to see how they came up with the stats over immigration coming from NI.
It would seem the Irish government are unable to accept that Ireland is extremely racist and are looking to shift blame to UK.
Irelands has only had real immigration for a few years so cannot complain over the level of immigrants coming in, they are like the scots in this respect.
Ireland: "Britain deporting migrants to Rwanda is inhumane".
Also Ireland: "we will deport the migrants to Britain.... Who will deport them to Rwanda".
@@Hatafafa As does von der Leyen. She passively aggressively blames the threat of the "far right" for making her do it though.
Countries should all try to be peaceful with their neighbors
Germany despite its tyranny during the Nazi era seems to be on good terms with its neighbors
@@HatafafaGood one, will you be here all week?
Do you not see a little hypocrisy on the other side though?
Uk: France should take back illegal immigrants who leave their country
Ireland: Can you take back yours then
Uk: đđđđđđ
đđđđ mate, the hypocrisy is on Irelands and the EUs side. If both France and Ireland get whst they want then the UK is the only country that can't send them back to where they came from. đđđâ@FirelordAzula-xt6pk
Surely the free travel agreement only applies to British and Irish citizens, so what would be wrong with putting the army on the NI/ROI border to prevent them unlawfully sending them back? Even checkpoints don't stop free travel, they just verify it's not being exploited and wrongly used.
any migrants have to be released on the Irish side or they are illegal hostages and the UK can just ignore them with rwanda hovering over their head they will soon walk back down south
Lots of council estates in Ireland and England. Unused land everywhere enough to build new homes and demolish all the estates
if one is not careful you can spend your whole life looking for asylum in different areas
I'm Irish and I'll say something very unpopular because Ireland isn't used to being criticised: The Irish (us) have an unbearable superiority complex based on a victim complex.
We insufferably wag our fingers at other Western countries over issues we never had to face. We freeload off the UK to protect our skies and seas because we can't be bothered to make an army. We insist we're 'neutral' despite making explicit favouritism of who we support abroad, while also members of the EU which has a common defence clause, all so we don't have to spend anything on defence. If the Russian fleet fired on Cork, the UK would back us up - if Southhampton got bombed, we'd do nothing. We talk about how tolerant we are after we legalised homosexuality at the same time as Russia (30 years after England). We virtue signal over migration in the UK and then riot over having immigration here and demand the UK take the migrants back so they can be sent somewhere we said wasn't safe. We are in many ways a bit like what Sweden was fifteen years ago, before the violence woke them from their delusions. It appears we're going through the same process - I actually expect we will have one of the most explicitly racist backlashes to migration in Europe.
I'll always be Irish and will never be ashamed of being so (hence the 'we') - but I find the modern Ireland to be one a lost opportunity, that chose being trendy over prioritising its future.
You're not Irish
I think any culture has less likeable things about it, but that doesnÂŽt mean there arenÂŽt good things. I think there are unlikeable things about British cultural attitudes too, i.e we can be quite stingy, we can have a bit too much of a "itÂŽs your fault youÂŽre unemployed" attitude.
However, thereÂŽs lots of things about British culture I would defend, despite Brexit, IÂŽd say weÂŽre more open to the idea that foreign influence on our culture is a good thing than perhaps just about any other culture in Europe, certainly far more than France.
We are also open to people not taking the normal paths through life, i.e study, get a nice civil service job etc, in a way people in France and Spain often are not.
@@janemcfadden4801 This is exactly why I'm so pessimistic about this country. I laid out the contradictions, hypocrisies we're engaged in, and the sheer fact of calling attention to it is apparently proof I'm not Irish. What did I say that was wrong? Do we have a good standing army? Does the RAF not have overriding control of the skies? Was there not a riot over immigration months ago? You didn't address those points because you know they're true, the truth hurts, and as Irish people we're used to telling self-congratulatory lies over facing painful truths and addressing them, something that makes us similar to a lot of places.
Read my previous comments - you can see my referring to myself as Irish. Although I must admit, the simple act of seeing an Irish person criticise their society with anything but the most artificial and trending Americanisms is quite a rare sight.
â@@janemcfadden4801You are literally proving his point. Anyway, everything he said is spot on. Instead of saying he's not Irish, why don't you refute his points...
@@JohnSmith-tw6po , this is why I find Ireland's neutrality somewhat bizarre.
Not to mention that there are undersea cables next to Ireland where 90%+ internet transactions for through which is completely exposed to sabotaging by the Russians - are the Irish going to defend those cables with Guinness bottles and twigs?
Of course not they will call in the RAF (something many Irish people have reservations about despite they not having an army and spending a meagre 0.2% of their massive $130,000 GDP on defence - clearly the Irish aren't too threatened by Britain it seems....).
During Brexit Irekand said all border issues to be settled at EU level, essentially taking it of their hands now due to the Windsor agreement they signed
And it has been, but these are not EU/EEA citizens are they?
Open or closed border makes no difference in this.
If one wants to hop over the border undetected, they can.
100s of kms. Cant be policed.
@@yermanoffthetelly but they have a right to claim asylum regardless
@@ChrisMurray-iw9ij Not if they have already claimed asylum in the UK they don't.
@@yermanoffthetelly the UK by Irish supreme court ruling says its no longer a safe country so even if they have claimed asylum in the UK its no longer safe by irelands laws so you can't sent someone to an unsafe country or you break the ECHR laws, and thus the Good Friday Agreement.
Fucking love this, EU trying to ignore rules it wrote! Not for the first time
This is Britain and Ireland and the CTA. That's the difference. It's not between the EU.
@@jackieblue1267 Nope this is between the EU (France) and the EU (Ireland) and they are trying to pass it on to the UK.
The UK is out of the EU. We can pass our own laws to deal with this and we are doing so.
What is the Irish government doing?
It is burying it`s head in the dirt and looking for scapegoats.
"Why Britain and Ireland have fallen out?"
Those Protestants, up to no good as usual
If some of the people heading to the UK actually went somewhere else this actually means Sunak's plan is working.
It'll only work in the short term, won't be long till they realise there is almost no chance of being sent to rwanda.
Bear in mind that the British government has recently brought through the Northern Ireland Legacy act that has essentially ended the ability to prosecute British soldiers accused of murder during the Troubles. Anglo-Irish relations and general quality of human rights are at a difficult juncture once again.
Why should the terrorists get a free pass but the soldiers donât? One rule for one, one rule for another is ok for you?
And the Good Friday agreement ended the ability to prosecute IRA members for crimes they commited. The reason for doing it now is most of the soldiers are now dead, and prosecuting any that are still alive could be dismissed as scapegoating. If any soliders where going to be tried for any crime it should have been done 30 years ago. That's where your outrage should be focused.
â@stretfordender11 because you would be holding people to higher standards than the British State itself, vis a vis the army
â@@stretfordender11 the distinction is that the british army was supposed to function as a mediator to protect both communities and suppress violence from both sides. They were an arm of the state and had a responsibility to their citizen population independent of whether they we catholic or protestant. People often point to pardons on the IRA but fail to mention that those pardons were also extended to the paramilitaries on the unionist side of the conflict. The british army were an external force that were suppose to be neutral that colluded with one side and killed many more catholics than protestants. The pardons for paramilitaries were a necessary requirement for descalation and peace in NI. The british are an arm of the state and should therefore bear the responsibility of any failure of their duties in NI and any unlawful killing.
Terrorists to you , freedom fighters to us, are you ok or have you forgotten the history of our country's. But this is what they want us doing again, at each other throats when it both our governments selling us out. â@@stretfordender11
Remember men fleeing war bring their families but men going to war go alone.
New host. Nice to see TLDR team expanding. Kudos for keeping gender diversity in mind let's hope this extends further to include different ethnicities etc
Guys you are really beginning to show what side your on pls try to be more in the middle. Thatâs why we like watching you, so we can take our own stance to things and not getting influenced.
All they have to do is bus them across the birder to Belfast.
Time to hand out some Irish passports to those that have been living in the UK for some time and allow them to return to live and work legally in the UK.
Then weâll end the good Friday agreement, meaning all Irish living in the UK would lose their rights. And we will still send the migrants to Ireland via Northern Ireland because they will still get throughđ
@@cobzzy3878 see how you get on with the US with that. If you want to burn all your bridges be my guest.
Ireland can send them to Britain but Britain can't do the same to France, hmmm.
This is a key moment because if Ireland do try this it will open this whole thing up for real , so it's probably a good thing if they do it.
Yeah wird. The uk hated france for not accepting their immigrants, lets see how the uk reacts now the irish want to do the same đ
@@NLJeffEUTheyâll send them straight back to Ireland. Ireland doesnât have the strength to enforce anything on the U.K.
France is a war torn country so it's not safe for them there.
Well talk to France then. Duhhh
UK should not mess with Ireland as they don't want their Ire.
Good one
The establishment sold out to woke,,Ireland is demoralised broken,a mere playground for mass migration..
â@@Adam-wg2rfWe don't want their Ire, we just want their land.
MUHAHAHAHA
That what you get when you got a open border.
â@@moritamikamikara3879UK now stands for United kingdom of India/Pakistan calm done mate
AMMR was planned for May, and it still hasn't been implemented. It would solve all this
Should note that the Irish Goverment has stated officially that no Garda(police) will be sent to the border. Our Minster for Justice was working out plans for such a operation. Exploitive, sensationalized headline from the telegraph in this regard.
TLDR News: the only place in Britain where everyone is inexplicably hot.
It is easy to critics of Sunak to blaim him. But difficult to find a better solution.
Can someone tell me why would rawanda accept these asylum seekers in the first place?
money lots of it
They're being paid for it. They make a ton of money and it barely costs Rwanda anything to keep the migrants in detention.
ââ@@Engie50LimerickÂŁ490 million to be precise, or ÂŁ1.8 million per asylum seeker. Utter madness.
@@yermanoffthetelly agreed
We arenât having a falling out itâs the government
Tldr you still fail to mention the massive housing crisis in both Britain and Ireland
The lack of vetting for these economic migrants
The fact that they passed trough several safe countries to reach the British isles.
Also 80% of the Irish public don't want them and most of us are in agreement with the Rwanda deal.
The minute you "mostly on the right" that's how we know you are not objective and you cherrypick your data
Why Britain and Ireland fell out? Well, 800 years ago...
I'm a Brit that lives in Ireland and Ireland migrant policy is bonkers.
I don't see as many tents in the UK as I do in Ireland. Going to the benefits office here is encourage and back dated?
Ireland defiantly needs to tighten up its boarders
The Irish people & the people from the UK are united in their fight to protect our countries from what is happening.
đđźđȘđŹđ§
Can't Ireland send them to France?
well the refugees are coming through the UK so theyâre just returning them back
Can't Britain stick to their agreements?
@@RazorMouth I dont really understand how you can think its okay to send them back to UK, when we cant send them back to france. Even when we were in EU (where asylum seekers are supposed to be processed at the first country they arrive in) we couldnt send them back. Stop passing people that you clearly give no shits about to UK while also using a "moral highground" excuse to prevent their return.
@@RazorMouth the answer to your question is "Yes but the Tories can't stick to anything, even their own plans", the answer to the OP's question is "Yes, but freedom of movement means that they can move back quickly but not quite freely"
I blame the French to be sure you can't trust them thier cheese eaters right.
Not "legally binding", just like that guarantee of territory integrity given to Ukraine. Ppl sure like signing these useless bits of paper.
Hmm 'stop the boats' slogan. Where have we heard that before. For those that don't know, it's directly from the Australian Liberal Party's (our Tory party) policy. Great inspiration Richi...!
Interesting⊠So thatâs how human Pingpong(or hot potato if you know this one too) is played..huh.
It so funny to see how much the Europe has deteriorated: from worlds power house hundred years ago to clowns playing pingpong and arguing about the game laws. - I wish best luck to future generations, it seems like you will need it quit a lot.
i thought ireland loves immigrants
Economic migrants and refugees are different
@@ZJew so are u saying western countries only likes immigrants when they can economically exploit them with lower wages than the indigenous workers???
@@andrewlee-py9zm Simply only likes who are neither lazy nor criminals... Yes, I know terribly picky.
Only when they can virtue signal about it
@@comfy8250big difference between legally relocating somewhere and asylum seekers
"irregularly".. not allowed to say "illegally" anymore đ€
Only guessing as the video said the agreement wasn't made puplic but maybe the uk will but in some steps to limit illegal migrants getting to Ireland but the uk should definitely not take people back in France won't do the same
every country needs their own Rwanda plan.
Need to support a strong Middle East so they go there instead.
The Rwanda plan will be useless long term. It is only for small numbers and UK have to take an equal number of other African refugees from Rwanda. It has not even started yet but it is obvious it won't work because the vast majority can stay in the UK. The only option that would work is if none of the people arriving by boat can stay.
A certified game of hot potato huh lol
Simple: Don`t give Asylum seekers any money. They leave on their own. One, two years later and no one will show up.
Send the Asylum seekers to Falkland Islands or Ascension Island (still UK) to wait for a hearing
Neither are part of the UK.
@@CB-fz3li Neither is Rwanda
They've been dying to get back at us for not bending over during brexit.
I am right, and I feel the Rwanda idea is better than doing nothing, in spite of the costs.
You do not speak for all of us.
The Rwanda scheme is totally inhumane, in fact we actually accept assylum seekers from Rwanda, that shows you how wrong it is. Just saying "oh we have to do something", is idiotic.
@@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn First of all, I come from South Africa, trust me, I know far more about Africa than you ever will.
If they are desperate, what is so inhumane about it?
Rwanda is not at war, why is it so wrong for people to be sent there?
Please explain, in detail, why Rwandans can live in Rwanda, but people fleeing war-torn countries cannot.
I will wait for your response.
@@SubjectiveFunny Well, for someone who allegedly knows more about Africa, you donÂŽt know much about the Rwanda-DRC conflict.
@@SubjectiveFunny "Please explain, in detail, why Rwandans can live in Rwanda, but people fleeing war-torn countries cannot.
I will wait for your response"
ThatÂŽs such an idiotic statement. As has already been stated, we actually accept assylum seekers from Rwanda.
@@Letsthinkaboutit-mb7nn
We have no common ground here if you are not interested in a serious debate.
I do not blame you, the media has taken advantage of your compassion and empathy. If anything, I feel equally parts angry and sorry for you, and for those who share your stance.
There is nothing I can say that would reach you, you are far too soft.
These are hard times, you will have to learn on your own, unfortunately.
Good luck to you.
Britain has been operating an undeclared policy of trafficking migrants to Ireland for several years. Routinely migrants refused residency by British courts are set free and enabled to fly or take ferry to Belfast or Larne and pass through Northern ireland unimpeded to reach the Irish border. It is obviously a less expensive option for Britain than to enforce the ordered deportation and all the legal costs that would arise from legal appeals and the housing of migrants throughout the legal process.
One notorious example is the case of a young Egyptian asylum seeker who travelled through Northern Ireland and ended up in Dundalk, County Louth in 2016 where he applied for residency in the Irish Republic. In January 2017 this young man went berserk on the streets of Dundalk, when armed with a knife he murdered an unsuspecting Japanese student and stabbed two Irish citizenns.
A very significant drop from your normal high standards TLDR. May I suggest that you actually go and read the texts memorandums of understanding with regards to the CTA. Firstly it applies only to British and Irish CITIZENs not residents, it applies to the republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, not just the island of Ireland. It is treated as separate to and EU or Brexit matters as it is predates the countries membership to the EU. It can be traced all the way back to 1923 in fact. The CTA does commit both countries to Data sharing and to combat the Abuse of the CTA. so questionable interpterion from the UK as to what constitutes abuse?
no worries, the Irish govt have a plan to silence dissent by telling Irish taxpayers they have a moral obligation to provide for the upkeep of unlimited numbers of asylum seekers (inc. âŹ1m per month on Ukrainian's pets) amid a chronic housing crisis and record homelessness levels; raiding the houses of local councillors who criticised them and accusing politicians of being dangerously divisive for pointing out that an Irish pensioner was threatened with prison and having his home demolished for putting a cabin on his own land while they by-pass planning regulations to provide rapid-build modular housing on state land for non-Irish people with Irish tax-payer money; refusing to answer questions re. who owns the lands they are building refugee housing on and how much public money is being funneled into the pockets of wealthy contractors; refusing to give information to the local communities and dismissing their concerns as being down to 'racism'; staging PR stunts like putting mothers and children first off the bus in Roscrea and re-routing a Dublin protest march forcing the protestors to walk past a crowd of counter-demonstrators in hopes of instigating a clash for the cameras; walking off stage when they are asked a question by a journalist they don't want to talk to; talking up the threat from the 'far right' (even though the grassroots protests springing up in towns and villages are so unco-ordinated and leaderless that some have accidentally marched in the wrong direction on occasion); removing the horses of the Coolock lads; and erecting barriers on Mount Street to block rough-sleeping asylum seekers from pitching tents en masse and disperse them to other less visible areas of Dublin away from the gaze of the world media
Centre right parties in both islands scapegoating human beings in need of help rather than doing anything about housing crisis or inflation
Bring millions new people on welfare to combat housing crisis? Sure? Or maybe the exact opposite?
And how is taking unlimited numbers of asylum seekers going to help the housing crisis?
Land area doesn't change with population. It is a constant.
Do you think the UK should just accept an unlimited number of asylum seekers and refugees?
Give the economic migrants no benefits, nothing & defund the NGO'S who facilitie this, then it will stop.
Up yours Brexit Sunak......Signed : Ireland
Britain reneging on an agreement, shock horror. đ
Yep when it's regarding our former slaves we do.
I think the ignorance shown by the UK with this issue is disgusting and deliberate. I'm very disappointed with TLDR also because they usually give an impartial point of view on world issues. Saying that the Irish government "fought vigorously" for the open border at the north is lazy reporting, the Good Friday agreement is also something the UK has signed up to. Just because England & Wales voted to leave the EU on baseless lies doesn't mean other binding agreements are null and void.
I've seen interviews with some of these immigrants sleeping rough on our capital & they've said they've come from the UK because of the Rwanda policy As much as your prime minister has denied it. One guy interviewed said he was from Afghanistan and spent 17 years in the system in the UK, he even had a London accent!
There are no boats landing at our shores like in England, we can process people at our ports & airports, so any other immigrants after that can only be coming through the north and there has been an 80-90% increase of late.
Why is it always the uk fault with the Irish I've noticed this they blame the uk for everything
Only a complete lunatic would want a hard border between the North and the South.
@@scott6926 I mean if you need that to be explained to you then I expect you arenât the brightest fellow
Open boards is for ROI & UK legally
Its funny how the Irish are raging about getting immigrants yet theres loads of Irish immigrants in the UK and USA
U do know the reason why 80% of those irish immigrants are there right? Cuz the uk starved the irish when yall tried to colonize them. Also america's population is basicly all immigrants or their descendants
Normally the Irish are very welcoming people, but Ireland does have its fair share of gammons and they do tend to be loud, and things have been more toxic post 2016 just like everywhere else, and all this migration thing is happening as the country is experiencing a severe housing crisis. Of course some people will not compute much and start making angry noises, but Iâm sure most Irish people are not cognitively dissonant as your comment seems to suggest.
@@threesixnine369six I'm 99% certain that if things were the other way around, England would be the villains. I know from experience that Ireland is not as accepting as you think they are. For starters all I ever hear is how the Irish hate the English (not very welcoming) and the Irish hate the native traveller community. There's still loads of racism towards travellers to this day, and the Irish certainly seem to hate them the most.
Inshallah Ireland is once again free from foreign occupation.
Does not seem to be free of this "Inshallah" creepiness.
The UK are playing by ECHR rules so if any country returns immigrants then that country must be able to return to sender being France.. All immigrants in UK and Ireland came from France
If they came from france to uk and made their way to Ireland , France should take them back. Ireland isn't in the Shengen area (borderless travel within EU)
First, the UK tries to send asylum seekers to a third world country like Rwanda, and now Ireland is doing the same. What happened to compassion đą
We don't want tens of thousands of illegal immigrants
Compassion doesn't pay bills
Anyone with high enough compassion to actually pay increased taxes, accepting elevating crime and in long term accepting having their country in to a third world one? Just curious, if you find that one send them all there.
Because they are not refugees. Ireland has had no problems in the past with refugees, Ireland has been very welcoming to immigrants from Poland, Philippines, Nigeria and recently Ukrainian refugees, but these people are not refugees. It's all men 20-30 years old. It is never women and children.
would you be willing to house them in your home? or are you all talk?
It's not Ireland attacking other country's, reap what you sow..
Yeah, West is suffering due to having some lefties in charge and not people who would defend their countries.
Palestine flag detected, opinion rejected.
Kinda like how fakestine attacked Israel on Oct 7
"If people come to our country illegally, but aren't allowed to stay, they're less likely to come."
I wouldn't be too sure about that.