Why Do All Superheroes Talk The Same?
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Have you noticed lately that all Superheroes seem to talk the same? Whether it's Marvel Studios or the DCEU each new iteration in their universe seems to have a very similar tone to how their heroes speak to each other. With quick snappy dialogue, tons of jokes, and seemingly personable characters both Marvel and DC have fallen into a formula that audiences are catching onto.
#superhero #marvel #nerdstalgic
Written by Dave Baker
Edited by Brian Nappi - Zábava
Name a superhero with a completely distinct way of talking...
Night Crawler
batman, hulk, thor, gambit, nightcrawler, deadpool, spiderman, homelander, blade., green lantern john stewart, green lantern hal jordan, yellow lantern hal jordan, green lantern guy gardner, red lantern guy gardner.........i could go on, but id literally be here all day naming almost every superhero/variation of said superhero ever.....
Bruce Wayne, Kamala Kahn, Polka Dot Man, Steve Rogers and...well...Homelander 😬
@@stapuft we need a good Green Lantern movie. 🙏
Magneto- but lol guess not a hero
"I don't know if you've ever been in a fight, but there's usually not this much talking." -- Sam Wilson perfectly summing up the MCU
Idk if youve ever read a comic book but thats usually how they tell the story
💯💯💯💯💯
@Jake R thats not what talking during a fight is at all. Its also not a bad thing. Comic books were limited in size, so the story is compressed. They basically tell stories the same way wrestling does (before the reality show part of it happened)
The mcu quippy formula was already wearing on me before Civil War came out and when Wilson said that I was thinking literally everyone in the movie is like that. Spiderman is the quippy guy but everyone else is doing it too.
wait until you watch an anime fight scene
Tony Stark will never die... Because every single Marvel Character talks exactly like him.
Right? Honestly, even Deadpool's MCU debut isn't gonna feel unique. Cause they've basically made almost all of their characters into what's basically a deadpool-lite versions. Even Spidey's quips don't feel special anymore. Cause almost everyone in the MCU is a quip machine now.
And several Star Wars ones too, in the newest trilogy! 🙄
@@averyeml yeah, thought the same thing. You can even see it in other franchises not owned by Disney. Its like an infection that's spreading.
No they don't. They try to, and fail.
No, he really died. What we have left mostly are just pale imitators of him.
This is a big reason why Logan was well recieved.
Too bad Logan didn't make much money as the average MCU films.
@@FRISHR wasnt too bad for me, I didnt actually make anything from the box office for Logan. Glad you did though and sorry you didnt make as much. 🤣
@@FRISHR It didn't cost nearly as much as an MCU film either, so I believe the execs were fine with that. Specially considering it was an R-rated film, targeted at a more mature audience.
@@viniciusmarcellino yea im pretty sure you have to budget for that with r rated films, which is why aside from Deadpool and Logan they don't spend allot on them, relatively (compared to other r rated films).
agreed
I seem to recall Honest Trailers claiming that Black Panther's one truly unique trait was being the only Marvel superhero to be played completely straight without having a quip-a-minute speech pattern. Not sure if everyone agrees on that, but that's where my mind went watching this video.
When he did joke it came off organic. Not like the patented MCU quip. Practically every word he saud carried weight while other MCU characters needed a lesson in brevity.
@@TheNativeEngine Ryan Coogler understood how a king should speak, and Chadwick Boseman understood how a king should act. That was a powerful combo.
Vision is also not a quipster, but yeah, it was rare.
Black panther's so generic I dont even remember watching to even though I did lmao
@@TheCowardRobertFord He was a bit quippy in Wandavision but that was because it was based on sitcoms and just a figment of her imagination.
This is what made The Batman so refreshing. How he spoke was completely different to everything else, and his humour was super dry. It was one of the things I really loved about that movie.
Yeah , the humor in the batman was pretty great it wasn't clowny, it was just natural and good and goes well with the dark tone
He also wasn’t a quipping machine like most MCU characters nowadays, which made him genuinely funny.
amen
Just him talking to Alfred in the daylight. He winces. Then puts on his sunglasses cause he prefers the dark. That's good acting and writing
"Thumb......drive."
This is exactly why Chadwick Boseman's T'Challa felt so refreshing to me; his character is cool-headed, brave, a natural leader, but never feels the need to quip a mile-a-minute. It immediately distinguished him from the Marvel leading actor lineup, and it really helps sell the dramatic moments further that the character can land with gravitas when he's supposed to, rather than be singularly comedic, regardless of whether or not the situation calls for that approach.
so regal
Hawkeye: "I don't think we've met before. I'm Clint."
Black Panther: "I don't care." (proceeds to fight)
😄
Iron Man really changed the superhero genre in so many ways
I really did. Same with Dark Knight
Yeah
@@mickeymouse7726 sell Marvel or I'll kill Minnie
Superhero Hero movie genre* 🤓
In so many bad ways
"I don't know what psychopath looked at the MCU and thought it needed more jokes" - Penguinz0
The MCU needs more seriousness
The forced comedy was a problem since day one but everybody praised it and now they are like nah is too comedic.
@@CabezasDePescado 💯💯👍
@@CabezasDePescado Facts it’s weird how NOW people are picking up on it
@@CabezasDePescado The comedy was steering on the line between great comedy and forced comedy. Now it's just fallen into a valley of terrible comedy. It's not really bad, it's just old.
I feel this is what made Black Panther stand out. T'challa wasn't quipy and he didn't need to be.
He was. Did you watch black panther at all?
@@seige8621 the only time he really joked was when he was talking to his sister and his close friends never on the job or during tense moments
"What are those!!!" Or his struggling to talk to cliche female romantic interest
Black panther didn't really have any distinct characterization he was the strong silent type. Blade is the strong silent type but every once in awhile he would have a funny outburst. Or the physical acting and expressions he used were funny sometimes as well when he was dealing with Whistler.
@@KaitouKaiju even on the job during the car scene, have you forgotten the movie?
Deadpool talks a bit different to be honest,he talks like Ryan Reynolds to be exact
I agree
It's a bit of a back and forth. Deadpool became Ryan and Ryan became Deadpool. Look up Ryan Reynolds work pre-Deadpool it's very different to his post-Deadpool work. Ever since that movie, they've become the same person
ok but Deadpool's character works in this type of stuff.
@@EthanRom he achieved Nirvana
@@Iliadic Just as long as "that type of stuff" is Looney Tunes. I think he would be better suited to Raimi's hyper, body horror comedy.
This is a trope I like to call "Everybody's Tony Stark". Traditionally you would only have one smartass character that likes to do sarcastic quips like Peter Venkman from Ghostbusters or Han Solo from Star Wars or Chandler from Friends. But today Dr. Strange talks like that, as well as Captain America, Thor, Hawkeye, Spider-Man, Loki, Ant-Man, Valkyrie, Captain Marvel, etc..
Captain America and Black Panther are serious though. If they quipped it was completely minimal.
@FateZero Yeah, I can really only remember Cap one-liners from the Whedon films. Under the Russos he was usually pretty serious.
Humor with superheroes was going on way before Iron Man. I remember in the original X Men movies characters cracked jokes and had banter with each other, especially Logan and Scott. The same goes for the Reimi Spiderman movies. But it never took away from each character having a distinct personality. In the MCU every character is trying to be Tony Stark.
Yeah. "Grow those back" from X-Men 3 always ends me🤣
"Do you know what happens to a toad when it's struck by lightning?"
@@commandercaptain4664 The same thing that happens to everything else
“When will these people learn how to fly.”
- Magneto, X Men 2
They don't feel like Tony Stark to me.
More like Spider-man I think.
It's about who it's appropriate for and when. It's also about *how* it's done. Bendis wrote people like actual humans, and that's really good for humanizing your characters. Some people like Stark, Spidey, Deadpool, etc need to be quippy, it's central to their character. But that doesn't mean them and everyone else has to make the same kind of jokes every 5 minutes. On the reverse, they don't need to be edgy 1 liner machines or constantly brooding like Snyder made them, they can still make the occasional comment that is appropriate for their character. I think the new batman, the new Superman, and Daredevil are good examples of new ways heroes can talk while being different
Yeah, making everybody quippy is boring when really a lot of heroes had their own personalities. It's like everybody is the same now
Snyder's 2nd film was about Batman. BATMAN? You know, the constantly brooding dark superhero with murdered parents, murdered adopted son and now lost employees in a world ending disaster? Even then Snyder nailed the signature humor between Alfred and Batman's banter.
For a film that deals with the fallout of a world-level disaster, the amount of humor was appropriate, considering not all characters aren't comedians. Meanwhile the first alien invasion in Marvel made the quipping problem worse.
I think a bigger problem is turning everyone into exposition bots. So much infodump, so few flushes.
Even in the quippy characters, their humor is different: Deadpool used to be a lot more mean-spirited and broke the fourth wall for comedic effect, Spiderman was more insecure and his humor showed it, Iron Man was just an actual asshole. But all three end up having the same kind of humor so they blend together. Spiderman being annoyed by Deadpool's humor is the pot calling the kettle black because everyone, Spiderman included, has the same humor now.
BENDIS? 😂😂😂
I remember in Age of Ultron when Maria Hill describes what Wanda and Pietro do to Cap, and he gives a confused puppy look and Maria goes “he’s fast and she’s weird”. My stomach soured. Cap is not that stupid, and idk why everyone sounded like they went to the Tony Stark school of sarcasm.
She described their powers down to their freaking chemical reactions in their bodies. Cap isn’t stupid but he’s not a biologist either, he’s not gonna understand every single scientific word since that’s not his area of expertise. Same thing with you and me
I get that but the dialogue doesn’t ring true, well not to me at least.
And to elaborate I simply find the “fast and weird” line to just be cringey and awful in general.
Joss Whedon writing, everyone has the same "voice" and the lines could have been said by any of them.
@@HoustonSoto especially since it only tells useful things about *one* of the 2, so it's halfway useless
Now a days to be a superhero and protagonist in a fantasy movie, you have to be snarky, witty, and funny. Growing up I thought those were normal traits in all main characters but I realized it was only a stereotype recently. Frodo didint make jokes, nor did Harry Potter (movie version at least).
Well, DC just took too much of a microwave mentality when it comes to their characters. Should have done the origin stories of each of the characters as Marvel did, and lined them up accordingly. Even though origin stories have been done to death, it's still a requirement, still patently necessary. Also, DC is more political in nature than Marvel, so take a more political thriller style and apply that to your characters. Make Batman a tale about what billionaires should be doing with their money. Make Superman a tale about what people should do with their skills. Make Wonder Woman about genuinely strong women, not feminazi man-haters. One size does not fit all.
I know he’s not a superhero but many characters played by Keanu Reeves talked straight. Take in Speed he doesn’t make jokes like John McClaine. Or in The Matrix he doesn’t even smile!
@@shanekeenaNYC they probably should have made their movies entertaining too. MCU movies might not be good, but they’re not so bad that you want to turn them off within 20 minutes. Snyder’s movies? Yikes.
@@harrylane4 The MCU was good through the first three phases. These last movies and shows they've been doing have been totally without direction, completely baseless. The MCU has totally lost its grounding force. As for the DC universe, it needs to be actually, properly entertaining. They just did an MCU remix. Do something different, something unique.
Harry’s jokes in the books were pretty savage ngl
Your channel is so random but nothing ever feels out of place. You can talk about a good comedy and a serious horror back to back and it won't feel out of place. I love your channel. Keep up the great work!
This means a lot! Thank you
@@Nerdstalgic you're epic bro!!
@@Nerdstalgic Maybe they sound the same because they're all WHITE
It would be great to highlight to movies that standout. I'm fine with some humor as long as it's a bit unique. Sam Raimi, James Gunn, Shane Black and Taika Waititi can be divisive depending on who you ask, but their eye for comedy and tone feels very specific to them.
The problem is when the so called "comedy" takes over everything like a mantle of cringe not caring about tone and characters. Doctor Strange, Iron Man 3, waititi idiotic Thor, Endgame, the list goes on and on. Is not about the style, is about good storytelling.
@@CabezasDePescado I half agree. Thor 4 shouldn’t have been written by taika, he was good at directing ragnarok, but he’s no writer
@@cantthinkofaname5046 he's a better writer than he's a director. most of his works prove that. even in love and thunder, his writing is garbage but still not terrible as the direction
@@CabezasDePescado Comedy isn't just a style either, it could be a part of storytelling. Recent MCU def overused comedy to the point that it messes the storytelling.
@@cantthinkofaname5046 Taika is usually a better writer. I think Disney's ecosystem got the better of him.
Sam Raimis Spider-Man did the best job with making the movie serious and intense but every now and they threw in funny moments that didn’t feel forced or unnecessary.
True, same with the Xmen movies where humor didn't feel like a huge focus. It allowed them to really push into serious tones at times
As much as Bendis really started annoying me later in his career...the fresh feeling he brought to comics in the early 2000's can't be understated. It brought me back into comics.
Same. His run on Ultimate Spiderman made me fall in love with comics again.
I think this is why I don't care about superhero movies, but when I gave a chance to the Marvel series on Netflix, I love it. Jessica Jones ain't cracking jokes, she's just kicking ass and trying to deal with her fucked up life.
Yes. I love the Netflix shows. They were more grounded for one but also everyone was unique and humorous in there own way.
Sad they ended.
And daredevil was dark and gritty throughout
this is kind of how i feel, like you watch one or 2 and your like yea that's petty fun, but when its every movie and every story is the same you just loose interest. i kind of like Taika injecting his more pentaamine humour into thor ragnarock cos at least it felt different, then their was also infinity war which actually had some serious moments, though i think theirs just an issue with marvel dialog in general, notably how nearly everyone sounds like they have the mental age of a teenager, all i imagine is if they spoke like that in real life in a war situation people would just tell them to be quiet.
Stopped to bring up the lamest super hero on earth 😂😂👎🏽👎🏽
Nothing wrong for certain characters to crack jokes.
Bendis is a perfect example of what happens when a non-artist decides who does art and for what. Bendis’ writing style is perfect for characters like Spider-Man and Daredevil. Its not good for Wolverine and Thor. A writer would understand that different writers have different styles of writing, and they wouldnt tell Bendis to write characters that do NOT suit is writing style. I feel bad for the dude, he gets heat for what ultimately is not his fault. W video as usual!
Yet Bendis was directly involved in that Naomi show which flopped on the CW. Then he made Ironheart and Miles Morales which honestly still have problems because his writing style doesn't work with everything,
No bendis is an active participant in the hate. He pokes and prods and actively just puts more nonsensical walls of text in his recent comics like some sort of an FU to his haters and readers
Bendis ruined Superman and Miles bruh
@@KingShibe ??? Bendis literally created miles
@@harrylane4 yeah and miles was shit until relatively recently. The first couple of years miles was the most bland hero out there because he was just a carbon copy of Peter. He only got better because a different writer took over
Its because everyone who makes movies saw one succeed and all decided they should leave originality behind and copy all the others
The first Iron Man: *Is a good movie*
Everyone Else: COPY THAT!
Copy & paste Copy & paste Copy & paste Copy & paste Copy & paste Copy & paste
-MCU
@@MyActualThoughts please explain to me how guardians of the galaxy is a copy of iron man 1
Being quipped isn’t bad. It’s when everyone is quipped and the same kind of quipped that gets bad
I think Chadwick Boseman's Black Panther had a very unique sounding voice and speech when compared to the rest of the Avengers. Pretty refreshing
It wasn't as bad at first, then every character sounded exactly the same. I wish they would've had Moon Knight be more like the Daredevil series, more brutal and serious, with very few jokes.
Like he was in the comics?
I enjoyed that line about weaponizing a popular portrayal for profit. It's unfortunate but accurate. As far as the MCU goes, I actually kinda miss the more serious and semi-Shakespearean Thor myself. Thank you for the video.
Stay well out there everybody, and God bless you, friends. ✝️ :)
So do I! For an ancient God from another world his pseudo-medieval speech patterns and behaviour makes sense.
Kenneth Brannagh nailed it!
I just recently rewatched the MCU and I didn't realize how much I missed the feel of the 1st Thor movie.
This video reminded me of the forgotten superhero movie Jumper. That movie didn’t have a joke a minute or forced comedy, actually has some emotional moments and great acting as usual from Sam Jackson! It’s a shame that franchise never continued
+
They made a TV series of Jumper. Also forgotten
It was great seeing Mace Windu vicariously get his revenge on Anakin.
@S Niter I still hope for a team movie of superheroes created exclusively from other movies to be in one film: Hancock, G-Girl, Meteor Man, Darkman, Jumper, Push, Scanners, Defendor, the Crimson Bolt, Psycho Goreman, Starkid, and Tetsuo the Iron Man.
And they all face off against Brightburn, Lucy, and Chronicle.
@@Uratz not even close to the movie that thing
I kept waiting for snarky humor in The Batman and found it very refreshing when the humor came differently and most things were taken seriously. Thanks for the video!
My main issue with dialogue-based humour is when it makes every character sound like a stand-up comedian. It gets old really quickly, and after a while you don't see the characters on screen, you just see a bunch of actors doing improv comedy. And I get why they do it. When a superhero always has the best comeback lines, it's just an easy way to make him look witty and therefore more alpha.
Comedy in movies and series feels more natural when it humanizes the characters. When I think of Fawlty Towers, The Pink Panther or a more recent movie: Everything, Everywhere All at Once... the jokes are not there to elevate the protagonist as a cool person. Many jokes are rather at their own expense. But in many ways it makes the characters more relatable.
FINALLY, someone else has noticed this.
I used to really enjoy the banter here and there early on, but I always felt it was specifically IRON MAN's thing. When it got to the point where I actually stopped to think about the dialogue, I started to feel like some scenes were written childishly or with needless humor that took away from the moment of sincerity. A witty joke made in light of a bad situation once in a while is natural, that's how a lot of us cope with adversity. But in every single moment like with Guardians of the Galaxy? I can't take anyone seriously for a single moment and it stops being funny. I really hope the comic movie industries go back to taking their characters seriously and giving them back their identities instead of Iron Man's.
the over reliance on humor is definitely an issue but I absolutely loathe on how alot of modern superhero stuff or even other media just has this incredibly obnoxious and annoying self-aware/self deprecating sense of humor. Characters have to be snarky and laugh at the "silliness" of the source material are joke about a certain situation as if they don't care. Having a movie that touches on an aspect of Batman's age and how he can't keep doing this forever. You'd think that they'll maybe let him see his own body bleed and come to the realisation that he needs to and let the viewers stay with the character in the moment to soak in as much genuine emotion as possible but nope! Something's definitely bleeding! It just robs sincerity and genuine human emotion. And it's also very prevalent in mcu thanks to joss shitbag whedon.
👍💯. Nailed it
Not to sound defensive of Whedon, since I'm critical of his work to some extent too and also cause he IS a pretentious shitbag, but his formula worked for a time.
It should be noted that despite the quip, Batman actually bled, unlike in the Snyder Cut. And let's face it, JL is hardly a passion project for Whedon.
The problem with the snarks and self awareness of today's superhero stuffs is they ring hollow. They just wanna sound clever without actually being.
Also, look at some of Whedon's action, like the 360⁰ shot in A1. It's silly, ridiculous but not it's not asking you to laugh at it, is it?
It’s like a defense mechanism “you can’t make fun of this, we already did!” I genuinely believe youtube parody videos like cinema sins and honest trailers have had impact and promoted this phenomenon
@@TheSuperNats I like your thoughts. And if it IS true that these studios catch wind of cinema sins and honest trailers, and allow that to affect how they make films, they need to understand that anything can be objectively made fun of. And that’s okay.
Just keep striving to do better and maybe not pay too much attention to what other self aware-charged content creators comment about them.
I think the real turnaround was Thor: Ragnarok. Whedon gets a lot of crap for his characters supposedly all sounding the same but in Avengers, Thor still feels and talks like a Shakespearean character, which is what Kenneth Branaugh was doing and what Stan Lee was doing before them. It's Waititi who unleashed the comedy, and in a movie about the Viking Apocalypse, no less. Whether you like the film or not, the math isn't really complicated: if you turn one of your serious characters into a funny one, it makes your characters less serious as a group.
And the MCU has another problem: the crossovers. The fact that the Marvel movies feels less like multiple franchises and more like one big one means that every character has to fit a certain tone eventually, even if it doesn't necessarily makes sense for them. Am I the only one who thinks Wong barely feels like the same character in She-Hulk? I'm scared to see Daredevil appear in the show now.
I think it was Gaurdians of the Galaxy. The subject matter the team itself was so silly that they felt they had to be extremely humorous and when that was so successful they completely changed Thor
@@TheSuperNats The success of Guardians did not force Marvel to do anything. The Thor franchise could have remained its own thing without feeling the need to copy, like every great franchise does.
Damn, this is so on the nose with the new episode
The first Iron Man 2008 is still awesome
It's still my favorite MCU film.
@@CosmicPhilosopher 💯👍
Iron Man
The Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
Infinity War
these are the S level of MCU for me
things like Winter Soldier, Civil War, Homecoming and Ragnarok come under A
good times... people, when we were on Phase Three(few duds after IW -- like Ant Man & the Wasp and Captain Marvel) but nothing miss upto Infinity War starting from Civil War.
@@daredevil6145 It knock Guardians off there and put the Cap trilogy up instead.
I really LOVE the Justice league animated series' dialogues. Rewatching the series is absolutely timeless. (RIP Kevin Conroy 💔)
Man I really love your content you are one of the few creators that really work hard on their videos and it shows in these videos❤️❤️
Appreciate this - thank you!
Agree about Avengers 1 & 2. It's the Joss Whedon problem, where every character sounds like Joss.
Disagree on Infinity War which I felt did a good job highlighting all their different personalities, even having James Gunn write for the Guardians scenes.
👍💯💯💯
“That man is playing Galaga. Thought we wouldn’t notice but we did.”
- Tony Stark
Avengers had a bit too much jokes but overall the balance in tone was fine. Of course, people blindly praised that so in Age of Ultron the comedy and tone is all over the place. Infinity War had several really stupid moments but overall the tone was fine again and Endgame is downright impossiblr to take seriously because of bad writing and the forced comedy was pretty bad too. But yeah everybody is a one liner clown.
@An Outsider. it fucking sucks, the first scene is cool and the concept is great but the tone is all wrong, Thor is not supposed to be a dumbass clown and waititi is not fit for the caracter, the more the mcu goes on the more they appeal to casual audiences and less to actual Marvel fans
I thought Avengers had pretty good difference in character dialogue, Tony was clearly the quippy jokester of the group while others like Cap and Hulk were a lot more serious. Age of Ultron is where it started to go downhill imo
Doom Patrol is by far the best thing to come out of DC. It’s funny when it can to be, but also serious when it needs to be an yet all the characters speak in a unique way.
Yeah doom patrol is fantastic
I fucking adore that show. Can't wait for Season 4 with Casey Brinke.
Not just dc, honestly some of the best comic book live action media in recent years
so underrated imo
This is why I love The Batman. You're not bombarded with jokes every 10 seconds. Except from Penguin, which felt more genuine than what MCU gives us.
Penguin felt fresh because you went for so long without a quippy guy, then suddenly he's there, cracking jokes and pointing out silly things in a way that feels natural to his character.
frong
It’s the same snarky way of talking in all the same movies.
It happens when you have a team of comic book writers collaborating, but even more so when Joss, Shane Black, Raimi or Taika take the reigns. Regardless of how you feel about them as creators, you can tell when they've written for a character.
Though I liked the tone in Winter Soldier a lot.
Seriously at this point it’s so tired. Every character can’t be the snarky one
@@DeathnoteBB That's why I think The Batman is a breathe of fresh air.
Yes, I watched the video too
I really have been loving your content ever since I discovered your channel a couple weeks ago! The topics you choose to cover are always so fascinating, informative whilst being entertaining and overall a really cohesive channel. Been LOVING the perfect/worst episode series, and the why this did/didn't work videos too.
Appreciate this!! Thank you.
Iron Man wasn't heavily improvised, the script is online with the writers' names and the dialogue is 99% the same. You even have footage of RDJ on set reading his lines off the script.
Some actors and directors claim everything is improvised to take credit for when things work, but it's PR. You can always just see that these scripts are carefully put together long in advance and the performances are made to feel improvisational during shooting wjth a couple lines swapped to mix things up.
The reason the dialogue all sounds the same is because the writers are usually instructed to write the same by the producers so everything fits together across films.
They didn’t enter production with a completed script. That’s why you can find deleted scenes with entirely different storylines and beats that play out very differently. It’s why Jeff Bridges said he had to think of it as a $100M student film to figure out what needed to be done. The movie generally had no right turning out this good.
Favreau should've directed The Avengers
@@stellviahohenheim There was rumored strife between Favreau and Feige, which led to the mixed result of Iron Man 2.
@@commandercaptain4664
Feige wasn't running things when Iron Man 2 was made. Ike Perlmutter was. And good riddance of that dead weight.
this might be why black panther was so good because killmonger and tchala didn’t quip even when they were quipped at
Yes agreed, if the climax and Cgi was better it would’ve been my favorite standalone MCU movie without question.
The genre is not going away but it certainly needs to be refreshed.
I don't grant your premise. Tony Stark's wisecracking is very different from Captain America's earnest directness, and both sound very different from Thor's stilted Shakespearean syntax. Jessica Jones speaks with crass rudeness while Peggy Carter speaks like a high-born lady, Doctor Strange is unapologetically condescending while Peter Parker is deferential and polite, Rocket Racoon is a wise-guy while Drax is awkwardly formal, and Groot is... well, you know.
The movies all have humor, sure, but it's just untrue to say that the characters all speak with the same voice.
I want an indian batman trying to interrogate the chinese joker
😂👍
Hello joker I'm under the watah please help
Indian Batman would Just try to kill him coz he's Chinese
Covert to halal, joker
Thanks for the video, a lot of videos only talk about the movies without bringing up the influence that writers like Bendis had on the way this movies are written, so this one was pretty refreshing.
FINALLY SOMEONE ASKS THIS QUESTION
Great episode. It’s excellent content that’s well-researched and has a thoughtful conclusion. Excellent!
I think Shazam was DC best attempt to capture that MCU style, mainly because Shazam has always lean more on the light hearted side
Nothing like demons eating and ripping apart people in an office behind glass as lighthearted lol
@@ericmay560 maybe lighthearted wasn't the right word, but I still stand by my statement😅
I think the reason the humour in Shazam works is because Billy Batson is a kid, and still acts as such when he's Shazam, so the MCU-ish comedy with him makes more sense since the dialogue is very literally coming out of a manchild.
Yeah but thats because Shazam, Flash and Green latern ( depends which one)
Are the jokers of the justice league. Thats their place. The others are all much more serious. If it went the way of the MCU all heroes would act like Shazam.
I don't mind quips as long as the character making the quips is a character who would quip. Spiderman and Ironman, for example, are characters who love to quip so it makes sense. Other characters who are serious or straight laced like Wolverine and Batman generally shouldn't quip as it would undermine the tone of the character. Doesn't mean they can't quip at all, Batman The Animated Series and Justice League Unlimited has a couple of places where Batman cracks a joke and it works, but it has to be used sparingly and appropriately. For example in the previously mentioned shows, Batman cracks to a joke to the Flash. The humour comes the joke itself and the Flash reacting to the fact that Batman cracked a joke at all. The unlikelihood of Batman doing it made it a good joke and it happens infrequently enough for it to land.
And you've now described what drags that Harley Quinn cartoon down a lot of the time(especially early on): jokes being made when and where they don't need to be due to the jokes being made rapidfire.
Everything becomes too samey and the jokes stop lose a lot of their impact
@@InfernosReaper Almost worth it just to hear Joker chew Bruce out over electric cars not being good yet.
Gotta love Gambino in Homecoming
Legit, I hope he returns as Prowler in an upcoming movie. He loves Marvel and Spider-man. He's also one of many awesome Community cameos in the MCU.
Donald is damn near perfect as a adult Spiderman miles and prowler. But I'm ready to see him come back as the prowler.
And he voiced Miles in the Ultimate Spider-Man TV series
You brought up how DC’s first few films were in direct opposition to Marvel, and how Josstice League didn’t work out for them, but failed to mention how the Snyder Cut brought it back to the super serious and stylized tone and was praised by critics and audiences
JL failed primarily because it randomly tried to switch the tone. And because they didn't world build in seperate films before throwing all the heroes together.
Meh Snyder Cut wasn't that much better. It turned an awful film into a boring average film.
@@One.Zero.One101 That’s definitely your opinion.
This reminds me of how the loud, hyperactive, friendly and borderline stupid yet resilient character became the archetype of the shonen genre for Japanese entertainment in the 2000s. Each time a main character was NOT the archetype, it was a fresh air, and since the industry is larger each year both in demand and offer, there's plenty of characters that fit and don't fit those archetypes. But with how money consumming and exclusive it is to make a superhero movie, it is extremely difficult to find the diversity of script.
Shang Chi was a slight deviation. They had Awkwafina deliver the quippy comic relief but for the most part every other main character was sincere and distinct (especially the villain). It struck a good balance.
The thing that really bugs me is that there are so many different styles of humor that could be utilized for superheroes but they just keep using the same quippy style over and over again
That really annoys me too. There are other forms of comedy aside from sarcastic quips. There's cringe comedy like The Office, situational comedy like Back to the Future, slapstick comedy like Space Balls, irreverent comedy like Monty Python, there's parody like Austin Powers, observational comedy like Curb Your Enthusiasm. Every movie now is relying on sarcastic quips, even the Predator reboot. Dear writers there are other forms of comedy!
@@One.Zero.One101 and when it's all the *same* comedy, the character start ceasing to matter, because they start becoming interchangeable
it's worse in comics because a lot of the fights are also starting to get kinda samey
@@InfernosReaper Fights in comics tend to be the same because they're filled with reams of dialogue during the fights and each panel contains multiple actions portrayed simultaneously, thus eliminating action and reaction. Is it a wonder why most people don't read them? Even for a static visual medium, that ain't cinematic.
@@commandercaptain4664 I meant more in terms of actions done by the characters, though the samey dialogue is also a problem there as well
I feel like this is something a bunch of movies do so as to match up with the MCU since everyone likes it. That's part of the reason why movies like Logan and the Batman are loved because of the different tone of dialogue in the movies
Neh. There have always been movies that try to shove humor into serious action (Ahnuld for example). The MCU just made it obviously cliche.
@@commandercaptain4664 True
This is why I love The Boys so much. Billy Butcher in the show is like the anti Marvel hero. He's straight up down to business with as little BS as possible.
To be honest, he's actually Ultraman from DC's the Crime Syndicate. It's basically the evil version of the Justice League.
@@solaceboy Are we talking about Comic Butcher or Show Butcher?
Not just Billy either, the entire cast does an awesome job of balancing their personalities. They even managed to make Black Noir not only likeable but perhaps the nicest dude out of the bunch without him speaking a single word.
Billy is also sarcastic similar to Nick Fury but with a cockney accent
@@claytonrios1 no one is ever talking about comic Butcher in a complimentary way
Definitely a case of "too much of a good thing". Iron Man was so good because RDJ was literally a living Tony Stark. There were some very serious & dark moments in Iron Man but when the time was right Tony would be Tony and make us laugh.
would love to see how this vid came about, great work
That's why I liked the Chris Nolan Batman
There was very little humour and he acted like somone who was just trying to protect what he felt needing protecting without having to crack jokes every 10 seconds and a sly "did you get it? hmmmmm?" wink to the audience
Taking notes Taika? hmmmmm? 😉
I think Michael Keaton had funny moments as Bruce Wayne in the first Batman.
You can't describe Spider-Man as the fun, quippy, hyperactive superhero when the rest of them all do the same thing
Whenever I think of the MCU these days, one quote always comes to mind... "You Either Die A Hero Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain."
Probably why The Boys and Invincible were so well received.
They take their material very seriously.
I mean, no? The Boys radically changed the tone and motivation of practically everything in comparison to the comic, to great effect I may add, while Invincible did the same, just to a lesser extent (and totally ruined Mark's girlfriend along the way). I'd say they're both faithful adaptations of the good parts of their respective comics, but the showrunners, for the most part, knew where they could tweak things to add some extra punch.
@@roguebarbarian9133 ignore these people, they simply write what they've seen on twitter without actually coming to the conclusion themselves
Such insightful stuff! Loved it.
Easily one of the best channels on YT
I love superheroes, they are so cool
We don't know how to make good movies with a serious tone, so no one is allowed to make movies in a serious tone.
Cause, you know, the issue has to be the tone, not the incompetence of our leadership.
I stubbled upon your channel about a year ago and want to say thanks for all of the great content. When it comes to analyzing the zeitgeist of pop culture both past and present, you've got your finger on the pulse. Thanks for another great analysis, look forward to the next one.
7:27 encompasses it all...reasons why these film adaptations have been so frustrating! GREAT video
Finally, someone acknowledges this.
I feel like this is part of the reason why the Guardians of the Galaxy work so well. They all have different ways of talking in the first movie. Sure, they are all somewhat snarky, but there's still enough there to separate them.
As someone who doesn't have a large knowledge of the comics or their writers, this was a fascinating look at how both the written and filmed mediums share parallels in both positive and negative ways.
At the root, it's one guy having a bunch of conversations with himself
This is why I was shocked at how positively received Doctor Strange was, when despite the issues with the movie/lead character, Captain Marvel as a protagonist was at least a breath of fresh air at the time.
Iron man was a success they tried to recreate without realizing it was a success due to Robert and due to the character himself
Him, Spidey, Deadpool and to some extent Fury are meant to be quippy but characters like Hulk, Captain America or Black widow really aren’t and their personality got lost in time as they started cracking more and more jokes
Also, even the quippy characters should have their own, unique humor, Moon knight’s humor is based off of suddenly changing personality and saying random stuff similarly to Deadpool; Deadpool is more absurd and follows a cartoonish logic; Iron man gives quick one-liners all the time and Spiderman taunts the ones he’s fighting
Also this could play with serious characters meeting quippy characters, imagine Inifinity War Strange meeting Deadpool and asking him a lot about his powers and stuff or questioning him about breaking the fourth wall only for deadpool tp be like “dude, you asking ME this? You literally have unexplained and potentially deus-ex-machina magic”
Ya kinda reminded me of this one scene in the comics where Deadpool, Spider-man, and Daredevil teamed. After a few panels of banter between Deadpool and Spider-man, Daredevil gave up on the teamup
Hey Nerdstalgic! I'm very curious to know more about yiddish words in Marvel comics. Couldn't find a source online, and didn't find any yiddish words in the panels you showed. Can you give me a reference?
My brain is going to Red Hood being ambushed and shouting "goodness gracious iv been bamboozled"
Jeeze Joss Whedon. Talk about a fall from grace...
Excellent topic and one i'm sorta tired in especially the MCU just feeling broken for me
Agreed. The MCU is kinda at a point where I’m like, “I’ll watch it.”
@@chasehedges6775 feels more like homework than actual investment
@@Joecbg100 it really does
"Let's get nuts" scene was funny
Great video.
You are giving Bendis WAYYYYYY too much credit.
Keith Giffen and J. M. DeMatteis gave us Justice League International in 1987 and THAT was the original
Yes, but Bendis is the one that had that style take off
Giffen and DeMatteis did write more lighthearted versions of their characters, but those characters still had distinct voices.
“Brian Bendis made these characters feel human”
Ok ya lost me. Brian Bendis does a lot of things and making his characters sound or feel human is not one of them.
Bendis's writing sucks balls tbh
Yup
Bendis imo is only good in street level characters and sucks at everything else. I give Bendis credit for modernizing Spider-Man for the 21st century.
YES! Well said!
All of this evolution already occurred in the comic books in the 20th century, not the 21st. Marvel's reboot of the Timely comics heroes starting in 1960 featured sardonic, wise-cracking superheroes. This distinguished them from the DC comic heroes ( Batman, Superman, etc.). Any kid reading comics in the 1960s and 1970s knows this.
Spider Man in particular was the most wise-cracking-ist of them all. This humor ( especially when fighting super-villains ) helped him therapeutically deal with his unhappy life as Peter Parker.
I think sincerity comes back. It will be a sincere->cynical cycle for as long as the genre survives. If they made a good Justice League movie that had a likable wholesome Flash, a fierce Wonder Woman, and the respectful relationship between Batman & Superman that the DCAU had, I think it would be a smash hit.
Superhero movies do run the risk of going the way of the Spaghetti Westerns of old. One thing they have that westerns don't, though, is the opportunity for genre diversity. Y'know, using the characters and universe to tell the different kinds of stories. Captain America 1 and 2 were a war movie and spy thriller, the Ant-Man movies are sci-fi spy/heist movies, and the GotG movies are space soap operas. If they become allowed to add more dialogue diversity (believable and interesting, pre-Ragnarok Thor was an unbelievably boring individual), they may be able to just become part of the market.
Psycho Colonel Sanders was the best line in Moon Knight.
and when everyone is snappy,
no one will be...
I don´t know if the super hero movie genre is in trouble, but I do know that this video explains one of the many reason why a lot of people like me is getting tired of the genre.
What do you think about The Boys? Homelander rarely makes jokes, mostly they are thinly veiled threats. I loved that each of the characters in that show feel like real people, but how do you feel about it?
In many comedy skits, there's a straight man and a funny men. There's no need for everyone to be the kooky guy, funny things can come from serious people
Secret Invasion feels pretty serious. Mayb this would change the dialouge style a little. Atleast for the MCU.
I disagree that DC made Superman dark to contrast with MCU. I think they made superman dark because Batman movies have a history of success, and they are dark. You also have to remember in the early days of MCU it's wasn't all jokes. Thor, captain America and Iron man all had some pretty serious solo films.
I don't think the problem is over saturation of humour in comic adaptations. I think the problem is failing to understand that each hero is effectively a different genre of superhero. Shazam had to be light-hearted because Shazam is about an aspirational goofy child. Superman movies need to be hopeful and reflective on what it is to be human.. Both characters aren't dark but I wouldn't expect a shazam movie to be like a superman movie .
Title: Why Do All Superheroes Talk The Same?
Me: The short answer is because modern cinema (and especially Marvel) lacks any sort of creativity or imagination.
Teen Titans and Justice League/Justice League Unlimited did humor well, by having comedic types play off of straitlaced types. In Teen Titans, Beast Boy, Starfire and Cyborg played the role of comedic characters while Robin, Raven and Cyborg played the role of straitlaced characters (Cyborg played both roles).
In Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, Flash was the comedic guy, and he mostly played off of John Stewart.
The writers for those shows knew how to write character interactions. Along with that, the writers didn’t allow humor to intrude on tense or dramatic scenes.
Taking all of that together allowed those shows to be dramatic and funny without creating any tonal clash.
Syndrome: When every Super is a Wisecracking Quipster, No One Will Be . . .
Iron Man's writing and its success has been a negative consequence for Cinema
Indeed. It was a good movie but it planted the seeds of what everything is now
facts, cinema and the industry would be in a far better state if Speed Racer instead made bank and Ironman flopped smfh
@@nalday2534 If Iron Man 1 or Speed Racer had flopped, society would just have gone on looking for the next big thing.
Hollywood in general has learned all the wrong lessons from the MCU
@@CrowTRobot there were no right lessons to learn from it either