Thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough job explaining this for us! I will be doing my first porcelain 12x24 tile on concrete here soon and this has helped me understand how to do it RIGHT. 😊
Very helpful, great demos and detailed explanations thanks. You've probably saved me a small fortune in ripout and starting again with my kitchen floor! 👍
Two major mistakes one is large tile format tile is supposed to be used with half-inch trowel remember the bigger the tile the larger the notches and when you back butter keep them all in the same direction you're defeating the purpose by running them in two different directions
7:30 that is more than 95% coverage he did not make any mistakes, and if he did that just on the substrate with no back trowel then yes he would need a half inch
lovely demo. fitting tiles like that and getting that full bond is physically harder work too when compared against tiles in which the adhesive notches aren't collapsed. much respect. (I found this from your comment on the "Fix it all" channel today. Doubt he achieved fully coverage with his teeny tiny notched trowel and no back buttering. lol)
The other issue was dabbing thin set in spots where its lower. Look, to be honest, trowling in one direction and to the shortest escape route for a tile like you said is important but buttering back of tile is non essential unless that floor is going to be a national traffic thoroughfare!
I'm a tile setter and yes its good to back butter for sure if the tile gets wet but if you put enough mud on the floor and use the right trial you shouldn't need to back butter every single tile. Another thing if you have a 2-3000 square foot house to tile there ain't no way you are going to back butter every one
You back butter every tile no exceptions, the size of the floor doesn’t dictate whether or not you back butter and do it the proper way. I set 8,400 sf of limestone about a year ago and back buttered every last one of them.
Jason, You've explained this really well good job. I just watched your video and leveling tile floors that's a big help. First time to see how to level a floor and keep it level I look forward to hear from you God bless you bye for now Ken
Well the only thing i don't agree is that hen you put the thinset on the floor and also on the back of the tile the lines from the trowel suppose to go in the same way, normally taking the small side of the tile....
Thank you so much for the information! You make it look so easy. I am a DYI and I am laying 10x47 plank porcelain. I use the wedges to help with the lipping, but fight the bow of the tiles when I check them with 4' level. I may be trying for to perfect?? Tips or pointers? I'm going to check out all your videos. Thanks again!
This guy's a MONSTER!!! He gave up so many trade secrets --- I ran outta sticky notes tryin' to jot 'em all down!!! ; ) Excellent vid, sir, thank you!!
All of your videos are so helpful do you have one on tile patterns and what direction to lay tile? We will be laying the larger plank tiles such as the ones in this video. We will be laying tile in an open living room / kitchen area that will also lead into a hallway. The front door opens directly into the living room area no foyer or anything like that, then it will lead straight through to the kitchen but it will have a hallway to the left not sure what direction to lay it so the hallway looks right...
My husband has a how to channel and he's taught himself how to tile but he's looking for more information on laying floor tile in a chopped up bathroom floor he'll be contacting you thank you for sharing good information
@@Apexjasonmorganllc hi this is smell a Vsion, Husband, question is my bathroom floors chopped up with the cabinet locked in shower and the doorway and I've got two separate dimension bring up with Kyle's different sizes on the opposite ends of the room in order to balance it out up against the wall and I don't see any videos here on CZcams explaining the best way to do that except for I've come to the conclusion I need to do an offset pattern and find right spacing in the offset the balance it out so that, the offsets don't jump out at you. I also have a CZcams channel it's a how to channel, I have videos on how to tile a shower I know nothing about tiling floors I am self taught. but tiling floors is a whole nother animal a bathroom showers pretty straightforward although difficult. But I've never really laid in the floor tile until presently trying to figure it out. My channel name is easy to tips and tricks Etc, my phone's charging presently I'll come back with the comment. I look forward to hear from you.. don't mean to be so long-winded thanks for getting back to me PS did you know if you upload one video a week every week CZcams after about a month-and-a-half will start recommending your channel here on CZcams?
@@Apexjasonmorganllc how's it going Jason, this is my home improvement how to channel. I'm stuck I'm trying to figure this floor layout out but I really don't have the experience really so I'm in that curve you know you're able to help me out with some pointers that would be great did you know about CZcams promoting your videos? One video a week every week from they will. If you have any questions ? bye for now. God bless, Ken
Jason, this is Ken I'm using ceramic tile with maip thinset but my floor is really offset I have my door opening and about a 2 and 1/2 foot wide cabinet and then my walk in shower is about 5 feet so it runs past the cabinet by about three feet or so my bathroom makes a L shape tile a. Floor the layouts totally different from a shower Denise has to be all chopped up I could send you a link to a video where you could see the layout of the bathroom that might give you a better idea of what I'm talking about and I say it's chopped up
Big favor to ask. I am going to install tile in my living room and kitchen. My home had 12" vinyl glued down under the carpet throughout. Once removed I have the glue swirls. Can I just paint on MAPEI MAPELASTIC AQUA DEFENSE barrier then tile without removing the glue.
I’m a diy er. How do you stop the mortar from coming out of the grout lines? It becomes such a mess for me. I’m setting 12x24 and it just spews out using 1/2 trowel. Thanks. Nice vid btw.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Thanks for the quick reply!! I’m actually doing shower wallsand the tiles are running vertical. I’m pretty frustrated with the amount of thin set popping out of the joints. Would you use that trowel size on walls? Thanks
@@Sectionmillionaire-fg8mm I would use a3/8 notch and apply that notch to the wall and also notch the back of the tile. That will give you enough play to avoid lips but should cut down on the mud squeezing out. Also make sure your thinset is a good consistency. One trick is when you place the tile butt the edge of the tile your placing tight to the other tiles and push it into the mortar before you open it up to create your grout joint. That will help with ooze as it will pull the mortar away from your joint. There’s going to be time when you will get some mud coming out, you just have to clean it with a sponge the best you can and scratch it out with a razor knife once the mud is set. I’ll set one day then the following morning before I start seeing I’ll wash and clean what I set the previous day as it’s easier to clean before the mortar gets super hard.
I know this is an old video, but you mention most long plank tile like this come bowed from the factory. Doesn't it naturally pull up into the bow as it sets also causing lippage? I started using levelling clips and thirds as soon as tile started going 1' x 2' and I assume the effect would be worse with long plank tiles like these. You put the level on each end, but not in the middle.. But you clearly know what you are doing. Not using clips would make me much faster. How do you avoid lippage from the bow without leveling clips?
These tiles were fairly flat with a slight bow. We kept the joints random so not doing a half stagger helped with lips. It really depends on the tile you’re working with. I do use clips when I need to but not on every tile.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Okay, that makes sense. If you don't mind a follow up. What is your tolerance for whether to use clips or not? I typically don't use clips on walls, or at least not as many, with higher quality flat tiles. But haven't even tried a floor without tons of clips for quite a few years. Maybe I'm worrying needlessly..
@@markoshun I’ll use clips if the stagger is a 50/50. Or if the tile has a noticeable crown. These days the clips and wedge quality it way better so I use clips a little more often. If it’s natural stone I do not use clips. You just have to the best judgement call for each tile your setting.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Ok, got it. Thanks so much. I have come to automatically use them. Just threw me seeing a pro tile setter not using them. I do general renoes, so not tile all the time. I used a Mexican hand-made tile on a shower surround once and even had to throw out the spacers.. was fun. I've got some slate to set on this job coming up, so probably no clips on those. Will check out more of your videos. Thanks
I am so worried on how they are going to do our tile, floor and decor contractors are going to do ours, wood tile but I dont want any grout lines visible, any reviews or exp with floor n decor contractors??pl let me know
Still need a lippage system, making the substrate flat before install goes without saying. But i dont care how flat you make the substrate, only way to fix a bowed tile is with a lippage system, even then its not guaranteed. Only time i wouldnt use one is if it was a class A+ tile.
@@hereticxxx9317 I totally agree....you can have a perfectly level tile floor and still have lippage. I couldn't imagine setting long planks without a leveling system. Your subflooring can be perfect and because the tiles are bowed your still going to get that deviation in your head joints and only clips can reduce that.....I know some guys think using them is not for pros or they leave voids or just think the old methods are better, but you simply cannot beat a leveling system for flatness no matter how good you are
I hope in 3 years you have learned more lil buddy. You mud is to dry/thick which makes the trowel lines harder to flatten and your lines should go perpendicular to the tile. Where's the level clips? Guarantee u have lippage
There’s not a lip on any of my jobs. And if the mud was to dry it wouldn’t bond and you can clearly see it grabbed hard. I’m a 24 year tile setter there guy.
Eder Zamora if thinset is to dry it won’t bond or grab, it was very apparent that the mud was grabbing very good when applied to the floor and the back of the tile, also that trowel I was using puts down the same amount of mortar as a 1/2 notch. The end result you are looking for is the amount of coverage you get to the tile.
Troweling with tooth side of trowel on back of tile isn’t back buttering use flat side on back of tile and use half inch x half inch on floor and if you have to pull one up call Brock Lesnar.Point is you don’t trowel floor and tile.
What you are doing is not back buttering you should use the flat side to “back butter” the tile.You wouldn’t use a square notched knife to put butter on a piece of toast would you?Your video is showing people the wrong way to install tile with excess thinset they don’t need to purchase.If you’re set in your ways don’t take advice but if not do and also get some leveling clips and save yourself a lot of time
@@jf9686 putting mud on back of the tile is by definition “back buttering” whether it’s flat trowel or notch. You don’t much large format tile do ya? And even I need to I use leveling clips
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Yes I do a lot of large format tile been in flooring for over 45 years probably longer than you’ve been alive and have never had a customer call me up about a broken tile not once
Thank you for this tutorial. We are installing 6x24 tile during the holiday and your advice will make the job go a lot smoother.
Thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough job explaining this for us! I will be doing my first porcelain 12x24 tile on concrete here soon and this has helped me understand how to do it RIGHT. 😊
My pleasure, feel free to reach out if you run into to anything and have questions.
Very helpful, great demos and detailed explanations thanks. You've probably saved me a small fortune in ripout and starting again with my kitchen floor! 👍
Thank you
Excellent explanation on how to effectively back butter tiles. Thank you.
That was a great overview for plank flooring installation which is a lot difference from the old 12x12 tiles.
Two major mistakes one is large tile format tile is supposed to be used with half-inch trowel remember the bigger the tile the larger the notches and when you back butter keep them all in the same direction you're defeating the purpose by running them in two different directions
Exactly if you put enough mud on the floor and use the right trial you shouldn't need to back butter every single tile
7:30 that is more than 95% coverage he did not make any mistakes, and if he did that just on the substrate with no back trowel then yes he would need a half inch
That tile ain’t going anywhere. Relax.
totally appreciated your detailed explanation, definitely have more confidence in moving forward with my tile in my house. thanks
Nice work - quality install there. Looking forward to more of your videos. 👍🏼👍🏼
lovely demo. fitting tiles like that and getting that full bond is physically harder work too when compared against tiles in which the adhesive notches aren't collapsed. much respect.
(I found this from your comment on the "Fix it all" channel today. Doubt he achieved fully coverage with his teeny tiny notched trowel and no back buttering. lol)
This is sooooooo important. Butter the floor and the tile. That also applys to pool and bathroom tiles.
Cool
But you did one little mistake.. you should troweld the thin-set towards the short direction will be much faster to air to escape.
Installer preference, i would have went with not dampening the concrete before mud.
The other issue was dabbing thin set in spots where its lower. Look, to be honest, trowling in one direction and to the shortest escape route for a tile like you said is important but buttering back of tile is non essential unless that floor is going to be a national traffic thoroughfare!
I've done tiling for 18 years .right down to drying tile this guy knows his shit
Very professional!, I tend to back butter all my tile, even some subway tile, is a bit extra work, but it's worth
Thank you. It’s way worth the extra work
Problem the best video on tiling for beginners
Appreciate that
Good information thanks for sharing keep up the great work by by for now I look forward to hear from you Ken
I'm a tile setter and yes its good to back butter for sure if the tile gets wet but if you put enough mud on the floor and use the right trial you shouldn't need to back butter every single tile. Another thing if you have a 2-3000 square foot house to tile there ain't no way you are going to back butter every one
You back butter every tile no exceptions, the size of the floor doesn’t dictate whether or not you back butter and do it the proper way. I set 8,400 sf of limestone about a year ago and back buttered every last one of them.
Jason, You've explained this really well good job. I just watched your video and leveling tile floors that's a big help. First time to see how to level a floor and keep it level I look forward to hear from you God bless you bye for now Ken
Well the only thing i don't agree is that hen you put the thinset on the floor and also on the back of the tile the lines from the trowel suppose to go in the same way, normally taking the small side of the tile....
Proper type of mortar is also important! Prolite #1
Prolite not even close to being #1
Any medium bed works most times, brand is installers preference.
👍116 thanks for sharing keep up the great work. Ken God bless
Thank you so much for the information! You make it look so easy. I am a DYI and I am laying 10x47 plank porcelain. I use the wedges to help with the lipping, but fight the bow of the tiles when I check them with 4' level. I may be trying for to perfect?? Tips or pointers? I'm going to check out all your videos. Thanks again!
Learn something new awesome job and very detailed
Appreciate that.
This guy's a MONSTER!!! He gave up so many trade secrets --- I ran outta sticky notes tryin' to jot 'em all down!!! ; ) Excellent vid, sir, thank you!!
I would hate to demo this floor in the future and that’s saying good job 👍
You can also step on it to squeeze out the extra cement.
What a great video. Thanks for making it
Great video! Thanks so much for sharing!!
All of your videos are so helpful do you have one on tile patterns and what direction to lay tile? We will be laying the larger plank tiles such as the ones in this video. We will be laying tile in an open living room / kitchen area that will also lead into a hallway. The front door opens directly into the living room area no foyer or anything like that, then it will lead straight through to the kitchen but it will have a hallway to the left not sure what direction to lay it so the hallway looks right...
Hard to say without seeing it, but from your description I would most likely go side to side.
Wow you are a pro! Great detailed video! Love your attention to detail. Thank You for making this video.
This is great information. Thank you!
Thank you glad it helped.
My husband has a how to channel and he's taught himself how to tile but he's looking for more information on laying floor tile in a chopped up bathroom floor he'll be contacting you thank you for sharing good information
Of course. Thanks
@@Apexjasonmorganllc hi this is smell a Vsion,
Husband, question is my bathroom floors chopped up with the cabinet locked in shower and the doorway and I've got two separate dimension bring up with Kyle's different sizes on the opposite ends of the room in order to balance it out up against the wall and I don't see any videos here on CZcams explaining the best way to do that except for I've come to the conclusion I need to do an offset pattern and find right spacing in the offset the balance it out so that, the offsets don't jump out at you. I also have a CZcams channel it's a how to channel, I have videos on how to tile a shower I know nothing about tiling floors I am self taught. but tiling floors is a whole nother animal a bathroom showers pretty straightforward although difficult. But I've never really laid in the floor tile until presently trying to figure it out.
My channel name is easy to tips and tricks Etc, my phone's charging presently I'll come back with the comment. I look forward to hear from you..
don't mean to be so long-winded thanks for getting back to me PS did you know if you upload one video a week every week CZcams after about a month-and-a-half will start recommending your channel here on CZcams?
@@Apexjasonmorganllc how's it going Jason, this is my home improvement how to channel. I'm stuck I'm trying to figure this floor layout out but I really don't have the experience really so I'm in that curve you know you're able to help me out with some pointers that would be great did you know about CZcams promoting your videos? One video a week every week from they will. If you have any questions ?
bye for now. God bless,
Ken
What type of material are you using? The dimensions of the tile?
Jason, this is Ken I'm using ceramic tile with maip thinset but my floor is really offset I have my door opening and about a 2 and 1/2 foot wide cabinet and then my walk in shower is about 5 feet so it runs past the cabinet by about three feet or so my bathroom makes a L shape tile a. Floor the layouts totally different from a shower Denise has to be all chopped up I could send you a link to a video where you could see the layout of the bathroom that might give you a better idea of what I'm talking about and I say it's chopped up
Big favor to ask. I am going to install tile in my living room and kitchen. My home had 12" vinyl glued down under the carpet throughout. Once removed I have the glue swirls. Can I just paint on MAPEI MAPELASTIC AQUA DEFENSE barrier then tile without removing the glue.
Depends on how tall the ridges are. And if it is stuck good? I typically try to remove everything and start clean
I’m a diy er. How do you stop the mortar from coming out of the grout lines? It becomes such a mess for me. I’m setting 12x24 and it just spews out using 1/2 trowel. Thanks. Nice vid btw.
1/2 inch trowel is a lot of mud for 12x24. If your subfloor is fairly flat you can get by with smaller notch and that will help.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Thanks for the quick reply!! I’m actually doing shower wallsand the tiles are running vertical. I’m pretty frustrated with the amount of thin set popping out of the joints. Would you use that trowel size on walls? Thanks
@@Sectionmillionaire-fg8mm I would use a3/8 notch and apply that notch to the wall and also notch the back of the tile. That will give you enough play to avoid lips but should cut down on the mud squeezing out. Also make sure your thinset is a good consistency. One trick is when you place the tile butt the edge of the tile your placing tight to the other tiles and push it into the mortar before you open it up to create your grout joint. That will help with ooze as it will pull the mortar away from your joint. There’s going to be time when you will get some mud coming out, you just have to clean it with a sponge the best you can and scratch it out with a razor knife once the mud is set. I’ll set one day then the following morning before I start seeing I’ll wash and clean what I set the previous day as it’s easier to clean before the mortar gets super hard.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc thanks man
@@Sectionmillionaire-fg8mm did you get a handle on the walls?
I can't for the life of me understand why TWENTY ONE people disliked this video..
Awesome video! Well explained
Thanks great explanation.
I know this is an old video, but you mention most long plank tile like this come bowed from the factory. Doesn't it naturally pull up into the bow as it sets also causing lippage?
I started using levelling clips and thirds as soon as tile started going 1' x 2' and I assume the effect would be worse with long plank tiles like these. You put the level on each end, but not in the middle.. But you clearly know what you are doing. Not using clips would make me much faster. How do you avoid lippage from the bow without leveling clips?
These tiles were fairly flat with a slight bow. We kept the joints random so not doing a half stagger helped with lips. It really depends on the tile you’re working with. I do use clips when I need to but not on every tile.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Okay, that makes sense. If you don't mind a follow up. What is your tolerance for whether to use clips or not?
I typically don't use clips on walls, or at least not as many, with higher quality flat tiles. But haven't even tried a floor without tons of clips for quite a few years. Maybe I'm worrying needlessly..
@@markoshun I’ll use clips if the stagger is a 50/50. Or if the tile has a noticeable crown. These days the clips and wedge quality it way better so I use clips a little more often. If it’s natural stone I do not use clips. You just have to the best judgement call for each tile your setting.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Ok, got it. Thanks so much. I have come to automatically use them. Just threw me seeing a pro tile setter not using them. I do general renoes, so not tile all the time.
I used a Mexican hand-made tile on a shower surround once and even had to throw out the spacers.. was fun. I've got some slate to set on this job coming up, so probably no clips on those.
Will check out more of your videos. Thanks
@@markoshun thanks a lot for watching! Yeah anything natural stone I don’t use them.
I backbutter by skimming a thin coat on the back of the tile. Looks like you spread with a trowel on both the floor and tile. Overkill?
Not overkill. Maximum coverage on the back.
I will also flat trowel on the backs sometimes as well. Just depends on application
Apex floor designs LLC/Jason Morgan yeah those were big tiles and I think you said the floor had some dips.👍
👍👍😊
Mmhhm musttttarrrrrdddd love this guy
Calm down Carl! Whatcha gonna do with that sling blade? 😳
So good!!
use a 1/2" for that big ass tile
Perfect 👌
happen to remember the brand of this tile? i like it alot
Great work!
Recommend use self leveler b4 tiling
Didnt expect comments to be full of anti back butter hacks. Oh well.
Right
Do you use any of the tile leveling systems now?
I do when they are needed. Yes
Thanks good video.. Have you ever used a strap and cap , spindle , Levtec leveling system?
I don't use the clips very much. I'm oldschool
Most of my work is mud float.
I am so worried on how they are going to do our tile, floor and decor contractors are going to do ours, wood tile but I dont want any grout lines visible, any reviews or exp with floor n decor contractors??pl let me know
I still think buttering tile is excessive. There is enough coverage on tile. Unless you are looking to drive vehicles over that floor it is all good.
There’s no such thing as “excess” when it comes to a quality tile floor.
Will fail if you do tile instalation
I'd recommend leveling system
Leveling systems don't make it level. They keep it flat with out lips but not level.
You can't beat a floor that's perfectly level.
@@Apexjasonmorganllc I agree 100%
Still need a lippage system, making the substrate flat before install goes without saying. But i dont care how flat you make the substrate, only way to fix a bowed tile is with a lippage system, even then its not guaranteed. Only time i wouldnt use one is if it was a class A+ tile.
@@hereticxxx9317 I totally agree....you can have a perfectly level tile floor and still have lippage. I couldn't imagine setting long planks without a leveling system. Your subflooring can be perfect and because the tiles are bowed your still going to get that deviation in your head joints and only clips can reduce that.....I know some guys think using them is not for pros or they leave voids or just think the old methods are better, but you simply cannot beat a leveling system for flatness no matter how good you are
Name of trowel
Jason how's it going I'm going to leave that video link for you and my next comment hopefully CZcams doesn't take it
Wow!! Really???
take notes he knows what he is doing!
I hope in 3 years you have learned more lil buddy. You mud is to dry/thick which makes the trowel lines harder to flatten and your lines should go perpendicular to the tile. Where's the level clips? Guarantee u have lippage
There’s not a lip on any of my jobs. And if the mud was to dry it wouldn’t bond and you can clearly see it grabbed hard. I’m a 24 year tile setter there guy.
What size spacer are those
I believe they were a heavy 1/16
Also thinset is way to dry and you need to use a 1/2 trowel.
Eder Zamora if thinset is to dry it won’t bond or grab, it was very apparent that the mud was grabbing very good when applied to the floor and the back of the tile, also that trowel I was using puts down the same amount of mortar as a 1/2 notch. The end result you are looking for is the amount of coverage you get to the tile.
30 minutes to set one tile
Troweling with tooth side of trowel on back of tile isn’t back buttering use flat side on back of tile and use half inch x half inch on floor and if you have to pull one up call Brock Lesnar.Point is you don’t trowel floor and tile.
@@jf9686 totally acceptable to notch back of tile and floor. Come on?!
What you are doing is not back buttering you should use the flat side to “back butter” the tile.You wouldn’t use a square notched knife to put butter on a piece of toast would you?Your video is showing people the wrong way to install tile with excess thinset they don’t need to purchase.If you’re set in your ways don’t take advice but if not do and also get some leveling clips and save yourself a lot of time
@@jf9686 putting mud on back of the tile is by definition “back buttering” whether it’s flat trowel or notch. You don’t much large format tile do ya? And even I need to I use leveling clips
@@Apexjasonmorganllc Yes I do a lot of large format tile been in flooring for over 45 years probably longer than you’ve been alive and have never had a customer call me up about a broken tile not once
lol
Well back-buttering each tile takes too long and you won't make any money
You don’t make money on call backs and problems either I’d rather invest a little more time on the install and give my customer a very solid floor.
So stay home lazy in the couch
@@marcopoulin1897 are you a professional tile setter?
Do you back butter smaller tile or subway tile?? 🤔 🤭😆
This guy can't be a professional tiler!!!
22 years in the tile trade
Apex floor designs LLC/Jason Morgan I have been tiling 31 yrs and your video was great for people to learn from,ignore the haters.
I’ve been tiling for six days!!! Alex is no professional. I am!!!