The Best Way to Back Butter a TILE. TileCoach Episode 32
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2020
- The best way to back butter a tile (bonding coat). Leave your comment below on what you think is the best way to back butter a tile, or do you even need to back butter tiles?
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Praying that my first tile job doesn't end up being the worst you've ever seen. These videos are amazing! A whole new world! Thank you!
Welcome to tile you should post your results on CZcams or Reddit
How'd it go
@@robertm7486Way harder than they thought it would be.
@@br6422damn sure is. My first tile job came out pretty good but I made a mess.
I am a novice in the middle of my first full bathroom remodel which includes setting tile for the first time. I did not realize there are set ways to back butter. Anyway I use a combination of both ways. I start by pulling it toward me and finish going the other way to fill in the areas where the coverage was too thin. When I do the large 12 x 24 floor tiles I place the 12” edge of the tile on the floor, put mortar on the trowel and pull it up to the other end. As an older guy (73) I don’t feel comfortable holding the tile and spinning it around on my palm. Anyway, thanks for teaching these skills. You gave me the confidence to do it myself.
And a great coach you are. Thanks for great videos and teaching the proper way of doing all that you do.
Talk about a debatable subject. Great video Isaac!
I'm a novice and prefer pulling toward to for the same reason. And, you reconfirmed even the common sense trick with the mud. Thanks
Love watching your videos..i learn so much from you. Thanks for this
When you pull towards you the plops are more likely to hit you as you lift off the edge, even though you can see how much mud is ahead of the trowel. Pushing away from you and towards the open mouth of the mud bucket keeps you clean and the excess mud back in the bucket instead of on you or the floor. You start with the mud in the middle of the tile which makes sense while balancing a big tile on your palm. I would agree with your mentor and bet he did his buttering over his bucket...and stays cleaner. 😎 Also his trowel is facing the right way when he goes to pick it up next...when bedding mud for the next set
Hey man . Awesome video. Very educational!!👍
Thanks brother man you are a gem love your videos
Good advice for helpers (or apprentices) and anyone at whatever stage they are in their carrier (& even goes for other trades as well....watch, listen, & learn.)
I actually was taught to back butter the same way you do yours Issac, lol. Then I was working with another guy & he did his the other way; so....able to do it both, but prefer coming towards me, as easier to see, imo,
Hope you & Fam doing well.
Cheers✌🏼
Haha, so funny you made a video about it, that was a great IG post. Way to make it educational as well. I'm going to have to make a backbutter away video lol. 12x24, I usually have the one edge on my hip or kneepad so I am not actually holding the full weight of the tile. Do 2/3rds, spin and hit the last third.
Love your videos!!! I propose that the back buttered tile using the worst technique (all else the same) will work better than a dry tile. I also propose that we not let “not perfectly perfect” keep us from doing the best we can do.
I am self-taught and I do it the same way you do. It feels more natural and I can see what I'm doing rather than flinging thinset off the edge of the tile not knowing how much there is.
Pulling the trowel toward you makes more sense for me also. You can see what’s coming at you. Thanks for the vid.
I do it differently depending on where I’m setting. If possible I rest the bottom of the tile on the thinset bucket or my knee and drag it from the bottom up then hit the edges that weren’t covered. If I’m holding it, I wedge the tile between my bicep and fingers and butter it away from my body.
Another great, informative video. Thank you for your time and instruction.
So I thought when tiles were back buttered, they were troweled so there were ridges. But they're troweled flat with thinset? Thanks for the insight on that. I'm getting ready to put up some wall tile.
What ever works best for you your way is pretty good as Well to get the job done good.cheers mate.
Coach - thanks so much (and Merry Christmas!), this is great. Such a simple thing, for me, a nube and DIYer, getting ready to remodel my own bathroom, your videos are awesome! I emailed you a question in relation to getting a plan set up with you. Cheers!
Very helpful and informative for me, a DYI’er
Your videos are awesome!
I always do towards my self like you. But when I put mortar on the ground or on the wall, I do it away from me. I think there it is the origins. Brick layers are the first tile layers.
Thanks for the help it the past. My project went great!
First, I really like that you key in the mortar instead of just going through the motions. Second I push away to keep the unusually sharp edge of my trowels away from me.
Great training videos! Regarding backbuttering, should one also add the notches when backbuttering?
It can save time when doing large areas with a helper to stack a bunch upside down and scratch coat a half dozen or more at a time. Zero drips on the edges and 100% coverage.
Great video. One question: Mapei Ultraflex LHT or Laticrete MultiMax Lite for 12x24 walls/floors?
Can you do a video showing the difference from back buttered vs no backbutter? It would be cool to see the difference in force required to pull up each tile while wet and after it’s cured.
I do it the same way as you too. This is all preference not a right or wrong way.
Excellent presentation 👍
Well made short video.
Thank you, well done
Do you ever comb it when you back butter? Some of the tile I've been setting are really cupped.
Opinion on CRYLPRO thin set at HD vs. thin set you mentioned for tiling on a 12x24 tile installation?
Thanks for video
Now that I think about it I tend to push the thin set away from me on the back buttering. Safe to say I do a little bit of both especially with those long planks.
I was trained by old school tile setters. They never told me to back trowel tiles in a certain direction, but they did teach me to avoid pulling the thin set so tight that it scapes the back side of the tile.
Shit with 1/8th ply wood, 1/4 hardiebacker, 1/2 inch troweled mud and back buttering in general I never like to leave it too thick. Most LFT is 10mm generally so I'm not saying to skimp on back mudding but I go as thin as possible like the guy in this video. But definitely 1000 different ways to skin a cat and as long as the work comes out as durable as it should be beautiful that's all that matters too.
What can you do if thinset is set and you notice a gap between the concrete floor and the tile can you add more thinset and stick it in that empty space? Or do you have to remove the tile and install a new one?
Do you back butter small tile like 3x6 subway? Also what size trowel would you recommend for 3x6 and 4x12 subway tile?
Coach, I will be installing 4 x 12 tile as a backsplash. Unfortunately, I am slow in all that I do because I was diagnosed with MS. But I still can tile, I believe. To avoid spreading mastic or thinset to the drywall and having it dry before I can press the tiles, I am contemplating backbuttering each tile. My question is whether I can backbutter only and not apply mastic or thinset to the wall?
My second question is whether tiling over painted drywall is a no-no? Do I need to apply some primer or should I be sa0nding the the painted drywall first?
I found using a 6” dry wall knife to back butter and pulling towards me was less strain on my wrist.
I like to stick my tile on a bucket when doing this. Good vid.
Yes much easier and you less energy
Makes a big difference when you're doing it all day
Why not place the tile on a small flat turntable (like those used on the dining room table)?
At a height of 150 cm if possible (to see the mud).
I do this for the 90cm x 45cm tiles.
DIY'er
@@Hal34700 this is an excellent idea. I have a 1000sq ft floor to do with 12x24 tiles next week and I’m going to make a little back butter rig like you suggested. Should save time and energy
People tend to train their way. As a musician, taking lessons, this always happens but good instructors will tell you to find your way to what makes you comfortable. You never want to play an instrucment in an uncomfortable way as you’re performing. The same goes for this Buttering process. Your teacher was telling you to do his way that he became comfortable with. While watching you, it makes sense to butter toward you bc you can monitor your thin set for application and spillage.
I always use a 1/8 trowel to butter the tile,works fine too.
Hey Isaac, would you still be interested in an Aquadefense cardboard test? I told you last year I'd do one, but my 1 gallon container got air in it and dried up, and I didn't want to open a new 5 gallon one and have the same happen. I also seemingly fixed a cracked toilet tank with thinset behind the crack inside, and two coats of Aquadefense in the tank.
I vote towards, I like to see what I'm doing!
I guess I never really thought about it. Probably makes more sense to see the mortar and pull it towards you. Maybe that's why I do it the other way lol?
Yes tile coach I don't lay tile day in and day out because I am a contractor so one week I might be doing drywall next week I'm doing roofing and I'm getting ready to do 24-in tile I'm going to be doing six of them then plank tiling along the sides of it I'm just curious what's the difference of either pushing the trial away from you or pulling I like to pull idea better because that way you like you said you can see your mud I'm just curious why the gentleman that taught you was that just because that's just a way he did it and yada yada yada
How thick is the back butter supposed to be? I'm a little confused cuz it's easy to get that uneven versus your notched trowel which helps with levelness
Should you put slightly more muck in the middle where big tiles have that slight warp
Great information I'm starting my first big tiling job our lounge room so big aarrghh
I self taught myself and reasoning is that I can wrap the tips of my fingers over the edge if the tile and hold it in place. I can see and feel the mud.
Not a right or wrong way, I do it the same as you. I make a mess going away from me, lol.
I’m pretty sure that I use both directions during back buttering. It just depends on the tile, the workspace, etc. In fact ideally I prefer to set the tile something so I don’t have to support it with my other hand.
When I am tiling on a wall, I typically skim the Walls and then load the notched mud bed onto the back of the tile. This just makes a much cleaner install in terms of mortar in the joints.
My take away from this is that I need a helper to keep my trowel washed and thinset stirred down 😉 that does sound pretty helpful!
What's is a good method for 600x600 tiles, damn those things are heavy to work with
Backbuttering adds more thinset which means notched trowel is too small to start with if you need to add more. Secondly square notch on floor tiles is much worse than round notch because it's much harder to get full coverage on square rather than round notch. Square for walls round for floors.
Backbuttering is only needed if you use natural tiles or tile that has very coarse pattern on back of tile.
In the UK can't find LHT?
Put it on towards you and pull it off away. This goes for a ton of applications including caulk, prefilling drywall gaps with mud or anything involving liquid or concrete adhesive. What this does is push it into the pores and pushes the material both ways to get the best adhesion.
...good logic
When I back butter I invariably leave a little on the edge which then ends up on my shirt when II rotate the tile!
We are tiling for the first time. We, it's the first time I tiled bathtub/shower walls... Let just say thank goodness it's a guest shower.. We made lots of mistakes but learned from them.. Still not done... I will say that my tiles are not all the same size from the box, which threw our lines off.. Almost each tile was a different length out of the box.They were not cheap..ahhgggg.. Unfortunately, I waited to remove the thin set, and yes, what a pain. How donyou get it off?. Also, I did notice a lippage in the corner, and it's slightly larger than a dime and not sure what to do about it.. The thin set is dried, but not grout yet.. It's just frustrating 😒 but my reminder is that we never done this before, hence the spare bathroom for the test run... But as my 97-year-old neighbor was in this business, and said its your first time. You made mistakes and learn from them so you don't repeat them again. He encouraged me to continue just like yall do...
I would like to see a video where you install cultured marble in a shower. Also, this may not be your thing, but have you ever moved a wall back that had plumbing in it. Like moving a wall that had the shower handles and spicket
I don't think the thought has ever crossed my mind. This is one of those things that doesn't even matter. I think it's more important to get a good even coat when back buttering.
It is always nice to see choices when working with back butter style!
It really does matter, as well as the "keying"
@@chrisbowring4298 back buttering matters, but how you back butter doesn't matter.
it does matter on size of tile or surface if you flat trowel or notch side it
Never though about it, I pull towards me. Gonna have to pull away on next job See how it goes 😂
I always trowel the butter toward me also.
What size Notch trowel should you use for a 12 x 24 inch format tile?
Usually a 1/2” trowel
Hey Isaac. I love your channel. How do you determine whether or not to back butter?
You can back trowel everything if you want , I pretty much just back trowel stone.
I back butter almost everything, much better bond!
This is a “the right way, or my way” haha. I pull to my body. I think either way is totally acceptable. It’s a comfortable thing…
Either way is correct.
👍👍
pulling towards you , you have slim chance of the tile getting away from you ...pushing, especially with wet hands then grasp for the tile as its falling and get mortar allover your hands..heart rate spikes thru the roof and almost gives you heart attack..Also its easier to pull than push while holding a heavy ass tile up in the air for that long...to me. i keep meaning to get a bucket spinner thingy so i never have to hold a tile up in the air like that again.
I always pull the mortar towards me, it's easier and faster.
Your buffed
Pretty much do it the same way, no one taught me ,but been remodeling/ tiling , since my early 20s , and even before helping out as kid.. I am in my 50s.
I must say I dont get all this waterproofing , roll on stuff now.
I mean the Dura- rock, is made to have a good bond with thin- set, but then they go and paint the durarock?? Tile can easily fail if you dont have correct bond. One thing I noticed is if the cement gets a skin on it or not tacky to your touch, your not gonna get a good bond.
I only back- butter large tile, small thin tile seem to get a good bond.
Hey,bro! All the fuss about waterproofing is because most traditional materials used in tiling are porous. The thin set,grout,cement board,and a lot of tiles are porous. Dri-pack pans with a membrane can have water sitting inside for years. Imagine all that water remaining inside your job,and the homeowner shuts down their house for the winter and heads south for warmer weather! Freeze/thaw cycles ,mold, and damage! OH,MY!Lol
@@tilemonkee5510 so explain why some tile jobs 100 years old are still bonded and no mold or water and obviously they never user a membrane ?
Spin it like a pizza pie and pull to the corners. Keep a brake pad. No raspberry on your hand.
It doesn’t matter which way you do it, as long as you are working from the middle out to the corners. Why wouldn’t you use a bucket or something to lean the tile on though? Especially you like your other hand, wrist and forearm.
I don’t do tile, but if I did, I would do it just like my tile coach. One of these days I am going to rip out my plastic molded shower and tile it, just so I can justify the watching all these videos.
I pull it towards me just like if you were using a hawk. You're is the "right" way!
I like to pull, so if it starts to slump off I can flip the trowel before it falls.
Just use a normal uk 12 inch plasters trowel edges are all straight not combed.
Its "back trowel" , using the back of the trowel, and I push it away.
Adopting a particular technique because someone else says that's the way to do it is silly. The technique that should be used is the one that works best for the installer. To me, pushing it away feels awkward, plus, your point about not being able to see it; therefore, I think pulling it toward you is actually the proper way to do it. I can't even see any advantages to pushing it away.
I like your method better
I'm sorry, but SEEING is much better than NOT SEEING. I do not like working in the blind, especially not knowing whether my mud will end up on the floor, which I do not want. Isaac's butter method is logical. It makes the most sense. Certain people are controlling personalities, and with that defect, they wish to control how others work. There is nothing wrong with developing your own technique, especially if it does a better, more efficient job. When it comes to certain techniques, there can't be right and wrong. These are personal choices, and there better be a damn good reason to make them.
Question why was your teacher, Telling you to move the things that away from you versus toward you, That's the question, I like you prefer to be able to see how much mud I'm moving. Forward to hear from you by for now Ken
Those plops on the ground are the reason I pull towards me.
.... Bingo. 👍
Taylor ham or Pork roll,
Helper: 1-2 yrs in
Apprentice: 3+ yrs in
Master: 159 yrs
I hold the edge of a 12x24 tile with my fingertips and the other edge rests in the crook of my elbow, then draw the thinset towards me. No idea how tall you are, Isaac,but this doesn't work for short people! Lol
I do the same and pull towards myself
Least amount of strokes wins... Just key in flat before combing the back...
Need to tell people back butter natural stone with Portland cement not thinset
I've always pulled it towards me.
What is the point of buttering a tile with the flat side of the trowel? This isn't going to aid coverage. Adding time to the job without adding any value to the process.
Away from me! Flat trowel, differant bucket of thinset, some type of table or bucket. The tiles keep getting bigger and I keep getting older!
....yes, sure does seem so... lol
i think your working for marshalltown on the side. its the best trowels
Towards or away doesn't matter. Just don't make a mess.
Had a helper once that would load the trowel and pull from the corner in. He lasted a couple weeks.
I'll stick with towards. Pushing away is awkward and I don't see any advantage. I lean the tile on one edge rather than balancing it, but I can spin one like a pizza crust if I have to. Boogers... haa haa
Who disliked the video?
I reckon it really doesn’t matter, the end result is the same
Wow 😕
I push it away from me.faster and cleaner
[For you]
spread away over your bucket.. its not that hard
I prefer anvils margin trowel. I break those martial towns constantly. Wont buy em anymore