Declaring Other People Insane | Jon Ronson | TEDxMarthasVineyard
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences. Jon draws on 25 years of his journalism - including his book The Psychopath Test and documentary Stanley Kubrick's Boxes - to explore why we seem to love nothing more than to declare other people insane. We love to define people by their outermost edges, to the aspects of their personalities that might be labeled mental disorders. All this is creating a more conservative, conformist age. "Look," we're saying. "WE'RE normal. THIS is the average." We are defining the boundaries of normality by reducing to diagnostic labels those people on the outside of it. But the truth is there is no evidence that we have been placed on this planet to be especially happy or especially normal. And in fact it's our unhappiness and anxieties and compulsions - those least fashionable aspects of our personalities - that quite often lead us to do rather interesting things.
Jon Ronson’s books include the New York Times bestsellers The Psychopath Test and Lost at Sea: The Jon Ronson Mysteries and international bestsellers Them: Adventures with Extremists and The Men Who Stare at Goats. He also co-wrote the screenplay for Frank, now in theaters, starring Michael Fassbender and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Ronson is a regular contributor to This American Life and lives in London and New York City.
About TEDx, x = independently organized event In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations)
How can they argue they are not stealing his personality when they use his photo
Should have brought that up! Man those three really grump me.
They seemed to be being intentionally objectionable and even sociopathic(whatever that actually means). I'm not sure they were real.
a Sociopath is a person who rarely cares for anyone/anything
Mirror Magic I know the psychiatric definition.
I'm not justifying it, but they're conducting a social experiment, and your reactions are what they're curiously observing. See, it's about the audience as much as it is about Jon. Our sense of identity, i.e. Our egos, how we view who we are. A living breathing organism that's heart is going to stop beating one day and decompose in the ground, but he calls himself a man named Jon and takes that idea very seriously. Who are you? Breathing
They're gaslighting Jon and it's ugly. Thank you for the talk Jon 💞
It just reached Portland & may destroy the town
I agree. I feel badly for Jon. Their lack of empathy of any kind for him is incredibly disturbing.
They really are too
Yup exactly. And gaslighting is something psychpaths do. Good thing the guy sucked at it lol.
The beginnings of being a targeted individual. Only here they are revealing themselves and allowing themselves to be filmed.
The middle guy is mad at Jon Ronson because he literally stole Jon Ronson's identity Jon Ronson is calling him on it.
all they did was deflect his questions and statements. always talking about how strange his desires were, how ridiculous and even malicious it was for him to not want to be misrepresented or defamed.
Owen Lilly "I think it's quite interesting that you think the twitter account we intentionally put your name on and your face in its profile is stealing your identity"
Unreal, isn't it? Typical sociopaths.
Dawn Marie Roper These would be perfect examples of the psychopaths running our world... It's not an accident....
What they did was present him with a different approach on the matter of identity. Although their method seems unorthodox, I believe they somehow criticize the epidemic use of social media as well as self-centered human behavior, ultimately asserting that profiles do not really represent who we are.
George Derleres
Yes, but they were doing it poorly. If they were students they would have been given low grades for causing harm to the speaker at my Uni. Shameful of them.
"Why would you use your real name on twitter I find that strange" BECAUSE IT'S MY NAME WHY WOULDN'T I USE MY OWN NAME ???
They're pseudo-intellectual idiots who believe they know more then others, you can see the superiority in their attitudes
There are legitimate personal security reasons for not using your real name, especially if you’re talking about anything controversial.
@@zawbones5198 or man up, own your words and be connected to the idea. If you are trying to keep your distance from an idea then it's probably a bad idea, just saying
That Weird Kid From High School Fair point. Howevere, there are certain circumstances when that might not be the case.
It's ironic to the point of parody that they are questioning his use of his own name and face but feel they are entitled to do so with their ridiculous spam bot.
The short clips with the 'Academics' is comedy gold...
"You'd like it to be more like you?" "No, I'd like it to not exist" Bwahah!
I would like to make a movie that looks the way his voice sounds.
Its called its such a beautiful day directed by Don hertzfeldt
TheCucamber Kick any Wes Anderson movie
I felt like that is what he had done here! For real. This has to be a joke..
The wind rises
I keep pausing the video because I get superfrustrated with those guys
I want to learn to be as calm as Jon is with this kind of people
Forsaken Algonquinia I mean after the video he stabbed them in their faces multiple times so he wasn’t that calm with them
Madeline Loyd lmaoo
THOSE 3 MEN PISS ME OFF SO MUCH. The middle guy is trying to be so manipulative, you don't even know what to say to them anymore because they are a lost case. fking hell.
The worst part of it is that not only is he is trying to be manipulative but he's also really bad at it (and has no idea).
cut that "you're not the only Jon Ronson" bullshit they stole HIS photo wtf
I get Jon's point at the end, but those men really are mentally damaged in some way to have sat there and tried to gaslight and demonize Jon. For Christ's sake, they were using his PICTURE and name, not just his name.
If they used his picture for the twitter acct then that is fraudulent! Those men are absolutly insane!
How the hell is it bizarre to use your own name on Twitter?
‘Do there can only be one person with the name Jon Ronson?’ With my face yes!
why didn't they just change the picture? it doesn't compromise their project in the least, and would no doubt have been enough to satisfy jon
yet again Charlie Murphy is the sane one. I agree. The crux of that issue was they represented him specifically by using his photo.
Or use his picture with some other name.
Wow these guys are rude. If I were Jon I'd be calling a lawyer.
Me too. Clearly libel.
it's actually faking someones ID. In denmark they could get in prison
Jacob EA. Unless they were Muslim, I'd wager...
Not sure i understand what you mean, why would their religion do otherwise?
Scandinavian countries have notoriously been extremely reluctant to prosecute muslims who are committing crimes. Their PC idiocy has created a crisis in Sweden, Norway, and Denmark. They even censor news when they DO arrest anyone of that so-called religion.
+Roy Pitta - This is news to me, while political correctness can lead to some modified behaviour, I do not believe this has actually manifested itself in the way you are portraying. Political correctness in itself does not "create a crisis", it simply tries to remove bias from the equation - which is (to be fair) not completely possible. By protecting a political, religious or social minority from unfair bias you can end up glorifying said minority, but you can just as well end up damaging it indirectly (if third parties feel your portrayal it is "too PC"). The latter has been part of the reason why we see a rise in right-wing populism in Europe (and other countries) in recent years - of course in combination with the actual geopolitical issues faced at the moment.
My point being that political correctness is just an unrealistic ideal, that (if not used with a good amount of thought) can really influence puplic opinion on a subect in a positive/negative way - but it is not the sole cause for any religious conflict.
However, I have not heard of any "censored news" in regard to religious beliefs of criminal offenders in Denmark, so I would appreciate it, if you would provide any sort of evidence or even just a news source for this? One would think that this would've been cleancut ammunition for the anti-PC segment, but I haven't heard anything about this sort of media manipulation being an actual political issue in Denmark.
Dane here, first time I hear about a crisis in Denmark.
Those 3 were truly horrible people and should be sued to take down the accounts of people's identities that they steal. Hope they do get sued and shut down. Perhaps you should get James Veitch to send replies to them:)
Every new talk I see by this man makes me appreciate him more and more.
And I've dealt with people like the spambotters before. Mostly freshmen at university. People that think that being baseline clever gives them license to be bellends to other people. People that clearly aren't bright enough to understand how to interface and engage with other human beings.
Not "I was angry". Instead," "I felt a tightness in my chest". Such a gracious man.
Dude I love Jon's voice especially the cadence to it
I think the dude in the middle was trying his own attempt at manipulative phsycology and the dude to his left was just a friend there to make it look like theyre both sophisticated. The older dude might've been a teacher just sitting there to observe and see how they handle it.
There's actually another name for 'manipulative psychology'. It's called 'gaslighting'.
Academics with their apexes up their posteriors.
the "academic"''s comment that he doesn't know anyone who uses their own name on twitter is entirely disingenuous. The truth is only early adopters were ABLE to register with their own names. And to say there's something weird about wanting to "kill" the account is also a twisted distraction from the truth that no one wants a false twitter account out in the world. He would have made a more compelling argument if he pointed out that Jon Ronson's integrity is in tact, that the spam bot is just entertainment and nothing more.
I respect this man so much!
hahahaha those guys at 4:30 are CLOOOOWNS. I can't believe this. WHO THE HECK DOESN'T USE THEIR OWN NAME.
+Rusty Clanton Very few did in the beginning of twitter.
everyone that wants to establish a brand, everyone that doesn't want to be doxxed straight away, everyone that is uncomfortable with their own name and everyone that works in the art field and wants an Artist name.
Rusty Clanton I'm not sure Rusty Clanton, who doesn't use their own name?
They're fucking assholes but I laughed proper hard at that
Those who want to remain anonymous on the Internet.
i love this guy
6:10 wtf? I have a twitter with my own name? Is that really so rare? All of my family have a twitter using their own names.
apparently, in the early days of twitter no one did.
i dont know how old is the video but that could be it
As an academic I’m genuinely appalled by these researchers. It’s so unethical and in my experience should not have passed an ethics board application (if it was even submitted, which it might not have been given that they’re working with “public information”).
Maybe it was an academic "art project". Either that or they're the next step of the future. Ethics are dead and buried, all hail the coming of Rapture, and its eventual downfall...
@@CyclobomberIn my country lots of academic papers have a very limited ethics board. Mostly the attitude of "oh but x isn't unethical" but they fail to see the wider context of how it could be unethical in certain situations.
Basically highly beurocratic and robotic so strange things get rejected and even stranger things get accepted
@@Stettafire Yeah there's a lot of universities the world across which "ethics board" is just a strawman and an extensuiin of cronyism.
I'd be so angry and confused.
But honestly, I'd have a lot of trouble expressing why that is so.
assuming you would be angry and confused, how would you express why?
haha!
I wrote that 4 months ago, and even after listening to it a second time, I've only got a sliver of an answer:
If the spambot has my name and my picture and is purporting to be me, then it could damage my current or future personal relationships.
It sort of bugs me that the spambot academics would feel that its ok to damage a brand, for whatever reason, even though our reputations are valuable and worth protecting.
Will the real Jon Ronson please stand up.
He can't, spam-bots don't have legs!
@@katiem9426 n o t y e t t h e y d o n t
@@katiem9426 Katie...I think you mean infomorph...
The master of Ted talks!
A very interesting man. Love his talks!
If they were so "okay" with the concept of ripping off someone's name & physical likeness for their little project & they found it "so weird" to be bothered by having a you that isn't you out in the world, why wouldn't they use one of their own names & physical likenesses? I don't think they cant fathom his reaction at all because they didn't choose to use one of their own for a reason. I believe the reason being that they knew how it wud feel.
notice how their whole cadence and body language uncomfortably shifts when he brings up the language games they employ , they all agree right away as well.
I dunno what it is about this man but i've watched three of his tedtalks and theyre soo appealing i just love how he deliver these talks and the topic he choose to cover
what utter nonsense-they arent just using his name, they are using his PICTURE! It isnt anything like asking people in the phone book to change their names....crazy non-logic. Those people are trolls, and manipulative!
Spambotman can't be fucking serious.
Oh he TOTALLY knows what he's doing, he's just too stupid to realize that people see right through him.
Birta R Ha yeah it's like when you've got a manipulative personality, but you're not smart enough to carry it off :D
Taxtro I think they're interested in how people explain themselves, how people see their identities, how we see ourselves in relation to our online personae. I think they certainly knew what they were doing, knew why he'd be furious at them, but they are interested in the difficulty he has in dealing with their rationalizations. They are certainly aware of their cruelty towards him.
I can imagine a possible white-hat rationale for their actions; perhaps in engaging with an intelligent author of some fame, they hoped to spark wider discussion about online identity. Perhaps they're just pure sadists. Hard to say, really. I don't think I'd ever want to be their friends; they're way too comfortable with manipulating someone in pain. I don't think I'd ever deliberately aid them in any of their actions. But it is possible that their larger intent aligns with their idea of the greater good.
The three academics remind me of the German Anarchists in The Big Lebowski...
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
Nice one..
if I found a bot using my name and picture posting things I would be pissed.
Corinne Ambler you’re the bot! I’m telling the real Corinne!
Perhaps he wasn't being clear enough why he didn't like having a spam-bot in his name. Honestly, it wasn't just his name. It was his picture too. It had fooled friends of his. The first comment to his video was right. It was identity theft, all be it a fairly benign example. Imagine if the bot had become popular. Or his boss found it and thought it was the real him. And then it said something awful. At its most extreme, he could've lost his job, been the punching bag of the internet, and struggled to get by because no-one wanted to hire him after what a bot, masquerading as him, said. The academics didn't seem to understand. On the Internet, your identity is your brand, especially if you're famous, even mildly.
Now... I hope the bot got reported and removed from Twitter. No-one deserves to have someone else pretending to be them, much less a stupid spam-bot.
Now *this* is the best TED talk I'll ever see
So how much weed had that guy in the middle been smoking?
I hate seeing my real name online, I don't even let people take my picture so.my face is never online. I've met people on real life that have only known on-line and freakefd out. I'm not me online, I'm slightly different, in some places I'm me but most of the time I'm an unreal me and saying my name would get me and my image confused, that would be dangerpus.
Ruth Barr Is your name Ruth?
"Why would you use your own name?" - why wouldn't you? I think them using the real Jon Ronson's photo for the bot - that is unreal - I'd sue them ... absolutely.
Sounds like a gaggle of narcissists, frankly. The great psychological manipulators.
Lmao, when people argue with rhetoric alone, it's so fuCKING ANNOYING. LIKE I'M NOT STUPID, I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
Love Jon Ronson, such an interesting, smart, funny guy
His books are fantastic!
I think the right answer would have been "This thing is using my name and face, it's damaging my reputation. You will shut it down, or I'll sue you for everything you have."
The first "part" with the spambot is basically the first chapter of "So you have been publicly shamed".
If you start reading the book (or listening). It's all good, it gets "different". So don't stop, it's a good book :)
I work in IT security and that is a classic case of collating data and metadata to create a secondary account based on a real person unfortunately this is not illegal it should be but it also raises serious moral and ethical concerns
I first thought they had a good point. Considering how accessible all that information about someone is, how easy it is to fake being that person, how much emphasis should we put on being that online person? I didn't grow up with the internet being as widely accessible and the thought of sharing information about oneself with a greedy, hostile world feels weird.
I don't have kids but if I did, I wouldn't want them to share their name, address and other such information with the general public. I have been victim of identity theft in the real world and since then it bothered me how liberally your name and personal data are thrown around in spam letters. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, FIRSTNAME LASTNAME, ADDRESS, ZIP CODE, CHECK OUT SOME JUNK.
So a bot that goes around and mimicks people in a somewhat harmless way to draw attention to how easy it is does make sense in my view.
But I noticed that wasn't their intent, so I started grabbing torch and pitchfork as well.
one of the best ted talks I've seen in awhile!
Dan O'Hara uses his real name on Twitter.
To be more like you?
-I'd like it to not exist..
That's bizzare
-Then id like it to not exist :)
Yeah :S
-Why
I find something quite psychologically interesting about that
-Why?
Um, you know therre a kind of interesting kind of uncanny sense of i dont know- aggressive almost
You'd like to kill those algorithms - like you must feel threatned in some way
Of course he feels threatened, it’s making people believe things about him that are not true.
This guy is so nice so smol and so calm
I love Jon Ronson
How could 3 men be this insufferable?
that's very interesting, i wish i could access the full interview,
Genius !
This is so true.
Sad case with the girl who overdosed. I've had my experience with psychiatric drugs. Was on an SSRI called fluvoxamine. They said this is the one with the least side effects. One day, after about half a year on fluvoxamine, on a whim, I decided to quit taking my pills cold turkey. The withdrawal symptoms was the scariest thing I've ever experienced. The best way I can describe it is that I felt like my brain was floating outside of my skull. I was nauseous, I was dizzy, my head was spinning, I was easily irritated, my head hurt, I was sweating, and something very weird happened, I was feeling these zaps in my brain, like I could feel the electricity surging through my neurons. Since the only way to make the symptoms go away was to continue taking the SSRI, I continued taking my pills. A short while after that I complained to one of the psychiatrists (I see a different one almost every time. It's the system in that hospital) that I was taking a really long time to ejaculate during sex, sometimes not at all. So the psychiatrist prescribed me a different SSRI called mirtazapine that supposedly had less sexual dysfunction side effects. She also gave me a cross taper plan to wean me off fluvoxamine so that I won't feel any side effects. But the withdrawal symptoms came back. I felt completely out of control of myself, like I was losing my mind. At the end of the cross taper, my symptoms subsided but I was freaked out. I decided I didn't want those mind altering drugs in my brain anymore. So I just didn't go for my next appointment. I don't know the official status of my sanity right now.
The disappointing thing is, the psychiatrist brushed off my symptoms and refused to call it withdrawal symptoms. It's like they're trying to protect their profession or something. They don't want their drugs to be associated with the drugs that people normally abuse. After that I read about the Anti-Psychiatry movement and the Rosenhan Experiment. I was shocked after a conversation with a friend of mine who is a freshly graduated medical student because he told me they didn't teach about the Rosenhan Experiment during the Psychiatry module of his studies.
I'm not against psychiatry or psychology. I think it's good that we try to understand more about our brains, but I think it's too early for doctors to be treating patients with mental disorders. What we know now about the brain is so little, there's so much more to be learned. The same can be said about the field of Economics. I think quite a number of people in the field of mental health share my sentiments, or at least, they think there's a problem with how most doctors diagnose and treat patients. But of course, it's a dilemma. If governments fund research into mental health, they expect results like a way to deal with people with mental issues and sometimes, a way to deal with political dissidents...
While I agree with you when you state that there still is much to be learned about the way medicine affects the brain, I also note that the "withdrawal symptoms" you experienced while off the drug were relatively normal. If you are able to manage without, my non-doctor advise would be to do so, but if you feel like you can't function without, those side effects would seem more annoying than severe. Really annoying, but not necessarily a sign of a dangerous addiction.
+HC BYRD There is still much more to be learned about the brain. I.. wow.. ok.. I did not like those side effects at all and to me they are severe.
@2:15 lol good stuff 🙂 can't wait to finish this vid
The "academics" can probably tick off most of the criteria in the psychopath list.
I mean... its one thing to use the name Jon_Ronson, it's a whole other thing to use the name and image of this particular Jon Ronson.
Who should find out who those people are, and repurpose their identity into an informorphic property. For "psychological tests"
Jon is amazing. I love his brain.
That guy talking (the academic person) is such an unlikeable character.
I love you! Why do people have to say someone is a psychopath or a sociopath or . . . he is just unlikeable! it's so easy to say . . .
i read an article about the meeting and the quote was (credit Dave Trott);
{there are] People who think the world is all about algorithms.
Or people who think the world is all about people.
I think I might be worried about those people who commented but I suppose the voice of the veiwers is passionate like that
That's a whole new level of pretentious that I wasn't even aware was possible.
Jon could talk about the structural integrity of 19th century concrete and i'd still watch the video
There's another option nobody talks about that's more common today than when the video was made: just flat out saying it's an automated spamming system. If it was branded differently it literally wouldn't matter. You can name it anything you want but using the man's picture makes it obviously not a mistake or simple misunderstanding. It's like they were doing an experiment on cancel culture and identity theft at the same time.
If I were him, I would sue them for identity theft or defamation of character. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure assuming someone's likeness and name on social media is grounds for a lawsuit. Just listening to those pompous assholes speak made me furious for him. Un-fucking-believable, the nerve of some people.
You make me think about extraordinary things and smile. Thank you Jon. 🤩🤪😂
The man's voice is just lovely ngl
Very wise words. As we move towards Mr. TRUMP'S inauguration day Im goi g to try and not let his online communications arm my apprehensions with negative labels that define his abnormalities. And I will attempt not to use that labeling on my Minority friends fears of exclusion. Which leaves me quite convoluted in what to think about the human race's future and where I myself fit in. But like Mr.Ronson said perhaps the significance is found in getting our human confusions organized and not keeping those confusions labeled?
I love what you had to say here. Thank you for expressing the thoughts of a person with an open mind and heart.
Let's flip this - i don't really post on social media that much but if someone tried to pretend to be me I'd be pretty annoyed - not protecting my online reputation - i don't have one. But they didn't pick an unknown member of the public - they picked a well known figure.
omg I'm crying! :'D This is hilarious!
because we love passing judgement on other people. when people do that just tell them only the government has authority and move on.
I thought the trolls are clever. I think Jon is working with them probably lol. For this humor
A very poignant point at the end, but has me questioning 1) can we become more gentle with oneanother 2) how people can wean themselves off of the "survival instinct" which, is he suggesting that we "modify" that out of our Human instinct 3) he seems to be an extremely nice person in an extremely insane society.....hopefully the mad people don't murder all the meek people of the world.
I would imagine they now realise they made prats of themselves and are filled with shame. Their joke didn't go down well and they would rather this TED video hadn't been made, and that it was all long forgotten.
Yet, no, this video wasn't made to laugh and rage at them even more after securing an already good victory... It was made to make a point. A point about labeling people or psychos or something... I forget... The point is Jon Ronson wouldn't enjoy digging his teeth in and making them suffer more. He's doing this all for a noble message.
I just remember that smug guy in the middle and have a desire to see him get slapped across the face by Tyrion Lannister... That bearded bloke on the left too.
"That's bizarre..."
Yeah.
I love the way he gives the DSM no respect at all. Brilliant!
I think those academics need to pull their head out of their mutual bubble and deal with the real world once in a while.
I like this guy
All of this could be easily solved with one law suit.
TED audience notoriously under applauding more solid humor
I find it interesting that those men seem to think people don't have the right to use their actual name as a twitter handle (as doing so makes them dodgy) unless they're a "brand" but they think they have the right to use a stranger's picture without permission on the profile of their spam bot with the same name which was clearly intended to embarrass/irritate. They come across as arrogant, prentious, weirdos
That guy has an advanced degree in gaslighting. I am not sure I have ever seen such an obvious case. What creeps, their scary smiles and chuckles.
You'd think he'd mention the fact that their bot was using his face when they claimed he didn't own his name.
Not even real academics- he was a student in the theatre studies-and certainly gaslighting him. I wonder what his personal life is like
I just searched Luke Robert Mason on youtube... Dude is using his real name too!
Pssst it’s brand management.
I love the "infomorph" bullshit... that's some grade A bull shit right there.
I'm not mad, it's just the rest of the world has a BAAAD ATTITUDE.
Seriously though, I'd have pointed out they were attempting to gaslight their way out of an obvious wrongdoing, and threatened to retaliate in kind, employing students to run the most unsettling twitter accounts in history, purporting to be them if they didn't delete the account immediately, and if they objected at any point, I'd have said how strange I found it that they wanted to attack my beautiful creations, how insecure they were being about it, and reassured them that nobody thought it was really them, because nobody uses their real name on twitter.
Is this The New Monty Python?
This is extremely manipulative behavior.
Manipulative to the point the behavior could technically fall under at least one diagnosis in the DSM, ironically enough.
Hero.
Jon...you are ah Phenominal being.
Your thoughts and perspectives move me.
To think, to laugh, to feel, to pontificate
You humble nature
Your strength
You are ah modern day warrior
Of the mind
Ah heroe
You are ah heroe