Hardtail vs Gravel Bike: Conclusion!
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2018
- This video is my final one in the series of Hardtail vs Gravel Bike. The series focuses on comparing a hardtail mountain bike (and a full suspension cross country mountain bike, for that matter) to a gravel bike for purposes of riding on gravel/dirt roads.
Other videos in the series:
Kickoff video:
• Hardtail vs Gravel Bike
Time trial test:
• Hardtail vs Gravel Bik...
Gearing:
• Hardtail vs Gravel Bik... - Sport
2 years later and this makes even more sense.
I have a "few" bikes but my "ultimates" are based on 29ers the best of all being a crazy rigid based on a 2013 Giant XTC. You can check it out here: defaultbiker.blogspot.com/2020/07/because-build-story.html?m=1
I sold my gravel bike and bought a hard tail. Gravel was great but love the versatility of the the hard tail. I do more mixed terrain where the mountain bike makes more sense. Bottom line is both are great, just a personal preference.
what did you get?
Another thing we have to consider is how accessible is an actual mountain trail. That's why I sold a hardtail and bought a gravel after a very long consideration...so unfortunate heh
i agree with you, especially in Arizona
Gravel bike is pretty fast on the road, though. I went on a group ride with my touring bike (similar to a gravel bike in most ways) , out of which 40km were gravel and macadame, and 44km was road. Blew past all the MTBs on the road, then they'd overtake me offroad. So if you're looking for riding on the road as well, the gravel bike has some advantage in speed and comfort there.
In terms of time spent riding:
Gravel > Road > Singletrack - Gravelbike
Singletrack > Gravel > Road - Hardtail
Road > Gravel > Single - Road plus bike
great, I've never heard of road plus before and have to keep 4 more tabs open for another month xD
I have both (gravel bike and XC mountain hardtail), and I go back and forth all the time on which is my favorite. First, I don't ride in groups, couldn't care less about speed, and ride a wide variety of terrain from paved roads to technical single track, and everything in between, usually on long rides (like back country tours). My take is that the XC mountain bike will certainly do more without going "white knuckle." I do take the gravel bike on intermediate mountain bike trails, but no doubt it is limited compared to the XC mountain bike in what it will do and not do well. Then again, riding the gravel bike on a technically challenging trail can certainly be more fun and challenging. With the XC, it just bombs through whatever... not so on the gravel bike. You have to be way more aware of your line. I do like the wider tires and front shock on the XC mountain bike. The gravel bike can beat you to death on rough gravel, rough dirt, rocky or washboard roads. The mountain bike just bombs through it. On the other hand, I like the variety of hand positions on the gravel bike and the light and lively feel of riding it, compared to the XC.
Bottom line, though, is that if I had to choose only one, it would have to be the XC mountain bike. It's just at home in a wider variety of riding conditions all the way from pavement to black diamond MTB single track. As I said, I don't care about top speed. Going fast is not a priority for me. If it were, I might reassess which I'd keep if I could only have one.
I sold my hardtail for a gravel bike and couldn't be happier. I bought a 29er wheelset and run 45c knobbies on trails and use my 700c wheelset for the pavement and gravel. Obviously there are limitations to a gravel bike on the trails especially the more extreme the terrain, but here in the midwest, this bike can handle just about anything the trails have to offer. I am just as fast if not faster due to a much lighter bike and newer/better components. Of course having multiple bikes for different terrain is ideal, but for those of us who are on a tight budget, a gravel bike is a great option.
This is what i am considering, thanx.
The fastest bike on the last Dirty Kanza race was a 29er Specialized Epic Fully with drop bars and gravel tires. ;)
@@DilbertMuc So in reality no longer a mountain bike but a monstercross
@@michaeldennis2630 No, a fully with Gravel Tires. A monster cross has full-sized MTB tires like the Ghost Road Rage for instance.
@@DilbertMuc Missed the fully part but still with drop bars no longer a mountain bike in my opinion.
Super, super useful for deciding between the two, and what to keep in mind! Thanks a lot! (for all the videos on this topic)
Thanks Clint. Going on one-year road trip in 4 months, and was agonizing over bringing the gravel bike or mtb. This video made up my mind.
I used a fat bike on a gravel grinder event. Wrong tool for the job but it was so fun and so comfortable. I honestly feel like if you don't have the space for all the bikes, a cross country hardtail with a 2x is the best way to go. 100%
christopher.unruh I have a gravel wheelset for my fat bike. 29” wheelset with 50mm gravel tires. Works well.
If you had to choose between a road bike and a gravel bike -> choose the gravel bike.
If you had to choose between a mountain bike and gravel bike -> choose the mountain bike.
If you had to choose between a road bike and a mountain bike -> choose the mountain bike.
If you don’t have to choose, buy all three 😃
@AG Coarseman trust me no
@AG Coarseman I am glad that you like your gravel bike! I have one too (38mm tyres) and the first year it felt very comfortable. It's fun to race mountainbikes and road bikes but there is a limit for gravel bike. Rough gravel roads or longer trips (5-8 hours) were very uncomfortable and I had a lot of pain in the back. So I think for these types a Mtb with a fixed carbon fork will be better.
@AG Coarseman yeah this is true it is faster and more fun this is correct ! Every bike has its pros and cons. And the gravel bike looks sexier too than a mtb :)
"pain in the back" this is bad bike fitting
@Jan Rucki how do i find a bike that fits good? I think my bike is a size to small but still feels to big for me^^ How can I PN you?
Nice comparison !! One thing I would like to add. On a mountainbike you can get more comfy, and way more aero, on higher speeds by using inner-bar ends. I use a pair of SQ Labs 411R’s, they are small and light but do wonders in making your bike more versatile. You can even operate the brakes when your hands rest on them.
The most versatile bike for me has been my hybrid bike. It is slap bang in the middle of a road bike and a mountain bike.
I managed to get round the multiple hand positions using butterfly style handlebars.
Great video and now a subscriber.
You told me in the first 1 min 30 seconds what I've Been trying to figure out for a week now. Thanks
@Steve King I’m in a very specific situation and you probably shouldn’t base your opinion upon mine. Why? Well I’m at retirement age so that should tell you something. Lol Also in my area on the coast there aren’t many mountains or even hills really. Based on this I should go gravel but I don’t want to be leaning over with the under handles and sand can be an issue. Also I want to try a hardtail mountain bike simply to learn some of the bike techniques folks do. I haven’t purchased anything yet because my dealer can’t get any Marin or Specialized mountain bikes in. I didn't know much about gravel bikes prior to this. Good Luck
I had this dilemma too! And I chose a hardtail mountainbike with 2 wheelsets. I have the factory wheelset and I bought another Supra wheelset with gravel tires on it. For me this is the perfect bike all round. I commute on it, I ride trails pretty hard on it and I can ride gravel roads and a little street on it.
Since I live in the Netherlands, which is a flat country I don't really feel the need for a full suspension bike. For now this is the setup for me!
Anyway, great video as always.
Could you share pics with each wheelsets?
Great advice! I have been floundering around with changing my current bike or replacing it and you logically lined out all the pro and con for me. Thanks.
Superb, dead-honest insight! THANKS.
Nice one clint. Because of your video on plus tyres, I found my sweet spot mtbike that I use on trails and long epic rides here in the metropolis of Philippines where most roads have imperfections and potholes.
I have a gravel bike and a Jones Bike (rigid MTB). During the winter the MTB serves as my all around bike because I just don't feel as cold riding it. Something about the upright body posture and not extending the arms to expose the armpits. Also, if roads are snowy or icy an MTB provides more stability. So I would add winter riding as another use of MTB on gravel. Great series, Clint. Thanks!
Your first point on 0:34 was spot on! The exact reason why I will be swapping my gravelbike (currently only bike) for a MTB + roadie.
The gravelbike's capabilities are limited on trails or rough terrain, whereas a MTB on gravel is perfectly fine, just a bit slower.
Thanks Clint. I decided to just buy a separate gravel wheel/tire combo set for my 2021 Fathom 29 1 MTB for when I want to ride around the pavement/gravel.
I live near the Franklin Mountains so I have the luxury of some fun MTB trails.
Most of us don’t have the funds for for 2 dedicated bicycles so this is makes sense for me.
I got into cycling a few years ago through gravel riding and didn't want to believe this assessment... I just bought a hardtail and it makes sense for a lot of the "gravel" routes I have available nearby (medium size city in the PNW). Oh well, now I have two bikes...
This serie was great Clint! Maybe do an updated version of XC vs Trail bike? Because we really would like to see it
I ride a Trek X-Cal 29er hardtail with a 2x10 drivetrain and Continental XC Kings 2.25 tires. On the long gravel grinders we have in OH, I love it. We have alot of logging roads, and I'm not the best at descending, so this works great for me. I can open the fork, and feel more confident. This set up works for me. And I never spin out.
Thoughtful and even handed presentation, Clint. Thank you. I'm a 73 year old guy and have been riding for decades. For me, The XC MTB with 2x has been an all-around joy. I can do the trails around Santa Cruz (maybe a little more carefully than the guys on big enduros), but I can also motor on the roads when the weather has washed everything out.
I want to add the geezer's perspective. You're doing a lot to help people get the most out of riding. My career was as a San Francisco cop. Cycling (including racing), off-duty kept me sane in that crazy job. The wise presentations you offer are going to help a lot of folks get through this life a little easier because they've got this sport. S___ happens, but getting on a bike can really help even out a lot of angst. Keep doing your great work
Thanks for the encouragement. Hearing that people are benefiting from the work it takes to do these videos with a full-time job really helps. Ride on!
I came back to this video and it’s interesting to see how much has changed in opinions over the years. I have a gravel bike for faster road riding with wide tires, but I also had a 29er hardtail built up with wiiiiide 750mm drop handlebars. It doesn’t feel as fast on road obviously but it can hold up and once I hop on trails it’s tons of fun 😬
Great video,
Your spot on about the hills vs flats.. i went for a ride the other day on my hardtail and passed some triathlete club riders going uphill and sure enough they passed me on the flats and then i would catch up to them and pass them on the hills.
I have a 42 t crankset and it works ok.
There are alternative to drop bars the best being Jones Hbar. Great video and you are giving me one more reason to get rid of my two road bikes
I have to say i'm really looking forward to your review of your new Niner FS XC bike, mostly for info on that new fox 34 step cast!
Gotta love the versatility of an MTB, plus on paved segments those wide tires really get your heartrate up lol. Even so, gravel bikes sure are cool!
Thanks for the great video! Currently I am stuck with the choice - I have a trail full-suspension bike and a 27.5 hardtail. I switched the fork on the hardtail to rigid I and that was the best upgrade I made. I ride my hardtail basically on the gravel roads without riding trails (as I mentioned I have a trail bike to do it). So now I am thinking about switching to gravel bike but with wide tires (e.g. Salsa Journeyman). But still I am not sure should i do it or just buy hardtail with 29 wheels.
Thanks, answered all my questions Ive been wondering about.
Steve King Hardtail. Prefer flat bar handlebars and a bit more aggressive riding on single track.
Thank you for this video. I would like to point out that in your 3rd drawback (handlebars), What I did is add a set of clip-on Aero bars by profile design. I don't really ride mountain trails with this bike but rather "rail-trails" that are flat and straight. My bike is a budget dual-sport and I'm about to swap the front suspension for rigid CARBON forks, 33c gravel king tires and Latex inner tubes. My goal is, as-you mentioned, keep up with the group on their gravel bikes. I found myself dropping back and really wiped out tired at the end. So...I need to shed weight. This should be about 5lbs ! But I do like the upright position, straight handlebars and comfort vs my usual Road bike that is "aero".
Agree a lot of people talk or think that you can simply ride gravel bike on mtb trails.
You realy help me with your video. I had to make decision between xc hardtail and gravel bike. We have a lot of mountains ashpahlt roads and all kind of gravel roads. For this part gravel would be nuts. But since we have a lot of single trails on top and on downhills of this mountain I will go for gravel.
Ty for your good reviews.
I use hardtail (winter bike) + road bike (summer bike). As such the gravel bike does sound interesting as a single-bike solution, but diversification into niches is better.
Hello Clint! José here from São Paulo, Brazil. I recently, 2 months ago, bought a MTB to be a hybrid bike. I have a road bike, Cervelo R3, which I use only for training on the asphalt on the bike path in São Paulo.
I liked and agree with your opinion about the good versatility of a hardtail MTB. My MTB is a Brazilian Audax ADX 100, which I bought to have fun in the city (asphalt) and if I want, I can also go on weekend rides on dirt roads or trails. Important upgrades that I did and am doing on my MTB ADX 100: I changed the tires, the 29 x 2.20 with high studs came out and 700x42 Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss Ready gravel tires came in. These are a little narrower tires with very low studs, but they are ideal for rolling around in the city with bad asphalt, giving good speed and also taking a dirt road. I also changed the groupset, leaving the Shimano Alivio 2x9 speed and entering a Shimano Deore 1x12 speed. And yes, MTB continued with suspension because we have many imperfections in Brazilian asphalt.
I live in a hilly enough area (Seattle) that top speed gearing is less of an issue since there are a lot less long flat sections around. That said, my hardtail and gravel bike are about the same weight and even with skinny (1.9") tires on the hardtail, the gravel bike is more fun if it's nothing more rigorous than an unpaved road. Great video, really has me thinking about what to do when it comes time to upgrade from my entry level GT Grade (2x9) and my resto-modded 1994 Rocky Mountain Equipe hardtail (1x10).
The right answer is always N+1 if you can afford it. I'm on my second gravel bike now and both have been very versatile, especially wth a extra road wheelset. Riding gravel roads and dirt/gravel bike path stuff, commuting, group road rides, making easy singletrack more fun just for something different, kid hauling, etc.
Now, if you want to go fast on an XC MTB one might watch videos about the bikes in the Cape Epic. One of the fastest, Burry Stander (RIP), had a 2x10 Crankset with 42/26. There wasn't a spinning out at downhill and they were on many gravel roads faster than most gravel bikes.
I don't know why 1x11 or 1x12 is promoted now so heavily. Weight savings are marginal with those pizza sized monster cassettes and the gaps between gears just can't be smoothly filled compared to a 2x10 or 2x11 with little incremental gear steps.
Or maybe it is just marketing and the single chainring is heavily promoted to get folks forking out new cash in a saturated market.
DilbertMuc agree 100%. Drives me nuts when I can’t find the right cadence due to big gear jumps.
Because 1x12 covers the same range as 2x10 maybe?
2x/3x has a massive chain drop rate. 1x has basically zero chain drop rate.
I converted my hard tail in my profile to SRAM 1x. And yes I hate the big gear jump. Not the same as the 2x. I wish that big pizza cassette would have intermediate gears. But no that does not exist. Bummer.
90% of dropped chains associated with front derailleurs are due to poor adjustment of the front derailleur. The solution to this is simple - either learn how to actually work on your bike or find a better mechanic to wrench your bike. Front derailleurs work quite effectively as chain guides and in the event that you do drop your chain usually you can just shift, keep pedaling and insto-presto your chain is back in action. Without getting your hands dirty or even getting off of your bike. 1x systems are overwhelmingly hype. The bike industry needs to hype stuff up every few years to keep selling stuff. 1x and gravel are a few examples of latest greatest hype of the past few years.
Clint, I just rode my first gravel race, the DirtyKanza Lite (50mile), exactly like you described. I bought a Lynskey MT27.5 in the fall and spec'ed it out with the 2X drivetrain (36/26 front) as I knew I could not afford 2 bikes and would use it for gravel also. I had my local shop build me another set of wheels and mounted up some WTB resolutes in 650BX42 on the stock rims with an 11-40 cassette. These make a huge difference in speed and efficiency. When swapping wheels I do have to re-align the brakes and the derailleur. I rode with standard sag on the fork (Fox 32) and ran the lockout at about 1/3 open. There were a couple of hills that I dropped it into the weenie chaingring and hammered past the drop bars, who did then re-catch me on the flats. On the last 10 miles or so we had a 20-25mph headwind and I really wished for drop bars. I had contemplated some clip on aero bars just for another hand position and better efficiency at higher speeds, I should have followed through on that idea. I passed quite a few drop bar guys that day and managed to finish mid pack. The riding position of the hardtail is very comfortable for long distances.
November Bicycles makes disc rotor shims so that you don't have to re-align your calipers for every wheelset
I have both and if I could only have 1 it would be the mtb. So many trails where I live that are technical. The suspension also makes it so much more comfortable for all day riding (dropper post also helps switch up positions so I can lean back when I feel like it). The biggest reason I still use my gravel bike though is the weight. 14lbs lighter. It makes a huge difference when keeping up with a pack. Also getting into the sport it is far cheaper and can help build your endurance. Both are excellent and get plenty of use so get whichever one your group uses because if you have people to ride with you will ride more often.
My requirements for a new allround bike would be more in the veins of being as fast as possible and then also some offroad capability to go on a discovery tour without having to worry too much about the terrain. So, my preferred allrounder would be the Gravel Bike. That said, I might buy a mountain bike later on if I feel like taking on some really gnarly terrain or jumps or something like that.
Recently switched from a gravel bike to a hardtail. Def the way to go! The suspension alone turned me into a believer. Higher bottom bracket, better pedal strike clearance are just a plus.
I guess it depends on what you ride.. We primarily are roads, gravel, dirt and some singletrack. I wouldn't want to take a hardtail out on a long road ride. ect
I'm thinking to convert my Giant XTC hardtail (100mm travel shock) to a flatbar gravel bike. Any recommendation for an Overdrive 2 rigid fork?
I am solving this by a jones H bar handlebar for hand positions on a hardtail. I am concerned with how small a tire I can go with my salsa woodsmoke. It recommends 2.4". I wonder if I can go with a 50 mm gravel with an i23 rim?
Put 30 miles on my Scott Scale 970 yesterday. Mostly trails but about 10 miles of paved. I swapped out to WTB venture 50 mm tires earlier this year. Had Rocket Ron’s they were much slower. Also changed out the bars. Up and back about 30 cm and about 40mm less width. Works ok for me so far.
Hi Clint - Thank you for posting these. Ive been trying to work out which I should go for and this might have helped a bit. I have a Remedy 8 which I use for Park/Enduro rides and I’m looking for a more hill claimer as my Remedy swings around a lot when I try use it up hills. So Ive been considering either a Trek Checkpoint SL5 (Gravel) or a Procalibar 9.6 (Hardtail). I want to use the bike for long trips on/off road (Wildness tracks), race events and road riding around town. I think the Hardtail is the way to go but then is it too close to my Remedy?
The hardtail will be miles apart from the remedy in terms of handling and feel, IMO.
Good summary and comparison, thanks!
I got a Christmas/retirement gift of a Trek XCaliber 9 this past December, returning to riding after 30+ years. My intention was mostly trails, some roads (mostly to get to trails). I took the bike mostly stock, but switched to Schwalbe Big Apple 29x2.35 tires, for "most surfaces" (getting rid of the knobbies).
The tires have worked well on a variety of surfaces, including rotten pavement, compacted shell/clay beachside trails, pea-and-larger gravel trails, as well as, of course, pavement and nicely groomed quarry dust trails. Didn't do well in some muddy spots, and this week I hit a wind-blown deep sand patch covering a paved trail (beachside) that I got a little wobbly on going at speed.
You comments on hand impacts are very timely. I'm seriously considering upgrading to something like Ergon GP3 or GP4 grips to replace the stock grips, as I'm getting some in-ride numbness as my range continues to extend. I am wearing padded gloves. I'm thinking the inward-pointing "horns" for the GP5 are too much, though.
Being a big guy (I'm down 28lbs since January, helped by riding), sleek aerodynamics and top speed aren't (yet) a big concern. On extended flats and with moderate-paced groups, I'm doing OK with the stock 2x11 gearing on the X Caliber. We'll see, maybe by next season (I'm in NJ) if my progress forces some changes there. I used to, back in the day, ride a Fuji Touring Series 4 with both lower and higher gearing than the X Caliber, and can see the differences. But OK so far.
Keep up the good work. I'm enjoying your videos and commentary.
This series is outstanding. Today's discussion on bars is excellent. Do you have any advice on how to estimate the chain length to purchase to accompany a 38 tooth front chain ring in lieu of your 30 or 34 tooth chain ring when you want a little more speed for a flat gravel ride with your mountain bike?
Typically you would just buy a new chain and then cut it down to your needed length. I show this at about 7:15 in this video:
czcams.com/video/TpHhJtW8aPA/video.html
I love your perspective Clint and your qualifiers based on goals. Really good stuff. Do you ever crank out a triathlon or xterra race?
I would love to do a triathlon, except I don't like running or swimming 😉. I stick to cycling since it is so diverse in and of itself.
Thanks for the video. It helps with my decision with which bike to buy. The hard tail mountain bike wins for the things I want to do.
Clint, Regarding 2 sets of wheels on a mtn bike, it is my understanding the brakes have to be adjusted with each switch. Time and expertise. Plus I would think after awhile the axles could be compromised. Instead of drop bars, I have seen guys just put aero bars on. Thanks
Thanks , good video. My first super bike was a softtail mtb with 1.9" tyres. It is very good on gravel, and I changed the frontcogs to 28-38-48 (26"wheels) to make it fast on tarmac. Nice go everywhere bike. How I read you Gibbs, you tell us that its nice to have a bike that is good for the difficult end of your riding conditions.
'
Therfore I compare gravel bikes to roadbikes. The gravelbike is the heavy duty roadbike. Supernice on asphalt and gravel.
Planning on a 27.5 hardtail with rigid fork and two wheelsets. One for mountain and the second - 29" wheels with gravel or semi slicks. I like the idea of a flat bar, street/hybrid bike but there's really nothing out there w/mtb geometry in carbon that looks good. The exceptions are Niner RDO rigid fork, Trek SS, etc., but these are still designed for mtb tires. The problem with 29er gravel/semi-slick conversion is any tire width under 50mm begin to look anemic. For a 27.5 frame, 27.5x2.35 tires and 700c/29" wheels w/40mm gravel tires are very close in overall tire diameter and they don't much lower the BB ground clearance or increase the gap between rear tire and seat tube like they would on a 29er frame. 40mm tires may still look a little anemic but a 27.5 HT frame just accomadates the conversion better than a 29er, clearance-wise.
For long distance gravel on mtb, how about putting a jones bar on? Worked great for me, cheaper than converting to a monstercross.
would a longer stem be better than a short stem on a hard tail mtb set up for gravel?
Thanks Clint! Enjoy your vids.
Mountain bikes are just the best! They can do it all! I'll happily sacrifice speed on the road if it means I can take the bike anywhere else.
MTBs are heavy and very expensive
@@jantube358 Good gravel bikes are just as expensive as good hardtail XC mountain bikes. Now, if you are talking about weight... yes, a really LIGHT XC MTB is going to be more expensive than a good gravel bike with similar weight. I'd say for the 22 - 25 pound range you're looking at about maybe $1900 for a gravel and $2900 for an XC MTB (for instance, a Trek Checkpoint gravel vs a Scott Scale 910 XC MTB). But if you are not being a weight weenie, prices are similar for decent quality gravel and XC MTB. (for instance, Trek Checkpoint gravel and Trek X Caliber XC MTB)
@@christocr Suspension fork, dropper post and bigger tyres make 95% of that weight difference. So it`s a functional difference. Changing those components on an XC bike moves it into gravel territory weight-wise.
@@christocr How would factor in maintenance cost?
@@jantube358 My Canyon Lux weights 23.5 lbs with pedals, a dropper post and Sealant in both tires. Do you consider that heavy for a MTB?
I sold my race bike for a gravel with schwalbe G-Ones and couldn’t be happier. Much better for urban ride on my way out to the countryside (cobbles roads, potholes, dead bodies etc) and I just stick to tracks , avoid the hills. I still have the hard trail and use Jones Bars......completely different experience.
Clint what do you recommend for dirty kanza, I have a Niner air 9 and though Id just put some 38 maxis ramblers and some aero bars and bar ends to get lower.. I dont doe a whole lot of gravels races so I thought the hard tail but i also dont want to be out there for 3 extra hours. Thoughts?
I've never done the races so I can only speak from what I think would work. JOM from gravel cyclist has done it three times so I would check out www.gavelcyclist.com as well. If you are running a fairly like wheelset with gravel tires like 38 or 40 c tires I don't think you're going to be much slower as far as weight is concerned. The main thing is aerodynamics. Being on a flat mountain bike bar I would definitely think you would want to use an aero bar if you can. I don't use them and that position is too low for me but if you can do it then it would work. The other thing you need to think about is hand position. One thing nice about drop bars on road and gravel bikes is the multiple hand positions. I would think you would at least want to get some bar ends for your mountain bike bars. Those are my thoughts. Good luck!
It could be interesting to compare a gravel bike which comes from the "road" side and a trekking/turing bike i.e. hybrid bike as a nearest approach from the "mountain" side to the "road" side.
If a rigid fork is installed on a hybrid bike then we have almost the same wheels, tires, gearing on both bikes but different rider positions.
If you start to adapt a XC hardtail to gravel, you will first get a hybrid bike "unless" you replace your frame and handlebar.
I am living in a flat country (the Netherlands). I am new to cycling and currently completed my first 750km on my hardtail (btwin rockrider 340). I used that bike because it is cheap and I wanted to see if the hobby would stick to me. Now I am starting to like it and want to upgrade my bike. I am riding around 70% on road and 30% singletrails and fireroads.
I am thinking about getting the trek marlin 7 because that is still a fairly cheap bike and it gives me the option to lock out the front suspension to safe some energy on flat roads. Anybody got some tips for a new strava user and a new rider? Btw I cycle to lose weight and get in shape for my wedding end 2021
Completely agree and well explained.
Great vlog, thanx.
Here’s a bike in between the 2 trek marlin 5 2021. 2.0 inch tires, 3x gearing with 42 chainring max. Cross country geometry, capable enough but would be more suited towards gravel, things can always be changes on a mtb to make it more road suitable such as dropped bars, skinner tires, cut bars.
That all makes good sense. Bikes have become more specialised in the past few years, which in one way is a good thing but it means you need more than one bike if you do different types of riding. My gripe is that the MTB has become too specialised, with a lack of top-end gearing. My most regular bike is an old-style hard-tail MTB which is good for most conditions and will do things a gravel bike can’t. I can also use it for touring. It’s now 17 years old, and rather than pension it off I’ve given it a really good service and have ordered a new suspension fork because the original is now merely a fork. If I was thinking about a new bike, instead of gravel I would get a modern touring bike with a belt drive and Rohloff hub. And yes, it is expensive, but not so bad when you think of years of lower maintenance costs and time spent with oily fingers.
I’m looking to buy a hardtail mountain bike right now. Budget is $600. So far I’ve narrowed it down to the Giant Talon 4. Any other suggestions?
I’ve just sold my carbon trek super fly 9.6 hard tail in favour of my trek checkpoint SL6. Reason behind this was the type of riding I do on these 2 bikes. It’s mainly canal toe paths single track and gravel roads. If I want to do anything more adventurous off road I use my trek fuel ex8. That just leaves road riding I use a trek emonda sl6 pro during summer then gear up gravel bike for winter road riding and fuel for off road.
I couldn’t do road winter riding on my super fly so tue checkpoint is more versatile option .
Thanks Clint, I appreciate the hard tail mountain bike a lot more now that you stated It's multi purpose value... Thanks...👍
I saw on GMBN that locking out your shock for an extended time can damage the shock. Do you have information on that?
I’ve heard that before as well and I don’t ever lock out a shock on the trail, only on the road.
My last Cyclocross/gravel bike I had fit 27.5 x 2.0 tires. Recently I bought a Giant Toughroad SLR GX, which is a drop bar Adventure Bike that can fit 700x50mm/29x2in MTB tires. I'm amazed with how well the tires roll over obstacles and hold momentum. I had a 29er hardtail in the past but since my knowledge of bikes has improved over time I can actually get a lot more out of my bike than I was able to in the past.
How you finding the Toughroad? i'm thinking about the SLR GX 0 version for winter work commutes and bikepacking. Or i will buy a Jamis Renegade frame and a SRAM Rival gravel build kit (ritchey components) and build it up. both similar cost just trying to decide what to do.
It all depends on what you value out of your bike. The Toughroad can fit 29x2.0in tires due to the wider fork and the long 450mm Chainstays. The Renegade will be lighter and a little faster to accelerate, however you're limited to 700x40mm or 650x47mm depending on what you pick. Also the Toughroad uses quick release instead of thru axles if that's a main concern for you.
However for me, the only thing I cared about was the tire clearance and I liked the fact that it was QR so I could use my other wheels with the bike as well.
I'm using a Giant Rapid at the moment as my do all. I do a good bit of bikepacking and a gravel bike would be much better for that. Last year was a bad winter so I couldn't get on my bike as much as previous years. I am looking for something with larger tyres to handle trips and bad weather to keep myself on the road all year as that pissed me off last year. Hadn't thought of quick release assumed they would both be (only ever used QR in the past) agreed the Renegade would be faster. An issue for me with the Giant is my country 'Scotland' for some reason beyond me Giant UK don't stock the toughroad fenders or mobility stand built for it, yet the sell the bike. Not sure what fenders I could run on it etc since it's large 50mm tyres. Let me know if you have fitted any. and thanks for getting back to me.
If you already use QR then the Toughroad will be fine fro your needs. Also I did a quick search and Planet bike has a 29 x 65mm fender set that would work with this bike. Any 29er fenders along those sizes or smaller should fit no problem, and the downtube fender is also easily removable if you're adding full length fenders instead.
Dude very helpful much appreciated. Planet X is a cool company so will check those out. Thanks for the advice man and happy travels with your Toughroad.
Great video and good to see some real sense instead of the usual "Gravel bike is the only bike you'll ever need!" tripe. It *could* be the only bike you need if you ride certain types of routes primarily, but that's pretty much the same for anything.
I think every type of bike has a range of terrain it can realistically be ridden on and of course between bike types there is definite overlap. I do also agree that your average trail or XC specced hard tail probably has the largest range of versatility which can be further increased just by using different tyres.
As someone who primarily mountain bikes, I don't expect a gravel bike to do everything I want. But various cycling disciplines have tempted me the past few years, and I finally decided to buy a Trek Checkpoint, and am currently waiting on it. I feel like having a trail oriented mtb and a gravel bike will provide the best range of use for me, with the gravel bike being something I can use to dip my toes in CX, road riding, and obviously gravel racing, while the mountain bike will take me down pretty much any trail I want. Not to mention, I used to have a 90s hybrid that I rode on XC trails, and frankly it was a lot of fun!
I took a hard tail replaced the suspension fork with a carbon and changed the gearing to a 3 ring crank and 8 speed casset running 2.0 hybrid tires keept the bars, dropper post and hydrologic brakes I ride hilly trails and country roads in Japan ..perfect fit!
could you post a picture mate... thanks
hurlburt808 agreed. 3x. I have an old 3x9 groupset 44-22 in front, 36-11 in back. Works really well.
You might get laughed at but if you want to get the speed out of a XC bike you can put on aero bars. Many gravel racers use them (when allowed) on long courses and I think you can get a pretty similar position with an aggressive XC bike setup. I typically ride with forearms on the bars for when I’m taking a road to get to a trail. In which case, it’s just the tires slowing me down as I can get my back almost flat and arms are almost together
Clint, have you ever had any issues with carbon bikes breaking? Since you seem to ride carbon bikes almost exclusively, whether it be a CC bike or a FS mountain bike, do you feel safe on them? Thanks.
I've never had a carbon frame break. There was a bike that I sold to a guy that developed the hairline crack. We worked with Niner and got it warrantied. That was the only issue I've ever had.
Hi Clint,
Food for thought, all bikes are on a spectrum. I'm currently using a Trek Crockett as a Gravel Bike but also a Road Bike while my main one is being fixed. A Mountain Bike would be worse for me because of the slot it can't fill (it's too far on the gnarly side of the spectrum
Putting on some slicks takes 5 mins.
Single speed?
I use 29er hardtail xc bike to cover gravel roads. The modifications I make for long gravel roads are
1. Rigid carbon fork
2. Narrow tires (1.5)
3. Add a mini aero bar on my flat bar (if appropriate)
With these modifications, I can be as fast as a gravel bike on gravel roads
Would like to see pics of both setups
@@brian.louis107 would love to send you one! But I am currently stranded in Cape Town, SA under lockdown for 2 months.
Unable to get a flight back home (to South Korea).
@@brian.louis107 basically I have a Moots ybb 26er soft tail xc bike.
The mini TT handlebar I use is
www.controltechbikes.com/products/item/223.html
Mounted on my flat bar.
My rigid carbon fork is a very old one. Carbon tubing with aluminum crown at the top. There are many full carbon forms for mtb these days. One must choose the right height so that the geometry is close to when it was using intended suspension fork.
Last but not least, a lightweight narrower tires with very short knobs
I have an XC race bike (2019 Canyon Lux Race Team), a 2014 custom Specialized Camber, and a 2016 Diamobdback Mission Pro. I find that I can cover 95% of riding fairly efficiently with these three bikes.
The Lux both has a dual remote lockout for road transfers, then when I get to the trails I can unlock and have 4" of travel front and rear. The Camber isn't as fast or efficient as the Lux, BUT it's more comfortable for slightly technical trails with 5" of travel front and rear. The Mission Pro is perfect for when things start getting rocky, steep or really technical with 6" of travel front and rear.
A gravel bike would be faster on the roads and buffed out smooth trails, but for me it wouldn't be nearly as fun or comfortable without suspension or a dropper. A full blown DH bike would be faster for super steep technical trails, but wouldn't be nearly as efficient pedaling up hill or when the trail flattens out a bit. I'm happy with my three bike combo and will prob keep it this way for a while.
You can put aero bars on a MTBto get more aero and to have another hand position . I did that with my hybrid bike for a while before I got my proper gravel bike. Looks silly, but it worked well.
Great video. I currently ride a XC hardtail in the summer, and I've been looking at gravel bikes. I'm torn between a trail thrasher and going faster. It's a tough decision. If I had millions I'd probably buy every kind of bike to go along with my XC and my fatty
I think you hit it on the head with your comment about living in a more mountainous area. It depends on your local terrain. No one has gravel bikes where I live because the trails are too steep, gnarly or steep and gnarly. A gravel bike would be lethal on everything apart from the single track roads and canal tow path. Even the estate land rover tracks are rocky, muddy and pitted enough to require a bigger volume knobby tyre and suspension. I would consider replacing my road bike with a gravel bike though. Would give me more options for commuting.
I found that the place where you actually are forced to use deep profiled tyres is in sandy areas. You cant go without. In wet mudy areas its prefarable to have deep profiled tyres too but you can get away with less profile, in some instances its even better. For example if the wet mud contains high ammounts of clay. So it really depends on where you are going to bike, type of soil, weather, etc. But yeah id take an atb or semi atb over anything
barely used my MTB since getting a gravel bike, the gravel bike is so much better on the road and when it comes to off road it's good for everything but the most technical trails
I found I always ride my most expensive bike the most.
Previously I had a 400€ hardtail and 700€ gravel bike. Back then I rode about 60% gravel bike, 40% MTB.
Since getting a better MTB (~1300€ Hardtail) It's closer to 60% MTB and just 40% gravel bike.
I even changed a few things on the gravel bike to make it more like a road bike so I use it more often.
One big point is that if you ride more on tarmac, commuting etc. then gravel bike is better. You can put some all-round tires like with more slick pattern in the middle and some knobs on the sides of tire, like Teravail Cannonball , Specialized Trigger, Donnelly Strada USH, Schwalbe G-One All-round etc. and then go on gravel, tarmac, some sand and mud or just tour.
Very informative analysis Clint! I have a road bike, a full suspension mountain bike and a 29” XC hardtail with 100mm travel, 10-50t cassette & 2.3” XC tyres.
The road bikes couldn’t bring me to gravel roads, the full suspension is a pain to ride 20km to a trail and back, and the hardtail can do both but not the best and most efficient. Therefore makes me want to add a gravel bike.
I converted the hardtail front suspension fork into a rigid fork and wow it’s pretty nice to ride, and you are spot on that the speed of the Hardtail MTB is the limitation as I’m using a 1x system 34t chainring. And I have ordered a 38t chainring and I think I’m gonna love riding the rigid fork hardtail mtb with the XC tyres.
If I’m going to trails that are more than gravel, I intend to swop the wheelset of my hardtail with my full suspension mtb that has a 2.4” tyres with cushcore Tyre inserts. That will enable me to ride 20km on the road at reasonable speed with the tyres running at higher 40psi and upon reaching the trail, to run at low 15psi to compensate for the lack of front suspension on my hardtail mtb with rigid fork. And after the trail ride, pump up the Tyre pressure and ride the 20km home.
What do you think of that?
Sounds like a pretty good plan. Just forewarning the rigid fork is going to be pretty harsh on the trails, even with lower pressure in the tires. You don't realize how much a suspension fork provides until you arrive without one. But it will really work on your handling skills.
@@ClintGibbs yes understand and thanks for advice! this weekend I’m riding on a easier trail with little drops to try and understand more on the handling. Have put it a thicker ODI Rouge grip in anticipation of the harsher ride too other than setting a Low 13f/15r psi Tyre pressure
From what you are saying and from the research I`ve been doing, it seems like the hardtail mountain bike is more what I`m leaning towards instead of a gravel bike....hmmm
I changed the handlebar post to my Steel Air 9 single speed, I added a GRX derailleur, shifters add a 10 by 51 shimano xt cassette also change tires 3.1 Schwalbe for 50 mm = 1.96 and the other parts stay the same xtr cranks and xtr brakes . What I can say is that the bike feels very good and for now I wait for them to continue developing the gravel bikes because it seems to me that what is on the market is more focused on the street and does not work well on some slightly more difficult terrain. When this happens gravels will be like rally cars.💪
Great video - I'm in the market for a bike for fun rides around SoCal - maybe even a bikepacking overnight, and I seem to get pointed in two directions. I like the gravel bikes for their drop bars and possibly rack mounts, but do worry it will limit the trails I can use. I've seen others post bikepacking rigs with hardtail 29+ bikes and 3" tires, and I like the 1x for simplicity. Although I ride to work regularly, I haven't been out on the local trails much. I don't expect to join fast group rides or go gonzo downhill. I'm also happy to coast downhill on the road if I reach the limit of my gears.
So here's my question(s), I perked up when you started talking about adding drop bars to a hard-tail mountain bike, but the photos you inserted all had no-suspension front forks. I understand these might have started off as mountain bikes, but what would be different about these converted mountain bikes and a gravel bike if there's no front suspension fork? Would they really be more capable on rougher trails? Is the geometry or something about the wheels/tires they're rocking that makes the mountain bike a good starting point?
I've looked at a very road-like Fuji Jari 1.1 that had the 1x front, hydraulic disc brakes, carbon fork, drop bars and the extra dropouts for potentially bikepacking and 700c wheels. I know that's mostly stock, and I don't recall how wide of a tire I could put on that rig. This is the price range I'm in. I also looked at some Salsa bikes at a local shop that were interesting. A hardtail mountain bike is still a strong option in my mind, but I didn't think about replacing the fork if I was leaning towards more versatile with the MTB. Is the front suspension less important than I realize on the rougher trails?
Super stoked if you can provide any advice, and thanks for the video.
There is no reason why you could not put a suspension Fork on a monster cross bike. It sounds like a 29er hardtail frame with a suspension Fork and tires like the Maxxis Aspen would be a good all around bike for what you describe it. And it sounds like you're leaning towards a drop bars so that would make it pretty sweet monster cross bike.
high handlebars and front suspension do really help my hand numbness and wrist pain. fyi, my 30 year old steel rim brake 28mm tire road bike front fork yields much less road shock than my modern steel disc brake 42mm tire gravel bike. Gravel bike looked super cool, but I sold it because so rough on hands/wrists.
A 29er hard tail really is the go.anywhere bike and especially light if you go rigid forks. Two sets if wheels one set with slicks fitted, you can't go wrong. As a roadie and a MTBer if I had to choose one I'd take my 29er.
What's your geartrain setup? 1x? 2x?
Can u recommend some decent tires for road/gravel??
For me: hardtail for mountains / steep ups and downs in the East. Gravel bike for flatter terrain.
Sure, as simple
Steve King gravel is better for road use.
For a long gravel race such as dirty kanza, would you use a hard tail mountain bike?
No, I would use a gravel bike like my rlt.
I rode my CX bike on the Tour Aotearoa (Google it) and wished I had a hard tail. Of those who rode a hard tail, all were happy with them. Of those who rode CX bikes, about 1/3rd wouldn't use them again. I'll look for a 2x hard tail: any opinions, without spending a fortune?
I can highly recommend the conti race king 2.0 on mtb rims. It works excellent.
Can only agree. After changing to Race king 29x2.2 it was a massive difference in speed and required power
Ive got aero bars on my flat bar for long straights on road or smoother gravel. You use 20% less energy.
After riding several types, for me, it is hardtail over gravel. Just for comfort, I do not care about max speed. Just have two sets of wheels/tires and you have two bikes.
Well, you know that wider tires generally have lower rolling resistance than comparable thinner ones. I would keep the 2.2 tires and simply add 10-15 psi on the road and ur good to go. Also, the really fast XC tires like Schwalbe Thunder Burt, Conti Race King, Schwalbe Furious Fred or even Schwalbe Big One can be almost as fast as road tires. Sure not as aero but you can still easily average 30km/h if your decently fit. One note to the Big One:
It's Schwalbes fastest tire. By that i also included their road tires. Set up tubeless and pumped up to 60psi, they have less rolling resistance than most road tires
True, but as he said the faster you go the more important aerodynamics are. And 2.2 mtb tires are much less aero than any slimmer tire.
I absolutely agree on that since im a aerogeek myself. The thing is if you are into gravel bikes, aero isn't your top priority, as i might suspect. a 35mm gravel tire doesn't let any air attach properly to any modern rim. 23mm maybe(really maybe) 25mm are the tires when aero wheels actually work. So the diffrence between a gravel tire to a 2.2 MTB tire isn't all that much. Probably. Only my 2 cents
Newbie here: Is there some reason why I shouldn't just add an aerobar to my mountain bike in addition to a more slender tire set?
My personal opinion is that areo bars are just too dangerous on the trail. You can clip them on trees. But I've seen people like Todd Wells use them on Long endurance events like the Leadville 100. That ride is mainly dirt road. I wouldn't go narrower than 2. 2 inch tires. You lose grip and don't gain much speed benefit. Larger tires absorb bumps better and can actually be faster
Combine the two! I have a hardtail I am going to convert to drop bar - race spec XC 29er with 80mm fork and the geo is almost identical to the Chamois Hagar in my size except for the HA and the height of the BB/cockpit (same stack/reach/cockpit length etc).
he is spot on about using a 2x system too
A very enlightening series of videos. I was pondering for a while whether a gravelbike (or a cross bike) would suit my riding habits and purposes. As Clint pointed out, 35 mm tires still need plenty of pressure to be resilient enough on rough gravel - which I occasionally ride when in the mountains. The hardtail with 50 0r 56 mm tires is much more compliant and offers reserves when the going gets rough. Combine that with a tire with little rolloing resistance, like the Conti Race King I currently use, and it's clear that the hardtail can beat the gravel bike on its own terrain.
In conclusion, I'll stay with my light and very fast race hardtail and am happy to invest the 2k more wisely.