Flat Bar Gravel Bike Vs Drop Bar Mountain Bike
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2024
- Discover the unexpected results of a flat bar gravel bike and a hardtail drop bar bike - a cycling experiment like no other.
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Embark on a unique cycling journey as we swap bars between two distinct bikes to uncover which setup truly offers the best ride. From gravel roads to single tracks, this experiment challenges conventional wisdom and reveals surprising insights. Whether you're a seasoned cyclist or a newcomer, these findings could transform how you think about your bike setup. - Sport
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Since both stem lengths did not seem correct on both, you really should do again with proper stem length. Bit longer on cut throat, and shorter on epic. Or atleast try one of them with proper.
Yep, this wasn't very helpful.
Tried Some things like this with friends, and exactly, you need to compensate the different stems with both of the bars. Or the bikes just feels weird🧐
And not just the stem lengths but the length of the top tube.
I did convert a 90's Mtb to a Gravel Bike with "big" wheels.
The proper stem length took the most time....
They changed the stem. Rewatch the video at 0:38.
Only thing I'll never understand is so many people's need to have a bike fit a category. Build and ride whatever is cool and fun and leave it just that simple.
thats always where I end up thinking about categories. At the end of the day, labels are for marketing and we can ride whatever we want
Dylan Johnson absolutely punching the air right now.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@EverythingsBeenDone Translation: Dylan Johnson a pro gravel racer, likes to put drop bars on mountain bikes for rowdy gravel races. And talks about minimal gains from it. He’s all about the science behind his crazy decisions. All on CZcams.
@@Oldmtbdad Also, since he switched to Felt and can run xc mtb tires on his gravel rig, he has said something along the lines of "this all but eliminates the need for my drop bar mtb"
flat bars + bar ends, just like in the good old days EBD
Yes sir!!!
😊🔥🔥🔥
Dam Rites!!
During the pandemic I put drop bars on a 90s mountain bike to become “gravel cool”. Loved it and bought a “real” gravel bike. Now I have more drop bars than flat bars in my current n+1 where n=6 right now.
And now I’m watching your videos more than the mountain bike channels I was watching.
This channel is more funner than other bike channels.
@@whirving YES!! This channel is absolutely fun. Seems like he is also more interested in doing funny stuff instead of aero-science. Sometimes I watch GMBN as the Brits are humorous people, too. But most bike channels are (especially road and MTB) very determined and not so much funny.
@@bikedan99 He's like my internet bike buddy with the same on trail humor as my local dudes. Also he does cool stuff +bikes!
Riding dropbar mtb for half a year now, both fall, winter and spring. Don't know whether I'll b able to switch back to normal. So fun ❤
what was your experience w/ the front end? Dustin mentioned "wheel flop" and "less agility" on the single track. I have found the same thing sadly. I really want to love my dropbar Santa Cruz Highball, but it handles terribly except in a straight line!
In theory, I’d think going to a size smaller than usual maybe could help increase the handling and reduce the wheel flopping. What are your experiences? Is your drop bar MTB the same size you’d choose with a flat bar?
I've been riding hardtail gravel bikes for a few years now. The trick is finding an "older" frame with a shorter top tube and steeper headtube angle. I converted a Giant Revel and it's been great on road but better off.
@@parquevideo wheel flop is a result of head angle and fork offset. Not wheelbase.
Built a drop bar mtb for bikepacking specifically. Took doin' some math to get the stem/bar width and height correct though, beyond that, absolutely love it. Have both a rigid and a suspension fork depending on route.
I went flat bar on my gravel bike and Im thrilled with it. I don't have the time to do longer rides these days, but as a short ride ripper it's perfect
Add on some bar ends and you're laughing. Fastest and most comfortable way to go
Togs! Srsly life changing
I can practically hear the line between gravel bikes and mountain bikes getting blurrier and I'm all about it even if I'll never do it for my bike. I have a gravel touring bike that I use to commute to work so it's squarely aimed at roads with the ability to be stupid on the way home and on the weekends.
4:20 “it’s like really boaty to turn”
*followed by clip of boat passing*
Always cutty 👌🏼
He said, boaty.
I recently built a "monstercross" (MTB with dropbars) and it's crazy good bike. I usually ride mixed tracks, road, gravel with wood transitions (single tracks or rough sections) and it works perfectly in all environments. Not only that the fork allows you to go very hard, also the typically wider gearing of MTB helps in many scenarios. These bikes were imagined for ultra racing such as tour divide or spanish Badlands and if you ride this style, it makes perfect sens. But I am not selling it to anyone. One must get his own experience and opinion.
I have a Specialized Diverge Evo flat bar. Tiny bit of suspension and a gravel bike. It's better at mountain biking than most of the bikes I had throughout the 90s. It's a super fun setup and maybe my favorite bike ever!
Man this is awesome and the way you present is even better. Stem longer on the salsa and stem shorter on the epic would make both bikes better. Thanks Dustin your the best bicycle you tuber
This channel inspired me to get back into biking and a few weeks ago I picked up my first gravel bike! I really hope you keep up the great vids! Oh and congrats on 100k!!🎉
DK! I ironically was looking up this topic. Stoked for the vid!
I have been running a drop bar mountain bike since 2008 for gravel rides.
Having tried various different bikes I’ve come to the conclusion that a dual suspension xc bike is the most practical for me. Comfortable, capable and quick.
Add bar ends for more hand positions
Tbh XC was the correct way all along 😅
I built a Bearclaw Thunderhawk into a flat bar, dropper rowdy gravel bikepacker and can confirm the fun factor is off the charts! I rode it on Rock Cobbler and Fried Clay and it eats up green Singletrack. It’s way more fun riding to green singletrack and doing a few miles underbiked than driving a full sus to the trailhead and end up stuck in Seattle traffic for an hour+.
This
I had a Specialized Chisel a few years ago that I converted to drop bars. Ran 520mm drop bars and a 50mm stem and it rode great. Shortened my fork to 120mm travel. Was a beast off of pavement and, yes, heavier on pavement. Fun though and looked awesome. I called it FrankenChisel. My current gravel bike, Giant Revolt carbon, has a Whisky carbon flat bar. Makes it a little twitchy, but dampens out the vibration a bit more than drop bars. I shortened the stem on this one a little, too. I’m glad you’re trying stuff that isn’t the “norm”.
The problem is that the Epic HT with flatbat probably fits you well, therefore you cannot comfortably put drop bars on it because of the reach. You need smaller Epic HT bellow your ideal fit size and then put drops on it. That would actually work much better geometry wise.
Fun vid! I just did this: old school mtb w/drop bars; old school hybrid w/flat bars. They are: 90's Fuji MT Fuji LTD 26" mtb w/sti and drop bar, angle up stem, canti brakes, 3x9 gearing. Love this bike, a little heavy, but rides like a dream on local gravel roads. I find the drop bar puts too much of my body weight out front when I'm in the drops using the brakes. Like you say, the agility and steering is sluggish on single track. I think it's because of the weight shift of having to be in the drops to grab the brakes. The other bike I'm just converting is a '97 Trek 730 hybrid flat bar, 700c, 3x7 (will go 3x9 soon), canti brakes. I'm 65. When I was road and MTBing back in the day we all laughed at these bikes. I've gotta say, now that I have one and live on gravel roads, this flat bar hybrid is a blast. The rims that came with this bike are only ID wide enought for 38mm tires. I'm getting a new set of rims to be able to do 50's. The frame will handle them no prob. This is a really fun ride. I don't think either bike is great for mtb style single track (I have other bikes for that) but for gravel and adventure, these two builds are definitely something everyone should try. The heaviness of the Fuji with drop bars is like a plush Cadilac, and the light, uprightness of the Trek is really fun and playful, to use your term. Both are worth the build. And if you like wrenching on bikes during those long cold winter months, you could easily, for only a small outlay of $$$, build 2 new bikes this winter that will add a huge amount of enjoyment to your cycling stable. Or at least it did for my stable. Enjoy!!!!!
This is a great video on a comparison I've philosophized a lot in recent years. While I've never gone thru the hassle of setting up a drop bar suspension bike, I did convert my CX/gravel bike to flat bar. I agree with all of your insights, even the ones I haven't yet experienced personally😁. You hit it on the head though - a front suspension hardtail is a lot of bike to push on tarmac and drop bars aren't going to make a difference there. Ditto on your comment re: singletrack - the suspension fork is great but the drop bars sacrifice handling. Basically to your point: if I'm riding something that requires front suspension, I would prefer to have flat bars as well. Now, the flatbar gravel bike is fun as hell on singletrack. It's like a lighter version of a full rigid MTB. The one issue for me is the flatbar makes me forget that I'm not on a mountain bike, so I get caught taking more risks than I should 😅
I've been back and forth between flats and drops on several frames and have found that Jones Loop Bars or some similar Alt Bar = best of both worlds: multiple hand positions + leverage and control for rough terrain. Put that on a fully rigid +tire frame with tall stack and a fairly steep (69+ degree) head angle and you've got a recipe for fun on everything short of a full on aggressive MTB trail. In my experience anyway.
as always, very nice and entertaining content 👍
..as i missed the beginning of the the ebd-live and went back to the archives: thank you alex for this!…
Great vid 🤙🏾
I think some fiddling with fit and bar style might make it more comfortable, at that point though, a good hardtail with a lockout will be almost identical. Plus for stuff like the Great Divide, you want the upfront cushion.
I honestly can't think of a better build than a salsa cutthroat with jones bars, capable, eager to get rowdy and perfectly suited for both long days in the saddle grinding away on gravel and shorter 25-50 mile off road exploration...or a mix of both!
Tossed drops bars, AXS shifters, 36T chainring, and gravel tires on my Giant XTC and I am really liking it.
Fun informative video as usual...just put a flat bar on my gravel rig...really like the better control for descending steep rough gravel roads I ride in Alberta... being a seasoned MTBer I like the hand position in or out of the saddle while climbing,, thanks Dustin
Comparison was useful. I am in the process of converting a hardtail 2X MTB to solid fork and squeezing all the weight out of it leaving the flat bar. Lighter wheels, tires, tubes, bar, seat, and seat post. Need a bike to do long over night trail journeys. Too cheap to invest in yet another bike. BTW - love your use of Forest Park. Have ridden there quite a few times while on biz in your neighborhood.
I’ve got a diverge evo and it is so fun. Flat bar gravel/rigid mtb is awesome.
LUV your channel keep up the great work just getting into cycling at the rip old age of 59 and luvin it
I love hearing this! Welcome my Dude. Cycling unlike many other sports is something we will be able to do far into our lives. Honored you found the channel!
Cool video! I like how your playing around with stuff like this. I couldn’t see myself turning one of my mountain bikes into a drop bar bike but I think the cutthroat you modified is similar to my hybrid with gravel tires. I do want to put some wider bars on it and a shorter stem though.
I decided to experiment with a '99 Specialized Hardrock mtb and threw some drops onto it. The stretch was just too much and it caused so much discomfort. I rode it for a little over a year but about 2 weeks ago I swapped it back to flat bars. It didn't work for me for a variety of factors but something like it may work for someone else. Worthy of some experimentation.
I have never tried a Salsa, so it was cool to see you on one.
I've had a flat bar single speed CX bike for 5+ year and I can echo your sentiments.
Super playful and twitchy, climbs comfortably, and descends fast. The downfall is that it's not entirely comfortable on long rides and meshes poorly in group rides. Additionally, the flat bar setup is more suited for dynamic routes with twisty single track, not long straight roads of gravel.
Picked up a €40 clunker of an MTB 2nd hand which is like 15kg and then swapped out the bars to drops just to learn more about mechanical side of things. It's got cheap as friction shifters and drop lever breaks, so cool - Like a cheap as chips gravel MTB monster!! Also Schwalbe Hurricane tyres make is superb on the paved surfaces... smooooooth!
Thanks for a great video Dustin, I ride a flat bar gravel after growing up mountain biking. I also have a carpenters bad back so can’t bend down to drops. Flat bars are sick.
Cheers, Steve from Melbourne Australia
I've got two Gorilla Monsoons, one dropbar and one flats. Both are awesome for different rides. The flats are fun for shorter trips around town with some gravel thrown in and is aot of fun on a commute. The drops are better for the longer rides. I put my panniers on the flatbar and it's my commuter now, less fun than it was without the paniers but gets me to work.
Have done the drop bar mountain bike twice now on a Surly Ice Cream Truck (rigid & hardtail with either 26x4.8, 27.5x3.5 & 29x3 tires) and also a Carbon Stumpjumper Hardtail (29x2.1). Both have gone back to flat bars now. I just received my shifter to convert my Topstone from curly bars to flat and plan on making the switch this weekend. I’m hoping that this will be the setup I ride for this and many riding seasons to come and will sell the Surly and Specialized.
Oh man , you are having the time of your life there. Cheers to that. :)
I've decided the perfect 3 bike quiver is an allroad/cx bike, a 120mm f/r xc/downcountry bike, and a 100mm xc hardtail with ultralight casing tires + a rigid fork.
Building up a flat bar gravel bike right now. Right set of alt bars or some 90’s era bar ends and the multiple hand positions problem is solved.
Perhaps, "Everything's Been Done", but has it been done with DK's flare? No, no it has not. Great video man! Thanks! Always enjoy your takes on things. Have a good weekend DK.
I just built a drop bar mtn bike. It's the bomb.. Specialized Stumpjumper carbon hardtail. 90mm front travel. Two sets of wheels: 38mm file tread for smooth and 2.25 Conti Race Kings for chunk.
im feeling this, and i subscribed.
That Epic drop bar is pretty much Lael Wilcox's set up. Interesting thoughts and helps me as I sit here contemplating the perfect Bikepacking bike. Gravel bike with 40 to 50mm suspension fork, Giant Revolt X Felt carbon breed with suspension fork, Curve Big KEV all have clearance for big rubber. Or the Salsa Cutthroat, but you say ti wasn't as you expected with the 100mm fork, this tells me that my feeling about a gravel bike with a 40-50mm fork that fits 50mm to 2.1 rubber is the sweet spot.I'm currently riding a specialized diverge with 50mm tires fitted (pushing the limits) its almost there just lacks a bit extra travel but so damn close
I’d recommend to start with something like a Surly Corner Bar with a shorter stem first as a proof of concept. Cheaper and faster for those who can’t possess these fancy SRAM or Shimano brifters and derailleur.
i've been scheming about putting drop bars on my Rocky Growler 40 but i think I may just have to buck up and buy a proper gravel bike, great vid!
The Cutthroat with alt bar (Ritchey Kyote or Buzzard) and inner bar ends is my preferred. Definitely more upright position though. I rode the Cutthroat stock in drop bar mode for several years and never really felt confident in the rowdy single track.
Great vid!!! Would like to see your thoughts on a gnarly gravel with Redshift front and rear suspension. Thanks, love your channel
Just got a custom steel-frame Sycip (size XXXL) and set it up as a drop-bar 29er rigid MTB with full boost spacing, a dropper post, and Shimano 'Unstoppable' GRX 1x. It's dreamy - faster and better everywhere than I expected. If you're ever in Northern California, and have at least a 36" inseam, come check it out!
I'm in that category of mountain biker who likes to ride on roads and gravel as well. I just can't get in to drop bars. My main ride around town is an old 29er hardtail with a rigid fork and I went alt bar with the Velo Orange Crazy Bars (ver 2). I imagine it's pretty similar to the flat bar gravel bike and it makes short work of trails like Leif Erikson and Firelane #5 as well as being a fun around town crusier that begs to be hopped off (and up) curbs.
I am in the process of building a drop bar MTB as my do everything ok bike (everyday/gravel/singletrack/bikepacking/dog carrier). I’ll be running a 35mm stem with a 611mm top tube C-C.
I really hope this doesn’t suck. But honestly, I have stubborn love. I used to daily a track bike with 700c r and 650 front. Any of these two setups are sure to be beyond comfortable for me.
@user-zo8ck6k1n "I used to daily a track bike with 700c r and 650 front" MY MAN.
Full rigid non-boost 29er mountain bike with backswept flat bars and inner bar ends. Push smaller slicker tires for more efficiency or larger treadier tires for rougher terrain, or just spring for a hardtail if you know it's rougher stuff.
Been sitting on a Battaglin gravel frame (yes, they make them) for five years and NEED to build it up. Already have a sick gravel whip so looking to do a flat-bar gravel/singletrack slayer, probably with a 30mm gravel fork because, why not. Great video, lots of good points, now it's time to figure out how much money I should throw down the bike drain!
I put surly corner bars on my Roscoe. I use it more for commuting, but it’s still fun
Love this video! But when will you do sticker packs? Maybe reflective sticker packs like ryde safe is doing, but actually good like you do?? That green weller bike had great graphics. Great content either way, great videos man!
I ride a Cutthroat with a Fox 32 100mm and a Ritchey Keote bar with barends in the bends of the bar, 90mm stem. Feels great on multi our or even days.
Dustin, love your videos. You've convinced me to buy a skitch, which I would like to do when they have some available (unless you want to sell me yours). That said, do you have or plan on having any cycling caps in your store. If not, can you recommend one? I've already purchased the fjallraven jacket you recommended and the micro climate vest. Wish I still lived in Portland but DC ain't bad. Lastly, would you recommend shocks for the skitch?
I am currently planing out my drop bar mountain bike. I have 2 options an old Tomac hard tail I have been holding on to for years. Or a 2014 trek fuel ex8. Both are old geo and use a longer stem. The new redshift riser drop-bars with a short stem would work on both bikes. I worked in bike shops back in the 90s and I remember all the cool roadies had drop-bar mountain bikes back then. I have always wanted one. I have just had to wait for AXS to have a good way to do it with modern parts.
If you have a drop bar bike that's comfy to you to ride then compare the top tube length and reach of that to your two options. Sounds like you're thinking that way already though. I did a conversion on an older fully rigid Rockhopper from the late 80s. It's a blast for everyday riding, commuting, and gravel.
I started getting suspension-curious when I saw Lael Wilcox's Specialized Epic HT (with drop bars) that she used for the Tour Divide but haven't tried it myself yet. I'm mainly doing adventure rides and bikepacking so it would make sense but I'd end up adding weight to the bike and also loosing the fork cages
I have two drop bar gravel bikes already, (one more all road, the other more rough gravel) and plan on building up a third with flat bars just for the hell of it….
That's why I run 'alt bar' instead of drop bar on my hardtail.
(Velo Orange Crazy bar on Specialized Chisel to be specific)
I converted my Surly Karate Monkey to drop bar and like it. I'm using a bar end shifter and the original SRAM derailleur, and swapped to mechanical Avid BB7's. Need to play with stem length to see if I can get the fit a little better.
Thank you so much for the video. I recently bought a Dropbar Gravel Bike and having a hard time with the Drop Bar and seriously thinking of swapping to a flatbat with innerbarends (i know they‘re ugly) for comfort…
Thanks for another great show. Once you have lengthened the stem on the Cutthroat try some alt bars as these can provide multiple hand positions eg loop or H bars or maybe some inner bar ends on the ‘straight’ flat bars 👍👍. Then make us another video 😂
You should have used ~35mm stem on the drop-bar hardtail to compensate for the increased reach of the drops.
My first thoughts was change the stem length to accommodate the change in bar. Otherwise, love this type of experiment.
Interesting to see your take and how you felt on those bikes.
Hearing of Wheel Flop with the Epic immediately raised my alarm bells or rather - confirmed what I saw from similar bikes and their head tube angles. I checked and sure enough: the Epic has a 67.5 deg head tube angle.
I recommend to you (and everyone else wondering whether a drop bar mtb is for them): just check out a hardtail (or full sus) with a steering angle of 69 %. That's the same as the Salsa Cutthroat has. And that's the angle my Canyon Exceed has.
And boy is it a fun machine! It' agile (ye - before I build it I was a bit sceptical myself), it has no wheel flop. You (I) don't sit stretched on it despite using the same 80 mm stem it came with as a flat bar bike. It's just a way more comfortable and way more capable gravel bike than rigid gravel bikes are. And you have more hand positions.
So... it's all in the steering, folks. Unfortunately, XC MTBs all getting more slack since some years already, too. All for the sake of ever more extrem XCO courses with rock gardens without end. If people wanna know more on all the ins and outs of making their own DropbarMTB or as I like to put it, their 2025 model year Gravelbike, they can finde some info on my blog.
I currently am running a hybrid bike (Ribble) with gravel bike tyres it’s flats bar but I’m considering going drop bar on it to mix things up. Love the channel. I love messing with bikes it good to be a bike weirdo 😂
I think you should swap stems and try the comparison again. Since that would level them both out to be more equal.
Shorten the stem on the Epic! That’ll make the turning so much quicker. I just drop barred my specialized chisel and I’ll probably end up settling on a 70mm stem on a large frame!
I am quite interested in this combo: mtb flatbar HT with short/compact aerobar extension. Full speed on a way down and chill/aero position on long streteches(?)
Hey Dustin - put a shorter stem (50-70mm) on that drop bar and you'll be happier. Your Spesh is the hot setup for running Leadville.
I put a flat bar (Curve Remlaw with 100mm Redshift suspension stem) on my Trek Checkpoint, which has much roadier geo than the Cutthroat (for that reason, the Cutthroat is (was) kind of a dream bike for me). It was and remains a great build, but I have been riding it a lot less since I built up my true rigid MTB (2020 Santa Cruz Chameleon with Trek 1120 fork and 29x3.0 tire in front), which I am straightforwardly obsessed with. I probably should restore the Checkpoint to its stock configuration and sell it, but I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to do it.
I realised I never used the drops so I swapped to flatbar, cheaper components, easier to change grips when they wear, easier to re-cable, happy days.
Ive always wanted to try setting up my Specialized Fuse with drop bars for long distance trail riding.
Tried flat bar, it was ok, but I much prefer a wide drop bar. My hands feel more comfortable on a drop bar, when riding a fairly straight trail I put my hands in the centre use cyclocross brakes.
When heading into the wind I can use the drop portion of the bars.
I think that with a shorter stem and a larger bar (i.e. ritchey beacon xl ) you will have more control of the dropbar mtb
Shorter stem on the epic would do the trick for the slow steering and over stretched, that is actually my current project
Get a 29ner hardtail and put 700c gravel tyres on it, wheels are the same size, it’s an absolute game changer, much more cabable than a flat bar gravel or drop bar gravel.
So I did get the idea somewhere and went about converting my old full suspension Epic EVO with a gravel drop bar. I have not ridden it yet but once I do, I'll let you know. Looks crazy cool though!
I think the flat bar bike would be really fun to ride. I’m thinking about buying a Santa Cruz Skitch, with a flat bar.
That’s why I love my Grizl with 50 mm tires and suspension
I’ve tried a Salsa El Marichi Ti with the Surly Corner Bar, and try as I might to make a Salsa Fargo style bike, I just couldn’t get the fit right. Something was off. Rigid or suspension. Stem length was swapped. Ultimately I put the El Mar back to its old mountain bike self.
Great video
I liked the remake of the old Frankie Vallee and the 4 Seasons cover used in the background.
for the mtb drop setup to work it would be better to size down on the frame and put short negative stem. it's not heavy, to the contrary gravel frames are usually much heavier and HT has much better climbing geo. feels clunky but when you time both bikes against each other results might be very surprising
EBD Jacquie Phelan. Fun vid, thanks :)
Really enjoying my Framed Basswood with 60mm suspension fork and seatpost and drop bars. Currently have 700x45c tires on it with fenders. Comfortable and capable. Previously, put an MTB fork on a Marin Muirwoods with drop bars and the geometry didn't check out. (Wonky) It was capable, though.. I'm curious how you feel about the Cutthroat with suspension fork and drop bars now..
Looks like the concerns about the dropbar MTB conversion could be resolved with a shorter stem and a wider dropbar
categories are a marketing tool and we have no obligation to them. Ride what you want and go have fun
I propose putting a rigid fork on the flat bar 29er. Best of both worlds?
Maybe sorting out reach on the drop bar with a shorter stem would have been a good idea. You were pretty stretched out, and a short stem gives less self-centre effect.
It's still a boat, though 😁
Great video. Anyone have an opinion on what the Canyon Grizl with the short travel suspension fork might be like? I’m thinking seriously about buying one but now I’m having doubts. Any recommendations or experience with the Grizl suspension will be appreciated.
Interesting. I tell all my pals that my Epic HT feels like a road bike - direct, accurate, stiff and powerful. I thought a drop bar set up would make it the ultimate rowdy gravel bike - maybe not.
Well to this swap to make sense long term where w would had to be a bike fitting session involved.