Gravel Bike vs Hardtail - Which Should You Buy?
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- Gravel bike or Hardtail MTB, which would you go for? Let us know in the comments.
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One thing about Gravel Bikes that doesn't get much mention is that they are pretty much the ideal touring setup. Comfortable enough, fast enough.
You could certainly make it work, however for long distance touring the rear end will be a bit too short.
One thing that also doesn't get any mention, is that you can fit drop handlebar extensions to flat XC bars.
Good touring bikes often have more attachment points for gear than gravel bikes do.
Depends on what surface you are touring on! The majority of tour divide peeps use a mtb because of comfort and that's actual gravel
@@jon_underscore the salsa journeyer has a million bolts everywhere. Some brands are better about it than others
After two year riding a gravel…..I came back to xc bike….so comfortable
All the videos Francis has been making are like creating the basics for people getting into riding and being a go to rather than someone like GCN, which I applaud him for. Different perspective for people and something that’s not just sponsor based
I mean francis also has sponsorships from garmin and scott. Just something to keep in mind.
I'm an avid road cyclist, but want to get in to something off road. So yeah this is useful to me without being new to cycling.
@@happykanye he’s got sponsorships but so far haven’t seen him say that a Scott foil is going to magically make you super quick or that it’s next thing since sliced bread. He’s sponsored but doesn’t live and breathe them.
@@thebudgetcyclist4310yep most GCN vids are ads, sometimes set in some interesting context... Some times not.
GCN was also like that, before Eurosport bought them few years ago👍
A big part of this comes down to “where” you are going to ride most of the time. Gravel bikes are designed to ride “gravel” and there’s not a lot of that in the UK. If you are riding “off road” - trails, mud, single track, rocks, downhill then the hardtail seems a better choice. For a mixture of Road and not very technical trails I can see the advantages for the gravel bike too.
I am in Croatia at coast in south , and I cannot remember any significant gravel road here . Nice MTB hardtail and you can even commute in city , better than with any other bike . It's bike for all purposes , and most people like that - to be able to just jump to sidewalk , to ride in really bad roads , to just go in parks and nature . And 99% of people do not need 10 kg carbon mtb hardtail , they would be good aluminium , 14 kg bike , and bike will be durable and safe to ride for decade or longer . I hate to see that guy in video was so desperate and frustrated when he saw that his bike is 'heavy' at 10 kg . I have seen too many people here ( Dubrovnik ) who buy great bikes and then they are not riding it . I have 1000$ MTB and I like it . Bike riding does not suppose to be easy as walk at park at slow pace . It's heavy sometimes , I just jump off my bike at uphill and walk beside the bike . Why would I spend all my energy on one impossible hill .
Exactly!! Over here in Canada we have thousands of KM of gravel roads… where a gravel is the perfect tool.
Horses for courses, yes. I don't see gravel bikes as gravel surface specific though. I think of them as meant for smooth off road withouth very steep climbs/descents or technical sections. Whether the tracks are gravel or more clay based it goes down to tyre choice, I think.
I live in the UK and I find most off road riding hardly justifies a MTB, apart from comfort. It is mostly flat with the odd hill in between and hardly any big boulders, except perhaps in Scotland, Wales, and the odd bit in Northern England. I am able to ride slick road tyres in most of flat off road tracks, unless it is winter. I never found myself unable to ride off road with my gravel tyres, even when I was living in an area with rolling hills. It is not the most comfortable ride though.
I come from a mountaineous region in sourthern europe where even a hardtail is often lacking off road, let alone a gravel bike. 1800m of elevation over 75k is very much the norm and there are rocks and boulders everywhere. Gravel bikes are only suited to forest tracks, which means most riders have road or MTB only.
MTB are definitely more suited and more comfortable off road, although they are also more costly to maintain due to suspension forks and/or shocks, which I don't think many realise and could perhaps been highlighted. Unless the terrain asks for one, I prefer a drop bar bike with wider tyres. More versatile and easier to maintain.
I don't think hardtails and gravel bikes are comparable at all, they are just suited to different terrains.
I like to ride my gravel bike on my local trails. I am under biked and it's awesome!!
@Andrew Brown There is plenty of gravel in the UK.
Speed isn't everything to everyone. Hardtail XC MTB is a comfortable commuter and excellent bike packing rig. Your choice should be based not only on what riding you'll mostly do but also which bike gives you the most confidence.
As a gravel bike rider, I completely agree with you. I used a hardtail with different tires for it.
The way I see it, with an XC bike you can put thinner/slicker tires, different bar and just lock the suspension and you have a gravel bike. You can never turn a gravel bike into a capable mountain bike.
For bike packing I always pick my Gravel Bike. For single tracks off course a Hardtail
@@Qlickyyour comment summs it up perfectly!
Love your little outings testing stuff/comparing bikes etc, I'm an avid mtb'r but jumped on the whole gravel bike band wagon last year and I'm totally loving it!
Can I just say the quality of these videos is amazing, the shot of Jimmy at 11:26 captures the joy of cycling so well. Love it!
Of course, down to individual preference and where you're going to be riding most, but I love the versatility of the gravel bike on paths, trails, and roads and over longer distances the road handlebars are more comfortable. Definitely limited on trails and downhill but if you're choosing one bike that will kind of take you everywhere, I'd say gravel is the one.
Great explanation of the differences guys! So much of it comes down to the terrain you intend to ride. For me the ‘gravel’ riding is so light in Sydney you can easily manage it on your road bike, but then the jump to anything off road is dramatic … often loose sandstone singletrack. I’m leaving towards going the hard tail route, but like Francis alluded to its the compatibility and familiarity jump when going MTB that I’m afraid of.
What about a rigid 26er?
You fellas are smashing it….
Loving the team work since Jimmy has joined forces 👌🏽
Cracking video-editing as well as inspiration Francis as always.
Thanks for your work Francis ✌🏽
Thanks so much for watching 👊
I was asking myself the same question only a week back.
I've ridden an awful lot on various versions of road bikes, and, inevitably, using them on gravel tracks and muddy trails (aka National Cycle Network). What gets me every time is the mud which just gums everything up and, with mudguards (fenders) on normally finds me grinding to a gritty stop. In addition there are the inevitable ruts from tree roots or from larger vehicles (cyclo-cross bikes and off-roader cars).
And so I opted for a hardtail MTB. Nothing too fancy - but not entry level - I've found the large nobbly tyres, super-wide straight handlebars and generous gear ratios a real epoc-defining change in riding experience. That coupled with the front suspension and more upright riding position (my back's not what it once was) has enabled me to just plough through and over everything. Indeed, where once I avoided ruts, puddles and divets, I now actively seek them out - it's just so much fun.
Finally, living in Chopwell (which has very similar terrain to Hamsterley, but probably more water and therefore mud, and certainly hills) I think that the MTB just lends itself to the terrain perfectly.
Finally, someone mentioned that I'd joined "the dark side". Seems like there is a different culture between roadies and MTB'ers which may be worth covering off in one of your fine episodes.
Loving the evolving channel guys!
The in-between is a full rigid mountain bike. You can put whatever size tire you want, and no extra weight from the squishy suspension. And they're great for bikepacking.
Like a fat tire bike?
@@parvapatel6335 that or something like a salsa Fargo or surly ghost grappler.
Bridge Club, Brother Cycles Big Bro, Ogre
I see your fully rigid, and raise you singlespeed.
As someone who’s ridden and raced mountain bikes for around a decade, I’ve just switched to a road bike.. the sketchy feeling of a gravel bike on a trail is how I feel on the road lol! Everything feels too far forward and really unstable! But I’m loving the speed!
I'm still used to mtb harddtails with 20-10 old geo and I even find them too steep and twitchy, but I have to say it was intoxicating jumping on a road/hybrid and feeling what it was like on a bike so light that a single pedal stroke would let me coast up an incline and slice back and forth through turns with barely any mass to feel in the way, but good god that feels dangerous to someone used to knobs that hook into everything for traction. The hybrid/gravel rocket feeling offroad is addicting if you got the privilege of places to use it but I always have the fear that slick/tiny knob tires will suddenly give out and send me into a guard rail/ditch
What will happen if you attach skinny tires to mtb ? How will it perform on right road with zero elevation ?
@@sauravbasu8805 I used to run a rigid MTB on 26, "28mm slicks, probably 2-4mph slower on the flat than my road bike.
I think area has a big impact as well, mine has loads of cracks in the concrete with the patches creating bumps and the bike friendlyness varies so I have to swap between bike path, road and shared path constantly.
I started on an older ht mtb, 71 degree hta. When I went to rigid flatbar with skinny tyres, as you did, I noticed that suddenly all these bumps and cracks in the concrete in my area started popping out at me. It felt faster on good smooth road and concrete but more often I had to avoid things in the road or stop for obstructions.
Pulled out the old hardtail, got the lightest 2.1inch smooth tyres I could find and got rid of the triple crank and suddenly it feels much faster and confident. I don't have to worry about anything short of a sinkhole and can move between terrain seamlessly to avoid obstruction.
Having written all that I realise you sort of captured this by saying its about 'how' you ride, and area is an assumed factor I guess
Coming from a mtb to GRVL I found running wide and flaired drop bars makes a big difference with the stability you mentioned, especially noticeable on single-track
One thing to note about gravel bikes is that old non-boost MTB wheels fit thruaxle gravel bikes as long as you can swap the front hub end caps to match the fork. Rear wheels are the same as the old 12x142 MTB standard that was replaced with 12x148 Boost. So if you have access to older non-boost MTB wheels then those make a good alternative for rougher gravel roads. Depending on cassette choice some fit directly and some just require a freehub body swap to work.
Its cool to see these kind of comparisons.
I bought a gravel bike 3 years ago after riding mountainbikes for years and years.
After about 2000km on the gravel bike i put on flat bars, and I love it even more now. And thats because it suits me and what I come from.
So it''s all about prefecene :D
Nice videos!
You can fit drop handlebar extensions to flat bars, the only benefit is aerodynamics against a headwind.
@@JP-hr7ch uhm, okay. But I just switched from dropbars to flats, so I don't need that 🙂
@@jensthimmvalsted1000 LOL It's just a potential option, but whilst aerodynamically functional in a headwind, they're not aesthetically good looking at all :(
@@JP-hr7ch my GT grade that I converted to flat bars looks pretty good.
@@johnfowler4820 Ye flat bars always look better.
Something about Jimmy's face that always makes me smile, he always looks like he's enjoying himself and brings a boyish curiosity! Keep up the good work fellas
👋
I was not equiped with much stuff before getting my gravel bike. I have an old hard-tail that I use sometimes on relatively easy trails (with variable quantities of mud and/or water). The gravel allows me to go far and fast with the option to be comfy on bad roads and take trails when they are available. Far from motorized trafic as much as possible. Like a road bike but very comfortable and able to go off road, without sacrificing to much in terms of efficiency on the road.
There’s only so much that fat tires can compensate for, and on longer rides it doesn’t take a very rough surface to get uncomfortable on a gravel bike, so the answer which bike to choose should be based entirely on where it’s going to be used most and not what tools and spares we have laying around.
I have both. But, adding a Jones bar to my hardtail really is a game changer. It's now more comfortable and capable on the road sections. Tons of different hand placement.
with my old worn out body, with damage from accidents and age, i use a hard tail mountain bike with gravel tires. works great, upright position comfy for my back and wrists. gearing and crankset adjusted for better road/gravel riding, thats all you need
Most offroad routes around me are twisty and undulating, with a fair share of rocks and roots. I have just a very minimal amount of long, straight, fast gravel routes around me. Because of this, I am doing higher average speeds using my Specialized Chisel than using my Diverge. The latter can also do some pretty rough terrain using knobbly 45mm tires, but way slower. The Diverge only becomes faster when i reach more than 50% paved surface on my ride. I also have to add that this is only true when I use very fast XC tires on the hardtail- something like an Aspen or a Race King. Using this type of tire + innerbarends gets you very close to the tarmac speeds of a gravel bike, with this setup I can easily keep up with my gravel buddies on a group ride, even on straightline paved roads.
My take is, gravel bikes are best if you want to go very long distances, with a large(50+) percentage of tarmac involved. If it’s mostly off road, I just get the Chisel, even for 100km+ rides.
One thing to consider is the strengt of the wheels. Gravel bikes are built lighter. If the bike gets a lot of rough handling off road the wheels are probably not strong enough.
I would ride an upright XC-MTB with a narrower handle bar and narrower fast rolling tires.
Good video guys. I’ve got a gravel bike and love it. Gravel tyres for winter riding, then switch to slicks for the summer. Super comfy for a middle aged man like myself, and does most things I’d want to do off road. It’s just when it gets sloppy, that it’s a struggle to ride off road.
MTB inspired gravel bikes such as the Canyon Grizl with a 30mm suspension option and clearance for chunky 50mm tyres are a blend of the two. Possibly my next bike purchase.
Really great vid. Informative and fun
Something in between would be an older hardtail, or older ridgid mtb. I have ridden both and they have narrower bars, more upright geo, and smoother tires. I use the ridgid as a gravel bike but from the opposite side. The rear 1.9in tire works great for bad roads and hardpack. These bikes used to be more common, but mountain bikes focused more on downhill prowess and left a void that the gravel bike has now filled.
An XC bike with aero bars and semi-slick tyres is also really fast and capable. Particularly if it gets steep on the downhill, the gravel bike is going to run out of back wheel grip, and any front brakes will send you over the bars, while the XC bike will stay in control.
I can attest to the back wheel of a gravel bike losing grip on a steep downhill and sweeping away from under you like a tablecloth trick under the silverware.
Luckily I fell next to the sharp rocks and not on top of them.
By aero bars you mean like the TT kind of aero bars?
Yep, something for the flats so you can get your body forward.
I went with tt bars on a 2016 giant xtc. Bike packing, commuting. Very useful for distance & for boosting av. speed!
What is your opignion on Schwalbe Thunder Burt tires as a choice for XC hardtail...
@@stefanlukic7272 love thr Thunder Burts! Have always ridden them on my xc full sus Cannondale Scalpel. Finished 23rd overall at Dirty Kanza one year. They're fast, with good traction and stability. Just ordered another set for my new Trek Super Caliber. I will also ride my Super Caliber on gravel 100%.
I've found that where I live a Gravel bike is perfect for everything I'd do with an XC bike. Said XC bike hasn't been in the wild since I got the Gravel bike. Riding trails in the drops is super fun and I love long tours on mixed terrain.
Great content, thankyou. I went gravel a few years back. My advice would be to get one that can take a carrier and if you can, get a second wheel set with different tyres. I use clip on mudguards. I now have a CX, commuter, bike camper, winter trainer all in one with little changeover time. I do struggle on some tracks in the mud when horses have been but on the whole fully recommend. With the state of the roads clip on aero bars next😅 and kick out the TT.
Nice one. I think the missing link between the two that was alluded, and something that might warrant a return to this is a gravel/adventure bike on 650b, perhaps something with more relaxed geo still, like a Curve Kevin. Gravel is a spectrum, after all...
Enjoyed this video greatly. I'd love to see if fitting straight bars to your gravel bike changes things for you on the bumpy stuff.
The hand grip and position spooked me when I hit the bumpier sections, so a narrower flat bar might do the trick! It wasn't my bike so I got straight back on my HT as I had the same premonition of "I see an accident with something immovable coming up!"
I never thought I needed or wanted a gravel bike, but bought one on a whim which was on sale. I have a whole stable of bikes, including top end XC bikes, enduro bike, single speed etc, and despite living right next to one of the best MTB parks in the world, I have found I spend most my time on the gravel bike. Its the bike I needed without knowing I needed it! I love the speed and versatility of the gravel bike and can link long rides together that involve road, gravel, single track etc - it does it all pretty well.
Hola Francis
Enhorabuena por tus vídeos 👌!!!
La nueva SCALE no tenía la opción de instalar rigid fork..??
Tendriamos con esta opción una gravel monster ..??
Realiza la prueba tu que puedes y nos cuentas..!!
Salud y pedaleees!!!
Gracias
Missed opportunity here is having a dropper seat post on the MTB, makes a massive difference in my experience
And locking out the fork when climbing to prevent the bob when pedaling.
An XC hardtail is far more versatile because it can ride road (not as fast, but can do it) and handle far rougher terrain. If you're talking versatility, the hardtail beats a gravel bike every day of the week.
What it comes down to is expectations. Where I live, it's fairly flat. So I just use my fixie as a single speed for roads. Gears aren't that necessary.
If I'm riding somewhere and I don't know what the roads are going to be like, then I take the XC bike with 100mm suspension that I converted to single speed (again, flat terrain) with XC tires with smaller knobs than the ones on the bike in the video. It's basically my, "I don't know what road conditions are like and I'm riding in an area where hopping onto a curb at a moment's notice might be necessary" bike. I'm not worried about speed, so a gravel bike is fairly useless to me. Plus, that "slack" 69 degree head angle is far more stable at speed on the few downhill spots I find, or when I'm sending stairs because I'm cutting across a plaza.
I'm a MTB rider myself, so it's super interesting seeing this comparison from more of the roadie perspective! Same definitely applies in reverse with your conclusion at the end; if you've got some trail MTBs already, something along the lines of an XC mountain bike is the easier transition because they likewise share so many parts from stuff you've already got. If I were to go for a gravel bike for example, I'd be starting from scratch, not necessarily having road bike tools or parts laying around. Though I think there's some gravel bikes that borrow more from the MTB parts bin? So there's that to consider as well.
I ride MTB and Road and I really hate that there is so much prejudices against the other in both worlds.
the tools are the same btw ;)
@@5amba True enough, the tools don't actually change (unless it's something super-specific). Mostly just parts
@@5ambait’s all riding
Getting the right bike is often a tough thing because you often have bigger ambitions than the reality shows. I've spent years riding an xc when the reality would better be covered by a road bike or if today - a gravel bike.
Then I spent years with a full suspension enduro bike when a full suspension xc bike would be better suited or down country as it is today.
Now I got an endurance (like a gravel bike, just in the most road-like segment) and a road bike. And I'm looking at building that down country bike for my trips in the woods. so finally I might have the right bikes ;)
I reckon that a lot of people who are new to gravel bikes and drop bars find security in the flat handlebar, the leverage it offers and a certain sense of sitting in the bike rather than on top of it. If the terrain isn’t technical or rocky then a gravel bike with narrow flat bars could also be a suitable middle ground for many. Much like a hybrid but with the longer, lower geometry of a gravel bike.
Bought a gravel bike to do it all around Cornwall and it has not disappointed....however, rode my local MTB trail with it and noticed how sore my back and arms were after having no suspension and a narrow handlebar. Will deffo be getting a hardtail for trails, and keeping the gravel to be my go-to everyday do-it-aller! 🚲
thank you great video guys
I use my gravel bike as a long distance road bike mostly. When doing really long rides I don't know the route beforehand, so there is a high chance to see some gravel/dirt roads. Also the more comfortable position, low gearing and bigger tire clearance works well for that. I tried taking it on gnarlier stuff too but did not like it at all, I much prefer a mtb for that.
That's what has me considering a gravel bike too (in my case probably building something budget using older parts), I think I'd enjoy a road bike for long distance but... this is probably a pretty global thing, but around where I am in the US, there's a *lot* of rough roads. You'd think a 4-lane mini-highway ("stroad") would be nice and smooth and fast, but there's potholes and crappy patch jobs and ripples at stoplights, etc etc... I wouldn't dare trying to take on some of these streets without a bit more grip and cushion, at least at my skill level. Way nicer to be a bit overbiked for rough terrain when you don't know the condition of the roads ahead, and having that option to say "I'm not touching that" when you come across some 60MPH highway route all of a sudden and you've got some gravel trail nearby as a safer route.
Likewise I'm coming from usually riding an MTB, so that's also a factor. Gravel bike is the good compromise for someone with a MTB background looking to pick up a bit more speed without going all the way into a road bike.
I love watching your videos as a mountain biker because it's funny hearing you call an XC race machine with a 69 degree head angle "slack" when I'm use to riding bikes with 63-65 degree head angles that weigh 35lbs.
That was an glorious little trail. Looks hell of a lot of fun.
When it comes to defining a gravel bike, I think the best way to think of it is that bikes sit somewhere on the following spectrum
Track bikes -> road bikes -> all road bikes -> off road bikes
Gravel (depending on the bike) sits between all road and off road on the spectrum. Same can be said for hardtails but they sit close to the offroad end of the spectrum.
So that answer to your question is where does your riding or where do you want your riding to sit on that spectrum
Francis nailed it, if you're on an actual "trail", suspension fork and flat bar all the way. If you're staying on "gravel" or flat forest roads, knobby tires on a road frame!
Actually somewhere Jimmy says the ideal would be "In between". Actually I use Giant XR1 (2011, positioned as a hybrid bike) as commuter bike / don't worry about the surface in the weekend bike. For perfect weather I have my carbon road bike, for anything else the Giant is the go-to bike. With 42mm Pathfinder Pro tires it rolls very well on tarmac (center part = slick), has grip on gravelly bits. It is not a big mountain bike, but still has 60 mm of travel in the front fork.
Oh, and Nowt Daft 🙂!
I love my gravel bike for multiple uses and being underbiked is kinda fun. My mountain bike feels like a tank now, even on trail .
I just sold my cross country hardtail, because for cross country riding my gravel bike is perfect (including light trails). Plus it's great for commuting and touring, basically 3 bikes in 1. I kept my Enduro hardtail for the gnarly stuff.
My gravel bike has such a comfortable and laid back geometry, so it's super comfy on either short or very long trips. And it has eyelets, so I can put on a rack or fenders if needed.
I think this also depends on where you live - you guys touched on that with the types of riding you do. I live in Colorado, USA, so the terrain somewhat requires more than a gravel bike can generally offer.
I only have a gravel bike and here's why...
I ride majority on tarmac but the 20-30% that's off road is non negotiable, because of where I live. I tried the routes on a road bike and it was sketchy and very slow.
This also gives me the ability to go on some fairly rogue trails if I'm feeling randy.
They're comfortable, easy to ride and capable.
I’m one of those in a dilemma about whether to buy an mtb or gravel bike. I already have 3 road bikes but can only accept max 25mm tyres. Also, I’d like you to do a test/discussion around gravel bikes with front suspension. PlanetX have the titanium Tempest gravel with a custom Rockshox or the Canyon Grizl again with front shock to smooth out the lumps and bumps. The biggest headache to me seems the tyre choice if your route is mix of on and off road.
Another thing is most of my mates with MTBs stick their bikes in a car and take them to a forest/trail which contrasts with ‘roadies’ like me who start 99% of their rides from the front door. If I’m doing any distance even as small as 5 miles on tarmac I’m taking a drop bar road oriented bike an MTB is just too non aero and sluggish.
As I've gotten to be of the older persuasion, I have less interest in absolutely going fast, and more interest in going comfortably but still getting good aerobic exercise. Additionally, I want to avoid punctures as much as possible. Toward that end, I now have both a hard tail and a full sus. mtb. The upright position my be less "aero", but is more comfortable than dipping into the drops; the more robust tires are less prone to punctures; the suspension smooths out bumps on the road and rocks and roots off-road. Yeah, they're slower than their road and gravel bike brethren on pavement, but one can still get good exercise while enjoying the scenery. After I turned 60, ten years ago, my whole motivation for cycling has changed. Of the two bikes you tested, I'd go for the XC mtb. If I only cared about riding on pavement, I'd just install skinnier, less knobby tires.
Awesome!
Can you do a video with a Road Bike (like a Scott Addict, not like a Scott Foil) with 650B wheels and wider tyres Vs a Gravel bike?
Would that set up be comparable with a gravel bike without having to buy a whole new bike.
The Yt-Szepter (which is what I ride on road n gravel) combines both - has front suspension, drop bars and wireless axs - best of both..!
Super video guys and great music choices. Hardtails and gravel bikes are difficult to compare. In my tracks in the sud of the france you are very limited with a gravel bike and must stay on large and clean dfci. The singles tracks are too technic and it’s impossible to follow a mountain bike in those tracks. It’s incredibly fun with an Hardtail, and the hardtails of nowadays are so efficient in technical tracks. I choosed the hardtail (exceed slx) and i am very very happy with my choice. MTB are for real off-road rides and gravel for mixing road and clean off-road rides.
i think you have to ride the gravel in the drops. better ankle to pull, less afford to brake. more weight in the front means stability, more confidence and speed trough lowering your weightmass. add a dropper post to your one by drivetrain to clear some space when you need it. endless upgrade. entertaining. but mostly not possible with all the high graded, fancy plastic stuff that has its own benefits.
nice content by the way
Love these vids but i would also love to see you mullet these bikes evenmore. Flat bars on the scott gravel bike for example? Would love to see a video on that!
Hmmmm, I have to admit that I have all 3-Specialized Roubaix for road, Planet X Tempest for winter road and gravel, and a Sonder Signal Ti Hardtail 29’er for anything else. The Tempest will take a 50mm x 700c tyre with mud clearance so it has to be really muddy or knarly for me to use the Signal which has 2.3 and 2.5 tyres on and will take a 3.0…. Something Jimmy said struck me when he said the hardtail just ploughs through anything-that’s how I feel about the Signal-I call it my truck! The other thing is the weight-the Tempest weighs between 10.3 and 11.5kg depending on the tyres I have on, and the Signal weighs 14.3kg so both of your bikes are basically 4kg lighter!! The other side of the weight is of course that the Ti bikes are both basically indestructible. Where we ride which is Cambs-Beds-Norfolk-Northants we have to do a lot of road miles to link up trails and bridleways so a gravel bike works best for us round here.
The two of you make the perfect couple, Oliver Hardy couldn't have done it better. Keep up the good work👍
Hola Francis and new side kick Jimmy, greetings from Benissa Spain. I watched your video with interest and it occurred to me, as it did you, that "something in between" regarding gravel v mtb is needed. Therefore I propose a challenge for the two of you. Could you make an 'in between' gravel/mtb bike out of an old mtb frame? You could source your stock for suitable upgrades/changes (wheels, bars, gearing etc to make it, but let's make it more interesting by putting a reasonable cap on the cost so as to inspire the many people out there that cannot afford a ten grand bike. BTW yes you've definitely cycled past my humble abode.
This I enjoyed watching 😊
I think you guys should do this test again with much faster rolling tyres on the mtb that are closer to the gravel bikes tyres, continental raceking 29 x 2.2 comes to mind.
Otherwise this is more of a test of different tyre types as much as different bike design.
The versatility of a gravel bike just does it for me. I have a nice road bike but went bikepacking with my new gravel for the first time, 750km in 5 days to the mt. Ventoux. There my mates who arrived by car brought me my road wheelset to go on road rides with them.
Bags, wild camping, mud, mountains - street climbs and beautiful roads in the provence, all on one bike in one holiday
Should've used the same tire on both and compare. Also, many xc bike forks lockout for climbing for max power transfer.
If you plan to ride single track trails gotta go with the Mt bike. If you're pretty much riding road and dirt road terrain- gravel bike.
The gravel bike I think was an American thing because we have so many gravel/dirt roads created by the logging and forest service that a road bike that can better handle dirt was needed.
Having just posted a video about whether gravel is the only bike you need anymore, I must admit that a little more ‘give’ in the front end of a gravel bike might be quite welcome.
I’m not sure if it would need to be a full front sus fork, but just something to dampen the front end knocks. 👌🏻
Didn't they release a gravel bike with 70mm travel suspension on the front a while back? I'm sure I remember these guys or maybe gcn doing a video on it.
@@davidmidcalf3470 now you mention it, I do vaguely recall that now.
I think that’s all it would need, or less even, just to stop the biggest jolts on the wrists. I’ve just ordered a suspension seat post for my gravel bike too, so I’m hoping that’ll take good care of my undercarriage too 😂 but only time will tell!
I did Summer Lightning and Barry Knows Best on my gravel bike. It was great but it tempted me to get an XC bike as I knew I could go so much faster. With the MTB, what do you prefer, Francis, hardtail or full sus XC (i.e. 120mm front and back)?
Gravel bikes are off road bikes for covering longer distances. Mountain bikes are off road bikes for covering tougher terrain.
The one I don't get is gravel bikes with suspension (beyond say a flexi stem). If it's rough enough that you need suspension, it's probably too rough for a gravel bike.
Depends on your needs, what you ride, ETC. I have 160/147 travel Ibis ripmo for when I'm looking to play, a cross country bike with 120 mm fork and a 100 fork that I haven't tried yet (2.4 ardents) for general adventure, riding and light trail riding, as well as an older road bike (Cannondale r600). I vastly prefer to ride one of my mountain bikes especially since getting injured. Last year I fractured my c6 vertebra in my neck and now I find drop bars seem to bother me in that positioning. Mind you I don't really use my road bike all that much anyway.
That said, I've only ever gone down a trail once on a gravel bike was not a fan :)
Personally I think it depends on whether you like drop or flat handlebared bikes, hybrids are the skinny unpopular brother of the mountain bike especially back in the 90's, if they were called Gravel bikes and marketed so, would they be more popular especially as the 700c wheels are still very much a thing.
Older geometry mountain bike (2010ish) hardtail set up as a gravel bike. Did that suspension helps with my reconstructed shoulders but fast like a gravel bike.
Certainly for me my Gravel rides are mixed terrain ie bit of woods some road and sometimes some gravel, the MTB tends to be more one type, mainly as it’s a fair bit slower on road or even smooth packed gravel trails.
I run ardent race 2.3's on my ti hard tail...rips on everything from gravel to expert single track. For me it's the perfect do it all non-road bike.
i have both, and honestly my hardtail with a pair of spingrip on the bar beats the gravel everywhere (with the same tires event with a suspension (locked on road))
FYI big knobs on tires do not increase rolling resistance. In fact, it even lowers it (think of a knobby tire as a slick tire with some bits missing). It's the width and weight of the tire and wheel that makes the difference.
knobs definitely do add resistance - the gap created by those cuts creates a sort of non-smooth circle to repeatedly push over. if we imagine a smooth circle rolling turning into an octagon, or even a square, we would intuit that chunk-chunk-chunk effort as you push the shape off the virtual flat area created by having multiple contact points instead of just one perfectly centered one (like a 120 psi road slick).
plus, because they're softer, your watts are going into deformation instead of stiffly efficient forward motion
@@BrennanLetkeman there are quite new studies debunking this myth. "Cuts" of contact patch created by knobs in fact decrease rolling resistance. Empty space between the knobs does not add additional resistance. Road slicks work great for road cycling because a wide, unified contact patch creates better stability on the flat, hard tarmac and reduces power losses when accelerating (knobs bends). So yeah, an extra knobby tire with the same pressure and the same width as a slick tire will have lower rolling resistance. If you don't believe me then find some gearhead and ask him how gas mileage on his car changes when switching from average tires to slicks or semi-slicks. In cars we're dealing with much greater powers and obvious indicator of gas mileage, hence the difference is more visible
Nice skills hitting that single track on the gravel bike! Where are your dropper posts?
I’ve got a gravel bike with flat bars. It rips, it’s as fast as any gravel bike but corners and handles like it’s on rails. The flat bar give you so much more confidence and control.
I tend to use the drops when descending, I have much better control and can shift my weight easier.
Gravel bikes are more fun, but require skill. Also take more focus and are more tiring going down, and on a rough multiday adventure I had elbow discomfort.
I have a 29er hardtail and a road bike. I used to have a gravel bike also, but I sold it. I was only 2 minutes faster on my daily commute on the gravel bike compared to the hardtail, and the hardtail is more fun, so I sold the gravel bike.
My hardtail pretty much rides like a hybrid bike with the 1x12 shimano XT setup, remote lock of the fork and 2.1 tyres. Great bike
how long was your commute overall? I'm killing myself on whether to get a gravel or mtb for my new bike. I have trails 10-30 minutes away from me (on bike). Have ridden MTB most of my life, but my mtb is 23 years old so not too different from a gravel bike in terms of thin (flat) handlebar, smaller wheels. I threw some cheap front suspension on it years ago. I'm trying to decide between an xc flattail like the trek x-caliber or procaliber, or an equivalent gravel like the trek checkpoint.
If I go with the MTB I'm going to opt for slimmer wheels, probably ~50-55cm / 2 to 2.3nch range, get some bar clips for hand positions, maybe slim the bar a little.
@@osafoca 26km each way, 52km in total
I usually use the drops instead of the tops when riding my gravel bike offroad because of the better hand grip, stability and brake leverage. But i've got a fairly tall stack and wide bars with shallow flared drops (Ritchey Venturemax XL 52cm). I'd imagine that a "racier" setup with low stack and narrow road bike bars with lots of drop would be sketchy to ride offroad in the drops because your weight would be so far forwards.
Agreein the drops of a wide flared dropbar for better control.. that's the way to ride trails on a gravelbike 👍🏼
I ride trails with 380 bars, no flare just fine
Who else remembers from way back when John Tomac raced with drop bars on his mountain bike? He was also racing the road with 7-11/Motorola and wanted to replicate his road position.
What a boss! "Gravel" goes way back 🤯🤯
Well, your comparison of something else to something else was really something else!
Pls compare your matching gravel bikes, one w/ 650B vs. one w/ 700C
2:45 Mtb tip - use the fork lockout when chlimbing. Otherwise casual and fun video, pleasure to watch.
Very well explained video
With all the bike types in the market today, everybody can ride their own ride. Good comparison. But kind of comparing apples and oranges.
I got a gravel bike 3 years ago because I was tired of riding with cars. I have no interest in MTB. And living in Oregon (US) there are thousands of miles of gravel roads. (There are plenty of single track for the MTB crowd, like the Timber trail)
One thing I notice is that most roadies set their gravel bikes up like a road bike. Drop bar gravel bikes should have a more relaxed position with the the handlebar height almost level with the seat. Gives better control on the downhill. Better balance for bikepacking.
Would like to see a comparison of 2 gravel bikes. One with traditional front suspension and one with a Wren inverted front suspension.
Cheers
Ive got a locking suspension “hybrid” bike. But im unsure what makes it a hybrid. I did a tough 25 mile mountain trail with 8k ft total elevation gain with it just two days ago.
I love the bike. Its a giant roam 2 bike w/ hydraulic disk 1X American set up.
My only complaint was the tires. 42 across but not knobby made me lose traction quite a few times and i wiped out on a downhill cuz of it.
My question is how do y’all fee about locking forks on “hybrid bikes” i only get 62 m of travel on the fork but i can adjust the air pressure for tighter control.
Always in the drop position with the gravelbike, as I feel you have a lot more control. Then naturally your arms become more of a suspension.
But what I do find is that always slower on the downhills than the MTB's, but faster on the uphills.
Finally got to see Tony!!!
Watching this very late. You insisted a lot on tyre volume difference but actually your MTB had quite aggressive treads. You would have had a much smaller difference uphill with fast file tread like MTB tyres such as the Schwalbe Thunderburt, Continental Speed and Race King, etc, while keeping same volume.
Sold my gravel bike whei I noticed I was always ending up on trails that were was to tech for the gravel bike and should of been on my MTB or rides that I would of been fine on my road bike with wider tires. So now I'm down to 2 bike with different tires ect to set them up depending on what I'm doing
Great video guys, I built a hardtail gravel bike with Rock Shock fork with lock-out option. Increased versatility and covers all types of terrain. Thanks
I have a gravel bike and a fatbike I ride year around in center Canada. Definitely my favorite two type of bikes to own.
Sticking a 24 degree flared bar on the gravel bike and riding it in the drops would’ve transformed the way it feels hitting that singletrack… It’s so much more confidence inspiring.
Hey guys, how about putting the same exact tires (incl. same size) on the hardtail and the gravel? It'd be interesting to see how they compare in a variety of conditions: gravel, pavement, trails, climbs, etc. Would be interested in your take on the differences. Thanks and keep up the great content!
This is a comparison that I would like to see. But noone does that (or did that on YT, at least I could not find that comparison) because then it would be obvious that gravel is with a bit of exaggeration, a 90s MTB. And this is not exactly what manufacturers want. They want to sell a second bike to roadies.
I raced XC on 26" MTBs from the end of 90s, switched to XC on 29" some 5 years back. If I am supposed to race on track with some fast segments, I equip skinnier tires, pump them up, and put on 34t or even 36t chainring. Just as fast as gravel bike, but I am still able to send it down rockgardens and nasty forest downhills, terrain that is included in every XC race. I really can not recall an offroad race track here, where gravel would be better. Except for flat tracks (there are many tho) :D
Maybe gravel makes sense in Spain or UK, but here in Czechia, Sloakia or Austria, it just does not make sense. If you don't want to ride on road here, you have to deal with terrain for XC bike 95% of the time.
Gravel bike just a more comfortable road bike that can do some off road trails I use to in winter time stick road tyres on the mountain bike and that was fine, I've never been fast so position wasn't a problem.
Bought a gravel bike, which is my only bike now. I don’t ride that much technical off-roads. Stock tires were 35mm, then I bought a second set of wheels with 28mm slick tires. My gravel bike can turn into a road bike! I’m not into racing so it works for me. 😃
Idea, if you are interested and if you have time.
Compare the Trek Procaliber 9.5 vs the Griant xtc advanced 3 29er.
Would be very interesting, when you would give the Hybrid Bar from Beast Components a shot on a Gravel Bike and how the hard tail compares to it.
I think the big reason gravel bikes are popular is because companies aren't making touring bikes anymore.
My road bike is a Cannondale SuperSix, which while a very fun and enjoyable bike to ride, has been built with speed as it's priority. It's optimized for best performance at around 20mph and faster. It's a bit too stiff to be comfortable over long distances, it's a bit too aggressive in position which leads to the same issue of comfort. It's only got the capacity for carrying 2 bottle cages, the rest of the frame left as smooth as possible for aerodynamics. It's built to go fast, comfort and carrying capacity comes at the expense.
When I go touring I'm not riding at 20 mph, I'm probably averaging more like 12. I don't care about going fast, I'm not trying to win a race, I'm too busy enjoying the atmosphere, taking in the sights and sounds and smells and enjoying my holiday. In that context, much better to have 40mm tyres not 25s, much better to have that relaxed geometry and longer wheelbase. Much better to fit pannier racks or frame bags and carry all the food, clothes, spare parts, etc I will need.
Which, speaking of, might make for a good comparison. An old school touring bike like a Dawes Galaxy or something, up against a modern gravel bike. I wonder just how close or not they are in terms of comfort
I have both but I cant just get over modern MTB geometry. I understand its better for technical single trail, but I dont do that. Pedalling is really like dancing as you mentioned in the video, its a chore.